The loop road at Ronez is used on 20 occasions a year for racing
THE Jersey Kart and Motor Club want to close the Ronez loop road so they can have a permanent race track.
They are about to put in a planning application after having recently collected feedback from the public on the plans.
Andrew Gibaut, Jersey Kart and Motor Club committee member said that they had been using the circuit, off the main north coast road, as a temporary race course for the last 14 years, but the road had to close whenever they raced.
He added that having a permanent track would mean that they would not have to set up all the equipment before a race, which was time-consuming.
Article posted on 21st May, 2010 - 2.57pm
95 Article Comments
I thought they were suppose to be out of there by 2 pm so that coaches and other people could drive round as its a fantastic point to see France and the other Islands from, they just block the road and it is a public road then seem to think that they own it they did’nt ask my opinion but now they have it ! and if they do get it how much will they pay the States for the whole area ? or is it the usual they want everybody else to pay for there fun
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yes lets have a permanent kart track, the bright track could bring in tourists, the french are big on kart racing, and in the uk, lets go international.
while we are at it , lets make it big enough for super moto racing , very popular, and again international.
no doubt it will be scuppered by the nimbys.
good luck kart fans, you have waited a long time
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Well I use the public BBQ’s around there in summer and pick blackberries and would not want to be forced away from the area because of a noisy clubs activities, we are privaliged to have such a beautiful place and i use it in winter and summer for communicating by ham radio to france and the other islands because its very high ground
had some fab pictures as well, so PLEASE dont let anyone ban us joe public from our inherited land.
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I think that you will find that you actually incorrect with your times.The actual time 5pm, this is due to the fact that we could not get through a full day of racing to include all of the classes so the time was extended.This information can be found here:
http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/frame.asp
As for Many of Jersey’s roads are indeed public and many are closed through various events throught the year does not mean in anyway that “we think we own it”. We are simply trying to enjoy our chosen sport which I am sure we are entitled to do so?
The land which the proposed track is planned for is split into States of Jersey owned and privately owned. Only the loop road itself is owned by the states and we wont be buying it we will be leasing it from them.
If you want more information on the proposal then please feel free to visit http://www.jerseykartclub.com
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@A – Bo Hoo…. why should “they” as you call the Jersey Kart & Motor Club, ask your permission. The problem is that the Club were promised a permanant track when Belle Vue closed and they derserve one.
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About time we had a kart track great idea I fully support this and hope we can get it built soon.
We need attractions for the young on this island and this is great news.
Thanks to all those putting this together. Well Done on finding the right spot
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The cheek of it!
Don’t let them get away with it. this is place is a “must” for pulling up for a few minutes to admire the view.
Forget this antisocial hobby.
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Oh dear,too lazy to put the stuff out and take it back in again..so the public are expected to lose a road, I sincerely hope this is rejected by those with the sense to do so….
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No Way! That place belongs to all of us, not just a bunch of carters! Why waste a valuable coastal viewpoint on something that doesn’t need a good view? Find them somewhere inland!!
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Rozel Aubin
By law are you are allowed to stop on a corner?
And why would it be an antisocial hobby? You are entitled to you opinon but please remember that this antisocial hobby is worldwide and is a sport that millions take part in nationally and internationally
Truthseeker
Are you volunteering you services to help?
No way
You say find them somewhere else inland the club has looked elsewhere for the last 14 years with no luck on places like:
La Collette, Jubilee Hill, Former Crabbe composting Site.
The Kart track thet was at Belle Vue was there alongtime before anyother neighbouring buildings but was taken by States compulsary purchase.
Rozel Aubin, Truth Seeker and No Way if you had possibly visited http://www.jerseykartclub.com you would have seen the plans for the track which in actual fact includes vehicular access.You would have also seen the planned usage for the track which broken up into an entire year is really very little.
In a way it is just as well thhat the granite on the loop is of poor quality because if it had been at all good then the loop would have gone along time ago.
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Suffice it to say that I was not pleased to read this news.
The mess made at the other side of Ronez in the name of motor sport is also totally out of keeping with the scenery. The quarry itself is tolerable, despite being a despoilation of nature, as it has a certain grandeur, rather like the long forgotten chasms at Mont Mado.
‘No Way’, you make a very valid point about Karting not needing a good view but I hope you realise the irony in relation to the name of a former venue!
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I think that there should be a permanent location found for karting. I am no big fan, I have been to karting days in France etc, and its a great day. However, we have to take care with our environment, and I don’t think that location is the best idea. I don’t know of a suitable location myself, but there has to be somewhere more appropriate.
To those who dismiss others hobbies, no doubt you have a hobby or sport that hinders others at times! I for one get frustrated at our inane number of competition cyclists riding side by side making overtaking impossible. However, I take a deep breath and remember that they have just as much right to be on the road as I do!
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Brilliant, that’s the only place to admire France from on the North coast, priceless!
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I did not think it would be long before the angry brigade started commenting !! and I will now put my two pennorth in, to re-iterate have a look at the clubs website and see the plans before making ill informed comments yes I mean you “A ”
7. Rozel Aubin you say forget this anti social hobby The Kart club consists of a lot of Mums and Dads who actually spend time with their racing offspring , acting as mechanics officials and marshals instead of as many parents in this Island do letting their little darlings run riot in St Helier, thats real antisocial behaviour .
