States in shambles
Wednesday 11th March 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
THE States resembled a school playground yesterday as foul language and personal insults flew across the Chamber.
After days of personal animosities being vented in e-mails between States Members, the tensions erupted publicly in a bitter question time. Senator Stuart Syvret stopped proceedings in mid-flow to complain to the Deputy Bailiff, Michael Birt, that the Health Minister was whispering abusive language in his ear. He alleged that Senator Jim Perchard had told him to ‘go and top himself’.
A few moments later, Housing Minister Terry Le Main was accused of fraud by Deputy Shona Pitman.
Mr Birt, who was chairing the sitting, called on the St Helier Deputy to retract her allegations, but she repeatedly refused. Her attack was echoed by her husband, Jersey Democratic Alliance chairman Deputy Trevor Pitman, who questioned Senator Le Main’s integrity and competence.
The unpleasant exchanges began during question time as Environment Minister Freddie Cohen was answering a question. Senator Syvret stood up and said: ‘On a point of order, I am sorry to interrupt the minister. But the minister to my right, Senator Perchard, is saying in my ear “you are full of f*****g s**t, why don’t you go and top yourself, you bastard”.’
Senator Perchard immediately responded by saying: ‘I absolutely refute that. I am just fed up with this man making up allegations against people. I just wish he would not.’
Pictured: Senators Jim Perchard and Stuart Syvret
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God help Jersey.Just when we need to show a good image to the rest of the world and deal with the issues at hand.
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LOL!! What a joke!
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What a bunch of A*******s! Is it any wonder the island is falling to pieces with this shower!
Sooner they get this lot out the better.
They couldnt organise a raffle let alone run the island! When will people see sense!!!!
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the way they carry on what chance have we got?mind you they diden,t shaft jersey internationally like last time
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If there were ever an instance where States Members, of whatever leaning, have demonstrated the need of urgent reform, this is it!
We need fewer members, possibly with party discipline.
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Ditto Pat!
I have no sympathy for either of them – like two adolescent idiots trying to score points – zip it and get on with running Jersey!
Pity the States don’t have a culpability procedure…. or do they?
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Did Perchard say that or did Syvret simply make it up on the spot?
Only last week, Perchard had a letter in the JEP, obviously directed at Syvret and his blog. Now it is alleged that he made remarks telling him to commit suicide. If true, it is comletely unacceptable for a minister with a responsibility for health.
If on the other hand Syvret has taken it upon himself to interrupt the States sitting to completely invent this incident, he should stand down.
There are microphones in the Chamber and dozens of potential witnesses who might have seen any such whispering occuring. It is very important to find out the truth here because we can do without bare faced liars in the States (and one of them must be just that), particularly if it turns out that one of them is the Health Minister and that he has such a fundamentaly poor attitude towards the mentally ill.
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I should be shocked… yet it doesn’t suprise me at all… to be honest it’s quite funny! Pat I agree though… not the best image of Jersey though is it?!
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pathetic ego maniacs with little or no care for any one else but themselves.
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If Jim Perchard actually said that then I think he should be forced to leave the states.
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Is it any wonder that apathy towards the states just keeps growing? Such a disgraceful display demonstrates everything that is wrong with our government at the moment, personnel vendettas and squabbels taking precedance over the very real issues facing the islands.
Possibly the sadest thing about this story is that I am not surprised to read about it. It always seems to be a suspiscously similar set of names involved in such behaviour.
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A lot of this has been festering under the surface for some time.
The creation of Ministerial government that concentrates power into the hands of a few with very little in the way of creating an effective opposition or even scrutinising its decisions always was a recipe for trouble.
Add in the fact that Jersey is facing the most difficult times for decades and it is not surprising that the political temperature is rising.
Jersey politics in the latter decades of the 20th century were mild because the committee system forced consensus type politics and there was plenty of money for everything and to spare.
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You are all a bunch of over paid idiots.
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Senator Syvret is an absolute foul mouthed disgrace he is achieving absolutely nothing in the states. for the good of Jersey he should fall on his sword before he does any more damage.
as for the “grab the tax payers money and run” Pitmans its hardly suprising they act the way they do when the father of the house is leading by the above example.
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So I see the same culprits bringing shame to Jersey and putting our government into disrepute once again. Why do the JDA and Stuart Syvret seriously believe this behaviour is justified? If I were a voter of any of them to say I was embarrassed by this would be an understatement.
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The only people who show any integrity towards the people of this island are the ones who are constantly ridiculed by the likes of Jim Perchard and the rest of the prehistoric minded self gratifying asses.
Shona, Trevor and Stuart remain with the very few that actually consider the needs of all walks of life without discrimination.
As for all those making out they are reputable etc etc, we can see right through you all. Oh yes, always on time,never off ill,think too highly of themselves.
Probably the same kind of people who tried to ridicule Dep Wimberley also, we aren’t fooled by your act anymore the lot of you are false, small minded and ignorant.
Hurrah for Stuart Syvret, a real voice for us people, and someone who is not scared to be honest and tell the truth and represent us properly!!!
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What a horrible shabby little place Jersey is. The sooner Barack closes it down the better
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The States has always been a complete shambles, absolutely nothing has changed there!
At least Mr Syvret and Co are trying to stop the ludicrous behaviour that has been allowed to continue, almost like some kind of superior club at the taxpayers’ expense!
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On reflection we need a two party chamber, if only to keep squabbling individuals well apart. Madness, shear madness, what will the world think of Jersey.
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At least at Westminster they don’t use actual foul language. I’m glad I’m over here!
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And this is supposed to be good government? Pot calling Kettle back here as far as the JDA are concerned.
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What, with a Senator turning up late for an important debate, papers in a shambles,and then mumbling through their address and now this! There is an economic crisis, a financial meltdown and this is the leadership we can look to is it? Petty point scoring from petty politicians. Undignified, embarrassing… Yes this IS Jersey.
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Good ol’ Jersey Boys, boy! we’re proud of you chaps fighting our corner. Makes me proud to know that clever, bright, articulate States members are alive and well making sure that here in Jersey, we will not be forgotten or overlooked. This sends a signal to Mr Brown not to mess with our boys. The world has got a fight on it’s hands if it expects us Jerseymen to give up without a fight. I salute you all! Jersey forever!
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Senator Perchard may be fairly new to the states chamber, but he is typical of the traditional establishment politicians who actually NEVER saw themselves as political, but were our rulers and knew far better than us the direction the island should take.
Any attempt at dissent, questions or non-compliance was met with derision or finding that life as you knew it ceased to be. You could lose your job, house and be a complete pariah on the island.
Now, we are starting to have a voice in the states to represent ordinary people and not just the wealthy and powerful. Clearly Senator Perchard represents a different section of people from people like Senator Syvret. Senator Perchard just isn’t doing it very well!
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Mark’s perspective, very true there are considerably too many states members, a system which saw many more referendums and where people could actually have a say in what happens would be good.
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It just gets more and more far fetched each day. Time for the whole lot of them to be fired and we start again, preferably with people who actually haved fworked for a living and know what the issues are.
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This just disgusts me. they have no concern for the people of jersey just what they can get out of it for themselves!
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All good material for the next JEP caption competition!
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we will never know but i believe Stuart Syvret here.
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That’s nothing unusual, the states sitting resembles a school playground 365 days a year.
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Crikey – I thought we in Guernsey had a problem. Lack of money, zero 10 problems and threats being made to the Chief Minister’s personal safety, not to mention big brother (Gordon Brown) getting very very cheap applause as he mentions tax havens to a partisan US Senate, but your Elected Officials take the biscuit!
