Jersey Finance chief executive Geoff Cook
JERSEY should foster closer links with Europe, according to the head of Jersey Finance.
Geoff Cook believes that the Island has developed its own international personality, which means it should deal directly with the EU rather than go through the UK.
He also said that Jersey could work with Guernsey to establish a Channel Islands presence in Europe.
Speaking at yesterday’s Institute of Director’s lunch at the Grand Hotel, Mr Cook said that with the UK’s blessing Jersey should forge a closer affiliation with the EU.
‘I think relationships have changed very much,’ he explained. ‘We traditionally dealt entirely through the UK, but now we have our own international personality and direct engagement with a number of G20 countries, talking to them about tax exchange agreements and tax information.’
Article posted on 10th November, 2009 - 2.58pm
46 Article Comments
Why would we want to deal with the EU when we are not part of it and don’t have the same basic courtesies afforded to others, sorry silly me it’s all about the MONEY GOD isn’t it !!!
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Why should Jersemen want to further surrender their sovereignty and independence to the European Collective Police State Dictatorship. It’s long over due for Jersey to stand up and declare Dominion Status, (as in Canada, Australia) write our own Constitution, including our own Bill of Rights, with “Freedom of Speech” as its bedrock and conduct our finance industry to suit the Island’s needs and tell the German led EU Dictatorship where it can go – 1939 all over again and some of us have seen it all before – Why is it always the sleeping idiot enemy within who are so willing to give up everyone’s freedom, including their own, for a lousy bowl of pottage?
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Only last week we were proudly told that Jersey’s finance industry’s future lay with communist China.
Today, it’s Brussels and the European Union where our salvation lies.
When things go wrong in Jersey’s fiscal relationship with Europe, the great and the good of the finance industry will come crawling, cap in hand, to the UK government.
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Sure we can approach Europe and tell them we want to deal directly with them – and they will say
“who the hell are you?”
To which we can reply, “were a little tin pot nowhere racist island with a population comparable to an outside toilet in Europe” oh yeh, that’ll cut some mustard with the big boys.
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Mogit # 1 is right about the Money God – we should always remember what Socrates said,”He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” i.e. Contentment is not in wealth, but wealth is in contentment.
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Agree with you jerseybull.
The gestapo headquarters in brussels are controlling every aspect of our lives,and we are not even members of the eu.
Even though uk are not full members about 80-90%of all these new rules are under the “guidance”of the eu,and as jersey tends to copy all the bad laws of uk we are caught between a rock and a hard place.
The best thing the uk could do is pull out of the eu altogether and put the GREAT back into britain
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Mogit – We are not extended the same courtesis as member nations of the EU, and that is exactly why we need to engage them.
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JERSEY BULL. concise,accurate and salient…it is so good to read what you say, I hope those with some sway take on board your wise counsell, for we seem to be rapidly sinking into a social and economical quagmire.we have a unique opportunity to insure a realy good future with a quality of life,and like you I fear those in power sleepwalking us into capitulation with something avoidable and will squander that opportunity which will NOT come again.well said.
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#2 JerseyBull: ‘…tell the German led EU Dictatorship where it can go – 1939 all over again and some of us have seen it all before’
It’s amazing how the mere mention of Europe seems to lead to comments like this.
#4 bella: ‘The gestapo headquarters in brussels are controlling every aspect of our lives’
Do they really do this?
Also, I thought the UK was a full member of the EU.
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Can anyone tell me if a Jersey born person with parents also born in Jersey is still unable to work in Europe?
If so then why should anyone in Jersey be governed by European laws. Other than the obvious argument that the politicians in Jersey are not fit to govern anybody.
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No.6 Bella-but you forget that America is controlling Britain’s strings.
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I have never read so much hysterical Eurosceptic nonsense, with references to Brussels and German Gestapo, from your previous contributors.
