All change?
Wednesday 18th March 2009, 3:00PM GMT.
THE draft Strategic Plan relies too heavily on old policies and does not reflect Jersey’s radically different economic position, according to a group of politicians who are writing an alternative version.
A group of 13 politicians say that despite promises to listen to voices from all over the States Chamber and across the political spectrum, the Council of Ministers are carrying on as if it was business as usual. They want to create an alternative to what they say are plans of continued population growth, over-emphasis on one industry, development of the Waterfront and incursion into the countryside.
In a statement issued yesterday, the group said: ‘It will be catastrophic if the Strategic Plan as currently drafted escapes unscathed and is put forward as the blueprint for Jersey’s future. Some of its underlying policies proved ill-judged, to say the least.’
The States Members who have agreed to work together on the plan are Senator Stuart Syvret and Deputies Bob Hill, Roy Le Hérissier, Judy Martin, Geoff Southern, Shona Pitman, Daniel Wimberley, Montfort
Tadier, Jeremy Maçon, Tracey Vallois, Mike Higgins, Trevor Pitman and Debbie De Sousa.
• Picture: Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur, who has sought the public’s views on the draft plan, pictured on the roof of Cyril Le Marquand House
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typical the usual self publicity seeking rent a mob are at it again
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Opposition is a healthy element to good governance Paul.
You may prefer the unhealthy variety if you wish.
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So one that relied too much on his mother to become a politician, one that thinks only children should vote and not adults, and two that were trying to change the law in their favour when they broke it.
This island and it’s politicians are a joke!
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I’m not a politician, (thank god!), but this is what i propose.
We should have a small committee of 8, chosen by us, that present to us, the islanders, possible changes to Jersey.
These changes are then voted in by us in way of a voting system. So for example, we vote for plans and matters of the island every 2 weeks and have a week to vote on them where we can go into these polling stations from 8am to 9pm. Systems could easily be made available at parish halls. You come in, type a login name and password and then vote for what you want. If you don’t vote, then you don’t have a say on them, that’s your fault. The elderly and people that cannot get to the polling stations can call them in, or people come round to see them so they can vote. That way we, and not these monkeys get to say what happens to our island. Once the votes are in then, the committee of 8 put them into practice. This new system could be put in place and would cost far less than out politicians yearly wages.
The vast majority of the people who write on this forum have much more common sense than all of our politicians. I have absolutely no faith in any of them and feel that our island is going to be run asunder in the next 10 years.
It’s just a thought.
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Or it could actually be a small group reflecting the voices of the public for a change?
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lets hear what the new people have to say.
lets start with a census.
i for one want to know what are the “ill- judged policies”?
and i am sure that i am not alone here.
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Get rid of the useless 13. We would save an easy 500k a year in their salaries.
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Nellie, they NEVER listen to the public. And you know what, they never will.
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In fact Nellie, what have these politicians done so far?
All we have heard from Jeremy in the JEP is the emails between you and Southern. From Southern and Pitman we have seen that they have tried to change the law that they broke. Tadier and his Time4change thing has changed nothing, he has just been seen in the JEP with a blank expression.
Really Daniel Wimberley is the only one who has tried to help the island. This is a total joke!
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Absolutely agree with this!
We are over reliant on the finance industry. Whilst we should look to safeguard jobs, we must face up to the fact that inevitably our advantages as an offshore juresdiction will be diminished (i.e. abolishment of loopholes enabling tax avoidance).
This alternative draft has been proposed by politicians that are willing to listen to the public, and acting to realistically assess the future of the island.
Great news!
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Bernard, it seems like they are doing something now. So why are you complaining?
I think this is a brilliant idea. Someone needs to propose alternative strategies which actually represent the views of Jersey people rather than those of the finance industry.
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Given the uncertain situation it is good to have someone looking at possible alternatives.
The current Plan B is ‘Would the last person to leave please turn out the lights.’
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This is excellent news, the strategic plan as it stands is more of the same, growing population, more flats, more building on green fields, more cars etc.
I am certain if these 13 ruled the island would become a better place.
At the next election maybe a few more questions on the ballet papers on population etc. rather than time changes, as the states haven’t listened.
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One more point:
The island is reliant heavily on one industry which may see huge reductions but the states barely even consider this.
The strategic plan mentions climate change and global warming how many times? NONE, yet this is the biggest problem we have ever faced. As Al Gore put’s it “an Inconvenient truth”.