How long do you have before the next election? Ours I know is closer so we can remove our idiots earlier. If the purported comments are true, then the elected officials should be removed from office.
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A Message For The Members.
“If you plant rice, rice will grow,
if you plant hatred, hatred will grow”.
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Absolutely pathetic. What a disgrace. *hangs his head in shame*
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Come back Norman Le Brocq all is forgiven !!!!!
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Personally, I feel sorry for Her Majesty, she must be feeling really proud !!!
Charge the louts with Treason Maam.
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Sack the lot of them and emloy the monkeys at the zoo instead. They would do a far better job!
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Ben Value, if Jersey is that bad you should try living here on the mainland with even more useless idiots trying to run local and national governments. I would swop my position of living here in the north east of england for the opportunity to live in Jersey anytime.
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Jersey is a joke and the people running the island are clowns. What makes matters worse is there is nothing we (the public) can do about it, but watch the clowns have their way with undermining everything Jersey once stood for.
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If the comments attributed to Mr Perchard are true he should resign immediately.
They are disgraceful and immensely insensitive to anyone who has a mental illness or has experienced a loved one or indeed anyone who has taken their own life. After his ranting letter printed on the JEP pages talking about the mentally disturbed he appears to have a problem with this type of illness.
This is our Health Minister for goodness sake, and is clearly not fit to hold this role.
I am appalled.
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There is a sub-text to this incident – which has not been entirely accurately conveyed by the JEP reports.
I will write in detail about this episode on my blog, maybe later tonight, if I have time, because there is insufficient space here.
For the time-being, just consider this, by standing and repeating what Senator Perchard said to me, not once, but three times, I was giving the public some small insight into just what the real culture of the establishment is – underneath all the expensive suits and fake politeness.
Stuart
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Now I remember why I left Jersey 5 1/2 years ago. States members looking after the island good?????
Take them out into the Royal Square, bend them over and give them a good slap on the a–e Send them all home with no tea, and ground all of them for a month, with no pocket money. They all behave worse than children.
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Comment 20, Matt
Come on Matt, that’s a bit unfair on the JDA.
They are trying on behalf of the common people, we have never had a voice before, aside Mr Syvret.
Perhaps, it is that you are well off and don’t want change. The vast majority can’t wait for change.
If JDA members are behaving like children, then they have a greater chance of understanding the minds of our top politicians.
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Paul (40) – I remember too why I left Jersey 8 years ago. 2 years ago I decided to give it one last chance, and how I wish I had not bothered.
It has just got worse and worse and now sadly I can’t afford to leave again.
Stay where you are, you can’t be any worse off. A beautiful place, steeped in cover-up and corruption.
How sad.
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Whatever next, what with this and the so called people friendly Shona and co who think its ok to bend the rules and make them up as they go what hope has Jersey got ? the answer NONE
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Senator Perchard is doing a much better job than his predessor. And the JDA attacking others with whats pending for two of their members really makes people wonder what kind of people are running this Island.
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why do the JEP reporters have to bring terms like “The states resembled a school playground” it is very poor reporting i went to a tough school but we never used foul language or personal insults to that degree, to me the start of the story is an insult to our school children the reporters should not bring schools anywhere in a report like they have done in this case, as for the rest of the story it is much better reading than the global economic crisis.
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Its always been a shambles. It has just taken
Stuart Syvret a long time on his own, to get the politians to show their true colours. TAUFU!
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And we thought we had it bad here in Guernsey!
I thought it could not get any worse for you lot, after Frank Walker and his pieces to camera about the child abuse enquiry.
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I think we have hit a record here for the most comments in an evening to a story.
If the States don’t appreciate how annoyed the public are about such behaviour then we have no hope.
I expect the JEP to interview the Chief Minister and ask what he intends to do to sort out the obvious ill tempered disintegration of the States in our time of need of level heads.
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I would remind you that it is some of these people who have permitted Jersey to be used as a tax haven
At considerable cost to the world at large
And with devastating effect upon the developing countries of the world
Are you surprised that so many states in the world think Jersey should be on any new blacklist of tax havens?
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well said bean (7)
the truth must be found and kick out the lair problem is 90% of the members would then have to leave they have ALL lied at some point or another
ie there is no resession
ie i will delay 20% means 20%
thats the 2 top boys gone allready
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Self centered and self interested are the principal qualities that you need to get elected in Jersey and this is a direct consequence of the lack of political party framework and subsequent discipline that this normally creates.
At a time when politicians ought to be working urgently to reduce States Spending immediately and take steps to protect all the citizens they represent, their public demonstration today justifies all the earlier claims that we exist within and are governed by a banana republic.
All concerned should apologise to the people they represent, or resign. Sadly this dignified and professional course of action of course won’t happen as the word discipline doesn’t appear within the list of qualities required to take public office and represent the people as a politician in Jersey
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well done Stuart
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If you two can’t behave we will have to separate you.
Joking aside if the comment is true then Perchard should be made to publicly apologise and invited to resign. Of course the establishment has no interest in publishing the truth of the matter if the comment is true. Instead they will simply keep quite to protect one of their boys! No if the allegation is false they will seek to persecute their arch enemy as much as they can, as they have done on numerous occasions before. The lack of response says it all really.
About time the rest of the States started challenging Syvret on the facts rather than on personality issues. Its what they were elected for an and are paid to do. I suspect Syvret would relish the debate and I would to.
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It’s a disgrace, Stuart Syvret and the Pitmans do not deserve seats in the house if this is how they behave. At least the public can see what they really stand for.
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Re: Post 49. Richard Murphy. What on earth has tax havens got to do with this thread? Nobody is interested Richard, you ridicule people that post on your blog so why should we take anymore notice of your ramblings?
Back to topic. I do not think being rude in the States is the Government any sensible minded Jersey person wants. The JDA and Stuart Syvret should be punished for this.
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I think that the headline used is an insult to school children………….
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Stuart Syvret (40), you sow the seeds of public disinterest in you response “because there is insufficient space here”. Right or wrong, the public will shun your blog because it is too long winded.
Ian Evens (32) says it all in just 13 words!
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Dave, people like Syvret are just trying to expose the truth. It is Perchard who does not deserve a seat in the house if that is what he said.
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Chris (no 54) I agree- let Senator Syvret tell all he knows and I would also be pleased to know some facts rather than the feeling that there is an awful lot being covered up here.I lived in Jersey from birth up until 3 years ago and I know there has always been a network of cover ups to protect various people in certain places.Amazing how some people have overlooked the fact that it was Senator Perchard who has allegedly used the foul language here yet they are criticising Syvret (surprise surprise)If Perchard did say what has been alleged he should obviously not be Health Minister with immediate effect.
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you’re naive to think politics can be conducted with grace and without mud slinging. think it’s a disgrace, then you are offended by the wrong things. get offended by policy. unparliamentary language is a misnomer for me.
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there’s only one way to sort this out….
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Whens the revolution and whens the removal of these people going to happen?
Reduce the size of the states would be a good start. We only have a small island to run do we need so many jesters running it?
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LOL…. I love it..
Nice to see Jersey states acting in a correct and proper manner like just like Guernsey’s.
speak your mind and the devil be damed..
lol
lol
lol
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Sara, I am confused by your post.
Why should Stuart Syvret be punished for this if all he was doing was bringing to attention the appalling behaviour and disgraceful language of Perchard?
