Quallies clash
Friday 9th January 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
JERSEY’S housing qualifications should not be reduced, according to newly appointed Assistant Housing Minister Sean Power.
He says that the market is overinflated and that locals are struggling to get on to the property ladder. This view appears to put him in conflict with his minister, Senator Terry Le Main, who has been in favour of a reduction to ten years.
Deputy Power (pictured) said that an internal investigation had recommended leaving the qualifying period at its present level of 12 years. But Housing’s stance on the situation was unclear this morning after Housing Minister Terry Le Main said that nothing was being discussed or decided until a finished report he had sanctioned was completed next month.
Speaking yesterday, Deputy Power said there was too much instability in the Island for the States to start ‘messing with the market’. He said that a recent internal review by the population and migration department was against reducing the waiting period for housing qualifications this year.
2012 CYCLE SLAM
Dallaglio Flintoff 2012 Cycle Slam
Read Graeme Le Saux's daily blogs
Greece-London Marathon on a Bike
The Dallaglio Flintoff 2012 Cycle Slam
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals/Departures
Harbours Arrivals/Departures
Bus Information/Timetables
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
Big shame and discrimination !!!
Report abuse
At last, someone who sees the big picture.
Report abuse
Finally some sense!
Report abuse
Good man I think the majority of people agree that it is a bad idea, judging by the responses to Terry’s proposal.
Down with Le Main
Report abuse
Good on Sean Power! At least there are some people in the States that take the time to listen to the people, and the Internet forums have made their views very clear so far on this. Terry Le Main is not a voice of the people but a voice for the property developer. I sympathise for people that are waiting, but when we have people born here who are being disadvantaged by zero CGT and inflated property prices, you have to ask, who are more important? This get rich quick scheme through buying and selling houses and no CGT is ethically unfair on the young people of Jersey and has gone on for far too long. People who were born here only want a reasonably priced roof over their heads and with the economic downturn and a review or erratic lending, for a few it may soon start to become a possibility.
Report abuse
The reduction in the qualification period has cost the tax payers billions. Housing has built huge quantities of social housing and filled it with immigrants and their grannies, aunties and other realtion. That is why we have had our tax rates increased and have to pay GST Quallies period should go up not down
Report abuse
Instead of changing the time limit for non Jersey resident, what about removing the 10 year rule for Jersey born residents.
Reducing the current wait from 12 – 10 years gives Jersey born residents no advantage over newcomers to the island.
Report abuse
Question is will they listen? They only said recently that there is a lack of social housing for local people and Le Main wants to make the situation worse? More people for less housing. I say NO to this.
Report abuse
With the price of housing out of the reach of so many, it seems madness to further reduce the housing qualification period.
We need prices to fall in the housing market.
No, No, No, to any reduction.
Report abuse
I think that a reduction in the qualifying period would be a bad thing, I waited 16 years for my quallies and it did me no harm. I thoroughly enjoyed paying the mortgage on my landlords home whilst huddled up with my wife in our cosy 9ft square basement room. Some of my happiest memories were spent huddling around the candle, trying to keep warm because the landlord wouldn’t put the heating on.
These people don’t know they’re born, why can’t we take tax and social security payments from them and never let them have quallies,better still why can’t they go back home but still send tax & social payments along with over inflated rent to our locally qualified landlords.
This kind of left wing lunacy is bringing us closer to a fair and democratic juristiction and no one wants that!
Report abuse
Blame it all on immigrants Lee ,its easy .
Report abuse
This is was a very nice idea from Senator Terry Le Main but new people new idea and nothing will ever change again talk talk that is it.They need to past to action on this island and to modern life style it is now 2009 and not the 19th century.Everything is against average people,they just want to be a paradise for rich one.
So Senator Terry Le Main should been better off without is supposed to be “Assistant”.How can he be is assistant if he does not share the same idea, he should resign at least they will save a bit of money with that
“credit crunch”.
Report abuse
Mr Griff
If you have lived and worked in a place for ten years does this still class as a ‘newcomer to the island’?
Report abuse
Well done Sean Power,the next thing which needs sorting is an immigration policy.
