Obesity is becoming a problem. Picture: Anthony Devlin/PA Wire
JERSEY’S obesity epidemic is costing taxpayers an estimated £7.4 million per year, the Health Department has revealed.
More than half of adults in Jersey are now thought to be overweight, with 17 per cent of them classed as obese.
And an estimated 40 per cent of five-year-olds are believed to be overweight and could be facing a lifetime of obesity-related illnesses.
Dr Rosemary Geller, Jersey’s Medical Officer of Health, said that the Island was facing a rapidly developing weight problem.
She said: ‘The number of people who are overweight is a problem for Jersey, and it is a relatively new problem. Many health issues have been around for a long time but this is a new and rapidly rising problem.’
Article posted on 3rd March, 2010 - 3.00pm
115 Article Comments
The states has better raise taxes so they can’t afford as much food.
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Lots of love handles.
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Seems to me that Dr Geller has been determined for there to be some sort of epidemic over the last few months… swine flu, norovirus, obesity… what next?
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Increase GST on “junk” foods to 1. reduce the affordability element of these foods and 2. pass the increase in GST revenue from this directly onto the health budget for the specialist equipment needed to deal with the health issues that arise from obesity (don’t use the revenue for roadworks or statues!).
Also for the children surely the afterschool clubs could run extra sports activities? (Apologies and hands up I have no idea what activities these groups currently run and/or how they are organised). Schools themselves could also do more to provide balls, hula hoops, skipping ropes etc in the playground for kids to use during their lunch hour at their leisure.
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It’s a reflection of the national trend, many people are simply eating too much and not doing enough exercise.
Whilst it may be costing £7.4 million they have to be making money on the food/booze providing the calories.
Not sure what the answer is as those overindulging must know what they should be doint so no point in educating them. If you increase taxes on booze and fattening food you penalise the rest of us who enjoy ocassionally but don’t overdo it.
Pragmatic measures such as having a combined weight limit for passenger and luggage on planes would seem fair as otherwise we will only pay more to subsidise the overweight.
I’ve recently got a dog and am walking a couple of hours a day and have never felt better, would recommend walking as great exercise, I am really surprised at how much I enjoy it and some great walks here.
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I was enraged after having read this, especially after having read that 40% of 5 year old are obese!
We should be educating children in primary schools about health, food and diets rather sex. I’m unsure at what age they begin learning about this but health should be taught at a much earlier age.
Children learn how to make cakes, cookies and gingerbread men at nursery and through primary school rather than about healthy meal options. Yes, I understand that gingerbread men sound more exciting than healthy living but we need to find a way which will excite children about living healthily.
We also need to get children excited about exercise instead of TV and SpongeBob Square Pants.
If we start teaching children at an earlier age, the message will stick.
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The World is becoming more and more inactive.
We spend hours playing on a Wii or Xbox, we sit indoors deciding which one of 500+ channels on Sky to watch, we can’t be bothered to speak to someone or write to them anymore – just send them a text or email. We’re not interested in having real friends these days, we’d rather interact with them on facebook. The only time we go the beach is to visit the cafe, where a massive English breakfast will soak up the huge amount of alcohol from the night before. The only time we bother running anywhere is when CI Coop has an offer on KitKats.
Yes, we have become a nation of fatties
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Education on this problem is available to all, yet we still have fat people. Should people pay for their health care if they are the cause of their health problems? Could DR Geller ban fat people along with drinkers and smokers? There is an education program for those too, but you will still find that we still have them as well. Are they fat?
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Does anyone know what the obesity figure was prior to McDonald’s and Burger King being allowed in the Island?
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No surprise there that obesity is on the up in Jersey. People are lazy and are happy to eat “crap” food because it is cheap. You can cook a fresh meal in half an hour, but to a lot of people they seem to think that they don’t have the time. But they can sit on their backsides and order a pizza that might turn up an hour later
The supermarkets also have a lot to answer for to. The majority of special offers are on the whole unhealthy products that are supposed to convincing the customer that they are getting value for money.
The main supermarket group in Jersey is cheap but on the whole doesn’t offer value for money.
They are happy to make profit on the money that people are spending to make themselves unhealthy.
At the end of the day all the supermarkets are interested is pro££it
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Wow – This must be breaking news…
17% of adults in the island are ‘thought’ to be obese. Well im afraid if you use the word ‘thought’ then this does not strike me as being a fact. This is a number someone has pulled out of a magic number hat.
Secondly, I think you will find that 17% is a low number when compared with the actual numbers in most other areas of western civilisation.
So they ‘think’ that 17% of the population is officially obese and they ‘estimate’ £7.4 million is being spent a year because of this. Instead of using the magic number hat to get figures from how about some real numbers for people to look at? keeping in mind the weight a person needs to be and can still be classed as obese is actually surprisingly low
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Can’t we do a swap, Guernsey ship us their rubbish and we ship them out fatties.
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Here we go again another health scare from Dr Geller. Now that piggy flu has proved to be the flop I predicted she has decided to distort some stats she has to frighten us again. Furthermore all the UK media have been banging on about this issue for ages so no doubt to ensure we are not left out and in compliance with some EU health and safety edict here we go again…. In reality I am sure this is no more of a problem than 10 years ago. Certainly not some thing to get hysterical about. Some sensible guidelines to the schools would be a better use of her time?
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People need to take personal responsibility for what they eat.
It is not cheaper to eat junk food than healthy food
Some just want a pill and take the easy way out
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What a thoughtful, considerate and compassionate response from dov (#1).
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I think that as far as the budgetary concerns go it should be as simple as withholding expensive treatment for smoking related disease where a person won’t quit smoking, same for alcohol, same for over-eating.
Exercise and reducing your intake cost absolutely nothing, except effort and a little (very little) time; if people can’t be bothered to take care of themselves I don’t see why the tax-payer should be expected to.
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What utter tosh!!!
How have you reached these figures Dr Geller? Have you weighed and measured every single islander?
Thought not…..just making waves over nothing again just like the Swine Flu epidemic we’re still waiting for.
What is it now….have you got a load of almost out of date diet pills you need to pawn???
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Thank you very much for bringing this up. I think society has come to a point where it is almost ok to be a bit pudgy and completely accepted. I am not saying this from a looks point of view but it is so unhealthy. Seems youngsters are very unfit unless they are into sports, but no wonder when they get a lift everywhere from their parents and then only sit in front of tv or their laptop. I think it is disgusting and something needs to be done about. What is the most scary is that people do not seem to want to be healthy…. I am talking about walking for half hour – hour a day not being fitness freaks. and how can anyone like all this fastfood when there is so much lovely fresh food in jersey. You see some very unhealthy people in Iceland topping their baskets up with frozen pizzas and frozen everything. Surely it cannot be for the taste???
