Passport rule under attack
Tuesday 17th March 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
NEW border controls that require Islanders to carry a passport to get into the UK have been heavily criticised by a House of Lords select committee.
The UK Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill lets UK customs put up temporary border controls with Jersey without warning, and was passed into law in January.
Jersey and the other Crown Dependencies have complained about the change and a House of Lords select committee has backed their view. The committee said that there had been no open and effective consultation on the new law, that the powers contained in the legislation went too far and that they did not take account of Islanders’ rights to free movement.
In May 2007, the Crown Dependencies – Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man – signed a deal with the UK in which the Labour government said that there would be dialogue between the governments on issues that would affect their constitutional relationships. But the report by the select committee found that the communication between the UK and the Crown Dependencies fell short of what was required.
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What is the fuss? The UK is in the EU, Jersey is not. Like it or not that is our government’s constitutional position.
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Why a passport, what’s wrong with the normal photo ID such as a driving licence.
Next thing you know they’ll be saying you can’t live there without a 12 year qualifying period.
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These measures have been put in place by the UK Border Agency to enable routine border controls. It affects not only the Channel Islands but all the Crown dependencies and the Republic of Ireland.
Should you arrive in Britain from France, for example, you would have to produce your passport as proof of identity and origin, thus proving that you have the “right to free movement” within that jurisdiction.
The Crown dependencies and Republic of Ireland are island jurisdictions through which people could enter Britain illegally and Britain is merely strengthening its borders. This initiative can only improve border control and safety for all jurisdictions concerned and would certainly not remove one’s right to free movement (provided one has it in the first place!)
Besides, we are unable to board a plane or ferry without identity anyway – and we all have passports for just this reason.
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Come in the back of a lorrey no passport needed !!!
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So now it’s the UK and St.Ouen.
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2. Hugh fine by me not much worth going there for anyway.
Another good thing about having a stamp in one’s passport is you get extra hassle at the east European border crossings, as they worry you might be a terrorist. Hay ho nevermind as long as the majority are alright who cares?
Maybe it is about time those choosing to make Jersey their home had a stamp in their passport as they have decided to live outside the EU by coming here. Fair is fair as they say. However I am sure they wouldn’t want their freedom of movement affected would they?
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Why a passport, what’s wrong with the normal photo ID such as a driving licence.
Next thing you know they’ll be saying you can’t live there without a 12 year qualifying period.
Mmmm! perhaps he’s right, anyway..! it would only be a case of the UK being as narrow minded as we have been for years, and we’ve managed to carry it off for years. No worries… we’ve got some great beaches!
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Whats the procedure for British nationals coming to Jersey? Do they need to show a passport? British nationals have to show their passports when they come into the UK.
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I also have to show my passport when I go from the UK to France despite the idea of ‘free movement’ within the EU.
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We take our passports to england whenever we go. Remember it is a foriegn country. We are British, not English.
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I suppose those who don’t actually have a passport can now consider themselves damned and trapped on this rock.
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I went to university in the UK, and then when a job was not available here I worked in the UK. To enjoy this priviledge I had to apply for a national insurance card. Due to having a “stamp” in my passport about not being entitled to work in the UK etc I had to be interviewed at a London immigration office. At the end of that interview, after producing birth certificates and various other forms and bits of paperwork, I was congratulated on my command of the English language!!!. They didnt even know where Jersey was.
IAx
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What about new requirement in a couple of years to have to give 24 hours notice before you intend to leave the island.
This is a step too far.
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This is obviously an attempt to stop unwanted desirables from using e.g. the CI as a stepping stone to get into the UK via the back door.
This will stop the fishermen from bringing in people who circumvent the normal customs\border agencies. Oooh, have I spoken out of turn? Awaiting the expected “incoming” from those who I have upset….
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Why does our Government complain about Islanders being required to carry a Passport to be allowed into the UK but accept the removal of the recipricol agreement re Medical Cover We are told that the border controls (for Passports) have been heavily criticised by a House of Lords select committee following Jersey’s complaint about the change and that they found that the communication between the UK and the Crown Dependencies fell short of what was required. These two issues – Passports and Medical Cover are alike. If the Lords have upheld the former; it is quite possible that they would also agree that the removal of the recipricol agreement has been carried out without sufficient consultation. Time for another complaint to the House of Lords?
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Fully understand about us being ‘outsiders’ but does this mean people without passports now must apply for one?
Many elderly people never go aboard but just visit family and friends in the UK will now have the added cost of obtaining a passport. Surely an ID card would be enough.
Makes one feel we aren’t British any longer!
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I live in the Isle of Man and we are slowly waking up to the problem too.
E-Borders requires all the data from your passport and all the data you give to the airline or ferry company to be transmitted to the Home Office before you travel. They then ‘risk assess’ your journey and issue a clearance to the airline or ferry. Probably the first you will know about this is when they swipe your passport at the gate. If they decide to block your journey you won’t be let through and will be taken aside for questioning.
