Comptroller and Auditor General Chris Swinson
GST will have to rise to 12% if the States do not rein in deficits, according to the independent spending watchdog.
Comptroller and Auditor General Chris Swinson has told the Corporate Services Scrutiny panel that the rate of the sales tax would have to quadruple by 2014 if politicians fail to get a grip on public spending.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf says that the rise is ‘unthinkable’, but agreed that the figures show the scale of the challenge that face him, his States colleagues, States workers and taxpayers.
However, he has said that contingency plans have been drawn up for tax rises in the event that savings are not agreed. A sweeping comprehensive spending review into public spending has been launched to try to fill a £50m structural deficit in States finances.
Article posted on 5th February, 2010 - 3.00pm
86 Article Comments
How many more of these comment boxes will be starting with the words, PREDICTABLE?. All we ever seem to hear about is things that people always said would happen coming true. Why do you think there was such a protest about it coming in in the firstplace. It starts at 2%, then slowly but surely…., everybody knows the rest
Report abuse
Sorry all – I predicted this in these columns a few months ago – now its official so 12% GST + 20% “basic tax” means 32% tax rate BY 2014, but let’s let the union fight cuts and get it up to 35% plus shall we even quicker?
“Basic rate” is very unlikely to still be 20% in 2014. I’m still at 25% by 2012 plus 7.5% GST, so the unions may get their way, and of course, we will all just have to pay..
Report abuse
oh what a surprise!!! we all knew this was going to happen
Report abuse
Ozouf says that the rise is ‘unthinkable’. We’ll remind him of that when they hike the price up.
The states members after the war used to work without pay. They only had their phone charges paid for. Would any of the members of the states consider doing this for the benefit of the island? It would show that they truly were in it for the love of Jersey.
They have gotten this island in this mess. If they were working for someone they would all have been sacked by now.
Report abuse
Will our pensions and benefits rise accordingly?
We could go the whole hog and join forces with the UK, our government is as greedy as theirs.
Report abuse
Anybody brave enough to bet real money it won’t go up – nope didn’t think so!!!
Report abuse
40 years ago the population of Jersey was about 65,000. We are told that it is now about 91,000. It has been an attractive place in which to live because of the absence of any general sales tax during most of that time.
When GST was brought in at “only” 3% I predicted that prices would rise by about 10% and I believe that I was right on many items as shops have to pay GST and recover it on their rents, electricity, insurance and other expenses.
I have not yet predicted what any increase in GST would actually cost us but it will again be a lot more than the nominal amount.
The obvious effect would be the reduction in the population as many people would not be able to afford to go on living here. In some ways that will be nice and the roads will be virtually free of visitors during the summer. The price of houses will drop dramatically and many will be left empty. There will also be many empty shops.
I have heard of ghost towns and Jersey would become a ghost island. The few people left here would be paying even higher prices for the few items that still need to be imported.
The higher the taxes go the less the actual revenue will be from them.
Report abuse
So this is the real answer to the deficit. No chance of cutting our expensive and underproductive workforce thanks to Nick Corbel so no doubt as always we the hard working tax payer will cough up ….yet again
Report abuse
“unthinkable” Mr Ozouf……but it WILL happen.
GST was introduced for problems exactly like this to fill the black hole and cover the frivolous spending habits of our illustrious leaders !
They’ve drawn up contingency plans………although some may defend this, to me, it shows how much confidence they have in their ability (or willingness) to reduce spending.
Report abuse
We obviously all need to take this seriously. Whilst I wouldn’t advocate huge cuts in employment in the public sector, I do think the hierarchy in the States need to take a long hard look at the saleries they pay some in the higher echelons and in some cases lower level workers as well.
They might tell you that they need to pay good money to attract the right sort of talent; well that may be, but there are talented people out there who will settle for less just toget an interesting career.
If you look at the States of Jersey Police website, it will tell you that a Police Constable after 12 years service is on about £50,000 per annum. Whereas a Police Constable in the U.K. earns just 60% of that amount. You can’t tell me the difference in the cost of living is so great.
I can’t find details on the differences in the salaries of civil servants in Jersey and the U.K., but I imagine it will be much the same.
It used to be that people went into the public services to serve the public, where as now it appears they go into such careers to earn lots of money.
Also when it comes to budgets, I know when I was previoulst manager, I was told to spend everything that had been allocated to me, otherwise I would get less in the following year. I am certain people wouldn’t run a household budget like that. Rather they would look at making savings to help finance things when less money was available. As it says in the Bible, save in the seven good year for the seven bad years.
The bad years have arrived and the coffers are empty because everyone was encouraged to spend, spend and spend. The cause has been reckless financial management by those in charge. We must learn from this and change our ways.
Report abuse
Another sensational Daily Mail-esk headline.
Stop panicking and read again people – it cleverly says “must go up to 12%” but fails to finish the quote in the headline and say “…if States do not rein in deficits”. Hence the recent £50 million cut proposed. Question is can the States rein in their spending?