If what Syvret says is true then he is actually a victim of bullying. We tell our children to stand up to bully’s and to tell someone if it is happening to them. That is what Syvret says he was doing.
The important thing is to get the truth out. I suspect, given the establishments deep dislike of Syvret, that if he had made it up – and Perchard did not say those things – they would be falling over themselves in trying to prove Syvret to be a liar and then bringing some sort of proposition to have him booted out of the States.
Their silence is deafening which leads me to believe that Syvret is probably telling the truth here.
I look forward to reading your blog entry Senator – no matter how ‘long winded’ it may be.
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Well, 3 explanations here.
1) Stuart Syvret is a liar and Perchard never said this
2) Perchard says this and Stuart Syvret is a spolied child running to authority when it suits him. After all, he’s not above dishing out personal insults himself.
3) The whole thing was a hallucination
My money is on 2 – he gives it out but he can’t take it.
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Dave 55) Sara 56) I think you have misread this story somewhat. The foul language and obnoxious remarks were not made by Stuart Syvret but TO him by Jim Perchard (he no longer warrants the title Senator in my book).
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Bean up all night, how do we know he is telling the truth? And when I look at the events of the past year I have even more reason to doubt him.
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1 We need a two party system of government to introduce proper checks and balances
2 We need a second chamber of elected members to act as a double check on the first house – the bi-cameral system used by mature democracies the world over.
3 We clearly need proper rules and stringent punishments governing behaviour in the actual debating chamber
In short we need to grow up. If we carry on being an only-just-post-feudal state governed by a cosy elite of self-interested, self-sustaining, community-sacrificing bunch of Oligarchs that would make Russia look like a beacon of democracy then we will be taken over and frankly we deserve to be. This is a £200/400, 000,000,000 economy in a world rather short on readies. The sharks are circling and we are proving just how unfit for purpose our system of governance is. Get rid, implement Clothier in full except remove the Constables to a second chamber and reduce the Deputies by one third. Do it soon or have it done to you and shame, shame, shame on you all.
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Party politics is emerging in Jersey.
From an article about the House of Commons
” What are the red lines on the carpet in front of each set of benches for?
The red lines in front of the two sets of benches are two-sword lengths apart; a Member is traditionally not allowed to cross the line during debates. The lines are there to prevent either side attacking the other during a debate. Of course, MPs are not likely to
attack each other these days.”
Time to get out the red paint in the Jersey assembly methinks.
I listened to about 2 hours of the debate including the Perchard/Syvret incident which the acting “Speaker” handled very well. In my view the standard of debate was quite good, although there was obvious frustration on the opposition side that they were not getting the information needed to carry out their role. If the allegations against Senator Perchard are correct he should resign or be sacked from his ministerial post; Senator Syvret’s behaviour seems an exemplary way on how to deal with bullying and it would be scandalous if he were not supported.
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Banana republic comes to mind. At least they have not started physically hitting each other yet. That kind of thing seems limited to eastern european parliaments and Taiwan for some reason!
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I think Perchard and Syvret must be feeling ashamed of themselves. The art of putting someone down in the UK parliament for example, is through the use of cleverly crafted words and phrases not through swearing. Its an art form where you get your point across, criticise, defend yourself but do it without resorting to swearing. Openly swearing shows you have lost the debate or the opposition have clearly gotten to you. By swearing you show your frustration openly and have lost.
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Sara, how do you know he is not telling the truth?
If you read my post properly you will note that I used the word ‘if’ on a couple of occasions. You on the other hand state quite clearly that Syvret should be punished – for Perchards use of bad language!
What you are saying is that Syvret deliberately and out of the blue, stood up, interrupted the house and completely made this up and that Jim Perchard had not whispered anything at all to him. I do find this difficult to believe.
Jim Perchard on the other hand can hardly be expected to admit that he did say it.
I am hoping that there is a recording or a member of our government who can confirm whether Perchard was talking to Syvret immediatly prior to him complaining, or, even better, heard what was said.
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Boys will be boys,If I had my way I would bang their heads to gether….
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I feel ashamed to to be called a Jerseyman, What a load of Wossers.
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“Senator Syvret’s behaviour seems an exemplary way on how to deal with bullying and it would be scandalous if he were not supported.”
I would have thought setting up a website that was personally offensive about colleagues and civil servants and frequently insulting anyone who disagreed with you as being “establishment” or part of a “cover-up” is hardly “exemplary”.
The fact of the matter is that nobody has been able to work with Senator Syvret. He clearly thinks everyone who disagrees with him is an idiot and/or corrupt, and makes no bones about letting this be known. But if you take that approach, it’s hard to present yourself as the victim of bullying when people decide that they don’t actually like you very much.
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Unbelievable!
Syvret is happy to verbally abuse (without substance) just about everyone he doesn’t like in his internet ramblings and then goes crying to an authority he doesn’t respect when (allegedly) someone verbally abuses him.
If Syvret wants to use the internet to give his opinion of people then he should be happy for everyone else to do the same. For what it’s worth in my opinion Syvret is a sad, lonely, bitter little man who is rabidly jealous of anyone in the Island who is remotely successful. He is trying to bring the Island down with him with his made up stories of murders at Haut de la Garenne whilst all the time trying to deflect attention from the fact that he was in charge of Social Services at a time when bad things were happening but did nothing about it.
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Why are we paying these people £40,000 a year to act like school children?
The two Pittman’s can resign right now for making allagations against a man who was aquitted at trial for a crime he did not commit.
This makes me sick!
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Bean up all night, we are taking Stuart Syvret’s word against Jimmy Perchard’s. From the history of Stuart’s ramblings I side with Jimmy.
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This whole shameful fiasco must be sorted out. If derogatory comments were made, then appropriate action should be taken. If the claims are proved unfounded the accuser should be taken to task.
There must be witnesses available.
Yet again it highlights the bitter infighting that is rife. No wonder the Island is in such a mess. How can coherent and important decisions be made when half the elected house are at each others throats?
It is utterly pathetic and gives Jersey an extremely bad reputation. If we cant regulate our politicians, how can the Finance sector be effectively regulated? Quite a few of the above posts are from non-resident people.
Lets hope Paxman doesn’t get to hear about this one!
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pay peanuts, you get monkeys. bottom line each and everyone of these fools have been voted in by somebody. there is none so blind as those that can’t see.
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What a mess the island of Jersey is in. It is a disgrace if an elected official is proved to have verrbally abused a fellow elected official in such a manner and then deny he said it. If that is proved, Perchard should resign and be charged for abusive and threatening behaviour. As for the allegation of fraud towards Terry Le Main by Deputy Shona Pitman and backed up by her hubby, Jersey Democratic Alliance chairman Deputy Trevor Pitman, who also questioned Senator Le Main’s integrity and competence, let a court of law decide. I feel for both Jersey and Guernsey which were once wonderful islands to live in. We have dire futures to look forwards too with idiots like Perchard, Trott and co running the asylum with the suits in support and ruining both islands. Perhaps both Jersey and Guernsey need a good clear out……………One can dream……….
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What a disgrace!
The Jersey amateur politics put the island to shame. How can states members be looking after the residents best interests when they are bickering like a bunch of children.
Roll on the recession…..
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Further reflections.