The masterminds behind the strategic plan ignore things which don’t make them money and require any change at all.
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But can’t you all see that so far they have done nothing! Apart from Syvret of course who has probably done too much!
I agree that something has to be done, but these 13 are nothing but talk and no action!
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To all the skeptics who have made comments… I would like to give an example of how the stragic plan is deficient…
I refer briefly to the section of the Strategic Plan Green Paper published on 3rd March by the Council of Ministers which deals with net inward migration proposals (i.e. population growth)
Mathematical models such as those used in the Green Paper to predict population profiles in the medium to long term are notoriously unreliable. Although these models do provide a useful starting point when considering likely possible scenarios, they must always be treated with extreme caution due to the high level of uncertainty involved.
I note that the mathematical model has been used to predict the declining worker/pensioner ratio that results from, amongst other factors, an ageing society. On the basis of the model predictions, the green paper recommends a net inward migration of around 200 households per annum(i.e. about 430 people)
I believe that there is a fatal flaw in this analysis for the following reasons.
The worker/pensioner ratio predicted by the model is based solely on the predicted age profile of the population. It fails to factor in unemployment figures. No mention has been made of the fact that a proportion of the workers in the worker/pensioner ratio will actually be out of work.
Given the current ecomomic climate this is a very serious omission which throws the whole net inward migration proposals into question.
In conclusion, the argument for increasing the population is flawed because it is based on a model with a high and unspecified degree of uncertainty which fails to factor in projected unemployment figures into the worker/pensioner ratio.
The proposal to increase our population could be harmful to jersey’s future and hence it is only right and proper for politicians to challenge it if, as I have argued, it is based on a faulty premise.
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Oh dear! what can we expect?
Most, if not all, of these politicians thought it made sound sense to throw away £50,000,000 without a realistic and proven back-up plan for waste disposal. One of them is actively promoting giving my (and your) “tax dollar” away to practically everyone he can think of by concocting “precedents” for payments from the States – how will they convince the States to take them seriously in the consideration of how to prioritise our strategic aims over the next 5 years?
Furthermore, the comment that they don’t consider the current strategic planning process inclusive enough is choice! As I understand it, the Council of Ministers stages workshops for States Members on the plan in development and then we get a chance to respond to public consultation on it. Scrutiny also get a look in. Has this alternative group done any of that consultation or do they have a very selective interpretation of “inclusive”? It would be interesting to see how many votes that group got between them to see how much justification they have to say they are able to represent Islanders’ views.
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welcometothejungle – 12 of my useless 13 would be the current council of ministers.
Why the insults when an alternative view is proposed?
One day you might wonder why you didn’t listen.
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Few of them have had the experience that would even understand the Strategic plan and yet they are looking at changing it?
I suppose they need to justify their salary some way!
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Bernard -”I agree that something has to be done, but these 13 are nothing but talk and no action!”
Give them a chance, please. They have learnt that there is a desire for change and that the
struggle for fair representation within the states will be best served through close consultation with the electorate. And results will only come if they work together. Let’s face it, they have a strong, entrenched opposition to fight.
Surely this has to be welcomed? The reason these politicians have been voted in and the likes of key establishment figures like Vibert and De Faye out, is because the general public no longer feel that they are being adequately represented in the States. The ‘my way or the highway’ approach is no longer acceptable in today’s society.
The States have forgotten why they are there, to represent the views of the majority of the electorate. Not to peddle their own agendas.
With the radical changes to the global economic environment that have occurred over the past 6 months, it is no longer feasible to follow the old Strategic Plan. Basically, things have changed since. The very structure of modern day government means that it takes forever and a day for anything to be passed as it has to go through a whole host of committees and scrutiny panels. By the time it is agreed by all, it is out of date.
How many articles on this site have in the past six months gained positive criticism from the general public? Answer; very few.
And why? because we have been discussing issues relevant to yesterday. (Hindsight is a wonderful thing). We need a government that is forward thinking and one that can adapt better to the ever changing challenges that we face today in the modern world.
Gone are the days when the States could rely on the old system of reporting back to the public via snail mail. The internet has speeded things up into real time, and can give you instant feedback whether it be positive or negative. This is a vital tool, and could make policy making far more effective in future. If the States do not embrace modern technology, they will be overtaken by it.
