Lloyds TSB/HBOS Islands’ banking director Martin Fricker
UP to 180 jobs in Jersey are to go at the Lloyds banking group – just under a third of the 600 the group employs in the Island.
It was confirmed today that the posts at Lloyds TSB and Halifax Bank of Scotland will be axed over the next 2½ years. The two banks merged last year after a UK government rescue package.
The Halifax Bank of Scotland International branch in New Street will close, but all Lloyds TSB branches will remain open. Jersey will bear the brunt of 240 job cuts across the offshore islands by the end of 2011. However, the group says that compulsory redundancies will be ‘a last resort’.
Lloyds TSB/HBOS Islands’ banking director Martin Fricker said that there would be a phased approach to the job reductions though ‘natural attrition’, redeployment elsewhere in the group and voluntary redundancy.
‘I do regret that there will be a reduction of roles as a consequence of the merger of Lloyds TSB and HBOS in the islands,’ he said. ‘It is inevitable that bringing two organisations together will result in duplicated roles.’
Article posted on 24th June, 2009 - 3.00pm
56 Article Comments
Ouch, that’s a body blow for local bank staff and not a good time to be looking for work. No surprises though as mergers/acquisitions inevitably result in job cuts in addition to the current downturn.
I hope that they all find work but it’s a lot of people to find jobs for.
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Life enriching???
Perhaps its time for a rethink on that farcical statement.
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All these people losing their jobs can personally “thank” Sir Victor Blank and Eric Daniels for costing them their livelihoods with their illconceived takeover of the insolvent HBOS.
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Lets build a world class finance centre on the waterfront for our thriving finance industry.
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Youch!
On the “plus” side, they will not be loosing their jobs instantaneously.
Hope the job market place can swallow them up.
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Annie – are you willing the Island into decline? These are real people losing their jobs and a lot of suffering. The last thing we need now is gloom mongers spreading despair. What small jurisdiction has an alternative industry to finance? Even Hongkong and Gibraltar with their spectacular locations are finance centres. And remember finance is a two way service where all parties gain – That is why Communist China retained Hongkong as an offshore centre. Like it or not Finance is the heart of the global economy which is why recent events in the finance industry has had such severe repercussions on all sectors and all nations, both developed and third world.
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As with all acquisitions there will, as it has been pointed out previously, naturally be duplications of roles and the need to reduce headcount but I am disappointed that the press has negated the fact that the bank has also announced these reductions are due to take place over the next 2 ½ years with around 10 planned role reductions up to the end of 2009.
This said the newly formed Lloyds Banking Group only three months ago headlined the national financial press with news that it intended to increase the international banking customer base by 40% over the next three years and this will reversely create the need for more head count again.
When Lloyds and TSB merged the press jumped on the fact that 100 jobs were due to be lost however not 1 person was made redundant due to natural attrition and newly formed roles as part of the merger because banking platforms etc were not compatible, those created roles then naturally led the staff at risk of redundancy into other parts of the bank as people left naturally! I hope this is a similar scenario and that the many staff that are at risk are not unduly worried by headline numbers obviously designed to cover a worst case scenario, plus at least they are being upfront about it!
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GTR – I suggest that if you don’t like recession and unemployment you should move to somewhere that is immune to both.
I’ll update you all later when I have identified the place.
In the meantime I can think of worse places to be made unemployed – try Ireland or Iceland, or half the Western Hemisphere.
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I suspect that there will be a slow but steady shake out over the next few years as banks cut staff to boost profitability and pay off some of the hefty liabilities thay have been left with as a result of the credit crunch.
Now where is Plan B?
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“Lets build a world class finance centre on the waterfront for our thriving finance industry.”
– Annie du Feu
To which “thriving” finance industry does Ms du Feu refer?
How can our finance industry be “thriving” when 180 people are about to lose their livelihoods?
The mind boggles.
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Annie they had better hurry up then! If they take too long there mightn’t be any need for it.
Hopefully most will either:-
be nearing retirement so will be getting out of the rat race;
be transfering back to the UK into another job there;
be thinking of emmigrating to pastures new;
be thinking of going into a new career in a different field;
be thinking of going back to university to do more studying:
about to leave to go travelling around the world;
have a rich spouse.
