Health agreement with UK to end next month
Tuesday 3rd March 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
ISLANDERS who fall ill or have accidents in the UK will soon have to pay for their treatment, Health announced today following confirmation that the UK is scrapping the reciprocal health agreement from 1 April.
Health Minister Jim Perchard was notified of the decision by Dawn Primarolo, the UK’s Minister of State for the Department of Health on Friday. Not only does the ruling open the possibility that Islanders will be left with huge bills for medical care if they do not have adequate travel insurance, it also leaves Health significantly out of pocket.
The JEP has learned that the agreement was extremely profitable for Jersey and will leave Health with a £3.9-million hole in its budget. Health’s finance director, Russell Pearson, has already warned that that could mean Jersey patients suffer.
‘Health and Social Services cannot afford to take a reduction of £3.9 million,’ he said. ‘We would have to prioritise and reduce services to manage that. The Council of Ministers are aware of that impact.’
As of 1 April, Islanders visiting the UK will only be eligible for free treatment in accident and emergency departments.
Pictured: The General Hospital
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God, do these people think we are made of money
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Shouldn’t we have a statement from the Health Minister, Senator Jim Perchard, on this matter?
This is going to affect the majority of islanders and some quite severely.
A lot of States’ members are going to be asking questions when the House is next sitting.
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1) I assume we will be charging for UK residents who need treatment in Jersey?
2) Other less derving causes will need to be cut back, swimmning pools subsidies and States employees final salary pension schemes spring to mind without any real effort. Health services should not be touched.
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Another blow for our health service. Things are falling apart and there does not seem to be any leadership… what is going on?
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Why did the states not enter into negotiation and pay the necessary increase in costs to prevent this.
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Reasonable as much of Jersey’s intensive care appears to be performed in the UK, but it throws up an interesting paradox.
What if the person falling ill has been a UK tax payer, but has only recently moved to Jersey?
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The UK is cutting us off in several ways. A few years ago they started to charge us a lot more for Open University courses.
Perhaps they are trying to force us to go completely independent. Maybe that could have some advantages.
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Check Travel Insurance Cover – Through experience i do beleive you need to stay in ‘paid for’ accomodation in UK for a minimum amount of nights to be covered by Travel Insurance ? So i presume visiting family in UK and staying with them, you won’t possibly be covered ?
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Fair Enough. Rules is rules. The UK gets nothing but bother and grief from Offshore Plc anyway so it’s only fair that we should pay our way. Not sure free defence, VAT loopholes, the right to work, live or participate in UK social security benefits will be tolerated either… Batten down the hatches chaps!
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So how are the states going to deal with this? This is a serious issue and should be dealt with immediatley…..priority is the correct word
Come Health Minister get your thinking cap and come up with answer and how you are going to protect your islanders, there is more than enough money in the pot…..
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“the agreement was extremely profitable for Jersey” so you can’t blame the UK for scrapping it.
What effect will this have on our tourisim industry, which relies mainly on elderly UK visitors?
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So what does this mean for students studying in the UK?
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Well I hope this also means any English people living in Jersey will have to start paying for their health cover as well?
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I do get the feeling that this is another subtle attempt from the United Kingdom to push Jersey into independence.
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It’s time the UK completely closed those floodgates to immigrants and started looking after their own. England is overwhelmed with millions of legal and illegal immigrants. The illegals have been abusing the system there for decades. If the UK government cracked down and deported as many violators as possible, this would eventually free up more money to maintain a reciprocal health agreement, as well as provide future resources for the UK Health coffers. However, I won’t hold my breath.
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Shane comment 12 – they do, what do you think social security payment is for?
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I have kidney failure and am awaiting a transplant. Will I have to pay for the operation and subsequent out patient healthcare for 6 months after the op?
I will already have to pay for the flight for the op and follow up 24 flights for post-op checks as the state doesn’t pay for anyone earning above the average wage.
If so, does that mean that anyone facing a surgical procedure that our Hospital refers to the UK will also have to pay? This is a lot of people.