Report abuse
The views of a lot of people on this site are quite disturbing, a lot of you are saying ‘NO’ to equal rights for inhabitants of this Island!!!
In my time in Jersey it became obvious that complaining and not doing anything about it is almost a national pastime for ‘locals’. Whilst I understand everybody’s right to an opinion I found it hard to understand how people who had so much could feel so hard done by.
If the finance industry does leave and takes its ‘immigrant’ workforce with it, the ‘locals’ of Jersey will be hard-pressed to maintain full employment or even 50% employment. However if this exodus does happen then there will be ample amount of housing for the ‘locals’ This will lead to a massive reduction in house prices and put many of the ‘locals’ who have been successful enough to buy their own home into negative equity. Businesses will close and unemployment will rise, St Helier will look like a ghost town and the standard of living will drop considerably. There is no longer much of a tourism industry or farming industry and a lot of locals with considerable financial skills and experience will be unemployed and find it hard to feed their families. This will put a massive strain on state resources and a lot of ‘local’ people who consider Jersey a ‘paradise’ may change their minds and might follow the ‘immigrants’ in search of a better life for them and their families.
I wonder how these ‘locals’ would feel about facing a 12 year ‘qualies’ period in their chosen country. Would it be fair to them and their families to be made to rent overpriced substandard accommodation? Would it be fair to them to have to pay the same taxes as their neighbour and not have the same rights? Surely it would be terrible for Jersey people to face such discrimination when all they want is a better life for themselves and their families.
Thankfully this would not happen in the majority developed and civilised countries.
Jersey did ok before finance, but the world has changed and I doubt very much if it would remain a nice place after finance and the loss of its offshore status.
Be careful what you wish for……..
Report abuse
Further to the comments above I am very surprised on people reactions.Over half the population on this Island are immigrants, which mostly help people to pay their mortgages by renting the non quails or quails properties for a very high and unconditional fee. With the current credit crunch, 10 or 12 years, I don’t think make any difference right now, as people struggle already with the high economic prices, no mention bank loans. But please instead of trying to resolve the immigration problem which soon resolved himself and is not even a subject, focus on the changes which can help and improve island without any discrimination and resist opinion. So, yes Mr.S.Power as long you look out for the best of this Island instead of peoples private pocket, keep it 12 instead of 10 years.
Report abuse
Keith-surely that was your choice, wasn’t it?
Report abuse
alexa – Keith-surely that was your choice, wasn’t it?
I’ve been hearing this argument for over 20 years, it’s a re hash of the “there’s a boat out in the morning”
Yes I chose to remain in Jersey in sub standard overpriced accommodation because it was better than returning to unemployment in the UK, it doesn’t mean that it is right. Local people can buy or rent any property or should they choose, move the the UK where no such restriction applies and I know that many do. I accepet the need for a period of qualification but surely 10 years of contributing to the local economy, paying taxes and social security is enough.
How many people have lived and paid taxes in Jersey and returned to their country of origin. Does the state refund the social security and tax payments?
The people you really should be concerned about are those brought over by the banks, allegedly to carry out a specialist task that locals cannot do ( and apparently can’t be trained for either ) who recieve an automatic J cat, pay nominal rent ( if any ) and become qualified after 10 years having never trained up a local replacement.
Report abuse
re equal rights.
Are there not restrictions on housing, employment and benefits for immigrant workers elsewhere in the world? Of course there is.
You cannot simply buy a property anywhere you want, anywhere in the world. Restrictions are imposed for mainly social and economic reasons.
It is not too difficult to see, on a very small island with little or no room for expansion, why restrictions are necessary.
As unfair as it may appear to those who have to wait, it is also not too difficult to see how an open door policy would negatively affect a much larger proportion of the population. it is therefore about achieving some form of balance.
At the moment the balance is against further house price rises which would naturally occur if hundreds more people were overnight able to buy. This would indeed create unfairness to the hundreds of people saving for years to buy property who then had to compete in a larger market.
It be not be fair, but it’s unfair for a very good reason.
Report abuse
Restrictions on house prices is one thing but restrictions on rental properties is completely different! no matter how you try to justify it…
Report abuse
10 years is not an open door! Its a long slog for those that do it.