8 truthseeker, usual venom I see !
9.No Way , If you could suggest somewhere inland that would be great.
As an ex kart racer and “Belle Vue” boy I wholehearteadly support the Kart clubs efforts to find a permanent home they were badly let down when Belle Vue was lost to them in 1994 after various States committees and departments
had promised a new venue. The Jersey Kart club is a great little club with members from all walks of life from Binmen all the way down to Lawyers .I hope they are sucessful in their plans for Sorel but sadly i think that the mean spirited nimbys that seem to populate this Island will have their way.
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@4
Am i missing something, “We are simply trying to enjoy our chosen sport which I am sure we are entitled to do so?”…. Why are you ENTITLED to do so!
There are plenty of very rich people within the Jersey Kart & Motor Club, pool some resources and buy your own private site to kart on, why should the general public have to lose out for you to enjoy your “chosen sport”.
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I don’t get it, am I missing something? Jersey has taken nearly everything that’s enjoyably for people of all ages away and not replaced it, Funland has gone oh what shall we put in its place? something that kinds can enjoy….. NO another bank! great let’s look after our pockets before anything else…., the some people are moaning about the fair that comes to people’s park each year, the music is too load and we can hear eastenders ect. and I’m sure if they moan enough they’ll get shot of that too. Oh and when they do something for them like a skate park… they build it right beside a commercial building with trucks coming and going all day long… safe? I feel Jersey is trying to get point over that kids should be seen are not heard.
Shame on you for thinking of yourself.
I’m sure this is a weekend sport and there are other many things that you could be doing….. or maybe not, you’ve moaned that much that they’ve closed.
I fully support the Kart Club, what a great Family event for kids to bond with their parents.
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Having raced Karts at Belle Vue in the 80’s with my Brother i found it to be a very social and friendly sport. We had international events with fellow French, Guernsey and UK competitors coming to the island to compete. All my family were involved either racing or marshalling. I fully support the club and recently re-joined as an associate member. Its time the club had a permanent track as promised by the states when they took over Belle Vue for housing.
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I have looked at the plans on their website and the “vehicular access” only goes as far as the start of the current loop, not good enough for us (including many coaches full of visitors) to enjoy the view which is far better than anywhere else in the area.
These plans are simply selfish, hogging an area for a minority. There MUST be other places to race, or continue as they are with temporary road closures.
There are areas down near the incinerator that can’t be built upon because of toxic materials buried below – surely a track can go on that wasted land?
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Karting is noisy and causes massive pollution to the environment with the 2 stroke engines they use. Get these kids out on their bicycles if they want to tear around.
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I would prefer it if the road stayed as it is.
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@ 18 No Way
The view is slighlty better by around 200 metres but if you go to the point at sorel you can be even closer to see the view.
“coaches full of visitors” you say, perhaps a coach once a week with a few people in yes but definatly not full anymore. Those days have long gone or have you not noticed that most of the hotels and guest houses are now closed down and that alot of coaches now are at the living legend unused? This is probably down to people saying NO WAY to most things which go on in Jersey.
The club is trying to provide something for the residents of Jersey to enjoy a sport and YES obviously the Jersey Kart & Motor Club will use it but it is certainly not selfish in anyway what so ever. remember the track was taken from us 14 years ago without a choice.
All sites HAVE been looked at. You say “There are areas down near the incinerator that can’t be built upon because of toxic materials buried below – surely a track can go on that wasted land?” the land there is all taken and you would want people on contaminated land that would need to be cleaned up before it could be used? Alos this is directly next to the fuel farm.
Or are you trying to say that Karting should go on contaminated land? If this is correct then you need to do some extensive research on the subject before you comment.
If you can think of a proper alternative location that could be used taking into account access,land levels,run off areas, neighbours,parking etc etc etc then please feel free to let the club know.
I think that no matter what alternative you were given even if it was on a remote island of its own then it would still be NO WAY, am I correct in thinking this? Or perhaps you are just simply selfish?
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You are saying that we are not entitled to enjoy are chosen sport?
You said “There are plenty of very rich people within the Jersey Kart & Motor Club”. To assume such information probably without even going to a kart meeting is a bit of a joke.Please find out the facts first before you make such a statement.
And didnt the club lose out to the general public’s gain 14 years ago. Belle vue was there along time before the housing estate which used to be next to it and compulsary purchsed to extend States of Jersey housing.
On another note perhaps the new estate should have never have been built on the site as it now has so much antisocial behaviour that it now has jersey’s first neighbourhood watch scheme.
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Now Way you are incorrect it shows on the plans a viewing point and turning area at the north end of the plans which is the round area with the car next to it
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#10. What “corner” apart from where the road rejoins itself?
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=49.258163,-2.149506&spn=0.001733,0.004823&t=h&z=18
I usually pull up towards the end of the western straight section. Also, what about access to the barbecue parking areas? Our Madeiran friends will be bereft.
I don’t have a problem with occasional road closures at Sorel Loop, it isn’t a road to anywhere else(I do get seriously inconvenienced by La Pulente closures for motor racing), especially if dates could be alternately toggled between a Saturday or a Sunday.
This new proposal is more like appropriation of one of Jersey’s treasures.