Sorry i get upset by people not wanting more from life….
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Well not very french!looks like we got more in common with mainland !
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over-privileged complacent white people with too much money in “obesity” non-shocker.
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As a motorist and drinker (not at the same time, I would add !) I am taxed.
People who are fat need to understand the cost of treatment and limitations on their lives, which they probably don’t enjoy anyway.
For many people, life is a miserable chore anyway.
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This is to be expected really, with Finance being the major employer now it seems that we’ve all got desk jobs. Good for the bank balance but not so good for the waistline.
Then there’s the Playstation 3, which is so much fun it’s surprising that it’s not illegal. Had these been around when I was a lad, I’d have rarely left the house at all.
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Yawn.
Breaking news from a civil servant desperate to justify her position. Didn’t we have this alarming story a month ago? How many times have we heard about overweight people on planes? Do we have to gotheoigh or again?
Is Dr Gellar actually the BBC? Taking a lot of peoples money and churning out the same rubbish over and over again?
Here’s a story… The states waste heaven knows how much a year on paying this woman to listen to any water cooler gossip she can and then shout about it to the press. Please please please go away and stop taking my tax money!
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Well I guess she has to justify her salary and give us another health scare.!It is common knowledge that this is a world wide problem in the materialistic western world but not the poorer countries.There everything is still family orientated, they have to use local produce, and they have to walk to school and exercise, as there is no transport.Hardly rocket science that its our own unhappiness and lack of satisfaction that leads to th overeating and over drinking plus highly stressed lives.
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Comment 6 Alina Haddad “I was enraged after having read this, especially after having read that 40% of 5 year old are obese!
We should be educating children in primary schools about health, food and diets rather sex”
It’s not the kids you need to educate unless 5 year olds are preparing their own dinners, it’s the parents, lazy parents who claim not to have time to cook a proper meal. As has already been said it need not take long, pasta 15 – 20 mins with home made sauce from scratch. Soups and casseroles less than an hour and you can cook double and freeze half for another meal.
Fat lazy parents are breeding fat lazy kids who don’t know how to cook. I love cooking and eating good food, I work full time and plan my meals to fit in with my lifestyle, it’s not rocket science.
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Over half of Jersey adults overweight? That is an astonishing figure.
Jersey youth is regularly complaining that there isn’t a lot to do on the Island – restore the fort to its former glory. Put in a decent skate park (never tried it but it looks exhausting), bring back quasar (that I did try and it is exhausting!) and ressurect the ‘big kids jungle gym’. I was a skinny teenager, and I am almost certain that Saturday mornings pelting round the giant skull had something to do with it.
For the really big kids, the gym equipment set up along the avenue was a step in the right direction, but it would be good to see it introduced in other areas. Preferably in more secluded areas where passing traffic can’t snigger at your failed attempts at a chin-up!!
For the really really big kids, Mulvie has it right, the opportunities for hiking in the island are numerous and extremely unique. More should be down to encourage exploration of the farthest reaches of the Isle!
RB
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I’m old, ugly, fat and senile – can I have some money please!
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Did I read the JEP correctly, there is a fat allowance at Social Security, is this allowance given to fat people only so that they can keep their waist line. What a joke, so if you over eat and become unemployable due to food indulgence ,the social security will reward you and give you a fat allowance but if you become unemployed through no fault of your own and you don’t over indulge in food we will give you less to live on. mmmmmm, sounds a bit anti healthy to me.
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dov the government is already taxing people more for this purpose. Haven’t you heard of Gut Size Tax? It may only be at 3% at the moment but it will rise in the near future to accommodate rising waist lines.
Warren I think you have a point, life is becoming miserable for many in Jersey what with rising taxes and a deteriorating quality of life. People tend to comfort eat when they are stressed out and under pressure at work. Jobs aren’t exactly getting less stressful are they?
Tobias maybe a few more manual jobs wouldn’t go amiss? Finance doesn’t exactly help keep people fit does it? Too much sitting down is bad for you. Add onto this all the rubbish fast food people now eat I am surprised people aren’t even fatter. Mind you give it a couple more years and we might catch up with the USA. Super size me and all that. Another good reason to diversify from finance IMHO.
The end result of not eating decent food and a lack of exercise is not only obesity but ill health, amazingly the government finally seems to be waking up to this obvious fact.
Mind you on the flip side there will be more deaths before retirement is reached. This will save the government money won’t it in pension payments? If everyone could be employed in sedintary jobs just like finance this could reduce pension payments even further.
Also big business can make money out of selling diet pills and other associated products. Consumerism at its best in my opinion.
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Disheartened
great idea….more tax and increase prices!! how about REDUCE the prices of healthier food?
Schools (at least the ones I know) do not allow ball games in the playground for health and safety reasons.
Alina
I would take the figures quoted with a pinch of salt so try not to stress yourself out too much
Thank You
but that is not your concern so just make sure you enjoy your own life instead
20 oob…whatever
since when has obesity been a race thing?
Tobias
We all had “desk jobs” at school, but I rarely saw an overweight kid in my class because at least we had P.E. a few times a week …. minimum.
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And what is the new food outlet opening in the old abbatoir site – a PASTY shop, there’s nothing junk food addicts like better than a big pasty. Should have been a Greggs though, why do they keep showing the Greggs advert on TV and not get them over instead of some pasty shop I have never of, anyone heard of them?
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This is clearly linked to Mike Jackson at TTS. This is only to scare the pulic not to use the car. This is no more than another ploy to get the new stealth taxes through the States on the grounds of “Health”. Be warned….this is going to cost all of you more in tax.
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Here we go again,pandemic hits the island.people are breathing to much,people are thinking for themselves to much,people are????????? To much.
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Please just somebody tell me that the headline photograph was not taken anywhere in Jersey! So embarrassing.
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@16 J Lamborrari
What a simple, straightforward and fair solution. I do really wish that Jersey rulers has this level of common sense.
It is not the first time when I read your comments with real pleasure. You are my hope – so there are some people out there thinking logically and capable of seeing simple solutions.
Stand for next election. You certainly have my vote !
Slawek.
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That reminds me. Wasn’t Domino’s Pizza coming over here?