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“But can’t you all see that so far they have done nothing!”
No. I can’t see that at all !
First of all, many of these people have been in the States for about 3 months now. Not exactly a huge amount of time to have a lot done, given the fact that it takes a long time to settle in and get a feel of what is going on and what it is all about.
Secondly, I have been MORE than impressed with how much these people HAVE done in only three months ! They have continuously come up already with questions, propositions, scrutiny, … Bernard & Co, you have either been on another planet or you are blinded by your unconditional faith in “the established powers that should not be ciriticised under any circumstances”.
OK, let’s have a look at all the other people who have been SO incredibly busy already.
Ben Fox : has done diddly-squat for years, gets in with 1 vote and STILL does nothing.
Jacqui Hilton, who came into the footlight a little bit before the elections, stating things had to change and something had to happen : ZILCH !
Angela Jeune, Anne Dupre, Eddie Noel … Other than checking with Philip Ozouf how they should vote … NADA !
The Constables … ah well, they have never been an example of hard work in the States, have they ? I am willing to make an exception for Crowcroft, though, I don’t always agree with him. AH, and Jackson DID suggest we should get to work into town using Le Petit Train ! Yippie !
John Le Fondre : nothing, Anne Pryke : nada. Deafening silence !
And with a few exceptions, our ministers have not exactly been in 5th gear either – some exceptions taken into account. I am no fan of Alan Maclean, but at least he has been trying.
A lot of silent whispers from many others.
Having said that, let me not fall into the same trap as Bernard & Co. Some of these people only got in 3 months ago as well, so let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. Surely they got themselves elected because they wanted to work hard for the people of Jersey. On top of that, often people work very hard backstage. Maybe we should ask them to report regularly to Bernard & Co. for the latter to make sure they know who works hard and who has only a “decorative” function in the states.
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Cyrano, you fail to mention that Southern and Pitman have so far tried to change the law the have admitted breaking and little else. Tadier has done absolutely nothing. The only thing we have heard from Macon was the emails from his mum.
These people are paid large amounts of money, I would expect them to hit the ground running and not take 3 months to settle in! After all, they were all promising change when we were voting for them and now we have to wait for them to settle in. Pathetic!
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Comment 18: If you want an Island with high unemployment and higher taxes to cover the extra burden, I agree your 12 would be a good bunch to have in charge. The ususal crowd with the usual rubbish. They criticise the development and protection of the one industry that keeps us all in jobs and provides workers and the unemployed with a relatively high standard of living, without ever coming up with a viable alternative or even a supplemental industry. These 13 are essenitally proposing spend a load of money by chatting about nothing. Frankly it would be better saved, as would their salaries.
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Yea lets spend 350 million on a make beleive industry.
350 Million spent on safe guarding an industry that has kept this island going is money well spent.
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The fact is that Jersey has NO CHOICE other than to diversify its economy and reduce its dependence on “The One Industry”. When Obama, Brown and Sarkozy implement their plan to shut down the world’s offshore finance centres, and they surely will, Terry Le Seur’s oligarchic, materialistic dreams will lie in tatters…
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before we tar and feather the 13 lets hear what they have to say.
roy le h to say the least strikes me as a intelligent guy and monty is also a intelligent guy.
hopefully we will be hearing somthing sooner than later and prove the doubters wrong.
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Given the rumblings coming from the Financial Times and The Economist, papers not exactly noted for their Marxist leanings, I think the world is going to have a slimmed down and more regulated finance industry in the future.
I don’t think finance is going to leave the island entirely but CDO’s and other fancy instruments are going to be more regulated and quite a few banks are going to rediscover the virtues of Mr Mannering type banking.
The political and financial leaders across much of the west have looked into the fiscal abyss that a dozen or so large banks going down would have created and they did not like what they saw.
Not only that but we are not out of the woods yet, for example there is a lot of bad stuff out in the Middle and Far East and if that goes belly up there will be billions more debt etc for governments to underwrite.
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Whatever
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Very little has been achieved because so much hard work has to go into (unsuccessfully so far unfortunately) trying to block schemes and proposals that are unacceptable to the public and then of course they are outvoted by “block” voting. We cannot expect much change in the right direction until we elect enough forward thinking new States Members to counteract this block voting. This is going to take time and a lot larger voter turnout in future, so bear this in mind in 3 years time.