All the data you send to the Home Office is kept for ten years. This means they can establish a travel record and see how you behave. Also the data goes on to Her Majesties Customs and Immigration (HMRC) so they can monitor your tax situation. In the context of the Crown Dependencies they are primarliy interested in monitoring the 90 day rule. That’s why they want data on small boats.
Clause 46 of the Borders, Immigration and Citizenship Bill presently going through the House of Lords abolishes the Common Travel Area. Lord West of Spithead met the Crown Dependencies last Monday in London to push for the Clause.
All this is an infringement of Human RIghts. You have a right to a private life.
Make no mistake – E-Borders is going to change things for the Crown Dependencies and that’s the intention.
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Border control is good but this is taking the P*&^!
Puts a spanner in the works for people having to go to the UK to apply for “say” Schengan Visas. You normally have to take a day off to apply for the visa, leave your passport with the relevant consulate, then return and collect it 4 days later. How on earth do they expect us to go back to collect the passport without having it to get through security in the UK?
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Maybe if Gordon Brown is looking to cull tax havens. The U.K are prepering their borders for the influx of J-cats who will be returning, looking for work.
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My family of 4 and I have never been abroad (can’t afford to) but we go over every year to Nottingham to see my husbands family. Do we need to get passports now for this? With the cost of flights alone I don’t think we will be able to make it this year
if we have to all get passports as well.
My son went to France with school a couple of years ago and he was able to go on a group passport for a small fee if I recall rightly. Would we have this choice?
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Britain has introduced new immigration laws and hence, has stepped up the control of its borders. This is not a vindictive attack by Britain against its crown dependencies but an effort to control immigration, terrorism and the import/export of drugs.
By virtue of the fact that Britain’s crown dependencies are not part of (that is, attached to) the isle of Great Britain they have, to date, had to rely on those crown dependencies border controls. This has now changed, which means that all visitors from these islands will need to prove to the British authorities that they are in fact from where they claim to be from, and do, in fact, have the right to freedom of movement within that country.
The public are the first to be up in arms regarding immigration control into the island of Jersey; the ease at which drugs are imported into the island; and incidents of terrorism which take place in the world and hopefully these new controls will help to curb these activities.
This move is by no means an infringement on ones human rights, or ones right to free movement. The only difference is that you will need to produce your passport on arrival at Britain’s shores and airports, that’s hardly restricting ones right to freedom of movement. As for the Home Office keeping data on people – they have been doing it for years. Even the bank at which you hold your savings/current account keep data on you for the life of that relationship, and for a good number of years after it has ceased. Is this an infringement on ones human rights?
A passport is the internationally recognised means of identification when travelling and for the small minority who don’t have a passport, it is an unfortunate reality, small inconvenience and expense, but they will have to obtain one. A driver’s licence (the old cardboard one being a perfect example) is just not an appropriate or acceptable means of identification when travelling to other countries.
If you are a British citizen, your passport will state so, and to make it clearer, take a look at the very first page of your passport – it states:
“Her Britannic Majesty’s Lieutenant-Governor and Commander-in-Chief of Jersey (Channel Islands) and its dependencies Requests and requires in the Name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary”.
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all this red tape is the result of (9/11)it now gives gouvernment in uk the excuse to control our every movement under the guise of terrorism.it gives them the excuse to monitor every-one with cameras and searches where-ever they like,searching your luggage at airports and ferries,as you could be a potential terrorist,and is making travelling a nightmare rather than a holiday
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There is an old saying.. “what is good for the goose is good for the gander” Border controls are in place for a very good reason.. Jersey has a tendencay to pick and choose it’s laws and some for very good reasons (housing law, 5-year residency rule). The fact that Jersey has opted not be part of the EU means you don’t get the opportunity to make EU decisions.. if a passport is required for entry into a EU country .. well then .. abide by the law… get one.. at least you don’t have to wait 12-years. think about it..
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Sorry Nick (9) a complex mix of EU opt outs by the UK government. However as an EU citizen you can fast track passport control in those EU congeries. More to the point, now the Iron Curtin is gone it is possible to cross frontiers by simply getting lost.
Robert (5) make a pertinent point, as does, St Ouens Resident (18)
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Hi St Ouens Resident – You are able to apply for a Schengan Visa through the post using the downloadable application forms available from various consulates. This way you post (using courier or registered mail) your passports to the relevant consulate. It’s a far less expensive than having to pay for 2 return flights and transport in London.
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Pandora’s Hope, your position is too insular.
It was the House of Lords who raised concerns on Jersey’s behalf:
They have already raised concerns that too much data is going to be gathered, that the ‘stop and search’ proposals breach Human Rights and that passing our travel records to HMRC is unconstitutional.