1) Re: the Pitmans a lovely direct and American phrase “Put up or shut up!” If Mr & Mrs Pitman have nothing further of substance to say I will expect a full apology with their letter of resignation;
2) Re; Senator Perchard a full and unequal denouncement of the language he allegedly used. A small price to pay if he has nothing to be ashamed of;
3) Re: Senator Syvret a magnanimous burying of the hatchet if Senator does as per 2) above.
Peace in our time? We have to hope of climbing out of a recessionary hole if the boys and girls, big and small, cannot keep their eye on the real issue! The voters are watching.
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Well what a disgusting state of affairs, imagine how awful such a bullying atmosphere poor Stuart has to endure in his workplace, no doubt day in day out, merely for telling the truth about what goes on. The poor man, only someone with God on his side could put up with it. The comments from the Health Minister both published in his letter re Blogs, and now I can believe what he was reputed to have said to Stuart, are despicable, and he should be made to resign immediately.
Perchards views on mental health prove the man does not deserve to be in his position any longer. I am totally disgusted with him!
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Linda,
Are you serious when you say:
“Well what a disgusting state of affairs, imagine how awful such a bullying atmosphere poor Stuart has to endure in his workplace, no doubt day in day out, merely for telling the truth about what goes on.”
He said that children had been murdered at HDG. He said that anybody who disagreed was an establishment figure implicated in a cover up, and he went on national television with the sole aim of discrediting Jersey’s reputation. It seems he was wrong.
In my book, making incorrect allegations is not the same as “telling the truth”. The supporters of those States members who are otherwise unemployable (and SS has by his own admission looked for alternative employment) seem to be confuse hating Jersey with “the truth”.
Clue: “The truth” is the stuff that goes on outside of your own head, in real life.
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Reading the above I have had a brief read of the Stuart Syvret blog site and am shocked at the abuse, insults and allegations contained therein. It is a disgrace and is made the worse as he uses the title Senator. I therefore have to agree with TBM. This person is out to destroy Jersey. He misuses his position to bully and like all bullies is quick to dish out but if the victim replies he goes crying to the teacher.
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The more we side with one or the other of these 2 the more attention these people get, the bones of it is it doesn’t matter who said what to who, the reality is it should have been settled outside of the states chamber,
it reminded me of an incident with my 11 year old son after a bad day at school, Syvret saying “sir sir he swore at me” and the other boiy saying “I didn’t”
Is it any wonder Jersey is in the state it is in with numpties like these two in government, my message is boys be men! if a couple of bad words are going to upset you then you really are in the wrong job!
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Re Comment 77.
Two points: my actions in the States were not “crying to an authority”. I have not and do not intend to make any formal complaint – as I have better things to be doing with my time.
But the attention of the Chair and the chamber had to be drawn to the issue.
When a States member, me in this case, is trying to listen to an answer from a Minister – and the member next to you is stating that obscene comment into your ear – and inviting you to commit suicide – three times over – a response was unavoidable.
No assembly can operate on that basis. And as far as the veracity of my statement is concerned, I am ready and willing to confirm it’s accuracy under oath. In fact, I think a few other members heard Senator Perchard’s remark as well.
What is obvious about the situation is that had the roles been reversed, I’d have been thrown out of the chamber.
As far as the use of the Internet is concerned, I’m more than happy for others to use it. Indeed, I am subject to tirades of abuse on certain forums and blogs. I don’t whinge about it – it’s part of the territory of being in public life.
If Jimmy can’t handle the heat, he should get out of the kitchen.
Stuart
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TBM you seem to have your undergarments in a twist here so I just want to clarify a couple of things I seem to have missed.
Are you saying that every single one of Syvret’s attacks on various people on his blog are without substance or would you agree that en element of substance may be present in varying degrees in at least some of those attacks?
Secondly, you mentioned Syvret’s “made up stories of murders at Haut de la Garenne”.
Please direct me to where or when Syvret made it up. As far as I was aware Syvret had nothing to do with that investigation whatsoever and the talk of murders came directly from the police.
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My only comment on this was why did stuart feel the need to repeat every word that was sadi to him. Surley he should be mature enough to realise that such language is not suitable for the house especially when being broardcast live. He could have made his point by incinuating the bad language without having to say it.
But as per his comment 89 i agree something should have been said as this behaviour should not be tolerated in the house.
As for Deputies Pitman, i have never found either one of them to be suitable or worthy of their positions but their parishoners voted for them so i suppose we have to put up with their petty bickering with other members.
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The Possible HDLG murders.
Yes, you’re quite correct, that issue was not one ever raised by me, as specific allegations of that nature had not been drawn to my attention.
But the allegations of possible child deaths didn’t originate from the police either.
They came from members of the public, who gave a number of convincing pieces of witness testimony which suggested child deaths may have occurred there. The police didn’t pluck the idea out of the air.
One can only imagine the scandal if it later emerged that several , plausible witness had raised concerns which pointed to that possibility – and then simply ignored them.
Stuart
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Appauling behaviour,Jim Perchard should be sacked immediately if this is true,especially given his current position.
Im not a particular fan of Stuart Syvret,but dont imagine for one moment he would invent this.No States member should have to endure this kind of treatment by another member.No wonder the States dont have the respected of the public when they cant even respect each other.
Stuart Syvret should be applauded for standing up and bringing the matter out in the open.
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The only time Stuart Syvret or the JDA gets any media attention these day is through stupid outbursts like this. Ignore them, why give them or any of the minority supporters the publicity the so crave? Stuart’s blog is pure fantasy. More fool for the people that swallow it.
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76 Mad foetus – “nobody can work with SS” – this is untrue, in fact Senator Syvret is working very well with States members who are respectful and constructive, particulalry amongst the “newbies” and this has been of benefit to the Island already.
78 Jay – The Pitmans’”allegations” re fraud by a States member was never brought to trial or acquitted because Planning swept it under the carpet on the instructions of the States Chamber – this is on public record.
What is the correct procedure when a States member is abused in the Chamber? Report it to PPC? However if PPC don’t like you, are you likely to get a fair hearing? Catch 22 situation isn’t it?
A properly constituted forum of unbiased (non-States)members is required to deal with these situations so that decorum can return to the States Chamber (preferably manned by volunteers and not funded by taxpayers money).
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Oh my word!
Where in the world do ministers of parliament allow themselves to be drawn into public debate on the local newspapers website!
If the allegations against Senator Perchard are found to be true, then criminal behaviour such as this should not be tolerated and Senator Syvret, in my opinion, should be preparing to file legal charges.
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i cant quite understand how Mr Syvret has time to comment on a newspaper website when he’s supposed to be assisting running an island.
Let them take their petty arguements outside and get people in who want the best for the people of this island.
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I agree the conduct in the States should be addressed. We the tax payer are paying these servants our good money. As for the Pitmans they are a total discrace and along with the Syvrets of this world are in there not for the people but a their own agendas.
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Re Senator Syvret comment 92 – As health minister it was his job to know what was going on but it appears he had no idea. Maybe he should examine his own conduct and performance and have the guts to admit that as minister it was HIS responsibility.
Having now read the blog that he seems so proud of, I am disgusted with myself for ever voting for this apology of a politician and would strongly urge any decent person to do the same before ever considering to vote for him.
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Nellie Macon, when the JDA appear in the Royal Court next month which is also scheduled on public record, then come back and comment on the worth of some States members.
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I agree with Trinity bean. Senator Syvret’s blog is nothing but a diatribe of nonsence in a feeble attempt to defend appalling Police work of last year. Why he finds it necessary to even attempt to defend a Police Officer that made such a mess of the abuse investigation really asks serious questions about his credibility as a politician.
