Construction: Fears for 1,000 jobs
Monday 2nd February 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
CONSTRUCTION industry chiefs were in emergency talks with the Economic Development Minister this morning amid fears that a thousand jobs could be lost by the summer if an effective rescue package is not rolled out soon.
Senator Alan Maclean has called the meeting to try to ease widespread anxiety that businesses are facing very lean times as work dries up.
He said today that he wanted to hear first-hand about the state of every sector of the economy. And he explained that he would outline a number of ways that a stimulus package could help.
As well as bringing forward major social housing projects and maintenance contracts for States properties, he said that he was looking at helping businesses secure the funding they needed as securing credit became harder and harder.
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The Council of Ministers only seems vaguely aware of what is going on in the island.
Last week we had a silly speech from the Chief Minister on how we will weather the storm, this week we have a possible loss of a thousand jobs in the construction industry.
Quite a few of the CoM are businessmen, in fact one of their claims to deserve the votes of their fellow islanders was that they were businessmen, but they seem to be wildly out of touch with events in the Jersey business community.
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Jobs for locals first Jersey Born please,
I cant work in poland or any EEC Country so the Jersey Goverment should look after there own.
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Jersey needs a put locals first policy A.S.A.P.
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The States and main contractors have a big say in this if any work projects come up in jersey they should go out to local companys for prices (only) not the UK like they are doing at the monment, because the prices are better.? who knows more jersey locals will be layed off because small companys cannot complete with the uk prices, we all pay our taxs here they dont` so the states are losing out too. can`t they see that ?
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Bob – first of all the reason locals can’t work in the EU is because Jersey has elected to remain independant from Europe and enjoy the many benefits that this brings, offshore status included. In practice Jersey people can work in Europe and I know many young Jersey people who have.
As far as I’m concerned anyone who has contributed to the local economy, paid taxes and social security contributions is as good as local. But don’t worry, your government has in place a policy of local housing qualification to prevent equal rights until said compliance has been adhered to for 12 years. It took me 16 years of paying my landlords mortgage to be permitted to stand on equal footing with Jersey born people who throughout that time were free to work and purchase properties without restriction in my home country.
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at what figure does our goverment consider unemployment to be high?
1000? 2000? 3000+?
we have had low unemployment for 30 years or more.
i am sure there is someone out there who can answer this question
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So Bob would you like to kick me out of my job so that you can have it instead. Or would you like a choice of jobs. Maybe we could line up with a little plaque around our necks with job title, salary and holiday entitlement on it. You could then wonder along and take your pick. Perhaps you would like a trial, maybe a couple of days seeing how it suits?
Tell you what; when you choose my job maybe you can come along and buy my possessions at a knock down price because I am out of work and have to leave the island and don’t have enough money to transport all of my worldly goods. Tell you what why not rent the house cheaply as well. Lets face it you could probably have the lot for nothing.
Let’s take this a stage further perhaps I should be forced to wear the plaque permanently when out and about; then anyone who is Jersey Born could stop me in the street and decide if they fancied my job just in case you weren’t up to it or it was beneath you.
Whilst I am at it we can hang one around my son’s neck just in case he is taking your child’s place at a selective school, let’s face it why should he be able to take the place of a ‘Jersey Born’ child at a good school and the other kids could go home and tell their parents that there was a foreigner in a good job and did they want it?
Tell you what; I will get behind you in the queue at the hospital and sit at the back of the bus, maybe even have a separate water fountain and toilets. I really am beginning to understand what it must be like to be a non white immigrant in the UK; because I cant do anything about not being ‘Jersey Born’ but I came here in good faith years ago made my home and contributed to this island’s wealth through my taxes and social security payments.
The only reason I am here is because there was no one qualified to do my job. Just like the West Indians who came over to the UK on the Windrush you are quite happy to take my tax and my labour but me and thousands of others are treated like second class citizens.
Go on tell me what’s it like to have that title ‘Jersey Born’ must feel good, really good. Me I am just happy with the label hard working law abiding human who pays their taxes. Not so happy about people wanting to throw me out of work and destroy my family life because I was not born on the right rock.
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The building has to stop at some point or the island will become a concrete jungle. Hopefully the states will realize the time has come.
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I agree many of these workers are migrant workers, they should be encouraged to migrate in favour of the resident work force
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so John how are you going to encourage me to migrate? Make me live in sub standard housing with over inflated rents?
