Panel chairman Deputy Roy Le Hérissier
AROUND a third of children left States primary schools this year without the expected literacy and mathematics skills.
The Education Department has revealed that 35.2% of children leave States primary schools without the basic literacy skills and 32.3% leave without the basic skills in maths.
And the figures also show that less than 1% of pupils of fee-paying schools with States support fail the comparable standards.
Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny panel chairman Deputy Roy Le Hérissier, whose questions in the States forced Education Minister James Reed to reveal the statistics, says that they make worrying reading.
But the minister refused to reveal a breakdown of results by school, just as he has refused to reveal individual school exam results.
Article posted on 10th November, 2009 - 3.00pm
69 Article Comments
I expect the teachers will take the blame again when really education begins at home with the perants.
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Can we have breakdown of how many of these children who leave school without a basic education, spend all their time watching television, playing box computer games or simply disrupt those who do want to learn?
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Yet another reason for Island wide voting for Ministers.
Open Government!!
How can we vote out these people whilst they are Parish Deputies unless standing in Senatorial elections next time they should not be offered these positions.
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It’s shocking
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the burning question i have is why?
is this the 30% who in the future,will struggle to find empolyment?
but some who are not good at maths and english are very good with manual skills.
( i admit that i fall into this bracket)
or could it be that disruption in the classroom is holding others back?
these are tommorows workers and need to be of a reasonable standard, then possibly we would not have to import so much labour.
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The trouble is this carries on through secondary schools as well, can we see those figures????
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What do you expect, when around a third of children in primary education, don’t speak English as their first language.
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Not entirely sure this is due to the education system. Some pupils do not want to learn as they think the island owes them a living and therefore education is superferlous
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The high level of illiteracy in Jersey’s adult population is all too obvious.
One has only to read most of the comments posted on the various Island websites to see poor spelling, indifferent syntax, and appalling grammar.
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OK so a third of primary school kids don’t have adequate literary or numeracy skills, what about the other half?
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The skills of numeracy and literacy are important of course but for the future of the world, the future of education needs to be completely transformed. Students need to leave school with more than a few bits of paper which mean they have regurgitated some facts. Look at the link below to see this agument put far more powerfully than I could.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRi8_fXz1D8
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I iz suprizd itz 1/3. Wot wiv txtng now as a way of lif iz it? any supriz
parnts arnT bovered No mor
It must bee ard 4 Tchrs who ave 2 put up wiv lids then get azle from there parentz bout it
? Y do teechrs bover it not worf the greef in me bok beter wrk in banc n gt lodz a muny
Micko I C U ben wel tort
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Ah but at lease we spend millions on heritage so they cant read about our past.
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(9) magnolia man, i fit the discription of all of your post, and tackle maths with a calculator.
from leaving school , all those years ago,i have had to write very little,but can saw a straight line, and cut in with a paint brush.
some people who come across as quite articulate, cant spell jack.
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Comment 1, Ann, I agree 100% with you although I would hope the ‘parents’ could spell correctly.
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When my children were at school my husband and I were always involved in what they were doing and looked forward to parent evenings,open days etc when we could see their work and speak to the teachers.I imagined all parents were like us but then I worked with a woman whose children were the same age as ours and she had absolutely no interest in their education.She actively encouraged them to stay off “sick” for the slightest reason,frequently told her youngest son to ignore/abuse the teacher who was “picking on him”,hadn’t a clue what subjects they were sitting for GCSE’s and thought I was mad for hoping mine would go to university as they would have to leave home(!)If parents are not supportive what hope do the children have?
These figures are appalling and the schools with the worst achievers should be closely looked at although I suspect Fubar (comment 7)has a valid point.
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Fubar hits the nail on the head.
Look at the pictures of kids in primary school classes the JEP is publishing at the moment. At some schools the kids all have English/Jersey surnames and are called Emily and Lily and Jack and Harry. At others most surnames are Polish or “Mediterranean” and the others have Christian names like Jayden and Kayleigh.
I suspect one could guess just from a list of the names of people in a class whether they will get higher or lower exam results. Sad but true.
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No.14 Ed-please excuse the typing error. You are quite correct.
