JERSEY’S political system is ‘little more than an elected dictatorship’, according to a member of Guernsey’s Policy Council.
Housing Minister Dave Jones, pictured, condemned Jersey’s fledgling executive government system as a failure, saying: ‘Jersey went for a form of executive government that clearly is not working. Nor does it have a general election in the true sense of the word. It has a series of elections for officials, Deputies and Senators.
‘Guernsey has a system which gives the people government from the bottom up, not the top down, and the real control over policy remains firmly on the floor of the assembly – not, as in Jersey, behind closed doors by a handful of ministers.
‘To be blunt, the Jersey system is little more than an elected dictatorship.’
Article posted on 26th August, 2008 - 2.58pm
24 Article Comments
You have seen the wife swap TV series.. how about we swap island governments for a bit and see what happens!
Report abuse
I have to agree with Dave Jones’s comment that our government is little more than an elected dictatorship.
Furthermore, I have to complain about the ministers themselves: they are little more than very tall dwarves (apart from those that are very short giants). And I can attest that every one is a law-abiding criminal.
Apart from all that, what is going on with the government buildings themselves? Why do they choose to meet in the mouths of active volcanoes (albeit flat volcanoes with no eruptions and nice interior decoration)?
Report abuse
Nice to see the Guernsey diplomatic corps working to its normal standards.
Report abuse
Well said, this is something we have known for several years and the cracks are starting to show, first the judiciary and now the politicians. let’s see how they try and keep their cosy, well-paid little club together. Election times coming and I for one cannot wait, this time they have to go.
Report abuse
How true!
How embarrassing that it took a Guernsey man to say it.
Report abuse
In answer to Dave Jones who sits on Policy Council–Many would consider that Guernsey also has a form of executive government through the introduction of a Policy Council in the last four years. Increasingly policy is coming out of sub groups of the Policy Council–0/10, population and migration and strategic land use policy to name a few examples–as top down decision making rather than being derived from committees set up on the floor of the House.
Report abuse
Thank God somebody has the guts to say what I have been saying for years.
Why is it not acceptable for myself and friends to go and watch a pole dancer or lap dancer,
yet gay marriage is acceptable?
I’m not against gay people or anyone else.However, Jersey portrays itself as anti everything. For example, what is there for the children?
There was more for people to do 30 years ago than there is now!!! This must be one of the only places in the modern world where there isn’t an amusement park for kids. Then the people complain when they get into trouble, most resulting from sheer boredom.
The children are angry and shout at you constantly on the streets. Who will want to look after all the old people?
Not the disgruntled youngsters that’s for sure. If gay marriage is acceptable then so is pole dancing and the like. Jersey is a dictatorship because it twists the laws to suit itself.
Report abuse
Spot on Mr Jones – many of us in Jersey agree totally with you. Guernsey is also different to us in that the Guernsey States do try to look after the interests of their own people first – another example our States should consider following for a change!
Report abuse
I must agree with Dave Jones (not because we have the same surname!) Jersey was supposed to have a transparent government, but what has happened? All major decisions (or nearly all) are taken behind closed doors. It’s just as well our Chief Minister wants to retire now. The people would have done it for him if he looked to be re-elected.
Report abuse
Time to clean up your act over there in Jersey.
Report abuse
So what?
A dictatorship is the best form of government provided you have a good dictator.
Report abuse
On the money Mr Jones never a truer word was uttered. Deputy De Lisle you will get no brownnose points for defending the indefensible
Report abuse
Anyone who has ever attended a Planning Application meeting will have experienced what a dictatorship Jersey is. Freddie Cohen is able to dictate, demand and subject people to whatever takes his fancy (or not as the case maybe!) Its a real eye-opener to most people the way that their government can make decisions.
As our government are in a position of so much potential power, how could this possibly be allowed to happen?
Report abuse
here, here, well said mr jones, the jersey states only do what they want,behind those doors,they never really listen to the people.but they are quick to blame the people when it all go,s wrong.