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To Ray Cist and Bob
The only reason you came to jersey is money and what maybe you thought is a better quality of life.Did you come here to study the flora and fauna,study the agile frog, help conserve our natural habitats,or did you apply for a job as a fisherman or do you get involved with volenteer work for Jersey Hospice or help with the Battle of Flowers.No i didn’t think so.As Jersey people are now an ethnic minority in their own island its no wonder we get fed up of economic migrants moaning about how tough it is for them.If you don’t like it,leave.And as for thinking that things are better for people with quallies,think again.I have full quallies and still live in a dingy flat with not enough room to swing a cat in and a landlord who increases the rent every year,yet i haven’t had a pay rise for 4 years.I have no other options,whereas you can always go back to where you came from where, you will have friends and family.Jersey people only have this ever shrinking rock to live on.Yes maybe i could live somewhere else if i was an accountant or doctor but i am not.The outlook for unqualified Jersey people is very grim.With astromical rents,job losses and no where to go,what hope is there for us.
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Boris,I lived on Jesey for 18years and came across a lot of “Bobs” dont let it bother you mate , small places breed small minds, AUSTRALIA ON THE OTHER HAND……………..
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the eu is to blame for this with the open door imigration policy brought in the uk,and even though we are not in eu,jersey once again has copied britain with little thought of the consequences.these immigrants can work anywhere in eu zone, and is the cause of unrest in many parts of britain causing mass unimployment.bosses are to blame in many cases as they can get cheaper labour.unless this practice is dealt with nothing will change
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Boris… I will gladly give you my job if Bob wants yours as the quicker I get of this rock the better. I agree with your sentiments 100% and am also sick of being told “there is a ferry in the morning” whilst they hold there hand out to fleece all your hard earned cash out of you with the over-inflated rents.
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bob Posted February 2, 2009 at 5:16 pm I cant work in poland or any EEC Country so the Jersey Goverment should look after there own.
I worked over 30 years in the EEC with Jersey passport, And I´m doing nicely, thanks, Big house, mortgage paid,We can afford to heat the whole house, we don´t have to live in the living room as some Jersey people have to beceuse they can´t afford the heating. Pension could be better, but OK, Retired at 55, so suckers get out now, as we predicted in the eighties, “The Bubble is Bursting”
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This is a blessing in disguise. We are actually in a positicion to stop building the Island into a concrete jungle.
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John – Your attitutde is the insular, blinkered one which makes people not want to be here. Yes you have said in so many words that there is a boat in the morning, but quite frankly if all non Jersey people left in the morning (if they could afford to get off), the Island would sink very rapidly without a trace. Many Jersey born youngsters are leaving for lives away and have no desire to come back. I do agree that at present employers should most definitely be making a point (and being shown to) of taking on local residents wherever possible, but this can’t be narrowed down to Jersey people alone. Sadly, because they can pay lower wages to Europeans they choose to do so and this is where the Jersey disease of greed rears its ugly head.
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I was born in Jersey and have lived and worked here all my life. My family has been in the Island since the 11th century. I am, as Bob and the other frighteningly-bigoted would say, a “pure-bred”.
I find it more than a little alarming that comments are being made against those who have come to our Island and worked so hard here over the years. They have paid taxes, learnt to speak our language and integrated well. All this in circumstances where, often, they are grossly underpaid and accomodated in expensive non-qualified housing. Sure, they do it because back in their home country there were no jobs, or they would be paid less, or their children would not be educated so well. But please do not ignore that it is the Jersey businesses and the Jersey people who have benefited from, frankly, the import of cheap labour.
The comments from people such as Bob are nothing new. Jersey people have in the past horrifically mistreated, used and looked down upon the French, then the Portuguese and now the Polish. It is a shameful trait of human nature; self-protectionism coupled with ignorance and stupidity.
As a “pure-bred”, the only changes I would like to see over the coming months is so-called “Jersey-born” people having some dignity and accepting that our Island is not perfect and that some of our employees are not up to scratch. In all sectors, market forces will prevail and commercial decisions will be made as to staff, and I am sure those decisions will be based upon performance in the job. Employers simply can’t afford to make decisions on any other basis in the current climate.
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John is quite right. The only reason people with no ties to Jersey choose to come to the island is money.
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John
I take it you were addressing your last to ‘Ray Cist and Boris’? Anyway you appear to class yourself as an ethnic minority (as per your post) which is fine however by definition that makes me a member of a different ethnic group to you and it appears that what you are suggesting is discriminating against me because of my race or ethnicity (I am sorry if this is not what you intend0. Whilst this does not appear to matter a jot over it, it does matter to the rest of the civilised work especially the UK and the EU. discriminating against me on the grounds of my race is often seen as an offence punishable by the courts. you are more than welcome to come and live in my country or origin without special permission, you can stay as long as you like and get a job buy a house etc. I do accept that this is a small island and needs population control however I was allowed in I have made my home and paid my share of taxes. My work supports many ‘Jersey Born’ people and I dont mind that at all inspite of the fact that some of appear to regard me as some form of ‘job taking lowlife’
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Amidst all the angst here I am just curious to know whether what John is actually saying is that, from now on, we should be offering jobs to locals (note: not just Jersey born) before we employ any new arrivals. If you are already on the bus you get a chance of a seat.
