Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf wants to recoup money to pay for environmental schemes
MOTORISTS are likely to be hit by a Vehicle Emissions Duty and increased fuel taxes once the economy improves.
Ministers want to recoup money to pay for £2m worth of environmental schemes to pay for insulation grants, improve the bus service and do more recycling.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf has indicated that the measures will be in the Budget, but says that there will be no new charges until after the economy starts to improve.
‘The money was provided from general reserves last year,’ he said.
‘If it is to continue in 2010 there is going to be a commensurate tax-raising measure. The two main tax raising-measures that could be put in place are a mix of fuel duty and vehicle emissions duty.
‘That will only come when economic conditions are such that there is confidence restored in consumer markets.’
Article posted on 8th September, 2009 - 2.59pm
82 Article Comments
More tax!
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No excise tax, so they think of another way to screw the money out of the motorist. The states seem to be having to much contact with our’s at Westminster. Congestion charging in St Helier, a ‘low emmisions zone’? Mind you the one we have around London would cover the entire Island. The bad side of such dynamic enviromental carbon saving air cleaning, is for the porr *** who live on the edge, like me. Our area air quality has gone down.
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no surprise there then. Yet another go at the motorist. Give us a decent bus service with the extra money made and then perhaps people might have another option than using the car.
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Well for those of us who cycle to work every day, perhaps this will be a godsend.
Why are the states not doing this:
http://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/
Too late for me but it might make other people get off their butts and stop causing congestion on the local roads.
Although where will they get the lost parking revenue from???
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If the States want to raise taxes to offset the public expenses incurred by use of the motor vehicles then it should be raised from the user.
I note that no method of calculation is mention in the article, and if these haven’t been proposed then the proposer of the idea should keep quiet until he has something to actually say.
The fewer taxes the better, so we don’t need VED & fuel duty; surely the more fuel you use the more damage you do, therefore only fuel duty is required.
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Countless millions lost on the abuse inquiry overspend and also on the incinerator euro hedging fiasco with no one held materially accountable and now another tax mooted ? When will our disfunctional government give it a rest and cease treating the voting public with such disdain ?
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Wow, emissions tax! Thats nice, so with this tax are they going to account for those of us that have high emission vehicles for our business’s?
Why not do like has been mentioned and make town and all the major secondary schools congestion zones, hit those that sit there in their X5s and Range rover sports waiting to drop one child off.
All this tax is going to do is yet again hit the wrong people who keep getting hit in the pocket time and time again.
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hahaha Tax here Tax there Tax nearly everywhere!!! Are you gna tax me on the fresh air at the beach next, or tax me for walking on the pavement i wonder? Doubling GST now fuel taxes!!
Why dont we all just make our pay cheques out to the states, we are sending it all that way anyway aren’t we!!
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About time too, motoring in Jersey is soooo much cheaper than UK even though Jersey is soooo much smaller.
Fuel and motoring has to be one of the very few things in Jersey that is cheaper than the UK.
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Im sure that they will put in a cehicle emissions tax and the middle earners will be the hardest hit AGAIN. Im sure the low income earners who are now sat in their nice states homes with their free loft insulation whilst their posh cars are sat on the drive way will get all sorts of exemptions from paying any aditional tax because they are too lazy to get up and work and just want everything for nothing whilst the honest folk are working each and every day to pay for them.
I for one am sick of it all its about time the states start to punish these people who drain the system and get of the backs of the middle income earners.
I know too many people who claim this and that who just do not need or deserve it.
STOP WASTING MY MONEY>>>>
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I have zero trust in any of the states. They are either old guard who have lost the plot, or the new breed who are hopeless. They all must go!
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Surely in any money-making/cost-saving plans the FIRST thing on the agenda should be finding out how the States manage to waste so much money.
I can’t imagine anything comes close to the amount of money that could be found in the States!
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Thank God I’m so pleased, I was just saying to Mrs K the other day that we don’t pay enough tax, we can still afford food.
Lets get this straight, we are taxed on our earnings, taxed when we buy anything, taxed on our savings ( in theory at least, what are savings? ) taxed when we buy a car, put petrol in it and service it ( GST or theft as it’s more commonly known ) now we are to be taxed if anything comes out of the exhaust, presumably we are heading to the stage where if any money remains we will be taxed for innefeciant management of our finances.
Still at least the big O is going to wait until things improve economically, erm well that’s what he’s saying now, if things don’t improve it’s plan B – reverse tack and implement taxes that no one can afford except the rich who won’t have to pay them – genius classic states policy.
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Annie Du Feu comment 9 “About time too, motoring in Jersey is soooo much cheaper than UK even though Jersey is soooo much smaller.