Report abuse
How you can say we have a dictatorship, how unfair!
Jersey has the best politicians money can buy…after all, look how many companies both here and abroad have bought them.
Report abuse
Jersey is run by a elected dictatorship that’s why i left the island , with the main dictator frank walker running the show.
Report abuse
got it in one. And now the government in Jersey is panicking because of an election in the offing and they know they won’t win it. So their cushy lives will be gone!
Report abuse
The election will not change much.
The Constables that will be standing will be returned unopposed in almost all cases on the grounds that they are nonpolitical.
Most of the country parishes will return their Deputy also unopposed.
Senator Terry Le Sueur will not be standing for reelection this time round and he will almost certainly become Chief Minister on the basis of the votes from the above mentioned and a few others.
Zimbabwe will be sending a team to study how we have non elections in Jersey in the New Year and I think the Chinese might be interested as well…
Report abuse
WELL DONE SIR!! Please lets have some more truths about this barbaric selfish dictators who only have they own interests at heart and that is GREED!
Report abuse
loving your comment Pearl and unfortunately I feel very true, which is a great shame as this island needs to readdress the balance as I have said many many times before the children on today are our future and if we can’t look after them now when they need it then who the h*ll is going to look after us when we get old ? May Mr Jones you would like to come over here and help sort out our government then need a serious hand and even then by present standards they will fail to change. As for Terry Le Sueur being Chief Minister well God help us is all I can say.
Report abuse
It’s not as bad as when Hitler governed the Island, though!
Report abuse
There is no need for a brutal dictatorship under a system like we have in Jersey.
A few hundred at most elect a Deputy and a Constable in St Mary and other country parishes. Thousands of votes pile up in St Helier etc but they return only a few more members.
The electoral system is loaded in favour of the status quo to such an extent that popular protest can be ignored.
Witness the petition against GST, it could be safely ignored as most of the people who signed have only a tenth of a vote compared with say the average elector in St Mary, if there is an election in the parish which is unlikely!
Report abuse
Perhaps it is time for a revolution. Time to ask our French friends for a loan of the guillotine so that we may erect it in the Royal Square!
We need:-
A Land Registration act to ensure once a house is sold its records are on file and the parasites that currently feed on petty legal disputes can no longer screw the buyer or the seller. Eventually it should cost little more to sell a house than it does to sell a car.
It would be good to build a bridge to France, export our waste there and save the expense of an incinerator. If we can’t have a bridge, let us vote for a French supermarketand break the current monopolies on imports.
If people can have tax relief on mortgages, those that pay rent and finish up with nothing should also have rent allowances.
The personal allowance should be raised to exclude the poor. To balance this, the rich should be made to pay a higher percentage and the 1K residents a equally fair proportion of their income. That income is usually derived from the undervalued work of the people on the shop floor or through unearned interest on their accumulated wealth.
We also need to follow the Observer’s opt out policy on organ donations i.e. if you don’t opt out, the medical services will use whatever is serviceable. Far better your body parts are recycled than vaporised or chewed up by worms.
We need to ask if backhanders are paid to those that vote for the anti social building developments that continue to plague the island.
Report abuse
July 2008
Is Jersey an Elected Dictatorship?
Just a few comments on this subject, firstly Power should always be vested in the hands of the many, not the hands of a few,
Democracy only exists when people elect those who govern them. (European Journal 2006)
While I am on the subject I am not a big fan of part politics either. The UK has basically a two party system which in my view is a bit like two wolves discussing with a sheep what they are going to have for dinner, and in any event most of the decision making process in the UK has decamped to Brussels.
“It is one thing to loose your country in times of war, it is quite another to have it donated to a foreign power by your own government” (Dave Jones UKIP conference 2007)
It has to be remembered that in the U.K., the voter effectively selects their chosen candidate at election time mainly on the basis of party affiliation. Or in other words the voter chooses an ideology first and a candidate second.
This is a core distinction between the U.K. and local systems and the two cannot be meshed together in order to give Jersey a system based on a combination of the two.