Our stolen email reflected the public’s viewpoint to oppose TLS as CM so at least we were keeping the faith and trying to take direct action – why do you think we caught so much flak? The OBC don’t like anyone standing up to them and have more clout than us.
It is completely untrue to say that all 13 are opposed to the Finance Industry, most realise it is essential at present but that we are far too reliant on it and desperately need to diversify – again, forward thinking!
If anyone out there has a briliant idea for a successful industry, please contact any of the 13 – you will get all the backing possible from them. They aren’t there to come up with the ideas, they are there to support yours!
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Nellie Macon, why are you not in the states instead of your son?
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“They aren’t there to come up with ideas”.
Phew, that’s a relief. I thought they were just incapable of doing so!
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Nellie
“If anyone out there has a briliant idea for a successful industry, please contact any of the 13″
What a joke – you might as well have a suggestions box in the Royal Square. This about sums up the intellectual poverty of this group of grumblers – they will rant that they don’t like what the government does but do not have any credible, thought out, costed alternatives.
As for that old mantra of “diversification, diversification” – like many others I have no desire to swap my well paid job in finance for an insecure, menial job picking spuds or serving in a cafe.
Finance has been amazing for Jersey – the island’s infrastructure is excellent, our schools provide an extraordinarily good education and most of our housing stock, States or otherwise, is in very good condition – no other industry could deliver this.
As for the future – Jersey will continue to thrive as a finance centre, because it does it very well – better and safer than London or New York anyway.
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Well said Mike.
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Re: Comment 30
Easy – the Macons looked at who was the most likely to be voted in by the public. By targeting the ‘youth’ vote i.e. 16 & 17 year olds, young Jeremy was the chosen one. Also I am willing to bet that Nellie already has a good job whereas Jeremy is unlikely to be able to pick up £44,000 in any other job at his age with his (lack of) experience.
The strategy only just worked though as young Jeremy only got in with the lowest mandate in the history of elections in Jersey (24% of votes cast in St Saviour number 1 if memory serves).
Let’s face it though Bernard, it is obvious that Nellie is still pulling the strings!
Re: Comment 29
Nellie – Stop claiming that the hapless 13 represent the ‘public’. I am a Jersey born voter and taxpayer and I agree with precisely nothing that this group has said (or done for that matter).
I am a member of the public and the COM schemes and proposals are not unacceptable to me.
I am a member of the public and I wanted TLS as CM (I even e-mailed all the States Members I had voted for to express my view).
Finally the Finance Industry itself is already well diversified and there are hundreds of non-Finance businesses (and charities) that benefit both directly and indirectly from it so lets do all we can to protect it rather than dream up a completely new industry.
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I 2nd that Mike!
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To be fair to the 13 it is not only them who suffer from a paucity of ideas but the CoM as well.
Reading the Strategic Plan reveals a mindset that assumes that Jersey in 2035 will be the same as today but with more people.
Energy, food and water supply security, climate change etc are all ignored as issues despite the fact that they will almost certainly have huge effects.
The possible movement of the centre of gravity of the world financial system away from Europe and the USA as India and China assert their growing economic muscle is not even mentioned!
And the answer to an aging population is to import more people to pay their pensions, not a thought is given to what will happen when those people grow old in their turn.
A suggestion box in the Royal Square?
Cracking idea, it would generate more fresh ideas than the States!
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Recent events have clearly shown the danger of being reliant solely on one industry – many of us sincerely hope finance will continue but nothing is certain in this life.
Alternatives do not necessarily have to be “menial” jobs (although as the daughter of a farmer I have done my share of potato picking in my youth and don’t consider this type of labour “menial”, rather extremely hard work! I now vastly prefer my role working in finance too – just like you Mike R and definitely would not like to have to go back to farm work).
However there are many Islanders who do not wish to or cannot work in finance and what alternatives do they have? What about our students who cannot get jobs if they want to come back here? Also if we lose our jobs in finance what are we to do? It takes years to build up a thriving industry so the sooner we get cracking the better.
States Members are there to assist the public in their private and commercial endeavours – they are not entrepreneurs – otherwise you get vested interests and conflicts of interest. Where the wisdom comes in, is in seeing the worth of propositions and assisting in overcoming problems (in particular bureaucracy), whilst ensuring the public is safeguarded in every way ie against scams or health hazards and even perhaps helping in gaining funding if possible.