Fuel and motoring has to be one of the very few things in Jersey that is cheaper than the UK”.
Couldn’t agree more Annie, there should be consistancy across the board, everything in Jersey should be more expensive than the UK.
The last thing we want is a transparent, fair and democratic island, thank you for keeping the spirit of greed alive and well in Jersey
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I can think of at least one certain way to both raise £2 million and reduce greenhouse gases – get rid of 40 incompetent States Members. This will not only reduce the States wage bill by at least £2 million, excluding expenses, but also reduce the considerable amount of hot air created by people such as Senator Ozouf. I suggest that Senator Ozouf therefore takes a lesson in basic economics but, of course, given his record to date, he would probably need the further advice of expensive ‘consultants’ from across the water.
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No surprise indeed. I so wish these bicycle pushing blowhards would stop and think of those of us who absolutely cannot ride to work or town – parents with children, disabled, pensioners. What on earth are we supposed to do if car and petrol taxes penalise US all the time??
I’m 60 with no sense of balance – do the maths.
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So what else are you going to take off us to try and make up for your stupid mistakes that you have made recently, you are constantly taking more and more money from us instead you should be trying to make the island cheaper…learn by your mistakes but no you don’t get a grip and cop on to yourselves…..you are going beyond a joke.
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TAX THE CYCLEIST £20-00 AGO!!!!!!
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How about taxing the incompetent politicians?
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Just a thought, how about a 20% income tax on all of the 1(1)k’s money just like the rest of us have to pay?
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I do remember when the fuel farm at was built, a tax was added to fuel then to cover the cost of building. Surely we have well and truley paid this back by now. When was this tax ever removed?
Then when GST was introduced VED was raised then, it then said this would be a double taxation, so the subject of VED was dismissed very quickly. But would this be treble taxation if we are still been charged for the fuel farm?
Once again our leaders talk about taxing the motorist with VED again, do they not look back at the past and what has been discussed!
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In the late 1990’s Frank Walker increased fuel duty significantly over a period of six years or so from about 15p per litre to 40p or thereabouts on environmental grounds. So if this issue has alredy been addressed, why is Philip Ozouf going over old ground.
If the extra revenue is required to fund insulation projects, then tax home energy costs. Why the conection with road transport and home insulation. Why not tax marine fuel used for pleasure boats ?
If the environment is so fragile, the sooner the Air Display is cancelled the better. And as for thouse last remaining tourists travelling to the island on their gas guzzling airplanes, stop thouse too !
As for Annie du Feu’s comments about making motoring more expensive, it would have to be VERY expensive for me to give it up. However, thouse with a young family – i.e. 3 kids or more and a large mortgage would certainly suffer. That right, let’s make life intolerably expensive for the next generation on environmental grounds.
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Quelle surprise, another idiotic proposal from the States. Instead of levying another tax at the wishes of the general population, why not make efficiency savings instead? Stop using mainland consultants, scrap all the flying banana logos and worthless pedestrian crossings (Also known as “Road Improvements, allegedly) and see how much can be saved? Then, SHOCK HORROR, there won’t need to be yet another tax?
I doubt this’ll happen, the mantra for this island is borrowed from Gordon Gecko in Wall Street: Greed is Good.
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Just what the island needs – another tax! The last taxes levied on motorists was to pay for road improvements, but this seems to have goen seriously wrong. Instead it seems that the Companies employed to fix our roads are engaged in their own plot to reduce the island to a “crawling pace” speed limit by what seems like ploughing the roads at every opportunity – or perhaps this is for the enjoyment of the upper classes so that they can drive their Chelsea Tractors over rough terrain without getting them dirty!!
Either way the politicians need to take themselves to the closet and have a serious word as they are wasting OUR money and then stealing more from us to pay for their exhuberance!
Sack em all and lets have an election so we can vote for ALL of those who serve the island from the very top down and not let them decide who can fill the “jobs for the boys” vacnacies.
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Contrary to the prevailing opinion on this site, I think taxes should be imposed on emissions. It costs hard cash to deal with car emissions, and it’s only fair that the people producing them should have to foot the bill for this or find an alternative form of transport. More money desperately needs to be spent on environmental causes to stop the world from falling apart, and the best place to recover this money is from the people causing these externalities in the first place.
16. Perhaps people who need to drive for disability reasons should lobby for an exemption or reduction on these taxes, if that’s not already in the plan. Or it could just be argued that you could take the bus like many pensioners already do, or walk.
As far as school and kids, my parents almost never drove me around, I walked, cycled or took the bus to school, depending on how far away I lived at from the school. I walked, cycled and used the bus to get into town from living in St Ouen. Why should it be any more difficult for kids now to do that?