I hope the ones who haven’t got these sort of choices will be able to find a new job, however in this economic climate I wouldn’t bank on it. I wonder what Senator Ozouf thinks about this?
Its where you get these sort of job losses from one company you begin to realise that having all your eggs in one basket leaves you somewhat exposed to outside market forces.
Dave is right a lot of people are going to pay for bad decisions with their livelihoods. I wonder what they think of their management now?
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But hang on – we are also just about to “spend” £44 million. Not on a declining finance sector surely, but if not, then on what and why exactly are we spending this money at all??
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Unfortunately you always get this when companies merge as some of the roles are duplicated – although at the time when they actually sign the contracts they assure everyone that their jobs are safe – only because they want the business to keep on running and then when the time is right for them they start axing jobs.
So what is our £44M going to buy for these people – is a finance office in the Far East going to provide jobs for them?
No thought has been given by the Economics Dept as to providing jobs for white collar workers (over the protests of a minority of States Members who were farsighted enough to see this coming). Much in the same way as very little thought has been given to creating new jobs for all the trainees that will be coming out of Highlands following re-training.
This has already been tried (and failed) in France where they paid employers to take on unemployed people and train them on but once they were trained they fired them and started training new people so the people who were fired went on to train in another job…..who footed the bill for all this training? The longsuffering taxpayer of course! The point of this story is that you need to create jobs and then train people to fill those roles or at least train people to fill gaps in the job market.
We need to be bankrolling new local businesses – tax cuts, whatever – to get them up and running and providing an alternative to finance. Come on you entrepreneurs and budding businessmen – where are you? Interest rates are low – this is a great time to be starting up something that will give people value for money or save them money.
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Magnolio Man
Do you not know what sarcasm is? Annies remark is refering to the expansion plans of the “civil servants”.
Jersey attracted business to the island, not through fancy buildings , but through a client service that was relevant in its day. Today it is the corporates who are riding the wave and the private client is still there but has a life span I’m afraid.
Does anyone know who’s actually in charge here?
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Hello??!! People of Jersey, the recession is global not just in your little island. I love some of the comments on here, ones that seem to suggest that any ‘foreign’ employees can go home and get a job… of course they can because the British and the European economies are booming. News flash, those places beyond your shores (you know where it says:’there be dragons ere’ on those maps you use) are shedding jobs left right and centre and the dole cues increase by the day. You really do all live in your own little world don’t you.
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This was inevitable. It is only a question of time before others announce similar job losses. After announcements from Hawksford, Ogier and unreported redundancies at others, it looks very bad. Will the last person to leave Jersey please remember to turn off the light switch could soon be the headline in the JEP. We will invariably see job losses in excess of 4,000 by the end of this year, property prices falling by 20-30% and every fourth shop in King Street empty.
It is now all about preservation – keeping ones job, house and savings. It is unlikely that any real recovery will happen until 2012 after the effect of the pension fiasco and the credit derivative swaps disaster. At this stage, the average salary in Jersey will be less than £25,000 and the average property will be worth just above £150,000.
The immediate future is very grim – I am afraid. I am selling everything and buying gold before it doubles in value.
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Think twice, employ local!
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Mike! other places dont show off & swagger around claiming to be “Life enriching”.
As for going to live elsewhere i am in the process of selling up & doing just that.
I cannot “swallow” the Jersey attitude any longer.
Full of wannabees,that will have to return there Bmw,s & Minis to the finance company.
My sympathy to the genuine folk but at the same time there are a few smug champagne charlies due to hit the ground.
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Whilst I have every sympathy for those that have are to lose their jobs at Lloyds TSB in Jersey – the essential truth is that with out the support of the UK tax payer last year all the staff at the bank (and indeed also those at the Nat West/RBS and HBOS group) would have lost their jobs many months ago.
The world wide economic recession/ the banking crises is without doubt the direct result of greedy incompetent senior bankers who took unacceptable risks with depositors and share holders money, whilst unforgivably adopting a risk averse strategy with the wealth creators of the economy -small businesses.