Your Chief Minister is doing a good job fighting for Jerseys postion – back him up!
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#3 totally agree, it probably will be a major hassle to some but for most we take passports when going to the UK anyway.
#8 Nick, on one of my last connecting flights heading for Jersey, myself and other Jersey bound people were shepherded along a separate exit lane upon arrival at Gatwick, we walked about half a mile to what looked like a derelict building where our passports were checked and eventually we joined the main throng of flyers and got on our plane to Jersey! I was surprised, and I’ll admit somewhat bemused because the man that checked it spoke little, if any, English, but it wasn’t much of a bother in the end.
The UK hasn’t been protecting its borders properly for the last few decades, it needs to and fast cause other EU countries (some very close to Jersey) are taking the proverbial! Unfortunately for Jersey, being an island, it could be used by people to gain access to the UK (that’s just life). I can’t blame the UK for this because I have signed every petition going for the UK to protect its borders better.
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#6 Adrian, I think I made that point alongside another story. You probably could get an idea of who genuinely intended to stay here long-term and make a life here and who was just riding on an economic high (and would leave just a fast as they arrived) by enforcing such a rule.
I do believe it’s the fairest way. But ‘equality’ as we know it is always very unequal, and in favour of the minority. That’s life as we know it now.
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#8 Nick, again you’re right. I’m Scottish and I haven’t been able to travel anywhere in Europe without showing my passport. Free movement isn’t about getting access to the country without question, you still have to prove who you are in the first place.
And no offense to Jersey, but it is unlikely to be a major target for international terrorism, the UK already is and, therefore, needs to protect itself as best it can.
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Leah Holmes – “jersey is unlikely to be a major target for international terrorism”, on what basis do you assert this? Jersey backs up Londons economy and as an offshore tax ‘haven’ helps large corporations out of heavy tax penalties. I therefore would think it is potentially a major terrorist target.
I cant see what the big deal is with carrying a passport, if its going to help secure Jersey and the UK why not just go along with it, they dont just come up with these ideas to burden everyone they are for our own good!
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We’ve been getting up the noses of the UK for long enough, as beans we should accept our lot and go back to doing something less antagonistic, we could knit and make calvados and grow spuds again and swear at each other and walk on our lovely beaches and have crazy nights at the Chateau. We’ve been too clever for our own good.
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With respect to #29 Jersey could well be a target for terrorism and to think otherwise is very dangerous.
I was in Bali in October 2005 byt fortunately not close to the carnage. It’s called a soft target with major repercussions and publicity.
Most cities in the UK you can’t get close to major buildings or airports or ports becuase of intense security – they might not stop you but they’ll do your best.
Jersey (still a finacial centre and ‘British’ -you can easily get access to most places and close up (e.g. main marina vandalism with 24 hour non existent security…..).
The publicity of ‘hitting’ a Brit tourist and financial island…..marvelous. I think Jersey has a bit more oomph on the international stage than Bali but the Aussies and Brits felt the impact there. Take security seriously and not so dismisive.
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I think we should make people not from Jersey apply for a visa everytime they leave and enter the Island and charge them for it. That combined with the 12 year rule and the the poor accomadation we give them, should keep them away. I say to hell with it, who needs the UK anyway?
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#30 Seymour, that point is made time and time again by people speaking of folk in the UK don’t even know Jersey exists never mind people elsewhere. If people aren’t that aware it exists it makes it less of a target for anything.
I’m not insulting Jersey, it’s a great place, but while Jersey may be big within the finance sector it’s barely a blip in worldwide politics, culture etc.
It’s not a bad thing to not be a target, it’s a good thing. Jersey could undoubtedly become a target, like anywhere else could but targets of late have been a bit more high profile (as in high profile among the general public not just one sector).
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And #32, I’m hardly being dismissive!
It’s just relative to other places… goodness, didn’t realise people were so desperate for Jersey to be a target!
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And our finance centres are unlikely to be a target given that we’ve screwed up the economy brilliantly ourselves… that’s one that terrorists don’t need to touch for a while, those that really hate the West can just sit back and laugh for the moment!
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Leah – 34, so what you are sayng is if we all keep quiet about Jersey then the terrorists might not be able to work out that we are a target. We could disguise Jersey as a holiday destination and dress all the finance workers in Bermuda Shorts and sunglasses, we could cover the buildings in camaflage and make it look like a holiday resort!
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On the “target for terrorism” topic; I personally believe that Jersey is a very easy target for a terrorist attack. As proved by 9/11 financial institutions are high on the list of targets and Jersey houses a number of high profile financial organisations with equally high profile clients.
Our borders are not rigorously policed and can easily be penetrated; there is also very low awareness with regards to security amongst the business sectors and the general public.
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#25 Pandora’s Hope. You obviously have not applied for a Schengen Visa through the Italian Consulate – they don’t accept postal applications from Jersey.
