FEMALE clubbers were refused entry into Havana nightclub on Saturday night for being too fat.
Police were called to calm the situation outside the Halkett Street club as bouncers and manager Martin Sayers allegedly told women to ‘go away and lose some weight’.
Over 20 women are expected to give statements to the police today and a Facebook page, labelled Havana Club Jersey Discrimination and using an image from US cartoon Family Guy, has already attracted over 100 supporters calling for Islanders to boycott the club.
Georgina Mason was one of the ladies refused entry. The 23-year-old, who works for Lloyds TSB, had been enjoying a night out with friends when it turned sour.
‘About five or six or us got to Havana at about 11.30 pm and the bouncers said we were not allowed in because we were too big. I told them not to be ridiculous and asked to speak to the manager,’ she said.
‘When the manager came out he would not look at me directly but said that they had received too many complaints about fat people and he told me: “Go and lose some weight before you can come in – fat people are bad for business.”
Article posted on 28th July, 2008 - 3.00pm
199 Article Comments
Surely fat people drink more? I think by banning the ‘largest’ consumers, the manager has missed a trick there
At least getting refused gave them the opportunity of getting first in line in the pie shop on the way home, they do say that every cloud has a silver lining……
Why would someone go to the JEP and report this anyway? Is this really the top story in the Island?
I was one of the Ladies refused entry on Saturday night,my concern is for younger girls this will have a lasting effect on them.It’s discrimination can you imagine “Your not allowed in because your Black/Polish/Gay”.
Karen Hammond
The management at Havana should listen to their own music. Like Queens ‘Fat Bottom Girls’
If this is the way a club treats people then they deserve to be closed down. The only way to get the Manager sacked is to not use the club over the next few weeks and see the owners out of pocket!
The Havana needs revamping and so do the staff.
Jimmy,
Shallow comments
Discrimination of any kind should not be tolerated and the people concerned should be ashamed of themselves.
And why shouldnt it be reported
I thought clubs can refuse entry to whoever they want???
Yes it might be unfair that they are refusing people club entrance based on their appearance but what they are doing is legal.
The club wont be boycotted, instead more people will go there looking for thin people! ;p
So, they have special nights in clubs for Polish, Portuguese, students etc. Why not have a ‘Fatty Night’
I think I may be onto something here. Not sure if there’s a club with a reinforced floor though, any ideas?
I agree it isn’t fair and it is very insulting but there is a disturbing increase in obesity and, harsh as it is, this may be just the shock these people need to improve their health.
Having said that, each to their own and people are who they are…we shouldn’t discriminate just because they are attractive to the staff. The bouncers and manger aren’t exactly oil paintings themselves!
I am somewhat overweight (size 18) and not only was I allowed into the club, I had quite a few lads chasing after me and managed to “catch one” so to speak.
I guess that justified my earlier complaint that they were letting too many overweight people in and the competition among us to catch a bloke was overwheleming.
Anyway here’s hoping Steve phones me tonight
Katie has a very good point - the right of admission is reserved by the Management of any club, and for any reason. Next we’ll see the front page of the JEP stating (shock horror) that there is prejudice against chav trainer wearers because they can’t get in to Liquid.
I can’t help thinking that the ladies in question antagonised the Manager in some way and I would like to hear what the Manager of Havana has to say in his defence. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were being unnecessarily rowdy or drunken and Mr Sayers made his comment as an angry “last resort”.
Nevertheless, I am inclined to agree with Mr Sayers’ sentiment. Whenever I go clubbing I like to look at fit girls in short skirts on the dance floor, not fat chicks wobbling around every where.
“Why not have a ‘Fatty Night’”
Great idea, could just see them all in
line dancing mode singing
“its raining men”
It’s about time people started discriminating against fat people! Why should we as a society look down on people who are heroin addicts or alcoholics but then treat those who eat their way into hospital as respectable citizens? They should be forced into rehab like the rest!
Haha best story ive read in ages! It makes me want to visit the island and go to this club and shake the managers hand!
superb!
well theres a club in dundee called Fattys! why not have fat night there!
If the capacity of a club is 300 people and you have 300 fat people in that club, there is no way people could breathe. It would be a fire hazard and a health and safety hazard.
I don’t see any problems with telling people they are fat. If it encourages them to lose weight and improve their health, it can only be a positive thing.
And as Katie said, clubs can refuse entry to anyone they want so long as it is not done on grounds of sex, race or disability.
Jimmy,
Well put, quite simply discrimination is a point of view. I personally think it is racist how events can be ‘portuguese or polish’. In which case, why not have a ‘Fatty night’? Or a Jersey night? It is totally disgusting how managers are permitted to advertise certain events to a target audience, by race, appearance, weight. Mate, seriously.
You’re right Katie, that’s why they put ROAR (refusal of admission reserved) on tickets and posters for bars and clubs, they can barr/ refuse you for any reason they like.
I was in on Sat night and it was really quiet so I don’t understand turning away custom on a night like that.
It’ll be a shame if they start barring fat people, as it’s the nearest club to Macdonalds!
It is shocking that this is on the front of the first JEP of the week!! It is minor news and not everyone is going to feel strongly about it. Its quite embarrassing if you ask me!
I can understand why you would be offended but this is being taken too far!
I wouldn’t be surprised if “Jimmy” is one of the staff at the Havana Club!
Jersey has always been a very backwards place with regards to door policies at licensed premises.
Certainly a few years a go, any immigrant Portuguese workers would have found it impossible to get in to most local venues. Few ever bothered trying. I don’t know if this is still the case.
I think it is disgusting that these women were refused entry because of their size. It may not be a top story for Jersey but it just goes to show you what sort of society we are here in Jersey.
This is not an issue of who should and shouldnt be allowed in the club or even why the shouldnt be that just an excuse for these women to kick off a bit. The owner surely reserves the right to deny anyone for any reason its his club and business! The issue is the comments made by Martin he shouldnt have mentioned anything to do with their apperance.
Jimmy
Your comments are disgusting I heard what was said to these ladies by the manager and cannot believe what happened on saturday night, your attitude is dated bias inhumane and lacks moral empathy shame on you!!
Im fat. Im never going there again.
Obesity is a modern problem that needs to be addressed. Perhaps insults and discrimination can be an effective method that will encourage overweight people to eat less and exercise more.