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As someone who suffers from Dyslexia, which I had to look up the spelling of, I wonder if the parents of these children are wondering if it’s their problem or the States educational system.?
The mind is a muscle and it needs to be worked, but without motivation it stops working and becomes lazy. My opinion is that standards in some parts of society lack of discipline. These children have parents who lack the power to properly discipline their unruly child for fear of the PC society we have created. Bring back the cane that will focus the mind and probably reduce crime. Smack them. Fear of your parents is better than jail. Your child now has motivation.
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Adrian I can see you’re down with the kids
What is the figure for kids leaving secondary school, does it improve on the primary percentage?
It does seem to me that young people have a lesser grasp of literacy and numeracy than we had when I was at school. The introduction of that dreadful text speak doesn’t help, I cringe when i see people using it on forums such as this, it just makes them look thick. As for numeracy, we did times tables and I can still name any figure up to 12 multiplied by another up to 12, kids these days can’t do basic mental arithmatic.
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Which is very worrying given that the effective closed shop/restrictive practices over here in the job market are breaking down. No longer will 16 yr olds be able to walk into interesting roles/career paths in trust companies and finance houses.
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Magnolia Man, you put a comma before you wrote ‘and’. Tut tut
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I have some contact with kids of various ages helping within the Youth Service. When attending Youth Clubs, the children have to fill out a form with their details. It has been quite surprising how many require help with their spelling and very basic grammar.
When I was a child my parents would sit with me whilst I completed my homework, assisting me and giving advice and encouragement where needed. Is it the sad case that todays families do not interact in this way?
We should all as a society feel ashamed that this has been allowed to happen.
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The most likely reason the Education Minister can’t reveal the Statistics is because the Civil Servants running the Department refuse to give them to him. No doubt, because the statistics will reveal how badly the over staffed department is being managed – as are all others.
A new law should be speedily enacted, making it a criminal offense, punishable by a minimum of two years in prison, for any States Employee, Civil Servant or Chief Office, who misleads or conspires to mislead or willfully withholds information from a sitting States Member. If 200K p/a plus isn’t enough to require a little honesty, then someone should start riding off into the sunset – preferably in the direction of Plemont!
How in God’s Name, did this Island ever get to a point where unelected Civil Servants are able to withhold information from serving States Members? How can elected Members ever hope to be able to govern this Island when they can’t get the facts and information?
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At least i have an excuse for being thick and stupid.
basic education overcrowded class-room(some of us had to sit on the floor)
After getting twacked numerous times for not paying attention and getting twacked again when i got home i think i have been left brain damaged,oh and thrown on the scape heap 3 months before the age of 15 did,nt help either.
It was a case of sink or swim.
Hope that explains why some are not as bright as others.
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I thought the States had dispensed with the UK Stats exams because they cost to much or are all 11 years tested? If so which benchmark are they been tested against?
I agree the statistic is shocking but what is the real truth behind the stats? I am assuming there is a combination of factors…
1. Jersey States schools have adopted the Maths Makes Sense scheme (MMS) which is an excellent scheme and one that is now starting to be adopted more widely. However alot of fee paying schools in Jersey didn’t sdopt it intially or have not. UK schools did not intially. Therefore if the Maths test is a traditional test or a UK one it will have completely different ‘maths language’ to what the pupils are learning now. That does not mean that they are poor in maths it just means its a different way understanding exams. The same happened when first year GCSE students suddenly had to go into A-levels.
2. we have had a large influx of students where english is not a first language. There is huge support at present in primary schools for those pupils struggling wih english. I don’t know if that support was in schools when these 11 year olds were tested.
3. Parents and carers do make a difference and we have a responsibility to ensure homework is done and support the work the teacher is doing. Pupils can’t pass a spelling test if they haven’t been practicing or not encouraged from home.
4. I do think there is an element where because of the success of the finance industry that people assume there will be jobs and firms will give the training plus I have heard the advice over many years where parents advise their children to leave school at 16 get a job in finance and buy a house as that is the way to make your fortune.
The states and employers need to be sending a stronger message to pupils and parents that the knowledge economy is the key to the future of Jersey and unless we have a well educated work force then Hong Kong, Singapore and other countries will take the finance business which is something we have to compete for not our god given right.