Ministers, please clarify as this is worrying and the story in the JEP is not clear on this point.
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David, I think you are right – either that or us joining the EU, which, in my opinion, would be better, the way this Island is sinking. They will have to think again on this option. I think if the finance goes, the pack of cards will all fall one by one. What about us pensioners who can’t get medical insurance due to ongoing illnesses. My husband couldn’t get insured for anywhere outside of the UK for the last four years due to heart disease and the UK was the only place we could go to.
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I think this is the UK putting the squeeze on Jersey in whatever way they can. I expect there will be more. The UK is loosing tax revenue by the minute and will have to cut back in all areas.
Meanwhile the States are going to build more council houses.
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Surely the UK would not charge someone like myself who has lived in England for 22 years. I always paid the full Stamp + Income Tax and now receive a UK pension for the years I was employed. There must be some exceptions otherwise it’s most unfair even though I’m Jersey by birth.
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All of the Channel Islands are affected by this.
I think the only way forward in dealing with all such matters with the UK government is to show a united front; i.e. negotiate as the CI, not separate Bailiwicks.
What is the old saying about ‘divide and rule’?
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If you have annual travel cover, check with your insurers as soon as possible. For you to be covered, many insurers will have to change their definitions. The policy definition of Jersey is often included under UK, and UK is defined as your home country, and medical emergency cover is only covered outside of your home country.
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Jersey has been loyal to the Crown for over 800 years. It is quite astonishing that the Crown will no longer take care of its loyal subjects in British hospitals. Why do we even have a British representative of the Crown based in Jersey? We are obviously not British citizens.
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So we have to take out insurance now when we go the UK even just for a weekend. The insurance companies are going to be loving this. Now watch the cost for insurance go through the roof as people will be to scared to travel without it.
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Phil, please enlighten us as to:
a) just how many ‘millions’ of immigrants, legal and illegal, are overwhelming the UK right now?
b) how ‘they’ have been ‘abusing the system’ over the decades?
c) how much money would be ‘freed up for the UK Health coffers’ by deporting these people?
d) you would replace immigrants working in vital sectors such as the NHS?
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The Lieutenant-Governor is the representative of the Crown in the Island. Islanders are British with the right of residence in the UK but we are not covered by somethings and health has now joined the list.
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This has the appearance of a crass piece of negotiation by Health. We are left 4 weeks in which to sort out our own insurance for any travel to the mainland. But it will not be easy. I’ve checked my own travel insurance, with Nationwide, and it specifically does not cover for treatment in UK hospitals. Does anyone know of any locally available travel insurance that does? Will it cover, for example, our sports teams competing in England.
Also, are we not supposed to be a democracy? Where has the debate been on this matter or are these important budgetary allocation decisions being made by Mr Pollard? The Island as a whole may have been able to get a better deal than a group of individuals hastily scrabbling around to arrange cover with probably bemused insurance companies.
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We have a ‘free’ travel insurance policy offered by RBSI/Natwest which forms part of our banking arrangements, and I believe that this may EXCLUDE the UK.
Presumably the local Insurance brokers will be arranging for a suitable policy to be available to Jersey residents.
I have no issue with having to pay for such services. A&E should make charges to deter people abusing the services on offer.
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I agree with you, John from Guernsey. United we stand devided we fall, so the saying goes. We should all stick together on a lot of issues in these islands. The uk seems to wan’t to detach itself from us but what about all the Channel Islanders in the army? Shouldn’t that count for something, risking their lives for the Crown.
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As per Quentin Smythe 9, ref to Channel Islands history years 1940-45 to see how good the UK are at defencing an area in a crisis. Looking after ones own comes to mind.
Also no chance of me living in the UK nothing worth going there for that’s why everyone wants to come to Jersey. As per UK social security it is a joke!
Phil 14: Illegal immigrants can abuse systems wherever they are, even here. Maybe we have no illegal immigrants as anyone can come here without being deported unlike other countries?