I don’t doubt that the members regard the activity as sociable. By antisocial I am referring to the breach of tranquility in an otherwise peaceful place and the denial of use of an established public area enjoyed by a siginficant number of non karting islanders and visitors . The sense of my comment was also significantly altered in this respect by theediting out of six words between “forget” and “antisocial”.
More worrying, since having my attention drawn to the website, what do I find but the following:
‘The JK&MC has the agreement and support of The Transport & Technical Services Minister (who currently has responsibility for the Loop Road) and the Treasury and Resources Deputy Minister (who has responsibility for the surrounding verges and lands) for the submission of a planning application to establish a permanent track at the Loop Road. This will involve a closure and decommissioning of the Loop Road as a public road.’
So now you all know. Foregone conclusion. So much for open government!
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I think that the new track to be built on waste ground at La collette with proper bends and twist’s. It will be safer and more entertaining than a boring loop road with a 300 foot drop to look forward to if you make a mistake, And believe me that a 250cc kart can really fly in the air over a great distance when things go wrong which will result in a ban of karting for good.
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@CJ
The kids you talk about use 4 stroke engines.
SOME are 2 stroke engines which are in other classes but allmeet EU regulations and Californian regulations (which are some of the strictest in the world)on emissions.
The noise you percieve I suspect was from the air cooled engines from the 80’s and 90’s? All are now water cooled with low noise emissions.
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I see. The club has to close the road 20 times a year so, to save the hassle, it wants to get permission to close it all the time. The club cites public consultation. Where was this publicised? I have never heard of it, let alone been given the opportunity to comment. Karting is a great sport, but why put it in a beauty spot? This is madness, particularly given the present concession which, as is often sadly the case, is now apparently to be pushed even further. I am sure that the kart club wouldn’t have been allowed to go there in the first place if it had made known that it would try and commandeer the area in years to come.
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I’m not the biggest fan of the motorised use of either the Rozel loop or the Sorel loop due to the noise, the traffic problems on the smaller roads nearby (big vans with trailers dont work in small lanes!!) plus the visual scarring that has been left at Sorel by the bikes. I do recognise however the necessity for people to be able to enjoy their past times and like they say themselves they have been enjoying this loop road for 11 years – for the same 11 years many of us locals have been enjoying the area for the rest of the week and year. Why should this status quo of 11 years be changed just so they can set up permanent equipment? They havent needed that for 11 years? The proposal is very unclear as to what access will be allowed and of specific concern is the term “daylight hours” That loop provides, as other contributors have pointed out, one of the best views of France and the other Islands and this is ESPECIALLY true at night when it’s a truly fabulous view!
And as for “no manifest” complaints about the noise – that’s because we are not all “Nimbys” and realise everyone has a right to enjoy our Island – but you guys need to respect that too.
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Surely all that’s needed is a field somewhere surounded by evergreens?
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Why not use the Cycle track at Les Quennevais? Not just an Oval, some good sharp bends.
Cyclists could use the railway walk or the front.
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Moanmoanmoan moan!
Come on! How about everyone stays at home making no noise and having no fun.
Yes that is much better, can’t be disturbing peoples view, imagine that!
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Have you listened to yourselves? Everybody has the right to pursue their chosen hobby…. you don’t get poeple complaining because wlakers choose to use the cliff paths, or people sail in the sea…… It is a matter of fact that a new Kart venue was offered after the closing of Belle Vue. Please allow people to enjoy their chosen hobbies…. and a Go Kart does no more harm to the enviroment than your average BBQ or lawn mower … not to mention all of the 4×4’s we seem to need in Jersey………
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The Stig…spot on..a great solution…a kart track at Sorrel is environmental Vandalism…and so unnecessary.
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Forget the kart Track look at the size of that hole in Jersey.
How can anyone criticise development elsewhere in Jersey that hole is a crime against nature how does it go un-noticed.
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“We are simply trying to enjoy our chosen sport which I am sure we are entitled to do so?”
“Everybody has the right to pursue their chosen hobby”
Has the world gone so mad that people believe this sort of thing? If Jersey needs a kart track then it should be far away from the north coast, which is close to a national park as Jersey has. The whole ribbon of north coast should be subject to the highest degree of protection.
La Collette or somewhere reclaimed would be perfect. Or people can accept that we are a small Island and not everyone can pursue their hobby: after all, if I want to stalk deer, do air racing, climb a mountain or go ski-ing I have to go elsewhere.
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This proposed madness would then open the door for…Oh we need a building in thye middle now to have..whatever in…NO NO NO…
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How about a 24 hour drum studio somewhere? After all, everyone “does have the right to pursue a chosen hobby”. I have always fancied banger racing. Why not close off a housing estate and hold it there? Anyone that complains can be branded a small minded nimby because, after all, we are all entitled to pursue a chosen hobby.
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Yes, Truthseeker, quite right. It is called development by stealth. It is happening now. First, it was the concession of using the road a few times a year when the club wanted to. Now it is “hang on, it is too much hassle to clear up the mess after each meeting, can we just take it over, please?”. Next, it will be “can we have a club house please?”. Then it will be a bigger club house with a couple of flats. Then, the club will “outgrow the facilties” and lobby to move elsewhere in the country because it is “good for the island”. The original, ruined site will be sold to a developer because a housing development is “better than the dillipidated karting clubhouse and disused track”. Result? Development by stealth and the public having the mickey taken.
