From Arthur Caree.
I AM disgusted by the sad apologies that have been offered by all the owners of large 4×4s to date.
Let me say what I am sure most folk really want to say. I own a big, fat, gas-guzzling 4×4 because I want to and I can. As I only get 15 mpg, I buy a load of petrol and therefore pay way more in tax than folk who wait in the rain for a bus.
When I am stopped in traffic I look down on you folk in your 850 cc tin cans and feel safe in my 2.5 tonne monster.
This weekend, go hug a tree and sort your tin cans and sock drawer. I shall be towing my big fat boat with my big fat car and hopefully catching some of the last remaining big fat fish in the sea.
Newlands,
Rue de la Capelle,
Leoville,
St Ouen.
Article posted on 21st February, 2009 - 9.59am
89 Article Comments
I dont’t drive.
But I have to say, great letter. I totally agree. The only reason I don’t drive is through my own choice but when I decide that I want to start driving I will choose the car that I want – not the one that people insist I should have.
People that moan about 4×4s are generally those that want one but can’t justify it to themselves.
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you dont care eh? so ill continue to never ever let you out at junctions
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Great letter. Your critics, of course, all live totally environmentally beneficial lives!!!
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Well said, Arthur. I own an SUV myself – because I want to, for a wide variety of reasons. I can afford 17mpg, as I do less than 1500 miles a year … and I believe I’m still living in a free country.
The mindless and ignorant twittering about 4×4s irritates me endlessly.
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You said it all. Well done
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I think you’ve all missed the irony of this letter!
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There is no need for 4×4’s in Jersey. Jersey roads are too small for them and half the people driving them haven’t got a clue how to drive them anyway. I once was asked by a lady driver of a 4×4 if I could move my car so she could park her 4×4 in a parking space. The space was that large it could easily accommodate a bus however it wasn’t big enough for her to manouveur her 4×4 into.
4×4’s are a status symbol thats why people have them. Maybe Humvies will be the next “I must have” in Jersey? I find it sad that people must brag how important they are by the size of their motor. Who really cares because I don’t, I just think they look daft. A bit like in the days of early mobile phones when some people thought it was cool to have the biggest phone you could, people now have them as small as possible. Dom Jolly took the mikey out of these people on his T.V. show it was very apt. Hopefully sense will enter the car market soon especially with the upcoming severe recession.
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Adrian. I think you do care. or you wouldn’t have posted your comment!
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Quot:4×4’s are a status symbol thats why people have them. Maybe Humvies will be the next “I must have”
How, small minded one has to be, to have a ,”4X4″ as a status symbol, I think this is a ” Jersey/ UK thing” here on the Continent almost anyone came afford to drive a Mercedes or 4×4
I don´t think it is considered “a Status symbol” small = people small minds.
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Adrian, I wonder what assumptions you make about everyone that drives a ‘4×4′?
I know people that do actually need these vehicles. I’m not a symbol status type person, I’m just not interested, and I find people that buy them as symbol statuses quite sad really. However, I don’t assume that every ‘4×4′ is a status symbol, I assume that the person might actually need such a vehicle, unless shown otherwise.
Innocent until proven guilty anyone?
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The world has been driven mad by media hype quite literally thinking that 4 x 4s are the one and only evil. What about the multitude of high performance sports cars and other seriously large cars on the island’s roads that consume just as much fuel as the 4 x 4 and some of which only carry 2 people? We still have a small farming and boating community which need of 4 x4 powers. However, why have a car that can go at 120MPH, only carry 2 people and seems to be parked accross two public parking space so as not to get scratched and guzzle more fuel when the speed limit is 40MPH the parking spaces seem to be shrinking? Oh yes, I drive a 4 x4, yes we need this type of car and yes we have such a restricted bus service where we live we have no option but to use it daily which includes the driving of young people to school !
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I’m working class and proud. I also drive a 4×4. when I bought it I think I paid less than my mother paid for her 2nd hand renault clio.
The idea that everyone who drives a 4×4 does so as some kind of status symbol is riduclous. Some people have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.
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Interesting but incorrect perception that 4×4 are bigger. They are not. Taller yes, but the average ones seen on our roads are not as wide as most large saloons.
One upon a time people thought the world was flat. I am sure they believed it as that is what their eyes saw. But once the facts were known, they were enlightened.
‘The truth is out there’
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While walking off Condor on Thursday morning on its arrival in Jersey the looks on the faces of the French day trippers as a J Reg hummer roared up the gang way was a picture – they thought the owner was mad – why buy a new one when there is so much more to life
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Absolutely fantastic letter!
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I am so bored with all this rubbish about 4X4’s !Jersey is full of people who regard various possessions as status symbols but I would have thought a 4X4 comes way down the list.We owned one before we left Jersey and it was very useful when packing up and leaving by boat as it held a lot of stuff!!We still have the same one and although keep promising ourselves a new car our old 4X4 is comfortable,100% reliable and apart from being filthy most of the time in great condition as recently confirmed to us by a mechanic.For moving a toddler plus baby and their double buggy plus other assorted equipment it is practical too.Yes we now live in the UK where these vehicles are more practical but as I have commented before why does no-one object to the silly amount of high speed sports cars on the island that are certainly not designed for small country lanes and speeds of under 40mph?
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I’d just be happy with people who could
- stay on their half
- indicate
- wait until I’ve driven past a junction rather than waiting until the last second to try and to pull out in front of me
Any car welcome if they can do the above!