Keith 16: I believe any treatments needed in the UK are unaffected it is only for locals visiting the UK should they require hospitalisation whilst over there e.g breaking a leg. A&E work is covered but not operations which could easily reach £10,000 in costs. I would advise people to get insurance or if they can avoid it don’t bother going on holiday there anymore, go somewhere better.
bella 17: finance will go then the Channel Islands will have to fend for themselves unless they join the EU. I believe for all the working-class people it would be better to be in EU due to better protection. However the rich (many of them from the UK) and big business (many of them from the UK) like things just as they are. Therefore it doesn’t matter that locals have a stamp in their passport as it is part of the sacrifice for being a finance centre.
John from Guernsey 20: Yes, the Channel Islands should stick together, more strength in numbers. I believe the UK isn’t really interested in the CI hence their stance on things like health care. I believe the UK could and should shut down finance centres but due to big business they are left alone as much as possible. Big money is made from finance centres and the UK is big in finance.
Wintour 21: Another good reason not to bother with the UK. Why waste your money on a place that isn’t interested and isn’t up to much?
Ann 22: Jersey and Guernsey may have been loyal but has the UK ever been loyal to them? How can the UK have anything to do with the Channel Islands as our links are purely through the Crown? Maybe it is about time the Channel Islands thought about their so called links to the mainland, as they appear not to exist, except for the fact that some of the people who have moved here are from the UK?
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The shortfall, or ‘loss’ to the UK is £4,000,000 per year. We have about 50,000 people working in Jersey. That’s employed, not pensioners or children. For £1.50 each per week, the working population could make up £3.9 million by a small increase in their social security contributions. Maybe even increase the upper contribution limit for higher earners. Put it to an emergency public referendum, a real one this time, not some rubbish about moving to French time. If the people agree, job done.
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Too right Pip (25). As our Lords and masters are only too quick to point out, Jersey is an independent jurisdiction. We do things our own way and that includes heath care. The UK tax payer has no responsibility for Jersey other than Defence and foreign affairs.
What is more the Jersey government is only too quick to turn matters to their advantage, when it suits them. In large part the finance and fulfilment industries are built on tax avoidance. We tease the big bears of Whitehall at our peril; maybe they have just snaped back for some of the tax revenue they have lost to Jersey.
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Spring-Heeled Jack, good to see some common sense and not a knee-jerk reaction ignoring the fact that UK family and friends’ of people here were working hard to help fund this agreement!
Islander, I know it feels that way, but it isn’t the case.
If the UK had its finger on the button they would have done this ages ago as they have been losing out for years. Remember this isn’t the UK Government, I’m just an average individual who works hard and for years my taxes helped towards non-UK citizens taking OU courses and getting free health care. My friend is Jersey and he never considered that to be fair. How could anyone suggest it was? Would you like your taxes to be paying for the health care of people in Gibraltar, Isle of Man… or the UK even? You expect the taxes you pay to go towards the upkeep of your country one way or another and sometimes towards human rights issues abroad.
The States have stepped in on the OU front and that is the only way that should ever have been funded. They need to do the same on healthcare, somehow! As it is my OU fees are no longer covered by the UK (since I’m no longer resident there) but I haven’t been in Jersey long enough to get States help either!
I know there are people in terrible situations that the scrapping of this agreement won’t help, but can we please put the blame where it’s actually due? The blame is with Jersey NOT the UK. It was every working UK individual whose salary (in part) went to funding Jersey people’s NHS treatment (and OU provision). The UK Government was letting down its electorate quite seriously.
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If we require medical treatment in Jersey this is covered by our Health contributions – if we require treatment in the UK we are saving our health service money – why should we have to pay for a service which we have already paid for in Jersey? This should be funded by the Health service and equally, all UK residents should have to pay for medical care when they require it over here – with the UK government funding it. What’s the problem?
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Wouldn’t it be better if the Channel Islands (and Isle of Man) became full members of the UK like the other constituent countries, instead of being semi-detached statelets which attract rich people trying to avoid tax? That way, residents would get all the advantages (and disadvantages) of being British, such as free NHS treatment in England. We might get a Tesco or two, too!