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It costs much more to eat healthily in Jersey and the UK. Take GST off fresh produce, bump it up on unhealthy foods.
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Year after year you can notice the difference in the size of people. It is a shame when you see a 4 or 5 year old that looks like an oversized balloon eating a burger or some other type of useless food.
I was standing outside the co-op at Charing Cross a while ago and I heard a girl of about 12 years old with 3 other friends moaning that she had been on a diet for 3 days and that she wanted to go to MacDonalds. She was the only fat one, but the rest were of a normal size
Over the next few years the people of Jersey are going to get even bigger.
17% is a small figure at the moment if it is correct, but just have a look around and you will see.
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Health Insurance.
And your premium should be dictated by your lifestyle. If you’re a 60 a day binge drinking burger muncher, then your premiums are going to be sky high, if you live a relatively fit and healthy lifestyle your payments will be lower.
If you need emergency treatment and don’t have health insurance you die. Simple. If you can’t afford your life insurance, change your lifestyle.
And just to pick up on some points made in this forum by others.
@5 Mulvie Le Phew.
“Whilst it may be costing £7.4 million they have to be making money on the food/booze providing the calories”.
And that money gets ploughed back in to pay out huge amounts in benefits so the lazy can spend all day chomping on their big macs rather than doing a hard days work!
@4 and 6.
Yes, I agree that health educaton should be taught in schools and from an early age, but ultimately, is this not the responsibility of the parents as well.
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I can see from the picture shown at the head of the story what the problem is, they don’t know they are fat. The lady in the picture is wearing clothes 4 sizes too small, she doesn’t realise that she has got fat.
I think we have a duty to let these people know, for their own good. You would think that one of their friends would take them to one side and tell them, assuming of course that they have any.
Then there’s the other extreme where fat people wear black thinking that somehow it hides their obesity. Whilst it’s true that you can’t easily define their shape you can tell by the sun being blocked out that there’s a mound of flesh in the way.
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Food addiction is the same as alcohol or drug addiction. Health and Social Services are happy to give lots of money and help to alcohol and drug addiction services but food addiction is a poor relation. Remember you have to eat to live. Alcohol and drugs are not necessary.
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so Eric #19
so all people on main land are fat then!!!!!!!!!!!
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9. – CP, We have a burger king here?
Please tell me where?…..i want one……
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“an estimated 40 per cent of five-year-olds are believed to be overweight”
Well, I do the school run every day and unless there are whole schools with nothing but fat kids, that statistic is plainly not true.
Also, “overweight” is a strange term: it is statistically proven that people who are moderately overweight have a greater life expectancy than the few whippets that are allegedly the “correct” weight.
Am I the only one that thinks Jersey was a better place before Mrs Gellar started telling us off about everything?
And also, because it is relevant, can someone confirm whether she or any members of her team are “overweight”?
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The obese just do not like vegetables,fruit or walking, it’s as simple as that and the amount of sauces they use to disguise the taste is to blame.
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Apparently no one has any money because of evil TLS and the establishment yet it appears the less well off still seem to have the cash to make their kids fat. Which one is it? So much for people being so hard up over here they can’t afford food!
Mumsy and dadsy need to get their children to walk or cycle the half mile or so to school instead of dropping them off in the car. That’s a start.
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4 Disheartened
Isn’t the provision of Hula Hoops one of the causes?
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I note some people on this post kidding themselves that 17% is a small figure. Of a population of 90,000 thats just over 15,000 people!! Where are they hiding them all?!
Unless it is 17% of the 40% which is still over 6,000!
Based on my former calculation that is roughly the equivalent weight of 100 blue whales. It is not surprising the health service is feeling the strain…
RB
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I wouldnt worry about it in the slightest, I hear a new obesity vaccine is due out with minimum of testing so am sure the good Doctor will buy enough for everyone of us, obese or not.
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If they want to be fat, lazy layabouts so be it, as long as they work and pay their taxes (which incidentally are squandered year on year. Yes those bank notes urgently needed to be a different colour). In my book though they should pay double for plane journies, why should I be rammed next to some pie puncher who takes up a seat and a half, and also any treatments they need as a result of their fatness, they should pay for themself. It is a choice and regardless of what many will have you believe, there is no such thing as a fat gene!
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OMG people get a grip, whether we have a dominos, chippies, mcdonalds people will eat what they want to eat. This shouldn’t be about blame on the fast food companies, We should be looking into personal lifestyle changes. weight is a problem only the individual can re-solve, with exercise and balanced nutrition. had to laugh at the teach the kids about healthy food not sex comment well I’m sure a lot of underage ’slim’ parents will be a cheaper option then the 7.4 million on obesity, let’s think about this realistically. There is no easy way out the world is changing and jersey is a bit slower, but we always follow suit. Healthy eating and sex is taught in schools but it’s up to the parents and the individuals to do something about the lifestyle they lead.
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If we all stop eating so much the States would see a reduction in GST reciepts, they would then need to introduce tax rises…
Keep eating.
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Swings and roundabouts. If people want to eat themselves into an early grave then let them, its a free society. The money saved on not having to pay pensions and on other old-age related illnesses would more than outweigh the £7.4 million currently being spent. The same argument goes for smoking, drinking etc..
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#20 It’s hilarious that you were accusing others of xenophobia (and it was only borderline) despite your own blatant racism! Non-whites in the UK have the same level of obesity as whites. Get over yourself and take your racist views elsewhere, Jersey doesn’t need them.
#16 Totally agree. Society is taking less and less responsibility for itself, wanting others to sort it out for them with a tablet or surgery. Well our SS contributions are not enough for the amount we take back and I, for one, do not wish to contribute more just because other people don’t look after themselves. Genuinely needed health services for people whose conditions are no fault of their own are continually under threat.
People will say that charging is unfair, yadda yadda yadda, but what those people don’t realise is that with obesity greatly on the rise there is little other option, the health service simply will not cope. We need to preserve what we have and make it better not destroy it with our own ignorance and self-indulgence.
Bullying is not the answer but there is definitely now too much acceptance of obesity, to the extent that many people have no idea that they are obese (comparing themselves to the even more obese people they see on the street). It needs to stop being acceptable. And doctors and nurses now need to be allowed to broach the subject of obesity with obese patients without fearing what the reaction (and subsequent) complaint will be!
Someone will no doubt start on the illness front, but it’s been proven medically time and time again that obesity is due to over-eating (even more so than too little exercise), the fact that no-one wants to hear that is beside the point. And I do have 3 such conditions myself and the minute weight started to go on I dealt with it. I’ve only met one person with a genuine condition that could have prevented them losing weight and even they managed to lose some through sheer strong will.
