Mayhem in the lanes
Monday 2nd March 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
From Shaun Crowther.
I BEGAN driving 25 years ago at the age of 17.
Question: Is parking any worse than 25 years ago? Personally I think not. Weren’t there several thousand more H-cars on our roads back then?
Question: Weren’t our narrow roads packed with Tantivy coaches? Yes. Can those who drove all those years ago remember what it was like?
If not, I’ll remind them — it was an absolute nightmare.
In those days, if you had managed to park where you liked, or managed to drive where you liked without having to be delayed by half a dozen coaches trying to pass each other, or you got stuck behind a tractor every time you managed to find a clear stretch of smooth tarmac, you could consider you journey relatively trouble-free.
Twenty-five years on, is it any better? Many may disagree, but I think that unless it’s Christmas, parking in town is no worse than in 1984.
But try driving anywhere north, west or east of Victoria Avenue, and we have the dreaded SUV — for those not sure, that’s sports utility vehicle. Yes, we all need one of those, or so it seems. Or do we all live on farms or tow horseboxes?
Try driving along the roads of Jersey and SUVs are everywhere, struggling to pass each other on most of our lanes, slamming on the brakes all the time as they meet each other, bringing the traffic to a standstill as one of them eventually has the nerve to try to reverse into a safe passing area, or, the worst crime, fails to keep to their side of the road.
So what if they are more economical than in years gone by?
So what if they are not too bad on the eco-friendly side of things? SUVs are just too big for our roads.
It can’t be a safety issue, not at 40 mph (or 30 in most of the Island if motorists stick to it).
It can’t be an ‘I’ve got a big family’ issue. We have a small hatchback to transport three kids and two adults and have room for a week’s shopping and the rest of the rubbish a young family brings with it, and there is still room for a pushchair.
Personally, though, I don’t drive my car too much.
Did I fail to mention that I’m a pedalisto, a cyclist, covering several thousand miles a year. Yes? Well, now perhaps you may understand my anti-SUV stance. The other night I was almost knocked off my bike as one SUV passed another while overtaking me. Did I get hit?
No, but I could have just about reached in to change the radio station!
Frightening, if not downright dangerous. Believe me, it’s not much better within the relative safety of the car.
So what are we to do? I think that during the Occupation the Germans banned cars of more than a certain engine size. I doubt that this will ever happen.
Impose higher petrol and parking charges in an island where higher charges don’t really bother anyone? No, we shall just have to carry on running the gauntlet. Guys, enjoy your cars, drive carefully, park considerately, and if you ever need to pass me while I’m out on my bike, just remember this. I too have a family who would like to see me get home safely.
Oh, and did I mention the oversized tractors which roam the country roads? Farm-hands, please remember your speed limits.
9 Ville Vautier,
Rue des Cosnets, St Ouen.
The Queen's Diamond Jubilee
JEP Jubilee Editions
Saturday 2 June: Guide to Celebrations
Wednesday 6 June: Souvenir of Events
View The Queen in Jersey supplement
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals/Departures
Harbours Arrivals/Departures
Bus Information/Timetables
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
Although I can see some of the writer’s point of view motorists are a necessary essential as they effectively subsidise society by paying more in taxes than it costs to provide or maintain the roads. We do not live in a Utopian society and before any ‘greenies’, ‘tree huggers’ or other ‘save the planet’ type individuals get on their soap boxes consider for a moment whether the cyclist, as a road user, is benefitting or damaging toward the environment? Before any of you state the obvious “well as cyclists don’t consume any fuel other than muscle power then they must benefit the environment” consider the argument that cyclists use roads which they contribute nothing toward, other than via general taxation, whereas motorists pays through the nose, via tax upon tax, for the privilege of using their chosen vehicle and the cyclist, with very few exceptions, causes traffic tailbacks with the inevitable consequence that considerably more fuel and other resources are wasted in the vehicles being held up compared to the small amount which might be being saved by the individual on the bike. Question – who is therefore the more acceptable – the over regulated, fuel consuming, tax and insurance paying motorist or the totally unregulated, uninsured, I can go go anywhere including up one way streets the wrong way; on pavements or pedestrian only precincts cyclist? If you think about it hard enough the answer might come as a surprise.
Report abuse
The average SUV is not as wide as a Ford Mondeo.