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@vicmel “Everybody has the right to pursue their chosen hobby…. you don’t get poeple complaining because wlakers choose to use the cliff paths, or people sail in the sea”
That has got to be the just about the most ridiculous argument ever. How are either of those activities even remotely the same as permanently blocking access to a road that has been used for the pleasure of thousands and thousands of locals and visitors?
Not everyone is able to walk out to the point from the main road – I’m sure I’m not the first person to pull up there with elderly relatives who still enjoy a good view but not as agile as they used to be.
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Clearly there’s a heated battle between the Karters on here and the Nimbys that want nothing to do with it (with a couple of concerned islanders thrown in).
In my opinion, karters should be free to enjoy their “chosen” sport, but not in such a manner that disrupts a popular Jersey landmark viewpoint. As a rifle shooter, we don’t mind getting up early in the morning to fire on Les Landes ranges, then leaving at Midday. It’s time consuming to set everything up, yes, but we don’t mind as we do what we can to enjoy ourselves. If the karters are upset they have to set everything up which is time consuming, could they not just get up a bit earlier? As far as im aware, to set up a race track requires tarmac, a starting flag and a stop watch. I would stay stop being lazy, but that may spark hatred.
However, if they fancy petitioning for a track in an area that could mean it’s used by the public as well, then i’d vote for it. Would be a better idea than more bloody flats everywhere. And i know, more people coming in, we need housing, rah rah rah, but looking after the residents is just as important as tourism. Right now, there isn’t much in the way of light hearted entertainment for youths, bar perhaps the bowling alley, the beach and cineworld. Why not make everyone happy by keeping things the way they are and trying elsewhere, possibly in a collaboration move with the folks at the Living Legend?
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# no 38 Lauren Laverne & 36 truthseeker
You certainly have vivid imaginations and no mistake . flats in the middle of a kart track not even Dandara could sell that concept !!
The kart club have no hidden agenda all they want to do is race
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41 Reggio…..And all we want is to retain access ,beauty and peace and quiet…without noise and fumes freaking out the wildlife…..
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If you really want to spend your Sundays driving round in circles, why not use the ring road?
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Unbelieveable!! We have 9 miles of North coast line and these guys would like to use a very small part of it. There are plenty of other areas around the north where you get a fanastic view of France (although you may have to get out of your car… shock horror)
The only people who have a right to complain would be nearby residents with regards to the noise however surely there could be trees planted around the course to help limit this problem.
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Unfortunately it is not imagination and “no mistake”. These things happen. Why can’t the club be happy with the fact that it is presently allowed to use public land? Why try and muscle in further because it can’t be bothered to clear up after it? What will the site look like once it no longer has to do so? “Make no mistake”, development by stealth does happen. Who would have throught 14 years ago that the club would try and take over the area? Is this nimbyism? No, most people don’t live near the site. They just care about the island. Its interests should be placed ahead of the wishes of a vocal few pursuing a particular hobby.
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42 truthseeker
By the same token and by the tone of your post would you also like to see the hillclimbs, sand racing, sprints ,classic car festival curtailed as well ?
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#44 “We have 9 miles of North coast line and these guys would like to use a very small part of it.”
Problem is, it’s one of the best parts!
“you may have to get out of your car… shock horror”
Well that’s easy for you to say, now try to imagine being a bit less mobile that you obviously are – if you can possibly empathise then you might just find it in your heart to be more considerate.
I’m surprised the NT hasn’t piped up yet, considering how they’re keen on protecting the coastline.
Anyhow, I’m not a killjoy, I’d rather see ways to make their race conditions easier to set up then lose the use of this fine viewpoint from the car.
By all means make some tire walls and barriers more permanent so long as us motorists can get around them. Have something setup that can just swing into position on race days easily if you want, just don’t keep my car out of there weekdays and evenings. It’s OUR island too, I don’t mind a bit of give and take but I would strongly resent a minority hogging such a fine bit of coastline for themselves.
As for coaches, in the summer you’ll find a steady stream of them up there, believe me.
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46 Reggio.My how you dissapoint…Now you’ve just discredited yourself and your argument by being plain silly….Hill climb, few times a year = Temporary…sand racing ,sprints and classic cars..Same Temporary…yet you don’t here the Motor cycle and light car club bitching that they have to clear up cones.tyres,banners and other racing paraphernalia afterwards do you…They clear up after themselves…Temporary,…get it…?
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Reggio: “You certainly have vivid imaginations and no mistake . flats in the middle of a kart track not even Dandara could sell that concept !!
The kart club have no hidden agenda all they want to do is race”
Well, yes, a vivid imagination but sadly one which is borne out by what happens in Jersey. Very naive remark regarding the falt. Have you not heard of “caretakers” flats or other accomodation which would be taken by club members? What this does is to set the precedent for future residential developmeent…………the kart club probably doesn’t have agenda (apart from wanting to push a concession as far as it can get away with)……that is not the problem. The problem is the mess left in future years when all will wonder how on earth the area was allowed to have been ruined back in 2010. What is the answer? Well, if this application is pushed, perhaps those of us who care should all file objection to planning. After all, what is wrong with the existing and very generous arrangement?