It is also true that having quallies does not mean that you don’t have to live in a small damp overpriced hovel. What it means is that you have more choice of small damp overpriced hovels than those who don’t have quallies.
My English other half was well disappointed when she discovered that truth!
Anyway, it might help the building industry if Planning managed to take less than 9 months to pass big building jobs. They are holding a lot of work up.
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This post will probably go on for ever, but I would like to take this opportunity (during an apparent lull in hostilities to thank all of those who have identified themselves as local to Jersey for their support of migrant workers and those who come to live and work here on a more permanent basis. I really mean that as it is reassuring to find that it is a minority on this post so far who have displayed anti-immigrant sentiments.
We only have to look back some 75 years to see the same sort of language being used in Europe and circumstances became far more serious as most of us are aware. It is economic hardship that gives rise to extremism and we have seen riots and strikes all over Europe in the last few weeks. We should be working together to find a solution to our problems not picking on those who are different by virtue of race or country of origin. Nationalism stinks as it is the refuge of the ignorant, the fascist and the racist, this island suffered enough along with the rest of Europe from people who initially expressed such innocuous sentiments as are found regularly on these pages where every issue comes down to the Jersey Born being down trodden and oppressed and losing out to immigrants to the island.
Go to the library and get out a history book and read about the rise of fascism in the UK and the rest of Europe and see how easily it starts. For those of you who are rightly worried about your jobs and livelihoods having been born and raised here, don’t fall into the trap of thinking that stripping Non Jersey Born of their rights and jobs is going to solve anything please, it is a big mistake. Let’s not repeat the mistakes of the last century. Your attitudes are one step down the road to disaster in a time when nearly everyone is suffering.
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Boris – what you don’t realise is that Jersey people are struggling too, all of them were not born with silver spoons in their mouths!
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Boris – Also, you would have felt quite angry if Jersey People had gone to your country and filled the job positions etc. and then continued to critizize your country whilst they creamed off the milk!
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Alexa – I take it then that you would happily work in the agriculture, hospitality etc. industries for the low pay and long hours that are expected of ‘non locals.
I have lived here for 58 years apart from 6 years spent in the UK recently. I returned to give Jersey one more try, and for personal reasons. Believe you me, if I could afford to move back to England again I would because this Island gets worse in every way. My Jersey born daughter left some years ago, and also gave it a try back here. 7 months was enough for her, and she says she will never come back apart from having to visit me else she would never step foot on the place. However I still agree that employers in this economic climate and times of low job opportunities should be looking to local residents in the first instance.
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I think it’s a shame that we keep getting all these negative comments about how Jersey people have mistreated immigrants or unqualified workers – there have been a great many over the years who were very well treated (e.g. my French relatives always speak well of their seasons in Jersey) and many Portuguese and Polish people also are getting on fine over here and it’s nice to have this mix of cultures – we’ve always thrived on it. The time has come for some sort of immigration control and most people would agree with this -not to throw anyone out but just to try to house everyone properly and share all the jobs out fairly as well which is simply not possible with an open door policy. There has to be a limit as to how many people this Island can hold and the jobs can be safeguarded for those who have shown their commitment to the Island. Let’s be honest about this – if we Jersey people go back far enough we are all mongrels of some kind and generally came from France or the UK – so what? I certainly don’t want all my non-Jersey born friends having to leave – we just have to be a lot more practical about this situation and look after those that are here now before we let any more in – what’s the problem with that?
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Ann
Jersey people can go to my country and take jobs and buy homes; and I have not critisised Jersey I have condemned those who blame non locals for all of their ills and or want to throw them out and take their jobs
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And yet again the xenophobes raise their ugly heads.
I think if you did a survey you would find that true beans are a minority on this island. By true bean I mean born in Jersey to 2 Jersey born parents.
You true beans should thank all us immigrants for coming over and spicing up your gene pool.
Bob, make sure you marry a Jersey born girl and that your children marry local too, otherwise you risk becoming a hypocrite as well as a racist.
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Nellie – you are quite right and I know many Scottish and English people who who here alongside the Portugese and they all get on very well together.
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Boris,
Your original ideas sound brilliant. On the other hand, how about an immigrant, off the boat yesterday, comes and takes your job today because they will do it for less money. Then we will see who will be complaining about who has the right to a place on the island more.
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If it’s not for the money then why on earth does anyone with no ties or connections to the island choose to come and live in Jersey? Has anyone ever given the reason why they choose to spend years living in sub standard accomodation (just like many Jersey born people )only to possibly have the chance of one day owning a 3 bed non- descript semi on some overcrowded estate? There are many other places in the world to live.