What a disgrace ! Martin Sayers ought to be thoroughly ashamed of himself. What gives him the right to refuse entry just because somebody is overweight ? What next Mr Sayers? Banning somebody for being coloured ? Being Lesbian or Homosexual ? I do not think he should be running a nightclub with the attitude he has got. I would not be surprised if the UK press get interested in this story !
Personally I think larger ladies are beautiful, but that’s just my humble opinion. I certainly won’t be going to the Havana again, it’s rubbish anyway. As mentioned, if they had been turned away for looking ‘too Portuguese’ or ‘too short’ or ‘too ugly’ then I expect the girls would now be getting legal advice on how much they could expect to receive in damages.
Jimmy - got any more funny hahaha comments along the lines of reinforced floors, first to the pie shop etc etc? That’s really funny and mature of you to write that, thanks for sharing it with everyone.
The most surprising thing about this incident is that the nightclub in question was Havana. Hardly the pickiest of places when it comes to clientel normally!
This is no different to what goes on in many nightclubs in the UK other than, instead of being subtly refused entrance because of looks, weight, etc with a simple “not tonight folks” - “members only tonight” - “you’ve had too much to drink”, the bouncer has been rather frank and honest.
And why does it set a bad example for young people? Are we not meant to be promoting healthy eating and living? Surely by advertising the fact that there are less opportunities for the overweight we will see a drop in future obesity issues such as heart disease.
At the end of the day, it’s their party and they’ll invite who they want to.
I think this guy from Havana is a bigot when he should look in the mirror himself. Sorry to say, it is disgusting how people can be turned away because of the way they look, if the world was made this way, no one would get anything in the world. The manager/owner [whoever] should be done for discrimination as this is exaclty the same as saying no to gay people, or of a certain origin. I will certainly not be going there any time soon. Not until they have sorted out the staff. Just one more question, Why didnt the bouncers question the owner when being requested to refuse entry. Its not just the owners, its the bouncers as well.
Oh my good god, I can’t actually believe this!
Katie, yes, people can be refused into an establishment, but it’s normally based on behaviour, or possibly even dress, but SIZE?! That’s a whole section of the population.
I hope the manager of the club loses his job, or goes out of business. Havana is a dive anyway, who would honestly want to go there?
I cant believe the manager is being so horrible. how dare he judge someone on there size, if he had said ” no u cant come in because you are black” he would have been put in jail. What right does he have to tell someone to lose weight?
It is a sad reflection on Jersey society that people can be discriminated against based on the way that they look- this is not acceptable for any reason, be it weight, nationality or colour. We are all individuals and have a right to lead our lives as we see fit.
I have only been to the Havana club twice and to be honest, have found it to be full of lecherous old men. I probably would not have gone back there anyway, now I definitely won’t be bothering.
I live in America. While part of me would appreciate it if our bars and clubs could take a similar stance toward fat girls, it is simply impractical. We simply don’t have roving packs of fat women which are distinct from the other ladies. Instead, fat girls somehow integrate themselves into groups of attractive, slender women. So, you might get a ratio of 1/5 fat girls in any given group. If you try to turn away the fat girls, you end up losing the attractive ones as well. Thus, it would be quixotic to try to implement a similar policy here.
Also, it would be a shame to turn away every single fat girl, because sometimes guys are just into that.
What I would do if I had a club, is quickly calculate the average BMI of every group of women, and only allow in the groups who display an acceptable average degree of fitness. That way, you have a little something for everyone within the club.
What does this story tell you about Jersey. How can onyone be banned from a place like Havana’s because they are ‘fat’. What does fat mean? body index, waist size, body mass or what, how does the manager who recieved complaints about ‘fat’ people decide who is fat and who is not. What complaints have been made and how are these likely to affect the clubs popularity and the bottom line its profit. This is what it is all about, if havin more ‘fat’ people at the club increased its profits then they would offering them discounts to go in. Havana’s reputation like its namesake has gone up in smoke. I wont be going anymore.
It is the clubs decision who can come in. If they think they will make more money without obese people then that is upto them.
Whilst it is still discrimination it is different than refusing entry on the grounds of race/nationality etc.
The majority of obese people do not have a medical problem, they just consume more calories than they expend. They have made a choice not to be healthy.
This is where men go to meet Big Women.
They are good for business. You have to drink loads so they look nicer. This is the voice of experience speaking.
Let me know where you all go after the boycot !
I think it will not help Havanas profits.
Martin ,” don`t bite the hand that feeds you !”
I love Jersey I lived and worked here for ten years. I even have a small pension from jersey. Anyhow I recently enquired about a job in the Youth Service but the profession is not ‘essential’ if I was a graduate in Social Work I could come over without any prior or recent recidency! Discrimination comes to mind. The news tonight re this article says it all to me. Jersey has a very long way to go towards equality of opportunity for all!I would love to help but my qualifications and excperience are not valid
I had my say but it was discriminated against and therefore not accepted! This is unbelievable, I posted my contact details too. Very frust6rating
Not much happened in Jersey then this weekend???????
Gay, Polish, blacks, Portuguese … they are all either born that way or cannot change. Fat people aren’t born that way and they can do something about it. Fat/clinically obese people are not attractive and bad for business image - fact. Basically, for all those fat people the answer is called portion control and exercise. Drinking alcohol (average drink contains over 100 calories) is only going to make you fatter, so they were doing you a favour. What about disabled people, how many places are disabled friendly, access, staff and customer wise? What next - Fat rights?!
I believe all clubs reserve the right to refuse entry to anyone.
It is a bit harsh to send people away for being fat but there could also be a number of other reasons like if you look like you’re going to cause trouble.
It’s not discrimination. discrimination is discernment of unchangeable differences such as being black or polish but fat people can lose weight unless they have a medical problem which makes them fat, in which case they shouldn’t go out to nightclubs drinking.
So i agree with Katie nothing should happen to the club
Do we definately know that these girls/ladies were not being rowdy, drunken & mouthy before this happened? I am not saying it makes it anymore acceptable but if they had been giving the doorstaff hassle then maybe you could understand one of them losing their cool & retaliating.
First of all, in response to Mark’s comment, without being rude it seems that you may not go out very often.
Most people that do go out even on rare occasions would have at one time or another enjoyed an evening at the Havana Club, and due to the managers’ social interactivity with his clientele would have become aware that the manager and owner are the same person.
I know the manager very well, and running a night club to please everyone is a difficult job.
That and trying to avoid any conflict that may happen on the premises takes diligence, dedication, skill and observation.