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There’s no guarantee that the UK would want to take on the huge future cost in social security, etc., of the Channel islands by incorporating them in the UK. They and Jersey have no industry now other than finance and once that’s gone,we might as well get back to knitting jumpers.Forget taxing the rich till the pips squeak, they’ll be long gone.The removal of the health agreement is just the start of sanctions to dismantle our independence.Time to support our government and put differences aside.This is no time for discord.Gordon Brown has stated today to Congress that he wants to outlaw offshore tax havens. That is a clear stark message at a time when the island is already experiencing cuts in essential services, despite the finance industry, which succesive UK governments, whatever their politics, have actively encouraged over many years, as ultimately beneficial to the UK balance of payments.
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stuff england do we have an agreement with france? much better service by odd accounts
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Adrian- you may not wish to live in the UK and consider there is nothing worth going there for but I assure you that everyone here is NOT wanting to move to Jersey.
This particular subject seems to have identified the fact that yet again it will be the middle earner who fights to keep his/her head above water who will be hit the hardest.Same old story in Jersey I’m afraid.Good comments from Leah and Spring Heeled Jack as usual.
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Adrian (30, first paragraph)
On the 9th May 1945 Jersey was liberated from nazi opression by the armed forces of the United Kingdom.
They had been fighting a common enemy for 5 years, many many thousands died so you would be able to voice your opinion.
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Maybe those who have made this arrangement could come on here and explain what all this means? There is too much confusion and why only a month’s notice for the general public? I am sure the authorities would have known about this for a lot longer. Maybe Mr. Perchard could explain this to a bewildered public? My confidence in those responsible for health ebbs by the minute. What will be the next thing to go wrong?
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Why can’t the states give us a private insurance for medical care to cover us when we are in the Uk? take it from the rainy day fund that must have grown with all the interest over the years its been there. What about all the people who also gets a small part of the english pension they already get are they covered. I know that you can have your eyes tested free in the uk cause I do and thats london I get first class service there free
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It is not so much the breaking of this Agreement rather than the way in which it was carried out. An Agreement is surely a two way thing, as a Disagreement should also be.
Long, long overdue is a serious look at creating an independant Channel Islands.
Lets spend money on a meaningful study of this instead of other frivolous ventures.
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Re OU courses, sorry to change the subject but i wrote to Phil Ozouf about this and he has not replied from a month ago so can anyone enlighten me, is there a states subsidy for adult OU courses as i cant afford £1000 per module.
Thanks
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Why not re-introduce perscription charges to cover the shortfall.
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Most people, well sensible ones, pay for holiday insurance when travelling abroad and also when travelling in the UK. The government advises you to do so. This insurance covers most eventualities and will cover the costs of medical, repratriation etc. Most of us also make sure that we have a comprehensive breakdown insurance for our car. This also covers repratriation to your home if the matter is serious enough. What is the problem?
Sadly if this change in the rules had been advised to the public at large properly it would of saved a lot of people worrying. It is simple how it works, if you live and work in the UK, pay UK tax and NI contributions you will be covered, I also believe that all students will be treated for free also. I also believe that patients requiring specialist medical treatment that is not available on Jersey will also not have to pay. So what is the fuss? How many people is it actually going affect? Very few. How many take their annual holiday in the UK? In the same way, how many people these days take their annual holiday in Jersey and those from the UK? If they do, I am sure they make sure that they have adequate medical insurance. Sad, isn’t it? Most people have no problem insuring their car but insuring their body is a different matter entirely.
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Jerseys hitting the fan quicker than you can say ticketyboo.The uk has had enough, America is closing in and all it takes is a couple of big English banks to collapse,then life enriching Jersey will be anything but.Tourisim dosent exist and how the shops in the high street are surviving with the presence of online & better value is anyones guess.I will save £3500 by stepping across the water for a little Daihatsu than buying one locally.All this “greed” has to come at a price Jersey is drowning!!!!