Report abuse
I always end up behind the ditherer who is driving the micro car, it is usually them that are driving much too slowly for the conditions and are causing tailbacks. I think this is because they realise they are bad drivers and have bought a small vehicle in the mistaken belief that they are easier to drive. It is the driver not the vehicle, no matter what the size. I have been driving heavy goods vehicles and been stuck behind micro-car drivers on many occasions.
Report abuse
I am not a tree hugger, a hippy or a greenie, however, cyclists pay no direct ‘road tax’ but consider this, if you took all the cycle and pedestrian-only paths on the Island, how much do they cost to maintain in comparison to a road? Most likely not even a quarter of the same budget required to maintain the same amount of road. How much damage through use does a cyclist cause to the roads compared to cars? Traffic tail backs, in an Island this small, is it really such a big deal if you’re going to add 15 seconds to your journey if you get stuck behind a cyclist? Are you really that uptight?
As a cyclist, a motorcyclist, and a motorists I have never had a problem with getting around a cyclist, but then I don’t drive a SUV, but if I did who cares? Insurance: what has your insurance costs got to do with any cyclist, or anybody else? Possibly there could be some reason to introduce it if enough people cycled and there were enough accidents, but driving a car presents a high risk of damage to any third party so it’s only far you pay for an insurance that is based on that risk, that will cover the costs.
Report abuse
So much generalisation. It’s ridiculous to assume that everyone 4×4 driver is the same or drivers of small cars are all the same. It’s all down to people’s ability to drive. The amount of drivers in Jersey who don’t stay on their own side of the road or know how to use their lights is crazy. And indicators . . . what are they for? Jersey needs to have a “safe driving” campaign.
Report abuse
I am sick and tired of cyclists thinking they own the road. They pay no tax or insurance but ride three abreast and think they have the right. I firmly believe they should be paying some form of insurance and stop bleeting on.
Report abuse
To respond to Ben’s comments, which are somewhat atypical of this type of thinking, roads are not only necessary for cars but also for everything else we use and dispose of today. As for insurance just how much more damage to persons or property has to be caused by cyclists before something is done about matters. In this regard I don’t believe the cyclist who knocked someone over on the pavement last year was ever brought to justice but if motorists are caught without insurance then the authorities throw the proverbial book at them. I’m all for equality but let start from a level playing field!
Report abuse
Again, sweeping statements and stereotyping.
Whilst out walking along St Aubins last summer my children were almost flattened by some guy on a bike who was cycling at God know’s what speed. We were not, by the way, on the cycle lane.
When I pointed out that he nearly injured my children, he subjected me to a string of abuse and threatened to punch my ****ing lights out.
If ALL 4×4 drivers are the things that the anti 4×4 brigade say we are because 1 or 2 can’t drive, then am I within my rights to say that ALL cyclists are foul mouthed vicious thugs?
Report abuse
Alan, before, roads were tracks that people used bikes on. Along came motor vehicles and so roads were built on these tracks. Where are cyclists suppost to cycle, only on a cycle track? Therefore should they only be allowed to cycle from Corbiere into town and back?
Big bean, I hear what you are saying, I cycle along that track and some idiots think it is meant for racing. On the other hand, you do get people rollerblading down the cycle lane, walking along it, letting their dogs walk on it or over to the grass leaving their lead stretched straight across the cycle track. Oh and don’t forget the train. But that is still absolutely no excuse for the behaviour you encountered.
If people started to show more consideration towards others, then perhaps people here might not be so angry. But it’s about me, me, me these days, what a sad situation we are in.
And you’re right about the (what has now become so boring) 4×4 issue, it is the people referred to in my above paragraph that cause the problem for others.
