Chamber plea to shoppers: ‘Buy local’
Tuesday 23rd December 2008, 3:00PM GMT.
IT is more important than ever to shop locally, according to the chairman of small businesses for the Jersey Chamber of Commerce.
David Warr has said that current economic pressures on shoppers and businesses have highlighted the need for Islanders to be educated about the importance of spending their money in local stores. He said that the pound in shopper’s pockets was a powerful tool to help boost Jersey’s economy. ‘There is no more important time than now to spend locally,’ he said.
‘If £1 in your pocket is spent in a locally owned store it helps that store pay wages, utility bills, rates, social security contributions – all that money percolates through our own economy and helps us keep our infrastructure going. If you spend your £1 on a company that is not based locally, that money goes straight out of our economy and into wherever that company is based.’
Mr Warr, who owns Cooper & Co, said that, although there were some products that would always have to be imported into the Island, shoppers should choose locally where possible. ‘If things can be bought locally you should try to buy them locally,’ he said. ‘If people don’t spend in local stores it impacts on profit and can affect local jobs in the long run.’
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I will buy local when, and only when, prices fall and local businesses become more competitive. It’s disgraceful what some companies expect you to pay in Jersey.
One case in point that I recently experienced. I bought a brand-new bed in July from a UK supplier; it’s a 6ft bed with a memory-foam mattress – it cost me £1,200 (with free shipping) and was delivered in three days. More-or-less the same product here in Jersey was going to cost me £1,000 for just the bed frame! The mattress was another £1,200 on top of that! And guess what? The delivery time was five to ten days.
Guess which option I went for? It was a tough choice.
Local companies really do have to compete better than what they have been used to in the past. The internet is now their greatest competitor. One final point, in my belief, customer service in Jersey is quite poor, maybe this stems from complacency, so I would rather spend my £1 on-line and not have to worry about surly service.
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Many Local businesses charge a disproportionate mark up on the products sold. If I can get the same item for 1/2 the price online why shouldn’t I. I do tend to go to the local retailer first and ask for a more reasonable price. If they do reduce the margin (even by 10-15% ) I do prefer to buy locally. In a time when we are all suffering financially, it is a bit much to ask the buyer to shop locally and ignore the price difference. I did a family shop last week at one of the local supermarkets , it did include some wine and Christmas nibbles, but even still was a weekly shop for a family of 5 and cost over £450. If I could buy my food online from the UK, I would certainly consider it.
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Bring your prices down to an acceptable level and you will notice an appreciable increase in your revenue my friend.
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why should we buy locally when we are being charged way over the top charging us uk tax,very few shops take this off,so therefore shall continue shopping on line except for one or two that remove the vat boots and b&q are cheaper than uk.i would like the name of others if anyone knows?before i part with my money
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Mr Warr you should ask the same of some of your members that use UK companies to supply goods & services that can be supplied locally.
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Sorry but this arguement does not hold up.
If i can buy the same product for less from one retailer then i will.
In the last year i have seen my bills rise over 25% and my pay by only 3%
Dont tell me to buy local when the UK local shops charge more than 20% than the UK tax free price.
And dont tell me to buy local when i can get specialist tea on the internet from a UK retailer (VAT included) at the fraction of the local price.
I will Shop around and if local is cheaper then may be the local retailers will be surported.
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You are asking us to shop locally well I do say have you thought about the prices you are actually charging and plus the Jersey Pound itself it worth £1.10 isn’t it about time us islander got value for our money rather than being ripped constantly this even stretches to GST and our income tax ….time for the Gov of Jersey to start sorting things out and maybe people may shop locally….time for you retailer to take these issues up with the state and ask them to take action .
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I do wonder if local retailers have to charge so much because rent is so ridiculously and artificially high! Sensible (and FAR more realistic frankly) rent levels would certainly help lower companies’ expenditure somewhat and hopefully this could translate into prices.
Also, maybe local business owners should be more realistic about the kind of lifestyle they wish to be able to lead… no-one suggests they should not live comfortably but it is not acceptable for local business owners to be making ridiculous profits while charging so much more than the mainland for comparable products. If there are any doing this then they should really have a rethink.
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It almost sounds like they are trying to make us feel charitable towards the Jersey retailiers so that we won’t mind paying vastly inflated prices!
Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, AND he also owens Coopers…is that not a slight conflict of interests…?!!