10. Middle earners are *always* going to be hurt more than higher earners, even if higher earners are paying a greater sum of money. An easier life is the reward you get for having high paying job. And if you think generally lower earners here are living blissful, easy tax-payer funded lives, I suggest you actually find out what the average living condition for them is.. it’s not pleasant. The benefits and exemptions applied to them are to keep them from essentially being in complete poverty – you can’t tax what they don’t have. I am not biased: I am only just into the 20% tax bracket.
5. Fuel duty and emissions tax tend to tax different things. Cars with the same petrol consumption can produce different levels of particulates and other harmful gasses depending on how clean the engine and catalytic converters are. Fuel duty also taxes people regardless of how efficient their cars are, so people who need to drive larger distances for business reasons, but in a small car, are taxed heavier than people with big SUVs that get 10MPG. It’s also easier to apply exemptions to VED depending on situation.
I don’t think these new taxes are going to be crippling, but they might encourage people to buy a more efficient car, carpool or take the bus/walk/cycle, at least occasionally. I’m not a crazy enviro-nut either… I own and regularly use both a 2-stroke motorbike and a crappy inefficient car, but I purchased a bicycle recently and it’s already paid for itself in fuel costs, and I now walk to work.
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Tax cyclists?
Cyclists already pay GST on their vehicles and fuel, and I for one pay Income Tax, some of which goes towards the health costs of treating those:
> with conditions resulting from the more sedentary lifestyle they have chosen,
> injured in collisions involving motor vehicles,
> who suffer from the pollution generated by motor vehicles.
These are just some of the costs of motoring – it is only fair that those who choose to drive pay more to cover their costs.
Sue: can’t balance on a bike? The maths is easy:
a bike + another wheel = a trike
Or are you just looking for excuses to hide your inability to break your car addiction?
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21% respondants in their own survey said VED should be reintroduced, therefore 79% didn’t. Therefore…. Democracy at work?
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The principal cause of gaseous emission in Jersey transport is cyclists.
This is not a flippant comment .Anyone who drives from St Martins to town in a morning or reverse in an evening will know what I mean. Strings of cyclists pedalling slowly with hundreds of cars backed up behind them chugging inefficently.
This POTENTIAL tax is yet another stealth tax to bale out our incompetent curren incumbents.
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Has Jersey decided to model itself on the UK. I thought I left there a few years ago but it seems to be following me. I thought Jersey Governed itself. Was I wrong?
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Glasgow is leading the way with introducing charge pods for electric cars ,the city also has a brilliant subway knicknamed the clockwork orange,
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I walk as much as I can, sometimes I simply can’t and I need to have the car, why should I be penalised for that? If I have to rely on public transport then I will have to buy a house right next to a bus stop and find a different job (right next to a bus stop), I’ve lost count of the number of times I left the house in Glasgow to go for the train and didn’t manage to get to the station before my legs refused to move any more.
If this plan is implemented (which it will be) there needs to be much more consideration given to those who have intermittent disabilities that can flair up with no warning at all… shouldn’t be hard since they include very common conditions like arthritis.
And when I say my legs refuse to move, NO, I’m not lazy and I can cope very well with extreme pain, my legs literally seize up! Try walking or cycling a bike when that happens.
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There are clearly different opinions here but what will make the difference to me between a genuine attempt to address so called green issues and just another tax will be a commitment to ‘ring fence’ the money.
Now you can call me a cynic if you like but I suspect that it will not be ring fenced and the money will go into general revenue. In a couple of years time, maybe after the next election, and politicians are looking to make more cuts then they will still cut the environmental schemes!
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Bob 25
You must be an accountant to come up with that sort of maths
You must compare like with like. A vehicle that does 10 mile to the gallon of fossil fuels must be bigger detriment to the planet over the period of its life than a vehicle that does 50mpg.
One would assume they have the same lifespan therefore the same total mileage before they are scrapped ?.We have no periodic check on emissions in jersey so who knows how well a 3 year old catalectic converter is working
Fuel is taxed per litre. therefore we have a tax that targets the less fuel efficient.
Lets be honest its just another attempt to get money by the back door. If the environment were the main concern why an incinerator?
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Yet another nail in the coffin of Jersey and yet another reason to leave. I guess the States just want an island full of multi millionaires who will only become richer and never question their policies!
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@ Bob #25
Nice to see a valid argument put up for once!
I don’t totally disagree with your points in response to my post(5), but without knowing what method level the proposer has in mind neither of us can really be sure which is better.