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Ann it is not the immigrants who do not get on together wherever they are from; it is the apparent minority (if judged from this post) of people from Jersey who seem to have a sort of master slave mentality. You can come over here as long as you do our bidding and don’t complain, if you don’t like it go and we will find some other mug to take your place.
Can’t people understand that a successful country (and that is what Jersey is no matter how small) is based on waves of immigration, new blood and ideas. My home country has accepted waves of immigration over 100s of years making it one of the richest and diverse countries in the world today (the inhabitants of its capital speak over 120 different languages).
Jersey is restricted by size but make no mistake if you want to fester in your own restricted gene pool then you won’t have the wit to tie your own shoe laces let alone run an international finance centre.
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Jub
it seems to me that people leap of the boat by the million in an uncontrolled horde not to take someone elses job but because there is no one on the island available to do it in the first place. I am not quite sure what your point is?
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Am i missing something?
All the complaints about Jersey Borns not being able to work in the EU and how all these Eu people turn up on the island one day and take these high paid jobs away from Jersey Borns the next day, surely not?
I thought it was the government of Jersey that opted to be seperate from the EU because it helped the tax offshore status…. So you want to be “independant” but still be part of the EU club?
And I thought to get a “well paid job” you had to be invited to the island as essentially employed (States Policy)? If not, then you had to be here 5 years doing basic jobs.
So, to make sure people off the boat can take high paid jobs get the States to change the policies. If you want to work and live in the EU (which you can anyway, many do). Then get teh States to ditch the offshore status and join the club.
Being in the club might help in many ways; Euro Grants for better infrastructure and other projects (help the builders and tourism), might even get a bridge!! who knows what might come Jerseys way, but you will have to lose the finance industry, or some of it.
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RE: The claim to be ‘Jersey born’.
Hmmmmm….. some truths, half truths and some prejudices here I feel. I have to say that I feel quite ashamed when fellow “islanders” choose to forget about lessons we learned during the occupation years and start slagging off people who have just as much right to be here as we do??
I always try to remember that Jersey is a small place and ” what goes around comes around”??
My old school motto sums this up rather nicely as…”United we stand, Divided we fall” Think on people….
Regards, Liam
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It is true that migration brings both benefits and problems. The benefits we are happy to accept but it seems not so the problems. In response to another article recently I expressed my dismay that jobs that schoolkids and students happily carry out in the mainland are deemed to be ‘beneath’ Jersey kids it seems, hence the greater need for migrant workers.
I am not from Jersey, I am here because my partner is Jersey (yes, born and bred). I do believe that every Government must protect, first and foremost, their electorate (whatever ethnicity or nationality they are) we vote them in to represent us after all! The sad fact (whether you agree with it or not) is that if Britain and Jersey do not protect local jobs they will lose out because other EU countries pay only lip service to EU legislation while taking the proverbial mick behind the EU’s back.
One example I can bring from the UK is that the police entrance exam was made easier to allow more people that were not fluent in English to pass it. Yet (and rightly so) I would not be allowed to join the police force in Italy because my Italian is not fluent. We need to use tolerance AND common sense, not JUST tolerance.
Given the current economic climate the EU is going to slowly but surely fall apart, it will (again whether you agree with it or not) become every country for itself and those that don’t protect their own electorate will be the ones that lose out. Our Governments have a responsibility first to our economy and must do whatever it takes to protect it.
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Recession always has a negative effect on the building industry. The building industry historically is always the first to suffer in times such as these. Maybe some of these workers thought that Jersey was immune?
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Many good points made on this thread, the key thing is that if the Jersey government wants to control immigration then do it at the point of entry. Don’t create a two tier system allowing anyone in and then complain when people emerge from the qualifying period having secured good jobs and housing.
Anyone who thinks that you could remove all non Jersey residents and retain the economy that we enjoy at present is living in La La land. Jersey has the population of a modest UK town and as such cannot possibly hold an indiginous population capable of carrying out the complex and specialised tasks within the finance industry that supports the island. I’m not knocking Jersey people, no town of similiar size anywhere in the world could sustain this economy without specialised outside help.
If we all left tomorrow you’d be left with farming and tourism and a gaping black hole where the finance industry used to be.
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Unfortunately there are cases of ‘incomers’ from different countries not being remotely tolerant of each other, even here in Jersey. And there are cases of wars between countries in Africa spilling onto the streets of London.
Also, I am all too aware that while many people who have arrived in Glasgow from abroad in my lifetime have made a point of integrating and have done so very successfully, others have set up their own little areas of Glasgow where I, and many like me who were born and raised in Glasgow, are left in no uncertain terms that we are not welcome because we are white! When you are physically threatened for walking along the street where you were born and raised you know that something has seriously gone wrong with immigration policies.