There also needs to be more support for the family unit and recognition of the hardwork they do, better tax breaks, better uni grants. Married family units have been proved to be the best environment for children and higher academic achievments.
Lets look behind the headline statistics and look at our wider society and what it has become.
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Fubar @ 7 does have a point, however, I know some children who have only been in the island for a few years who seem to speak better english that those that have lived here there entire lives.
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What do you expect when society is broken? The nuclear family is rapidly becoming a thing of the past, and the role of the male in society has become confused.
Government should be doing more to encourage stable family life by providing necessary help when required instead of trying to patch up the pieces.
Today most want things now and they aren’t prepared to wait, or work, on repairing things so its out with the old and in with the new, and that includes relationships unfortunately.
Q makes a valid point. Places like HK and Singapore probably have a better standard of literacy than Jersey now, and they don’t suffer from foreign language phobia either.
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I never write with the correct grammar in these sort of Blog pages, if you write a letter yes but this is a blog page so who cares when your speaking your mind, If you can read it and it makes sense then whats the problem. I left school quite a few years ago and my level of grammar has dropped.
Back to the point regarding education on the island, To me where the problem has occured is the fact if standards seem to be low the way goverments react is to lower the standards, then hay presto the grades become higher, sad to say but true. The worst thing I heard a teacher say to a child before a exam was if the word isn’t spelt the same but sounds right you will still be marked on it! crazy
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The Establishment don’t care if many school leavers are disadvantaged so long as their own expensively educated children are more appealing to employers, it helps them to look after their own. They need an underclass so that they can remain on top.
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What a pathetic comment #14 to begin with kids are young goats, you should use the correct word “children” or young students, as for names having any slant on how the children actually achieve academically is totally ridiculous. Then you throw in the usual i don’t like immigrants by using Polish or Portuguese races, most polish parents who do work in Jersey have had an excellent education in Poland many speaking three languages,and many have achieved graduate diplomas, as for mediterranean children they of course are just as capable as Jersey born children, we should be totally proud of all young school pupils, they work hard as do the teachers,blame the parents maybe,but most have to work long hours to survive,and may not be able to give their children as much time as they would like to
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Well having read an article from the Education Minister -James Reed, he mentioned that “as part of that we have various arrangements in place to support these individuals including support from the Portuguese government, in that they provide funding for five teachers to support members of their community in our education system”.
I don’t think this has anything to do with the point we are looking into.
We moved to Jersey 5years ago, and I called Education department for their recommendations about schools however, the lady said all the Jersey school were on top compared to the U.K.
I did enrol my children to the State school. They had opportunity to be taught by very good teacher however, when they reached ks2, the standard of education slipped. I found out that:-
1. They were too many parent helpers with no background of teaching. These parents were directly involved with children e.g reading, playing Maths games etc. The funny thing I had a comment written on my daughters literacy book, half of the spellings were airline Jargon!!! Well how can children learn?
2. Head teachers/teachers are not in control. If parents are involved with PTA and contributes something for the school then, the teachers find it very difficult to have boundaries in place! Therefore these parents are involved with not only arranging the fete but also reading with kids etc….
This was damaging for not only my kids but also other children. Since my kids were very able I had to move them to fee-paying State school and I must say they are very happy and so am I.
My conclusion is that State need to fund the school properly in terms of manpower/training etc…
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Education costs us nearly twice as much per pupil as it does in the UK. Are we getting value for money? I know that the local schools boast every year about A level results, but how well are they serving the less academic children and are we stoking up problems for the future?
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RE: JerseyBull 24
All too true.
We have an over staffed Education Department who deluge schools with ill considered initiatives. No initiatives has time to run its course before the next initiative arrives. Is it any wonder that Education has lost its way?
I call on James Reed to impose a three year moratorium on new initiatives and then publish the results.
Will the civil servant tasked with monitoring this blog have the integrity to brief their Minister? Probably not.
Re: Q 26
In good faith you assume too much. How can anybody know anything if the results are kept hidden? I know of one nameless school which suffers from none of the problems (excuses) you rightly highlight where they too achieved poor results.