It is unfortunate that this incident has occurred and since I was not there at the time I admit that I am not qualified to criticize either way.
I can only presume that were previous incidents involving people that may have vaguely fit the description of the unfortunate girls that turned up that created the reason to defend the club against other such disturbances.
At the end of the day, no pun intended, it is important to please most of the people, and in order to do this the pleasure of a few may have to be sacrificed, and unfortunately it seems that these girls were innocent.
I do not condone the comments made after entry was refused by the manager, but by that time, some others words may have been directed to him, I can only guess.
I have helped the manager on occasions and witnessed very negative responses and rude behaviour by those who have been refused entry.
So, if in the first instance they were refused entry, and the manager reserves the right to refuse entry, why did the girls stay there? They could have gone on to some other venue and continued to enjoy their night. Has it been mentioned how long the girls remained arguing outside? Was there any point? Any further arguments would only have confirmed that the decision made by the management was correct.
I would like to hear any comments about the incident by unbiased witnesses in order to see the whole picture.
Wow! I love this place. I can see this place be the most popular club in the area.
Fatties Not Allowed! Awesome!
“my concern is for younger girls this will have a lasting effect on them.”
So you want them to stay fat and later become diabetics or die from a heart attack or the million other health problems that fat people have? Anything that encourages younger people to stay at a healthy weight is a GOOD THING. I don’t know why you can’t comprehend that being fat is not healthy for anyone, it is absolutely NOT ok to make “young girls” believe that it’s ok to be fat. It is not good for them! No idea why some idiots can’t get that through their thick skulls. So many idiots trying to be politically correct, that they don’t even realize how ridiculous some of the things they support are.
This is nothing like discrimination based on race because you cannot change your race, whereas you can change your weight. Many nightclubs stay in business by maintaining a certain atmosphere that caters to a discerning group of customers. In order to do this they are in the habit of turning people away for not being dressed well, being too drunk, being unkempt, and yes, being fat. I don’t know why you would want to force your way in and be the six that don’t fit in with the rest of the crows. You won’t have a good time if everyone else is steering clear of you, and there’s plenty of other places where people are happy to drink and meet up with fat women.
I clearly agree that nobody should go there for a month.
That’s what racists diserve.
I was once not allowed to go in because I’ve cutted my hair to short. So insted I spent my money in La Cala…hehe….what a night
How is this discrimination? People who are overweight choose to be, this is in no way comparible to race, sex or even age. These are traits that are we are given at birth, people are not born fat. If you are not comfortable being fat then lose weight!
This is an absolute disgrace. I go to Havanna’s because I feel comfortable in there. Now this has happened where am I supposed to go? The girls in places like Liquid and La Cala are too gorgeous so I’m made to feel ugly. And least in Havana’s I feel like I’m around people I belong with, people who can recognise my inner beauty.
I’m very upset by this situation. Please let me back in, I miss it so much. I don’t want to stay single forever
Obviously some of the comments on here are designed to be controversial and insulting!
Whether you are fat or thin is not the issue, the point is that it is time for Jersey to get up to date with its discrimination laws and policies.
I hope people do boycot the club as there are much better places to enjoy a night out anyway.
Jersey in the headlines again for all the wrong reasons. Goodbye Havana Club. (never went there anyhow!)
I can not beleive that some people like Jimmy to can make such shallow comments!! just proves what type of person you are if you think that the management of Havana club is correct to turn people away if they are a certain size!! Although it is under the managements discretion to turn people away for whatever reason you can not have one rule for one sex and not the other!!
One of my friends was turned away from there saturday night and i think it is disgraceful. How would you feel if you were turned away from somewhere for being to thin, or too tall or too short?
I dont care who or what you look like everyone is human and have feelings. It is discrimination whether you like it or not and it CAN NOT be tolerated
I don’t see what all the fuss is. Why is this even news worthy? There are far too many fat people about these days and something needs to be done about it. It’s not ok to be fat, it’s unhealthy, selfish and costs the NHS billions.
“It’s discrimination can you imagine ‘Your not allowed in because your Black/Polish/Gay’.”
No offense, but how is that the same thing? Most fat people are fat by choice, it’s not really comparable to race. Fat people shouldn’t be treated as sub-human, but it also doesn’t seem like people should be encouraged to be fat. It’s not really natural or healthy for the human body.
Personally i think the whole thing is ridiculas, you would never get away with this behaviour in the UK, only in Jersey would this ever happen!!…. Typical really of this Island!!
The only work i have to describe this whole situation is Discrimination, and there is no excuse for that!!
They should never have mentioned the reason. Door staff do not have to explain why?
But lets get to the problem Women in the Uk are becoming more like American women. Too fat and too loud. Stop complaining and get on a diet, stop drinking so much and having a fag hanging out of your mouth like tramps.
Ok, so fat people throw a hissy-fit because they can’t get into a club?
What’s wrong with you? Why should you care? Just go find another club, or another place to go hang-out at and save some cash.
Secondly, it doesn’t take much effort to lose some weight. I used to be a fat guy myself. It takes EFFORT to lose weight. Are you afraid of putting forth EFFORT to look, feel, and appeal more to member of whatever sex you desire? Come on.
Or are you just going to sit there and cry because some random club-owner called you ‘fat’? If you haven’t really noticed, you don’t own the club, and you have no say in who they allow or disallow into their club. While the comment was a little harsh, he has every right to deny whoever he pleases access.
Perhaps its a capacity issue.
If the club can only hold 100 people, letting in 10 really fat (and lets face it, they probably had to be huge to be refused entry) girls would take up 20% of the capacity.
The Facebook group now has 700 members so quite strong opinions on this one! Keep up the good work Helen!
I’m from Jersey and fat girls are great!
Having been a club owner and manager we always reserved the right to refuse admission with or without reason but would not have been as insensitive to give the reason as being too fat.
“I was one of the Ladies refused entry on Saturday night,my concern is for younger girls this will have a lasting effect on them.It’s discrimination can you imagine “Your not allowed in because your Black/Polish/Gay”.”
These comments just serve to highlight the ignorance, self-obessesion of some fat people and the ever-present human ability to refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions.
Being over-weight is a CHOICE. You chose not to understand what you are and how you need to eat (that’s a nomadic omnivore btw, not a couch McDonaldovore), or you chose to not care about the consequences of your self-proclaimed right to over-indulgence.
You cannot be discriminated over something you CHOOSE. If you want to get in, start burning the calories you consumed, as per the nomad is DESIGNED.