If the Uk and France did the same the Jersey residents that flock to the UK and France to buy property you’d all scream blue murder that it was unfair. Or is justice just a one sided set of scales?
Report abuse
“Does the state refund the social security and tax payments?” – Keith
No of course it doesn’t Keith and the reason why it doesn’t is because every day you live in Jersey you avail yourself of the benefits of the monies you have paid in.
For example, even if you have not been signed off sick in 16 years your money has been there and available to you should you fall upon hard times.
You have still had the security of a police force to make sure that you live in relative peace, a hospital, a fire service an ambulance service, a sewer system etc etc etc.
I even think (but don’t know) that any pension contributions you have made can be transfered to the UK if you moved back.
As for your hovel that you lived in, I will say this. As a Jerseyman I too had to live in cold damp, overpriced hovels with horrible landlords. The only difference I suppose is that I had more choice of hovels than you.
You chose to stay here because it was better than any alternative you had. England, for example, doesn’t have the same restrictions as here because it is a lot bigger. If it had the same population density as Jersey has (England 1,015 per sq mile – Jsy 2,018 per sq mile (Wikipedia)) I reckon restrictions would be bought in there too as England alone would have to accomodate well over 100 million people.
Now think of England, with its current and future unemployment and other social problems; double its population, and you might see the sort of problems it would have.
It can barely cope now!
Report abuse
House prices in Jersey are already too expensive without adding to the problem by reducing housing qualifications.
Report abuse
The reason for high-rents-for hovels in Jersey is because of the failure of the Housing Minister.
The Housing department under Le Main (10 years) could have brought in more rental control, but he has failed to do it.
There is in place a Rent Control Tribunal which is administered through Housing, when was it last used? so long ago it is now part of history.
Look at it plain and simple, there are new flats in town which are so small they should be classed as ‘slums’ and the Rent Control Tribunal should be used to reduce the rents, I say ‘reduce rents’ because an awful lot are owned by ‘absentee landlords’ who are making a fortune because of the failure of Senator Le Main and his Housing Dept.
Senator Le Main also wants to demolish 100s of perfectly good homes which could be used for the extra people who will gain their quallies when they are reduced to 10 years.
Each time under Le Main you reduce quallies house prices go up and up and up…..
Deputy Power should be in charge of Housing.
From the son of parents whose families have been here for 100s of years and whose children still have to do 10 years to get their quallies.
“Not bean here long enough eh?”
Report abuse
To the people moaning because they have come here and have to wait for quallies it is my opinion that you new that when you came here so its something you have to live with or leave.
If i had to live in the uk before i could buy a property and wanted to live in the uk then i would abide by that law. I am sure i would moan about it but such is life.
The reason an island of 40 square miles needs this qualifying period is because where will we put all the houses or flats required for a mass influx of people wanting to live here.
You left the uk for many different reasons, employment, lower crime rates, or simply just because it is a nice place to live. If the quallies are reduced to zero, how long do you think it will be before you too are moaning about lack of space or higher ccrime rates or low employment figures. You cant have it both ways.
I am not against anyone coming here to live and have respect for anyone from uk who wants to live here. I do believe however that you need to stop moaning about it.
Report abuse
Yes i think you should keep the housing qualifications at twelve years , I also think that the uk goverment should also have the qualification period for all jersey people that go to the uk and are wanting housing.
Whats good for the goose.
Report abuse
Its a question of supply and demand.
If you want cheap affordable housing don’t look at Jersey go elsewhere, its because too many want, what there is not enough of to go around that has caused the problem.
If you want to avail yourself of such a fabulous place to live, do your 10-12 years to prove your commitment to the community. If there were not so many people willing to do this the period would not be necessary. anyway while they are here they are earning much more than they could in most other places.
Bergerac, I was not born in Jersey I have worked and lived on 3 continents but consider myself local due to my commitment to the island and time spent here. I had to do my quallies, I consider that time well spent
I hope you are as happy as I am here, wherever you ended up
Report abuse
What I find cheeky is the fact that many Jersey Landords are actually living and working in England. Not renting but buying property in England. Quite hypocritical.