On your wider points I agree,
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#22 You can put a comma before using the word “and”, depending on the context and the emphasis required. Not all grammar is about strict rules thankfully.
That aside, I do wonder what these required standards are if, as is claimed, private school kids are meeting the required standard. There are plenty of private school kids (primary age) getting private tuition who are clearly not of the standard I would expect they should be. Mind you, private schools need to attract pupils to make money so maybe their figures are being massaged just a little.
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34. Bunkum Buster
I agree the statistics should not be hidden. It might wake up the school and the parents in doing something about it. But releasing headline statistics without some background info can be very dangerous and potentially have the opposite effect.
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Write what you think, spell it as it sounds. Copy and paste to a word file, spell and grammar check it, copy and paste it back to the thread. Everybody thinks you paid attention at school.
Simples, eh.
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Fubar / Mad Foetus
Spot on! These figures in isolation mean nothing. Now big Ben Shenton is storming into the issue and demanding answers and asking why Education Department do not publish exam result by school or catchments area. I think I know why… because it will reveal exactly your points. Then what? We’ll have a media / PC outcry at how Education in Jersey is systematically racist and failing the children of migrants. I don’t blame them for not publishing any further data!
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The education of primary age children started on a downhill slope when teaching reading and writing moved away from the phonetic learning of a, b, c, to flash words etc. This is a dumbass way of teaching and is proving to be totally ineffective.
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#37 Great idea! My friend always misspells ‘inconvenient’ and it’s so nice of the spellcheck to change this to ‘incontinent’.
Kids are NO less capable than my generation were at their age, or even my parents’ generation, we have NOT had a decrease in the overall intelligence level of society. All that is wrong is that WE are doing them a disservice by namby-pambying about and trying to make sure ‘everyone’s a winner’. Everyone can’t be a winner when it comes to spelling or arithmetic, but that doesn’t mean they should be let out of even trying to better themselves. It’s okay that some children are seen to be a little less capable in academic areas as long as we also bother to find out what they’re strengths are.
What is important is not how good each child is relative to others, it’s how good each child is relative to their own potential! Can we just stop all the nonsense and return to proper teaching and just give extra support where it is needed?
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#38 Disagree with your point on racism. It is not the responsibility of Jersey schools to teach English as a second language! It simply isn’t, nor are schools qualified to do this. It is the parents’ responsibility to not put their children in such a difficult position and to go out of their way to rectify the situaton as soon as possible.
I have had friends go to the Netherlands, Italy, France, Japan and their children have learned the language before moving (well one went to an International school), at least to an extent that they could participate in class! I would never put my child’s education at risk by shoving it into an Italian speaking school when it couldn’t speak Itailan. My friends don’t complain that the local schools don’t ‘bend’ to them and they don’t consider it racist!
This racism issue is getting beyond a joke now. Some things are simply not practical and schools in one nation having to deal with kids that have numerous different languages is one such thing. We can be as idealistic as we want but there isn’t the money for all our desires.
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Mr Sensible (comment 31) It is fact that SOME immigrants do not wish to integrate in to Jersey society and so their children do suffer educationally from not being encouraged to speak English at home and with friends.Obviously this is not the case with all of them and hopefully just a minority but it will undoubtedly hold them back at school and could also have a detrimental effect on class mates.I certainly would have been worried sick about my childrens’ education if I had moved them to a foreign country and then expected them to battle on at school without being able to speak the language fluently.
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Well, this has nothing to do with foreign/immigrants etc. Everyone seem to be in the same boat! My children were very able however, they were in a class with some of the children who were below the expected standard. These children were local and spoke fluent English. Unfortunately, they had very little support from their parents.
They would always be in trouble and disruptive in the classrooms. This is so unfair to other kids.
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Mad Foetus #17, regardless of whether others like your comment or not it has an element of truth. Of course there are names that well-educated people will avoid giving their children because names can have consequences. Even though it’s wrong to stigmatise someone due to their name, it does happen, and so people who do not want to hinder their child will avoid certain names? Is it wrong for a parent to avoid certain names? Or is it right for a parent to avoid their child being held back due to a bad choice of name? Either way, I cannot blame them. Of course, by the very action of well-educated people avoiding these names the ‘name stigma’ continues on!