As most independent business people will confirm when the majority of the UK owned banks received vital and vast amounts of support from the UK Government (the tax payer) – in order that they could stay in business they failed to pass on that support. The vital support in the the form of lending to viable growth potential businesses – particularly flexible working overdraft facilities has not mirrored the support given by the tax payer. I say shame on the directors of the banks for their policy of selfishness and greed.
Bankers appear to adopt a practice of contempt backed by the knowledge that if things go pear-shaped a government bail-out will be available, there is virtually no limit to the risks bankers will take financial marketplaces that people fine incomprehensible yet suffer the effects when the bankers fail with a heads they get the profits, tails the taxpayers pay for the losses attitude.
The fact is that the short and medium term outlook for the finance industry in Jersey is gloomy; this despite the curiously over optimistic and crassly flawed utterances of those within the industry who have only known good times and appear in denial as to the economic realities of the ‘western world’.
Indeed one has only to look at any of the independent (not the corporate finance industry’s own skewed forecasts and performance figures) to understand that it can only get worse. It is a fact of life that the global economy will have contracted by at least 1.3 percent by the end of this year and we are in the middle – not the end – of the most severe economic recession since World War II, as the the International Monetary Fund (IMF) confirmed recently.
Clearly more job losses (and to use corporate speak ‘natural wastage’) are to follow in the Island’s finance industry – the solution to the problem of a contracting market is going to be impossible to find since the pot from which Jersey’s financial sector draws from is in serious decline.
My only suggestion, based up many years of study and comment of the finance industry, is perhaps it is time for those involved in Jersey’s financial world to be much less self focused and more aware of the real business world. A more pro-active approach will arrest the decline locally. Therein at least will be found realism. Jersey is a wonderful positive place that has historically achieved prosperity by looking outward not introspectively or indeed been a salve to corporate doctrines and provided real individualist distinctive quality service and products.
In the meantime the best of luck to those employed in the finance industry – they are going to need it.
Peter Troy. Writer, Broadcaster and Publicist. St Saviour Jersey
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Personally I blaim the fall in education standards, how can so many people fail to recognise sarcasm?
No doubt the plans will go ahead and the States will find another ailing construction firm to build the biggest (and probably ugliest) white elephant to date in Jersey.
As the website states “This Is Jersey”, ,y Jerriase is poor so a French quote is better “plus ca change, plus le meme chose”
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20 Darren, Blaim is actually spelt blame and the quote is “Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”……talking of education standards!!!
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As an employee of the bank (and not management) I want to say a few things to the contributers here… Firstly this is not a direct response to the recession, yes the recession allowed the aquisition of HBOS but both ialand businesses were profit making before the shake up, they were being let down by the UK counter parties. Secondly we were invited to a seminar last night were it was explained that NOTHING would happen this year and there is a good chance that with an increase of business (so far the bank has had more new to bank customers this year than EVER before) no reductions would be needed, and this was supported by the unions that also attended last night and Lastly, if any reductions were required anyone affected would be supported by training for external roles… what more can you ask for… people on here have negative attitudes and obviously are not happy with their own employers but dont try and speak for the people affected as you’re making it into something it isn’t and also anyone on here that doesn’t like the island guess what there is a boat every evening, get on it and stop complaining… I am sure that there is a nice call center job for you waiting in the UK, goodbye! Oh, and if you think the island is going to the dogs, why are so many contributers on here against the population increase>?!? seems that alot of peoples comments are only for the sake of being negative and not based on any facts!
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‘ Darren Posted June 25, 2009 at 5:05 am
Personally I blaim the fall in education standards, how can so many people fail to recognise sarcasm? ‘
The irony in your statement is fantastic. I would be more concerned with your own spelling rather than the education standards of others. BLAME not blaim !!
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20. Darren – “la meme chose”.
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*Nick – 15,
Of course we are aware that this goes beyond our shores but what we are saying is “why continue to bring labour over when we cant even keep our own jobs safe!!” Surely locals should be employed first before our foreign counterparts! Same as we expect it to be in their countries!
We have mortgages and education to pay for yet redundancies are being made to local folk and yet the states insist we are fine and continmue to allow foreign labour onto our shores to take what jobs are left!! Look after yoru own first then send out a branch to the rest! Jersey wont be jersey’s soon enough!