Personally I love shopping online as it saves me a fortune and I also get the pleasure of avoiding GST
Buying locally is a nice idea in principle but in practice it is blatantly obvious that prices here are considerabley more expensive, not just due to retailers taking a higher percentage but also due to the typical Jersey higher prices on everything from rents to staff wages to import costs. Years of having no real competition, before internet shopping took off, have resulted in Jersey outpricing itself, and I for one will continue to enjoy shopping outside of the island at competitive prices.
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I have read with interest the comments posted about this article and ask your readers a simple question. What happens to their jobs when local consumers don’t buy from the businesses they work for? Simple really, they don’t have a job to go to. That in turn means they won’t even be able to buy goods on-line because they won’t have any money to spend.
Rather than constantly moan about local prices I would suggest the following courses of action.
If you can show a local retailer that you can buy the item they sell significantly cheaper on-line, ask them why? Becasue if the local business hasn’t got a good answer, they won’t be around for much longer. Consumers sometimes forget the power they have.
Secondly if the business is not locally owned and they’re expensive doesn’t this show that they don’t really care about their Jersey customers. Locally owned businesses whose owners live on Jersey are much more responsive and will react to their local customer base because their livelihood depends upon it. Come 2010 if we loose significant numbers of locally owned businesses GST will have to be even higher, because no UK owned retailers will be paying local taxes on the profits they make in this Island.
Finally don’t forget the standard of living every one of us demands. A minimum wage of over £6.00 per hour will barely allow you to live on Jersey, yet many of the people making the cheap clothing that is readily availble on the high street don’t get much more than 7p per hour.
The quality of life we enjoy is expensive to maintain, yet there seem to be an awful lot of people who have no qualms about this being gained at the expense of millions of people who are much less fortunate than ourselves.
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For expensive purchases what I often do is get an internet price (exc VAT) and take it into a local shop and ask if they can match/beat it. Some spout rubbish like it is the ‘catalogue’ price and they can’t go cheaper even though it includes VAT! However most local companies do make the effort especially if you speak to the manager/owner.
The little extra effort is worth it when you know you have spent your money here and still achieved a good price. You can also get advice you won’t get from Amazon etc and it’s also so much easier to return should the item be faulty.
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David Warr could you please offer your advise on the following if you insist on buying local.
I wish to purchase one of those small laptops for traveling.
In a local shop they are charging £264 but on an internet company they are charging £212 delivered.
£52.00 difference
Now tell me sir what i should do?
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I declare an interest as a Jerseyman who has worked for local businesses all of my career I am also a member of the Chamber of Commerce.
The issue of higher prices is a lot more complicated than Jersey prices are higher therefore local retailers must be “ripping people off”. If you want independent evidence of this take a look at the Economic Digest on the States website. It shows that GVA (basically profit and wages) from retail and wholesale was £32,000 per employee compared to £162,000 per employee from finance in 2007 (source page 33 of 2008 Economic Digest). The average of all sectors is £70,000.
Jersey retailing is already very competitive with may UK owned retailers already here so it cannot just be about competition or perceived lack of it. Some politicians will have you believe that we can have it all. Jersey average mainland prices but with higher island wages and pensions that has not happened so far because is just not possible, no matter how much competion you have.
I don’t believe any local retailer is asking for sympathy just a deeper understanding of the issues involved and the fact that you have a better chance of seeing money again when it is spent locally.
In summary Jersey may have higher prices than many other places but there does not seem to be any evidence that this is converting to excess profits for retailers so what is the answer?
Some of your contributors will say who cares but certainly not the thousands of people who work and invest in the sector.
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Mr Warr, your comments are logical but when it comes down to it, the consumer will go where they can get the best value. I asked a TV shop here to match an internet price once and they refused and told me to buy off the internet (I did and saved £200) So what are we supposed to do if that is the repsonse many local businesses give?
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Thank you David for your considered and eloquent reply. I am happy to buy locally if the price is truly reflective of the goods on offer. A few pounds more on a product locally is more than justified to compensate for higher salaries, rent etc – however a lot of companies have been blatantly fleecing the Jersey consumer for many years and now people are becoming more savvy and comparing prices with the internet which is making some of them panic.