I want to visit this club now and become a member. Refusing fat people wouldn’t be bad for business. It will be superb for business!
There has always been door policies at clubs. At least the bouncers were being honest about the reasons, rather than making up an excuse. Clubs want to keep an appropriate client base - fat people aren’t really appropriate.
He had every right to refuse them entry if it was based on excessive size.. just like you can refuse someone entry based on their shirt colour. Obesity and shirt colour are similar because they are choices. You can choose to eat yourself overweight or wear a blue shirt.
You can’t choose what race or colour you are so they are in a different category.
jog on …
Bit of a fuss about nothing if you ask me.
I don’t see it as discrimination as much as a health and safety issue. I would be genuinely concerned about having obese people in a confined environment for the following reason:
Fire hazard
Heart attack risk
General aesthetics
Therefore I applaud the decision taken.
Oh and I can’t help but notice a lot of you Jersey types have terrible spelling and grammar.
So fat and lazy. Shame.
So you make a controversial decision, you get front page coverage and send a message saying that you only let fit girls in your club….utter marketing genius.
I’m pretty massive and have been turned away from several venues in the past.
You eats your cake and takes your chances is how I see it.
It’s a safety issue for the benefit of the whole of Jersey. Put too many chubbers in one place and the island will tilt, fill with water and sink. What then eh? You’ll all have to go and live in France.
I didn’t get where I am today by eating too many pies and being refused entrance to nightclubs.
Fewer pies.
More exercise.
I think all clubs should refuse fat people! It will give them an insentive to lose weight.
I’m gana go to Havana more often now I know they only exept skinny people.
Havana should win a fair play award.
This is an embarassment to the Island, it really is.
Why not just accept it and move on to another club? Don’t you feel ashamed for being on tv for the sole reason that you’re obese?
Why not go the whole distance and go on Jeremy Kyle whilst you’re at it.
If anything it’s given me the biggest laugh for ages. Cheers
I’m a bit fat. I put on 3 stone when I went to uni. I don’t like it, so I’m trying to be healthy and not live a sedentary lifestyle. If something bothers you that much to get all wound up about it, then it bothers you enough to do something about it!
People mention “bad example for the young’uns.” I think we can all agree that starving yourself half to death is a bad thing, but people hardly ever say that being too overweight is not doing your heart any favours.
Having to read some comments here made me sick to the stomach. I’m a size 12/14 and already feel inadequate. Most THIN people I know eat the same (or even more) than fat people, who are constantly suffering prejudice and trying to diet. Unfortunately, most fat people WILL NOT lose weight unless they subsist in 300 calories a day. Ask ANY naturally people if they would be willing to do it, and they would laugh at your face.
There. If THIN people had to make any sacrifice to be thin, they probably wouldn’t. They are “blessed” because their body type fits today’s beauty standards, and from their privileged spot they look down to the fat people below (trying to figure out if it’s better to be thin and starved or fat and happy) and laugh. Good on ya, folks!
Any owner has the right to refuse entry, that’s for sure. As anyone has to right to be evil and prejudiced, too. No one can do anything about it but feel sorry for the ones who let their prejudice be bigger than their compassion. The manager mistake was to SPEAK OUT, and for this he MUST be punished, because otherwise anyone will feel entitled to offend and hurt other people “because they’re allowed to”.
No, they are NOT. Where I come from, you can get arrested for being rascist. It’s time people realized than being obese is a fact of life, cannot be magically changed (try to lose 10 stone before saying it’s easy) and even though it doesn’t have to be admired, has to be ACCEPTED.
Try as I might I cannot see what all the fuss is about.
The fat people I know tend to feel grateful when they are allowed among normal people.
The ones in this story don’t appear to feel such things- almost believeing that they are entitled to live among everyone and take an excessive share of things.
I’d be absolutely outraged if I were a Pole and had an overeater comparing herself to me.
Utterly racist implying Poles and Portuguese are as bad as fatties.
My friend Ash Ford used to hang at this joint alot because the women were so fine and plump. I doubt he’ll be going again if this kind of thing is happening. It’s terrible.
I agree with the manager of the club. Ultimately it’s his club, he can do what he wants.
Personally I also find fat people repulsive, especially when they are glammed up for a night out of sweating on the dance floor, I actively choose clubs and bars that have slimmer people in to avoid these things.
It’s also a better atmosphere generally, fat girls also cry a lot towards closing time.
to surmise- Smoking is antisocial, so is obesity.
As for Carrera comments, it’s always worth remember that being fat doesn’t necessarily equates to being unhealthy. Some thin people have worst eating habits than fat people, and this “bigger risk of heart attack” is a myth that has been disproved many times.
But it’s a cliché, and so many people won’t see beyond them. To me, being prejudiced and shallow is way more crippling than being illiterate. But maybe that’s just me.
As for “general aesthetics”, beauty is a relative term. What you perceive as beautiful may not be the rule. I bet some men that are here claiming for “beautiful, fit ladies on the dance floor” would be dismissed by any hot chick on the grounds that they’re not beautiful men (thin people can be ugly, you know).
I wonder how these men would feel if the ladies (fat or thin) were discussing the lack of RICH guys in Havana Club, or wondering if they should have entry denied on the basis of not owning a Ferrari 250gto or a 5 figure income. Because if they feel entitled to have only fit ladies to chose from, ladies may as well feel entitled to a ccept only wealthy guys.
They were not allowed into a night club, what is the big problem. It must be a very slow news week on the Island. What happend with the old Nazi Bunker that was found a while back now that’s what I call news
I have never seen more comments about any previous article, if this is what is important, let me out of the human race!!!
I think these people should take a good long look at themselves. You cannot tell me they enjoy being obese and all the delights that come with it?
I’ve heard all the excuses known to man but it basically boils down to having a terrible diet and being lazy.
Should have just waddled home with what little dignity you had left.
I am outraged, as a resident of Jersey and a dear friend of one of the women involved on saturday this has upset all of us. We used to enjoy the Havana club, I even DJ’ed there a few times last year, but now my custom is not welcome. They should be ashamed.
fair one!
There’s a club for fat people. Maybe if more fat people went to that club they could stop getting upset for their own disregard for their health. Remember no one wants to stare at your fat good for nothing worthless blob of what you call a body. Lose weight of kill yourself. Or at least don’t go outside in public, its disgusting.