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GTR, Annie, Magnolia Man, Adrian etc. Is this really down to the recession or is it due to the merger? I’d say mainly due to the latter because all the reports point to a recovery in 2010 and if that’s the case why would they still be making people redundant by the end of 2011?
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“In the meantime the best of luck to those employed in the finance industry – they are going to need it.”
Those in the finance industry prop up the majority of the other services on this island, so i say good luck to us all.
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My thoughts are with everyone at Lloyds TSB, Retail and Private Banking. I’m a Guernsey girl but I worked with you for many years and hate what the HBOS merger has done to our fine ‘conservative’ bank
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Joker – you obviously have access to a computer use it to improve your knowledge. Google any of the Independent research that has been published in the last two months, very quickly you will or should conclude that any reliable prediction of the details of the current economic recession which is increasingly impacting on the Islands finance industry is not going to get better in the near future.
The best that can happen is that the economic down turn will slow down not improve.
Banks and Finance houses produce all sorts of marketing material and statements to illustrate that they are doing well and predict that it can only get better.
Those corporate PR offerings should be ignored in favour of credible independent analysis. Finance people are very good at spinning their performance figures.
Their contributions to the debate are as helpful as a waiter with a pot of tea is to the passengers on the Titanic – most simply do not or chose to not understand the bigger picture. Evidence of that point can be found on most of the corporate websites of the Island’s finance industry.
The salient point is that it this recession unlike previous ones has been caused by faulty corporate banking policies as well as irrelevant banking regulation (principley Basel 2).
On that last point the EU is introducing a stomping amount of new regulation which will increase employment opportunities for those with a passion for red tape and in practice further restrict business activates not only in Europe but also in our “dear Chanel Islands”.
Perhaps it is now time that Jersey’s politicians and business leaders should concentrate on the development of potential growth industries – tourism perhaps. Just a thought, though the banks might regard that as a tad too risky!
Peter Troy – St Saviour Jersey CI
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Jaime, labour is being imported because it is cheaper than our home grown labour.
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Hi Lloyds Bank Employee
I’m also an employee of one of the Banks involved and went to the meeting called on Wednesday are you sure we both went to the sameone.You appear to have put a very postive spin on it,do not persume that everyone is over the moon about this as they are not. I think the Unions and the Bank will do the right thing and Redundancies will be a last resort as this expensive for the Bank. But to assume that Jobs will be create and training for external Jobs(what Jobs!)you are entering the realms of LA La Land, from what I understand if there are any Jobs created they will not be in Jersey. Jersey too expensive they can move Depts off the Island to cheaper Juristictions and who have we thank for this Yes our wonderful Politicians because of years of mismanagement, times are tough Jersey is finding out and unfortunatly it will be made worse as the Government is not up to the challenge, its been too easy in the past Finance has made them lots and lots of money not anymore.
Jersey will still have a Finance industry but will not be the Cash Cow that it once was.
Lloyds Employee are you sure not part of the Management ????
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By the way this recession will last a decade at the very least.Just thought you should know the facts.
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30 Martin
Maybe in hospitality or agriculture, but otherwise rubbish!
“Local” employees are only asking for enough wage to live on this island. Remember rents, cost of living and practically anything else is so much more expensive here so the “high” wages are required to survive.
Please also note that these high wages are also given to non-locals working in finance who have been “imported” to the island.
Excuse us locals who do not wish to squeeze together with 10 lodgers in a tiny one bed flat because that is what we’d need to do on minimum wage!
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To Jaime and others who constantly bleat about ‘employing local’ – I have been here for nearly 20 years, I have never been out of work, I have never asked YOU for a penny, I have contributed to YOUR island by paying my taxes and saving hard to purchase MY house in this beautiful island. I buy local produce and support YOUR economy. I have contributed to YOUR island by working hard in both the Public and Private Sectors………yet YOU and YOUR type always whine and whinge about immigrants.
In every job I have ever gone for if there was a Jerseyman who could have done it he would have got the position but perhaps no-one LOCAL was as qualified or as determined or presented as well as me at the interview?