You suggested asking the retailer why there is a difference. Well, about a year ago I wanted to purchase a very big flat screen TV. This was a major purchase of a few thousand pounds. I first checked Amazon then wandered down to an electrical shop with a local reputation for being the best value. After patiently waiting for the salesperson to finish regaling his colleague of his weekend exploits he explained the model and hit me with the price. The different between Amazon and his price was almost five hundred pounds! I did inquire as to the difference and was told that this was due to ….. wait for it ….. “shipping costs”. Needless to say my TV was ordered from the internet!
I am sorry but the old chestnut of shipping costs doesn’t wash with people any more. The goods come from the Far East to a UK distribution centre then on to Jersey. The extra cost of 20 – 30 per cent cannot be justified.
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Is that the same Kevin Keen, ex big chief of Jersey Dairy, a complete local monopoly if ever there was one, who charges us a quid for a litre of milk?
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It would seem that most of the criticism on prices comes from the electronic goods sector, yet from my limited knowledge of this sector there seems to be plenty of local competition. Are the price differentials because some on-line retailers can afford to offer loss leaders to clear stock? I don’t know, but I would suggest that if local electronics businesses are getting it so wrong we wouldn’t have the number of local businesses that we do.
The consumer isn’t dumb
It’s also noteworthy to see how every local business gets tarred with the same brush of “ripping people off”. I think Kevin Keen makes a very good point when he compares the average profit generated by an individual in retail in comparison with finance. There is no comparison.
The points made about quality of service are extremely valid, and ones which many retailers would do well to heed. If you’re not able to be competitive on price for whatever reason then the only thing left to you is great customer service. I think a recession might sort that one out!
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I do sit on both sides of the fence, as both a consumer and involved in a family business which includes a small amount of retail.
Recntly I went to a local soft furnishing company and was quoted a price of £932.50. For EXACTLY the same product, I purchased on the Net for £264, including VAT and postage – a huge saving!
However, freight to the island does add 7%-10% to retail prices. Shop rent in St Helier is extremely high.
How many people reading this forum go to a local shop, touch and feel the product, compare features etc. and then buy online? The time that you spend in that shop, talking to sales assistants, etc. all has to be paid for so buying online is a self fulfilling prophecy.
All David is requesting is that people check out and talk to shop owners / staff before making a decision.
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I needed a water pump for work. Three local companies gave me a quote for a specific pump and the cheapest was £467 and a 7-10 day delivery time. The internet offered the exact same pump for £190.
£277 CHEAPER!!
The order was placed 4pm and arrived 10am the following morning.
Justify that for me please David & Kevin.
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we are being held to ransom over food prices and now want us to shop locally and give more of our money to these rip-off merchants?no we have a choice buying goods in uk or internet where we get value for our money,unfortunatly we have to put up with overpriced and substandard food in the 2 cartels especially perishable goods,fruit and veg bought locally is double the price of uk so thats off the menu,and no-one will convince me it is all down to global price rises.we are eating too much junk food because of this,the government will reap the rewards because of this with bad health in later life paying sickness/invality benifits to more and more people
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Top Gear Scalextric Set £63 from Amazon delivered, no VAT or GST to pay. Same set in well known local toy store £93.
V Beat drum sticks £29.99 at local store, £19.99 online.
Why would I want to spend 50% more buying locally?
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Why should I make myself considerably poorer in order to support a local man to stay in business? Since when did they take on charity status?
If the price was the same vis a vis local and non local produce I would always go for the local first. As it happens I now shop for food predominantly in Iceland. The quality may not be quite as good but the food won’t kill me and the prices cannot be beaten. It will help me to survive until times get better.
However, in the current economic crisis there is no room in my purse for sentiment. While local businesses are crying out “support me, I am local”, I am crying out the same message to them.
What pray, are they proposing to do to help me in return?
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I have to respond to the milk price comment, as it highlights a fundamental problem we have in our society. We have absolutely no idea how much it really costs to produce our food.
In the UK 1,000′s of farmers have gone out of business because they can’t get the Supermarkets to pay them a sustainable price for their produce. A local Dairy herdsman will be up around 5 a.m. 365 days a year because Cows don’t stop producing milk at weekends,yet we begrudge paying him/her a fair price for their efforts! no wonder so few people want to go into agriculture these days.
For those who think a 3rd Supermarket operator is somehow being stopped from coming into Jersey, think again. Mr. Tesco / Asda / Sainsbury etc. only has to pick up the ‘phone to Mr. Sandpiper and pay the price required to come into this Island. If it’s all so lucrative and there’s so much money to be made why don’t they? People talk about having “more choice” but on a Island of only 90,000 people we are always going to have less choice than on the UK mainland, it’s simple supply and demand.
