SEVENTEEN employees at Ogier have this week been told to leave the business.
The staff affected include six lawyers, three legal secretaries and eight business support workers. The legal and fiduciary services firm says it has recently completed an efficiency review and that this has resulted in ‘a few small changes’.
In a statement, the management said: ‘Where the review affected our people we explored a number of options to minimise the impact – options included transferring some of our people from one business to another and retraining and reskilling.
‘As a result of the review we have made a few small changes in our business to ensure we are being as efficient as possible as well as providing our clients with the levels of service they would expect from a leading offshore professional services firm.’
The statement says that the 17 employees will be given ‘generous’ compensation packages and helped to find other work.
Article posted on 20th June, 2009 - 2.59pm
38 Article Comments
If 17 jobs is a few small changes I’d hate to see a major review.
Hopefully they are all J cats and no local people have lost their jobs – yeah right!
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up to 30 people in one week looking for a new job.
both blue collar and white collar.
more of the same to come?
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Weren’t they were factoring in fee growth of 25% pa to justify the cost of the new building? Looks pie in the sky now!
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Willie
Having been made redundant myself I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, J cat or not. In fact I have immense sympathy for J cats who have moved to our lovely island, then find themselves not only out of a job, but with housing issues and a frequently hostile local population.
I’m local as it happens – but in my five years working in London I never heard anyone moan that I was stealing their jobs!
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I am afraid they included locals. They should never be allowed any j -cats in the future.
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Two things spring to mind. It is, firstly, revealing that this firm regards 17 people losing their respective livelihoods as a trifling matter. No problem for the firm, perhaps, but what about the poor individuals concerned?
Secondly, it is remarkable that the firm’s press release apparently flew in the face of common decency and took the opportunity at this time to self promote the firm as a “leading offshore professional services firm”.
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I remember when Ogier fired 4 people at the end of last year they said it was unrelated to the credit crunch but simply because those people did not measure up to Ogier’s high standards.
They certainly know how to do PR!
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The management for these firm live in a detached secretary doing everything for them alternate reality. Being without a job means nothing to them as they are earning so much a gap in work seems nothing. All th epoeple unemployed will now have to re enter conjected job market filled out with cheap immigrants .
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They were told to leave from one day to the other. Without notice. No workers rights – no social security net – no social approach at all. We are still stuck in the 19th century it seems. I wonder what the “‘generous’ compensation” is. No word of redundancy payments, which would be a legal obligation everywhere else in Western Europe.
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People in London will not be heard to moan that incomers are stealing their jobs. That is because London is big.
Jersey, on the other hand, is small. Discrimination against the locals is rife.
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I can confirm that the seventeen were given very good compensation packages and also support to enable them to find other employment. Those that have lost their jobs include a number of qualified lawyers who were put through their exams at considerable expense by the company, the others are back room staff whose roles were being either dispensed with or no longer required.
It’s common practice in the legal and accountancy business to give student employees several chances to pass their exams, however if they do not manage to pass on the second or sometimes third attempt then they are let go.
Knowing the facts before passing comment is always helpful.
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I remember Ogier being the first employer to which I applied for work after graduating from University. Weeks after the interview they eventually sent a very terse e-mail saying that they would not be offering me a position. It would seem that there really is no accounting for taste! NJ.
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Some of the comments above beggar belief. Should organisations such as Ogier guarantee jobs for life? If you believe they should, go and live in a communist country. If Ogier decided to run themselves as a charity rather than as a business, as many of these posters appear to think, then they would go bust very quickly and far more than 17 jobs would be lost. And what does Michel (#9) think that that the compensation is, if not a monetary pay-out, i.e. redundancy pay? Their reputation is too high locally to risk not treating their employees – both current and ex – properly. And no, I’m not an Ogier partner, in fact I work for one of their competitors.
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John the second, if only people who actually knew what they were talking about sent comments to this column, there wouldn’t be many entries.
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John’s comment regarding exams is odd, given the fact that he would appear to refer to Jersey law exams. There are a number of lawyers within the firms who have arrived from England and elsewhere and who have no intention of sitting those exams. These people are not qualified to practice Jersey law [refer to the Law Society rules] and yet are, perversely, not exposed to the risk of taking the local exams.