There is fault on both sides where immigration is concerned, no-one is perfect not the migrants nor the ‘born and bred’ people.
However, the main fault (as always) lies with Governments and their inability to properly manage ‘mass’ immigration.
I also wish to add that the day that it is considered ‘racist’ to expect a Government to protect their electorate before others is a very sad day indeed and one that I hope to never see.
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Squirrel, I don’t know anyone in Britain that wants to be in the EU never mind Jersey. Kind of a big decision for our Government to make and yet they never deemed it our decision. Which is odd since we are the ones suffering for that decision, NOT the Government themselves. And I’m not talking about immigration here I’m talking about the many ‘wondrous’ policies those idiotic bureaucrats with no actual life experience have come up with.
The EU is slowly but surely being seen for the disaster that it is, Britain toes the party line and gets … well I can’t use such a word on here but let’s just say that other countries in the EU still go ahead and do exactly what they want regardless. Britain really is left with no option but to also do what they want regardless of the EU, the sooner the Government realises that the better for all of us.
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To Boris
I am not discriminating against you on either race or ethnicity,if anything it is Jersey people who are being discrimated against with the vile stamp in their passport,which prohibits them working in the EU but allows people from the EU to work here and this by our own government.I wonder if the 5000+ people with this in their passport took it to the European Courts of Human Rights what the outcome would be.It is no wonder our own government has not implemented full human rights in the island.The point i was trying to make is that Jersey people are fed of people coming here and moaning about it.Not all beans are born with a silver spoon in their mouth as noted by Ann.I was also trying to point out that many,but by no means all the people,who come to live here don’t get involved with the local community.They are here for one reason to make money,spurred on by our own government who has put financial success well above anything else.Our Gross Domestic Product is one of the highest in the world yet our levels of happiness and social and moral well being are a lot lower,you just have to read the many on-line blogs or JEP to see the level of dissatisfaction in the Island.Personally i blame our government for its policies and making the island a place to make money and not a place to be enjoyed and celebrated.I don’t blame the Portugese and Polish for coming here and making as much money as possible and sending it home.If i had the luxury of that option i would probably do the same.
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Leah,
I too am english… and from a manufacturing background. Companies I worked for needed to be part of the EU. There are always two sides to the EU debate. It is good for some and bad for others. I think the UK government doesn’t make the best of it.
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Boris – a monkey from any country or island can tie it’s own shoe laces. I think it is disgraceful how immigrants feel they have somehow educated the local population of Jersey, many who are extremely intelligent people from the French gene pool!
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John
I am not moaning about jersey I love the place and think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, I have also been here long enough to know that most Jersey people were not born with a silver spoon in their mouths. However if you want to encourage me a migrant worker to migrate back home again and by definition give up my job; then I can and will moan about your attitude and if you are going to identify yourself as an ethnic minority and kick me out because I am not a member of that same little group then you are discriminating against me on the grounds of my race. I have to say I take umbridge at that to say the least. You cannot by right live and work in the EU because Jersey is not a member state, you have the right to live and work inthe UK and if you dfo so for 5 years you will then have the right of establishment in the rest of the EU. The fact that EU citizens can come here is a result of the fact that Jersey is in this case bound by the treaties made by the UK we do have the ability to change this by voting for full independance. You can wrap these attitudes up anyway you like but as one person put it you are not giving preference to your electorate (as I have the right to vote) you are falling back on the time worn device of wrapping up prejudice and discrimination in economic necessity.
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The number of UK nationals currently working within other EU countries is less than one-third of the number of EU nationals now working in the UK. Given that the UK’s population (and land mass) is considerably smaller than that of the rest of the EU combined it really is quite a staggering statistic.
And that is just EU workers in the UK (and only those that are ‘on the books’ anyway). I don’t know the stats for Africa, Asia or South America but I would be very interested to. Since the places that Brits often leave home to find work are actively advertising for Brits to go work there I don’t think anyone can factor that into any ‘anti-British’ argument.
I’m not against immigration at all but it needs to be properly managed and we would actually benefit from frank and open debate on the subject where people could share their honest opinions without fear of persecution or prosecution. However, what we have now is people so terrified of being wrongly accused of racism that they are afraid to even open their mouths, and so rather than prevent racism we are actually sending people into the open arms of the BNP and their like.
Common sense is long dead but must we continue to dance on her grave?
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Why should Jersey people get the jobs first, other people have to feed their families and have to pay rent, free for all, I say.
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Some of the supposedly aggrieved on here have made really nasty and insulting comments about the Jersey people. Funnily enough they’re comments that would be classed as racism by some people!