As for foreign names, every child should be given a chance. Still, statistically there is a good chance that a child at primary school in Jersey with a Polish name was born in Poland, or their parents moved here shortly before their birth. Equally a child with a Meditteranean name is statistically likely to be first or second generation, and with an Italian name they may well have been born in Jersey themself. Immigration usually comes in waves and so that’s the way it is.
It’s not racist to point out the statistics, and it’s not racist to see that language issues can affect a child’s education. It is only racist if you make assumptions on that child’s capabilities due to their name. Thankfully statistics allow for the education system to be proactive and see that a child may require extra help with English, hopefully the statistics help the parents foresee that their child may need extra help also.
The best news, of course, is that being raised bilingual these kids will (statistically) outperform children that are not raised bilingual (albeit only be a tiny percentage). Of course, some people would consider it racist to point out that statistic also
Facts are just facts and statistics are just statistics, it’s what we do with them that is the moral issue! And it’s what we do with them that determines whether or not we are racist.
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Do I not remember the teachers in Jersey recently wining about the pay freeze
Maybe this all shows where their priorities lie
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Leah Homes #41
Actually I think we’re saying the same thing. I totally agree the it would be the incorrect conclusion on the situation and borne from political bickering and the hysterical PC types. But until the States decide to put aside their personal hatred for one another and the PC types get a life, the race card is a ‘nice’ option for them to play.
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Leah,
I think there are a number of other issues that arise but one could remove the race issue altogether by simply noting that some schools have catchment areas in much poorer areas than others.
Or is even that too offensive for Mr Sensible, who no doubt finds it beyond the pale to suggest that the outcome of primary education may in any way be related to the social background of the children.
But if he truly thinks:
“as for names having any slant on how the children actually achieve academically is totally ridiculous”
then he has missed the point. The names reflect the social aspirations of the parents. Those who name their children after celebrities display the paucity of their intellectual curiosity. And anyone coming from a background that bequeaths a name like Jayden, Kayden, Britney etc is, unfortunately, disadvantaged from birth.
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#46 Yeah, sorry for that. Think I was too tired and read it wrong, I realised earlier today
Apologies.
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blueskythinking @ 11
Thanks for the link. Interesting and very thought provoking.
My complaint to Deputy Roy Le Hérissier and Education Minister James Reed is WHY are these figures not revealed and explained in detail. We have the right to know, both as parents as well as the tax-payers who ultimately pay for these schools!
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Based on saturday’s article pg 14 it seems everyone is bad at maths including our over paid civil servants. Not only can they not get currency conversions correct now they cannot write down simple figures as it turns out they have submitted the wrong figures for private primary schools.
Again the figures show that you need to look behind the statistics as the average for states primaries which has much more of a sociodemographic mix is approx 33% of pupils leave not attaining the basics for both maths and english. Private schools of pupils leave not attaining the basics for maths 21.5% and 14.5% for english.
The results are still shocking for both states and private schools however considering state schools teach children from a wider demographic the maths statistic is pretty comparable and the gap in english may be explained through english being a second language.
Overall schools and parents need to work together to improve the results whether your child is in a states or private institution and the Civil servants should go back to school.
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Well said Q (# 50)
What gets me is it’s US that are letting the kids down. There has been no decline in the average intelligence of society and today’s kids are every bit as capable of having a good grasp of Maths and English as kids were 50 years ago.
We’re the ones deciding that it’s too hard and we need to make it easier, because the poor souls are tired when they get home from school so school must be too hard. It’s not, learning is tiring. Mental work is just as tiring as physical work. Of course, if the kids were put to bed at reasonable hours they might be less tired and show their full capability.
I get so frustrated because WE are letting these kids down and we are mucking up their future. They are capable and if we could return to some element of 1950’s teaching (where not everyone had to ‘win’) then that would be a good thing.
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I cut all the contributions to this thread and then pasted them to Word.
I made a list of all the wrongly spelled words and considered posting the list to this thread.
There were 64 words wrongly spelled, and 23 errors of grammar.
I really must get out more!
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Wake up 22.
Using a comma before “and” is unnecessary, but not wrong.