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I don’t really have anything against these vehicles. It’s just a shame that many of the people that own them can’t drive them. Generalisation maybe – but we only believe what we experience.
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Comment number 7 Adrian- There’s no need for 4×4’s? We all think of the lone yummy mummy, with her massive shades on driving along with a tiny tot in the back. However, there are a number of 4×4 drivers who have them for good reason, Fisherman, farmers, builders etc. Some of my friends do own 4×4’s and they are in no way a staus symbol, unless you count smelling of fish bait, towing a fishing boat, or lugging round tools and materials part of that status symbol- these are working cars. I completely agree with Julie, comment 16, we should be complaing about the silly amounts of sports cars. Gas guzzlers, on an island where the spped limit is 40mph, and not really something you can car share with.
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I Have 2,
One for me and one for my wife.
And the kids drive their own
I really enjoy driving , and find the majority of drivers who purchase a vehicle they too enjoy driving end up taking of interest in driving. This I believe, leads to becoming a better driver. If all I could look forward to was levering my 6foot 2 frame into an underpowered sardine can buzz box, I too would probably end up as a winging, got no idea about how to drive, grean,anorak,hate 4×4,why have something that big, Adrian type.
Surely it would be kinder to let me drive my 4×4
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well said Arthur. Stop all of these people moaning once and for all!
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Not sure what all of the fuss is about really!
A few years back, I needed an estate type vehicle and bought a LWB Shogun 3.0 Automatic. As expected it liked a drink. In reality, I found the interior too small for my requirements, which necessitated the use of a Roof Box when we went away so we could then not get in most of the car parks. Also at 70 M.P.H, (it had cruise control) one did not really feel in control and if one had had to take avoiding action, or a tyre had burst, it would have turned over.
While I faced no derogatory 4 x 4 comments during my ownership, I realised that it was not a drivers vehicle, and changed it for a Mercedes E Class estate, which was longer and wider than the Shogun. It was still too small for when we went away five up, but at least the addition of a roof box did not make it too tall for the car parks and one could easily reach in to the roof box to retrieve items.
Back in the 70’s, the Volvo Estate was despised by all and sundry. People generally just like to moan about something!
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I recently purchased a wonderful Range Rover Sport 2.7 diesal because I have a growing family and needed something a bit bigger to cart around the stuff the kids need!!! Plus I really like them the little display tells me that its doing circa 25 mpg.
One thing I have noticed is that most of the twittering about 4×4’s/”the enviroment” is done by people who drive old Volvo’s…which invariably do 20mpg!!!!
Long live the 4×4!!
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Toria why do fishermen and farmers need 4×4’s? The ones I know use tractors to tow things like big boats or to get around the farm. There is no need for a 4×4 in Jersey just as there is no need for 200mph sports cars so why do most people have at least one of these two?
A tractor will do everything a 4×4 will do and more. I haven’t seen a 4×4 ploughing a field yet or spraying crops etc. I believe that people choose these type of vehicles to make themselves look big and important as a statement of look at me I’m important or I have loadsa money. A tractor will do everything a 4×4 will do but it doesn’t look as flash, would this have anything to do with people not being as keen to use them instead of a 4×4?
I see so many massive 4×4’s driving in Jersey especially by mums who are unable to reverse it just makes me laugh. It is unfair on other road users. Why have something you are unable to drive properly or feel uncomfortable driving?
Yes in the outback these utes would be ideal where you have to drive 500-1000km just to the shop but to drive a maximum of 12 miles in any one direction? I’m sorry but they are too big and bulky for Jersey roads. The smallest of the 4×4’s are a reasonable size but they don’t seem as popular for some reason? I had a family and never needed a 4×4 to get around in. Maybe people have too much stuff now to move around or maybe they are too affluent?
I don’t hate big 4×4’s but they have their places of use and I believe Jersey isn’t one of them. But as everyone has free choice it is up to them to decide what is right. Whether the resultant generations will thank these “I’m doing what I want regardless of others” types when they have no livable planet left is a moot point. However as those who will have contributed to the problem getting worse won’t be here then they have no need to alter their ways to help others do they?
Thinking of others is a good thing to do, as if everyone were to do this we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in now would we?
I do like PJG’s comment that 4×4’s make people better drivers. Maybe he should speak to some of the mums on the school trips and show them where their 4×4’s reverse gear is, as this would be of great help to other road users, and give the rest of us a better driving experience.
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Need is relative, I’ve lived on Jersey most of my life, and now am living on the continent. Its fascinating to see how everyone cycles everywhere in Holland, young, old and even families. I’ve even seen people transport furniture on their bikes over here in holland, and there are certainly alot less overweight people here.
The general mentality of people on Jersey is: “I want to make my life as easy and as comfortable as I can, because I deserve it, and I’ve worked hard for it. Comfort = Space. I don’t have a moral responsibility for the greater good, I have a need to be comfortable because I can, I don’t have a need to think about global warming because it doesnt effect me directly, so why should i bother?”
Until there is a need, people wont change. More is better, bigger in this case is better! Because I can carry more, use more, do more.
Though it is interesting to see that the guy who designed the McClaren F1, Gordon Murray which was the technically most advanced car in the world at the time and fastest is now concentrating in designing the cheapest and cleanest for regular commuting which accounts for over 90% of our journeys.