Report abuse
This is just laughable … this island is expensive enough without futher increases ! For those lucky enough to be able to live comfortably it will be a small price to pay and of little consequence.. but for those already struggling its a futher blow and more of a reason to leave the island. The politicians believe that everyone in jersey is on high wages but the fact is not everyone is and thats applies in all industries on the island. Its fine to say well if you dont like it then leave especially if you are from the UK etc.. which is the attiude some people take but if your jersey born and bred and no ties to anywere else your just expected to grin and bear it.
Report abuse
What a great news! Jersey will be able to join EU as soon as it reaches 15% !
Report abuse
They obviously have no idea how to balance the books,if they did we would not be in this predicament.
They keep on about cut backs but i have seen no evidence of this.
A good idea would be to cut the number of dead wood at the top who earn obscene salaries for pen pushing etc.
Report abuse
#13
be careful what you wish for!!
Report abuse
Shock Horror…
We, the public told YOU, when GST was introduced that it would soon rise to cover States lack of financial planning and ill-discipline.
Report abuse
Lots of if’s, but’s and maybe’s with this story however I think most of us expect GST to rise significantly, it’s just a question of how much and when.
It’s wrong though isn’t it? they bring in a tax at a relatively low rate that everyone says will increase, they deny said increase and let us get used to it, then we are told an increase is inevitable.
It’s bad enough that you pay tax on your wages, tax on your savings, tax if you spend anything and tax if you die, now another tax added to the tax on your spending. Why not just take all of our money and give us food and accommodation vouchers.
Report abuse
It’s just a question of integrity and the States of Jersey, from top to bottom, has none!
Cutting public expenditures, should not be about cutting services, but rather about cutting the extravagant over-staffed administration of those services.
Obviously, the Elected States Members are no longer running the Island, not that any of them have thew ability to run a cabbage stand in the central market, instead, we now have a hidden Government within government – manipulated by special interests who purposely create problems in order to introduce and stealthily impose their expensive ‘Progressive’ agendas through the back door – who was it that said; “You are going to get GST whether you like it or not – even if a hundred thousand people sign a petition against it?”
Report abuse
What did I tell you, only on Tuesday, GST will be !5%+ this decade. Such an easy tax to tweak upwards, unlike income tax. Also after this recession we are due for some rampant inflation so stock with essentials on double divi day rather than putting your money in the bank.Fill up the front room the Hun are coming again.
Report abuse
I think it’s disgusting how this beautiful Island is being run. But I have to ask…after the elections of 2008 why was there hardly any change? Why did people vote the same muppets? That’s as much a joke as the people ruining our Island. There is one answer! Everyone must stick together and refuse to pay any increase. This includes business and the public. If we all say NO! NO! NO! then what can they do. It’s time for action people and not words. Everyone complains but they still continue to vote in the morons who are intent in ruining the Island. Stick together and refuse…
Report abuse
why only 12, this island is all ready too expensive, waiting only when we gone start paying taxes for using of fresh air
Report abuse
joke
Report abuse
12% GST…………….where are the Police??????
Report abuse
10% GST, 10% tax below £100,000 income. 30% tax for those earning above £100,000. Everybody supports Jersey, we take over the world. DONE!
Report abuse
As has recently been demonstrated over teh last week with a 14% rise in parking charges, the States just get away with it and people just pay up.
The parking increase COULD have been fought, but no, everyone just went out and bought their monthly season ticket and had a moan. Had 90% of season ticket holders simply refused to pay, complained to their elected representatives and made life for our elected representatives hell, the States would have backed down.
For example, the users of the old harbour have forced a re-think on the development of the old harbour, and they are in the minority.
The population of this island have basically given up, the ‘haves’ simply dig deeper into their pockets, and for thouse to whom life is a struggle, things just get worse
Report abuse
piston broke 19.
Re: “…so stock with essentials on double divi day…”
Excuse my ignorance, but what’s ‘double divi day’?
Report abuse
Bernard is right we were all better off when our states members were not paid.
Report abuse
Yeah and at the end of the day they will most likely put it up to only 6% to make us think how “lucky” we are not to be paying more.
Its all mind games i tell you.
They have a master degree when it comes to hood-winking us.
do they not know we already pay the 17% English tax as well.
Report abuse
25 Warren J “Had 90% of season ticket holders simply refused to pay, complained to their elected representatives and made life for our elected representatives hell, the States would have backed down.
Nice idea Warren but how would it have worked in practice, assuming that you could get 90% of people to agree on anything.
Would they not take their cars to work, would they then walk/take public transport, what about those for whom this is inpractical?
People need to park because they need to work, would their employers be sympathetic if they were an hour late?
It just wouldn’t work in practice even if people agreed and in my experience getting a group of people to agree on the time of day is hard enough.
a 9% increase on a tax that shouldn’t exist in the first place is an outrage but they will get away with it as they always do. Saying if we only did this or that is meaningless as it would never happen.