There are situations in which, if you don’t use a comma, things become rather muddled. In such cases, a comma before “and” improves readability.
One such situation occurs when we have three or more items in a series, another is when “and” is used to coordinate two independent clauses. . .Oh, and we must not forget personal writing style….especially as this is an informal threaded-discussion and not a language forum.
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mad foetus 47.
I get your point, but what about names like Brooklyn and Cruz? Romeo is exempt due to the Shakespearean Connection.
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Warrior,
Anyone called Brooklyn or Cruz is unlikely to trouble the bursars at any Oxbridge college. Darren, Jason, Trevor – the list of those doomed to a life of failure through their name is legion.
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#54 Undoubtedly kids with those names will have a head start should they pursue a pop music, jazz music or acting career. That’s just the way it is. I know two saxophonists, the one with the far more traditional Scottish name being the far better and the far more charismatic of the two. However, the other Scottish one (with Polish fraternal grandparents) finds it much easier to get gigs. I wonder why!
Then again music is one of the most racist industries you will come across, you just have to look at the MOBOs to see that. And I know people that have been turned down for record deals on the basis that they are white but play ‘black music’.
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17~#I know an English kid named Paddy, a Polish kid named Jack, a Portugese kid named Jody and an Irish kid named Charles-I do not get your point!
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May I just add that I am acquainted with a person bearing the name Henry and he is from Uganda.
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#57, 58 I’m going to guess (using some common sense) that there was probably a generalisation being made. We all know people with anglicised names or who have anglicised their names, it doesn’t change that fact that statistically a name will give some indication of your heritage, and possibly even a good indication of how many generations your family have been in Jersey. Just because it’s not the case for everyone does not stop it being a good indicator.
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Children have so many rights, and so much power they can and many do feel superior to adults. I was always to respect adults, they know more.
I used to deliver to schools and clearly remember three ladies teaching a music class of around 20 primary school kids. They saw me and looked embarrassed. I thought one teacher would have been enough.
Finally an old friend is a primary school headmaster. Of the hundreds of teachers, as with any profession some are clearly uninterested or just poor at their work. He tells me its almost impossible to sack them unless they do something-terrible wrong, which is unlikely.
I feel like most other professions, competency should be rewarded, but so should poor results caused by poor teaching, find another job. Otherwise it’s the children who suffer in the long run, and that surely cannot be right.
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I think the discussion has gone off on a tangent. This discussion is about maths and english results in primary schools. Thoughts please……..
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Leah Holmes 56.
Leah, mad foetus seems to think that an inelegant name indicates lack of refinement (in other words “low social class”) and generally has a negative impact on education and employment prospects.
While I agree with mf’s assessment in part, I am not fully convinced. Hence my example of ‘Brooklyn and Cruz’ (the names of Beckham’s offsprings) who, despite their ‘unrefined names’, will never be descriminated against. Because wealth has its appeal and camouflages lack of sobriety and good taste…so really, it’s the cash behind a name that counts!
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Leah, mad foetus seems to think that an inelegant name indicates lack of refinement (in other words “low social class”) and generally has a negative impact on education and employment prospects. While I agree with mf’s assessment in part, I am not fully convinced. Hence my example of ‘Brooklyn and Cruz’ (the names of Beckham’s offsprings) who, despite their ‘unrefined’ names, will never be descriminated against. Because wealth has its appeal and camouflages lack of sobriety and good taste…so really, it what’s behind a name that counts!
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I came from a family where a good education was the basis of everything! I went to a states primary and states fee-paying secondary and I can tell you there is a big difference! The fee-paying schools encourage independance and that is the key to pupils wanting to better themselves! At the end of the day the pupil has to want to learn and the parents have a massive role to play if they want their children to get anything from their education. You cannot put all the responsibility on the teacher, they have 30 kids each and can’t possibly give them all individual attention.
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I think it’s a mixer of every thing….
Education not giving the correct help to certain students. I know a child who left secondary school without being able to read and write properly this was last year.
Parents not helping with home work or caring how well their child does from a young age.
