Dr Susan Turnbull
THE cost of going to doctors and dentists is now so high that more than half of Islanders are not having routine health checks, says a major new study.
According to the Jersey Annual Social Survey 2009, which was published this morning, almost one in ten people (8%) said that the cost of a visit to the GP was so expensive that ‘it stops me from going’.
Of the remainder, more than half (51%) said that they only went when they really had to because of the cost.
The figures for dentists were even higher, with 51 per cent of people saying that the price of care stopped them going.
The Deputy Medical Office of Health, Dr Susan Turnbull, said today that when she first arrived in Jersey she had been concerned that people would not receive the care they needed because of the cost – and that the survey seemed to confirm those fears.
Article posted on 22nd December, 2009 - 3.00pm
49 Article Comments
It’s higher in Guernsey with a doctors consultation costing £37.50 plus £2.50 per item on prescriptions. Speaking personally I am happy to pay it because the quality of care I recieve is so much better than the UK, my doctor has time to speak to me and he is an outstanding doctor.
I agree i don’t go unless I really need to but isn’t that how it should be?
As for dentists, good quality professionals but prices are so high that inevitably I neglect my teeth, I don’t go unless I’m in pain.
I always thought that if a dentist were to set up surgery charging more reasonable rates he would clean up, £600 for a crown is a bit steep ( unless it’s Queen Elizabeth’s )
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And they needed a survey to figure this one out? It is common knowledge that being a dentist or a doctor in Jersey is just a licence to print money, but don’t bother asking the Competition Regulator to step in, especially with the dentists because, (and excuse the pun), they have no teeth and may as well be disbanded.
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The price of doctors and dentist are extremely expensive alot of people can not afford it but the what is really sad is that children’s teeth are being neglected because of the cost. The are only covered by the school up to their last year in junior school but still if they are lucky see the school dentist once a year.
I would like to go to the dentist on a quarterly basis but I can’t afford to.
What can the states do to ease the cost that will encourage people to go to the dentist and doctors without facing a huge bill at the end of their visit.
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I know our family certainly can not afford to go to the dentist as often as we should, the only exception is our daughter, my wife and I would rather go without so we can afford for her to go, but this is normally a large proportion of our monthly budget gone, which means cutting out family outings or other necessities.
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so what are they going to do about it?
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I get well looked after at the diabetic centre, I can live with £25 to see the GP, as my monthly script is now free ( saving approx £15) but I can not live with local dental fees. This year I saved up £700, paid £130 air fare, and went to London for essential dental treatment that I should have had done ages ago. The total bill was less than half the price I was quoted here for two crowns and other stuff (crowns £600, other stuff £120 London, £750 each here). And of course local dentists will say “but if it all goes wrong “…etc, which matters not one jot – it’s still cheaper to go to the UK and have any probs sorted. Anyhow, does the fact that we pay twice as much locally guarantee local dentists don’t cock-up either? I don’t think so, I’ve had simple fillings fall out long before the six month reminder card turned up and was it fixed for ‘free’? was it b*ggery. I had to pay again.
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Why has is taken a States official years to find out what the people have known for ages – will it change anything – that’s a resounding no then !!!
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as i did not take part in this study, and avoid the doctor and dentist due to cost, getting time off and parking. the actual figure of those of us who find it, too expensive , could be higher.
lucky that i am , when i take my holidays, i can find a affordable dentist, and get a good health check, with a written report, for a good price.
no need for bupa fees, or months of delay to see someone.
i also hear that care in france is a good deal cheaper also.
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Loadsa people going to Poland to get Teeth done…about a fifth of the cost….local dentists eg: root canal filling and crown…£800–some more. so same as retailers are losing money to the internet, count the collective cost of all those people taking their quids abroad to affordable dentistry and soon there will be less of you as the demand plummets…..you could avert this of course by charging more affordable rates,which in turn would have you used more frequently…and so any perceived loss may not be as bad as you think…..But hey why be reasonable..you live in greedville Jersey where money is God.
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I think the survey into the costs of visiting Dentists & Doctors confirms what everybody knows, they are too high and people’s well-being is affected as a result.
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I’ve had the misfortune of breathing recycled air near people who should have been “sectioned” under the Dental Health Act.
All because dentists have priced themselves out of the market.
Luckily, doctors can often be bypassed by good advice from pharmacists.
Come on Jersey, lead the world with a health service that is based on care, not obscene profit.