Report abuse
Martin – you’re quite right – the States should stop outside speculation in the Jersey property market immediately – it’s not just cheeky, it’s downright wicked – however at present it’s totally legal. Any new developments shold have a clause to this effect imposed at the planning stage whilst the requisite legislation is being enacted.
Outlawing this practice would contribute to lowering both house and rent prices.
This is something we can all lobby our States members about.
Report abuse
look at rent rebate, how many millions does it cost now?
to me it is saying thats how much people are not being paid or how over priced rents are.
rachman must of been reincarnated in jersey.
Report abuse
I am sure they wouldn’t even let half of us in to Australia to live! and thats a much bigger Island.
Report abuse
ive lived and payed tax for 11 years.. am i classed as a newcomer :S
its rediculous how people blame it all on immigrants.
Report abuse
@dave brown
Wouldn’t surpirse me that when the rent rebate scheme came in the proposers in the States where landlords themselves. Nice little earner eh?
Report abuse
I am an immigrant to the island and I knew that I would be restricted to where I could live. This is the choice I made and I am willing to live by the rules but more importantly I am willing to look at what is best for Jersey. Although the reduction to 10 years would improve my situation I do not agree that it is a good thing for the island, particularly some of the reasons given for the reduction. I have heard that housing prices are falling because there is no demand. This is not completely accurate. Plenty of people would like to own but banks are no longer willing to offer the huge loans required to by a Jersey property. Reducing the qualifications will not necessarily increase house sales, but will more likely mean a bigger pool of people being refused a mortgage. Eventually the credit crisis will pass and then Jersey may then find it has far too many people with the right and the ability to buy and once more the house price will shoot through the roof.
States members, stop trying a quick fix and for once think about what is best for Jersey in the long run.
Report abuse
Unqualified people are good enough to clean houses and ironing shirts and do some of the work that most people don’t want do to , but not good enough for a decent accommodation….”the smell of discrimination”
Report abuse
Dan even qualified accommodation is poor at times but think if it this way – you’re unqualified and you’re taking the work that a local could do but you get paid less for doing it so employers choose to employ you. Nobody forced you to come over here – we live on a small island and can not let every tom dick and harry in i’m afraid – you want it different try moving to italy or other parts of europe – i can guarantee you’ll be back to jersey in a matter of weeks…
Report abuse
I can see both sides of the fence, I consider myself very lucky to be in Jersey, there is no reason why anyone has to live in second class accomodation. The housing situation needs to be addressed, when we called the housing association to complain that our estate agent’s refused to fix the problem we have, their answer was simple, Sorry you live in non qual accomodation, nothing we can do.” What kind of answer is that for a first world country? When Jersey people leave the island they aren’t hampered by the same restrictions as here they are free to buy and live where they choose. All we are looking for is a fair deal. Fine can’t buy a house for 10 years, but what about dropping the rentals on non quals to 5 years? How many years are you required to be here before your classed as being Bean?
Report abuse
If Jersey was to have a proper immigration policy then Jersey would only take the best and then the rest would be left in their own countries. At the moment people are very lucky as Jersey doesn’t stop them coming here. Get a proper immigration policy and those that can’t speak English, have no qualifications, have no trade or means to support themselves wouldn’t get in. How many of Jersey’s incomers fit into any of the above when they first arrive here? I bet its quite a few.
Jersey cannot keep taking people due to its size. It already has around a 50% immigrant community it would be interesting to see what would happen in the UK if they gained another 50-60 million people, would the locals there be welcoming to these newcomers? I think we all know what the answer would be.
The quickest way to bring the population under control is to remove finance. I would be quite happy for finance to go as the population would halve almost overnight leaving behind those with an interest in Jersey for Jersey’s sake and not just what they can get for themselves. Yes the standard of living, as equates to pounds shillings and pence would fall but as I know there is more to life than money. Quality of life is far more important, capitalism and making big profits due to favourable tax structures is not the way forward if you want this. This way of life as we know it is finite and cannot last indefinately even if people want it to. The credit crunch should have given people an idea about all this by now. Greed and capitalism go hand in glove as far as I am concerned and an excess of one guarentees the other, just look at the state of the planet if you are in any doubt.