I am sure none of those readers who experienced the repression of the Occupation, would recognise anything remotely similar when visiting Europe
As someone with experience of dealing authorities, in countries like the Soviet Union, Middle Eastern nations and parts of Latin America,
I can assure you that countries like Germany and France are the most free and tolerant in the World.
The EU was was originally set up shortly after WW2 to secure democracy in Western Europe and secure it from a resurgence of Nazism or ambitions of Stalinist Communism.
Off-shore jurisdictions, heavily dependent on financial services are facing a difficult time.
It may well be in Jersey’s long term interests to assert greater independence from the UK, which itself may break up, should Scotland achieve its own independence, which is widely supported north of the Border.
I doubt if it would benefit the Island to apply for full membership of the European Union, but it is necessary conduct dialogue with Europe, to well as elsewhere in the world to achieve satisfactory business arrangements.
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#9
the uk is not a full member yet—that is why they are still not using the EURO currency.
They pay the most money into the EU fund and are getting nothing back.
OAP,s are the lowest paid in europe,with the highest or one of cost of living.
All these stupid laws are started from eu.
ie fisheries political correctness nanny state etc.
The only thing that has been rescinded is the crooked banana which markets can now sell again!!
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If Jersey wants closer links with the EU then why not just join it? Oh silly me the rich and finance would have to go elsewhere wouldn’t they?
Why oh Why the situation reference what defines a Jersey person, according to the EU, is someone who has all parents and all grandparents born in Jersey and who was themselves born in Jersey. These people are regarded as outside of the EU and have no right to work there. Everyone else doesn’t have this mark on their passport.
Which begs the obvious question how can non EU citizens have an EU passport??
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in response to 10. why oh why
I had to get a new passport recently and not only does it have ‘the stamp’ but this is now surrounded by a metal strip with a chip in it – to stop it being removed maybe? So no we still can’t work in Europe but all of Europe can work or sorry should I say live here!
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“Can anyone tell me if a Jersey born person with parents also born in Jersey is still unable to work in Europe?”
Emphatically yes, I have a couple of friends doing precisely that, quite why you would want to is beyond me. Jersey is safer, prettier, better paid with no commute issues – only a local would fail to realise that they already have it as good as it gets.
Tried to tell my friends, they wouldn’t have it now they are doing crap jobs for no money in a crime ridden dump in France – still travel broadens the mind ( or it will do when someone sticks an axe in their heads )
The no non EU countries can work in the EU rule is the same as the 5 year rule over here, comprehensively ignored in practice.
What locals fail to understand is that they have voted not to be part of Europe, in doing this they have many exclusive benefits including offshore status for their financial institutions. Basically they want the benefits of being in Europe with none of the disadvantages, same as they want cheap imported labour but don’t want non locals to live here.
Jersey great place – lousy locals.
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#11
America is pulling all the strings not only in uk,but eu too.
america is the 1 to watch.
Whenever it says jump the uk & eu asks how high.
they are the biggest threat to our security.
Everything america does they expect western word to follow and most of the time it does.
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“So no we still can’t work in Europe but all of Europe can work or sorry should I say live here!”
Sure they can in overpriced dumps doing lousy jobs that locals wouldn’t touch. They can even have the same rights as you if they stick it for 12 years – as you rightly say, it’s not fair.
Adrain has already explained why you can’t work in Europe – because you don’t want to be part of Europe. I don’t see you refusing the obvious benefits being apart from Europe brings – cake and eat it, that’s the locals.
Why do we continue to have local whinge about not being able to work in Europe when they have gone to great lenghts to not be part of it? You can either join and lose offshore status or continue as you are and enjoy one of the best lifestyles on the planet.
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No.17 Bella-not all the countries jumped to help America and Britain during the Sadam Hussain saga. France was very cautious.
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Keith unfortunately differences can tend to breed contempt anywhere in the world whether it be race, colour or religion.
Dee Mented it isn’t necessarily that the locals don’t want to be a part of the EU. There was no referendum on this, it was decided by the Jersey government, a bit like what happened with the UK when they went into the EEC in 1973.