This is a common change in the whole car industry as a whole, and a change in the global consciousness to drive towards cleaner more efficient vehicles. Until the mindset of efficiency is hammered home into need, the change wont happen, and typically this would unlikely happen on Jersey.
So to sum up, its a free world. its your own choice what you drive based on need, so why bother other people about it, and force your opinion on others?
ps. Its not necessary the car you drive that makes it eco friendly or not, its more about the way you drive. True, in America, there are these inefficient Gas guzzlers, but on the continent, i get constantle harassed by tailgaters going full throttle at 100mph. Which surely uses just as much fuel, and emits just as much co2.
pps. I also work for an ecology company, and I don’t hug trees, as all the forests are all man made here!
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Adrian(24) maybe a tractor would do the job a 4 x 4 but when these builders fishermen and farmers are moving about in the rush hour trafic you would only be moaning about the speed of the traffic being too slow because the top speed of a tractor is approx 20mph take a look around you it is potato planting season and have you tried to pass a tractor on some of the narrow lanes at the moment at times they take over the whole road!
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I think the letter as posted by Mr Caree is disgusting. Yes you are entitled to own a 4×4 and a big fat boat if that is your desire. However you seem to overlook the responsibility we as islanders and human beings have as a whole, whether we want to acknowledge this or not. Our planet, that we have tirelessly drained of resources is changing. We have to respond to this change. This does not mean we all have to become stereotypical tree hugging hippies, sit and eat tofu and contemplate a higher being. Its just a matter of respect and consideration. Everyone likes to have luxuries and no one is saying you can’t have them. It is a matter of asking yourself if you cut down on something that in large levels can lead to situation that nobody wants to deal with then why not just do it?
You may now be thinking, “Why should I change my lifestyle?” “Why should I have to cut down on something I enjoy?”. The answer is we all do, whether we like it or not. Its not a case of living in a nanny state or being dictated to. Its a case of all our ancestors over using the few resources this planet has to offer. If we do not act then the next generation may not be able to. If you want a 4×4 go buy one, but in Jersey it doesn’t take long to walk to your destination and if its that long you can always take a bus or buy a less polluting car or even car share! (drivers on Wellington Road take note). Oh and addressing your fellow Islanders as you folk is rude, you cannot enter a debate already thinking that your better than the counter argument. I am also concerned that you insinuate your too good for a sock draw or tin cans, do we all need to club together to buy you some baked beans and pop up to B&Q to get you a chest of drawers to make you feel more like the equal citizen you are?
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i hate 4×4’s . i own a really big white renault master van that is far larger than the stupid 4×4’s and i really enjoy driving it. especially when i come across a 4×4 and they are the ones struggling to hug the kerb for a change. it’s great when the boot is on the other foot. and my van won a green award for low emmissions too … so ha ha to everyone, and 4×4 drivers … i look forward to seeing you on the road.
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I have driven a real 4×4, a Mk 2 Landrover, and a few of these modern confections.
The Landrover was a nasty beast due to the absence of power anything and no one in their right mind would have choosen to drive it for fun.
However it had real off road capability and if you were prepared to clamp your jaws together to stop your teeth crashing together could be driven through a hedge at speed and over rutted and swampy ground.
The modern 4×4 is really a van suited to road use with limited off road capability. But doubtless there are a few owners who put the soundtrack music from ‘Wild At Heart’ on the stereo and as they are tootling through the green lanes they can pretend that they are on the African plains and those Jersey cows over there are buffalo…
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I know a bloke with a Hummer. He suffers from “little man” syndrome, you know the type.
Full of himself head on one side on his mobile phone while driving. He,s a first class prat and has one of the worst jobs imaginable.Still live and let live,but at the same time lets not forget the old adege of people who drive oversized vehicles are trying to make up for there tiny attributes in other areas particulaly there brains
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Will a tractor fit in an average parking space in town? Will one fit all my shopping(food/supplies for my business etc) in it? Will one take my self and a friend with all our sporting/camping gear along with with supplies for another 8 people to the UK twice this year?
I hope your getting the picture?
Will a tractor tow my box trailer and all the equipment I need to run my business in a quiet meadow’d valley with out turning it in to a bog?
I think you’ll find the answer is no! The simple fact is, there are some of us out there that do need our 4×4s to get by. So why on earth should I be singled out, pointed at and taxed for trying to make a living in different business area other than the MIGHT FINANCE industry?
Today in my lovely diesel munching, puppy killing 4×4 I joined the back of the madness that is the divert in Trinity. Would you like to know how difficult it was to get through there.
Immense!
I bet your thinking it was me and others like me coursing the problem. No it was your beloved tractors, being 2ft wider and trailing bowser’s and trailers even larger behind them. I mean these things and there were enough of them looked like they could cater for the farming needs of Dorset let alone Trinity! So you tell me which is more inappropriate for Jerseys small narrow roads?
I think its about time people that criticise 4×4s actually put their own vehicle/vehicles up. Lets see your MPG, your need for it! After all if you have no real need for the space of a big car and you don’t need it for your line of work and the kids aren’t complete obese wasters. Why have it at all?
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I love my 4×4 & love driving it & prooving to other drivers that I know exactly how long & wide my car is…. even when reversing!