“This is nothing like discrimination based on race because you cannot change your race, whereas you can change your weight.”
Haha, I am glad they can’t! Because to fit in your “perfect little world” probably everybody would have to become thin, caucasian, tall and european.
“Gay, Polish, blacks, Portuguese … they are all either born that way or cannot change.”
Am I the only one who sees the prejudice in this comment? “born that way”, “cannot change”. They don’t *have* to change a thing about themselves just to please anyone, or because the media says they don’t fit. There should be space for EVERYBODY in this world, but reading these comments made me realize what a horrible place Jersey has became. No wonder the immigrants NEVER feel really welcome, here. Maybe they should all go and leave the dirty, low paid jobs for the “beautiful blonde Jersey beans” to do.
Not accepting people because they are different than you… That’s how Nazism started. I bet some polish people, whose ancestors paid a heavy price for not “fitting in”, are here bashing fat people. SHAME ON YOU, loves.
I don’t think Havana has the luxury of not allowing certain people in (such as those with Jeans etc) when it’s going to struggle in the current economic climate and the fact there are far more pleasent clubs to visit on the Island.
I don’t think this is discrimination. Discrimination is directed towards people who can’t help what they are, they are born that way.
Therefore it wasn’t discrimination when smokers were’t allowed to smoke in clubs because smoking is a lifestyle choice, if you don’t like it stop smoking. Being fat is also a lifestyle choice, if you don’t like it stop eating and try some exercise.
Admitedly fat people don’t harm anyone else physically but financially they have a massive effect by being a huge drain on the NHS.
The Havana Club is breaking the law. They are not arbitrarily, legally entitled to refuse entry to anyone wishing to enter their premises.
The Jersey Law 21 / 1974
Jersey Consolidation Licensing (Jersey) Law 1974
Article 17 states:
Right to exclude persons from licensed premises
(1) The holder of a licence, or his servant, may, without giving any reason therefor, refuse to admit to, and may expel from, the licensed premises any person who is drunken, violent, quarrelsome or disorderly, or any person whose presence on the premises would subject the holder of the licence to a penalty under this Law.
(2) Any police officer shall, at the request of the holder of a licence, or his servant or agent, help to expel from the licensed premises any person liable to be expelled from them under this Article, and may use such force as may be required for the purpose.
(3) If any person, on being requested in pursuance of this Article by the holder of a licence or his servant or agent, or any police officer, to quit the licensed premises, refuses or fails to do so, he shall be liable to a fine not exceeding [two hundred pounds.]25
NB - Under 18s would come under section (1) so licencees have a legal right to exclude them.
So unless overweight people are drunk, disorderly,causing a disturbance, or are excluded by a court order from entering licensed premises licencees or their employees are not legally allowed to refuse them entry.
Maybe one of our States Members would like to enforce this in the public interest please or is this going to be another instance of “so few people are affected it’s not worth the effort”?
Oh my god! That is disgraceful!
If anything this highlights what type of people Havanna attracts! Ignorant, Arrogant and totally insensitive.
Go to the Royal Yacht and socialise there!
When the club would have been built it would have had to abide by certain planning laws regarding fire safety and sizes of certain entrances/exits. As time has moved on this has become a B.C.O. (building control office) issue as regulations regardng fire, disabled access etc. have been updated as with human trends and safety issues.
The fact that today the number of people diagnosed as being obease has never been higher, modern building have to abide by certain rules and regulations (part M) these include disabled access doors, corridors and fire escapes, wide enough to give access to someone wheelchair bound, or even over sized.
As Havana is an older club, compare its escapes to somewhere like Liquid & Envy, that has a number of very large staircases equipt to handle a rush of people wanting to escape at any one time. Havana, on the other hand doesn’t, but as it was built before these regulations were manditory, is not an issue, but only restricts its overall capacity.
If there was an immediate evacuation of the club in question, i personally would not feel overely confortable following someone who is either taking up more room than necessary, or by someone who cannot handle the speed at which most of the other clubbers would be assending the stairs.
I understand that this is disturbing issue to those who got refused from entry, and i can understand how you must be feeling right now. but if letting you in just to keep the peace instead of thinking about the wellfair of all other paitrons, (including yourselves), then i believe that the Bouncers/Management had a right to refuse entry on the grounds that the premises is not catered to hold a larger number of obease people, than would have been expected when the club was originally granted a licence and capacity rating from the fire officer.
When ever have you seen fit girls in Havana?
Isn’t havana for old people anyway?
They just didn’t want fat old people
Just curious, why was the ‘fat ban’ focussed on women only ? Was it to make the manager feel better being surrounded by fat men ?
It amazes me the shallow remarks on this page. Probably the same people over and over again.
So let’s see. They get away with this and then the next reason someone isn’t allowed in is because they wear glasses. Oh but you can change that, buy contact lenses.
Or that your hair is the wrong colours. But you can change that, buy some hair dye. Stupid? So is the reason given for refusing entry.
One of the girls refused entry was a size 14. Is that fat? That is actually the average size of a woman in the uk.
The wrong message it is sending is not ‘Stay fat’, the message it is actually sending to young girls is ‘You can only have fun when you look like a stick so start throwing up now’
I think it’s a very good idea to stop them entering, it means more people will get in, they wont take up 2 seats and it saves all the lads worrying about how much drink they can have and not worry about the beer goggles being on. As the saying goes with every liner entering port there is normally 2 tugs in tow, do away with the tugs. They could always join weight watchers.
Terrible, how on earth does the club get away with it. Disabled people next? I cannot understand why this has been allowed in Jersey.
Hi,
I completely agree that fat lasses should be barred from nightclubs they sweat like well errm fat lasses in a disco.
If the chuffers spent as much time on their physical appearance as they have petitioning against Havana they wouldn’t have a problem getting in.
I suggest a sponsored weight loss, for every stone lost, a year’s free membership to Havana is obtained*
I think the nightclub owner is right. Fat people can be a problem. They sweat a LOT more than thin people and take up more that their legal 1m square space allowed per person in a club. It’s completely up to the owner to refuse entry for WHATEVER reason he decides. I’m sure it’s not the first time they’ve been insulted about their weight, and won’t be the last unless they stop eating junk then blaming everyone else.
This story made me laugh and I can’t believe what a stupid comment to make to your potential customers. It seems that the Manager is actually turning away business and this will probably put many more people off going there, so he has well and truly shot himself in the foot!
I expect Havana will probably close very soon and I certainly won’t be spending any of my hard-earned cash there!!!