Your xenophobic views and childish responses really do belong in the past. Do you honestly believe that YOUR island would be better if I and thousands of other hard working individuals over the years had never come to Jersey?
WE immigrants are the backbone of YOUR island.
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24 Nellie – as the great Del Boy says, “creme de menth”.
4. Annie – loved the sarcasm, and that some didn’t get it! But taking the point you are making, we still need to be bold and positive and look beyond the current economic cycle, so personally, let them dig the tunnel, join up the Waterfront and create for the future.
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Peter Anthony Troy – thanks for the advice. Oh, let me guess – these are the same ‘independents’ that failed to forecast the recession in the first place huh? The independents that do well when the whole of the corporate world sponsors them to perform studies and analysis on the economic climate? OK. Fact is know one really knows until businesses start forecasting real profits again. Some are doing well others not so. Mergers however always result in duplication and job losses through non compulsory redundancies.
GTR – quit whatever you do and declare yourself world leader in forecasting the economy because if you know for a fact that the recession is going to last 10 years you know more than anyone else on earth.
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darren maybe you got the job because they didn’t want a local person doing it, have you thought of that?
Jersey people are very easy going in general. As I have said before look to the UK to see how well migrants get on there. They aren’t tolerated half as well as over here.
It is not xenophobic or childish to want your children to remain in the island of their birth, however if too many people come here many will be forced out. Everyone has a right to stay in their birth place and not be forced out by others.
As I have said before some immigration is needed but not the wholesale immigration that has happened over the last 20-30 years. In my opinion all it is doing is reducing the quality of life for those here. It isn’t just about money you know there needs to be a balance in all things.
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Joker – The sources for my comments are the IMF – London School of Economics – Oxford Economic Forecasting, many articles in The Economist and papers published by numerous think tanks all of whom have no loyalty to corporate financial institutions.
The relevant point is that a global economic meltdown is a predicted from all independent economic thinkers it is only a question of to what degree. The UK economy is being likened to that of the Titanic and the government to its crew re arranging the deck chairs.
My point is that the Jersey economy being closely linked to the UK and with the global financial situation being very precarious Jersey’s finance industry is venerable.
Peter Troy St Saviour Jersey CI
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Joker – The sources for my comments are the IMF – London School of Economics – Oxford Economic Forecasting, many articles in The Economist and papers published by numerous think tanks all of whom have no loyalty to corporate financial institutions.
The relevant point is that a global economic meltdown is a predicted from all independent economic thinkers it is only a question of to what degree. The UK economy is being likened to that of the Titanic and the government to its crew re arranging the deck chairs.
My point is that the Jersey economy being closely linked to the UK and with the global financial situation being very precarious Jersey’s finance industry is vunerable.
Peter Troy St Saviour Jersey CI
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Adrian – And maybe the local applicants just weren’t upto scratch, how about that? You have your opinion but I was there, no-one will win this one.
As for your sweeping generalisation about immigrants in the UK, I suggest you live there for a while and experience the situation so you can talk factually. I grew up in the North East and had plenty of Asian friends who were a valued part of the community so I cannot agree with you on this either.
Anything I write is borne from personal experience not copy and pasted from Daily Mail-esque commentary.
I agree that everyone has the right not to be forced out of their place of birth but that doesn’t give locals the right to be so laid back as to not make the effort to find employment or expect things to be handed on a plate to them.
I work with a lot of Jersey people who work hard and I also work with some right lazy arses who are having a laugh.
I maintain my original point that some of the arguments that are continuously spewed out on here about immigrants do nothing but show the ignorance and lack of real world experience of some very one dimensional individuals.
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Darrens – 34, 40 – you are right. There is plenty of work around for those who want to work. Average States/finance salary of £33k is not relevant to reality of hard working folks.
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Darren no disrespect but I have lived in the UK and have witnessed racism to non WASP’s. I know some that have come here because they wanted to get away from immigrants back home!
I have also travelled to other places and seen the results of racism there. Because of this I feel I can make the statement that immigrants to Jersey get a very easy ride compared to most places around the world.
What people need to realise is there is good and bad, lazy and hard working in all communities.