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As far as I am concerned if Senator Syvret is telling the truth Senator Perchard should step down. This is appalling behaviour if true.
Senator Perchard should tell his side of events please. I am sure he will want to clear his name.
I would also ask any other States members in the vacinity to reply to this request for information. Surely someone will have heard what was said?
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Ah, how good is it to have some light relief from the whole financial crisis-credit crunch – mass redundancies-sackings-layoffs-low employment-low interest rates- low stock markets palavar we’ve had to endure for the last year or so?!
I hope tourism jump on this massive opportunity to promote the comedy club that is the States chamber.
I still say we should reduce the numbers in the chamber by half, double the salaries, and attract the type of people who are able to present themselves with a degree of decorum worthy of public office. As I’ve said previously you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Nelly, your young lad’s performed alright so far so I won’t tar him with the same brush. Yet.
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It could be worse Jersey, at least you don’t have an unelected Scottish leader telling the UK parliament how he saved the world despite the fact he blatantly got the nation in debt with his financial policies in the 1990s.
Got to love politics! It ain’t always greener somewhere else.
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Re: Comments 97 & 98
Commenting on Internet forums, such as this, is part & parcel of engaging with the public. It’s certainly preferable to being the kind of politician who only ever appears on the radar screen 5 months before an election.
‘Trinitybean’, the fact are:
HDLG closed in 1986.
I was elected in November 1990.
Quite what I’m supposed to have done about HDLG, I just don’t know.
As to my blog – I wouldn’t claim it’s perfect – but, yes, I am proud of it.
Why? Because I write it openly; under my own name; I make great use of information many members of the public disclose to me – because they trust me – and know that I won’t be afraid to publish the material if I deem it sufficiently evidenced.
If anyone thinks I’ve defamed them, I’m ready and willing to see them in court.
I have exposed more public interest issues on my blog in 14 months than all of Jersey’s media combined has in the last 10 years.
And using Citizen Media has the additional advantage of greatly diminishing the power of establishment spin-doctors – a few of who, using pseudonyms, probably write 85% of the pro-establishment comments on sites like this.
You know – ordinary people have to fight back. And my blog is but one, small example of that.
Stuart
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What has Perchard got to say for himself?
Has he read this forum?
Perhaps he is playing for time whilst trying to remember what he “really” said that must have sounded like that in the hubbub of the chamber.
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Stuart – the point of having spin doctors is that they help you out when you have a crisis. Having an open blog leaves you open to media criticism where a controlled blog via a press officer would stop you saying things that may damage your reputation.
I could never imagine Gordon Brown having an open blog and even David Cameron’s video blogs are controlled to portray a specific image.
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Stuart Syvret claims that if he has defamed anyone then he is ready and willing to see them in court. He knows full well that taking anyone to court is going to cost tens, or hundreds of thousands of pounds, and whilst one could argue that a person who has been defamed could also sue for costs, realistically, I doubt Senator Syvret has that kind of money lying around to meet those costs.
Therefore, unless any of the people he has blantantly defamed has a spare hundred thousand grand lying around that they are willing to write off, sueing is not going to be a viable option.
He also knows that by responding to his bizarre accusations, the arguement could then enter a public arena, and could cause more damage than good. Regardless of how innocent a person is, once an accusation of the nature he has made becomes public, it will always be there and that would be career suicide.
The senator knows that he is untouchable. for now.
As for his accountability, he is correct that he was not minister when HDLG was open, however he was minister when Greenfields was open and the fiasco that ensued with the management there was under his watch. Senator Syvret has also been critical of H&SS and child protection in jersey, again another service under his watch, and then there was the tragic death of a patient, again, under his watch.
When mistakes are made in other departments, how often do we hear that the minister in charge should offer to step down. Should he have not set the example and done the honourable thing.
I would like to ask the Senator one question. When he was the minister for H&SS, how often did he visit the staff or clients of a) social services, b) children’s homes c) the hospital.
He has also openly criticized a former magistrate on his blog for “locking up children”. I would be interetsed in what alternatives he offered for young offenders whilst he was the minister responsible for their well being.
Whilst not condoning Senator Perchards behaviour, if indeed he did behave in this manner, the fact that Syvret is making a fuss over this is a bit like the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. Until Syvret learns how to conduct himself properly then he has no right to throw his toys out of the pram when someone dishes out a dose of his own medicine.
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Well I’d much rather have a spade that can dig the dirt, than one of those silver sugar-sifting ones with holes in any day. In fact I’d go so far as to say the best spade is the original authentic ‘Jersey’ one, now known to us locals as ‘Stuart the Spade’ tool of the commoner.
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Re: Comment 105
“And using Citizen Media has the additional advantage of greatly diminishing the power of establishment spin-doctors – a few of who, using pseudonyms, probably write 85% of the pro-establishment comments on sites like this.”
Stuart, would you say that your comment is sufficiently evidenced?
What evidence do you have that 85% of forum comments are made by ‘establishment’ spin-doctors? Is it not as easy to say that that 85% of comments are made by anti-establishment types under pseudonyms?
I personally wouldn’t suggest either figure, while I don’t don’t doubt that this behavior happens from both sides of the political fence; what I would suggest is that many of the most vitriolic posts I’ve seen in forums have been made by posters, whether under their own name or not, who simple haven’t thought their arguments through, or who enter a forum of debate with a closed mind and will not allow facts or reason to sway them from their often incorrect beliefs.
So while the mainstream media may not run every story in the way that people will happily run there mouths off on the internet, and while we all accept that we can’t believe everything we read, at least what’s in the paper can be held to account when it’s untrue; many of the people posting on the internet do so under pseudonyms, and when they make false statements and accusations nobody can hold them to account.
So, to return to my first question: would you say your claim that I’ve quoted is sufficiently evidenced? If so where’s your evidence: If not what else have you written that should be treated with the same skepticism?
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Stuart Syvret says “HDLG closed in 1986, I was elected in November 1990, Quite what I’m supposed to have done about HDLG, I just don’t know.”
That goes for every other States Member doesn’t it? And Stuart was demanding the house apologised for what went on.
I think the problem is that since Stuart cannot rant about HDLG anymore because people are bored to tears about hearing it, his only way of getting the attention he craves is to swear in the Chamber on live radio.
And now you can see why none of the other States members want to work with him.
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50. Richard Murphy
You, Richard, as a UK resident, will of course recognise the absurdity of 1) your Home Secretary and her second mortgage and 2) the non-dom regime which clearly makes the UK itself a tax haven.
People in glass houses.
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There are a couple of ways to sort out this Perchard vx Syvret incident:
1) Both politicians submit themselves to a polygraph test. Yes, that’ll happen!
2) Any fellow politician who heard the remarks – if they were made – does the honourable thing and states what they heard.
The chances of both resolutions are very low.
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This would make a great episode of the Simpsons!
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LOL… I love comedy.. Keep it up Jersey
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Big Bean 108 you said “When mistakes are made in other departments, how often do we hear that the minister in charge should offer to step down. Should he have not set the example and done the honourable thing.”
The fundamental difference I feel between mistakes made in other departments and those you refer to by H&SS is that in the latter case Syvret himself helped to expose them. Isn’t that just what he is supposed to do – as opposed to paint over the cracks as others have done?
If a minister in any department discovers serious systemic faults on his watch, is he supposed to stand down or expose them and put them right? We would never get anything done if the minister responsible stepped down whenever they found a problem.