I believe Jersey’s best position would have been to have negotiated to have joined the EEC in 1973 whilst negotiating to keep their fledgling finance business. This would have given Jersey the best of both worlds, and meant Jersey was part of Europe instead of being outside/opposed to it. The reason I say this is because the UK joined, so it would have been logical for Jersey to have maintained its continuity with its main outside link by doing so.
As per qualies Jersey people also have to have 11 years under their belt before they can buy or live in qualified rental accommodation. The only ones whom this doesn’t apply to are the 1.1.k’s who don’t have to do the 11 years but can buy immediately.
As per lousy jobs this happens in every country. Even in the UK they bring in cheaper foreign labour to do these type of jobs so it isn’t peculiar to Jersey. In the UK people are starting to get upset now this foreign labour is getting welfare and housing etc.
Other nationals come to Jersey as even a lousy job in Jersey in bad accommodation is better than what they had back home.
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Adrian comment 20 – As per qualies Jersey people also have to have 11 years under their belt before they can buy or live in qualified rental accommodation.
Sure they do, this means that a locally born person must be at least 11 years old before they can buy a property. Chances are they won’t have a job till they are 16 so in reality they are born with the right.
Agree with what you say about the EU as for not having a referendum, when did the Jersey government last listen to the public or give them a say anyway.
Supermarkets anyone?
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I aws never asked if I wanted to be part of Europe or not. Where does Dee-mented get this idea from?
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#13 bella
I’m afraid the UK is a member of the EU despite not using the Euro. Other member states that don’t use the Euro are Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Poland, Romania and Sweden.
I’d still be intersted to know how all your examples affect Jersey.
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#20 Adrian
1(1)(k)s do not qualify for either A-J accommodation or any form of rented property. They are required to buy a house worth at least £1m, usually before they settle here.
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Alexa 22 – I aws never asked if I wanted to be part of Europe or not. Where does Dee-mented get this idea from?
By electing a government who keep Jersey out of Europe the Jersey people are effectively choosing not to be part of it. By not voting out elected officials who maintain this view it is perpetuated.
Or did you think that voting didn’t matter.
I assume that your unique spelling of was is a typo, unless you are one of the 33% of students falling below the required grade for literacy.
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Dee Mented – The decision to keep Jersey out of the EU was made in the seventies when I was still at school in Jersey, so I wouldn’t have been able to vote anyway. Perhaps you weren’t in Jersey at that time?
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#10 YES, they still are. Unbelievably so, especially when you have #4 calling JERSEY racist. No-one is stopping EU countries from deciding (individually) that Jersey people have rights there?
#16 Keith, why should Jersey be held to ransom just to get equality? If people do not want to join the EU they shouldn’t have to, to my mind Jersey should only join if it is what the majority of citizens want. Jersey should not have been allowed to be screwed over by the UK’s liaison with the EU either, that was appalling. If you, personally, wish to be a part of the EU then no-one is stopping you moving to a country that already is. I do not wish to be a part of the EU and never will wish this.
Clearly the 5-year rule does get ignored here (in ALL levels of work), however, to my knowledge it only gets ignored in EU countries at a low level of work. You say yourself that your friends are doing rubbish jobs. That’s not equality. You may say that certain nationalities over here only get to do low-level work, but the ones I’ve met (and they are now numerous) did the same level of work back home, they were not lawyers, doctors, accountants…
We shouldn’t forget that Jersey is small and somewhat restricted in size compared to every other nation that is within the EU, we have different requirements. That’s just life and it’s not something we can change. We are too small to allow ourselves to be controlled by a ‘nation’ the size of the EU, we will not matter to them one bit and will simply be ridden over. Pretty much the way the UK is being!
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No.26 Leah-totally agree with you that Jersey should be independent due to it’s size in comparison with the EU countries. The global idea is to stop money laundering and illegal practice within the finance industry. However, Jersey has proved it is quite transparent in this respect and not be hassled anymore by the UK or the EU.