The problem that seems to be going over everyone’s head is that when a pound leaves this Island it leaves our economy for good and unless we have successful businesses who are able to attract that pound back into our economy we all become poorer.
There will always be the “cheaper” option to buy on-line, but the problem is that when you take this to its extreme it will result in there being far fewer local jobs for local people. You end up in a vicious circle then of local people without jobs relying on the State to support them. This in turn means that those in work will inevitably have to pay higher taxes, which in turn means that local goods become more expensive.
As a business person I’m not asking for charity, I am though asking to be given a chance to compete, if I’m not given that chance then I’ll pull down the shutters tomorrow with the inevitable loss of local jobs and local taxable profits.
Jersey has done amazingly well with the Finance industry; its success has hidden many of the ills that blight the UK mainland. In 2009 I believe we’ll all need to start understanding how our economy works and then maybe some of the issues many of the contributors to this discussion have highlighted will start to be remedied.
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Bambi Woods, i agree totally with your comments. A business is there to make money and nothing else. Most business owners in Town live in nice houses and have become customed to a certain life style. Now that lifestyle is threatened they want us to support them!
Well what about us?
My bills have jumped 25-30% (maybe more)in the last year and i have had a less than inflation rise of 3%.
Sorry to all you business man but maybe you should be tightening your belts as well.
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David – I understand you completely and agree a 3rd supermarket is not what we need. But to convince the public retailers have to demonstrate why produce, especially food, costs what it does. I have suggested before that a large local retailer, preferably a food retailer, opens up their books (within reason of commercial sensitivity), as an offer of goodwill and transparency, to demonstrate why produce costs what it does following the trail from purchase/production to shelf.
May be as chair of the CoC you could suggest something like this?
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I would love to be able to buy locally but unfortunatly with the high rents and high food costs I cant afford to buy locally cause my wages arent getting any higher and prices arent getting any lower sorry but it is as simple as that.
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Buy local, I’ll buy local when local retailers start offering better value/not charging ‘UK VAT’
Staff that understand English would also be of a help.
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Yes Spring Heeled Jack I am the same person who worked at the Dairy. The owners of the business the island’s dairy farmers were acutely aware of the cost of living in Jersey ( they live here too) which is why the wholesale price was held just as long as they could ( retailers set the shelf price). Over 5 years between 2002 and 2007 when the cost of living went up by 20% I am pretty sure the retail price actually went down. Yes prices are higher than the UK but it is was certainly not due to profiteering.
Another point about the Dairy around 80p of very pound taken stays in the Island going to employee’s wages, farmers, taxes and the many other local suppliers.
As to Bella’s comments about price fixing cartels, this is almost certainly illegal. She should report any evidence she has to the JCRA immediately their phone number is 514990. There are very very substantial fines for breach of the competition law. I support local businesses but do not support breaking the law.
Finally and once again I am not looking for sympathy or charity just asking people to give local businesses a chance, maybe they are being “ripped off” by their off island suppliers?
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David Warr & Kevin Keen, while I respect your comments I still have to disagree.
You both use costs, overheads and employment costs as the reason for higher prices and I agree Jersey is dearer to produce goods hence minimal manufacturing companies that export. But you all ways scare monger by saying jobs will be lost if we the public do not pay these over inflated prices. Well so be it, if you can not afford to trade then don’t, there are plenty of retailers and entrepreneurs to take your place.
But you as businessmen yourselves are biased. Business and retailers open up shop to make a profit and nothing else, they don’t care about the Jersey person as these are the people who are going to pay their bills and pay for their lifestyle. As Jersey is expensive then so are the goods sold to cover their lifestyle.
We will all see in 2009 of what leading a costly lifestyle leads to because the recession that is biting Jerseys back side was brought about by people being greedy whether it be in the Finance industry or by the public spending what they cannot afford.
Mr Warr & Mr Keen, Jersey people have been ripped off for years that they have become accustomed to been ripped off along with the excuse of this is an Island. Milk, Local Veg, Bread, Newspapers, Electric, Gas, Water, Shipping…. the list goes on. YES this is an Island but France is only 14 miles away!
It’s time to be realistic now and All start been thrifty with our money and that includes you Businessmen.