Some of the hardest working people I know are farmers and fishermen and yes they are local. Most other professions would be seen as light weights compared to these groups, yet they often get paid a pittence compared to the pen pushers in finance. Yet without farmers and fishermen the suits and everyone else would starve.
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I believe in my predictions wholeheartedly.
There is no “joke” in my exemplary vision “Joker”!
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I don’t think that this will be the last of the island’s banks to annouce job cuts – watch this space!!!
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Wake up wake up – the issue here is that the Global economy is in a downturn and will not recover back to the levels of 2007 for many years to come. Jersey has a high dependency on ‘Finance’, the huge overseas banks that have offices in the Island will soon be reviewing their position; they will have no choice the financial enviroment is changing fast.
Lets, as Peter Troy and others comment on this site say, all start to help other business sectors that can creat long term employment.
We in Jersey need to incourage entrepreneurialism.
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Adrian, you’re saying that some UK born people came to Jersey as immigrants to escape the influx of immigrants in the UK? How ironic.
You use farmers and fishermen (of whom the majority are local) as your example of ‘heavyweight’ trades, yet you do not mention construction which is heavily populated by immigrant workers. I also fail to see why you only use manual workers as an example of hard workers? What about all the nurses who work flat out for a wage that nowhere near rewards the HARD work that they do?
I have no interest in debating this issue with you anymore as you have proven continuously on this site that you can never be wrong. Well done, it must be great being you.
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When I go on to the website of my local football team , the first postings mainly stick to the topic involved, but as more and more postings are made it descends into a slanging match. Positions are defended and attacked and sorry, it all gets very personal.This is starting to happen here.
I will make my points which divide into what I believe to be factual – and what is my opinion. I will only come back if the factual points are challenged. If you challenge my opinions then fair enough, I will not respond.
Factual
1. The UK government has basically saved the banking system through the injection of billions of pounds into various institutions. Some measures have involved nationalisation or part nationalisation of those institutions.
2. The regulatory competition rules were suspended in order to allow the merger of Lloyds and HBOS to take place.
3. Lloyds TSB has admitted that it did not carry out proper “due diligence” in connection with the merger. HBOS’s position was actually much worse than they perceived , because they did not do their homework.
Opinion
a)This merged bank is massive. There is huge duplication as previously the merged entities were in competition with one another, in many areas of banking.
b)The (unfortunate) logical conclusion is that a huge amount of jobs will go. In the UK Cheltenham & Gloucester (a subsidiary of Lloyds )is to close with the loss of 1600 jobs. This was the first step.
c)Clearly, as far as the offshore operation is concerned, the new Bank has lost no time in evaluating the position and deciding on a course of action.However the numbers of jobs “earmarked” to go is frightening.Jersey seems to be bearing the brunt of this major reorganisation, for whatever strategic reason.
d)180 (give or take a couple either way), jobs will go. Do not be fooled. This will happen. Forget about the comments that if the business expands then many jobs will be saved. They will not. You know it and I know it.
e) The great bonus for the bank is that they have stated that it will take place over 2.5 years. This is brilliant PR because at this stage no-one has been identified – yes HBOS is closing but it does not mean that all those people employed there will go as some might stay, with former Lloyds people going instead. In other words you cannot identify ( as you could with Woolworths staff) the individuals involved.Thus staff will have the sword of Damocles hanging over them for the coming years.
f)Whatever opinion you have of banks and their staff, given recent experiences,the truth is that they are hard working and in not many instances very well paid. Yes, you have read this correctly. You can also bet your last 50p that the majority of jobs will go at the lower end and not at the tope. All these people are part of our community. They are your husbands, wives, children, relatives and friends,
g)There will be a reduction in overall income tax received. 10%GST within the next five years.
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Darren, your statement implies that immigrants aren’t just as lazy and that is also discriminatory.
Let’s put the record straight. There are hard working local people and immigrants here, there are also lazy, couch potato locals and immigrants here also (yes, I have come across an abundance of lazy immigrants who only want money to support their alcoholism).
Laziness is not peculiar to any one nationality. Yes, I know some exceptionally hardworking immigrants, but with some they work such long hours because they do not want to go back to their house, it’s not fun having loads of adults crammed into a tiny house apparently.