Report abuse
Exactly what large sums of tax are you paying extra? Motorists pay GST and vehicle registration on new cars; cyclist pay GST on new bikes. You may pay a lot more tax on petrol but that’s the price to pay for such a freedom that I myself also pay when I choose to excerise my freedom and drive my car or ride my motorbike. However, I use my bicycle when I can. As far as I am aware, your parish rates also go towards to the maintenance of the roads that are used for/by motorists, deliveries of goods and services. So whether you’re a motorists or not you contribute towards them. Is it not fair that motorists should have insurance considering the high level of risks towards third parties, if something should go wrong? Nowhere on this page did anyone mention 4x4s, only SUVs, which I know many are two-wheel drive. If we start legislating against SUVs and 4x4s, who and what will be next? Sports cars, motorcycles, boats, unicycles? Let’s not play into the hands of the government or those hell bent on returning us to the Stone Age by giving them permission to restrict our already eroding freedoms. As far as insurance goes, if you feel that strongly about it, then do something about it. But until the number of accidents increase to a similar level to that caused by motoring, I doubt this will happen. Those who cycle may bleat on about car drivers a lot as many drivers do not seem to consider nor care about the danger they are putting your life in and the oncoming traffic by overtaking to close or being impatient. Unfortunately, some of those who drive with such recklessness have taken to large SUVs and 4x4s, where due to the size the risk is greatly increased and more evident.
Report abuse
I agree with Kim, I get annoyed when cyclists are two abreast on the Airport Road even though theres a perfectly good cycle track there. And why can’t cyclists go up the Railway Walk to get home instead of clogging up St Aubin’s Road? It’s really annoying.
Report abuse
Exactly what laws are they breking by sharing the road? Many more slow moving vehicles clog up the road just as much. Is it that you are unable to share the road with other people?
If you ever cycled the cycle tracks in the winter you would now why.
Report abuse
Cyclists are the most selfish and dangerous of all road users. Cycling on the pavement, going through red lights, using one way streets the wrong way… they think nothing in the highway code applies to them, and it all comes with this nauseating holier-than-thou attitude becuase they think they are saving the planet. Get them off the roads entirely, and if there isn’t a cycle path where they want to go they can walk or catch the bus.
Report abuse
Is St Aubin’s Road serving the same addresses as the Railway Walk or does Templeton Peck know something that I dont?
Report abuse
Most SUV’s or 4×4 are simply taller giving the illusion of a large footprint, The average SUV is often not as wide as most family saloons, and is shorter than most estates. Not only that, but SUV diesels are more economical than large petrol engine family cars and many sports cars. It is not wonder many people plump for the greener option, a car for all seasons and uses; functional and practical and less of a width footprint, so less corner cutting than many family saloons.
In fact the corner cutting is not confined to family saloons, only yesterday a ford fiesta swung out a foot over the white line around sand street car park nearly taking my wing mirror off. Often small car drivers have an attitude that they can drive wherever they want in the road. Only a second later a 4×4 drove perfectly.
Report abuse
Two words, tolerance and consideration.
When you see someone on a bike on the road give them room, its part of the highway code (you might also want to read it) and they might not be one of the few that cycle in the precinct, through red lights etc. Same as, you might not be one of the vehicle drivers that overtakes cyclists whilst cars are coming in the opposite direction, drives through red lights (yes, shock horror drivers do it too) or takes up both sides of the road.
Report abuse
Peter, I think that if you thought your comment through you would realise that just as many motorists break the rules as cyclists, there are two sides to every story.
It is a shame that some people whatever they use as transport are unwilling to share or tolerate those who use a different method to that of their own.
As I said before, cyclist may complain more but I would imagine they have more to complain about, every time they come across a car where the driver has no regard for other peoples safety their life is at risk, where as a motorist my only add a handful of seconds to their journey time when they meet a cyclist.
Davy, I agree that some SUV’s and 4×4’s built in the last 2 years are only taller, however many are not. The issue is not of vehicle choice but that of the attitude/skill of the driver.
Report abuse
Kim (6) – Cyclists must be the least antisocial of all road users. No pollution, no noise and generally speaking proceeding at a pace which exceeds the slow crawl of modernised transport. As a car driver, I try and respect my fellow road users, whatever the mode of transport, especially vulnerable cyclists.
Shaun Crowther’s letter make some very pertinent points. Thirty five years ago the population doubled in summer and the roads became gridlocked with the venerable ‘H’ cars. Over the years I have lived and worked in three major EU countries and can assure you that driving standards in Jersey are by far the worst.
Report abuse
I got stuck behind 2 cyclists riding abreast for at least 10 minutes. How difficult is it for one of them to fall back and give me room to pass??
Report abuse
Trixy,
is there really a road in Jersey long enough to be stuck behind a cyclist for 10 whole minutes? I suspect you are exaggerating.