You show me a ‘eco-friendly-small-car’ that will pull my horsebox up Mont Felard when it has 2 large horses in it & more to the point one heavy enough to stop when going downhill with the same 2.5 tonnes pushing it from behind and I will gladly consider trying to get more MPG from a vehicle that can still do all the jobs I want it too.
The only thing that really irritates me is when I get patronising comments usually from men congratulating me on my parking skills in our very tight work car park.
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A hilarious letter. People will own what they can afford to run and insure. What gives anyone here the right to dictate what people can and cannot do.
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Can someone please explain to me that when a product derived from oil, such as petrol or diesel is consumed in a car, the planet is doomed. Yet when the same fuel is used in a boat, such as a Sunseeker, that does in car terms 2 miles to the gallon, no one complains, and as an added bonus, such fuel is openly sold Tax Free ? Is it the tax element charged on road fuel that ‘apparently’ causes global warming ? I am somewhat confused !
What about the fuel oil that my home central heating boiler consumes. Does that not cause the same apparent damage? But no one slags off someone who heats a large house and swimming pool with causing global warming !
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OK – So the use of oil is killing the planet – So lets outlaw it use entirely unless absolutely essential!
Last year, just for the hell of it, we went on holiday to America ! Flew in a Boeing 777 and hired a car for a few days – a Pontiac with a 3.5 litre V6 engine ! Then we got on a cruise ship and went for a sail. Don’t ask me how many inches to the gallon the ship consumed, but boy we had fun ! Then we flew home again on the 777
The downside of all of this is that we apparently killed part of the planet.
The bonus was that this holiday was great fun, and costing in excess of £5,000 this money went to providing employment for others and profits for shareholders. And this my dear blinkered small minded ecologically concious friends is how the modern world that provides goods, services, education and medical services for all goes round !
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Listen…………..no one needs a 4 x 4 in Jersey to drive a couple of miles here and there,and then to cause hassel for all other “normal” car owners on the Islands small roads.
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I drive a big 4×4 as i have a bad back and the driving position suits me. I can’t after sitting low in a normal car for 20 mins or more get out very easily. Yes its bigger than I need but what else is high and has an upright driving position. I know a transit van but that must be worse, i’d rather more 4×4 than van drivers.
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Adrian- not all fishermen, builders etc. Have the space and money for a tractor and van or car. A 4X4 for them is all rolled into one. Go down to little St. Caths on a Saturday or Sunday in the summer and you will see very few boat owners using tractors.
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I have visited jersey loads of times your roads are very narrow compared to the roads over here in the uk, but having said that surely everyone has a right to drive/own whatever car they like
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Fantastic letter, anyone who says otherwise are just have a bit of the green eyed monster!!
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Mike Fry, you should try a Mercedes A class. Similar upright driving position with lots of room. The problems could be solved quite easily if the driving test were to be made renewable and valid for a particular type of vehicle eg. 4×4, sports, family saloon, midi, mini, van etc. The test would involve parking in a multi-storey, parallel to the curb and in an open carpark, driving on a country lane and reversing to allow another car to pass, and obviously at a multi junction road. This would sort out the problems of the perceived inability to handle a 4×4 and at the same time swell the coffers of the beloved (spendthrift) states of jersey, create more employment and hopefully lower insurance premiums as standards of driving were increased and less claims were made. Just a thought from a grumpy old git.
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To. GTR (30) Adolf Hitler’s preferred car of choice was a VW. To suggest that all VW drivers are of the same ilk would be ignorant, plus there are no hummers in Jersey. They are too wide, unless the law has changed. Correct me if I am wrong someone.
For Adrian, and I am really starting to like this guy as he has been giving me a good laugh recently – find me a tractor that can accomodate me, my wife, 3 kids, the dogs, as well as kayaks, surfboards, shopping etc etc, keep me dry when it rains (Oh sorry, is that being soft?) not slow down the traffic every morning when I drive along the avenue, not take up more than one space when I park it on the waterfront, I will not only buy one for me and the missus, I’ll buy you one too!
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Hitler owned a selection of Mercedes, the most photographed were the 540K and 770K models that were used in the immediate pre war and war years.
These were the so called Fuhrer cars and were heavily strengthened but he owned several ordinary models before that.
Curiously he may have been unable to drive as he always travelled by train etc until he became party leader and considerably better off when he employed a driver.
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Really Big Bean you could consider buying one as they do come up for sale from time to time. I would recommend the 770K, at 10,000lb fully loaded and 20ft long it certainly makes a 4×4 look like an 850 Mini and bags of room for your family and all their kit!
It has a 50 gallon fuel tank but at only 3mpg it is a bit on the thirsty side but plenty of range for a small island like Jersey.
One thing you can guarantee is that you would always have right of way unless the other driver was at the wheel of a small tank
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You live your life the way you want
The rest of us will live our lives the way we want whilst we make sure there will be a life for our children.
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I was beginning to change my mind about 4×4 drivers as many are courteous and take account of the space they need when baring down upon others. but then we get this letter from a person who i can only assume is one the main problems that 4×4 drivers have to contend with. The arrogant minority road hogs.
I wonder if this was the same person driving his wagon past the airport garages more than a foot over the double white lines whom i was lucky enough to spot and then swerved accordingly to avoid. My passenger nearly spoiled himself, it was a close call.
Yes, many are considerate, use them for many things yet you then come accross idiots like this and unfortunately it only helps to pigeon hole the rest.
