Waterfront over its first hurdle…
Monday 12th January 2009, 2:57PM GMT.
THE Waterfront plans have passed the first planning hurdle.
Environment Minister Freddie Cohen has confirmed to the Waterfront Enterprise Board that, subject to further work and conditions, he is ‘minded to approve’ the plans. That effectively means that the ball is in Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf’s court. He is due to receive reports soon on whether or not Harcourt, the proposed developers, will be able to put the money together to carry out the project.
If the reports say that they can do the work in the current uncertain financial climate, and Senator Ozouf agrees, he will take a proposition to the States, who will make the final decision.
The controversial plans have been drawn up by Hopkins Architects. They feature a development of 14 blocks containing 621,700 sq ft of office space, and 400 flats, with 1,420 underground parking spaces, a 30-bedroom hotel 65 self-catering apartments and three public squares and a covered winter garden. The plans submitted also include lowering Route de la Libération from Gloucester Street through a tunnel to the eastern end of the existing underpass.
• Picture: The Esplanade car park will be lost if the proposals are approved by the States
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All this development and no extra public car parking spaces – sheer lunacy.
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600,000 sq feet plus. Is this vast project really needed? What percentage increase in office space will this represent? Walking round Town these days all you see is shop and office space to let. This development will further fractionate St Helier as it slowly becomes an urban sprawl of concrete and roads to nowhere.
There needs to be an intelligent coherent approach to the future development of St Helier. If the present trend of building on reclaimed ‘greenfield’ sites continues, the Town Centre will contract further and possibly become a ghost town.
People are inherently lazy and will not walk the half mile or so from their new offices to Town and back, especially if its raining!
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It looks like unless the States bite the bullet and say no then the Esplanade Quarter project will be going ahead.
I am fully expecting a three line ‘whip’ to be laid down on this one.
Emails, phone calls and personal chats explaining that the credibility and future of the finance industry is wholly dependent on passing this project.
It looks as risky as a snowball on a bonfire to me and postponing it for a few years would be a good idea but the credibility of the current Council of Ministers is pretty much nailed to the mast on this one, so full steam ahead!
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Without a public record of who votes which way ?
Make the votes known !
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This is another example of our inept politicians putting personal glory ahead of the island of Jersey, as they wish to be remembered for building Jersey’s new and lavish Waterfront (let’s remember that Liverty Wharf is still vacant). People seem to think that global warming etc will not happen, or somehow will be averted. What is clear is that should water levels rise to that expected, then St Helier and the new development would be underwater before it can celebrate its 100th anniversary. Until politicians start to act with a coherent vision of the island and how Jersey can ensure it is inhabitable for future generations we really are just wasting tax payers’ money in a time when this type of development is wholly unnecessary. Similarly for the Incinerator, that site will also be under water in time to come, so why spend £100mn on it, which we all know will be double that once the oil depots have been relocated. Perhaps we should look to build one or two towers tall enough to house shops and offices that jersey needs, and convert town to parkland as well as residential housing.
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The votes will be recorded and they will be in the JEP but you can bet the usual ‘faces’ will be lined up again.
There is a good solid block of Constables and country Deputies who have never had to face a credible challenge at election time.
They backed Frank Walker through thick and thin and doubtless they will back Terry le Sueur as well.
But if the Esplanade Quarter goes bad then this could be the end for them as it may leave the island with a huge problem.
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If it over the first hurdle, then will someone please raise the fence! Considering the amount of empty commercial space in Jersey at present is any more needed? In this as most other major developments, follow the money, that will tell you why decisions are made. Cynical? Yep! Jersey used to be independent, it is now more like UK poltics than the UK.
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So we go ahead with a huge building site, with 500 immigrant workers and a litigation prone developer. Sounds like a wonderfully cunning plan.
The Jersey tax payer will be forking out for this for the next 100 years whilst the empty offices and shops rot away in an urban ghetto. Just what we want.
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I’d really like to know who is going to use this huge space! considering that most of the new development now taking place in St. Helier and over the last couple of years has been the in finance and legal field.
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not only have they lost the plot but the whole allotment if they think this crazy idea will work,when unemployment is rising the world over,jersey wo,nt escape the slaughter as they keep telling us. house prices will keep falling,and still be too dear for locals.this pie-in-the-sky idea should be scrapped altogether,never mind put on the back boiler
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Given that Freddie had already recommended the development it was hardly going to be a tough hurdle to jump.
As for the chances of making any money for the States of Jersey…I’m with the snowball on a bonfire analogy.
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Who will be buying the 400 flats (along with the other 200 to be built at Westmount by good old Dandara)? Of course-the people who are gaining their quallies a couple of years early who have all managed to save fifty grand deposit while they have been waiting.
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There is no doubt that we are in the first stages of one of the worst recessions for a long time.
One of the hardest hit in a recession is usually the building and building supply industries.
If we have all this money to spend lets use it to spend our way out of the recession to the benefit of local industry rather than give the reins to someone like Harcourt who will import materials and labour from anywhere with only their profit being the overiding criteria. Then they will take their profit and run.
How about the States, or a local management company reducing the project to bite size lumps that local firms can handle.