We cannot know what Jersey would have been without the high levels of immigration over the decades. It’s one of those infamous ‘IF’ questions. It would have been a different Jersey for sure but it’s a bit arrogant to suggest that your arrival here made it better as it is also arrogant for others to suggest that your arrival has made it worse. It’s just different.
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Geordie Ann,
I don’t really think most people are saying ‘Jersey people first for jobs’, just Jersey residents before further immigrants.
I think you would agree with that if an immigrant, fresh off the plane this morning, came in and took a job that you were applying for because he was willing to do it for the minimum wage. Or if your boss ‘let you go’ then took on a cheaper replacement. That is what is happening in England at the moment.
A free for all, as you put it, would be entirely wrong. The island would be flooded by people coming from places where unemployment is high and locals (of whatever nationality) would start to lose out.
I would personally prefer immigration to be capped until all the jobs were filled by people who were already here. After that, have controlled immigration where new immigrants can only come in if vacancies exist.
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bean around the bloc(48).
i aggree with you.
my parents came here in the 1950,s
there was talk of closing the doors then.
this goverment does not want a census.
and as for a propper imigration policy all of us can dream on.
possible headline? “today tailbacks from redhouses, stouens manor and grouville golf course”. more gridlock exprcted tommorow.
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Leah 39…..it seems that day has already come I’m afraid. Apparently it’s been called racist that British jobs should be for British workers, something the politicans promised (as their slogan) and again did not deliver…
Boris 32. Your home country’s capital speaks over 120 different languages? (must be London!!) Anyway, I’m sure your home country is not without its problems either and I’b bet my life there is mass discontent. But then your country must be a unique country where all migrants have successfully integrated into society, work hard to earn a living instead of sponging off the state, learned the native tongue (or at least enough to get by), abide by the local laws and have accepted their adoptive country’s traditions rather than imposing their own. I’m sure there are none that preach hate in the streets towards their hosts whilst happily picking up the generous handouts given by them.
Leah 47. thanks for standing up for the local. I agree that many immigrants have improved the well being of this island, but please also note that there have been many negatives too….rising crime, growing concrete jungle and social segregation (by that I mean small communities who have no intention of integrating with their hosts) just to name a few.
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I am Jersey born and bred. I love this island, I think i am lucky that I live in a relatively safe environment with beautiful beaches and stunning scenery. Sure there are things to moan about, the cost to get off the rock, limited places to go of a night out, and the cost of living, but it’s all relative.
I consider myself lucky that I have travelled extensively around the world, and as much as I love being away, I love coming back.
One of the things that excites me most about my island, is that it is becoming more and more multicultural. I love going to the supermarket and hearing 3 or 4 different languages. I think its great that my children have Thai, Indian Portuguese and Polish friends. It certainly has enhanced their knowledge and attitudes towards others. I have colleagues who are jewish, buddhist and Islamic, I went out the other night and met some Latvians, a girl from Iceland and a Russian couple. briliant!
However, I do recognise that there needs to be a policy to protect residents. And by residents I mean people who live here regardless as to where they are from. A cap needs to be implemented somewhere. It is wrong to bring over 500 construction workers when there are people who are looking for work and capable of doing this work already here. sure, if vacancies cannot be filled after being advertised, then look at importing people for the work. And this should be applied to other industries too.
One thing that does make me sad are the sweeping statements made by some in this forum. Whilst i appreciate that there are some Jersey people who would send everyone packing who aren’t 5th generation Jersey born, please don’t tar us all with the same brush. The majority of us beans live in the real world now.
It would be wrong of me to say that every Scot is a drunk, every Northerner a wife beater, a every liverpudlian a thief and every irish man thick. They are not. Just as not every Jerseyman has a narrow mind and views the world with tunnel vision.
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Moi
if you read these posts carefully including mine you will see that there is a small minority of writers who have expressed what I would call distasteful views and the vast majority of contributors from Jersey have been very supportive. I have identified this in my submissions and expressed my thanks. At no time have I been critical of Jersey, it has a difficult balancing act to perform as far as population control is concerned. I dont see the point in repeating my posts but stand by my comments and have not preached hate to anyone, I am just highly critical of some of the views expressed.
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Its great to read so many posts about how great Jersey is, The only problem here apears to be its not big enough to acomodate all of us that want to live here.
Still theres a boat tonight if I get too exited
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I too love Jersey, it’s the people in the States who irritate me on a daily basis. As for the Irish, there are quite a few intellectuals from there as well!
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Why do they also follow what the uk do? We’re independent, so they say, and not in the UK. Local people seem to be classed as second best. I think I’ll change my nationality I’ll have more rights and be looked after better
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Having read the article, maybe I’ve read it wrong. I thought the topic of discussion related to possible job losses in the construction idustry.