Further to my earlier comment: I was correct in stating what the licensing law states. However, having now consulted the Economic Development Department, apparently under Common Law a licencee does have the right to refuse entry to anyone they choose.
Well now the ball is still in the court of our States Members - if this law is going to be be abused, which it certainly has been, then perhaps new legislation is actually necessary for a change!
Clare Posted July 29, 2008 at 11:50 am
The Facebook group now has 700 members so quite strong opinions on this one!
I think this just shows what a lot of fat, bored girls there are using facebook to keep in touch with their imaginary friends.
As for the ban, well I wish the airlines would follow their example. I sat next to a beached whale on my last flight, and it was not only did she seriously invade my personal space, but she polluted the air too.
Ha ha funny stuff…
Who cares about Havana’s new policy? Fat People shouldn’t be protected by any laws!! You wanna help other people that are obese?! Then lose some weight and set a good, healthy example!
I can’t believe the comments coming out of people - who do you think you are saying things like, yeh ban fat people, fat people drink more? Who cares what size or shape you are, fat or thin, everybody has the same rights.
People that have agreed with Havanna’s decision are people not worth knowing, of taking any notice of, and also if you met them probably not the most attractive out of the bunch!!!!!!!
You should all be ashamed, take a step back and look at yourselves in the mirror
What is wrong with all of you people who think it is ok to speak to another human being like this. You refer to each overweight lady as if they are just a number. Whether their weight be in their control or not, who are any of us to make another person feel so inadequate.
I have worked in a number of bars and clubs in Jersey over the last 5 years; from experience I find people who have shallow and unaccepting opinions far less unattractive than people who are overweight.
You should hope for your own sakes that they don’t start banning people with empathy deficiencies… after all, you can do something about this!
People have been “discriminating” against ugly people at clubs for decades, yet it’s not newsworthy. Clubs pick and choose who they let in. They always have. Get over it.
“fat people aren’t really appropriate”.
Thanks very much.
I’ve been overweight for about 20 years but feel there is nothing inappropriate about my existence.
The comments from men who state they go out to look at “fit girls” not fat girls wobbling, makes me laugh, as I can guarantee you, that he is an ugly, unfit, unattractive, middle aged prat who couldn’t pull a muscle (as he probably has none) let alone a female, in a million years. It would be like saying to a man, if your not buff (which I am sure BOB is not) then you can’t come in…. show us your pecks mate, nah not beefy enough, how tight are your buns, opps no, lets see those guns… too small, you cant come in! So before you men judge, take a look in the mirror! As the majority of men out there are seriously NOT BUFF ENOUGH!
(you may think I am a big bird and bitter, however at 8 and half stone and 5ft 5” I am a slim bird, so not at all bitter, just putting my point of view across!)
Had a great night at Havana on Saturday. The atmosphere was better than it has been for a long time.
I don’t see what the fuss is all about. I’ve been turned away from Havana in the past for having the wrong shoes on and once for wearing a naff shirt. I don’t remember the rotund local ladies kicking off that it was unfair that I was sent packing on the basis of my appearance.
Seriously though, the queues for the bar were much shorter as there was more room and there wasn’t as much aggro as normal because, let’s be honest, it’s often the big friend who takes upbridge when you’re chatting up a girl.
I’ll be on the dancefloor this Saturday.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again for my larger sisters.
As an overeater I’m fully aware of the risks to me by gorging. Not only am I affecting my health but also my social life.
Nowhere does it say that they have to admit everyone.
Section 1 says is who they must not allow in, not who they must.
Sections 2 says the cops must help remove anyone who has been asked to leave for the reasons outlined in section 1, if requested by the Licensee or their agents.
Section 3 says you must leave if asked to under the reasons listed in section 1 and if you dont you can be fined upto £200.
So nowhere does it state that they have to let everyone in, just who they can’t.
On another note why are people up in arms about this when for several years clubs have had rules about being over 21 for entry. The legal drinking age(in this situation) is 18. So how dare they ban under 21s?
I’m just proud that the manager had the guts to say I don’t like fat chicks.
Not his fault you’re fat.
And he gets his way because fat girls won’t go back there will they? Nope
Totally ridiculous, fat people have feelings too.
It’s called hunger.
this reminds me of the days when black people were denied civil rights in my country. they weren’t allowed to attend the same schools or churches as whites. it was appalling then, and i think it’s an appalling violation of civil rights now that fat people of jersey aren’t allowed to club with thin people.
in the meantime, i think it would be best for the women who were denied entry, as well as their sympathizers, if they opened an obesity-friendly club. perhaps an all you can eat bar with a dance floor?
something to think about.
If similar establishments were able to discriminate against tobacco users either by sectioning them off or outright denying their entry if only for being nasally offensive to other patrons, I don’t see how this is any different in a visual context. This isn’t really newsworthy at all.
The manager deserves a round of applause for helping avert further damage to their health. Now maybe the kebab shops and pie shops of Jersey will follow suit.
fat people shouldn’t be allowed to spoil my night out at all. They should have a curfew of 18:00 and not be allowed anywhere near town. They make me sick.
All this will do is make these people comfort eat even more!
A majority of the people in the Havanna over 55 plus. Why not say “sorry you can’t come in because you’re too old”.
Shame on Martin Sayers and staff. Shame on the Havanna. You will lose a lot of business because of this. We are all human and the rights should be the same for everyone
Now, now ladies, calm down. The last time I’ve seen a bunch of bulky women this upset was when our local supermarket ran out of rice crackers.
Anyway, I like the sound of this club. As an enormously fat man I much prefer looking at attractive, slim young women.
I really would have thought that fat women would be ashamed to go out these days, especially as we now all know that a size 6 woman is now a little on the chubby side.
I think it’s pathetic that something like this has even made the headlines, it just shows what kind of news makes the headlines of our GREAT JEP! In regards to the story itself, fat people are fat because they want to be! It’s about time the goverment deal with this problem as far too many people are obese and normal tax payers like myself are paying for these people to be treated for illnesses that come with being overweight! I myself will be hitting Havana this Saturday night and having a good time! People should get off their high horse and face facts, being overweight is NOT healthy!
Today’s diet:
18 doughnuts in bed
a full fry up for brekkie
Curry and chips for lunch.
2.5ibs of choccies for afternoon snacks
FUll curry with side dish, rice and naan for tea
Hot choccy with a terrys orange float for beddy time.