Report abuse
I was born here and have always loved my island. But if this happens it’s fair to say that it would work out a lot cheaper to live off island as its tough at present.
So many of my friends feel the same and we are the generation that are paying the taxes for the aging population.
Good luck Jersey, but the way the island is being run, the future is not so bright.
Report abuse
More so than the fact that GST is rising is the fact that they have dug up Gerald Durrell to introduce the rise. Disgraceful!!!
Report abuse
Well said Warren J.
If half the people in Jersey put as much effort in “action” instead of “moaning” we would all have much happier lives!
These people are here to serve us and we let them walk all over us instead….it’s time for us all TO MAKE A STAND.
But who is the one to help lead us?????
On the other hand we could all move to IoM where I believe ths finance industry is still thriving, but Income Tax levels are at 10%!!!!
Report abuse
BS Deluxe “On the other hand we could all move to IoM where I believe ths finance industry is still thriving, but Income Tax levels are at 10%!!!!”
Yes but it’s always pi**ing with rain.
Report abuse
But didnt those two honest men, Frank Walker AND Terry Le Suer promise us, a few days before GST was introduced that it wouldnt go up and if so, only by 1 or 2 percent? And I for one always believed them.
But then, my family and I, (as a lot of locals do)did our bit for population control and left the island. Funny thing is, someone asked me if I would miss the island. My answer was that I missed Jersey 10 years ago as the charm and character had been forced out along with sound governance and integrity.
Good luck Jersey, it was nice knowing you.
Report abuse
#25 so well said Warren. Even in flats the non-rich owner-occupiers are suffering because rich landlords who vote for every bit of work to go ahead simply because they have enough money, no question over whether the quote is reasonable or the work actually needs done. No doubt they vote and then pass the cost onto their tenant (who won’t have had a say either). Owner-occupiers are out-voted by those that live somewhere else entirely, hardly a good system.
Report abuse
there is always the general strike, of all workers , both union and non union, this is about all the public have to hand, small protest is of no use.
however if the states slashed the duplication of jobs , and there must be some , who will pick up the tab for the extra unemployed.
its a dog chasing its tail. but shows where unchecked immigration and empire building gets you.
Report abuse
jees this island is sinking faster than something that sinks very very fast and I am so glad I learnt to swim!
if gst is increased even a % how will shops trade. everything is cheaper on the net, ok you are stuck buying food and drink over here but i mean everything else is cheaper on the net and sometimes stuff is even cheaper before the shop removes VAT. lets see I bought a phone on saturday, JT wanted £369, Sure didnt stock it and airtel wanted £279, amazon and play were £163 delivered, I also bought ink cartridges for a printer each costing £6.99 over here the cheapest I could see was £11.99.
people are whinging that tourism is dead and spend countless amounts of money on advertising the island as a tourist destination. why it is cheaper to visit a major european city, the last tow i visited was Rome and Paris which even with a poor exchange rate I found so much cheaper than here in terms of accomodation, eating out, snacking and shopping.seriously stop advertising the island as a tourist destination untill it is one. use the money to sort the island out then advertise it once thats happened. I can only imagine coming to this island on holiday after seeing the adverts is like buying a designer jumper only to find out the labels fall off and reveal a primark stickers when you get it home.
Report abuse
That is the only thing to stop them robbing us blind.
Bring it on Le Revolution.
They would have to sit up and listen,we are the people with the power,not them.
Took no notice of all who signed against GST.
The arrogant attitude! even had the audacity to ignore us with utter contempt when we asked to leave it off food.
Down tools and shut up shop,this is the only way they will take heed.
Report abuse
People…..bite the bullet and stop whining.
Yes, there is poor book keeping in the States, show me a goverment that does not have this problem (Iceland anyone?). Show me any large organisation that would not set off our prophets into fits of tsk tsk-ing and told you so’s! I am not sticking up for tax increases but look at the bigger picture and maybe give some credit where it is due. I also notice plenty of complaining from our prophets but no suggestions on how to tackle the defecit, not so easy is it???? Even if we have a hike in GST I would beleive we are still one of the lowest taxed populations in modern Europe. Travel the world a bit and you will soon see how damn lucky we are here in Jersey and it may stop some of this self righteous belly-aching. No I am not rich or in the States but I do travel to a lot of places around the world and I have seen no country that comes anywhere near to Jersey for standards of living. Peace.
Report abuse
Well there you have it,clear evidence that you can not believe a word of this corrupt Govt,remember what was said just to shoehorn in GST,right how long has it taken to open the valve that GST is ,and several candidates in the last election spelled it out clearly Not to trust it.and did you vote for them ..? No so does the apathetic sleepwalking,attitude of “It’s no use voting still hold with you…? you have only yourselves to blame for not going down to the square and throwing the buggers out.
Report abuse
What a shambles.