Big Bean, on a lighter note surely you could have a trailer on the back like the ones seen carrying workers to and from the fields. Plenty of room for wife kids etc, in fact you might even be able to fit your truck on it too!
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I think we all now know that the average 4×4 is less wide than many large saloons, diesel 4×4 are more economical than many large petrol saloons, and they providing multi functional transport rather than having to buy more than one car.
Let’s move on to a meaningful topic that has basis.
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Humvees are great in the snow so there is no excuse not to get to work on time when we get 1″ of extremely dangerous slippery snow like we had last month.
Tractors come in all sizes so you can get one which is suitable for Jersey roads. They are multi purpose all terrain vehicles. They are great off road, so can actually reverse into field entrances, and as they are high up, they don’t get as dirty as 4×4’s. With their wide wheels they don’t leave ruts in soft ground which would bog a 4×4 down.
They also have a hitch at the back which can not only take a trailer of any size but they can also tow ploughs, flailers, 4×4’s, horse boxes or anything else you would wish to attatch to it, even a caravan. The more modern ones have satelite navigation to get you around when you don’t know where you are. They are air conditioned in case you have an allergy to fresh air and the wind in your hair, or don’t want your make up spoilt.
Over head caging can easily be fitted to allow those who wish to partake of a bit of surfing or canoeing. With your boat on the back you have plenty of room for your shopping to fit in, your wife and kids and any other assorted paraphenial of your choice. You can even use it to go to St.Cath’s and launch for trip to France where you will avoid all those narrow roads full of 4×4’s On arrival you can moor up and deploy your Honda 90 for a bit shopping French style.
Yes tractors have much going for them and they will outlast any 4×4 by miles. So if you want value for money, something that will blend in with the countryside and have the ability to take short cuts where all 4×4’s will fail, flexibilty to do anything, want to be different for the rest, have a laugh then a tractor’s for you.
Or on the other hand you could follow the rest of the crowd and buy a very expensive big 4×4 which looks good but gets bogged down on the first short cut across a wet field.
A small tractor will easily fit in a normal parking bay unlike some of the bigger 4×4’s.
P.S. I would rather be doing 20-30 miles an hour behind a tractor than stuck in the school run doing 1-2 miles an hour and wasting all my petrol keeping the car cool. An old farmer once gave me a good bit of advice, a tractor will always be as quick as the fastest most expensive vehicle in a traffic jam. At this rate of growth I believe the island will soon be one big traffic jam so the tractor will come into its own. I have also been told that illegally parked tractors are difficult to wheel clamp.
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4*4 have become a symbol I think, of course sunseekers are an issue too. The cars are intimidating, they’re based on truck chassis. Would you let your child bike to school (independent, healthier etc) when it means sharing the road with them? I think the rule to apply is ‘what if everyone else did that too’. I think there are people here who would be an asset to the Environment Forum and groups like that..existing in a little world where people try and live responsibly and lightly learning about peak oil and sustainability. Individuals like the letter writer prove the need for legislation and punitive taxation to protect themselves and others from destructive greed. Surely he wants the big fish to last! Bring on the no take zones and 4*4 no go parking.
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My mind is made up. I’m puting the 4×4 up for sale. And I’ve decided that I’m going to go one better than a tractor.
I’m going to buy a…….
…………Sherman Tank.
Then I really will own the road!!!
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Great for the summer chugging away in the fresh air at 5mpg, although I wouldn’t want to be behind you soaking up the plumes of black smoke….
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Adrian – you’re not a tractor salesman are you?
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At least nobody’s moaning about my 164mph Porsche!!!
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When all of the, correctly identified, old Volvo drivers can suggest a better way to transport a family of four and a dog plus the associated paraphernalia in comfort and safety be it on a trip to the beach or a holiday through France (which I think you will find is more environmentally friendly than jetting off every eight weeks) – then I’ll take it.
Whilst were at it how about a method of public transport along the Avenue from ‘out West’ that would do away with the ridiculous traffic jams. Whether these consisted of Hummers or Fiat 500’s it still probably causes more environmental damage for one hour of the morning than all of the 4×4’s for the rest of the day. Lets go monorail!
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oh my god……listen to yourselves. Nobody, i repeat nobody has the right to say what car you can own. It just brings it home how petty minded people can be. That goes with living on a small island with nothing better to do. Well guess what, after 36 years of living on the rock…..i left:) Only Jersey can come up with something like this, sad:( Get on with your lives and deal with more important things like the drug and drinking problems, child abuse, adult abuse,etc etc
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I am concerned at the number of bigoted people we appear to have in our society. Intolerance is dangerous and it not controlled leads to the blind hatred so expertly harvested by the extremists and anarchists who want to destroy our society.
The justification that if people don’t need something they should not be allowed to have it is both hollow and hypocritical. How many of people expressing this view can do an honest audit of their lives and state that they don’t have the enjoyment of anything that is not essential for life. Most will have PC’s, big TV’s, take foreign holidays, play golf or at some time in their lives bought something so the fun of it.
Many people enjoy driving so lets live and let live.
The world is becoming a very sad place so next time you see a “big” 4×4 stuck in a small country lane offer the driver a smile. And to all you 4×4 drivers do the same next time you see some sucker in a large estate or fancy sports car struggling to park their oversized vehicle or sliding on ice. Don’t worry – be happy.