Housing should be controlled by the States so that no one can exert an unfair influence over the property market or hold others to ransom with silly rents. Rent rebates should be stopped and rents reduced to a more realistic level for all. Why should tax payers money line speculators pockets?
As for anyone being regarded as a bean why would anyone from overseas want that, as it is often used as a derrogatory term by non locally born people towards the locals? If an English person moved to Australia for example would they ever be considered an Ozie! One of the more polite phrases I bet would be “Crickey them Poms have a nerve don’t they?”
Finally the only way to stop house prices rising is to stop/cut demand or increase supply. How do you do that? Either you stop immigration period and only let people in on a one out, one in policy, or you build on every piece of land until it is covered in concrete, (a property developers delight) then you carry on reclaiming land until maybe Jersey ends up the size of the UK! Maybe then supply and demand might balance, but then again maybe not? One thing is for sure 45 square miles will not sustain all the people who think they have a right to come here because they want a better life. This may not be fair but it is a fact of life, just like it is a fact that I would never ever want to live in the UK as Jersey is miles better in every aspect except for the overcrowding.
Report abuse
There is a LOT of issues regarding this matter on immigration however please dont forget the following 1)not many immigrants purchase houses in Jersey 2 they do spend they’re money in the island 3 I would love to see of of the Jersey peiple living in the bedsits that these guys live in (seriously ) 4 ) rent rebate 5 ) Taxes 6 )How many people have lived/ paid taxes in Jersey and returned to their country of origin. Does the state refund the social security and tax payments? 7No doubt Jersey will ultimately loose his offshore status what then J cat anyone ??? Im a immigrant myself ,have been here for 15 years ,don’t have an issue with the qualies ,never had ,never will ,its Jersey’s policy and i respect it as much as anyone should however please dont blame it all on the immigrants as they cannot themselves or even the Jersey folk purchase these houses,leave the qualies as they stand it makes sense in the end of the day ,Terry Le Main in the end just wants to sell.sell ,sell,well MR Le Main its a bit late now for that anyway ,i only pity our children who will have a serious issue in the future with the sort of prices for a house no matter how you see it -thats all ,cheers
Report abuse
Answer me this why do Politicians have two Personas the nice one full of promises when looking for votes and not so much as the curtesy to reply to e. mails. I for one wont bother voting it makes no difference they do what they want when they want and rules have double meanings.Empty promises and minds made up anyway.
Report abuse
Think he is dam right aswell, why should they drop it. Whilst on the subject one major problem is a non qual can buy property but can not live in it, so the big investors come in buy the property that is resonably priced and then rent it to people who have quals for a fortune, where is the fairness!
Report abuse
Bring on an entity that is able to control rent and living standards of these s#*t holes! How can people get away with letting out overpriced, old, cramped, many times dirty and unhealthy accommodation in a modern place like Jersey?
Report abuse
Wow,,So much tension !! Thought this article was about the housing quals. Im no immigrant however i am South African with a british passport does this throw me into the Immigrant status.Who knows ?!?!! Like all Jersey locals somedays you’re Jersey and when you want to be you’re English. Are you immigrants when you arrive in UK ?!?!! I somehow dont think so… So lets get back to the article,im all ok with waiting for my quals to buy a house,but by that time it might be £2mil for a one bedroom flat. So i guess i wont bother buying a house but rent over priced Non-quals accom. Leave the Immigrants out of this article your argument should be directed at the the people who made the laws…Who i might say are locals !!
Report abuse
A.S. I am not English and never would want to be thanks. I am Jersey born and we have more links to Brittany and Normandy than England, as this is where we origionate from. No Jersey person worth their salt would want to be classified as English.
Anyone not born in the country they are living in is by definition an immigrant. I would be an immigrant if I went to live in the UK, however this is never going to happen. The UK would be very low on my list of alternative places to live.
Unfortunately every country has issues with immigration and Jersey is no different. However housing should not be used to limit the population. The Jersey government should have the bottle to close its doors to most UK nationals. I think a proper points scheme should be introduced like they have in Australia then Jersey would get the people it wanted and not take those it can do without.
Report abuse