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jersey is cherry picking again tho I do’nt support this ridiculous notion.
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typicaljersey bloke!
what a great idea! and then your almost non existent tourism industry will really go from strength to strength wont it! i think comparing costs and available facilities within that island most people considering a break there will be queueing up to obtain a visa for a fortnight in the rain with nothing to do day or night! who needs u.k ? I think your island does once again because once the E.U turns the thumbscrews on your financial sector you are going to be facing economic meltdown.
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Its about time Jersey had stricter patrolling of its borders to stop people coming in in the first place. However as we well know most come from the UK don’t they, so we can’t do that can we? I believe because we don’t do this to Uk nationals by default we have to let in all other EU nationals as well due to free movement of EU labour from one country to another. However it is alright to penalise certain Jersey citizens who haven’t got at least one EU grandparents.
It is about time Jersey was either in or out. If in, all are treated the same. If out no more UK or EU nationals can come here unless they qualify on a Australia type immigration scheme. This would then cut down on anyone coming in and disappearing into the local population without anyone allegedly knowing about it. However big business would then have to pay the going rate and not have the ability to reduce wages by employing non local staff. I am all for this but as we well know big business would not like this one little bit.
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In practice I’m not sure these new regulations differ from the old system.
All major airlines now ask for photo ID for passengers regardless of their destination. I have been asked for my passport at Birmingham International by Police several times when traveling back to Jersey.
If the free movement of islanders is in question, please bear in mind that any UK resident can be required to produce identification at any time by a Police Officer under the Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001.
If a senior Police Officer authorises it, compulsory stop and searches can be performed in a designated area for up to 24 hours also.
The right to silence, which is still enshrined in Jersey law has also been diminished, whereby even an innocent person’s reticence can be construed as an attempt to conceal crimes.
Is there any sense then in which Jersey people are treated less fairly than English people or are we being asked to show the same documentation as everyone else?
I think we should see these measures as preventative to avoid the possibility of the island being exploited as any kind of “back door” to the UK but the idea that Jersey people are treated less fairly than English people is a fallacy.
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Sorry nathan but I have to disagree. Having a stamp in my passport and getting hassle at border crossings because of it is not right when it says on the passport a right to move unhindered.
English is not always understood in foreign countries and having to wait whilst one of the border guards rings up big brother HQ to find out why I have this statement in my passport and what it means is just not on I’m afraid.
I know this is what causes me problems as my wife not having this stamp never gets stopped. When is my government going to help me to travel without hinderence in foreign countries? I view this passport as a mickey mouse one as it says EU on it but I am not an EU citizen! Either we come into the EU, so long serving Jersey families get equal treatment, or we are outside and everyone living here has the same stamp once they qualify for residency. All in or all out. However would those from the UK be prepared to get the same treatment when they travel around or is it ok as long as they are unaffected?
As a Jersey person I get fed up with the state of things which invariable disadvantage those with the longest roots here. I believe the state gets away with it because it only affects 5-6,000 people. There is no excuse as far as I am concerned for this. Numbers are not the issue, discrimination is. Would any other “race” have a stamp in their passport different from the majority in any other country in the world? What would happen if say the aborigionals had a stamp in their passport not entitled to live and work in NZ whilst the whites didn’t? There would be public outrage. Not so in good old Jersey.
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i know how you feel adrian.that,s how i was treated years ago before ireland joined the EU i had to fill in forms every time i went abroad and when i came back,even a day trip to france.i remember one time coming back from calais to dover all british had one queue all foreigners another and i was amongst chinese africans and all other races from around the world,and we had to wait till british were cleared first before our turn came with more form filling,this could take up to an hour and we were viewed with disdain and questions like how long do you expect to stay in uk what is your purpose etc this red tape should be sorted pronto
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Have to agree Nathan, it is unfair and smacks of inequality. Jersey-born people with Jersey-born parents and grandparents, are rather conveniently, not classed as a minority even though they presumably are. If you were classed as a minority no doubt everyone would be bending over backwards to help!
Why are minority groups only classed as minority groups when it benefits some politician somewhere?
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What’s the problem? So what, we need a passport to enter the UK?? I would expect any country (or island for that matter) to want full control of who is entering and leaving their borders. Perhaps Jersey should look at strengthening our border controls. We are an island with easy access to drugs and a relatively high crime level for it’s size. Before anyone disagrees then please consider that not all crime is reported and “statistics” can be doctored!
Those opposed should just go back to sleep and stop moaning for the sake of moaning!
The cost of a passport is relatively cheap considering they last 10 years….a taxi to/from the airport is more expensive!
Jersey as a terrorist target?? Of course we are, just like anywhere else in the world. However, we are probably hiding a lot of terrorist money in our banks and trusts so I do not think it would be wise for them to attack us. (we hope)
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