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#44 Although the term overweight was used in the article the article was specifically about obesity. Overweight only gets mentioned because it’s tending towards the obesity level.
Someone who is slightly overweight (emphasis on the ’slightly’ bit) might have a longer life but make no mistake about it obese people do not live longer.
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What utter hypocrasy from those who allegedly take the hippocratic oath…having spent unknown millions on unused swine flu jabs this headline grabbing dept now come up with this,a smokescreen for their hugely questionable pandemic Jab campaign….and adding to it now making a song and dance about legal highs and hosting a big conference here, throwing thousands more of our Tax quids at it …and what for…a miniscule amount of people die from illicit drugs whereas thousand a day die from smoking fags and more from alcoholism…legal..?others have concisely pointed out the validity of food addiction, a response to life’s trials no different to any other addiction other than much harder to treat as you must have food to live. well MOH dept if you had an ounce of care for the publics health you’d Ban smoking immediately….instead of causing retailers a huge spend to hide them under the counter..which is a superb metaphor for the Jersey way..let’s not actually do anything about it but hide it in a limp attempt to assuage our conscience, which I,m afraid is beyond redemption….a sick joke from the dept of sickness.
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@ truthseeker #56
“…well MOH dept if you had an ounce of care for the publics health you’d Ban smoking immediately….instead of causing retailers a huge spend to hide them under the counter…”
truthseeker, I’m sure that the MOH, at who you vent such bile, would gladly ban smoking, but it is not her job to do so. Yet again you show how little you understand about the issue you choose to rail against.
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30 – BS Deluxe – yes reduce prices of healthy food too (though I can’t see the supermarkets being too keen). As for the no balls/health and safety – perhaps the education department could consider a review of that policy in view of the positive benefits on the overall health of kids? Yes there might be a few more grazed knees in the playground but hey happened to us as kids and we survived!
Also agree with the views that parents need to take responsibility. Anyone noticed that obesity seems to run in families – ie fat kid has fat parents?
Perhaps, in conjunction with the food labeling, the UK government could consider making retailers publish how long someone needs to exercise in order to burn off the calories in the particular food items? E.g. if you eat this ready meal, you will need to walk for x minutes?
Think there also needs to be more research by H&SS into the perceived barriers for people to lose weight instead of just the “lazy” view which helps no one. E.g. if people don’t know how to cook healthy meals, maildrop leaflets containing recipes which detail step by step how to make it?
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In the not too distant future, a set of scales will be installed at Jersey airport. If any potential traveller weighs in above the required weight, they will be duly escorted away from the airport and given directions to the harbour to catch a boat.
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I would like to know what treatment is costing 7.4 million, is it for broken beds and chairs? its a medical fact that 94% of heart by-pass operations are done on smokers .
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I love how the vast majority of comments here are relating to food consumption. We all know it’s because everyone in Jersey drinks until they vomit and then drinks some more.
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I dont see how this is anyone but the obese peoples problem?
If your fat your fat, If you want to do something about it, do something about it. I assume the obese people pay tax (job to eat – tax on wage)so therefore they have more entitlement(than homeless, drugies (who resort to stealing )ect..) on the taxmoney to stay healthy through medicine. any health problems are their problems, not ours and therefore I see why people care what happens to them.
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Oh dear Mr tooter scooter,it will be very clear to all on here that you persist in your tedium,and only wish to score points ..in your own mind I expect.so I have no option but to ignore you now,as you comments are superfluous.Fin.
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My weight problems seemed to get out of hand when I stopped smoking six years ago. Also I have had cancer……However I have conquered the cancer and am working on the weight and am now classed just obese as opposed to morbidly obese! Another stone and I shall be within the overweight category. I do feel so much better.
What I’m trying to say I suppose is that overeating and/or weight gain is and can be classed as an illness in itself. I love life and food but I know I have to change my whole lifestyle to be super-healthy.
To the thinnies of this world…please don’t be over-critical.It’s not nice to be fat and those with super-burning metabolisms are very fortunate to be as they are.
To the fatties….do try it’s hard work but worth it.
Though I think giving up smoking was easier!
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I have tried loads of diets but none ever seem to work for me but I like my sausages and even though I keep on busting my trouser buttons I think I am big boned more than anything like.
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@ truthseeker #63
“…you persist in your tedium,and only wish to score points…”
I don’t do it for points, and I’m not keeping score (I know if I were it would be something to your nothing though!), I do it because I’m right.
It’s amazing as hard as you try to be insulting with your childish name calling I still manage to get you name right every time I correct or challenge you, even though the irony is you chose a name that in no way represents your goal! You hardly ever seem to be seeking any truth, you just like to whine about things without any real basis, and if ever challenged go strangely silent.
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#62 Unfortunately it does affect other people.
1. The heavier society gets the more it skews people’s idea of what a healthy size is, and so we all get a little larger.
2. I pay the same price for a flight ticket (buses and trains too) and I almost always end up with someone taking over a large part of my seat (not great on a long haul flight).
3. Thin people pay the same price for clothes because suppliers spread the manufacturing cost evenly across all sizes, this clearly penalises those of us that are a healthy weight.
4. Restaurants often aim their portion control at what a bigger eater might want, you pay the same even if you don’t finish it.
All of society pays for others’ choices just as with smoking and drunkenness. Eating more doesn’t necessarily mean you pay more in tax either, many people have to buy some very expensive replacement food products for dietary reasons. They could of course not do so and just ask the health service to cover the cost of the resulting treatment they would need but they consider their body to be their responsibility.
#64 My mum had a similar situation to you and then a major operation on her spine, but like you she managed to lose the weight. Even my ‘aunt’ has managed and she has a rare condition meaning no matter how much she eats she will always feel hungry. I hope that you are receiving proper medical assistance. It would be great if the health service could plough more money into helping people lose weight in a proper and safe way, but even better that society would listen and stop believing all the myths spouted by food (and diet pill) manufacturers.
As for alcohol, it’s true, there are still far too many people who have no idea how much alcohol contributes to weight gain.
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Why does this woman feel the need to catogarise people? Surely fat people know they are fat and since when has an elected government been deciding what is an acceptable weight?
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ToastedteacakesPosted March 4, 2010 at 9:52 am “The obese just do not like vegetables,fruit or walking, it’s as simple as that”
What the? That is a ridiculous thing to say and you should slap yourself.