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C Nile the point reference qualifications I was making was that both locals and non locals have to do 11 years.
So no, locals are not born with that right as they still have to be in Jersey for 11 years.
As an example say a Jersey born person leaves the island soon after they were born because their parents move elsewhere, should this person come back at say the age of 20 they would have to wait 11 years to get their qualifications.
One thing I would say is why come to a place if you don’t like what they are doing, e.g housing regs? Seems a bit daft to me. I would go somewhere were I was happy and not to a place I had grips with. Maybe the pound signs are too much of a lure?
Michael Neal so what are saying is that 1.1k’s can buy a house before they even set foot in Jersey? This isn’t extended to anyone else not even locals is it? As per £1M this is not expensive now in Jersey terms. As per not qualifying under A-J surely this is irrelevant as would they be wanting to in a £250,000 one bed flat in the centre of town? Me thinks not.
Dee Mented the point is the local population were denied the right to choose EU membership just as those in the UK were also denied the right to choose to stay out. Surely this is wrong?
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Adrian
what about the person who popped over to Jersey, saw a new build, I wont say where or which company and said fine I will have ten of them.
If they could afford that then surely they would qualify for 11k status but they didnt need to to spend such a vast amount of money. It also shows that quallies dont really mean much afterall as long as you dont live in it you can just reap the rewards and not live here. Its the same in many places I know but many places are a lot bigger than Jersey and can cope with selling en masse to a landlord.
Where this relates to your post is that the said person didnt even need to step foot in the island, they could have simply trusted the developer. So whether you are 11k or not is irrelevant.
I personally feel if you dont like it dont come here in the first place, why would you go live somewhere when you know from the outset you will be treated bad. I am Jersey born so I stay here and although not wealthy I do have my own flat, sorry the bank does. But if I decide to move anywhere else then the first thing I will do, and frankly have done, is check out what I can expect from the place.
I might have gone off topic there but am leaving my views for the likes those who didnt have to come here and therefore should stop whining about being here.
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Adrian – C Nile the point reference qualifications I was making was that both locals and non locals have to do 11 years.
So no, locals are not born with that right as they still have to be in Jersey for 11 years.
Adrian those who choose to leave the island and foregoe their quallies do so knowing full well what they are doing. Can’t imagine why they would leave other than they don’t know what side their bread is buttered. The vast majority who are born and remain here are effectively born with quallies as by the time they can buy they have already had quals for a number of years.
As to why people come here and grip ( gripe? )
They do so because it offers employment and a standard of living above their indiginous country, doesn’t make the racist 2 tier system right though does it?
The truth is as all of us non locals know, local born people are born with a huge advantage, they live in a wealthy island with good schools, relatively little crime and until recently full employment. They are permitted to buy property from the off and need never know what it’s like to live in a 12X12 bedsit for 20 years before being permitted to live like a local.
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C. Nile if you are taken from Jersey as a baby because you father serves in the army, for example, you will not have had a choice in this, neither will you be awarded the time for nothing you still will have to do your qualificaton period when you finally arrive back in Jersey.
With accommodation yes I agree it is wrong. However when there is only a set number of houses what do you propose to do about it? Push the locals out to allow new people in to get a house ahead of them because it is unfair on newcomers to be stuck in bad accommodation?
As per this bad accommodation the states should be sorting this out and taking any unsuitable accommodation off the market. It should also have a proper immigration policy. Jersey cannot keep taking in 500 or whatever number people per year it will only make things worse for those already here and cause strife.
Even the UK realises too many people is a bad thing. People should be spread out more evenly around the world. There are countries with low population levels, like Australia, which can take in people, so why go to an over populated place and put even more pressure on the infrastructure etc?
Yes it would be great if Jersey could take in everyone who wants to come here. I would be delighted if this were possible. However in reality we all know this is impossible don’t we? So what are we going to do about it then? As far as I am concerned the island will end up ruined for everyone if we carry on as we are. I don’t want this, do you?