The reason others have been called to stand down in the past is generally because the failures have been discovered by others rather than by those who are paid to discover them.
Ministers should be required to resign only if they have caused the problem, failed to notice it or failed to deal with it adequately when they discover it – cause, neglect or dereliction of duty. I fail to see how any of those apply to Syvet’s tenure at H&SS.
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Re Comment97
I can understand. It’s really quick to read and post comments. You could do it while on the loo on a PSP, or on the bus on a mobile, on the PC whilst having a coffee, on a PS3 during a games break, even on a DS after a strenuous brain-training.
I am delighted that paid members may wish to interact with us public. It can only draw derision because some people believe there should be a distance between public & state. Why? I have to involuntarily fund this behemoth of government, the very least I would expect is that members are approachable. Saddly, most in this island (members that is) seem to regard the public as irritants, like Choronomids, to be swatted away and squished.
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Re quote 107
If you’re on the wrong side of the fence, you have no ‘reputation’ to start with.
What’s with this ideal for deference and politeness? I don’t see this applied by the ruling political classes, so why should us horrible oiks?
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I would expect any honourable person who, for whatever reason has resorted to such behaviour as SS alleges to have the courage to either resign or apologise. Having said that and having read the foul and abusive language used by Senator Syvret in his blog he to should have the courage of his convictions and resign.
His claim for free speech is flawed. The standard of his rants is that of a 1930’s dictator and I would genuinely fear for the people of Jersey should he ever be elevated to Chief Minister. In his blog he acts as judge, jury and executioner, with no scruples or thought of the consequences or his actions or on the lives of the people he attacks or even for the people of Jersey. Throughout the blog he appears to pursue those who have stood up to him subjecting them to a barrage of abuse, allegations and insults. He appears a failed politician, exploiting any cause no matter how vile to further his political ambitions. He clearly resents anybody he sees as even marginally successful.
Our politicians are responsible for the laws that govern us all and as such should be an example. Yes JP if guilty he should apologise or resign and likewise senator Syvret, who by his own admission is guilty, and worse proud, of it should also resign. If this happens we will have an election which he and JP can slug it out and account to the electorate for their actions. I am sure that if Senator Syvret is actually correct in his claims that he alone represents the masses than he will win hands down and the likes of myself will have to accept this. It will be interesting to see if he has the courage or will like Gordon Brown cling to what ever political power he has and or course continues to draw £40k plus from the tax payer.
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Unfortunately as far as I am concerned most in the States are either establishment supporters or go with the flow to avoid upsetting the establishment. Until this changes things will only get worse. The establishment have shown themselves time and time again not to be interested in what the public wants prefering to do what the rich and big business wants for fear of upsetting these people. Also many running the states fall into this category as well so why would they want to implement anything which might adversely affect themselves?
As regards Stuart Syvret he is allowing people access to imformation which would have been kept from the public. The public has a right to know what is going on behind the scenes. If only a small percentage of what is published on his blog is correct it is pretty damning on those running the island as far as I am concerned.
108 Big Bean. Some of the people he has commented on have big money. If I was one of these and had been defamed I wouldn’t be worrying about loosing a few hundred thousand pounds, as ones reputation, as you well know, is priceless. If no one takes him to court I myself can only draw the conclusion that these comments are infact more than likely the truth.
Anyway as people should know there is a far easier option than this which costs virtually nothing. There is thus no excuse not to pursue this avenue. I suggest all these people who are saying he is publishing lies just contact Google and supply evidence that what Stuart Syvret has published on his blog is lies. They will then shut his blog down. As easy as this.
I request someone do this then publish on here that they have done so. Maybe Mr.Perchard who seems so upset about this could do this? We can then all wait with bated breathe to see Stuart Syret’s blog get shut down. This to me is an easy way to sort this out once and for all. Will those affected want to do this to clear their names? If they don’t one has to ask questions why not?
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Of course, another reason not to sue someone is because you might know that the one skeleton coming out of the closet is simply holding back more bones.
It’s not all about money.
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Re comment 115.
I was going to make a similar point, but that comment got there first.
I know some people have a terrible difficulty with facts, but for those who think, consider this.
Under the old Committee system which began in 1948, and taking it up to 1998, which was around the time I became a member of the old H & SS Committee, there were 16 3-year political terms. Therefore there were 16 Committees of 7 States members. Obviously, some members will have served on the relevant committee for more than a term, so the figures I give here are for ‘political existences’.
16 x 7 = 112.
That’s 112 ‘political’ lives (fewer in practice, 70 or 80 perhaps?) that had responsibility for child protection, which was vested in the Education committee for the great majority of that time.
Of that very considerable number I was the first politician – and, so far, only politician – to discover and fight the gross, decades-old failures in Jersey’s child protection systems.
The fact that the response of the States and the senior civil service was to contrive and engineer my dismissal in an attempt to keep it covered-up goes a long way to explaining why Jersey has gone to hell on a hand-cart.
Stuart
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How can we expect the Islands Government to be taken seriously if these kinds of incidents happen within the “civilised” States sittings. I feel even more disappointed with the States members.
The incidents only seem to confirm what the Public think of the majority of the States members, and they wonder why there is voter appathy.
Those States members, who work away, outside the limelight abd actually do their job end up over-shadowed by such incidents of stupidity.
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OK, Even if “you are full of f*****g s**t, why don’t you go and top yourself, you bastard”.’was said.
Stuart you are a grown man, once again “you” by your grandstanding have disgraced this island .
Why on earth did you not do what other men would have done, put your hand over your mouth and say, shut up you foul mouthed T- – T (insert pregnant goldfish here)
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The States here should be uniting as one; they don’t have time for personal vendettas, time in fact is running out.
Super Hero! St Gordon Brown and the rest of the G20 are going to try and close us down when they meet in April. May I suggest the States put more effort into protecting our children’s futures and less time as carrying on like children themselves.
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I blame the J cat’s
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Having read through the comments made on this forum I become more and more dumbfounded as to how this matter has escalated to a public dispute. Surely this is a matter for the States to resolve. There has clearly been an incident of misconduct within the Chamber and, as within any organisation; there must be policies in place deal with it. Senator Syvret stated that he does not want to take the matter further, but it is clearly being taken further outside the confines of the Chamber and into public domain. Surely it is not for the persons involved in the altercation to decide what measures should be taken to remedy the situation, but for the States to invoke its policies and call for a hearing where the appropriate action can be taken.
Just two questions:
Who is the official States spokesperson?
What policies do the States have in place to protect itself against its members engaging with the public on a matter of such serious implication without going through that official spokesperson?
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If Perchard did say that, I reckon Syvret would have been in his rights to have decked him. If true, we may have a Minister of Health encouraging people to “top themselves”. If so, has he run this new initiative past our Head of Medical Services, Dr Geller?
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I cannot believe Syvret is trying to take credit for ‘exposing’ the child care failures. The investigation into historic child abuse was started by the police (in secret) long before Syvret stuck his oar in.
In my opinion Syvret got wind of this and to try and cover up his own inadequacies and embarrassment at not knowing what was going on in his own department he went on the offensive.
Syvret’s ‘constructive’ input was to undermine the hardworking staff who are currently in charge of child protection (even though subsequent independent reports have shown them to be doing a reasonable job with no ‘systematic’ failings) which, in my opinion, only served to put children in care further at risk. This is why he was sacked – not for ‘whistle-blowing’ or exposing non-existent cover-ups.