Predictably, the policy which John describes has the effect of discriminating against locals (who must, by the way, already be qualified in English law in order to be able to sit the local exams).
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Mike,
I can confirm that being in London I have been told that I was ’stealing lcoals jobs’.
As an Australian backpacker years ago to London, I was regularly, and seriously harassed for stealing ‘locals’ jobs.
So mate, sorry, but you are wrong, London are the typical Pom – whingers!
Aussie Lad
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Comment 4 Mike – my heart bleeds for J-cats, they get a relocation allowance and all removals expenses paid to come here. They pay little if any rent whilst here, some don’t even pay for electricity, oil, water or rates. Their salary is adjusted to allow for the increased cost of living that they don’t pay, and they rent out their UK homes whilst here.
The states are now issuing unlimited J cats that don’t have an expiration date. This means that they can live here for 10 years rent free whilst their UK mortgages are paid by their tenants.At which point they are locally qualified ( 10 years for J cats remember ) and then buy a house with the money they weren’t spending on rent.
Yep, you gotta feel sorry for the J Cats.
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John the second (#12): You pretend to be an insider of Ogier. You lecture and give yourself the aura of high standards. Do you have authority to claim what you claimed? If so, you and your employer ought to reveal your identity! Why hiding? Everything else is propaganda.
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If you include the four lawyers they pushed out earlier that is 10 in total that have gone in a short period of time. It doesn’t sound that much but I reckon that is 15% or so of those based in Jersey. In the current job market they will unfortunately find it very hard to get a new position.
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Eight track dave
John’s comments are even odder as most law firms don’t want staff to pass the local exam unless the staff are partnership potential. Becoming a Jersey advocate means you go on the tour de role and have to do free legal aid for 15 years – an expense most firms want to avoid, particularly if the staff are in a field of law (basically, anything other than litigation) where being Jersey qualified is fairly irrelevant.
It would also be interesting if he could confirm how many staff Ogier have let go this year before this announcment.
Yes, knowing the facts before passing comment is very helpful.
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Bound to happen eventually wasn’t it. Hardly any structured finance or investment funds work. They and the others will say there is, but there isn’t.
I feel sorry for the 17 affected. I have pals at Ogier. Hope its not any of them.
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‘am afraid they included locals. They should never be allowed any j -cats in the future.’
If you want to be that pathetic then I reckon UK firms should block incomers from Jersey taking our jobs! Xenophobia will never get you anywhere, there as likely more Jersey born people working in England than the other way round. In face one of my colleagues is from Jersey and I would never wish for her to lose her job.
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‘I can confirm that being in London I have been told that I was ’stealing lcoals jobs’.
‘As an Australian backpacker years ago to London, I was regularly, and seriously harassed for stealing ‘locals’ jobs’
As a pomme who has worked in bars in Sydney I got the same treatment from Autralians but soon realised people were joking with me… JOKING… get over yourself.
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No.15
I too worked in London (a few years ago now), but I never even met any people from London whilist there. I worked in a very large hotel and the staff were from all over England, Scotland and Wales, there were lots of Phillipinos working as chambermaids and porters etc., Nobody ever said I was taking a job away from them.
I do think we should definitely get something sorted out on the redundancy side of things and may be get some help from the Social while looking for work, I know I found it very hard when I was made redundant a couple of years ago.
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Strange I don’t recall or see where I mentioned local exams !!!
Ogier put a hell of lot of money into training their staff, and like all companies of a similar ilk, would expect a return from those exams. If that’s not forthcoming would you expect them to continually payout ?
485 people in Jersey depend on their livelihood from Ogier, would you expect any company to gamble with that or take the difficult option of laying off a % to secure the future of the other and Company/Partnership ?
Michel, why is it so important that I reveal my identity, I do have a link to the Company but I am not their official spokesman or propagandist. In fact when the announcement was made I was one a few who asked questions of the management, so I am commenting from a perspective of knowing some of the facts and not going on hearsay or whispers.