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the 2 main players got together to charge 5p on plastic bags to start on same day,if thats not price fixing mark what is?nice little earner for them makes you wonder what else they get together to discuss and the bags are still free in uk they have agreed to cut giving out bags by 50% some time next year.m&s in uk was the only 1 last year to charge 5p for bags and it cost them dearly as many loyal customers deserted them in droves.if i buy a skirt or any item i am given a bag and rightly so,in fact 1 day last week went in co-op just for a couple of items but seen a few more items to add and when i paid at till i realised i only had the one bag with me so told assistant there,s no way im walking home carrying these extra items in my arms,i gave her 5 items back she called superviser to sort out my change from till without a word spoken so they lost £5.80p as i say nice little earner for them and thats what i shall do from now on
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Don’t shoot the messenger!
This is an interesting debate, but i think the victims are being unfairly picked upon.
I’m a member of the Chamber of Commerce, and have dealings with both Kevin and David.
David is a rare example in this island where a local company has excelled and can provide excellent quality and excellent service and at affordable price. Price is just one of the factors we use when purchasing goods. He is testament that local companies can suceed and have loyal customers. This is why he has the position he does at the Chamber. An excellent role model.
A lot of the goods mentioned here are the ones served by retailers offering not just high prices, but low levels of service. This is where we as a business community need to up the game plan and adjust and adapt.
Voisins is a good example of another local firm adapting. They have adjusted what they sell, how the sell it, and have fair pricing. It can be done and done very well.
Retailers need to be smarter, customers need to be smarter. I’ve recently found some electrical items – laptop, lcd tv etc cheaper in Jersey than amazon, and no suprise it was at one of the stores that employ decent staff and as a result offer good advice and service.
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Bella – as a co-op director I can tell you that neither it, nor the other major retailers, make a penny out of selling disposable plastic bags for 5p. The measure was an environmental one and as a result the usage of such bags as dropped to a tiny fraction of what it was before. All cash generated by the sale of these bags is donated to charity.
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peter can you explain to me why food is so expensive ? without using the usual transport excuse i have been in many co-ops in uk and their prices are well below yours and no they don,t charge for bags either, also in islands off scotland who charge the same as mainland with roughly the same pay to staff as here. thanks
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Well Bella, that is a rather broader issue than plastic bags. The first thing to say is that I don’t accept the prices are that different. As part of the same buying group as most UK co-ops we are in a position to compare across a broad range of items and not just the few the few “well known items” which feature in typical shopping bag comparisons. If there is a difference, and I accept their is some, then little of it is down to shipping. Far more is down the higher cost base in the islands. For instance typical shop floor wages in the CICS are 40% higher than in UK co-ops. That is quite right as our staff also need to survive in the high cost economies of the Channel Islands. Capital costs are also far higher.
I think some people will never be convinced that they are not being ripped off in the islands. All I can say is that as a co-op, owned in equal shares by all of our 100,000 members in the islands, there is no incentive to rip anybody off. We would only be ripping off ourselves, our customers are our owners. We are essentialy a “not for profit” organisation with any surplus we make being ploughed back into the assets of the society – which are owned by our customers – or else returned to them by way of divi.
Returning to plastic bags, I really do assure you that any income from the 5p sales will go to charity. In due course we will make public details of exactly which charities will benefit but they will probably be mainly environmental in nature.
Feel free to call me on Gsy 238435 if you want to go into this in greater depth.
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thanks for that peter,but i,m still not convinced,the divi we pay for ourselves,i have given up buying any fruit or veg from your shops as most of it only lasted a day or two before going off.i got fed up having to bring it back,i get much better value with frozen food from iceland and now even m&s have good value on food as there is no waste,and prices in uk have been dropping for weeks now but not for jersey,and the jury is out on this so called “global warming”when everything you buy is wrapped in plastic and more plastic.the building of new runways ie heathrow and stanstead causing tons and tons of toxic pollutions is leaving me even less convinced
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Interesting, I now know our cows are more expensive to feed than English ones. Why do I see local potatoes cheaper in the UK, and there is no point trying to tell me that UK stores are selling our produce at a loss. So Ill stick to internet shopping, checking out the goods in town first, then buying cheaper on the net with usually free delivery thrown in to my door – not like here. Also I would prefer supporting local employees if I could go to a shop and be guaranteed a helpful polite service.
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