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I don’t think that Reggio thinks through his arguments. They certainly lack logic. I don’t know if he speaks on behalf of the karting club but is very noticeable to see that he can only attempt to refute the possibility of flats on site {and not very well at that given the fact that on site club accommodation is commonplace in motorsport circles); he does not, and cannot, deal with all the other stealthy development dangers that will accompany this application “Can we have a club house please” will be the next thing. Don’t let this happen, please. Let the club carry on with the present indulgence regarding periodic closure of the road. That is a privilege (not a right) that would not be extended to the vast majority of the population. Just be thankful for what you have.
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Points to take into consideration.
1. Yes the track is temporary but to develop the sport to what it should be requires a permanent circuit to able to practice and teach on.
2. To develop it further it needs to be safer, currently the granite wall is protected by recticelbarriers
http://www.safeguardbarriers.co.uk/products/product_info.asp?prodid=10
and around 500 tyres. There should ideally be a run off area WITHOUT kerbstones then the recticel barriers.
3. In Jersey as mentioned above 250cc karts are only used for the hill climb and NOT for racing with as there is simply big enough to race them. The 250’s are raced at places like Silverstone where speeds of 140 mph+ can be achieved and have the acceleration similar to that of a Formula one kart.
4. The karts that are used in Jersey are not the toys that you get at leisure circuits in France that do 25mph they are Karts capable of doing 90+ mph 1/2 inch above the ground.
5. At a proper circuit you do not get manholes which are stuck in the middle of the track which lift you 1/4 foot in the air when you pass over then at 80mph.
6. Truthseeker above does not get it that karting is CIRCUIT racing and not sprints or hillclimbs.
7. What the club would like to do is not alot different than laying a nice smooth driveway with build in safety features.
8. At no time can turn up and practice.Applications for road closures have to be submitted in the october before the new season begins.
9. Race meetings can be cancelled on the morning due to high winds. We could race in high winds but not on the current loop. This is due to the fact that 2 metre high fencing has to be erected on the morning of each meeting which stops people from going over the top!
10. The club is very happy to use public land but wishes to alter the road slightly to make it safer on more challenging rather than going around in a circle. Apart from nascar/indycar etc what KART circuit in the world goes around in cirles??
11. At the time we have been at the loop road there has never (probably will be now!) been a complaint of noise,air pollution etc.
12. All sites have been looked at in the island this APPEARS to be the only site that is suitable for the club as it is next to a industrial site, has very few residents close by, has good access etc.
13. Is someone has a SENSIBLE site that could meet the above and more please let us know.
14. If you dont know anything about karting please dont coment on it. It is not the silly little karts with the lawn mower engines on that you get in France etc.
15. The club DOES NOT have any plans for the future to build any form of building on the site. It will continue with the portakabin that we currently have.
In brief all we would like to do is simply make MINOR changes the existing loop to make it safer and challenging , be able to turn up and use the facilities on the approved hours by the planning department and continue to be unnoticed to any neraby residents.
For anyne who doesnt know what a proper kart track should look like instead of a cicle then here are some examples.
1.http://www.kartsportnews.com/site_images/tracks/GoogleEarth_launceston.jpg
2.http://www.m4skarting.co.uk/newsite/images/pfitrack.jpg
3.http://www.kartsportnews.com/content/2008/Monarto_1029_med.jpg
And before anyone says anything NO thats not palns for the future they are examples ONLY. Any there will be NO buildings.
Compared to them are we really asking alot are we?
Its not as though we are looking at taking over the North coast to use 1/2 for a Golf course and 1/2 for a carpark with club room is it?
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Truthseeker 48 , sorry i,m a disapointment just saying it how i feel it, we will have to agree to disagree
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You can’t believe promises regarding no building. Is the club proposing to enter into a written and binding agreement to that effect? I think not. And, as has been said before, it is not the kart club which we have to worry about, it is the precedent which is set and the activities of those who take over the land when the club departs.
Interesting comment above at 51 stating that, ” The club is very happy to use public land”. I should think it is! It is a privilege that very few other bodies are allowed. Why not rest on that goodwill instead of trying to push matters even further? There appears to be an overwhelming sense of entitlement on the part of the club.
The onus is not on the public to find another suitable site for the kart club. It is the responsibility of the club to do that or to show cause why the existing extremely generous arrangement should be distorted in the manner which is proposed.
Look as well at the fact that “no-one has complained” about noise etc is now being used to silence those who object. The message here seems to be that complaint should be registered rather than the present tolerance in order to safeguard against future ingress into the countryside and appropriation of public land.
All in all, the concession which was made to the club fourteen years ago is, unfortunately, coming home to roost. This will set a terrible example to other clubs which might seek such concessions. An approval here will set the precedent that creeping development is acceptable. The effect will no doubt be a disinclination to allow any new ventures for fear of what they might try to push for once they have got their foot in the door.
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“but to develop the sport to what it should be requires a permanent circuit to able to practice and teach on”
And what should this sport be?
“The karts that are used in Jersey are not the toys that you get at leisure circuits in France that do 25mph they are Karts capable of doing 90+ mph 1/2 inch above the ground”
A noisy, environmentally damaging activity that is potentially dangerous and brings no physical benefits to its participants?
Why should this sport be encuraged in any way? If the Kart Club can find a venue and develop it in accordance with the Island Plan then fair enough.
I would prefer for Jersey to ban karts, impose world leading legislation on noise, air, soil and water pollution and try to regenerate the tourism industry by marketing Jersey as the greenest place in Europe. Much better than a few, frankly sad, middle aged men burning hydrocarbons for an adrenaline rush.