Everyone slating the over weight he is seriously disturbing. Some of you have been so quick to suck up these figures and run with it.
How about this – Educate people, particularly parents, on how to give their off-spring a healthy diet and you have done all you can! If someone wants to eat a packet of hob-nobs a day, let them! Life is not about how you look or how long your life will be. Its about enjoyment, right?
And the above comment about making airline seats more expensive for the overweight. again – What the?!
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I believe “fat” just a euphemism for “poor and uneducated”. And for “obese” read “on benefits”. Then re-read the article and it suddenly makes sense.
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Leah Holmes – Your attitude disgusts me. These are ridiculous comments made by someone who clearly know not what they are speaking about.
Live and let live!
If your fat and happy – carry on
If your thin and happy – carry on
The only thing that should be done is a program to help young/single or otherwise under privilaged partents to learn how to give there young a balanced diet.
Some of you people tho – honestly need to open your eyes
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KJ No. 69 I take on board your comments however, airlines might decide to not take on board those who upset the seating arrangements.
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When travelling around S America all internal flights had a weight limit of 90kg for you and your baggage. If you weighed alot or had lots of baggage you paid for the excess.
I cannot see the issue with this.
(I weigh 85kg so was always paying extra)
Their rules were very simple. More weigh means more fuel needed therefore you pay more for that extra fuel.
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There is no excuse for being overweight anymore. I am heavily overweight but am trying to do something about it. I am currently on benefits after losing my job when i fell pregnant! Sadly I put on a lot of weight having my children. I have also suffered back damage when i had my twins and have had to have my knee operated on due to cartilage problems (caused by exercise funnily enough!). Thankfully my doctor enrolled me on exercise referral so i get free (monitored) sessions at fort regent. I now go 3 times a week in the evenings and have so far lost around 10Kg. I am loving it, i feel happier, healthier and my back and knees are not half as painful now the supporting muscles are being built up! You dont need money or much time to be healthy and the rewards are SO worth it :O)
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People…Fat or not the biggest drain on our funds is Drug users and alcoholics. Tackle that first and then we can worry about the obese people.
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#71 Actually KJ, unfortunately for you I know exactly what I’m talking about. Try being on the other side and knowing that you are paying more because of other people’s ‘choices’ (same goes for smoking an excessive drinking). I refuse to lose my healthcare because others don’t look after themselves. Remember every one of us could eat more and exercise less but everyday we make the choice!
I did not suggest that such things SHOULD happen (had you bothered to read it!) but I do believe that if obese people were giving any consideration to others they would realise that their behaviour DOES cost others (again as with smoking and excessive drinking). I have arthritis and I have been on a long haul flight with an obese person next to me who had no consideration at all for the fact that the position I was forced into was physically painful for me! Did you EVER think about that?
I’ve met people who have lost a heck of a lot of weight so they can be organ donors for a loved one, others for health reasons etc. It can be done. In fact, I’ve been exceptionally supportive to such people. No-one is saying it’s easy by any stretch of the imagination but you have a choice to make and you make it.
What I notice from your comments is that you clearly have no understanding what other people go through with the strict diets they have to stick to for medical reasons (including myself), trust me, it’s not easy either and it’s often stricter than a losing weight diet! Maybe you should think about that and how they do it, but it’s easier to make excuses and attack those who actually care.
If you are trying to lose weight then I wish you all the best, if not then I suggest you start considering the effect your decision has on others.
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#71 Oh yeah, I agree about the education part and I have made that point time and time again, I’ve also expressed a desire that health services are more active in helping people lose weight in a sensible (and therefore more likely to last) manner rather than people being lead to buy baskets full of useless ‘diet’ formulas, not because it’s best for me but because it’s best for them and their children.
The education should not just for underprivileged, it is clear that everyone needs it.
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Firstly I would say that regardless of the figures compiled by whatever source, if you for example just sit in the market on a Saturday afternoon and look, you will notice that the number of overweight (chubby+) people far outweighs the number of thin/proper-sized people. Plus there are an awful lot of girls who look just like the picture. Do they not have full length mirrors!!
This supports the theory of the article if not the facts.
There are numerous reasons why this is happening in my opinion. Let me make a list:
No one in Jersey wants to walk any distance – why do you think that any business up Colomberie is doomed to failure? Why is town packed with cars looking for somewhere to park when there are numerous parking places “just outside” of town?
Supermarkets are moving toward the American serving idea – everything comes in “family (army) size” portions, or 50% extra free, or buy one get one free offers. For example, I want to buy some Hot Cross Buns but I can’t just get a packet of 6 to last the week, I have to get buy one get one free! I don’t want 12 Hot Cross Buns but to not take up the offer of six free would be stupid. What can you do?!! It follows that for the weak willed like me, if it is there, it probably will be eaten!!
A well known store which sells a multitude of “ready meals” that are “not just ready meals but pure scottish ready meals covered in full cream and cheese sauce and exquisitely fatty but tasty accompaniments” which are expensive but irresistable to the masses that think they can afford them.
Places like Iceland are wonderfully cheap but encourage the poorer families to indulge in “restaurant style” convenience foods that are loaded in calories.
The list goes on.
It may seem that I am being cynical but I was fat as a child and have had a life-long battle with my own weight purely because I LIKE FOOD. Especially comfort-type foods, you know – tasty things like cakes, crisps, potatoes, bread etc . I know I should (and I do) eat salad etc, but this is not what I enjoy, and even though I know better, I often give into my wants. A lot of people give into their wants without doing the salad thing for at least some of the time!
For what seems like years of deprivation, I have persevered and have now been at a “proper weight” for most of my adult life, but that is my problem, and I deal with it.
Unfortunately this lifelong deprivation has made me somewhat intollerent of “fat” people, and especially so when I see fat parents with a fat child!. I know for sure that my childhood was miserable, with other children calling me names because of my size – the most memorable being “Tank”. as well as being the last to be picked for teams etc.,. Do these fat parents not have an inkling as to what they are putting their children through? Do they not remember? Do they not care?
Kids today expect entertainment to be given to them on a plate,and willingly embrace computer games / TV instead of football on the beach etc, or getting a lift to school with mummy instead of walking.
Teaching children about diet and nutrition at school now may help for the future but will not do a lot for the present. By the time they are old enough to influence anyone, they will probably be fat already.
Unfortunately I do not have any answers, just opinions, but I thought I’d share them anyway for what it is worth.
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@73.