Surely the concern is for the knock on effect to other parts of the economy such a to building merchants and steel works who would in turn have to cut back,thus losing further jobs if building work ceased.
The island must look after all long term residents who have established themselves through hard work and commitment to the island and end this two tier system once and for all.
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Moi, I hear people regularly drunk in the street shouting their mouths off, and 99% of the time the language of choice is non-English European (don’t try and call it racism folks it’s a genuine observation). Maybe it is seasonal workers but I really wish the police would crack down on this.
I’ve already starting having to open the windows at night and it’s only February, can’t wait till summer when every night there is a drunk outside my window shouting loudly at 3am!
Someday I’m going to go abroad and do the same, see what happens. I’ll video the behaviour of visitors over here, take it with me as evidence. Should make for an interesting experience.
Britain, and Jersey it seems, are becoming a soft touch. Time to toughen up big style on ALL crime whether committed by ‘locals’ or ‘visitors’.
Big Bean, that was a great bit of text and I agree 100%.
As for British jobs for British people, were I back in Scotland I would be out on strike in support of the English workers. This is not foreigners that already live in England, this is people being shipped in when the skill is already within the country the work is being carried out. There were Polish and Italians taking part in that strike also.
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Boris
In yourpost number 52 you say that at no time have you been critical of Jersey,yet if you lookback at your post number 32 you say:-
‘Jersey is restricted by size but make no mistake if you want to fester in your own restricted gene pool then you won’t have the wit to tie your own shoe laces let alone run an international finance centre’
That is an extremely negative,derogatory and racist comment if i ever heard one.
Is it no wonder Jersey people are fed up with people with that type of ignorant,derogatory attitude.It is exactly that ‘holier than thou attitude’which makes Jersey peoples blood boil. Compare your comments with the much more decent comments posted by the likes of Leah Holmes.Much more sensible.
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Leah Holmes
Your so right about all the shouting there mouths off and 99% are not english so if you tell them politely to be quiet they don’t understand and just carry on. Why should we have to put up with it? every one intitled to peace in there own home and surroundings and fresh air and be allowed to open ones windows when you want to
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Well said John.You’ve hit the nail right on the head.
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My comment was an ‘if you want to take a certain course of action’. By this I mean that if you want to be so insular that everything is for Jersey Born and they are the only ones with any rights then you will be ‘festering in your own gene pool’ and if you do this as with other closed communities this inevitably leads to disaster (ever seen ‘Deliverance’?), whilst on the subject look at the state of our closed dairy herd, diminishing numbers and diminishing return have resulted in the importation of bull semen (there is a thought for another day). I don’t see this as insulting it is a comment on what will happen if you take a certain course of action. This hypothesis is actually based on fact and I am sorry if you find this prospect insulting, but Jersey cannot survive on its own anymore than any other country unless you want to go the same way as North Korea.
As for Leah’s comments they are always sensible and she puts her point of view across without being divisive and you may well be right.
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We certainly do need either visas or work permits – something along those lines, both to safeguard jobs for people who are already here and also to try to resolve the housing problem once and for all. It’s impossible to solve these problems with an open door policy and particularly now when things are going to get really tough.
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Has any one mentioned the construction job losses yet???? Looking at the issue that was raised exactly how many of these construction workers are local???? I imagine not a high percentage so if there is no work then they have a choice as to were they go for work, just like any other country. UK builders spent a large portion of the 80′s, 90′s in Germany, Spain etc as that was where the work was.
You lot need to get out more..
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hello Boris,
No body wants your job! The island has it’s housing policy not to discriminate against you
but to help control the population on this very little island.
Stop slagging off the locals!
Bet I could do your job but I don’t need to because some migrant has it!
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If people are prepared to come into the Island with respect (for the Island itself, the people on the Island and the Jersey laws) then I welcome them.
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Dear Crazy Horse this post just goes to show that no one actually reads anything; try reading my posts and you will see I am not slagging off locals in general just those who want to put me on a boat
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NO to Harcourt unless most jobs go to locally qualified people.
Are you listening, CM?
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Boris
I am sure no one really wants to take your job or put you on the boat,if they do they are a very small minority.As over half the population is non-local it is obvious that immigrants are more than welcome.I think the problem more lies with a lack of respect by some immigrants towards the locals.This seems more prevalent amongst the more affluent members of the business community,who seem to think they can come here and do as they please with little respect for the views of orther islanders,(and in some cases little respect for the laws)they just see Jersey as aplace to make money without trying to fit into the local community.And i believe that when the !!!! hits the fan,like it is now, these people will be the first to leave,leaving us to pick up the pieces.These are very difficult times for everybody and i sincerely hope that everybody gets through this recession,locals and immigrants alike,we all need each other.But just as Trixy65 says,a little more respect towards everything Jersey wouldn,t go amiss rather than just seeing us and our Island as an ends to make money only.