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Mock qc ( great name by the way !) and minature solicitor and the mighty truthseeker, you have me at a disadvantage I’m afraid I am just a very simple local boy who loves his chosen sport and although my arguments may not be articulate enough for the above they are from the heart , and any way NO51 more answers has put everything in his post far more eloquently that i ever could , i shall now retire gracefully from this forum and get my classic kart prepared for the Jersey Festival of speed ,I would humbly suggest to all the gainsayers who have posted on this topic to come down to west park on June 6th and maybe seek out some of the kart club boys and girls and have a chat with them , we dont bite !!!
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@ Roger phlegm.
It should be better than what it is do some research before you comment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kart_racing
How noisy EXACTLY???
If you drive a car?? then the fuel that you burn on average usage for jersey is what 40 karts burn in 1 year so hydrocarbons are no more than one car!
The age of 60% of our racing members is below 16, try and get your facts correct before you comment.
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No 54 Roger Phlegm ,
bet your house is a bundle of laughs
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Gavin,
My house is a bundle of laughs. Jersey is a fantastic place – we go fishing, kayaking, walk on cliffpaths, enjoy the beaches, forage and grow our own veggies. Then we get drunk and set fire to any pampas grass we can find – goes up a treat.
What we don’t do is make a nuisance of ourselves driving round and round in circles in a beauty spot thinking that what we are doing is a sport.
At least if I was a karter I would have the honesty to say I do it because I am selfish and don’t care about the countryside as long as I am having a laugh.
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55 Reggio…Ahh… I’m sure you are a very nice chap,sincere in your enjoyment of your chosen passtime…the only thing Mighty about the Truthseeker is he is mighty frustrated at seeing his island home gobbled up by urban creep and development by stealth…what was natural charm and beauty is being systematically ruined …just look at the carnage at Portelet…I feel for your club ,you were lied to..so were we, which is why we are twitchy about these things now..current politicians who make the big decisions are totally untrustworthy…so if permanent is what you want ,I hope a “Low impact” low profile site can be found..see..not so bad but Mighty protective.
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I too am a very simple local boy who doesn’t understand all these techical terms regarding motor sport. I just love this island and don’t understand why a club which already enjoys an enormous privilge wants even more. Difficult for a simple soul like me to understand. I think I will retire gracefully from this forum. Anyone who wants to meet environmentalists and other people who care about the despoilation of the island can do so at any time. We don’t bite!
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It is all very well citing Wikipaedia but, as we all know, what is written there is often incorrect and can be manipulated by those who post there. How do we know that any information on Wikipaedia hasn’t been posted by members of the kart club? In any event, it is likely to be highly subjective.
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@61
The here should be o.k. for you .
http://www.cikfia.com/web/karting/webkarting.nsf/home?readform
and here
http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.asp?article=785
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Don’t they get bored going round and round in circles? Perhaps tiddlywinks would be more interesting, it would certainly be more environmentally friendly……what about collecting bus tickets? That is an exciting hobby (so I am told!)
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How can 40 karts emit the same pollution as one car? Are they peddling sinclair c5s round the track?
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Surely any web articles are only as good as the people who write them? Shouldn’t we be referred to one which compares green zone tranquility with the ravages of organised motor sport?
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@ 62; the here will be okay and relevant to the area:
http://www.bocn.org/
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Next it will be free petrol point and pit stop facilities. maybe build it underneath the town park? Bring back belle Vue, can Dandara help? I thought a track was’nt required most use their own estates to practice! Can we make money out of this?
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as an ex member of the kart club i know what they go through, as i used to help set up the track and its not funny with high winds up there. i think all the anti karters have missed the point, the track was taken off them by the states on the promise of a new one ! so really your gripe should be with the states to keep their end of the bargain !
if the states took your pcs away so you could not moan on forums but said they would replace your pcs but did not would you be happy?
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I am grateful to #51, More Answers, for the frightening enlightening. Most of us probably thought the karts involved were of the lawn mower variety. However it now seems that they are very much more powerful and faster. Altogether more appropriate to Brands Hatch or Silverstone than Sorel.
As Donald Pond has said, one sometimes has to travel outside Jersey to indulge in activities that the island can’t accomodate.
#56, Answers comes up with the equally revealing information that most of the participants are under 16. I wouldn’t like to suggest that they must be spoilt brats but I think that it could be a possibility.
Both these posters have rather let the cat out of the bag, it seems. 90mph plus, with under 16s at the wheel. Does a child have to die before something is done about this? (to coin a phrase)
Reggio asked Truthseeker about hill climbs etc. and Truthseeker replied exactly as I would have done except that I would state once again that the closure of the coastal route at La Pulente causes me, and no doubt plenty of others, considerable inconvenience in getting to and from La Moye/Corbiere via the bay. I would also add that the more extensive road rally involving closures and competitive driving through lanes and residential areas is, in my opinion, innapropriate for Jersey.
I also enjoyed roger phlegm’s response, he knows how to enjoy what Jersey does offer but I hope he checks the wind before his pyromania!
The good that is coming out of this thread is that this attempt to push the boundaries of an already generous concession will not now happen without being noticed.
Unfortunately those who worry about further changes of land use are not living in a dream world. Strong willed people in Jersey have a habit of getting their own way.