Thank goodness I never encountered that when I was in South America. At 108kg before luggage, it would have been cheaper for me to hire my own Lear.
In fact if your figures are correct, and assuming that people carry 20-25kg of luggage as allowed on most flights, that would mean excess for anyone over 10stone.
Whilst I agree in principle with this idea, that sounds a little harsh to me.
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Good thread, hope a States member can join in!
#37 and others. More GST on junk foods and/or make healthy and/or locally produced food cheaper seems sensible to me
#6 It is not all about gingerbread men. Some schools are growing veg and then turning the veg into soup and then enjoying the soup. Sounds good!
#13 and others. This was not a “health scare from Dr. Geller.” It was a written answer to a question of mine in the States, which the JEP decided would make a good headline. So don’t shoot the messenger. I asked the question to help prepare for the cycle helmets debate – we need to encourage and promote healthy options and walking and cycling are the 2 most accessible forms of exercise, oh and children like cycling. The dangers are caused by motor vehicles, speed, drink, and lack of driver awareness. More people cycling (and walking) makes for safer cycling (and walking). Helmets is a distraction. To put people off cycling by going on and on about helmets is one reason why so few of our children ride to school. A great pity. End of off-topic rant.
Great to hear some overweight people on here taking the dog for a walk etc. and finding they feel a whole lot better.
#16 and #39 Big question, whether in healthcare we should not pay for others’ bad habits versus we should all help each other out. Insurance systems always put lots of money into the pockets of the insurers and away from health! But the costs of self-inflicted (I know that is shorthand and covers many difficult issues) health damage may become simply unaffordable. The calls for prevention and help with e.g. food addiction are the right way to go.
#44 The JEP said an estimated 40% of 5 year olds are overweight, “and the statistic is plainly not true. Correct!! ”The Written answer contained this error and the JEP simply copied it. Whoever prepared the answer to my question misread the table in the MOH’s Annual Report from 2008. “12% of 5 year olds are ‘obese’ and 28% are ‘overweight (and obese)’ ” says the table. Add the 2 (incorrectly) and you get 40%. So the estimate is actually 28%
#48 can’t believe that 17% in Jersey are overweight. I have visited my son in Muenster, German town with very high cycling rate. Hardly any fat people. Everyone was riding around on their bikes looking so good! The rates (the 28% figure and the 17% figure) do seem high, but Jersey definitely has a problem here.
#53 interesting argument – save on healthcare costs in old age by helping people to live in ways that kill them off early. I think there is a quality of life issue in there somewhere!
#60 the medical treatment was not reported as costing £7.4 million but £2.2 million. Then other money was for Social Security costs for fat people unable to work
#64 I am a thinnie. I know I am lucky, but I am also very active and always have been. I try to be wary of being critical!
#67 I think Leah is right, these sorts of issues do affect us all. Going back to cycle helmets, if they are made compulsory there will be fewer cyclists. Fact. There will then be fewer parking spaces, worse air quality, worse public health, an impact on the enjoyment and independence of our children, and more disease due to our (in overall terms) inactive lifestyle. We should be going in exactly the opposite direction. Oh and if we had more cyclists, they would be safer. And there would be fewer cars together with the accidents they cause. Etc. etc.
Leah is right re personal responsibility. But government has to make it easier (or even possible) to make those right choices. Safer roads, lower speeds, promote and enable more walking and cycling, for example.
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Best advice I ever heard about obesity and dieting was watching the comedian Billy Connolly.
“eat less, move more”
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At the end of the day it is mostly down to personal choice (except those with rare conditions) and obesity is not a disease (unless you class laziness and greed a disease).
As long as you are happy with your size and weight then so be it.
If you are not happy and you suffer from health related problems due to being over or under weight then do something about it.
In my opinion, drug abusers, alcohol abusers and “food abusers” have made their choice to “abuse” the substance of their choice and must deal with the consequences themselves.
As for the parents….well if they encourage or enforce thsi upon their kids then they must take responsibility themselves or social services MUST intervene.
this is just my opinion.
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….I for one am sick and tired of the “nanny state” we live under and believe (unless mentally ill or too young) that everybody needs to take responsibility for their own actions instead of relying on everybody else!
This is called being an adult!
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Daniel Wimberley 80.
Re:”…hope a States member can join in!
Of course, but instead of an open discussion on obesity, what do you think about a discussion pertaining to ‘EXACTLY HOW’ £2.2m was spent on Jersey’s chubbies?
And seeing as you’re here, is there any chance of a precise cost-breakdown of this Extra-Large sum; or do you believe that cycle helmets (although deserving of attention) are more important than public-spending efficiency and transparency?
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#80 Always good to see a States Member promoting people taking responsibility for themselves. The more obese society gets the more the myth goes around that some lucky people are just naturally thin, but past our youthful years this is very rarely true, most of us make the decision to resist having the extra goodies, that we really would like, on a daily basis. Although there are some genetic influences on weight the biggest influence is your phenotype and that is largely formed in your early years by the amount of exercise you get during pre-school years (this is where raising kids in flats can exacerbate the problem). However no genotype or phenotype will prevent you losing weight if you really try and it’s good to discourage a defeatist attitude or allow people to play up how hard it will be to lose weight. After all, the harder you believe something to be the less likely you are to try.
I mentioned that my ‘aunt’ has a very rare condition where she never feels full, and she has still managed to lose weight (albeit she will never get down to a healthy weight), thankfully she knows too many medical professionals to succumb to stupid diet adverts. It is depressing to see all the media coverage of quick fixes and even more depressing to see people in Boots falling for the advertisements and it would be great if the health services could get in there early on and provide safe and effective help for those that really want it. People who are desperate to lose weight are easy prey for very irresponsible pharmaceutical companies, if health services could just get to them first it could save them a whole heap of heartache and a whole lot of money.
I’ve never heard anyone lose weight and say they feel worse for it and it’s concerning that some people equate dieting to being miserable, if that is how they feel then they aren’t dieting in a proper way. If done properly the only ’suffering’ from dieting will be slight hunger, it’s not anything like the withdrawal symptoms you get from smoking, alocohol (if alcoholic) and certainly not comparative to withdrawal from hard drugs or even some prescribed medications.
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While I accept that sitting behind a desk all day is not going to keep you fit, I work in a very large office, staffed by educated, intelligent people and a very small minority carry excess weight.
In fact, many of the senior members of staff, when not jetting off to see clients, working late etc manage to go to the gym, take part in sport or other activities.
Life is really about being informed, and making choices, rather than just moaning !