Now tell me it’s not fair I’m discriminated against.
That little lot is utterly indulgent and I should be penalised for it,
I’m massive and I always get into Havana. JUST TELL THEM YOUR BIG BONED… works evertime!!!
I blame the ‘feeders’.
What policy does the club now work under? I can make up a nice ‘Size 16 and over not allowed’ sign for the front door if they want. £19.99 and it’s yours Martin.
This is a disgrace!
What next, turn people away for having glasses and a receeding hairline.
Pitiful
Business owners have a right to refuse business. By making such a big fuss over all this, he’s getting free marketing across the internet. Good times. Party on!
Problem is as follows:-
society/magazines/tv/etc enforce a wrong body image on women (too skinny).
people (especially women) take this as what people find attractive.
Speaking for myself, i find obese women unattractive, as well as stupidly skinny women. The problem is that we should be promoting a healthy body image. Now this doesn’t mean that i think big people should lose weight, i just mean that they should be able to do some exercise - and same for skinny people.
As soon as everyone figures out that it’s not the size of people that they have a problem with, it’s the uglyness of an unhealthy body that they don’t like.
Plus anyone who thinks that the refusal of fat people into a club is discrimination then take this example:
Guy wears an offensive tshirt. He wouldn’t be allowed into a club as it’s offensive. Same for obese people. The reality is that a lot of people find their image offensive.
Oh and those who use Marilyn Monroe as an example, yes she was a 16, but she was a healthy 16. (curvy does not equal fat and visa versa).
RAR! Fatties fight back… storm the place and refuse to leave until you’ve eaten all their food and drunk all their drink.
Anyway, fat people are fat because God made them fat. Out of fat clay. With fat fingers and hands.
There’s a world of difference between being a race or sexual orientation, and being fat. In fact it’s belittling racial and sexual discrimination by even implying they’re in the same ballpark as weight discrimination. “Too fat” is a dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle and can be fixed with a little effort. There’s nothing wrong with being black/polish/gay, and nothing that can be done to change it anyway.
Total discrimination. The last time I tried to leave the club I had to wait 10 minutes to get out the door while a fight broke out!! Anyway, totally agree with Comment 88 - go to the Royal Yacht where they accept people of all shapes and sizes!!
It’s a private club, they can deny entrance to anyone they want for whatever reason they want. Don’t like it? Go to a different club.
Contrary to popular belief, you do NOT have the right to never be offended.
Good for the owner, his club, his rules, if you don’t like it go somewhere else or lose the weight.
Ha ha this is a bit far out!!
Maybe they should have a “salad dodger evening” and ban all skinny people to compensate!
Its not right i know, but comedy is tragedy that happens to someone else!
The right to refuse service is the well within their legal means. Sure it is demeaning when it is exercised, but it’s a private club. If they don’t want fat chicks (or blacks, gays, men over 40, terrorists, alligators, etc) in there, so be it. Go somewhere else. There are plenty of other great clubs and bars.
I dare ANYONE who claims that being fat is a CHOICE to spend a day in a fat person’s shoes. Why would anyone willingly keep themselves in a state that subjects them to the kind of ignorant and abusive treatment demonstrated in this thread? The answer is THEY WOULDN’T.
Fat is no more a choice than being thin. How many of you eat the recommended amount of fruits and vegetables? Exercise the recommended amount? Be honest.
So, you’re not fat. Who do you think you are that you can make statements whether or not fat is a choice?
I dare you all to do some research before you make such bold statements regarding OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT and, maybe, in the process, you’ll learn to form your OWN opinions instead of just parroting everything they say on the TV.
Here, let me give you a good place to start:
http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/
Clubs are private. They can refuse entry/services to whomever they please for whatever reason. Usually, they don’t actually SAY you look fat, you look like a terrorist, etc, etc. But thems the breaks. Deal with it.
Clubs are allowed to bar whoever they want, except on certain legal grounds, e.g. race, sexual orientation. As others have noted, these are things you’re born with and are value-neutral. Being fat, with a few medical exceptions, is largely personal choice and a bad one at that.
This incident is so sad and shameful .
Who does Martin Sayers think he is to judge people in this way?
To those who say that being fat is a choice - I hope you remain skinny all your days and never have to discover how difficult it is to lose weight.
It’s not funny, it’s not clever it’s just sad. Martin said that business had been bad…….well let’s just see how bad it can get.
The club are within their rights to refuse entry to whoever they want. They could have been more tactful if they wanted to pull it off though. They could have made aby reason up, just NOT THAT ONE. Calling a girl fat is a big nono. Any guy knows that.
Discrmination is an overused word. I discriminate too. I avoid clubs where there are mingers. That indicates my preference, and if I owned a club where I wanted only mingers, only Jews, only models or whatever, it is my right to do so.
Fat girls get a grip on that weight. Your frustration energy is better directed at efforts to eat less and hit the running track. Most thin people put in effort to stay thin; why shouldn’t they be rewarded with a place where similar people can mingle without fear of being eaten or bounced off the dancefloor?
They did you a favour actually, think of all those empty calories they saved you that day! Being realistic, nobody wants the ‘fatty’ to sit down next to them on public transport and it’s about time we stopped walking on eggshells around ‘fat’ people, you’re like that cause you consume far too much and don’t exercise. You also seem to think anyone who’s slim, doesn’t eat and are quite vocal about it. Maybe the worm has turned!!
A few points:
“Unfortunately, most fat people WILL NOT lose weight unless they subsist in 300 calories a day.” - To lose weight all you have to do is eat less energy than you expend. 300 calories a day is too low, but 1000-1200 calories isn’t. Do you believe that someone who eats junk food everyday will not lose weight if they swapped the junk for sensible food? They will, it’s a scientific fact.
“Ask ANY naturally people if they would be willing to do it, and they would laugh at your face.” - I presume you mean ‘naturally slim’. If you asked me not to scoff like a pig and to eat a sensible diet, I would not laugh at your face. Well I might laugh at your face, but I wouldn’t laugh in your face, which is what I think you meant.
“If THIN people had to make any sacrifice to be thin, they probably wouldn’t.” - I make the ’sacrifice’ of not eating too much, going to the gym, running and lifting weights frequently (although I do enjoy it).