If that had been a slow moving tractor you would have had to wait until it was safe to pass – treat cyclists in the same way. Cyclists often ride 2 or 3 abreast for their own safety. When riding singly against the edge of the road motorists are more likely to try to overtake too close and force the cyclist off the road (either by squeezing through a gap too small or just by mis-judging the space available). If you’re likely to come across cyclists, how about leaving a few minutes earlier?
Report abuse
Fact too much traffic over here all on the road at the same time. Also the bigger the vehicle the harder it is for others to pass in narrow lanes. By bigger I mean either widder or longer. Jersey roads are small therefore it is logical to have a cars and other vehicles up to a certain size only. Yes it might be nice to have a 20 foot monster truck with 4 foot wheels and jacked up suspension but this type of vehicle is not the best for small roads. I believe it would be sensible for people over here to drive as small a car as possible not buy a massive car just because they can. We need to think of others and the environment more before it is too late.
Yes cyclists can be a nuisance but they take up very little of the road compared to some drivers of big 4×4 who appear unable or unwilling to reverse should they meet someone in a narrow lane. The bigger the car the more damage to the roads and environment etc. People need to be more aware of others on the road and learn to drive properly the number that drive on the wrong side , don’t idicate, pull out in front of you etc is alarming nowadays.
Report abuse
I dont see many cyclists on the road with one hand on the handlebar and the other with a phone to their ear, whereas i see plenty of drivers.
For instance one driving from the airport to mont felard unable to indicate to go up the hill because they only had one free hand.
Is that what is meant by being social versus being anti-social!
Report abuse
(1) Adrian….you’re comment is not even worth responding to.
(6) Kim….the only people I’ve seen who ride 3 abreast are kids going to/from school.
(13) Peter….rubbish. There are plenty of good cyclists out there and very selfish drivers.
At the end of the day it’s the people who are the problem and not the vehicle…..a bit of common sense please everyone instead of blaming a certain group of road users.
The problem vehicles are those which are clearly too wide for the roads (i.e. tractors and their very dangerous trailers). Maybe there should be a width restriction on the vehicles brought into the island like we have some height restrictions.
As for the inconsiderate law breakers….where are the traffic police and large fines to add to the coffers (and maybe help reduce road taxes and insurances)???
Report abuse
Adrian, you need to stop the anti SUV/4×4 stance. I was in agreement with you a few weeks ago on this but I have begun to realise that it is just a case of bad drivers regardless of vehicle.
Yes, at first and in my posts previously I have blamed them but I think it is because of their prominence on the road, the worst ones stick out in my mind.
However, on reflection I find them just the same as others, some good some bad.
The one thing I will stick to my guns on though, is that if you buy one to feel safe, then I dont believe you are a safe enough driver to be be behind the wheel of one.
And to make myself clear on that i dont mean all types of 4×4 i am just talking about the road hoggers that if you werent safe enough in a mini for example then you sure as hell arent safe to everyone else in your safe vehicle.
Report abuse
24. JP,
I am going to give you an example of how being in a 4×4 could be safer than an ordinary car.
About 5 years ago when I was in Wales, I was driving with my wife and 3 children when a drunk driver ploughed into me after sailing through a red light.
The driver was driving in speeds excess of 60 miles an hour and was killed outright.
The police report stated that had we not been in the type of car we were in, (a land rover), then we would most likely have all been killed or seriously injured as well. In short. driving a jeep that day saved my famlies life.
Perhaps that is why some people feel safer when in a more solid vehicle. We can be responsible and take care in how we drive, but how others drive is out of our control.
Report abuse
I should add to me last post (25) that although I was sorry the driver lost his life, it was his actions through being drunk that caused the accident and more than likely he would have been killed regardless to the type of car that he ploughed into. (before anyone acuses me of causing his death because I was driving a 4×4).
Thanks.
Report abuse
Kay (20). How is leaving a few minutes early going to prevent ending up behind a cyclist….since when did they start cycling to set times? You cannot guarantee what time you are going to come across a cyclist!
Moi(23). It’s not just school kids riding 3 abreast. There are plenty of adult cyclists who regularly travel along roads 3 abreast. These are the ones who regularly look behind them see the cars yet are still too selfish to ride single file in order to let the cars pass.