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#31 So very black and white.
I’m non-local and I don’t consider myself particularly disadvantaged (just a tiny bit). I don’t live in a bedsit either. In fact, I know many non-locals and none of them live in bedsits (and yes, some of them are on low wages).
Where you live is not only determined by your qualification status (as some on this website would like everyone to think) it is mostly determined by your job. I found a good job before I came here, one that ensured I could just about afford to live here. Others come and knock on doors, only having experience in low-skilled jobs and then people moan ‘on their behalf’ when all they can get here is a low-skilled job.
The fact is that there are good jobs here and there are good places to live IF you personally are actually capable of doing those jobs. If you turn up and go round knocking on doors looking for work then you will be very limited in the work you get and it will most likely be minimum wage. Also, within our work there are staff that we would like to be able to promote to a more senior level, they have the skill for it but not a good enough grasp of English. They will be hindered greatly within the job market until such times as they have better English, even if they get their qualifications. These are the harsh realities of economic migration, you choose to move and you make sacrifices to do so. We cannot all have what we want all the time. Making sacrifices is something we have to do in all areas of life (like when people have kids etc) it is not just when migrating.
Although not an economic immigrant I made sacrifices to come here (leaving behind family and friends, a better paid job, larger flat, better amenities etc) but I chose to secure a good job before moving and would not have moved if I didn’t have a good job to go to.
It is a choice and when you make it you know there are sacrifices you will have to make.
None of the other immigrants I’m friendly with moan about their situation, they chose to be here and they prefer being here. I have noticed, however, that a lot of previous immigrants (now with quallies) and even some locals moan ‘on their behalf’. I wonder if it is really ‘on their behalf’, just for the sake of having a moan themselves, OR is it just for the sake of trying hard to be seen to be PC (like politicians trying to say the ‘right thing’ to win favour).
If Jersey didn’t have the current qualification system it would have to find some other way to control immigration (due to the fact it is a finite-sized lump of rock), no doubt that method would be considered racist also. I doubt there is any method of population control that will keep everyone happy!
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Bella above commented that the UK is not itself a full member of the EU.
As a public and constitutional lawyer I would just like to say that the UK is very much a full member of the EU- the opt out from adopting the EURO currency has nothing to do with membership
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Fair comment from both Adrian and Leah, to address the points made. I did come here over 30 years ago at which time the qualification period was 20 years. The available accommodation at that time was either bedsits or shared housing with someone with quals. There were simply not the range of NQ flats that we have now, principally because they were hotels pre conversion.
The first time I met anyone with NQ who had anything more than a bedsit it was a lawyer who had a small NQ flat, at that time over 20 years ago it cost £750pcm. There are far more NQ flats and house conversions than ever there was when I arrived.
Agree also re getting a good job, I came over unskilled and studied nights and weekends to get a degree, granted not everyone can do this. People who choose not to learn more English than is absolutely necessary do limit their options, strangely this applies more to Portuguese people then Polish who seem to adapt very quickly.
Now the answer to immigration, simply to close the door and cherry pick those that we want to live her,presumably based on skill sets that would benefit the island. I now have quals and own a house, I worked hard and saved for many years to buy the house but the standard of living is so much higher than it was in a bedsit that I consider it worth the wait.
I just feel that it is grossly unfair that the states do not change the present system that encourages abuse. I know a young lady who works in hospitality. She rented a room in a house, she could only use that room, not the lounge and was only permitted to use the microwave in the kitchen, she could use the washing machine once a week, on her day off the landlady would wake her up at 0900 and insist that she got up and went out of the house.To think that this still goes on appals me, we need a fairer system that benefits both us and our imported workforce.
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Matt
A point well made and whilst we are on the subject the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution either; so trying to blame the EU for Human Rights issues is a little bit wide of the mark. The EU was set up by the Treaty of Rome as a way of binding Europe together and stopping the Germans goose stepping all over the place every few years nibbling off bits of other countries in order to have more ‘living space’. It’s a little bit building an extension on your house and pinching a bit of the neighbour’s garden.