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The UK Politicians want to slap VAT on food is this coming here?
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Yes, I know a few people who are definitely obsese !!
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Leah Holmes: ‘As for alcohol, it’s true, there are still far too many people who have no idea how much alcohol contributes to weight gain.’
It might be worth your while reading this before you tell (preach to) the rest of us:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7391232/Wine-doesnt-make-women-fat-report-claims.html
I for one am quiet bored of your tiresome rants on this forum.
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“Yes, I know a few people who are definitely obsese !!” Did you mean “obsedé” (Fr.) or “obsessee”, Nickster?
I have been seeking a suitable description for one or two regulars on here. Eureka!
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#89 Just as well your opinion doesn’t matter to me Debatable
Your definition of a rant clearly needs some checking!
You could pull up articles to ‘prove’ whatever nonsense you want. Pretty much everything you eat will put weight on you (kind of the point) and luxuries are the worst for it.
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89 – Are you the self-appointed forum police? Self-appointed for a reason I guess. I (”for one”) love that this site has passionate people on it, I enjoy reading the likes of Bougourd, Mad Foetus, PJG, J Lamborarri, Adrian, Bridget etc. It shows that there are people in Jersey who actually care about Jersey not just how much money they can skim from the island.
There’s nothing worse than fencesitters and wishy-washy people with no opinions, or should I say there’s nothing worse than people who have no real opinion themselves but think it’s their place to bully and criticise others?
Is there not that old saying about “if you don’t have anything good to say”?
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Leah, if my opinion didn’t matter I don’t see why you felt the need to respond. Your immature response just proves the type of mindset you work from. I blame myself for engaging you in the first place. Probably best to focus back on obesity now.
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A rant is a speech or text that does not present a well-researched and calm argument……… I’m pretty sure I correct
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Perhaps our Chief Minister could try and lose a bit of weight and set an example to the rest of us, I am sure if he can,any one can.
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It’s all due to lazyness. I’d be willing to bet the majority of those who are obese rarely exercise, or walk anywhere for 30 minutes twice a week.
They may pretend to themselves they are cutting down on what they’re eating or snacks, but if they don’t control their portion size and actually burn more than they eat, then they are going to keep putting on weight – that’s what they need educated on!
That aside, I couldn’t care less whether people are fat or not. If they want to look they way they do, then fine. The issues I have are when they blame anything but themselves for it and with parents who allow their child to be overweight, it’s extremely worrying.
I don’t understand how £7.4 million is spent on them though out of our taxes…how is that even possible? Surely there’s only a small percentage of that 17% who have health issues…
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its quite funny how the same old names (see above viewers…) rant & rave about what they want- when at the end of the day if a fat person wants to be fat and a thin person wants to be thin then let them. We are meant to be in a “free world” but this government is trying to turn it into a “nanny state” led by astrologer Terry Le Moore & Nanny Gellar (stop bending the spoons – they don’t like it!!)
Personally I have a small tyre round the waist which I wish was a little smaller but when I walk down King Steet & see big bums I think things “could be worse” . But hey, if they are happy then I’m happy for them.
Next we will be told to all have the same shoe size & bra size (er not me tho!!) so we shouldn’t discriminate should we people….
live & let live and shut up !!
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#93 Funny Debatable, responding isn’t immature, I was gong to say you were the immature one. What grown-up trusts a newspaper article? Telegraph or not!
Jeremy has it pretty much spot on. I’ll add that you seem to read my posts despite apparently being bored by them. If you want to contribute on the topic then contribute, otherwise your behaviour is just childish and nasty.
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Why is the government getting so concerned about fat people all of a sudden?
Are they really more concerned about having everyone at the treadmill rather than elsewhere as those on the treadmill are in ever decreasing numbers?
I wonder if people lived to 65, before they had any risk of dieing from being overweight, and didn’t die until just after they had retired, would the government be anywhere near as interested as they appear to be now!
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#99 People are used to free healthcare, it is taken for granted, no-one truly wants to contribute more but they will (rightly) raise a fuss the minute any services are cut.
There are only four options in the long-term: everyone in society becomes a bit more mature and responsible and looks after themselves; contributions are upped; services are cut and people die; services are charged in full in circumstances where the condition is deemed to be the fault of the patient. My conditions could never be considered self-inflicted, but I still don’t want to see the last option because I don’t think anyone deserves that, plenty of people have a personal struggle with some form of addiction at some point in their lives and it would be good if health services could afford to allow for that.
My personal passion about this issue is because people seem to naively believe that the service we have will just go on and on and these articles are just hype. It won’t. Services in the UK are already struggling, hospital standards are falling and all is really not well, Jersey is slowly but surely following suit.
By far the easiest option is the first one, we all take a bit more responsibility for our own wellbeing. It doesn’t cost anyone, and for that reason I struggle to see why anyone would have a problem with it. If we have to start by charging for treatment for fights etc just to make a point then I’d be all for it.
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People need to get out more
We are blessed with the beauty that surrounds us, so there’s no excuse for lack of activity
Try walking from St Helier to Beaumont & then St Aubin – it will only take 1 hour
Not only will it get you fit, but it will remind you how lucky we are to live here
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@Adrian #99
“Why is the government getting so concerned about fat people all of a sudden?…”
If you read the article it quotes the MOH with saying;
‘…this is a new and rapidly rising problem…’
which directly answers your question.
However, I seem to recall the government health advice as being to eat healthily and exercise for as long as I can remember, so to question their concern as sudden seems like an admission that you really haven’t been paying much attention over the last 20+years.
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When its illegal to pick on other groups then the fat people are the only ones left; although technically it could be disability discrimination.
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J Lamborrari and Slawek..
I love your idea….no really….even though people who drink/ smoke pay more in taxes we should stop treating them until they stop! Yeah…great idea and how will you prove they’ve stopped, random blood test, follow them round 24/7, I hope your both Jersey born with ideas like that.
Try teaching people to be responsible for their actions instead of looking for blame…its the playstation tv, its sky tv, its all these takeaways and junk food outlets…NO it’s not, its your choice, don’t buy a playstation, don’t have sky tv!!
I was born free to make choices (within the law) and access the risks for myself, if I want a burger then i’ll have one and the goverment will collect taxes on the profit that company makes which goes back to the system. Just like petrol the more you use the more you contribute……da dah!!!
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Reg 104 I can not agree with you. The obese tend to stuff themselves in privacy and then expect sympathy from the slim members of society.