For example, in almost every ward or constituency in the U.K. the voter can decide from among those standing for election, confident that that candidate who stands under his favoured party ticket will broadly represent those political views and policies which closely accord with his own.
A Consensus political system such as we have in Guernsey is the purest form of democracy in the world, those who are elected are free to vote on the policies they stood for and truly believe in, which they believe will deliver the best for their people, they are not shackled to a party system that forces them to follow a party doctrine that is often at times diametrically opposed to what they believe is right.
That kind of blind obedience is what fuels political dishonesty and the general public distrust of those who say one thing to get elected and do another when they get into power because their party says so.
A consensus system also prevents those within it from being corrupted, with a Cabinet or executive, you would only have to corrupt or persuade a dozen people or so of your particular point of view in order to get government policy changed, with 45 individuals it is almost impossible for one pressure group or an individual to corrupt an entire government.
With a party system, while the political direction might alter when governments change, the actual mechanism of government, carried out at civil service level, will continue almost seamlessly. The danger however with this correlation is that often civil servants become more powerful than the politicians.
The Westminster model is also a bi-cameral administration, with a revising or second chamber. It is true that the legitimacy of how this second chamber is selected has come in for some criticisms of late. your system on the other hand relies solely on an ‘in house’ scrutiny committee, as well as public opinion or scrutiny from outside the house.
The Clothier Report would have you believe that a ‘modified form’ of what works after a fashion in the U.K., with a ‘party based’ system, with all the attendant safeguards, could be made to work in Jersey, with your unique form of government, (where many of those safeguards are conspicuous by their absence).
The checks and balances that underpin the U.K. system are as follows:
Opposition parties.
A second debating chamber (House of Lords)
The Select Committee System (to call Ministers and Civil Servants to account)
An Investigative Press (that acts as a public scrutiny of government policy and behaviour) more likely to bring down corrupt or unsuitable politicians than any other form of scrutiny.
Jersey has only one of these (Scrutiny) because it is a different system.
However the only true scrutiny committee is the voter armed with a voting slip and a crayon standing in front of the ballot box.
The elector in Jersey does not help elect a member to serve in the parliament of a party based administration, as would be the case in many countries, he helps elect an entire government, including a built in opposition.
It is also to miss the point that the only viable alternative to a party based method of government is some form of ‘executive administration’, unless of course one wanted to introduce a dictatorship by some other name.
Island Wide Voting
I could see the sense of an executive system of government for Jersey, providing that all the members of the States had been voted in on an ‘Island Wide’ mandate and could be de-selected by the same method. As I understand it, a partial Island wide voting system will not prevent the new proposed ministerial jobs going to those elected just in their parish.
It has been claimed that Island wide voting would throw up the populist candidates who might not be the most suitable politicians, when in government. Healthy governments are made up from a cross section of a community and in any government there must always be room for those who do not necessarily fit the perfect political model.
The important point to remember is that while the public might choose the members who make up the States, it is the House who chooses those who will be the leaders (Presidents or Ministers). What better system is there than one which allows the House to choose the best member from among those whom the public have given the widest possible mandate?
This new executive style of government, without an island wide voting system will do nothing to bring in from the cold all those thousands of disillusioned voters who have turned their backs on an electoral system they perceive to be undemocratic.
A system which has so far failed to stem the tide of apathy bringing your system dangerously close to ridicule, even leading perhaps to its eventual collapse.
The possible consequences of embarking on a change to a more ‘focussed’ form of government, without first addressing the pressing matter of the limited support for the present political system is extremely dangerous This lack of support is clearly revealed in terms of the diminishing numbers of people prepared to visit the ballot box.
People’s Deputies and Senators make decisions that effect the lives of every man, woman and child in the Island, yet at present the electorate can only vote to elect or remove a handful of deputies who happen to stand in the parish where the voter resides.