Remember at the time of the treaty Germany had engaged in a bit of boundary moving on three occasions with the poor old French losing Alsace and Lorraine for about 40 years. The treaty used the prospect of free trade and increased interdependence as a way of binding countries so closely that they could no longer go to war with each other. As far as Western Europe is concerned this is the longest period of peace we have ever had. That surely has to be a good thing?
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34
So i believe,i know they were not full members for a long time when france and other countries were.i just don,t remember any announcements telling us they had become full members.
So they are now in a worse position and can never opt out?
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#29 Adrian
Absolutely correct. As long as you understand that 1(1)(k)s cannot rent property (qualified or non-qualified) and cannot buy most A-J accommodation.
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Thanks Michael I do realise that 1.1k’s wouldn’t be wasting their money on lining someone elses pockets, when they have the option to buy.
As per most A-J properties I don’t think they would be interested do you? So these are left for the plebs to fight over.
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#35 Totally agree with your last two paragraphs. Though, I can’t help but think that if Jersey cherry picks that Jersey young people will be left having to date people already on the island. This is unfair given the population. People should be free to meet the love of their life abroad, bring them to Jersey and those partners should be allowed to work as a local would. This simply means that the States have to be on the lookout for the ‘I want a green card’ type situation. But in my case it’s quite obvious that I am here to be with the man I love because the UK had everything I needed, there’s no other reason I would be here.
I believe the accommodation situation probably has changed a little since you arrived in Jersey. I do believe you that there are still some terrible situations going on, but I also believe that there are similar situations in the UK where it happens to both UK and non-UK citizens. These individual situations need dealt with seriously. Totally agree with that.
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#39 Adrian
You’ve missed the point. It’s not that they wouldn’t (though I agree with that). It’s that they can’t.
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Keith
Posted November 11, 2009 at 2:53 pm
“Emphatically yes, I have a couple of friends doing precisely that, quite why you would want to is beyond me. Jersey is safer, prettier, better paid with no commute issues – only a local would fail to realise that they already have it as good as it gets.”
Keith, sadly we don’t all share your personal utopia. In my Jersey anti-social behaviour is a growing daily (and nightly) sufference. Most of my wage is taken up on overpriced rent, bills, and neccessities of life. I’m forced to rely on public transport, which often creates serious personal commute issues. That’s as good as it gets for me.
You will no doubt respond by telling me I’m one of those “lously locals” you refer to, and “there is a boat in the morning”. Believe me, if I were able to save the cash to build a new life elsewhere in Europe, I would already be gone.
Mybe you can point me in the direction of your Jersey and I can move there instead?
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Michael as you well know this has no effect on 1.1k’s does it? Whereas the housing regulations for the rest of the plebs do and have a profound impact at that.
Why should 1.1k’s be exempt from the qualification to buy regulations that affect all the rest even those as defined as Jersey by the EU?
For those of you new to Jersey who are wondering why the locals complain about things now you weren’t here when the quality of life was much better. Others may not value quality of life, maybe because they aren’t used to one, but Jersey people do and they don’t want it ruined.
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#43 Adrian
None of your post relates to what I wrote.
Regular readers will know that you disagree with the current rules for 1(1)(k)s. We’ve discussed this at length. Let’s agree to disagree.
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Well said Sandra (comment 42)although Keith’s assumption that his friends would end up being axed was the funniest part of his post!It reminded me of how my late mother was convinced that when I left Jersey to set up home in England I would end up a prisoner in my own home as everyone in the UK was a prospective serial killer or drug fuelled maniac.Happily I managed to prove her wrong and I now find that when I return to Jersey I find the streets of St Helier very intimidating compared to the tranquility of where I now live.
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Re 1.1ks – from what I have seen 1.1ks seem able to buy as much property was they want once they have got established here. And that means property of any price – the house opposite me was bought by one for his accountant.
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