Unfortunately what we have seen for decades is a government that has refused to consider anything other than finance and has itself presented insurmountable obstacles to excellent ideas whilst ensuring that other industries have been allowed to die through lack of investment and encouragement.
So don’t knock the 13 – they’re there to look out for you and we need a lot more of them!
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Unfortunately for us Nellie, the elitists in our government don’t listen to us and the 13 seem at first glance to be a waste of time. That is the predicament that we are currently in.
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Reality is we are too dependent on finance with the likely collapse of the local economy when it goes.
Reality is no one in government is really interested in the small person prefering to keep sweet with big business and the rich, hence GST which will eventually reach 10-20% delete as applicable to the given economic situation.
The result will be a further errosion of local infrastructure as wages are cut and costs are cut. It can be no other way. Also a continual increase in poor migrant labour will further exasibate the situation as they will take more valuable resources like free doctors and dental treatment at the hospital as they are unable or unwilling to pay for treatment. Is this why people now have to wait for hours at the A&E department no matter at what time of day or night they go there? If it isn’t there are an awfull lot of people having accidents these days and maybe social security should look into why this is so.
Also these migrants will have to be housed by the state at some time in the future won’t they? The rich and big business won’t be paying these costs though they benefit directly from this situation reference reducing wages and conditions. However this burden will fall on to the rest of us whom the government decides to ignore. Nice situation to be in isn’t it? Is this what they call democracy?
The future as I see it is a gradually collapse of Jersey as we know it to a future time when the indigenous population will have been driven out by extortionate prices for property and Jersey becomes a place for the super rich to put their money and live. These people will avail themsleves of the services of very poor migrant labour a bit like Kuwait does now. This migrant labour will be used as and when required and got rid of by deportation when not needed.
Yes I believe that Jersey has a bright future for the select few who get every help and assistance from our locally elected government, as they don’t want to upset them or frighten them away. However what about the rest of us?
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34. TBM
Jeremy did not get in with the lowest mandate in the history of elections in Jersey. He got 448 of 1856 which is 24%.
Where as Tracy Vallois got 227 of 1373 which just over 20%.
Ben Fox got in with 698 of 7770 which is just less then 9%.
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For those of you that support the CoM, maybe it is about time you thought of others for a change?
I believe this group are only interested in big business and the rich, the rest are incidential to this. This is why the majority of people won’t vote. They are sick and tired of the same old rubbish these people keep peddling.
As far as I am concerned:-
1.The CoM don’t listen to the majority.
2.They will not put the majority first.
3.They are mainly big business people or rich themselves.
4.They are only interested in maintaining things as they are and not for real social change to help everyone.
5.They go ahead with unwanted projects that could yet bankrupt Jersey ref incinerator and finance quarter.
6.They waste money on worthless objects like a brass tree whereas a MRI scanner had to be paid for by private donations.
7.They love developers.
8.They aren’t really interested in the environment.
9.They are allowing unchecked immigration with the resultant problems this will bring, e.g. higher crime levels, more social housing, pushing up prices etc etc.
10.They have no interest in competition in areas of the economy where there should be some, e.g travel to and from Jersey.
11.They are happy for big business to use migrant labour to suppress wages to further increase profits for the select few.
12.They don’t have a proper welfare system so that those needing assistance often don’t get it and those who shouldn’t be getting help get it.
13.They aren’t controlling rent prices allowing profitering by landlords and then they waste public money on paying these landlords to house these people.
14.They have all but destroyed tourism.
15.They have all but destroyed agriculture.
16.They are destroying Jersey’s culture and history.
17.They have made Jersey dependent on an industry over which more and more questions are being asked.
18.They are out of touch.
19.They are arrogant.
20.Certain members of this group have embarassed Jersey both locally and internationally with the way they have conducted themselves in front of the media.
If people are happy with this state of affairs by all means vote for more of the same. I am not and I resent paying GST just so that big business and the rich don’t get “upset”.
I think it is about time morals and ethics entered the arena and if anyone gets put out by this they should go and ply their trade elsewhere. It is indeed time for a change for the better, for everyone, and not just a select few.
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Adrian : the point is that we are not offered a viable alternative to the current CoM. In my view the current crop of policians is dangerously underqualified and uninspiring. Despite everything you list, I still know that I would much prefer to have TLS, Ozouf or Le Marquand etc representing Jersey’s interests on the international stage than Macon, Tadier or Southern etc.!