As if that wasn’t bad enough Syvret then jumped on Harper’s bandwagon and the two of them through their fanciful, publicity seeking, self-serving rantings detracted resources away from the main historic child abuse enquiry.
In my opinion rather than ‘exposing’ child care failings Syvret has actually hindered the process
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I think SS would get more support from fair-minded people like myself if he could explain why he asked the police to investigate alleged blackmail against him by the Tax Justice Network, then, after the TJN claimed to possess e-mails proving that there was no such blackmail, why he failed to pursue the claim, arguing he was in fact “too busy” to assist the police.
If any other States member acted that way, would not SS be the first person to accuse them of bullying, trying to use their political influence to affect the police and wasting police time?
Or is there one rule for SS and another for all other politicians?
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Comment 129
Would you rather have a completely closed government that only gave you information they felt you deserved or were capable of handling?
or
Would you like a open government that can hold it’s hands up to the mistakes of the past even if it was not their own and try to resolve them?
Would you rather your friends, family or work colleagues held their hands up to a mistake or tried to cover it up?
I know there are a lot of people out there on a Stuart Syvret bashing drive but in all honesty I would pesonally have 40 more like him then what we have to suffer now with the likes of our current ministers.
Give us the Open Government we were PROMISED!!!!
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Today i went into town and went to yet another closing down shop (yeah ok it was poundland but still)
i started talking to an old lady outside teh shop who says she wishes she could move off the island because its going down hill fast.
We have people losing their jobs over here, prices are going up, and yet the politicans are busy arguing amongst themselves.
I have a 2 year old daughter and to be quite honest i wonder sometimes what i going to be left of this island for her and her generation to inherit?
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mad foetus
You are partly right – one rule for Syvret, one for the JDA and their hangers on and another that politicians are expected to adhere. Having read some of the comments I don’t think the first two groups should be allowed to use the title of politician.
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Stuart you are the father of the house and with that comes responsibility, adult responsibility, you knew the tapes were running and you played to that tape, what you should of done is stated that expleatives were being whispered in your ear and you would like them to stop, but being the attention seeking outcast that you have become you couldn’t resist.
Your hatred for the “establishment” has taken your eye off the ball, and it seems that you are more interested in scoring points against them than trying to work with them or for the people. Stuart ask yourself, what good did your outburst do for the people of Jersey??? none infact it damaged the islands reputation, this Island your profess to be so fond of.
I don’t know the way forward but please for the people of Jersey for the children who will be going to Uni in the UK please think of Jersey before you speak.
I am not asking you to cover up matters of importance just think before you blurt them out, inject some common sense into your actions, you never know it may help!
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Its a pity we cannot nominate our Ministers for the comedy section of the Oscars because I am certain they would win it hands down. Grow up and do what you are supposed to be doing take care of the people of Jersey.
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If what Syvret reported was true, and that truth upsets you or damages the island, so be it. What you are suggesting is a dumbing down of the truth.
I oppose that suggestion absolutely. I prefer the truth in all its ugly glory, even if the truth hurts. Better that than being left in the dark and fed diluted facts.
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Do you think this was actually some Red Nose day prank?! I certainly think people outside the island will be doubled over laughing at us.
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The Chief Executives / executives / managers / assistant managers / heads of departments must be laughing their socks off.
While the politicians are busying themselves, what other rewards can we add to our enjoyment of life enriching Jersey.
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Monty Python comes to mind with their Ministry of Silly Walks or was it the Ministry of Stupidity?
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The victim of abuse should never be held responsible for the abuse if they report it. This is one of the underlying principles of our society.
This kind of behaviour would not be acceptable by a commander to a subordinate in the army. The subordinate would be encouraged to report it and even comments made about fellow soldiers are unacceptable as prince William found out.
I think it could be a breach of the peace if said on the street.
If it is true, it shows a lack of respect for fellow human beings and a lack of belief in freedom of speech.
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The issue here is that either a Senator or a Minister has misled the house. They can’t both be telling the truth, can they? I’m not sure I find that comical at all.
If it is the Senator, one is at a total loss to find an explanation for his motives.
If, if it is the Minister, how are we to trust anything he says in future?
A fundamental of democracy is that elected representatives should never knowingly mislead the parliament, if that goes, we’re sunk.
Leaving aside the content of the alleged remark it is either the accusation that they were made or the subsequent denial that has damaging implications for you and me.
Furthermore if, I repeat if, the alleged remarks were made and were overheard by others the Minister is putting his colleagues in a very unfair position. Someone should have the courage to come clean.
Again if the alleged remarks were made the Senator had every right to repeat them on the floor of the house verbatim – it’s called standing up to bullying.
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Syvret needs to lighten up. He’s like a schoolboy running to the teacher. “Sir, Jim’s calling you names”
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Oh boy, and we wonder why the young folk get out of hand??
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Stuart Syvret is just a bully. He has now shown that he has no consideration for the public when swearing on live radio.
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How many posters on this site are actually real Jersey people…….. Not many I fear. Those who accuse SS over trying to destroy Jersey over his exposure of HDLG care nothing for Jersey or its people. I applaud his stance and openness and the people of Jersey are far better placed for having such an honest, upstanding man in their mist………You carry on SS and ignore those who trash you and who have destroyed Jersey.
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Drawbridge:
How many posters on this site are actually “real Jersey people”……..
Define real Jersey people please?
To me a real Jersey person is someone who contributes to the island and pays their way (no cash in hand or underhand dealings) someone who loves the island and wants to give something back.
To me a “real Jersey person” is not someone who whinges constantly about others, and takes a delight in other’s misfortune(that is a generic comment to a pervading negative undercurrent in some elements of Jersey Society).
I think it is attitudes like “real Jersey person” that destroys Jersey and creates a divided and bitter society.
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My definition of where a person comes from is mainly down to where they are born. For example there is no way on earth an English person could ever be discribed as an Australian, no matter how long they lived there, as far as I am concerned. Yes they could become naturalised as an Australian but do you honestly think they can ever be classified as an Australian and be the same as someone born there?
Carolyn, Drawbridge is in my opinion meaning that most people in Jersey weren’t born here and are therefore not Jersey people as they are the nationality of where they were born. This how people are classified i.e. by nationality.
A Jersey person is therefore someone born here who has links to the island. The longer these links go back the more connection they have to Jersey. How can anyone new to the island have much as much in common with it? They are new and have a different outlook on things, they have different values often to the indigenous population, maybe a different set of standards, they are different simply because they weren’t born and brought up here. If I went to live in England I never would become English, my background is different and I have a different outlook and possibly values from English people due to where I was brought up. I am not English and never would want to be classified as English, as I am Jersey born.
Whinging has nothing to do with nationality except maybe if you are Australian (ref whinging Poms). Many Jersey people have because increasingly disillusioned with the way the island is going. They wish to maintain their way of life and not become to all intents and purposes a mini English county.
Unfortunately Jersey is a divided community and always has been. However it is not divided just on grounds of race but more and more on grounds of economics. Hatred will unfortunately surface when large numbers of people get adversely affected by a bad economic event like a depression. This is not right and shouldn’t happen but it does.
In extreme cases you get events like the French Revolution occuring when those running the place believe they are above everyone else and can do as they please, as the rabble, as they are perceived, have no means to rebel against the system. However superior numbers with perceived injustices tend to triumph in the end, especially if they are continually ignored.