This may mean the project taking a lot longer and of coarse it will cost more, or maybe less in the long run, but think of the advantages. Local companies will pay local tax. their employees will pay local tax. These people will be part of our community who spend their money in local shops the advantages to our local economy are endless. If it takes longer so what, if things go really wrong and no one is taking on the shops and offices, the whole project can have stages built into it as alternative stop points allowing us to readdress the economics of the problem.
If these bite size lumps are offered, firms paying local tax using local labour and locally produced materials could be given at least a 20% tender advantage over non locals and the Island would still be a winner financially as well as having local companies not going to the wall.
This would not be a charity it would be jersey looking after locals. I might mean our local public servants having to do something they might have to take some responsibility for but surely that what they are paid for, they too might come out at the end of the recession with their jobs.
One thing that always angers me is when I look at our new Magistrates court, a public building in an island famous for its Granite, built with a stone cladding that does not even resemble local stone imported from who knows where, its a disgrace.
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Where the hell is everyone going to park?
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Local Stone, used in the local building, built by the local people in an Island that treats immigrants like dirt and was built on sucking the money from other countries economies….
Jersey, you do make me laugh!
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Trixy, will they be parking in the underground car park or were you expecting parking elsewhere?
Not against this scheme, but think it should have taller buildings, seems crazy that in a small island we build so low, needing more land space and further development in the countryside.
Over all its a very bland design, and somewhat boring design.
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They are hoping to encourage the staff that work there to adopt more ‘imaginative’ ways to get to work eg the bus.
Companies that choose to locate there might find it hard to recruit staff due to the limited parking and facilities.
Many of the apartments may end up being sold on the overseas investment market.
There is obviously a lot of advantages for the developer in this project, the States are going to have to work hard to convince the average islander there is anything in it for them.
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I am amazed at the total negativity of the comments on this project, including that of the JEP – “If this project the Esplanade carpark will be lost….” What about the 1000 plus much needed spaces being created?
Very few local firms in construction have anything of significance in the pipeline, and layoffs have already begun. Harcourt are developers, not a construction company. They do not directly employ anyone. As contracts are handed out, if they are competitive (which given the well-known Jersey greed they may not be!) some at least will go to local firms.
It should also be remembered that much of the value of this contract is with services – with water, electricity, sewage, telephones, all of which are with “local” organisations.
This developmentis the kind of infastructure project that Governments historically create to survive recession – here we already have it on the table, and waiting to go!
Finally, I shudder to think of the compensatory cost to the taxpayer (me!)if the project is cancelled at this stage. I assume Harcourt would be in a good position to sue the States.
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I still want to know who is going to use all these new offices.
Ken W. what do you want taller for? The Island Is not Hong Kong,Singapore or Manhatten, even if it seems to want to be.
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I wonder if there is some sort of motive behind getting all of this work pushed through quickly.
I have been in jersey for 3 years and during that time i see the building at the roundabout just through the tunnel Empty!! Commercial Street has vacant office space – There is a new Office Building on commercial street that is advertising space.
The new shopping center at Liberation Square still doesnt have any shops!!
Less car parking for god knows how long,
Yes, there will be more spaces eventually, but wake up folks, is there any new spaces temporarily available???
Oh and dont bother getting a bus, they strike whenever they want. My suggestion is get a new pair of shoes and walk – it would probobaly be quicker as well!!!
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With reference to comment numbered 18 concerning possible compension due to Harcourts, why on earth would they be compensated? Have any contracts been signed? Please respond to this as I am intrigued.
Also, the commentator (Michael) points out that Harcourts are developers and do not directly employ anyone. If this is the case, why the call for accomodation for 500 people then?
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Who is going to occupy these proposed offices. Wait until the UK Inland Revenue and M15 starts snooping around the UK banks that are now almost fully owned by the UK governments. Citibank has been bailed out by the US government will the US IRS not to mention the CIA have access to their accounts? What finance industry will be left after the credit crunch/recession/depression?
Empty offices and huge bills for us taxpayers
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I am not a fan of the waterfront, but…if you ask 50 people what they wanted on the waterfront you would get 50 different answers, if we invite private companies to tender for it then they are going to build something that is profitable for them, you can’t blame them they are not the bad one here, so unless you want the states to borrow money (becasuse the rainy day fund may not be enough to cover it) then you have to accept its a commercial project. If we don’t want it then we should had of spoken out during the recent consultation period but as we are now all fed up with consultations they have worn us down…like it or not it is likely to happen, and if it doesn’t expect huge compensation claims as these firms have been working with our government to bring this forward!!
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and a direct response to Karen is:-
The states of Jersey will have entered into an agreement to give Harcourt time to come up with a plan for this site, they also had to pay the “Supremo” (Hopkins) appointed by Freddie so assuming that they have done or will do everything asked is it not right that they get re-imbursed plus some if the States say “thanks for working on that for the past 4 years but we have decided not to do it now!!
If you were self employed and did a job thatthe states had asked you to do would you not expect to get paid? I think you would
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Should a scheme devised in the good times be built now that we are in a recession? The new offices would presumably be for finance workers, but if Jersey cannot guarantee the security of off-shore deposits and as a result funds are moved to safer havens, where will the jobs be to fill the new offices?
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