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hannah, what do you do if you can’t get medical insurance? My husband can’t. He got refused by 4 different companies 4 years ago as he had a coronary heart attack 4 or 5 years previously. So the only place we could go to was uk. Even though he was born in UK, he now won’t be covered as he has lived here more than the five years. They state that you need if your uk born.will we now be marooned on this island,or take a chance?would the states bail us out? i doubt it.i can,t even get a medical card for france even though i have lived here since the forties i happened to be born in dublin but they only cover uk.
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JP, there is something on the gov.je website I believe, it is under Education & Training and then select Further & Higher Education (you’ll see it mentions the OU in the blurb).
Good luck with the financing and whatever course you choose! I’ve not been in Jersey long enough so I’m stuck paying the full whack.
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Oooops, JP, should have said… go to Student Finance then Distance Learning and download the appropriate form.
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PJG 39. As you are well aware the D-Day landings occured on 6th June 1944. The rest of Europe was liberated before the Channel Islands. Why leave your own people under foreign occupation for longer than necessary?
As you say UK forces came into the Channel Islands on the 9th May 1945 nearly one year later, only after the German Forces agreed to surrender. How much longer would they have waited for this to happen, another year or two?
Yes millions died and we have all benefited from this, however freedom should have been sort as soon as possible, not as it appears an after thought. Many Channel Islanders fought in the UK forces so they did their bit for King and country, as they did in the First World War when they didn’t need to. So as far as I am concerned there is no point in claiming the Channel Islands get free defence because when they needed it they didn’t get it. Why do you think things would be any different this time around? This is why I believe the TA is a total waste of money, as the Channel Islands are undefendable from an agressor.
P.S. Also remember all forces were withdrawn back to the mainland by the UK, in the Channel Islands hour of need, and that UK nationals were allowed back to the UK. The indigenous population was however left to fend for themselves as best they could. This is what happened.
I am just asking are the UK really interested in these pieces of rock off of the French coast? Also if they had of been French would the Free French have ignored their own islands for nearly one year after the invasion of Europe? I think not. This is why I feel the Channel Islands would be better off being in the EU and not dependent on the UK for anything.
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Bella, You really ought to check this out. If your husband was born in the UK and paid NI contributions in the UK and has not changed his citizenship he should be entitled to free medical care in the UK. I know this because my sister has lived in the states for many years, when she visits the UK if she has a medical problem she is still classed as a UK citizen. She does get a state pension from her contributions she paid whilst she lived here. You really ought to check this out as you may find he is still entitled to medical care in the UK, the same with yourself – Ireland is part of the EC – I may be wrong but I am sure that this ruling applies to those who were not born in the UK ie England Scotland NI and Wales. If he is eligble for a UK pension he should still be eligible for Health as well. UK pensioners who have decided to live in any of the EC countries still do benefit from most of the inceases etc., in pension. So you really must write to the relevant departments in the UK to verify if you are covered.
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Ladies and Gentlemen of Jersey, I have read some of the comments on here but I have to say that you are cherry picking the parts of u.k dependancy you want and dont want. For instance its long been known that any u.k resident is denied residential status in the island unless they are either incredibly famous or able to provide economic benefit. (nothing wrong with the latter) and when tourists to the island visit (as they used to ) they were always respecfully reminded that during their stay health treatment was not free and were advised to purchase travel insurance. This by virtue should have been reciprocal with any islander travelling to the mainland at that time surely? thats the meaning of the word reciprocal is’nt it ? so why all the fuss now ??
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hannah thanks for your interest this is still very sketchy as the EP printed UK will only cover uk residents for the first 5 years after they have left my husband has lived here for 40 years,we will try to find out about this in the coming weeks as we are due to go to uk next month.as for me getting covered in france the social security have refused me twice as i have an irish passport and they told me they only have an agreement to cover uk insurance to france.my husband asked them if they could put my name on his card and they refused,and would only do so if i got nationalised to a british subject(which i would never do)my son has worked in SS for 25 years and he could,nt get anything done either,the only thing was he found that they were thinking of bringing irish people living here into the agreement about a year ago but so far this has,nt happened
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I’m sure Bob Hope can see the merit in the Jersey first, local people for local jobs at local prices arguement but he just can’t see he benfits of being narow minded like us locals. I’m born and bred and no matter what the UK does I would sooner die for my homeland than concede an inch of the green green grass of Jersey. I love my island!!!!