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There is a repeat prescription culture in Jersey
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Sorry but I don’t think we need a survey to tell us that unless they were going to do something about it.I am sure that I am not the only one who will wait until I have a few things wrong with me before I see a doctor to justify the cost.I have not been to a Dentist for a few years although I make sure my chidren go twice a year for a check up which takes about 5min and then the cursory 5min polish-cost £60 and for a teenager is daylight robbery.By the time they are able to pay their own Dentists bill I will be looking for a loan for a set of dentures!
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With a cost of a visit at 25 pounds, in my opinion, money has nothing to do with people not going to Gps. Anyone should be able to afford that. If they can’t The States can help through Income Support. The real problem is a lack of medical specialists such as gynaecologists, allergists, geriatricians, consultant paediatricians etc. a lot of people have very little faith in general practitioners. Over the years I changed my gps five times because they had been giving me medicines they shouldn’t have(there was no improvement). I only found out that when I visited a specialist in my native country . Lack of specialist knowledge is the reason why I stopped going to gps over here. I bet a lot of people in Jersey think the same.
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So let’s deal with all illnesses once serious and create vast waiting lists for even basic consultations.
NB Howsabout a hospital consultant saying ‘you need a repeat prescription for a long-term illness but if I write it it’ll come out of our budget so you will have to get it from your doctor.’
I tried explaining that I didn’t have £32 that month to pay the doctor and he looked at me uncomprehendingly.
NBB Little bird says Drs’ fees are due to go up significantly in new year due to new States agreement. Watch how that doesn’t get debated until it’s too late.
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When I lived in Jersey I ended up having my teeth seen to in South Africa, much cheaper – but then I was lead to believe that there is a cartel in Jersey – if you arrive to take over a practice YOU are told what to charge!!! and that has been going on for years. I do not think doctors overcharge at all, very reasonable. We now live in a third world country and the doctors charge the same, but the dentists one fifth cheaper – get onto it Jersey you are meant to be a rich island, although over the past few years badly run!
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re seeing the doctor, its swings and roundabouts. Yes we do pay to see a GP here but, as someone else mentioned, you get a meaningful consultation whereas in the UK the doctors are so rushed so 5 mins usually the max. And we get free prescriptions.
As for the dentists, well Jersey is definitely treasure island for them. So we get the lower qualified and ones with more limited specialist skills. I would go to the UK or mainland Europe for any significant work on that front. And just make sure you use the mouthwash twice daily so you can avoid that bunch as much as possible. I think we need to flood Jersey with J cat dentists to get to a reasonable level of charges but obviously that’s not going to happen in a hurry.
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I agree, five minutes spent with a doctor for £32, explaining to him that my back is sore, only for his professional diagnosis to be that I have a “sore back”, and I should make a return appointment if my back is still sore in a week’s time!!!
Although I haven’t lowered myself to turning up at the hospital’s A&E department, every time one of my children have the sniffles, I am sure this time will come.
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If people brushed their teeth 3 times a day or more then dentist visits would be reduced. British dentistry is a butt of jokes especially among american people for the state of their teeth but bearing in mind costs are huge here and treatment abroad is becoming much more popular with extras thrown in like spa resorts. I personally am tempted by this. The longer the decay the more expensive it becomes, i know that through one tooth of mine recently but i also to scared to go through the cost in the first place. They also rip you off with un nessessary charges for x ray emergency treatment etc ,treatment you never asked for. I could go on. Lucky my health so far is good(touch wood) so doctor visits are only once every five years!
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Pardon the intrusion (and by a “foreigner” at that) but it appears to me from reading these columns that there is widespread dissatisfaction with many aspects of life in Jersey.
Now, this is a serious question: are there any aspects of life on your island with which you are happy?
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“Jersey you are meant to be a rich island, although over the past few years badly run!”
Just how badly run it is depends very much on where you stand, Geraldine. For the most part, it is being run to suit the people who run it. They like it that way and “If you don’t like it there’s a ….” etc.
We all need to realise that, short of a miracle, Jersey is going to become more and more of a rich mens’ playground as time goes by.
This is how they want it. Make no mistake they are going to get it because they have money and the power that money buys. With money to spare as well. Nobody in that league is going to give up their lifestyle willingly so that others will have a better deal, they just don’t think that way.
Don’t be surprised if the island eventually becomes a gated community for wealthy people. The gate will be at the French end of the bridge.
The essential trades and services will only be welcome if they play by the rules.
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I’d be interested to hear a dentist’s view on why they charge so much. I don’t find going to my GP to be too bad, but I haven’t been to a dentist for years due to the cost. In theory, going for a checkup isn’t too costly, but before you know it they’ve got their harpoon gun veering in your your mouth under the premise of just “tidying up a few fillings”. After that ordeal you then have the pleasure of walking to the reception to be met with a bill for hundreds of pounds. Why? Are the materials they use THAT expensive?