The States are to blame. Jersey is a small island, and a one-trick pony at that. (Now that the finance industry can no longer produce the revenue it once did what do all those who denigrated it have to say?)
For decades those idiots – our government – have spent money with no real thought for tomorrow. Many in the public sector have had such good pay rises – paid for by the private sector – and all because the States did not have the gumption to take difficult decisions. Do we really know what the future cost of all the public employee pensions will be??? Every time there is a pay rise why don’t the States say how much that rise is going to add to the
already-staggering shortfalls in pension schemes???
It’s not today that we need to cut spending, it should have been at all times. Come back Cyril Le Marquand.
As a Jerriais I just can not believe the number of hare-brained ideas our money has been wasted on, the number of times there has been no effective budgetry or cost controls. All my life I have lived within my means. I am ashamed that our government has seen fit not to do the same and has squandered many, many millions every year and still does and will continue to do so.
We are where we are – Mr Ozouf, enough is enough. It is not going to get easier. Spending has to stop. And stop now. We can not live beyond our means. And that is what we have been doing for a very long time. Cut expenditure now to what we can pay for today. Instead of pay rises put the pension schemes in order – don’t add to the deficit.
By putting up taxes you will just be putting off the day when even harder decisions must be taken.
As the whole island knows, Jersey prices in most goods are at least equivalent to UK prices inclusive of VAT, and that’s before GST. How much more can we pay? There is little real competition in Jersey. We can not go five miles down the road. We are stuck here which is why we pay what we do – through the nose.
And now, through the incompetence and short-sightedness of the States, (and does anyone really see things changing today, tomorrow, next year, ever????) we are in a position of ever-spiraling costs even if they do turn the tap off on projects that send our money down the drain.
Stop all these jolies that States members go on. Why do we need so many States members? But, of course, we should not expect that to change either – these turkeys are not going to vote for Christmas.
And we certainly don’t need members who do not attend States sittings. Any member who fails to turn up time and again should hang his head in shame and do the right thing (for once) and resign instead of taking even more of our money.
And why is it that public-sector employees can be suspended, some for years on end, with no resolution. Should there not be, in the interests of justice not to mention the costs,a time limit either to bring a case or to end the suspension. If this is not done why are those who have made the decision to suspend not brought to book to account for their actions? All those who are suspended, almost ad infinitum, have been denied justice.
The States have, and continue to thrive on secrecy. If we had open government (even half open) how many more examples of a senseless waste of our money would come to light.
Report abuse
There is nothing wrong with taxes; what is wrong is the shameless way in which we are robbed blind daily by the States, who have still not woken up. Any States member who will not agree to a budget which will not only freeze taxes but will also redress past errors by including an achievable plan to eliminate deficits in all areas of the public purse should be sacked.
And we, the electorate, can do it. At election time they all say what they would like to do but let’s examine the record of each – what did each one do to reduce States’ expenditure? On this basis hardly a member would be re-elected, and deservedly so.
Time is long overdue to do what, in the end, we all must – live within our means.
We were told by our senior States members that GST of 3% was all that was needed. If I had been so badly wrong in my own accounts I would have been in Court long ago for debt. Why are they not in the dock now???
Report abuse
Do what I do. I don’t buy anything but food, shoes for my children (and only because they have to be fitted), essential toiletries such as shampoo shower gels etc, over here, clothes, furniture, rugs, curtains, blinds, kitchen goods like kettles, etc all bought on the internet and all bought with huge savings based on Jersey prices.
Jersey is going to the dogs. I work and support myself. As I earn just and it is only just too much to qualify for income support. I can’t afford to go on holiday with my kids. My neighbour doesn’t work. Gets full rent rebate and income support and goes on holiday twice a year.
GST. well if it is put in place i’ll only pay it on the things I can’t buy off the internet.
Report abuse
truthseeker you seem to no alot about everything even if it is one sided perhaps you could enlighten us lesser mortals and name the several candidates you mention in your comment .i voted and even though not all my choices were elected i must accept that.it is called democracy something i think it is time you accepted.
Report abuse
From what I can see the way things are going I think the island will be lucky to get away with only 12% GST.
The ordinary people are going to get clobbered, this is what happens in most places around the world. Jersey is unfortunately going down the same route from what I can see.
I don’t think it will be long before finance gets further concessions from the government. If they don’t they could well go somewhere cheaper couldn’t they?
Thats the trouble with all one’s eggs in one basket. Who’s fault is that I ask?
Report abuse
Internet Shopper – couldn’t agree more GST will kill local businesses, does the £400 threshold still stand on GST for imported goods?
I bought a set of tyres yesterday, phoned locally for quotes ( think twice buy local ) and the best quote I got was £100 per tyre ( should be £114 sir but I’ll give you a discount ) was told I wouldn’t get cheaper.
£62 each on the internet, even with shipping and VAT added ( which cannot be redeemed at this end or with the UK VAT dept who don’t asnswer the phone ) still worked out £50 cheaper when fitted.