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OK guys, we have all had a rant about 4×4’s,(and without fuelling the debate, I would include those boxy ‘People Carriers’ in this category!) it’s surely time to decide what is the ideal car for Jersey. It must not give rise to offensive commants, and should be virtually invisible ….
And in my book, it has to be the Mercedes C class / BMW 3 Series / Audi A4 in ‘Touring’ estate form.
These cars are extreemly popular in Jersey and provided their owners with a very well engineered vehicle, that is fast, easy to drive while providing adequate accomodation. They are generally very well driven and go about their daily duties without hardly being noticed ! And some of the models come with seriously large engines !
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Hi Victor M
I have tried an A-Class and I found it terrible, some on the worst seats ever, even my old series II land rover was better. However a skills test for the car you drive would be good, I think all drivers should go on a skid pan, to lean about ice, wet weather and learn the limits of their cars. Also learn the width of your car and practicing car park parking would also be a great idea.
Mike
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Having read most of these comments it seems to me that everyone is missing the point here. The reason that 4×4s are so damaging is their relatively large out put of CO2. My Honda Civic chugs out around 135g/CO2 per km – a Land Rover Defender emits double that per km. Emissions from cars are a major element in global warming. It’s not about freedom of choice when it comes to modes of transport, it’s about whether we survive or not and from the discussion above I don’t think we deserve to. Remember this: your child’s future is under your right foot.
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and someone – i drive a 125cc motorbike and if i need to transport something i use a work van and yes it is great to see the 4×4 drivers shouting at you when they actually have to stick to their lane lol
and Big Bean – you always make me smile
As one of the few people who can drive a 4×4 properly (i’m taking your word for it that you managed devonshire place without any issues) i can’t wait to see you in that tractor!
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Terry by all means have things that make you happy but please don’t do anything to upset others. As far as I am concerned people can do what they want until it impacts on others then they can’t. It is as simple as that, no, ifs, buts or maybes we all have a duty to be considerate of others and not do as we wish to the detriment of others. This is why the planet is in a mess. We have too many greedy self centred people whose only reason for existance is to look after themselves and line their own pockets to the detriment of all other living creatures.
Just look at the state of the planet, animals are dying out due to mans stupidity and greed. When we have polluted and destroyed the whole planet in the name of progress and capitalism we ourselves will die out as we will not be able to live in a toxic environment. What use will fast cars be then? Why should others suffer so a few can enjoy themselves and do what they want. Come on everybody wake up and look around you, it is no point burying your heads in the sand we are in for big problems and the only way we will avoid them is if we are lucky enough to die before we are affected. If you are too self centred to change your attitudes then think of your children’s children, if you still aren’t bothered then you are of no benefit to the majority of the planet’s life forms. Remember all life is dependent on life for existance. A food chain will not work with just one or two species unless you go in for recycling!
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There are! hummers in Jersey! You need to open your eyes big bean.There are a lot of DIVS on mobile phones too at the wheel which “nobody” seems to notice.Im seeing 20 to 30 a day approx, potential accidents or even death.
Yesterday was a woman in a Nissan 4×4 going along st clements gabbing away head on one side.
There was a police car directly behind me at the time,im astonished they didnt see it yet i did.
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In my experience the worst culprits on the road for non-indicating / road hogging/ inconsiderate parking etc are the taxi drivers, not 4×4 owners. I have yet to encounter a problem with the latter, yet have many bad experiences from taxi drivers, including nearly being killed by a lane-swapping non-indicating taxi driver whilst I was on my bike a few years ago.
Arrogant in the extreme and so complacent in their driving to the point that they actually become bad drivers, it summed them up a couple of years back when they planned to actually blockade Broad Street just because they could not get their own way. “Spoilt little children” is the term that springs to mind…
Is this just my personal experience or do others agree?
I don’t have a 4×4 but if I ever win the lottery then I’ll be shopping for one of those ‘Torchwood’-style big black monster vans, fully tinted windows and about 5mpg. And yes, I may even wear my sunglasses whilst driving it – even when it is cloudy!!
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GTR – Are you sure? I spend a lot of time on the road every day and I’ve never seen one and I would have noticed as they are my favourite vehicle. I once drove one across Africa many years ago.
When I last checked with DVS I know they were not allowed in at one stage due to their width, they come in at about 35cm wider than your Rangerover. Maybe the rules have changed.
GTR, are the 20-30 drivers you see everyday on mobile phones all in 4×4’s or are you just wanting to mention the one lady in the Nissan. I am a bit concerned that you seem to be preoccupied with what other drivers are doing rather than keeping your eyes on the road. Be careful, it might be you that causes an accident.
Lula, God bless you. We might disagree on somethings but at least we still have our humour!
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excellent letter well said that man. Also love the comments I too would love to have a sherman tank then we can own the road together ! if not well a tractor will do then I can drive at 10 mph and miff off all those sport cars which are worse then the 4×4’s !
roll on the summer I think I may hire a bus and just go for a drive just too see what happens what do you think folks ?
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I don’t know what the problem is. I own a huge gas guzzling BMW 7 series that does 12mpg and I can swish past all the rest of you in my yuppy stripy shirt and shades attached to the top of my head. When I meet a little mini in a country lane even that tiny foot print ain’t gonna squeeze past my wide monster. I can chuckle as I sit there and wait for them to reverse as I know it’s far easier for them to do so.