I still think a single tax is preferable than double taxation, and the argument that low mileage inefficient cars are taxed less than high mileage efficient cars just doesn’t stand-up; if you use more fuel to drive the same distance you pay more in tax. If you HAVE to go longer distance for business, this is a business cost. Maybe there’s an argument that SOME businesses(like some people, disabled for example) should be able to show their mileage and fuel reciepts to reclaim fuel duty (direct or via Income Tax/Social Security), but that’s another matter.
Surely the best(practical) measure of road/fuel/vehicle use is fuel use. Depending on the method of calculation (still the crux of the issue) VED becomes a tax on potential. Should we charge income tax based on potetial?
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Its a gas comment 28.
Must be so so difficult for you when you are behind a bicycle, i can just imagine you sat behind the wheel huffing and puffing about how a cyclist should have no right to use the road built for by only your taxes and not the cyclists! You need to grow up.
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Well Keith! Thank you so much for your kind advice – I didn’t think people would be so judgemental without even knowing me but I shall explain further – I had two operations for breast cancer in 2005, followed by chemotherapy and radiotherapy and am now on tablets (for five years) which cause pain and stiffness in my joints. If you want me to look for an ‘excuse’ why I can’t break my car addiction – try a genuine reason instead!!
TRUST me – I would be delighted to be able to cycle, but your patronising mention of another wheel, I find offensive, just about as offensive as being told so boringly often that it’s only cyclists who are ’saving the planet’!
And as for catching public transport, its quite a walk to the nearest bus stop – as and when they run.
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As per motorists, they are an easy target. Lots of easy money to be made from them as the government knows people are addicted to their cars and could never do without them so it tax all the way. Unfortunately people have got too lazy now and will even drive a hundred yards to the shop instead of walking, or cause rush hour chaos by having to drop their kids to school instead of letting them walk or cycle in.
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Why not double tax all vehicles over 1500 cc and no tax under ? This would hit the people that can afford it and not those that cant. You dont need a Chelsea Tractor to take your kids to school or a WRX for driving around Jersey or a Porche for shopping. You also dont need a Chrysler for running around States officials either, (usually driver plus one ).Lead by example.
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How on earth can loft insulation, warmth cladding,the cost of recycling and a grot bus service be the responsibility of the poor flippin motorist….are we seen as a soft target..it is innapropriate and I seriously question the morality of it…any of you hiding politicians care to comment…..Wimbo are you still not allowed on here..?
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When the roads are properly policed and free from obstacles enabling me to travel to my destination in the quickest possible time or shortest possible route then I’d be more than happy to pay for this benefit.
As it stands the roads are clogged with taxis, vans and trucks who like to park anywhere on yellow lines thus causing traffic congestion.
School kids should be forced to use the bus or cycle and the school bus system needs to be improved drastically. We all know how ridiculously busy the roads are when the schools go back.
Tractors and other farm vehicles should be banned from main roads during certain rush-hours, as well as other slow moving vehicles.
If the states get their wish and everybody decides to go green and walk or cycle then where are they going to get all the tax from? What will happen with the lost revenue on parking tickets, fines etc, etc?
I already don’t bother driving to town to shop because of the hassle so my money is not being spent in the local economy (except for essential living items) and I buy online.
The only vehicles you’ll see one day are the post office ones delivering everyones mail orders!!
Good work States members!!
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I have to agree with #40 re the morality of taxing the motorist to pay for items totally unconected with motoring.
Bit like taxing beer to pay for TV licences which cost Mike Vibert his seat at election time ! Most of the electorate are motorists and come election time, hopefully those behind this proposal will lose out at the next elections.
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I see that they want to spend money resurfacing the cycle track along the avenue. At least those that live out west have a cycle track. Perhaps this money should be spent trying to establish a cycle track in the east. I’m sure more people would cycle from the east if it was safer. Also rather than taxing all motorists why not increase parking charges for long stay parking and invest this into a frequent, intergrated, Island wide bus service.
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Adrian
Shock horror – I find myself in complete agreement with you!
People are lazy. Despite people moaning how expensive Jersey is to live in we still see the majority of the population happy to burn their wages in the combustion engine when they can use their legs to walk/cycle a mile to work/school which is the distance the majority of the population have to travel. Guess that’s a sign of an affluent Island by comparison despite what people say. People will say ‘I work I have no choice other than to drop my child off at school blah blah.’ Simply not true. Every child over the age of 7 can walk, if it’s too far to walk cycle, if it’s too far to cycle get the bus. Only if you live in a remote part of the Island should you need to drive.
I for one don’t mind paying more tax on emissions provided we see genuine returns on this tax in terms of infrastructure directly related to the tax we’ve paid. There should be a law where if the States wish to bring in new specific taxes they have to protect that money so it is only used for that purpose. In this case, better facilities for cyclists and bus travellers encouraging people out of their cars using a carrot and not a stick.