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British dentistry is a butt of jokes especially among american people – because we have better things to worry about than suspiciously over-perfect teeth. We’re not so shallow!
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Agree dentists charge way over the top.
Compared to opticians.£30 (£20 OAP) for full eye test for 1 hour using state of the art machines,it costs more for basic check-up at dentist taking about 10 minutes.
Plus tooth decay can and does lead to heart decease this should be looked into pronto
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Now, this is a serious question: are there any aspects of life on your island with which you are happy?
Yes as a regular visitor to London I can say Jersey is not full of foreingers who barely speak the language and you can walk about without getting mugged.I don’t face a 3 hour commute on overcrowded trains just to get to work and if I see thed same person on the bus every day there’s more than a passing chance they will say hello.
Jersey is expensive, that’s about the only catch but the doctors and dentists are far better than the free ones in the UK.
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To South London Lad : We’re angry at local politicians, dentists and lawyers. On the other hand, we love our farmers because they produce tasty Royals and, of course the milk, which is an essential ingredient in making the world’s tastiest ice cream!
If you end up agreeing with the above, I can’t think of you as a “foreigner.”
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Surely the point being made here is that it may actually be costing the health service in the long run. If conditions get bad enough to need hospital care then the costs can run to tens of thousands for something that could have been caught early and treated successfully for a small fee.
I agree the prices are off-putting. I’m lucky in having medical knowledge so my doctor visits are reserved for when I know a hospital referral will be needed but I worry for those that don’t know what seemingly innocuous symptoms can mean, especially men.
Regardless of people’s opinion of GPs in the UK, despite the service being free I have never been rushed and my GPs have always given their full attention and been willing to discuss matters.
The plus side of the cost is getting rid of timewasters and hypochondriacs, but the minus side is very serious!
If costs remain then better education of the general population is needed. There are many areas of health where a pharmacist or nurse is the best person to talk to. In the UK nurses are used far more, you just arrange an appointment as you would for your GP. Here there are many situations that end up at a GP that could and should be dealt with by a nurse. Equally, pharmacists are very highly trained and are under-used. My friend visited a pharmacist in Glasgow to ask about a suitable cough medicine and was informed to go straight up to A&E. Thankfully it was nothing serious but the pharmacist was right as the doctors did want to test for TB. This saved a GP visit, where she would have been sent to A&E anyway.
We need to educate people about the complexities of the body, too many people think they just have a sore back when the area of the pain is immediately indicative of a kidney or liver issue.
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south london lad(20)
here;s what i like.
no long commute for work, low crime rate,the beach is a short(very) trip away, sports are available to those who want, my neighbors are good,when the sunshines its rosy in the garden.
i even like cold dry days(these days).
the fact is it is becoming more and more expensive to live in this nice place that i was born in, in fact wages are shrinking, for most i would say, regardless of what you do for work.
and the price of a home, to live in and die in is now beyond the reach of many young people with their lives in front of them.
anyway , its christmas, i am going to forget about it for a few days.
merry christmas.
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Re London Lad #20 (and my family originates from Wimbledon !) Moaning is an island past time!
Fact is that some do leave the island for greener pastures, and return, because the grass ain’t greener ! (I met one last week – Been working up north – 50 hour weeks and half the pay that he could get back in Jersey for 35 hours a week in an office)
Jersey is great because you can walk to work, a tank of petrol lasts a month, car and house insurance is cheap, and your car and house dont get burgled or stolen
Yes its a bit small but I think its great. Thouse who really dont like it should leave !
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“…but the doctors and dentists are far better than the free ones in the UK.”
Willie, you won’t get much better than my other half has been getting over recent years, completely free of charge, at Guy’s and St Thomas’.
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@ Leah Holmes #27
“…I worry for those that don’t know what seemingly innocuous symptoms can mean, especially men…”
That’s a bit sexist!
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The poorer members of Jerseys society constantly lose out with dental treatment due to the greed of dentists, quite disgraceful but as is normal the members of the States will do nothing our government is a disgrace!!
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Unfortunately for men, #31, the grim reaper appears to be “a bit sexist” as well.
On the other hand, Leah might be referring to things like Chlamydia – which men can be blissfully unaware of carrying.
More than likely she was referring to the plight of the late Bob Monkhouse.
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#31 & 33, not sexist! It’s a fact that men are more inclined to ignore symptoms. And as Rozel states there are many conditions that stay quieter in men than they do in women.
We are made a little different, that’s just the way it is.
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there are a few pertinent observations i feel.