They are getting wise over here though, when I phoned round for a quote for fitting tyres supplied by myself Roberts wanted £60, CI Tyres £80 and TAF the agent for the tyres I bought who promised I wouldn’t buy cheaper wanted £100 for the 1 hours work to fit the tyres.Seems they don’t like you importing goods and undercutting them.
BTW got them fitted for £30 at an independant garage that I won’t name in case the big boys gang up on them.
I am happy to think twice buy local but they have to stop taking the pi** 40% more expensive is not acceptable.
Bought a large screen TV lat year for half the cost the JEC were charging, same TV.
Report abuse
What a surprise…(not!)We all knew it was just a matter of time that these clowns would start increasing GST plus other taxes, paycards etc…. It’s called legalised theft. I’ve never seen such a bunch of idiots in the States….they couldn’t organise a party in a brewery. Can we sack the lot and start again with some decent, honest individuals who have the Islands interests at heart, and not their own celebrity status and bank balance?
Report abuse
Eeyore, I am the same. Thank goodness for Amazon/Ebay etc. I buy everything other than food/shoes on-line; vitamins, batteries, toys, clothes etc….
We are an average family, I work part time to help pay the bills but find it difficult to afford Jersey’s ever increasing prices. A haircut is a luxury, twice a year (in the UK) if I’m lucky.
Thankfully my in-laws live close to a Primark which is also handy for stocking up on kids essentials.
I guess it’s a case of being able to afford to eat and park on the Island which has been my home from birth.
The future looks grim if it does go to 12%
Report abuse
This is a joke. We can barely afford basic things already and now they are hiking it up 12%.
A loaf of bread and a litre of milk will cost about nearly three pound at the minute. By the time it gets to 2014 it will cost around a fiver. A bit scary!
Report abuse
Yes Jersey is expensive. I for one wish it would get even more expensive. That way it becomes even more exclusive.
Report abuse
Look on the bright side – Deputy Pitman has saved maybe a thousand on States members sandwiches although instead of planning heir next debate they are now all queing individually at the sandwich shop. Deputy Wimberley has spoken for hours on global warming and the incinerator, printing so many reports that we need an incinerator just to burn the wasted paper.
We have yet another half million pound enquiry on whether the bailiff should chair the States and next will be another half million to investigate the dean, yet we have hundreds of unelected civil servants making new laws and policy everyday. £10 million plus on a town park – £14 million on Plemont which we would have got 2/3s of free of charge – no worries. The public demand they close gas place and knock down Minden place car parks yet by magic we still expect a place to park.
The Jersey Taxpayer wants a Government on the cheap and that IS EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE GOT– a load of inexperienced, untalented, incompetent and clueless people, playing at being politicians through petty point scoring, playground tantrums, arguing about everything that is not important because they can’t comprehend what is important.
It is us the voter who ultimately runs the Island and every penny of tax raised belongs to us. We are the employers – we set the pay and conditions and appoint the politicians who look after our taxes by our vote. If 60% of us can’t be bothered to vote then those non voters have no right to complain. If there is nobody on the platform that you judge deserves your vote then you should have stood.
Report abuse
44″And some fell on the stony ground” you really think what we have here is democracy….? get a grip.
Report abuse
51 Sanity
You keep thinking that if it makes you feel better, but the reality is far different!
Report abuse
Fuming as I am over this proposed GST tax increase – On top of this I cannot undersatnd why are people are not up in arms about the year on year removal of income tax allowances!!!
As a member of lower/middle jersey currently being taxed till the pips squeak year on year whilst 20 means 20 tightens its grip. I am still incensed by Senator Le Sueur’s comment and I quote “it would be morally wrong to increase the taxes of the wealthy”.
Why, in difficult times shouldn’t the burden be shared upwards – why are the upper crust so protected – why shouldn’t they contributing more?
I really think Senator Le Sueur should think about morals!
Report abuse
Don’t let us confuse GST with VAT. VAT has input and output with VAT paid offset by VAT received. GST is much more pernicious as a cascading tax with GST paid on GST, paid on GST, etc. The intermediate payers adding GST paid to their prices and charging GST on the GST inflated sum. Furthermore basic food prices are not subject to VAT neither are books, newspapers and magazines. Domestic electricity and fuel are rated at the reduced rate of 5%. Milk and bread, for instance, are some 30% cheaper in the UK than they are here before any 9%++++ hike in GST. Perhaps one should sell up and leave while there may still be time.
Report abuse
Well – never saw that one coming. How about just introducing VAT at 17% and lowering income tax to 10% – that way th rich pay more and the less well off lay less!
Report abuse
Jersey Taxpayer. I heartily agree,TLS has the Bleep, audacity to swan off to,I can hardly bring myself to say it,A prayer meeting, in DC.and has the bare faced gall to say it would be immoral to increase the tax rate of the the wealthy, what might he know about morals,if he had any he would have quit over all the lash ups on his watch, won’t spend a Mill, on Liberation Day holiday,but o.k. to blow millions on the Euro fiasco and keep employing those who did it…Moral high ground…?