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Joker (44):
Couldn’t agree more, most people are extremely lazy, there is no need to drive at all for the majority of the population (although everyone has their excuse). Anyone been to Sark ever?
Fuel tax is optional for most (as are parking fees and motor insurance). I don’t own a car but am lucky to live on a pretty good bus route, unlike many in far country parishes.
Your point that we should see genuine returns is very true also, the bus service would be a perfect target for the new revenues, an example being carrying on buses to those in country parishes on Sundays and late at night all year round.
Hobgoblin (43) another genuine point, lots of people live in the east but have no nice cycle routes in to town, compared to the west with excellent paths.
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I do not have a problem with emission tax as such but the issue is a wider one that of the cost of living in Jersey which is far too high as it is.
If you want to price the island out of existance then go ahead
And a message to all you cyclists out these. amazingly the rules of the road do apply to you including stopping at traffic lights Zebra crossings and the fact that pavements incredibly are for pedestrians
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Nigel #32 and Len #34 make brilliant points. If this tax was genuinely used to help the environment then it would be less difficult to take but it won’t be, these kind of taxes are never used for the purpose we’re told they’ll be used for. It’ll be used to make the rich richer in some way.
As for Len’s comment, I’m sure the States would be delighted with a much lower population than they seem to be aiming for if it was just 40,000 multi-millionaires and none of us commoners. Then many issues, like pollution, would be helped greatly. Of course they would be helped by a lower population whether rich or poor.
These kind of taxes always penalise those who have intermittent conditions or those who are extremely ill but ‘look healthy’. Society needs to learn to deal with such people MUCH better before imposing these kinds of taxes that will simply further limit the lifestyle of the disabled. If I can’t afford to drive I will, most likely, be unable to work, then I become a ‘burden on society’, something I have proudly managed to avoid to this day.
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Sue comment 37 – just for the record there appear to be 2 keith’s commenting on this forum, just wanted you to know that the comment you refer to was not by me, lets call me regular keith.
I completely sympathise, I am disabled myself and suffering from a critical illness, I do not knock disability or illness unless referring to myself.
PS – I think the other Keith is using a pseudonym
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Excellent.
I’m all in favour of pricing the poor off the road and onto public transport etc. if it enables me to drive to and from work a little quicker.
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What about a MOT which would be worth while and get all the heaps off the road.
Has the overseas fund been reduced?
Once again the normal working class person gets a good blow….
Thanks alot
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yet more stealth taxes, our carbon footprint will never be great as a island. fuel to run the ships to bring in food and goods, air travel on and off,plus the air freight, gas shipped in and fuel shipped in.
those of us who remember road tax, down to the chelsea hotel each year to buy the new disc.
which was replaced by fuel tax, for the up keep of the roads, a couple of years latter the roads took a turn for the worst, a slow decline , untill we end up with the patchwork quilt we call the road today.
as you can see fuel tax gave us top quality roads.
what will the new stealth taxes realy get for our hard earned cash?
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If this is supposed to be some sort of GREEN TAX then may i suggest that the Air Display is stopped due to unnecessary co2 emmissions in the name of entertainment.
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I feel the recent announcement by the States of Jersey treasury minister, that new environmental taxes may be brought in as part of the States new fiscal strategy needs some robust political comment. He has stated that new environmental taxes will be collected from car emissions and an increase in fuel duty, and will be implemented once it is felt that the present financial crisis is over.
Before any new form of taxation should be considered it must be proved beyond any doubt that no viable and credible alternative is available. To this point, we have seen no indication from the States in the past four years that they are willing, or able to control spiralling public expenditure. This is the driving force behind the need to increase further taxation on an already over taxed population.
The fact remains that our States Members have doubled public expenditure in the last four years and have done nothing to curtail the over bloated and wasteful senior civil servants whose pay is far in excess of the very people they are intent on taxing. The people who will bear the brunt of these new taxes are the parents, grand parents, taxi drivers, delivery firms, and the everyday motorist who must commute to work in the morning and get home at night after a hard days work.
This revenue stream and more importantly its allocation, needs a very serious rethink in its application if implemented. Money collected from increased taxes on car emissions and fuel duty should not pay for private individual’s home insulation. Our bus service is already paid millions of pounds in subsidies and should not receive any further funding. This is not what this money should be used for.
As it is the motorist paying these taxes it would make more sense to ring fence this money into an environmental fund that would encourage the following eco friendly objectives:
1. Reinvestment into one of our greatest assets, our road system. The resurfacing of some of our roads should been seen as a priority.