As for Lloyds, while it is sad news and I do genuinely feel for the staff, better service can go a long way. Our contact at the bank was useless, rarely returned calls and didn’t seem to care for his clients at all, we struggled to get a hold of him for the last two years now. So this year we started moving our money elsewhere… oh, all of a sudden we were his favourite people and he was constantly phoning us! We moved our custom due to a lack of service. New clients are fine, but if you can’t keep ones that have been with your for over a decade you won’t keep the new ones either.
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Darren…..I am talkin about those, who like my parents and i and yourself, have come here and been working for years in the building trade and finanace industry, only to have labour brought in recently (such as Dandara etc) who are making it extremely dificult for those with mortgages etc to continue working and earning the living they are used to! These companies continue to import labour when there are plenty of young workers, male and female already here! Will it not frusterate you when your kids are out looking for work and they cant get a decent job because they are already taken? It frusterated the hell out of me when i came home with a degree and was unable to get a job yet everyone i met whilst working in bars etc or restaurants (who were not english) were gliding into jobs!! I have friends who are currently unemployed who are having difficulties finding work who have been here there whole lives and have qualifications and also people who have been here for less than a year who are in steady jobs! I just think it is a bit of an unfair equation is all!! If u have read any of my other previous statements i say that i am not against bringing people over to jersey at all!! Me and my family moved here, i just think that at the moment its not a very good idea to continue to import labour whilst jobs etc are so very hard to find!!!! Wait until the economy picks up and then reconsider things but until then why continue to bring more people over because the more poeple there is, the more unemployed there will be and the more money will have to be spent housing them and feeding them etc!! It just doesn’t make sense!!!
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Darren – I don’t know what criteria other people use when defining the term “local” but as far as I am concerned, anyone that has lived here for a reasonable amount of time and paid their dues is “local” ie you are a local resident.
I do see both sides of the argument as one side of my family has been here since the 1700s and the other since WWII (hence immigrants).
It used to be the case that if you wanted to work you could find employment within a couple of months at least but nowadays if you are a school leaver or over 40 – heaven forbid over 50 – then it is extremely difficult to get a job. Why is this? Not because “local” people are stupid or unemployable but because there are just too many people going after too few jobs and many employers try to employ whoever they can get the cheapest – this is hardly fair to “local” people paying high rents and expensive mortgages.
The solution is obviously to limit the number of newcomers to the Island so that those that are already here can find employment – it’s not rocket science and certainly not racist – just plain commonsense.
There are a lot of excellent people employed by LloydsTSB and I wish them all the best in their endeavours to find new jobs.
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Jaime and Nellie Macon – we seem to agree that its the politicians who have created this mess with their lack of a structured immigration policy and not any individual who finds themselves on Jersey shores in the hope of making a better life for themselves?
Leah Holmes – Do you honestly believe that people come to Jersey where there are no benefit handouts or council houses unless you’re born here, to sponge off the state? – they can do that in their own place of birth!
If you don’t work you can’t afford accommodation or food so therefore that necessitates the need to take employment in any form just to survive, this need to survive doesn’t really lend itself to the inherently lazy.
It was never my intention to discriminate against Jersey folk – thats your spin on my words.
May I add that you talking of ‘moving your money around’ is rather insensitive when the original point of debate are those poor people, Jersey born and immigrants alike, who are in the firing line at LloydsTSB.
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Darren, I didn’t say they come to sponge off the state did I? They go from job to job, each time only lasting so long until someone realises they are working extremely slowly and doing very little. And I know because we’ve employed them!
And in case you didn’t realise, many of the lazy ones come here because their whole family have moved over here. If they didn’t then they would be left back home being found out for being lazy, struggling to get work and with no family members to bail them out financially. A couple will move here, then the siblings, then their partners, then the parents, then the aunts and uncles… Often the kids are extremely hard working but the parents are drunken layabouts!
I was just pointing out that while you seem to think all immigrants are hardworking and locals are lazy, this is FAR from the truth and is a very discriminatory comment!
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darren no one finds themselves anywhere unless they want to be there. People make choices to go where there is a better life and if it is easier will they turn it down?
Anyone can get welfare once they’ve done their qualification period. Why stay in a place when you can go somewhere a lot nicer with less crime and better weather etc and the chance of a life, as opposed to nothing back home?