Report abuse
this is exactly what the 20,000 who signed the petition were worried about. like paycards once the scheme gets going the states creep up the price with little or no notice and we have no choice but to comply – DAYLIGHT ROBBERY whichever way you look at it I would not mind but they waste it on frivilous projects that no one wants
Report abuse
and we want an extra days holiday…at someone else’s expense!!
Report abuse
Vic Mel(comment 56)Jersey already has VAT at 17% or at least it does in the majority of shops but they call it freight(strange because when I used to have a business in Jersey freight charges never equated to 17% but what do I know!)So GST is On top of that making the cost of most things on the island totally ridiculous.No wonder so many people shop online or come over to the UK for an annual spending spree.
Report abuse
How naive everyone was when they introduced this feckless tax which hammers the poor and stifles business with extra paperwork. Eventually it will go to UK levels and bring misery to all but the rich.
Report abuse
@ Julie #60
“…strange because when I used to have a business in Jersey freight charges never equated to 17% but what do I know!…”
I imagine you know about the costs of running your business, when you ran that business. Do you have relevant experience of running all sorts of businesses in today’s climate? I don’t know.
But I do know, for example, that for a local retailer to ship a specific item to Jersey from a UK based wholesaler might cost £76.14, whereas the same item sent from a large online retailer from their own warehouse in the UK would cost that retailer less than £10.00; that’s an additional freight cost of 13% on this specific item.
This is down to economies of scale, and the buying power of larger businesses.
Obviously I’m talking about a specific example, but it does show that there are freight charges involved for local businesses, maybe not the 17% you quote, but I don’t know where you get that figure from, and I don’t know what you’re comparing it to as you only say that when you did business it wasn’t 17%; what was it I wonder?
Report abuse
@ Andy #61
“…and bring misery to all but the rich.”
Would that be the misery of healthcare and education, or the misery of clean streets and law enforcement?
Because I think even the rich suffer those miseries too.
Report abuse
@ bleakoutlook #55
“…GST is much more pernicious as a cascading tax with GST paid on GST, paid on GST, etc…”
No it isn’t.
http://www.gov.je/TreasuryResources/IncomeTax/GST/GSTQuestionsForBusiness.htm#HowDoesGSTWork
Report abuse
I think we should have a referendum on whether to increase GST or whether to take on the unions. Because its one or the other.
Report abuse
J Lamborrari
Im not sure where you are coming from but GST is not a fair tax unlike Income Tax which is hence my comment.
Report abuse
To J Lamborrari (comment 62)My point was slightly tongue in cheek.Whenever I have queried why the Jersey price of an article is the same as the UK price,ie inclusive of 17%VAT when Jersey is not supposed to have VAT, the standard answer is that it is freight charges.It would be highly coincidental that freight charges equal exactly the same percentage as VAT so that was my point.I think most Jersey shoppers know that in general things are dearer than in the UK so I don’t blame them for being unamused about GST rising as well.
Report abuse
no-one likes GST.
but we should at least be grateful that the states have spotted – or been alerted – to the fact that they need to squeeze some more out of us, and that we have not yet had economic meltdown (iceland, greece, spain, ireland – for now)
imagine what our tax rates would be if we wanted to go invading people or acquiring nuclear weapons! (better not put ideas in their pretty heads)
seriously though, setting aside tax, mortgage/rent and social security, you can get by on £200 per week on basic essentials for a small family. so if that went up by 9%, which is the theoretical maximum figure (12%) stated, if the states do absolutely nothing to reduce public expenditure, you may lose out on about £18 per week on your non-discretionary spend.
lets not get too bent out of shape just yet, and if you dont like local prices, go ebay
Report abuse
@ bella #28
“…we already pay the 17% English tax as well…”
Why do you do that bella? I don’t, never have, and unless you’re in a very unusual position there’s no reason you should pay any English tax either.
#38
“…Took no notice of all who signed against GST… …even had the audacity to ignore us with utter contempt when we asked to leave it off food…”
There is a difference between taking no notice and/or being ignored, to the States taking notice and listening to your views, and then making what they view as the right decision that happens to differ from what you want you, or the Public may want.
That’s why we have States members to act on our behalf, in what they believe is the whole islands best interest.
@ the voice #44
“truthseeker you seem to no alot about everything…”
With truthseeker you should read between the lines, what’s there is far more enlightening… I’m not speaking figuratively either, I mean literally read between the lines; the blank spaces make a lot more sense than what he actually writes!
@ Andy #66
GST is a fair tax in my opinion, or at least as fair as any tax. Why is income tax fair, when a very high earner is likely to receive less from the greater tax he pays? Being fair isn’t just about being able to afford luxuries.