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#64 “Are they peddling (sic) sinclair c5s round the track?”
Another of my favourite regular howlers.
What say, Mick from the teachers’ thread? Another acceptable alternative when applied to French onion vendors who might be doing both simultaneously?
I suppose they could be trying to sell them (C5s not onions)!
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69 Rozel Aubin
I’m sorry Rozel but i cannot let your some of your more frankly uninformed pass without further
1.”Most of us probably thought the karts involved were of the lawn mower variety. However it now seems that they are very much more powerful and faster. Altogether more appropriate to Brands Hatch or Silverstone than Sorel. ”
The only karts that race at Sorel that would be appropriate for Brands Hatch would be “gearbox ” karts and i dont think there are many like that at Sorel
2.”As Donald Pond has said, one sometimes has to travel outside Jersey to indulge in activities that the island can’t accomodate.”
The Island has accomodated karting for nigh on fifty years so why stop now.
3.”Answers comes up with the equally revealing information that most of the participants are under 16. I wouldn’t like to suggest that they must be spoilt brats but I think that it could be a possibility”
you have suggested they are spoilt brats have you met any of them or their parents.
4.” 90mph plus, with under 16s at the wheel. Does a child have to die before something is done about this? (to coin a phrase)”
would you also like something done about those local mums and dads who put their even younger children on 150+ kilos of pony and then make them jump over ever higher fences ,no !
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It is the persistent, organised element who get away with it, Rozel Aubin. That is what we see here. Good observations regarding safety, by the way.
Unfortunately, what we see is perhaps the tip of the iceberg. What is now visible probably follows months of covert discussions with planning and other authorities. I have an awful feeling that any protest will be in vain becuase it may already be a done deal. Remember the 1992 colomberie house saga? That was an example of the then president of planning (John Le Sueur) making an agreement from which the committee was not able to resile. Result? A planning miscarriage and the loss of a building of outstanding architectural merit.
The same thing could happen here. As an aside, people who post comments in opposition of this idea are, generally, not “anti karting”. They are simply pro green zone. There is a difference.
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@61
The here will be okay as a link:
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/051130_gokart_injuries.html
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@59 truthseeker
I have come out of the garage to say I am 100% in agreement with you ( well on this post anyway !)
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If planning did make a mistake with belle vue does that mean that they should make a second mistake now?
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@ 69 Rozel Aubin
51 & 56 are the same person, me.
The karts which competitors UNDER 16 use DONT have a top speed of 90+mph The speet that they are CAPABLE of is around 65+ mph depending on what gear ratios are used.
The cadet class which starts at 8 years old has a speed of 45mph.
The gearbox and senior classes are the ones that have the speed of 90mph
The possibility that the kids are spoilt brats
is very slim. I race and so does my son, I am a single parent who works in a garage as a
mechanic. Many other’s are the same. Some people like football some like golf etc we like motorsport.
Perhaps it may be best that you come and visit us at our next race meeting so you can see what has to be done on a race day and see what the club is all about. You may not like motorsport but I am sure that 1/2 hour of your time would not hurt?
Our next race meeting is on Sunday 20th June.
You may have more negatives about us or perhaps some positives but at least you will be able to see what it is all about.
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Gavin, the here is a good link:
http://www.rspb.org.uk/wildlife/birdguide/name/t/tuftedduck/index.aspx
I bet your garden is a bundle of laughs
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Gavin Mc Nicol at 71:
“The only karts that race at Sorel that would be appropriate for Brands Hatch would be “gearbox ” karts and i dont think there are many like that at Sorel”
You don’t think or you don’t know!? Do you have any figures to back up what you try to assert?
“The Island has accomodated karting for nigh on fifty years so why stop now.”
Why indeed? No-one is suggesting this. The problem is caused by the club, which wants to end the present arrangement and replace it with something else.
“you have suggested they are spoilt brats have you met any of them or their parents.”
No, the commentator expressly said that she was suggesting no such thing.
“would you also like something done about those local mums and dads who put their even younger children on 150+ kilos of pony and then make them jump over ever higher fences ,no !”
Well, this is an extraordinary comment. How can one compare a green, equestrian pastime with motor sport? Similarly, is one comparing like for like? No. For one thing, it is difficult and perhaps mildly amusing to imagine a child travelling at 90 mph on a pony.
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Do they really pedal [not peddle, unless they are selling the things!] sinclair c5s round there? If so, what is the problem? They are electric and they only do 15 mph. Could someone from the club confirm the use of the sinclair c5?
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Most things in life do have dangers with them
http://www.articlesbase.com/personal-injury-articles/street-accidents-2204009.html
http://www.hughston.com/hha/a.horse.htm
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/microwave-ovens-the-proven-dangers.html
etc etc etc
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Most of the points/arguments on here have now turned into pure dribble.
We know your side and you know ours some support some dont.
Why bother continuing it any further?
If you dont know what the club does or are not too sure of the facts then please come up to the loop road on the 20th of June to see what its all about. If you like it you like it if you dont then you dont, end of.
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Amazing comments from the nimbys and treehuggers esp Rozel Aubin. Motorsport in the island has been with us for years and gives endless pleasure to thousands. Inconveniance in respect of the sprint and hill climb is minimal and the enviromental impact tiny compared with a normal rush hour in St Helier.