More importantly once elected the politician, should they choose, can ignore the concerns of the rest of the island electorate. They need only take heed of the wishes of the voters in their own particular parish, secure in the knowledge that these are the only voters who will have the power to remove them at the next election. Given that position, is it any wonder that people who are forced by the system to vote on Parish lines, desert the ballot box when the views of the Parish are constantly ignored by States Members the voter had no hand in electing?
This same Parish system gives the voter very little real choice of candidate on polling day, this invariably leads to the voter electing the candidates they dislike least, rather than selecting those they like the most. Finding themselves in this situation the only other option open to those disaffected voters, unable to find a suitable candidate in their Parish, is not to vote at all. An option more and more people are adopting.
This kind of apathy can often lead to people no longer wishing to register on the electoral roll and in many cases, never returning to vote again. This present voting system leaves all the members of the House free to inflict unwelcome and unsympathetic development in any parish of their choosing, fully aware that the views of the residents of that parish will be of little consequence. Their vote cannot damage the chances of the people who made that decision outside the parish in question.
It is just as important, for the electorate of the island to be able to remove politicians, as it is to put them in office in the first place.
The notion that this is what happens at present is incorrect. Parish elections continually return candidates with a strong local following, resulting from church, extended family influence and parish patronage on key issues within the parish, or whatever. Members can and do, frequently gain seats with a handful of votes and often gain powerful and influential positions in government, despite an ever-diminishing mandate from the people.
Harwood in Guernsey suggested that the island needs ’strong’ candidates who command wide support both inside and outside the chamber. What member of the States could possibly disagree with that statement? Members elected into office on an ‘Island Wide’ mandate would clearly have demonstrated that they had that support, before taking up their seats in government.
They would equally be aware that those very same voters could just as easily remove them should the wishes of the people be consistently ignored.
One of the most frequent charges laid against States Members is that “politicians do not listen to public opinion”.
It has been claimed that ‘too much’ democracy makes it hard for politicians to make difficult or unpopular decisions that all governments at some time need to make. This is in my view is insulting and patronising to the people of Jersey. If the public has freely chosen all their representatives and voted them into government, providing politicians inform, consult and listen to the electorate properly, implementing just and reasonable policies, the people will give such a government their support.
What is abundantly clear at the moment is that States Members in both islands cannot lay claim to that support. Both islands have become a very unpleasant places for some in our communities. A place of poverty and despair for many, a place many local people no longer feel a part of.
It has also been said that our governments have become far too willing to pander to powerful sectional interests, this is to the detriment of many who simply want to be represented as island residents.
Our governments should be creating a climate that gives all of our community an affordable lifestyle for themselves and their children.
The people should not be treated as a commodity that is only required to put a ‘cross’ on a ballot paper every four years in order for that ‘cross’ to bring them more of the same.
There are many islanders who believe that States Members have turned their backs on them altogether, they in turn no longer wish to be involved in the electoral process. Without the people turning up at the polling stations, any change of government is pointless. People need to feel that their vote matters, when they see that it doesn’t they find other things to do on Election Day.
Any radical changes ought to be about bringing the government of Jersey into the twenty first century. Both islands need a modern Island wide voting system with all politicians sitting in the States on equal terms. Fit for the twenty first century, are we to continue to saddle it with an electoral system that we inherited from the nineteenth?
Those who are opposed to island wide voting often say the ballot paper would contain to many names, or it would be to complicated to administer. I would say to them, would you trust a group of people to run a multi million pound economy who can’t even organise an election on an island the size of Jersey?
It says much about the present electoral system, when you consider that the means of identifying the voter’s choice is to make the sign of a cross on the ballot sheet. A cross was all that most people could manage in an age when illiteracy was common place. This is a measure of how far out of date our system of elections has become.
Modern elections throughout the world are carried out using electronic voting, postal votes, and touch screen computers. Any modern democracy, even those as small as ours, can have whatever type of election they desire.
There are well respected organisations that will provide all the necessary equipment and hardware to run a ‘modern’ election in the island, all you need is the political will to do it
Deputy Dave Jones
Member of the States of Guernsey
Report abuse