2. Money from this tax increase should be used to introduce a car scrappage scheme by removing old vehicles from the road and replacing them with new eco friendly hybrids.
3. The building of more car parks in town. This will stop the constant driving round of people looking for parking spaces; the effect will be less fuel burnt and a saving in fuel consumption. Extra parking spaces will mean an increase in revenue for the states.
4. The extension of mains drains and water should be seen as a priority. This will help prevent contamination to our local environment, and the effects it has on the water table.
It would appear prudent as our economy is in recession to stimulate all areas of it for growth. Therefore it would make economic sense to introduce a car scrappage scheme as part of our fiscal stimulus package and make it a priority.
Every major economy in the world has used this to stimulate growth its economy and promote the benefits to the environment by removing old and outdated technology. This should be implemented without delay as it will have the residual effect of boasting the local car industry and safe guard the many hundreds of local jobs it contains.
Yours Faithfully Roy Travert
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david brown #51
We may be a small Island but if we have more cars per square mile than anywhere else in the world then surely that means we have one of the highest carbon footprints per head of population which I think is disgusting. We burn more fuel per mile in Jersey than elsewhere because our maximum speed limit is nearly half the speed that a car is most efficient (70mph approx). If you don’t believe me take your car to France and see your tank range nearly double. Having short roads also means there’s a lot of ’stop starting’ and a car burns most fuel when accelerating – especially from standing. Further to this our cars never get driven far enough for emission reducing technology such as cat converters to properly kick in. A car is most polluting when it is ‘cold’ and engine never get the chance to properly warm up here.
Mick #52
That is once a year. Shall we ban all leisure motoring and racing as well? Shall we ban the Battle of Flowers because dirty tractors need to pull them? Are you saying we should only use machinery generating carbon or poisonous emissions for practical purposes only?
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Well said Mr Travert, I bet those who did not cast a vote for you last time wish they had of now as you predicted many of our current woes in your manifesto which is still in my kitchen…. Robust yet sensible…please come out and vote for people with a bit of Savvy next time folks as the ” let’s play safe ” theory used to be o.k. but is now a true disaster recipe…just look around you..Hope you run next time Sir…
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Roy Travert (53), do you want a new car?
Car scrappage schemes are bad for the environment because of the vast quantities of resources required to build a new car. Keeping an old banger going for as long as possible leads to less greenhouse gas emissions.
If we were to implement a car scrappage scheme on environmental ground surely it is better to wait until electric cars are widely available as greenhouse gas emissions from nuclear (or possibly by then wind and tide energy) are considerably smaller than that from petrol as a new car would use.
Cement/concrete production is one of the largest causes of greenhouse gas emmisions so new buildings (specially concrete monstrosities like multistory carparks) should not be built from an “environmental fund”
Economic Growth cannot be sustained for ever. If we are talking about environmental issues here then we should be looking at economic stabilisation as opposed to growth.
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My car is by no means green but it is still better than the van that i can use – If you start taxing me i’ll just switch to using works van and end up doing more damage to the environment. Another point – every business on the island will raise its prices to cover the new tax so we will pay more for everything – oh and the govt will get even greater tax revenue from GST because of the increased prices. It’s time for this bunch to go – I cannot wait for the promised general election next year.
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Roy Travert makes some very valid points but I could not agree with the introduction of a scrappage scheme. As Jersey does not have a motor manufacturing industry, there would be little benefit to the islands economy.
The UK system has resulted in a vast number of perfectly usable cars being scrapped as their well heeled owners buy new, benefiting Hyundai and other foreign manufacturers and creating waste from the scrapped cars.
Modern cars are very well made and their owners should be encouraged to maintain their cars in good condition. The days of the true ‘banger’ are actually over, as motor manufacturers have improved rust proofing to a point that cars last longer, a fact that is now affecting new car sales. (For example, my ten year old car is in far superior condition than the cars that my father owned in the 1970’s when they were only a couple of years old.
Like it or not, the car is here to stay in one form or other, so lets build more car parks in town so people can drive into town at any time, find a space and enjoy the town and contribute to the islands economy.
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well said roy travert..
joker, i need to drive for my work around the island, and run a economical ,german diesel, which is maintained, and plods along jersey busy roads, on very little fuel.
my point was the new proposed tax , may not end up where we think, as fuel tax ,clearly has not gone to the road.
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Why should we pay addidtional taxes to be able to give grants to people who can’t afford to insulate their own homes. Perhaps this new tax will be given to the Housing Department to make their draughty ill maintained homes more liveable, I know this because I live in one and am charged a ridiculous rent, but we havent had so much as a lick of paint or a much needed new kitchen, the double glazing installed several years ago should have alleviated draughts so why do my curtains blow around on windy days?