@ JULIE #67
“…the standard answer is that it is freight charges…”
From who, the counter assistant? I would suggest that you’re right, the standard answer given will not be a full analysis of a companies costs, including purchase cost, freight, staffing cost, tax structure etc. etc. etc. Would you really expect a company to offer a full explanation to every customer of how they price their goods, what the mark-ups and profit margins are? Did you when you were in business? If I’d come in and asked how much you paid for your products, and what your profit was would you have told me?
Most shoppers are aware that Jersey is more expensive than the UK, but many of those that complain don’t really understand why, and just bleat that they’re being ‘ripped-off’, just like many in the UK claim they’re being ‘ripped-off’ in comparison to the US.
Report abuse
Why not rack it up to 100%, Jersey would return to its dic -tator(Jersey Royals of course)ship?
Why not just rack every stealth tax up so we can pay the States workers and locals more and more, and the locals can buy Porches and Lamborginis while the foreign slave workers, who are looked down upon by many locals, work longer hours for local people just to by ‘local’ bread and dodgy water.
I would get the boat home in the morning, but if they rack up the tax I might have to stay 12% longer to pay for it.
States of Jersey are a bunch of greedy wannabes whipped by the wips of the even greedier slave drivers.
Report abuse
J Lamborrari 69
“That’s why we have States members to act on our behalf, in what they believe is the whole islands best interest.”
If they did act on the whole islands best interest then they WOULD be cutting public spending immediately and extremely….rather than increase misery on the taxpayer in these difficult times by increasing taxes!
Report abuse
He has a great beard though.
Report abuse
I see there is a states member here under the names of J Lamborrari. I really cannot think of anything polite to say to the following comment from this character:
“That’s why we have States members to act on our behalf, in what they believe is the whole islands best interest.”
Anyway you people should not be surprised about what is happening and how we have and are being ripped off by our beloved states. Why were these people voted in again??? Ah yes because most of you who complain decided it was’nt worth the effort to vote. Action speaks louder than words people. So get together and stick together to tell the powers that be: No!!! It’s that simple. You need to make a stand. It may be the 21st Century but its time to revolt and grow some “courage”!!!
Report abuse
@ Maestro #73
You see what is not there Maestro, I am not a member of the SoJ, and have never claimed to be.
If the States members, who you seem to think are morons, aren’t in the States to act in the best interests of the whole island, what do you think they are there for?
And feel free to be rude if you can’t answer politely.
“…Ah yes because most of you who complain decided it was’nt worth the effort to vote…”
Where do you get you detailed information from? I was under the impression who people vote for was not public knowledge, and also I was under the impression that the identity of posters on this site was private. You’re making claims of knowledge I don’t think you can actually back-up.
You call for people to stick together against ‘them’… ‘They’ were voted in by the people, and ‘they’ are also ‘us’.
*IF* you could do a better job, why don’t you stand for election? is it because working for the benefit of the community as a whole is of little interest to you? so instead you’ll just complain about those that are prepared to put themselves forward… and then complain about people who complain about those same people you’re complaining about for not voting for somebody like you, who didn’t have the ‘courage’ to put themselves forward!
Report abuse
Maestro,
You seem a bit cross. The way it works is that we vote every few years. We’re not French, you know, we don’t have revolutions.
The States are, by and large, useless. The only reason they get elected is because the opposition is even worse.
The Pitmans marked their cards for me when they made a song and dance about having a humanist marriage ceremony in Sark a few years ago. You can’t allow people like that to approach the table until the officers are in the smoking room, as Major Foetus used to say.
Report abuse
No private employer could possibly afford to pay out 8 weeks of holidays (or more), generous pensions contributions etc. numerous benefits enjoyed by States workers.
It is neither fair not sustainable to supplement this from public taxes.
Ordinary folks are struggling as it is, without any tax increase!
I do not understand why £44m stimulous package is going back to the pockets of the States paid people? We do not need unnecessary and overpriced road works! Few managers with commercial background could help bring public finances back into shape.
Report abuse
I am a bean and i have never found it soo difficult for me and my family to survive. We scrapped ourselves onto the property ladder, now we are considering selling up and going. I know the grass is not always greener and believe me i would rather not leave the island as all my family is here but we could go to the uk and buy our house outright and be able to live a little for once. The states just keep piling on the tax, they are like leeches! I
Report abuse
Oh boo hoo. I’ve being paying 17.5% VAT in the UK for ages. You lot have been priveledged for to long and you will still be over 5% better off than me.
Report abuse
As I have commented before on numerous occasions GST is a regressive tax as it hits the poorer in our society proportionally more. Some people commenting on here haven’t grasped this basic fact yet…Putting it up to 12% will cripple more people.