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Wow, how small minded people can be, I own a gas guzzling 66′ Land Rover and I dont give a dam what any one thinks about it, Its not a status symbol as some people suggest, I find its a safer drive than any of these plastic cars people pay mega bucks for! If my Landrover breaks down 99% of the time I can fix it myself without the need of plugging it in to a computer to find out whats wrong with it!
People who drive cars / people carriers should really learn to drive them selves before slagging down the 4×4 owners in this Island!
Bottom line is, I love my gas guzzler to bits and I’, not getting arid of it because some tree huggers are throwing their toys out of the pram regarding 4×4’s!
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I laugh at the 4×4s. Last year they paid £50,000 for their shiney mercedes, this year they still owe £40,000 on the finance deal and the vehicle is worth £15,000 because these are depreciating faster than RBS profits.
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“I’m alright Jack” about sums Jersey up these days. As long as I’m alright it doesn’t matter if others get put out. Yes I think maybe a tank would be a good thing then those inconsiderate drivers can be taught some manners and road sense. When up narrow country lanes the one nearest a pull in should reverse not the one the farthest away, or have people not got any common sense, or are they incompent drivers or are they too lazy? Tick the appropriate box(es).
The driving over here is appalling just this morning I was driving along the road when some clown decided to over take a dust cart coming onto my side of the road to do so, he was then follwed by some more clowns who must have seen me coming but couldn’t be bothered to wait. It is this inconsiderate types of people who make driving not a very nice experience. Maybe if others drive with more consideration we all would have a better day? Maybe if those who didn’t need to drive in the traffic hour took their cars off the road things would improve? Unfortunately no one has the gumption to think of solutions to problems as they believe it is up to others to sort out.
As regards the environment ignore it at your peril and when there are major problems maybe you’ll be laughing on the other side of your face.
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I own a 4×4 a i would to say i’ve proven that i can drive and park it better then some people with smaller cars even minis, my 4×4 releases less CO2 emissions then alot of this small beaten up hatches backs that are driving around the island, i got stuck in a green lane, notn due to my driving but due to a driver of honda jazz worried about stratching thier car.
i would like to say if people would just more consideration to each other then this wouldn’t be a problem, but i agree the “supermums” with the MPVs and 4×4s and one kid they drive me up the wall, they can’t drive them and believe cause their car is big they own the road its not the car at fault its the driver.
i need the the 4×4 for what i do and so does the other half.
Everyone just needs to learn to show consideration to other raod users not blame people with 4×4s (in a salon) i was forced of the road by a escort explain that one!
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The safest way to drive is to watch what others are doing.As you know its a bit like a battlefield out there.I have been driving over 20 years without a hiccup and can park a car of anytype within millimeteres of a wall but not once have i miscalculatered. You have to drive well to have colour coded bumpers without a single hairline scratch on them which i do.
“Yes”,i have utmost confidence in myself! which is best illustrated by the wife i have on my arm who never leaves my side.When im going for my country walk and the middle aged balding man drives past with his green eyed monster eyes i rest assured that its not the car 4×4 or money that has to “buy” you what you want.Its the self confidence, charm & wit that gets you what you need everytime.
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After having to replace my wing mirror on my car no less then 10 times, because of it being hit while parked outside my house (no one ever stops, (thugs)) i have come to the valid conclusion this is all the fault of 4×4 drivers.
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Wow, We’ve now moved on from my car is better than yours to my wife is prettier!
Is this debate actually going anywhere now. Half the comments are being repeated, nothing new has been said for a number of days now, and to be honest not a jot has been achieved apart from a lot of bitchiness and prejudiced comments.
72 posts about parents collecting their kids from school. Really? Are there not more important things to worry ones mind over.
To whoever moderates this forum….I vote that this correspondence is now closed and we all move on.
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P Jee is funny. Buy from the UK – you can get a nice new shiney merc 4×4 for the price of a Mondeo family saloon, complete with pose factor and free shades.
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How many times have I come across some stupid woman in a 4×4 that can reverse it, park it, or even drive it down a road without looking scared. What she has done, is join the rest of 4×4 drivers who think that they are something else. They are definately something else!!!!!! but it can’t be mentioned here.
It seems that a lot of 4×4s are owned by people who would like to think that they are someone, but at the end of the day they are nobody. They get up in the morning, get their one child ready for school and get in their big oversized 4×4 and drive them to school, then go back home and watch the TV.
A lot of people in Jersey seem to be quite shallow, but these people seem to think that a 4×4 will fill that hole.
I live across the road from a family that have two 4×4s another car that has a huge engine, and they only have two kids.
I know that we should have the choice of what we should buy, but people that buy 4×4s that don’t need to are wasting our natural resources. We are all wasting natural resources, but people with the snobbish behaviour are wasting even more.
4×4s should be banned in Jersey
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Bravo! I love my 4×4 too, it sits outside my Jersey home like a shining beacon to Jersey capitalism and unfairness, my Jersey children are learning my Jersey ways and we all finding new ways to blow raspberries to the EU and anybody who dares to critisise our unreasonable and unfair practices!