Safety considerations are substantial especially where children are concerned. Please get off our case and have go at someone else
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@82. tricky, got it in a nutshell mate
@ 77 Mr Mallard thank you very much very nice
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Too many NIMBYs imo
lots of us like a tear up
I like shooting things (NOT peeps btw!!!)
not easyin Jersey
now they want to stop karts and fishing and ban peeps cyciling topless
can’t even fiyht wthout polis gttin bizzy
jersey is goin to dogs – too quite so peeps get bored
all day drinkin, guns, karts, tatoos, strip clubs, cheap stuff
THAT WOLD BRING TOURISTS BACK
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I regularly thrash my 911 round this bit of road, will I still be able to use it if given to the Kart Club?
If not I’ll have to go back to belting down the road that leads from St. Petr to Five Mile Road, not sure what it’s called, hard to read the road signs at 90 plus.
I’ve hit 130 on the straight just before the last 90 degree right turn leading past the Golf course – is this a record?
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nice to see the kart club are leaving all there things there already tyre’s containers must be a case of nobody’s complained so it must be our space so we can see how it will end up FULL OF JUNK
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@ A
Before ou fire off comments like that you should find out the facts first! The equipment that is kept on the inside of the loop is ACTUALLY private property which the club has FULL permission to use. All of the land on the inside is privatly owned and so also is alot of the land around the loop. Only the road itself is states owned!
So tell me thats the first time in about 10 years that you have noticed that or is it just because the track is been discussed at the moment that you fell free to make non factual comments?
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There seems to be some confusion afoot. People can be concerned at the natural environment without being “tree huggers” or “nimbys”. They can also enjoy motor sport without being “tree huggers” or “nimbys”. These terms are bandied about by those who purport to comment on behalf of the kart club, in a seemingly increasingly aggressive way.
The bottom line is this. The club has no entitlement to take over the area, whatever its members might think. It also enjoys a particular concession at the moment. A very generous concession. The present situation has been brought about by the club, which now wants to end that concession and replace it with something else.
I like motor sport. I also believe that those who wish to prevent despoilation of the area and creeping devlopment should be allowed to speak without being shouted down. Given the level of opposition, perhaps it would be sensible if the club were to put this plan on hold and enter into a full consultation. That has not occurred, despite what the club sets out now. I had never heard of this proposition, neither have anybody else to whom I have spoken.
Part of a proper consultatation would involve the club setting out the other sites which it had investigated and the respective reasons why those other sites were not suitable.
Once the site is gone, it will be gone for good. There will be development there.
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Chap at no 87 (”@ A”);
Interesting revelation regarding the private ownership of the neighbouring land.
Also interesting to note your view that leaving a mess there is excusable because it is private. Is this something to which we can look forward if the road gets handed to the club and becomes “private”?
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What this site has done is to highlight some of the extreme speeds that these machines can go at. I guess that the education minister should take a look at the safety of young people up there. I imagine that the club would welcome any inspection.
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This goes out to all who have posted about this subject
Just read Chris Lake’s column tonight in the JEP
no further comment is neccesary
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Do we folks owe the club a living or something? What about peeps who wanna walk there and look at the birds and fings? We don’t wanna find noisy buzzy kart traps hacking around twenty four seven, that would put peeps off. better now cos it innit all the time so peeps can go there without being square
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I don’t see how the opinion of one journalist takes things any further, Gavin. The fact that you believe that “no further comment is necessary” shows the palpable arrogance of the stance taken by the club and its apparent failure to listen to dissent.
It is for the club to show why the existing arrangement should be departed from. It is not for the public (which owns the site) to show why the club should not take it over.
There is a difference. The problem is, the club either can’t see it, or more likely, doesn’t want to see it.
Thie forum has been valuable because, not only has it drawn attention to this application, but is has also thrown open the attitude of the club’s members. One has to say that some of the comments posted here by apparent members do nothing to invoke any public sympathy for the cause.
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@93 Snap on tool
You are correct in saying that this forum has certainly highlighted this topic maybe to the ultimate detriment to the kart club’s plans
Maybe if the original JEP headline had been “Kart club would like permanent track ” and not ” want permanent track ” the opinions expressed against the club’s proposition perhaps would have been a little less vociferous.
I feel that many of the “contre” posts have also been palpably arrogant in their nature as the “Pour” and would humbly suggest that any one interested in this topic goes onto http://www.jerseykartclub.com and takes a look at what the club are proposing also it gives the dates of all the race meetings , come up and meet the boys and girls and their mums and dads and make your concerns known to them
Thank you
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Thanks Gavin. I support the kart club. I would not be in favour, however, of this public site being passed to the club. I believe that the authorities should do rather more to accommodate the club somewhere else. The waterfront must have been a failed opportunity, although I think that there must still be scope there. There must be somewhere else that is not a beauty spot. It is not about bashing the karters at all in fact.
I am not sure what the response of individual club members would be if they were to be confronted by those who do not favour the plans, nor I am sure as to the status of any such prospective exchange. I should think that all concerned are very nice family people. What we are looking at, though, are planning considerations and the fate of this sensitive site in years to come. Surely the best thing would be for the club to rest on the existing agreement for now and to lobby for a location on the waterfront or on some other quasi industrial setting. I anticipate that the organisation would receive a lot of support, mine included.
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