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@ REG #104
“…even though people who drink/ smoke pay more in taxes we should stop treating them until they stop…”
The fact that somebody has paid more in taxes because they’ve chosen to smoke/drink/eat in excess of another person, is not the point; the amount you pay in taxes is not directly related to you entitlement to receive the benefits afford to those living in a society that has tax-funded public services.
For example, if property rates were to pay for road sweeping you wouldn’t expect the road sweeper to sweep the pavement in front of an expensive house any more frequently or thoroughly than a block of States flats would you? If not, why not? the wealthy home-owner paid more in rates than the flat dwellers after-all.
It’s the same for healthcare, so long as somebody is eligible for free healthcare by virtue of having taken part in society (within the set parameters, which we needn’t discuss here, but may or may not involve paying taxes) they should receive it equally.
But what is the point of using a donor lung on a patient that has not given up smoking, or a liver on an alcoholic who isn’t making the effort to stay sober? Or as is the issue here spending money on drugs for blood pressure caused by being obese and sedentary for a person who is not altering their lifestyle.
“…and how will you prove they’ve stopped…”
Blood test could be an option, but I would suggest that most medical professionals could identify whether a person has changed their lifestyle during, and there’s always the option of asking them!!
“…Try teaching people to be responsible for their actions instead of looking for blame…”
I agree that people need to be responsible for their actions, but I think identifying where the blame lies is part of that.
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J.Lamborrari “For example, if property rates were to pay for road sweeping you wouldn’t expect the road sweeper to sweep the pavement in front of an expensive house any more frequently or thoroughly than a block of States flats would you?”
Just because you wouldn’t expect it to happen doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
“However, I seem to recall the government health advice as being to eat healthily and exercise for as long as I can remember, so to question their concern as sudden seems like an admission that you really haven’t been paying much attention over the last 20+years.”
If the government was interested in peoples’ health don’t you think they would have stopped smoking and drinking a long time ago?
Another area is stress at work. This can affect peoples’ health adversely and cause things like heart attacks and mental illness which can cost the state many tens of thousand pounds per person affected, in sickness benefits and incapacity benefits.
Have you read 1984 yet J.Lamborrari? Some of your thoughts wouldn’t be amiss there IMHO.
As per fatter people it is not always down to lifestyle and eating habits unlike some on here would have you believe.
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#107 Adrian, it really is. The body can be complex but there are some fairly simple cause and effect processes. That’s not to say people over-eat intentionally, eating is so habitual people simply aren’t aware of just how much they have eaten.
Ask any medical professional and you will get the same answer “eat less, exercise more”. Conditions (like that which my ‘aunt’ has) are incredibly rare but even she has lost weight. Unsurprisingly she has done this through eating less (she already exercised more than enough ).
As for stress at work, it isn’t self-inflicted since unemployment is simply not an option (for most). Although I agree that stress in the workplace is a rising burden, particularly on mental health services.
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erm Leah, I said your response was immature, not ‘responding is immature’ can you not understand the difference? again I blame myself for engaging you.
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Ex-Pat (Jersey) now in Cape Town, the school my child attend, has a lunch/snack box policy, the children can only bring fresh fruit and veg (as in cucumber and carrot slices, sweetcorn etc..) also dried fruit and nut snacks, wholewheat bread, health biscuits, drinks flavoured water/fruit juices. NO crisps,sweets,fizzy drinks etc… The childrens snacks are all similar, so no fighting or wanting, and they don’t crave for sweets when we go out. It is all about teaching them at a young age to look after their bodies. Make sure your school has health lunches and healthy snacks in the tuck shops, as parents you do have a say at school. So get off your …. and put you opinion when it matters ! So many parents are quick to throw a packet of sweets towards a grumpy child, or far too lazy to cook them a healthy meal, because buying a ready made meal is quicker. In these financial times of stress remember “Fresh is Best!” Jersey has enough local produce in season to feed a family cheaply than prepacked ready made meals,loaded with full fats and sugars from supermarkets. Look out I may come back and set up my own delivery company, boxes of seasoned veg to schools to sell onto parents, for a couple of pence more, therefore benefiting the school too!!!
Quick better register this before YOU do!
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@ Adrian @107
“…Just because you wouldn’t expect it to happen doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen…”
I won’t rule out you answering a difficult question some time in the future then. Anyway, whether it happen’s isn’t the point, it’s whether it should be expected to happen in the example I gave above.
“…If the government was interested in peoples’ health don’t you think they would have stopped smoking and drinking a long time ago?…”
True, in my life time the States haven’t done a single thing to stop people smoking or drinking in ways that damaged their health: If only they had raised the age at which people could smoke, heavily taxed smoking and drinking to discourage over consumption, introduced high fines for retailers caught selling to children, put warnings on the packets, banned smoking in enclosed spaces, run some sort of public campaigns, funded people’s efforts to give up smoking, limited the hours people could drink in bars, limited by license somehow where and who alcohol could be purchased from, educated children in school about the dangers… if only!
“…Have you read 1984 yet J.Lamborrari?…”
No, but I lived through it. Wasn’t that the year that the coal union in the UK went on strike without any ballot, cost the UK economy £1.5billion pounds, damaged the value of the pound against the dollar, while it’s members committed thousands of acts of criminal violence before succumbing to the resolute will and determination of the democratically elected and publically supported PM Thatcher? Or was that 1985??
“…As per fatter people it is not always down to lifestyle and eating habits unlike some on here would have you believe…”
Other than lifestyle and eating habits, what is it down to Adrian? What else make a person fat than eating and or lacking exercise?
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“Have you read 1984 yet J.Lamborrari?”
Adrian,
It ain’t what you read it’s the way that you read it. 1984 got most stuff wrong. Orwell was a much better writer than Huxley but Brave New World turned out to be much more accurate.
Ending is better than mending, soma, dumbing down, a society divided by wealth, intelligence and looks: it was all on the money.
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Its another issue Jersey has had for the last 30 years just takes so long for the penny to drop
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#109 Debatable, I would consider it a sign of immaturity to care about what complete strangers think of me. Caring what strangers think is something that children tend to do and something that they shuold grow out of as they enter adulthood.
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@ donald pond #112
Hadn’t read that one either donald, but just took a look at a review and thought this was rather amusing:
“…Brave New World is more of a revolt against Utopia…”
and on Huxley:
“…[he] received nearly universal criticism from contemporary critics, although his work was later embraced…”
I shall bear this in mind, when talking to Adrian in future; one day maybe he’ll understand, maybe.
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