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If you read his blog, Stuart Syvret is totally obsessed with Lenny Harper and Graham Power, he hates the council of ministers, and has put it upon himself to be some kind of savior of children. This obsession has gone beyond sensibility and has moved into a farce. If you read a few of the other blogs out there they are mimicking him. 13 months on and nobody jailed. I just wonder whether his obsession togther with his hand full of loyal supporters are blind to the fcat that they have done more damage than good.
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Dear Adrian,
Thank you for your very literal analysis of Drawbridge’s comments – it would be nice to hear from the person who submitted those comments if indeed your lengthy interpretation is correct.
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the world is watching this shambles.
a disgracefull day for jersey politics.
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On the BBC Radio Jersey Talkback, which I only caught part of, did Perchard admit that he had used expletives to Syvret in the chamber?
Did ayone else hear that?
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Yes, you are right, but it was Stuart Syvret who repeated it for live radio. There is no excuse for doing this.
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Tim (148) – Suggest you read the article in The Guardian on Saturday regarding HdelaG.
You may take a rather difference stance on SS and his mission then.
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tim ,if perchard never said itin the first place to SS ,SS wouldnt have to repeat it.PERCHARD OUT !!!!
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Sara #79
“Bean up all night, we are taking Stuart Syvret’s word against Jimmy Perchard’s. From the history of Stuart’s ramblings I side with Jimmy.”
Sara, As you felt that you “do not think being rude in the States is the Government any sensible minded Jersey person wants” and that those doing so should be punished (#56), can you think of a suitable punishment for Perchard now that he has admitted being rude in the States?
Or do you only suggest punishments for those who are not in your favour?
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Regardless of what Senator Syvret has said and done over the years, I cannot give my support a health minister who has blatantly failed to show tolerance and professionalism in is “private outburst” to Syvret.
Firstly Senator Perchard lied to the house in initally denying he verbally abused Syvret in the states assembly, My concern is that if he can so easily lie to the assembly and deputy bailiff what else is he prepared to lie about??
A honourable gentleman should never need to apologise but be honest and keep his integrity all of the time.
Secondly As a minister of health one should have a little more care and understanding towards others, Health is not all about the physical state but also the emotional well being of a person and to cast scorn and vulgarity on a person who is at a low ebb is neither caring or understanding of the person.
Lastly I think I am correct in saying that taking ones life is a crime under jersey law and for a member of the states to be arrogant enough to suggest to someone that they should go top themselves could be conceived as inciting someone to commit a crime.
I therefore believe that the only honourable thing left for Senator Perchard is to resign with immediate effect.
As a health professional I have lost all respect and confidence in him as the minister of health and would never advocate that a person with such disregard for others and a wiliness to incite a criminal act should have any thing to do with a profession that requires qualities in a person that he clearly does not posses.
Mr Perchard my message to you is simple, you have done wrong by your own admission, you have showed sever disregard to another person, you may have inadvertently acted in the right circumstances could have lead to someone taking their own life, you have also showed disregard to the law by inciting or suggesting to someone that the commit a crime.
You should now what to do without being told so I challenge you now to do the right thing.
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So who was most wrong in your book Tim?
1. Perchard the bully Minister for Health who uses disgusting language while suggesting suicide to a person he has previously referred to as mentally disturbed, or;
2. the victim of such bullying who reported this disgraceful conduct to the chair?
Your comment (152) seems to be suggesting that the victim should carry the can.
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Perchard is not a doctor but he represents and appoints them as the Health Minister.
Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath which includes the following:-
1. Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else’s interest
2. To avoid violating the morals of my community.
It is hard to see how, by encouraging a fellow human being to slit their wrists, he can continue to represent the Health Service when his own attitudes violate the very priciples of the people he employs.
It is hard to see how he can continue in politics when those attitudes offend against the morals of the community.
One could imagine how swiftly a Prime Minister would distance himself from his Secretary of State for Health if such comments were admitted.
But…this is Jersey…
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I would trust Stuart ahead of most in the States. There is no reason for him to make this up. I therefore believe Senator Perchard is guilty and should therefore resign. Yes people make mistakes however there is one thing I can’t abide and that is liars.
carolyn 149. sorry this is what I thought Drawbridge was trying to get at, however it may have been meant differently.
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Read Saturday’s Guardian.
You really can understand why Syvret does what he does.
Well done that man.
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And now he admits its true.
All of you non believers hang your heads.
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Now the truth has been revealed, there should be a few red faces in the States chambers. But the only way forward from this is more truth and transparency from our elected AND unelected leaders.
Frankly, we are getting fed up of being collectively lied to by those who see themselves as better than us simply because they have more money than most and others were stupid enough to vote for them!
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Time for the whole lot of them to go- nothing but sleaze and stupidity since before the elections. Clear the lot out and start again quickly or this island with be truly stuffed
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Irrespective of whether you favour Senator Syvret or not, Deputy Perchard made a clear statement to the House, a statement that has now been shown to be an irrefutable lie.
In these circumstances, it is quite unacceptable for a States representative to continue in office, let alone to hold a Ministerial position.
The integrity and trust that are essential to serve the people of the island have been completely undermined by his own actions, and Deputy Perchard should resign immediately, to allow a degree of dignity to be restored to the States.
Incidentally, it is worth reading through an interview between candidate Perchard and Hamish Marett-Crosby before the 2005 elections, where the following statements were made by election candidate Perchard -
“I also feel that Jersey is loosing its identity a little, and people when I am out on the election trail seem to be a little disillusioned, which is very sad. We need to somehow promote pride in our island and try to re-establish the community atmosphere and uniqueness that Jersey is well known for.”
“I hopefully can ensure them that I do not tend to participate in personality politics, and I will work towards achieving a mutually respectful relationship with them all.”
“I like Stuart but I don’t think I’ll be able to support him…”
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Alphonse the problem is the majority are so sick of politics they don’t vote. This leaves the door open for certain characters who can get elected with a little help from their friends and family or business associates. Money means a lot over here.
I believe Mr. Perchard is an embarassment and disgrace and he should do the decent thing and resign. If not I think TLS should sack him and if not I think the Bailiff should suspend him. If nothing happens and he is still in post then we know where we stand.
Tim 148. I believe there is a reason why no one has been brought to justice yet and it has nothing to do with Stuart Syvret. By blaming Stuart Syvret I believe you are blind to reality.
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Jersey, this is a time to get behind your politicians and support them. So JP has a short temper, but he was provoked. It was wrong to swear, but that does not make him a failure, indeed after reading the comments on Senator Syvret’s blog I think he should be congratulated for not defending his good name under Queensbury’s rules!
Give him a chance and remember, united you stand, divided?
PS TLS should be congratulated for his visit to London, not villified, he had no choice in the matter and it was a brave move showing leadership, despite the rude comments about him made elsewhere.
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Regardless of the rights and wrongs of where Perchard’s words were aired and whether or not they should have been repeated there is a huge issue at stake here.
Being Health Minister, Perchard is also reponsible, in part, for the psychiatric and psychological services provided on the island. Given his ignorance and complete disregard for mentally ill people (as obvious from his recent admission and also by the letter published in the JEP) he simply cannot be Health Minister. The post might not require you to be a doctor but it does require some understanding and empathy for ALL medical conditions!
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166. Haro-vien may i suggest you look at the Channel 4 interviews with TLS then maybe you might reassess your comments?
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166 Haro-vien
yes it wrong to swear in the states but its 100 worse to blatently lie in there !
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It just goes to show what a bunch on petty minded lunatics run Jersey! God help the finance industry!
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We get the politicians we deserve over here.
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