Time to think about looking after your own and not others.
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David brown
Your German car probably is green by comparison to what is on the road but in Jersey its green credentials are greatly reduced by the points made in my last post. If you need to drive for business then that is different, I was mainly focusing on the many unnecessary journeys into work/school.
Fair enough but my original post did say any new motoring tax should be accompanied by law that they cannot be spent on anything other than improving the Island’s infrastructure in relation to transport – especially greener transport.
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Like many in Jersey I have two cars – a big four x four that gets very little use outside the family holiday in France and when need to lug the kids and their pals around at weekends. For the daily commute I have a small basic but very economical little car. This tax will penalise me for trying to do my bit in using the small call.
How about a bit of honesty from the CoM – this is just more tax.
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What a ‘captive audience’ we are? Great targets. Because we live on a small island we need vehicles that enable us to leave it once in a while. So I would love to own a green car but it won’t be much use to me when I travel to France or the UK will it?
I can’t afford numerous cars, I buy the one that does everything I need it to. So, once again, I’ll be penalised for not being loaded.
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can’t believe the number of people that complain at this, even when the article says once the economy improves – i.e. when people can afford a bit more.
to me, any measure that takes just one car off the road is a good one. it is a blatant fact that there are far too many cars on the road in jersey.
if taxes can help pur people off driving, pay for more public transport, subsidised taxis fares, encouragement for cycling, motorbikes and mopeds etc. then great.
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If the aim is to benefit the environment then surely one must consider the fact that CO2, hydrocarbon and particulate emissions from heavy goods vehicles, buses, coaches and quarry vehicles far exceed those of the Islands domestic vehicles.
I would suggest to the States that it is time to grow some balls and insist that, for environmental reasons businesses with old polluting vehicles must update their fleets. Affected businesses will sabre rattle and threaten to leave the Island but they will settle down and adapt.
Its time to introduce ideas that will actually have a positive tangible environmental benefit, rather than generate income.
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joker , we are singing from the same songsheet then.
i love it when the kids are on holiday, knocks 30 mins off travel time anywhere at peak times.
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I am bemused by Jokers comments that driving to work and taking your children to school are classed as unnecessary journeys !
Unfortunately I have little option other than to drive my 5 year old to shool for the next couple of years but that is just life, I am afraid.
Yes the day will come when he can get the bus, or walk some of the distance, but not for now.(And dont start the old argument that I should send him to the ‘local’ school !)
As for going to work, yes, it would have been nice to have been born into money and live off of the family trust fund, but very few of us are that lucky.
A little tolerance would go a long way I feel.
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What a negative whinging bunch you all are!
So they may put a few pence on fuel costs, so what? We live on a 9×5mile island for goodness sake!! And for those of you who cry “stealth tax!” it is clear you do not understand the meaning and have picked it up from some tabloid paper…this would not be a stealth tax as we have been told the reason for the tax, to pay for insulation to homes etc. You all harp on about how unfair this all is to you, yet you still choose (and are able) to live here – because Jersey is a nice place…it is close to the UK (where many of us are from), it enjoys nice weather, little crime, low unemployment and for most of us (and there will always be the exception) we can lead quite comfortable (if a little boring) lives. Tax the fuel, and lets put the money into jazzing the island up a bit, get some decent acts on, have comedy/arts/music festivals and make the air display bigger and better – i’d go out and buy a car and do laps of the island if I thought it would bring over The Killers, Kings of Leon or Ricky Gervais.
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I certainly won’t be sending my seven year old daughter to school on a bike through country lanes until some thought is given to the Island implementing a Sex Offenders Register and knowing what the risks are.
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tis a sad state of affairs, i for one drive a 16 year old smoky diesel land rover but i do about 100 miles a month, so am i gonna be squeezed for my bit of driving? I also drive another diesel land rover for my job, yes its a more fuel effecient engine but i do around 300 miles a week so how is this going to work out?
Surely i should be commended for running an old vehicle for so long, it doesn’t use half the energy to keep it running than it would do building the new one to replace it?
Also how about bio fuels? i would happily run the old girl and the new one on bio’s but are they available, NO!! that would be an easy way to reduce emmissions…
And how about incentives for people to get there vehicles running on auto gas, instead of tax money filling the coffers, divert a portion of it to funding alternative fuel instalation supplements for motorists…?
As for getting a bus! HAHA im just an slightly larger than average joe, and i can’t even sit in a bus seat with my legs in front of me, are you gonna get bigger buses to seat people comfortably for the hour long journeys? i think not…
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It is very hard to think of a way to reduce the output of carbon dioxide while maintaining our lifestyle.