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I’m a car driver and i have not only seen some people that cant drive 4×4’s but also car drivers. I think that this has been blown all out of proportion sad to say. If 4×4’s werent sitting pretty on garages forecourts, then nobody would have them so to speak, you cant blame people from buying them. They are safer than cars because of their size and yes i agree, some people do look down on you when your driving, but these guys make it bad for the kinder people that do use their 4×4’s for what their meant to be used for. I was driving down Green Street one busy day with a 4×4 to the left hand side of me, now this guy cut right in front of my car to get into a parking space on my side, very ignorant but to be honest i couldnt have been bothered to blast my horn at him or have ago, i just felt pity for him for having such manners, he couldnt have been brought up properly. Otherwise, the island is that over populated now, more vehicles being on the road, who is to blame for all of this? Its not going to get any better but alot worse! People multiply, Jersey is going to be a minature Japan by the time its finished with more vehicles on the roads more houses being built and more pollution being breathed in by all of us. Eat healthily, great but what about all this dirty air we are breathing in over here.
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Perhaps you should take a lesson from Sark..horse & traps or bicycles only. Think of how the roses would benefit.
When we lived on the Cotes du Nord, my late wife would walk the kids into town, pushing a pram.
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I think the wider issue is people’s driving, regardless of whether they are in a 4×4 or not. People that think the white line in the middle of the road is only a general guide, that indicators are an optional extra and parking lights (if any) are sufficient at dusk or dawn are the real dangers to our roads. It’s not only 4×4 users that need to take a skills test. And no … I don’t drive a 4×4. Me and my family of 3 manage perfectly well in a Toyota Yaris. (Kids really don’t need half the toy box if they are going out for a few hours)
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For people like farmers and fisherman a 4×4 can be very useful but to those who don’t need one something seems to happen when they get behind the wheel of these monsters. It is the same what happens to policeman when they drive a police car
It is to do with ego,power and status. You can see it in their facial expressions when passing them
I have arrived/move over/I drive this and don’t care about anyone else/I own this road/ I am loaded etc
Perhaps the fact that they sit much higher than other drivers has an effect on them
I used to love driving into the car park of Vic College in my 15 yrs old yellow,rusty, roofracked Vauxhall Astra and watch the faces of drivers of some of these monsters. One night while collecting my sons from a musical event I almost ran over the bailiff because the demister had packed up and I couldn’t see him. As a family of four we managed very well with it. I grew up in the Netherlands and my parents had eight children and no car. We all had bikes and managed to go anywhere we wished in all sorts of weather
I suspect the recession will sort some of these show offs out and force them into more moderate behaviour. Each day there are more large cars for sale in the JEP and I suspect some will be owned by people who have commented here. I am sure it hurts their egos
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How many times have I come across some ignoramous in a porsche, audi a8 or jag who can’t reverse it or park it. The roads here are narrow and they shouldn’t be allowed.
Not only that porsches, audi a8s and jags have heavy fuel consumption and damage the environment. I am sure it is to do with ego and status and nothing to do with the fact that they may like these cars. I am sure they could manage equally as well on a bicycle and some weatherproofs.
The amount of times I have had my wing mirror clipped outside my house. I have come to the valid conclusion it must be a porsche, audi a8 or a jag.
There’s no need for these cars in an Island this small. Porches, audi a8’s and jags should be banned in Jersey.
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I can’t see why anyone would think that a 4×4 is some sort of status symbol. Now that the car forecourts are crowded with them any one can have one. They’ve all gone a bit Burberry!
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I think the recession and rising oil prices will see the end of the big 4×4.
In 10 – 15 years time there will still be some rusting ones around for boat pulling etc but as a silly fashion statement they will have gone the way of flairs and chest medallions for men.
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I doubt it Pip as most of they use less juice than flashy sports cars – they’ll be first to go.
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Hi John,
It will be very interesting to see what will be on the roads of the island in ten years’ time. It all depends on the price of oil and the economic situation then. The flashy sports cars and the big 4×4’s are piling up on the garage forecourts in the second-hand market at the moment. My latest car is a second-hand hatch back and honestly I got it for a song. The previous owner was trading down to something cheaper and a lot less thirsty. If you like the idea of a big 4-litre jeep then the next few years could be the time to get one.
Manufacturers are offering lovely discounts and there are mint condition examples going in the second hand market. Quite what it will cost to fill it up and its resale value in 2015 is a moot point.
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I have just bought a new car. I had to get something that would suit all my needs as I can’t afford 2 cars and be economically viable to run.
I found a great value 4×4 which will serve the purpose for what i need it for, and it is costing far cheaper to run than the car I used to have.
To purchase, it was a couple fo £1000 cheaper than the small hatchback my mother bought.
In short, it is cheaper for me to drive my 4×4 than my other car which was a normal family saloon. and a status symbol is most certainly is not! If i can afford one, so could most people. I think just about blows your arguement out the window Pip.
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I must admit to having an aversion to buying new cars despite being able to afford one quite easily.
I tend to shop around and find something that is a few years old but in excellent condition.
You really do save on the depreciation and I am the archetypal mean bean!
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Surely you can see that Mr Caree’s letter was taking the proverbial! Are 4×4 drivers also completely gullible?
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There’s some great deals on 4×4s at the moment. Most people can’t buy a large saloon and a small run around, so have to plump for a single MPV as it is just that, multi purpose. And has the advantage of being economical through diesel and only paying one set of insurance.
Despite that daft article in the JEP by a misinformed journalist, if you park next to any large saloon you are likely to have less room to open your door than if you were parked next to an average 4×4. I expect that there will be more diesel MPV/4×4s over the next few years as buyers go for the long term economic solution though a discounted model and hang on to it.
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