Cyclists have little, if any respect for drivers.
Yesterday I was driving down South Hill, I stopped at the yellow line, indicated to turn left down the hill and as I turned left, a cyclist came cycling along, at excessive speed from behind my car on the passengers side and decided he wanted to turn left at exactly the same time as me. If it wasn’t for the fact I had my wits about me, he could have easily ended up being “sandwiched” against the wall by my car. He had no road sense whatsoever and whilst following him down the hill 2 other cars narrowly missed him because he was weaving in and out of traffic because he had no patience to wait.
Then when we came to the red lights at Havre des Pas he decided he was obviously invincible and proceeded to “edge” his way through the lights and again, narrowly missed being hit that was coming out of one of the side roads.
Yeah, cyclists have sense….not.
Oh, and he wasn’t wearing a helmet.
Report abuse
Sorry Dave 25 that didnt come across how i meant it. I have no issue with the safety of the vehicles and believe they are safer for the driver and passenger.
Where I was coming from is there are people who buy them to feel safe that are not safe drivers themselves. So surely they should tackle the root of the problem not just go out and get something to feel safe in while they are a poor driver themselves.
I know of two people in my previous work who did just that that I have had the disspleasure of being a passenger for. Never again. And that is the argument I have to stick to my guns on.
And, although I dont know you I am glad to hear that your family survived the actions of an ignorant drunken driver.
Report abuse
I used to cycle to work but was fortunate enough to live near the cycle track and could cycle safely on it and up on to the railway walk and back home afterwards and not at breakneck speed like some idiots.
Now that getting to the track requires a lot of cycling on the road I cannot get the courage back to use it having been nearly sandwiched along a wall myself. Going along a straight road, in single file (on my own), keeping tight to the wall whilst a driver came by and basically squeezed me right against the wall. Had I not stopped when i noticed what was going on I would have been injured. Guess what, the impatient so and so just couldnt wait 2 seconds for the car coming the other way to go past!
I will give another example whilst i am on a rant. Many years ago whilst driving along with my window open (there is a point to mentioning that), a driver coming in the opposite direction once again couldnt wait even though there was no one behind me and decided to overtake. They came right into my side of the road hitting my wing mirror which came off and flew into the open window and hit me square in the face. Fortunately it did no damage and i retained my good looks but there could have been severe consequence of their untimely move. You do the math.
You see my point is there are two sides to every coin.
Report abuse
I am a cyclist and I am fed up of cars overtaking me to follow the car in front of me.
Then they arrive at the lights and wait.
They accelerate hard to brake hard to get there no quicker.
You can only go as fast as the car in front of me.
I often pass these cars only 2 minutes later as they are stuck in traffic.
Often cyclists are children.
Impatient drivers are causing deaths all over this planet. Relax take your time, you burn less petrol less rubber less brake discs and you get there in the same time.
What will be next horses, prams, pedestrians crossing, taxi drivers dropping people off.
These roads are for all modes of transport and need to be shared with patience and care.
I am also a big 100k guy and when walking down king street in a hurry maybe I should push all the little guys out the way who walk slowly.
Its care and consideration for fellow road users we need here not people in fast cars overtaking the slow ones just because they can.
Oh and I have never known of a cyclist killing a car driver because of careless cycling.
Cars need to give way to cyclists.
Oh yeah and when I am in motor boat I want to run over swimmers who are so slow.
Report abuse
A cyclist went through a red light at high speed and ran into my niece’s (then only 1-year old) buggy! Thankfully she was unharmed, unfortunately so was he!
A cyclist also broke the highway code by coming all the way along a road and then going round a bend staying entirely hidden by a lorry such that when I correctly went to turn right after the lorry had passed I had to break suddenly when as the cyclist (literally) came out of nowhere. Thankfully as an attentive and careful driver I allow for other people’s stupidity and was able to stop safely. He gesitculated at me but wasn’t prepared to have me yell at him to read his Highway Code (oh, of course, you don’t need a licence or insurance to cycle on the roads!)
Cycling on public paths and roadways needs to be regulated for the safety of all. Including damage done to parked cars by cyclists!
I am not anti-cycling, I know some cyclists that totally obey the rules of the road and are sensible intelligent human beings, unfortunately a lot are not like that.