I too hope those who have lost their jobs will find new ones. However I don’t think it will be easy judging from what is happening around the world at present. This is why it would make sense not to allow lots more people into the island. We need to sort out what we have here first. If things get too bad there will be an increased risk of social unrest, is this good for the island? Also where will all these new people be housed? We are struggling to house what we have already. Why make it even worse?
As per accommodation, if you share with say 10 others, rent is very cheap you can therefore survive until you have done your time then you can get help from the State.
Are you saying none of this is happening in Jersey?
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I am locally born and started my long and varied career in banking and finance in 1972 on what was then grandly known as the Lloyds Bank management training program.Although I had a Business Studies qualification nothing prepared me for my first job in High Street Kensington Branch where on the first day I was shown the Branch back up generator and told to make sure it was always topped up with diesel!My second job was filing replacement chequebooks!It was one of several London Branches of Lloyds I worked at during my time with the bank during which period I learnt a hell of alot about life, people, banking and the world of finance in general.I have some wonderful memories like the day I spent showing a young Joanna Lumley the Bank’s first cashpoint machine (a complex process I assured her as we got to grips, quite unnecessarily, with it’s inner workings), or the day we accidently got the uniformed police to arrest the head of the Flying Squad,trying to explain to Linda (One of our not so switched on cashiers) just who A. Bates the actor, who was trying to cash a cheque at her till without identification,was by showing her a London Bus going by with his face on the side, to bore you with just a few!
During my subsequent “Career in finance and banking” I did everything from fixing the Gold price twice a day in a room at Rothschilds Bank, to lending US$600mn to Mexico (!),and marketing the Channel Islands for various local and City operations to financial intermediaries and clients worldwide from both London and Jersey. I was made redundant 3 times , sacked twice, walked out twice, got one job because I had just come from an interview with a certain bank’s managing director in which we had literally come to blows, an individual the next job interviewer had worked for!The point I am making is that there is always a way forward in life, as one door closes, if you look carefully a new one opens somewhere. The important thing is to preserve your health and be adaptable.As for this recession yes it is serious, and as a trained economist (Who wasn’t asked by the press) my belief is that this is actually a continuation of the setbacks we experienced in the late 1980’s, early 90’s from which we never fully recovered before the IT bubble, the Millenium bug, and the great 21st century investment and property bubble disguised the fact that no one had actually resolved any of the underlying issues of deregulation and computerisation properly.
As someone who at the end of the eighties literally went out from his mezzanine floor office in a very prestigeous bank building in the City (No names but the Hudson Bay building)to visit a client and came back to be prevented from entering by security staff I sympathise with anyone who is loosing a longterm position with Lloyds.I was making good money for the organisation I was working for marketing offshore products, but was London based and got caught up in the panic that followed the famous Black Wednesday saga. I had a mortgage, all my bank accounts,a car,insurance and pension with that Bank and at home a pregnant wife, another child and a redsetter to support. So many were either fired or made redundant that my statutory interview with the HR manager never took place because he was sacked too! Within twelve months the same organisation was re-employing staff because it had over-reacted.I did not reapply because events in my life took a different turn but I spent a very scary period during which I can truly say due to shock my abilities were very seriously impaired.Hopefully today’s organisations are better organised, and from what is being said above Lloyd’s do appear to be making an effort to redeploy people, just make sure if you are effected that you take advantage of any help offered.And to those in Lloyds making “Management decisions” remember “What goes around,comes around” so be benevolent to those you pass on the way up,as certain individuals in the City have found out recently you never know when you might meet them again on your way down!And it is true, every black cloud has a silver lining if you look for it.
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Leah Holmes – ‘I was just pointing out that while you seem to think all immigrants are hardworking and locals are lazy, this is FAR from the truth and is a very discriminatory comment!’
I never said that, please quote where I used those words?
You continue to insist that I did and I don’t know why.
How can one debate with somebody who twists peoples words in order to make their own point? Very childish
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Nick(Not Nick 15) Great post.
Many people can’t see how institutionalised they are, and it scares the hell out of um whether they work for Lloyds or another bank.
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