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crazy horse, as you you can see the housing policy(quallies rule) realy works well , look at our clear roads and abundant cheap affordable housing.
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Dear leah and Localliz…. re :”people shouting their mouths off in the early hours”???
)
May I give you a little historical perspective here… I grew up in David Place during the 1970′s and we had drunken tourists/immigrants/locals shouting their mouths off at ALL hours of the night and day, EVERY summer season, ( the season lasted 7 months back then) Alcohol was precisely half the UK price which is why the “Soleil Levant” pub made it into the “Guinness book of records” as the busiest (turnover per square ft.) pub in Great Britain.!!?? (1978 edition I believe)
Trust me on this… Jersey is a lot quieter nowadays, I know…., cos I was there!!
Regards
Liam
PS: Spirits were also sold in larger measures then which is what led to the “Glassing and running street battle season” every year!! (ah… happy days!)
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Ray Cist -
The housing qualifications are in place to help the island. As you stated in your message, the island receives many benefits from not being in the EU and therefore, the island is very attractive to outsiders. Can you imagine if there was no limits on housing qualifications? People wouldn’t be put off moving here so our population would rapidly grow out of control while people who have lived on the island for a long period of time may struggle to find a place they want and is ideal for them due to short term people buying properties but only keeping them for a short period of time or choosing to buy them and then leaving the island while continuing to rent it out. Although attracting people provides many benefits, more demand, more jobs which all leads to growth which is great; on an island which has an area of 45 square miles, there is only so much growth it can handle!!!
The qualification laws make sure that people who are dedicated to living here and who contribute to society are awarded with properties while any short term stayers who will not bring many benefits cannot buy up the market.
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To david brown— I didn’t say that the quallies rule worked! Ban all Cars and that might work!!
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That might be the case in certain areas, but not in areas that were once the preserve of businesses and hotels but now have businesses hotels and hundreds of flats, such areas have got worse!
I’ve seen a big increase just in the time I’ve been here. My partner was born and raised in Jersey and he has too. And it is almost always non-English Europeans and I suspect largely contract workers.
With locals I would maybe challenge them but with visitors, knowing that they may be from large cities themselves (as I am), I would feel less sure about whether or not they may be carrying weapons. There is less penalty for a visiting foreigner breaking the law and some are obviously all too aware of that.
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Oh, and it’s all year round now, not just Summer and Christmas!
If you lived with it day in day out you wouldn’t be patronising us with historical ‘perspective’ (history is usually rose-tinted or exaggerated after all).
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Leah… re your comments along the lines of: “Our Governments have a responsibility first to our economy and must do whatever it takes to protect it.”
This has become a deep rooted feeling and is a completely failed idea. Let’s stop thinking about ourselves first, and think about everybody else instead. Together.
The so called ‘crisis’ can go both ways, we can (continue to) look after number 1, or we can try and support one another and hold this world together. This may include sacrifices, that the gap between rich and poor gets smaller rather than bigger, that we live off what we need as opposed to what we want, that the work that is needed is shared around, etc. The personal and global benefits will be huge.
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Another thought as jobs are lost and people start to make difficult decisions. The jobs and services that are really needed will almost certainly remain. The rest might struggle, unless governments can manage to persuade the consumers to move back into top gear and continue living above what is sustainable.
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And it saddens me to hear so much racism in Jersey. Thoughts of returning (currently working in the EU to go back to earlier comments!) fade away a little. I worry about this being one of the more distasteful side-effects of an economic downturn. Protectionism, nationalism, racism, etc. Hope it will not go this way.
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crazy horse , i have no wish to get into a arguement here.
but cars do not drive themselves, however they are a reflection of the size of the population.
i would go by motorbike if i could.
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If you don´t like it there is always a boat out in the morning.
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First of all I would like to thank Darren for trying to improve our gene pool, I’m sure that with comments like that it must have come as a big shock that Durrell turned him down.
My main gripe with this debate is the acceptance of the idea that somehow it is Jersey people who are responsible for the often atrocious and overpriced accommodation in this island. Whilst that might have been true in the 60′s -70′s its no longer the case now. My job ensures that i spend roughly 2/3 of my time in the blocks of flats and lodging houses that grace St Helier. After a very quick rethink on the last few weeks work i can easily recall that out of the last 10 lodging houses i have visited 4 were owned by Scots, 1 Irish,1 Welsh and 4 by Portugese. So please dont tar all Jersey People with the brush that has been in many cases imported.
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Boris – why don’t you purchase your own boat and then you can come and go anytime you like!
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