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It is not just Ogier that has been making people redundant, it is happening all around the world and I am surprised to see that people think it can’t or shouldn’t happen in Jersey. Face reality and see it as a difficult business decision that had to be made. There is no point having staff that are well paid, sitting there doing nothing all day. Not just for the business, but the people as well. Whether those being let go are “local” or “J-Cat” each and every one of these people have contributed to make this community what it is today. There shouldn’t be any differentiation between them as they are all employed to do a job and the best person should retain the position, regardless. I do not work in this industry, but do think people should see this for what it is and that is a fact of life for everyone employed in any industry during this difficult time.
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Aussie Lad, what tends to p**s off people in London most about antipodean accountants and the like over there is how the set up personal service companies pretending they are contractors for tax purposes (even thought they are working for one company) and blatantly evade IR 35 and their tax dues. I can see why you might have made landfall in Jersey!
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Nice comment foetus.
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Ogier are stuggling because they expanded way too fast and with hindsight, way too late. Don’t believe any press releases about levels of service! They took on loads of staff and have a brash new building to pay for. Leaving little option but to cut costs.
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#28 Jeezlouise
Wasnt Ogier one of the first law firms to merge in Cayman? Too fast and too late, I think you should have all the facts before writing nonsense. Ogier is not a charity but a business and can not keep people on just so its not seen as a bad thing to “outsiders” as you sound like you are. Too many people have their own views, keep them to yourself unless you know the full truth about the story.
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Headline “new law will bring flood of work” I guess they’ll be able to mop it up then…
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mad foetus how can lawyers qualified in UK law be of much use in Jersey when Jersey has its own laws independent of the UK? For example on the property side would it is not be good to know the difference between an English foot and a Jersey foot. Is it a case of near enough is good enough?
If a J-cat losses their job since they are so marvellous it shouldn’t be a problem for them to get a new one should it? Whereas a poor local person needs all the help they can get, well thats according to some of this site who seem to think local are unable to do these high powered J-cat jobs.
Marge one question for you, which family will have given more to Jersey? Someone here five years with no ties to the island, or someone born here who has also done five years but whose whole family has contributed over the generations? As per short term input it could possible be the newbie but as per long term there can only be one answer can’t there.
Having said that it is ashame for anyone to lose a job especially in today’s economic down turn. However J-cats always have the choice of home should they need it.
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The simple answer to that most of the lawyers employed over here are involved in cooking up offshore finance type activity.
The practice of law that is relevant to the island eg sale of property, contracts, wills, criminal law etc is a relatively unprofitable niche activity.
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Adrian,
Pip has answered the point.
But the difference between UK property law and Jersey property law is much wider than the difference between UK banking or M&A law and the Jersey law in the same area.
As most Jersey law firms service an international clientele, the transaction management skills you typically learn in a London magic circle firm are more relevant than knowing your fosses from your reliefs.
And of course, this offshore activity finances legal aid, which is provided gratis by the benevolent profession.
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I have just learnt of this terrible news. I have since telephoned an insider at Ogier. From what I have been told, it is a mixture of part time local women with young children working reduced hours in knowledge management and foreign lawyers. I suspect that it is mainly staff who neither generate work nor provide a business case to remain employed. I wonder what the founding partners are thinking and whether or not the equity partners would be willing to reduce their £1 million plus drawings or make a capital contribution.
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The fact remains that the english lawyers are not qualified in Jersey law. they cannot sign an order of justice nor witness an affidavit or conduct any form of proceedings. Yes, their role might be important but they are also here under the supervision of the jersey advocates and solicitors. The day that this changes will be the day when the tail wags the dog!!
JCategories are supposed to train locals as part of their contract. Does this happen? Pigs might fly!
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It’s not the fact of those 17 being ‘told to leave’ its the way they went about it… maybe they need to get in touch with Rathbone and as at least they had warning… and then to go on about the ‘New building’ in the press statement beggers belief, if there was growth in Ogier why did they let 17 go! thats a contradiction.
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Morris,
The fact is that most lawyers never see litigation in their whole career. Banking, collective investment funds, M&A and structured finance are what drives the Island and what matters for those are technical and case management expertise. Being Jersey qualified is a drawback in general, because it makes you subject to the legal aid burden – basically it brings a cost to your firm of around £150k a year.
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