1 yes it really IS expensive enough to go see the doctor (although less so, it would seem, to visit the dentist) to put enough of us getting checked over
2 a visit to the dentist, however, has to be put in perspective. apologies to any sufferers, but having your teeth go wrong is rarely a life-threatening condition.
3 – let’s not let opticians off the hook
4 you only have to visit A&E to see the effect of high doctors fees – many people would rather suffer a wait of a few hours to have a fairly trivial complaint attended to
5 you can, for not a kings ransom (about £40 per month for a family), get BUPA cover for dental treatment – which will cover you for about £1500 of treatment
6 anyone seen what the USA is up to? after centuries of ‘[rovide for yourself as best you can’ they have finally woken up and are to provide public access to healthcare. can we really let ourselves be shown up by them?
and yes, the poorest among us get to see the doctor for free, and the rest of us are realtively blessed, but the fact remains that we are indirectly harming our long term health.
men in particular have long been known to be reluctant to visit the quack (prostate cancer/early stroke or cardiac arrest)- out of misplaced machismo/ingrained cultural values – but you can only exacerbate the problem by making it prohibitively expensive to boot.
i think we need at least 3 things –
1 cheaper all round health care
2 more sensible provision – how about an nhs online equivalent to help reduce uneccessary doctors visits
3 higher social security contributions to fund the gap
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I went to a heart specialist not to long ago for a half hour consultancy. during the appointment, he told me that i could, or could not have something wrong with my heart. A week later i received a £200.00 bill. not only staggered i also was shocked to find that i could not claim on my insurance as it was “investigatory”. if someone can justify 200 pounds to be told basically nothing, then please do. Further more i was charged £86 for a routine dental appointment not long after. i appreciate greatly the cost of running these types of bussinesses, but such charges must be curbed or else i will no longer be able to afford health care anymore.
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I find it really hard to understand why, with your tax system as it is, that you have any problems affording such services. If I was paying a very low tax rate here in he UK would either be putting something aside for doctors bills or paying a medical insurance policy. As it is I have to pay a higher rate of tax on not great earnings, but I do at least get relatively good and affordable healthcare. Have you considered the idea of increasing tax rates at least enough to subsidise health care? When I next buy a DVD or video from Jersey, I would not mind paying a few bob more to help your health system out, after all, I’m saving a fortune to start with!
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@ jon #36
“…if someone can justify 200 pounds to be told basically nothing, then please do…”
Your Dr charges £400ph, therefore £200 for a 30min. appointment IS justified.
You should’ve found out the cost of the service before making the appointment.
Also, do you really not see the stupidity in suggesting that you should pay related to what problem is found? If he’d found no problem do you expect a reduced charge? maybe you’d like to see his eyes light-up with glee at the thought of his new Merc. when he finds a really bad problem next time!
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To Leah you are definatly barking up the wrong tree. Go to your pharmacy or nurse first ?
Maybe if you have a sniffel or an obvious minor injury. A pain in the stomach can be cancer, slight loss of feeling in a left arm can be motor nuron desease.The longer you leave any warning sign the more dangerous it can be. Doctors are trained to look for these problems which can be evidenced by taking bloods, neither a chemist or nurse is in a position to authorise or carry out this preventative investigative treatment.
The General Hospital is excellent if you have a private health insurance. I have not and after a 5 months to see a consultant just keep in mind the letter which states. You are not on the waiting list, when a vacancy occours you shall be contacted. The consultant will need to assess your condition.
I admit it seems not life threatning, but talk about double Dutch.How can he assess if I am not been seen.Now if I got a loan from the bank to go private ?
Dentistry and doctors charges a scandle. You may not be aware that its a one out one in policy supported by housing and other States departments. Ah yes they get free treatment don’t they. Free market would free up prices.
Davey West.
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@ Davey West #39
“…You may not be aware that its a one out one in policy supported by housing and other States departments…”
Could you explain that a little more for me; are you saying there’s a limit to the number of GPs/Doctors/Dentists that can practice in Jersey? some sort of licensing? or are you talking about J cat. housing licenses for the professions?
If 100 of this years local university graduates became GPs would they be able to come home and set up/find work? if so that is really ridiculous, if you’re talking about the J cat. issue then it’s only a little better.
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I think the fees for doctors, dentist and opticians is too high, dentists and opticians have the ability to hold us to ransom, however, I appreciate the system of paying for a doctors appointment (I just think the current rates are too high) charging a fee does lessen the chance of time wasters who can occupy doctors with mild symptoms easily treated by over the counter medicine!