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Our government isn’t perfect but I know of none that is. Not sure if your living in the same Island as me but let’s straighten that list a little:
Immigration isn’t left ‘unchecked’ and they do not push up prices as they are not locally qualified and therefore only affect the properties ‘immigrants’ can rent.
Big businesses do not depress wages – we have a minimum wage they have to pay.
These developers they ‘love’ pay vast amounts of money to the tax payer to lease plots.
We have an excellent welfare system – don’t know many other social housing that’s as new or as well maintained as our stock with sky tv and broadband thrown in.
Tourism was destroyed by factors outside of Jersey’s control such as a change in market forces and boom in cheap airlines taking the masses to their all inclusive nightmares.
Agriculture just died – we moved with the times and developed an industry that generates 10 times more income for Jersey than growing Jersey Royals.
GST is about the people of Jersey paying for their own public services and not a company based in Jersey to ‘avoid’ tax which everyone keeps moaning about.
Our history is well maintained – millions have been spent maintaining fortresses and other sites of historic interest all paid for by the dreaded finance industry.
Culture changes over time… Jersey was completely different 100 years ago and it will be completely different again in 100 years time – it’s called moving with the times
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Adrian – Brilliant comment – agree with you 100%.
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Welcometothejungle I have to disagree with you I’m afraid I don’t trust P.O. or L.M. TLS had an appalling Channel4 interview the other week. If people around the world see that they will be wondering what is going on over here.
Joker basic economics says if you alter demand upwards and the supply is fairly static prices will go up. Thus if more people come to Jersey they will affect the demand for property as after their alloted time they will be wanting to buy here.
Immigration is unchecked hence we don’t even know what the real population level is. Anyone can come into Jersey from the UK and stay. Many do and never return they will then buy property after 12 years, helping push up prices as do the J cats and 1.1k’s with their unlimited supplies of money.
Big business always cut wages and they do it by using cheaper migrant labour just look around town now and you will see what I mean. We only recently had a minimum wage brought in, before this anything went. Also look at the fullfillment industry, a lot of their labour is non local.
Developers build properties and sell them on for a very hansome profit meaning locals and others need to borrow £500,000 upwards just to buy a rabbit hutch.
Tourism was destroyed as Jersey prices went through the roof, why pay to come here when you can go to Florida for less? The states should have got to grips with this years ago but failed.
Agriculture has been left to die off. When world famines set in we will regret this short sighted decision to take the easy option.
Finance has caused lots of problems for Jersey as a whole and has made a few very rich. It has done nothing for the environment or the population levels which have gone sky high since it all started. I also believe that ethically and morally it is bankrupt but since it brings in money people are happy to turn a blind eye.
GST is here because the rich and big business can have an easy ride, so that they aren’t upset and leave for elsewhere. I see GST as a tax on the poor so as not to upset those better able to pay more tax. This is immoral and unjust as far as I am concerned.
Jersey history is not always well maintained, things are often destroyed because of development and the need to maximise profits. We know of places deliberately knocked down before anything could be done to protect them.
Also its culture is being destroyed by massive waves of immigration. Does everyone, everywhere have to live in a boring, bland Anglo-American monoculture type of place with nothing to distinguish it from anywhere else?
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Adrian and Nellie, if your that unhappy with the island, leave.i’m going to
this island hasn’t had a creditable government since politicians decided to pay them selves a salary and hasn’t had an effective opposition since the demise of the old committee system.
accept it or go.
and before Nellie champions her son again, ALL politicians need to be elected on an Island wide basis,in other words scrap the parish deputies, that will weed out most of the above 13 and those that are left will be able to speak for Jersey and run Jersey PLC effectively.
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Our States of Jersey should be seen as a business. People not working properly or trying to tarnish the business should be sacked. I feel the old guard have lost their way and the new breed haven’t got a clue!
I remember in the 60s when our politicians were not paid a salary, they only had their phone calls paid for when doing states business. It was in theory run by successful businessmen. Nowadays they will allow anyone into the states. It is about time we looked at the island as a business as it was seen in the 60s.