I did some voluntary work at a primary school and I’ve also worked as a TA in a secondary school. Discipline starts at home and the way some of these children speak to teachers, swearing, throwing chairs spitting etc, I’ve seen this in yr 3 age 7-8 year olds may be even younger. Which yes disrupts the whole class
Damn right Teachers should want more money with what they have to deal with nowadays.. TA wages are around £10-11k hence why I left as I couldn’t live off those wages…
Yes children should be able to speak some English, however I know that some schools provide TEFL ( teaching English as a foreign language)
Some people come to another country through work or what ever situation they are in you can’t always expect them to know the language, maybe Schools could provide CD’s and DVD’s that children could watch or listen to the 1st few weeks of starting school on breaks or certain lessons that would be too difficult for the child until they can string a few words together
On a positive note a lot of the children help each other when there is a language barrier which I think is really sweet
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I too went to both states school and private school and yes there was a massive difference. The educational standards were higher and more was expected of you. I went from a school where no homework was given to a private one where you had 2 hours plus a night and I was only 11. I doubt I would have left secondary school with any qualifications if I had remained states educated. So it made a difference to me.
Therefore I doubt private schools are turning out illiterate children, as they expect more out of them, as do the parents who are spending their hard earned cash on their childrens’ education.
Yes you are right Michelina there are some badly behaved children about and some parents seem to egg them on. I for one wouldn’t want to be a teacher today as many have no respect shown to them from either kids or parents. I wonder how long some of these people involved in this would last at work if they had the same lack of respect shown them?
Teachers and teaching assistants especially should be paid more. I doubt many could hack up to 30 terrors and their parents all day for 40 odd weeks.
Another thing which I think has been responsible for the dumbing down of children, for quite some time, is the TV. This is often used as a pasifier by parents who are too busy to spend time with their children when they are home. Far easier to turn on the telly and leave the kids to their own devices.
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Adrian hits the nail on the head when he says:
“I doubt private schools are turning out illiterate children, as they expect more out of them”
Children will generally live up to the expectations that are placed on them. So many people these days seem to have zero expectations for either their own life or their children and I agree with Adrian that much of the blame lies with the TV. Not many children from Eastenders go to university, yet that is what “real life” is, according to the publicly funded BBC.
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Language does have a large part to play in this. If english is not their first language then of course it’s going to affect literacy and mathematics….as well as any other subject (apart from maybe PE).
I have pals who live in Spain and their children go to school there. They are not given any preferential treatment to speak english and unless they learn the native tongue then they do not learn…period. As the children have become fluent in Spanish this has also enabled them to integrate a lot easier with the locals.
It’s not rocket science.
One of the main problems as I see it is how the children and parents choose to live. For example, if the parents are non-workers, with all luxuries afforded to them whilst picking up state benefit for their trouble, helping them to continue their daily existence scoffing take-aways washed down with cheap booze whilst watching Jeremy Kyle….then what example does that set the young ones. They are more likely to want to jump on this gravy train for an easy (paid for by the taxpayer) life!
What incentive is there for them (or their parents to encourage them) to learn in order to help them get a career???
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#62, they will be discriminated against should they have the intelligence to attempt to get into any academic field! They’ll be famous right enough (and their names will help), but we don’t all just want fame and they may not just want fame.
#61 if we set the targets to a realistic level we would find that children were failing even more. The levels we are assessing just now are pathetic! The children are capable of far more. Of course a lot of a child’s education is at home, it is not all in the school. Schools teach but home is where a lot of what they have been taught is allowed to ‘bed in’ as they read with parents or do their homework. I have heard of parents who do their child’s homework for them, they don’t want their child to fail, and they don’t want to spend the time helping their child pass either! It’s ridiculous and it’s pathetic.
Some will say that parents don’t have the time. Well if you have kids you have to find a way to make the time, it’s really not optional. If that means that you have no life for 18 years then it’s unfortunate, but that’s the way it is. There are (a very small number) that may genuinely need to work very long hours for more money (these will usually be people that were fine but have fallen on hard times) but there are plenty of others that could live on less money and give up some luxuries and start properly valuing their child’s education! We have too many parents not caring, but thinking that they really do care. Your actions show your priorities, not what you say.
It’s great to provide your child with the home and the car and the TV etc. but your child will fair better in life if it actually has the education to be able to give itself a good life when you are long gone!
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