* I am grateful that I can book a doctors appointment (days in advance if necessary) and not have to wait forever in a surgery for my turn,
* I can always see my GP for consistent care,and my GP’s surgery is sympathetic to having a single appointment for two children with the same ailments
* I am grateful that the surgery will provide repeat prescriptions at a nominal charge with-out an unnecessary appointment.
* I am grateful for the free prescriptions but would rather pay a small fee ie 50p per item if it meant the fees stayed down
* I am grateful that I can phone my doctors surgery with a concern for a family member and the Doctor will call me back after their surgery hours and give advice at no charge
I dont however feel too happy when a mild sympton that requires a prescription item may require a second doctors visit which tallys the bill to over £60 or a call out emergency will cost over £150
Be grateful for what you get a lot of others countries get very little. Just think these greedy politians will eventually out of work on pensions and have to pay for doctors, dentist and optician bills in their old age and will suffer the faults of their own fair hands !
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#39 Your comment just goes to show how unaware the public are of the training pharmacists and nurses receive.
Do you have any idea how many people bother their doctor for a simple cold, allergy etc? Pharmacist is a lot more help there. As for female conditions and changes in the body etc. nurses are exceptionally well trained and can discuss matters with you and if they are concerned will arrange a doctors appointment for you so that you can be referred to hospital. Most importantly they are trained enough to know to tell you that YES, you should see a doctor!
You clearly have little idea of just how much knowledge pharmacists and (especially) nurses have. Nurses are put to great use in GP surgeries in the UK and it works very well. No-one is dying because of it, or failing to get much-needed treatment.
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#37 You still have to earn enough to afford to pay, paying just 1% of a low wage doesn’t mean you can afford the doctor, you’re still on a low wage.
You may not be aware that not all of Jersey are rich.
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to j.Lamborrari
From your comment i suppose you are a doctor. i dont find it offensive to pay such a huge amount of money for such a little time, i find it cheeky. if something was wrong then fine, ill shed a whole load more out on fixing it. and i wont have to wait until i have a problem to see his eyes light up, because he obviously already has one at the rate he charges. wait until somethings wrong with you and you have to pay such a bill, bet your the first to angrilly comment about it!!!
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@jon #44
I’m neither a doctor or angry, so you’re wrong about both.
If you went to a lawyer you could expect a similar bill and service, would you value your healthcare any less?
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I don’t have a problem with the fee’s. I earn a decent salary here in Jersey in the retail world. A salary which allows me and my family to travel to places for good holidays.
Everyone here has a good quality of life, and lawyers to dentists to farmers relative to other parts of the world.
The sooner people like Truthseeker leave the island, the better off we all will be. Arguments abotu ‘the establishment’ and dentists are overchargign are ludicrous. I happily pay these amoutns for quality work to be done, not bodgey jobs in the east, which have no recourse through insurance.
You get what you pay for.
SA
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Once upon a time there was a poor family.
The mother was poor, the father was poor, the children were poor.
The maid was poor, the butler was poor and the poor chauffer had to double as gardener.
Fortunately, because they lived in a wealthy place called Jersey, they all enjoyed a high standard of living.
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As has been mentioned, I think it’s the value for money aspect here that is the problem, not neccesarily the actual price. I resent paying £36 to go to my dentist or doctor for 5 minutes.
South London Lad – fully understand your comment. Looking at some of the comments here you’d think we lived in deepest darkest Somalia!
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Leah Holmes you make some good points
I agree that we have excellent pharmacists and nurses but they still do not replace doctors.
I can also imagine that a lot of people ask pharmacists and nurses for advice for simple straightforward colds but that doesn’t mean that their advice in particular appropriate for vulnerable people such as newborns, children, disabled people and elderly because that is why doctors have a 5 year medical school training then 5-8year postgraduate training. I happen to know hospital doctors who appreciate very much experienced advanced nurse practitioners in GP surgeries but also had bad experiences with ill advice given by nurse practitioners and pharmacists which led patients presenting late to hospital and even led to death.
Even in the UK there is a lot of debate whether nurse practitioners are only cheap replacement of GPs / doctors and how and to whom they are accountable to if things go wrong based on their decisions.
Nurses in the UK do not have that much allowance for further training development like doctors have and are obliged to follow their General Medical Council.
Pharmacists are also business people who want to make a profit at the end of the day and sell drugs which have proven by research evidence that they have no significant effect on illness for example over the counter cough medicine.
What do you think will be the main agenda behind a pharmacists advice given in his or hers business? If you think that pharmacists and nurses can replace effectively doctor’s health services then why hasn’t Jersey the UK or European governments thought about this years ago?
Davey West
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