“They are “blessed” because their body type fits today’s beauty standards” - I think you are confusing the terms ‘Body type’ and ‘rate of metabolism’, some people have a differen’t metabolism that means they will get fatter on the same diet as someone else. This isn’t an excuse for being a porker, it just means you have to recognise that your food requirements aren’t as great as others, and eat less as a result. It would actually be a benefit in an environment where food is scarce. As for ‘beauty standards’, you do understand that the reason we perceive people as beautiful is because we are genetically predisposed to be attracted to individuals that show characteristics that would enable them to survive. This is why women are attracted to a slim muscly guy who would be able to hunt and kill the dinner, fight enemies and run from danger, instead of a porky bloke that couldn’t run the length of a football pitch. Slim people being considered beautiful isn’t a new concept or a passing fad.
“being obese is a fact of life, cannot be magically changed (try to lose 10 stone before saying it’s easy) and even though it doesn’t have to be admired, has to be ACCEPTED.” - It is not a fact of life. Obese people have made a choice to eat too much, simple as that. It can be magically changed, by the miracle of physical exercise and reducing calorie intake. I do not accept fat people. None of my friends are fat and I would not employ them to work for me.
YES! This club did the right thing.
Being FAT is NOT OK. Fat people are food addicts, just like junkies are drug addicts.
When I see a fat person, I am just as disgusted as when I see a heroin addict.
Lose weight or don’t go out.
Martin never fails to make me laugh… outrageous though his comments may be, you can’t buy the kind of publicity he has gained for the club! Look forward to a night of fun & frolics on my return to the Island.. People should lighten up, and maybe the doormen should be a tad more tactful.
Well, it is privately owned, it’s a service business - the discrimination factor is noted, but at the same time most places of business reserve the right to refuse service as well.
i’m so sick of fat people whining. i’m an underweight man and you wouldn’t believe how much crap i take on a daily basis. so you couldn’t get into some club, boohoo. i think these girls have more important things they need to address (e.g., living comfortably past thirty?). if you can’t handle the bigotry, stay out of the dunkin’ donuts.
*hint*
hit the gym!
Im not from Jersey but read about this in The Sun.
If there is a rival club to havana this may be a good opportunity for them to dismiss lollipop heads from entering their club.
Not likely to happen but lollipop heads are just as unhealthy as obese.
Fat people need to know their place in the world. Clubs are for attractive people to hang out. I wouldn’t mind if you were ugly, at the very least you shouldn’t be obese.
Fat people are bad business. Who wants to go to a club with fat chicks? This is why car hopping was invented.
Instead of whining on FaceBook and to the media, how about you spend that same effort trying to lose weight?
Fat people is rarely genetics, it’s from stuffing your face out. Eat less fried chicken and Taco Bell, run a few blocks and shape up.
No one wants to go to a club with fat people. There’s e-harmony for that.
AHH get over yourselves!!
Why would you want someone who’s going to take up all the space in your club?
For every fattie you could have two regular people, which means twice as much drink and nicer people to look at. It bad enough queing at the bar for a drink, but if your next to a sweaty fattie its even worse!
Fatties take some responsibility and get a gym membership
I don’t normally comment on these websites but I have just read this story and I must say I am shocked and appalled by the narrow-minded bigotry that is being displayed here.
How dare you presume to tell people who they can allow into the club that they own.
The manager must be loving all the publicity this hilarious situation has got him! he doesn’t let a couple of fatties in and now all the other fatties and chubby chasers are gonna go elsewhere! the only problem is that that represents a lot of the Jersey population!
Loving the ad for alvin’s pizza on this page too!!
Point 1
“You cannot be discriminated over something you CHOOSE.”
Nonsense. I choose to convert to Judaism. Hitler and the third Reich have a right to put up a sign in a shop saying “No Jews”?
Point 2
Fat people are fat because they are lazy, eat too much etc. More nonsense. Do people really believe that is the 1 simple reason? Anyone heard of genetic determinism? Yeah, it’s such a simple issue, I’m sure humiliating someone in public will be just the ‘kickstart’ they need to go on a diet.
I wonder how many people would stand by their comments if one of the women refused entry had gone home and then committed suicide after being turned away?
The people who own the club and all of those that are making inappropriate comments on here should be totally and completely ashamed of yourselves. I was terrified by a doctor at the age of 5 about being fat, went anorexic at 6 and have had weight and food problems ever since. At the age of 18 I was diagnosed with a life-long serious illness caused by this FAT issue. Now wake up and smell the coffee you idiots you only live once whether fat, thin, ugly, stupid, gay etc. Live life while you can cause you never know what will happen to you tomorrow!
The problem here is not that these ladies were refused entry for being fat - it’s that they are fat.
It works like this. If you are skinny and are refused entry on that basis, you take it on the chin.
Fatties, however, always take it personally when they are called fat. And that’s because they have low self-esteem. And the only thing that makes them feel better is eating more (perhaps because in a sordid kind of way it’s the only way they can feel as if they are masters of their own destiny).
If only fat people would just take things less seriously (including food), the world would be a less whining place.
It’s private, and the owners reserve a right to bar anyone from the club. If he doesn’t like fat people, he can do what he pleases.
And personally, fat people, you need to lose some weight. Cut the calories and the sodium and the saturated fat. Why not skip that KFC and go eat a salad with minimum dressing? That owner gave you a heads up to get your life in shape.
Dont forget folks if you want to tell this bolke of your disgust do what i did and go to their website and send an e mail direct to them ,i have lol
PS :i wont be coming into this club EVER again ,count on that
Discriminating against people because of their weigth and size is just wrong. Here’s a though for you “thin” people. How would you like if you tried to get into a club and were turned away because you were too small?
I can’t believe that there are people comparing this to being black/gay/polish.
None of the above ‘conditions’ is the person’s fault. Being fat means that you’ve been consuming more calories than you’re burning. It’s treatable through exercise and a calorie controlled diet.
I mean, sure, it’s not cool for the club to discriminate against fat people, it’s well within their rights (they’re a private establishment, and may refuse entry for any reason that they see fit within the letter of the law), but it sucks. However, do not attempt to lump weight discrimination in with racism or homophobia. There’s a major difference between judging somebody because of the colour of their skin, nationality, or sexual orientation, and judging somebody based on the personal choices that they make every day of their lives when it comes to exercise and diet.
You have every right to eat more calories than you burn.
Other people have every right to their opinion regarding this.
You have every right to be offended by this opinion.
They have every right not to care.
People don’t bitch and moan about clubs lettings girls in free on certain nights. A club reserves the right to say who gets in and who does not. I’m not