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And, do not break traffic laws in the UK:
Foreign drivers will have to pay on-the-spot fines of up to £900 for flouting traffic laws under new legislation to be introduced next month.
If they do not have enough cash or a working credit card their vehicles will be clamped until they pay — and they will face an additional £80 release fee.
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Bella (47), much as it’s a rough situation there are companies that specifically give out medical travel insurance.
I had to get it to go to New York for a week’s holiday and while it isn’t cheap there simply isn’t much other option. Charities to do with heart problems should be able to suggest some names of medical travel insurance cover.
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Adrian
And why did the German forces “agree” to surrender. Because the allies were fighting the axis powers worldwide. It was their overall strategy that that gave the Nazis a offer they could not refuse
As you say the islands are indefensible from an aggressor so what would you have advocated in 7th June 1944, the uk pour troops up the slip at west park to be cannon fodder, while the Nazis used the local population as a shield. Just so you could think you are getting your bucks worth in defence. This then leading to lack of fighting manpower and the world becoming Nazi controlled.
Jersey did have it rough during the occupation the indigenous channel islanders endured an occupation that kept vital German troops from the front lines thereby doing their bit for the war effort, to a lesser degree perhaps than the French resistance, but still worthwhile. I know that the majority of those I have spoken to would have preferred the occupation to have carried on another year had it been necessary to ensure that freedom would be long lasting and not just a short selfish respite.I don’t think the UK government charged for this Liberation. OH yes they honoured the reicsmark as well to alleviate local suffering after the liberation.
that’s “free defence” is it not ?
That is why I believe phrases such as “how good the UK are at defencing an area in a crisis. Looking after ones own comes to mind ” are insulting to all who endured those times, Jersey and UK alike.
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PJG Sorry to disagree with you on this but the facts are the Channel Islands are undefendable and the last time they needed UK help them they were left undefended. As for the occupation going on any longer, as the British had blockaded the islands, they would have starved to death within another year. Is this a humanitarian thing to do? Everyone I have spoken to would have prefered an earlier end to the occupation, remember they had as much right as anyone else to be freed as soon as possible. Best of all they would have prefered no occupation.
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leah we are waiting for forms to come from uk,this last two weeks. regarding my hubby,s pension as he dos,nt officially retire till july and is due a small pension,born in scotland and worked there for 7 or 8 years before moving to london then coming here and social security are trying to work it out.they told him to apply 4 months before retirement as it takes so long for uk to sort this out.personally i think the states should step in and bring in some sort of protection for residents that have lived and worked here most of their lives and cannot get insured through ill health, even if we had to pay.this was just sprung on us very quickly and could have dire consequences.
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Well good luck Bella, I hope you and your husband find help on this one. I agree about Governments stepping in to help those that cannot get insured due to ill health, especially since many of the conditions companies refuse to insure can cost less over the years than the regular ‘little’ complaints that other people have. People will chronic conditions learn to handle their illnesses themselves as best as possible, some help wouldn’t go amiss!
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Adrian
I agree to disagree.
yours is a very insular view that fails to understand that Jersey is not the centre of the world but part of it.
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PJG you are quite correct the Channel Islands are not the centre of the world. However if you think leaving your own people to the enemy is being insular so be it. I make the comment “own people” as allegedly the Channel Islands are part of Britain?
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For years Jersey has treated UK residents in JSY as outsiders ie with residential quals now the tables are turning and so you can now see what it feels like to be on the other side of the coin
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Typical Jersey – wants to be part of the UK when it suits but not when it doesn’t. How does it feel to be a second class citizen? Why should the UK pay for your health care do you pay tax there? They got to look out for their own just like Jersey looks after their own first!
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Well, what can you expect? 180 billion pounds worth of banking in Jersey! 3.9 million towards health? No chance. Those running Jersey are greedy, stupid and selfish. What is wrong with you people??
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