There is equal blame on both sides.
Report abuse
JP (28) you are totally correct that the issue is just bad driving (and in some cases cycling that disobeys the rules of the road). If you need a bigger car to make you feel safer then you really should get some advanced lessons and ensure that you foresee potential dangers/risks and have the ability to act accordingly and in a timely manner.
I occasionally drive an SUV while over here (the only vehicle available to me) but I neither accelerate fast, slam on brakes (except due to other idiots, usually in roller-skate cars, entirely on my side of the road), hog the road (SUVs fit fine in the one lane) and I always leave plenty of room for horses and bicycles etc, preferably moving entirely into the other lane so they are not caused any unnecessary distress.
Please judge drivers by their abilities (or lack thereof) not by what they drive. A bad driver is a bad driver regardless of the car.
Report abuse
Peter 13..I agree I am fed up with being nearly flattened in town by thoughtless cyclists who use the pavements as cycle tracks. When driving I never cease to be amazed by the fact that they think the Highway code does not apply to them (eg the inner road cutoff to Victoria Avenue at Bel Royal)
As usual it is the thoughtless minority who cause problems for the rest of us
Report abuse
33. Whilst on the subject of bel royal lets not forget the motorists who coming from the valley like to do a u turn there to get onto the avenue of a morning. Or the ones that use peoples drive ways just passed the no right. Hmmm, yep its only cyclists that dont obey the rules!
Report abuse
Isn’t it strange that you sit a cycling proficiency ‘course’ while at Primary School and don’t have to sit any kind of test to check you know the Highway Code?
Everybody using the roads to progess their journey (as opposed to pedestrians simply crossing it) should have to prove that they know the Highway Code very well. And that would include making the theory aspect of the driving test harder too.
Report abuse
There are good/bad drivers and good/bad cyclists. Funny reading the letter, as I was thinking on similar lines recently. You don’t get held up by tractors anymore, because they go faster then the cars! However, following the larger 4×4′s (and to keep everyone happy the SUV’s which are the same width, road friendly and fuel efficient as all regular cars) can be amusing at times, as they hit the brake pedal everytime a car is coming the other way, even if there is enough room to get a tour bus past.
Anyway, being serious, I’m a driver/pedestrian/cyclist, and when ‘being the cyclist’ (because it is quicker then queuing), and riding east on Victoria Avenue near Bel Royal on the way to town in the mornings, the most dangerous bit is when signalling very clearly to turn right to cross lanes near the burger bar to enable me to join the bike track (and get off the road). Each morning about 4 or 5 cars think my clearly outstretched right arm is an invitation to put on a quick spurt and try and squeeze past at all costs even when I’m already halfway over (within my right of way). It’s so dangerous!!!! Hopefully someone reading this knows they are guilty of this offence and will pause and hold back next time…. After all, you are still going to be in the same car order when you reach the queuing traffic at Millbrook….
Report abuse
A bad cyclist is likely to end up dead and therefore suffer the consequences of their own actions, however a bad driver, especially of a large vehicle, is likely to kill others with their inconsiderate actions, and is unlikely to face proper justice, as they will probably be given a fine and loose their licence, rarely does a jail sentence get handed out for their recklessness. I believe vehicular deaths should be treated as manslaughter in cases of bad driving. This I believe would lead to a cutting down of poor driving habits. Also the police should be on the look out for road incidents that endanger others and prosecute accordingly. Many it appears cannot be trusted to drive properly without being closely monitored.
Report abuse
Although this thread is dissapearing i want to point out what i saw on my way home today at 4.20pm.
Come from first tower a cyclist, young on bmx pulls out into traffic then waits. His mate on his scooter then catches up and pushes him from behind to give him ridiculous speed down to the roundabout at west park. Unbelieveble!
To follow on from this, as i drive past the park to the notorious joining of roads one car driver comes from the grand hotel side and flies over to my side just missing me. He then carries on indicating to turn left up westmount hill and so another driver pulls out only to nearly avoid a crash when the said indicating driver decides he had no intention of turning left. That same driver then accelerates at a ridiculous speed to go up old st johns road after winding down his wind and giving hand gestures to the bloke who thought he was turning left earlier, due to indicators.
Yep six of one and half a dozen of the other methinks!
Report abuse