However those with loads of money will be relatively unscathed, as they will still be able to afford food prices at these new levels. A poorer person and rich person both have to eat. Maybe some on here will be advocating the poorer types to eat less to save money. This seems to be the mentality of some on here from what I am reading…
More and more people are strugging to survive over here due to the expensive prices of goods. We are in effect paying VAT on many things over here plus 3% GST. To equate shipping costs to be exactly the same as VAT is a cop out as far as I am concerned. Just look at other offshore islands around the British coast. Does anyone honestly think it costs 17.5% extra to import to the Shetlands from Scotland for example?
Unfortunately as the majority don’t vote (@70%) and those that do vote (@30%), vote in too many of the wrong types IMHO then the majority are in for a rough ride as far as I am concerned. Until people get off their backsides and do something about it nothing is going to change and they will continue to get squeezed with larger taxes. I can see the writing on the wall. Don’t say you haven’t been warned….From what I am seeing the more things change the more we are going backwards, so much for progress and a better future then!
Report abuse
Comments noted and apologies for not replying sooner but Ive been extremely busy. J Lamborrari thanks for comments alongwith mad foetus.
Regarding J Lam’s comment “And feel free to be rude if you can’t answer politely” what makes you think Im not capable of answering politely. smile
I call for revolution because Jersey needs it. For too long people complain yet still vote the same faces because deep down they’re scared of change. Better to keep the enemy closer and in view eh!!! I actually believe many voters think like this. No disrespect…
I am more than happy to stand up and go for it myself!!! I would have a number of issues to raise and would want to bring in a wide range of changes. And believe me some of these changes are long overdue. I agree with your comments that one should stand up and be counted and stop complaining about things. What can I say!!! Watch this space…Politically Incorrect could well be the by word for years to come…
Report abuse
@ Maestro #80
“…what makes you think Im not capable of answering politely…”
er, – #73 “…I really cannot think of anything polite to say to the following comment from this character…”
I look forward to you standing for election and hearing your reveloutionary plans; as we’re talking GST here, and just for fun, lets hear what you plan to do about GST?
Report abuse
Ok point taken…I was speaking in a heated moment as frustration of general state affairs and fuel negativity. Ok GST is an easy one. I would scrap it totally. I would then place a tax on properties owned by non Jersey residents, who are presently raking it in from rents. My concern relates to the general population of Jersey who find it harder and harder to live here with increasing prices.
Regarding Gemma’s – #78 comment: Jersey has always prided itself on being a low tax jurisdiction. It should have never introduced any tax on items, which are in many cases twice as expensive than the mainland. So you just carry on paying your 17.5% happy in the knowledge you don’t know what your talking about!!!
Report abuse
@ Maestro #82
“…I would then place a tax on properties owned by non Jersey residents, who are presently raking it in from rents…”
And you don’t think that this additional cost would be added to those rents? Thus making life harder for residents that don’t own their own properties?
Sounds like a very complicated system, and a very uneven one.
Also, do you think it’s fair that the Public services only used by residents (street cleaning, healthcare, eduction etc. etc.) are being paid for by people who don’t use them?
“…which are in many cases twice as expensive than the mainland…”
Any many more case where they are not. Prices can vary hugely from shop to shop in Jersey, just as they do in the UK. I can find the same product in two shops within 5mins. walk in the UK that vary in price by about 40%, the same product I can find in Jersey 25% cheaper. VAT is not the only factor in what a shop charges for goods.
“…you don’t know what your talking about!!!”
The same could be said of you if you believe that VAT/GST are the be all and end all of disparate pricing.
Report abuse
God’s Mentor #50
Reading some of these hysterical posts I have to agree with you.
J Lamborrari
Once again you’re the only one making sense, unfortunately you’re wasting your time; Informative posts are no match for emotional spin.
Report abuse
I disagree…and if people from the outside can afford to invest in real estate on our beautiful Island they should be able to afford extra taxes and be thankful they have the opportunity to do anything here. It really isn’t rocket science old boy!!!
As for products being cheaper than the UK, when were you last there to compare prices. Just the basic staples of milk and bread are in many cases three times as much in Jersey. However I have to say Jersey milk is the best!
I don’t believe that “VAT/GST are the be all and end all” but one must start to address the failings of our present day “leaders” somewhere. It’s time Jersey listened to its people – the real people who have worked, paid taxes and have stayed loyal to its beauty and history.
Report abuse
@ Maestro #85
“I disagree…”
I’ve no doubt you do, but I note you didn’t bother to answer my first two questions; too hard? too damaging to your argument?
And you don’t really understand much about investment it seems if you really do believe what you’re saying.
“…when were you last there to compare prices…”
19th February 2010, the day you asked the question. What does that prove?
“…I don’t believe that “VAT/GST are the be all and end all” but one must start to address the failings of our present day “leaders” somewhere…”
Maybe the best place to start addressing their failings is at their failings; the SoJ do not set retail prices for the very vast majority of items, and as I’ve shown the variance in pricing both in the UK and Jersey is such that you can find a product sold substantially more and less in both places depending on where in each place you take your sample, and that’s before taking any costs that should be reasonably expected to be higher due to Jersey’s size and location.
Report abuse