But it is clear that continuing to increase the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will result in climate change.
The collective pressure that the human race is putting on the ecosystems of the planet that we live on is huge.
We are changing it in a huge way.
The bulldozers that we have built now move more earth than all the Earth’s rivers.
Our dams and irrigation projects have reduced the Jordan and the Rio Grande to trickles that barely reach the coast.
The Dead Sea and the Aral Sea are being pushed to the point where they will cease to exist.
From roughly 1750 when we really started to dig out coal, through the development of oil and gas as fuels in the 20th century we have elected to change the climate and the surface of the planet in an unprecedented way.
Maybe the changes are manageable but in a worse case scenario our technology will have rendered the Earth fit for habitation by not much more than cockroaches by 2050!
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Joker you are forgetting in Jersey our average yearly mileage is vastly lower than that on mainland Europe and the UK.One often hears of salesmen running up more than 100,000 miles per year, unheard of, if not impossible in jersey. This surely counteracts the slightly poorer fuel economy achieved on the island. Ever been in a traffic jam in London or Paris during rush hour? now that realy throws your argument out the window.
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(20) Mick. “Just a thought, how about a 20% income tax on all of the 1(1)k’s money just like the rest of us have to pay?”
I couldn’t agree more with your comment – but our Council of Millionaires wouldn’t want to upset the upper crust now would they – that would not be moral!
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Warren J #66
My original post (44) did say “Only if you live in a remote part of the Island should you need to drive.” in relation to dropping spawn off to school or yourself to work every single working day of the year. I also mentioned that if your child is over 7 then they are probably capable of making their own way to school unless the parent is overly protective or the child cannot be trusted for one reason or another.
Kaz #69
In that case I suggest you never let your child out of your site or alone with anyone you know (including family) ever again as statistics prove children are more venerable to friends and family then they are strangers. Good luck in achieving that.
PJG #71
Actually you’ve just proved my point. Why use the car for so many low mile journeys when you can walk/run/cycle quite often? It’s not just about the state of the environment it’s about us all being a little less lazy and a little more healthy. Clearly if people want to be sloths and waste their lives in jams that’s up to them.
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PJG #71
As for the environment it depends on how you look at it. Yes I agree we drive less and therefore produce less emissions in total but per mile driven our carbon footprint is far higher.
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Can someone tell me if the vehicle emissions tax will be based on the size of vehicle / emissions category (like the UK)? If this means that 4×4 owners will be taxed more, then brilliant – bring it on Ozouf! We might actually see a decrease in the numbers of these hideously oversized vehicles on our small roads.
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So, this has nothing at all to do with emissions…it is about a governments reckless spending and it’s innability/unwillingness to curb itself and has become like a drunken teenager with a credit card….only it’s our money…they spend it wildly,then when asked,know not where it went…the treasurer himself, yes he who blew the Euro deal and still has a well paid job, said he did not know the how the island was financially, and so they tax and tax again…just in case it matters nothing to them what the item/service is …whatever will draw the least flak it seems, it is incompetency at it’s worst and is downright dishonest and immoral…..
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ds(67).
stealth tax, for me is a generalisation, of a dreamed up tax , to squeeze money out of our shrinking pockets.
as for tabliods , i prefer to read on line.
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no 75, a driver….
good to see someone so predictably jumping on the anti 4×4 band wagon. I think if you do some background research you see that a lot of modern 4×4’s have a comparatively small carbon foot print, manufactures have long been aware of the tree hugging anti 4wd movement and have made huge steps in reducing outputs. Take the lexus RX400, i quote ” its CO2 outputs are 25-40% lower than the equivalent sized saloon”, and land rovers new LRX and latest generation of Freelander both have hybrid power so will produce less than 120gms/km of CO2…. you want low emissions, buy a 4×4 it would seem…
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Realistically if the BRIC ( Brazil, Russia, India, China ) countries expanded their consumption of world resources to even 25% of the consumption per head of the G7 countries we would be consuming all of the sustainable resources of the planet in terms of fish etc several times over and we would have to more than double the amount of oil we pump out of the ground each year or face huge price rises.
Can we see the Council of Ministers address how the island would deal with this situation in the next Strategic Plan?
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Tax the 4×4s, with a special additional recreational tax for the ones used by plastic rally drivers churning up the land for “fun”.
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what about BIG internet UK based companies that are operating in the island and sending goods outside jersey, avoiding to pay taxes .
The managers don’t even try to employ local people or use local suppliers .
When are they going to start paying taxes
JERSEY IS CONSIDERED TO BE A TAX HEAVEN TO THE RICH but not for the people that live and work here.
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