I have no faith whatsoever in the 13 politicians. They have not proved themselves in or out of the states, and to be honest with you I am not willing to see what they come up with in the next 2 years. For example, how democratic would you call trying to change the law for your own needs to get you out of trouble, (Pitman and Southern). Or has anyone questioned Montfort Tadier about the demonstration with daffodils last year, was that used to get him into the states as it did nothing else. And how much exactly does Daniel Wimberley know about politics when he used to rent out bicycles to holidaymakers. This just proves that they will let absolutely anyone into the states.
I think we need a radical look at our politicians and separate the wheat from the chaff.
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Paul people need to stand up to these people. Why should our island be ruined by these sort of people just because they are too greedy? Jersey is going to wrack and ruin and someone needs to say enough is enough.
I never will accept greed I’m afraid. Times will change, it is only a matter of how quickly. All the world is in a big mess, things are collapsing even though governments keep talking things up. If you read between the lines you can see the writing on the wall. What is happening in Jersey is but a small snippet of what is going on worldwide.
People need to wake up and realise that we are on the road to nowhere but famine, war and death. Greed only has one outcome and that is destruction of the planet and mankind. Capitalism only works as it plays on peoples greed factor. The few like things as they are as they benefit from this. However long term it is unsustainable. The few are conning the rest into accepting things as they are. However they will be nowhere to be seen when things get out of hand. It is all smoke and mirrors now, however too many people are ignorant of reality. I do hope people wake up before it is too late.
Even money itself is a joke yet people can’t see it! As is work and tax, all rigged for the select few to benefit from. The rest are just used until no longer needed when they are jettisoned to face their fate. These are my own observations on things in this capitalistic world. I just laugh at the stupidity of it.
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Paul – I’m not unhappy with the Island – just the way it’s being run and the way Islanders are being treated.
I am unhappy with the way we do not look after our own people and by that I mean those that have shown a commitment to the Island, work hard, are expected to pay ever increasing amounts of tax and struggle with incredible rents or mortgages.
I believe we can do better, so I shall stay here, keep up the good fight and support those who are trying to protect Jersey and its people. Hopefully,we will eventualy make a difference before we end up with an overpopulated concrete jungle.
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Adrian
Immigration is not unchecked. Every manifest into Jersey is checked. You can’t just go to social security or the hospital and claim benefits. Every worker has an ITIS and a social security number – being abused by some but every system is fallible – but then who wants to pay for more civil servants to check? If there are a few illegals they can’t use our public services anyway – a number so small it’s not worth losing sleep over.
If, as you say, immigrants’ wages are so suppressed by low wages and big business, they’ll never be able to afford to buy property anyway.
Florida wasn’t anywhere near as cheap to fly 20 years ago… that’s not Jersey’s fault. It’s a result of cheaper flights facilitated by technology allowing economies of scale. More destinations and much larger planes means they and other countries enjoy economies of scale regarding travel costs – whole point the 747 was invented. Now lets burst a myth – ‘Jersey is comparatively expensive with Euro cities’. Not true. I travel to Europe quite a lot. It might be cheaper to get there but once you are it certainly isn’t any cheaper. Most Euro (including eastern) cities now charge London prices especially when you take the FEX into account. People make the mistake of comparing the cost of living and the cost of being a visitor – the two are completely different. Jersey IS more expensive than Costa Del ‘Same’ but do we want that?
So how is this solved – States spend millions to subsidise expensive flights? Develop some weather machine to guarantee sun and develop the whole of the north coast into an all inclusive complex? Build massive hotels like in Costa Del Same and have rows of competing similar looking sky scrapers along St Aubin? These are the ingredients to achieve economies of scale and cheap prices you’re after.
Yes finance has made a few very rich (a lot of Jersey born people included). Finance has also boosted the average wealth of most locals and no locals alike in finance or not, owning property or not. Why do you think locals have been developing their hotels/land to make way for development demanded on the back of the finance industry? Think of how many local firms rely on the back of it. You only made that comment because you’re anti capitalist – that’s fair enough but at least admit that is the case. This doesn’t mean to say money hasn’t been wasted by those in charge but to deny the average person is not better off is not true.
GST is there so businesses don’t avoid paying tax in their own country and yes leave for elsewhere leaving us with a peasant economy and mass unemployment. Those poor enough receive additional income support to compensate.
Cultures everywhere are changing by immigration. Humans are free to travel and I for one think it makes the place more interesting than being a purely insular Island. The alternative is for no one to travel anywhere and for us to all close our boarders to anything new. This place has been affected by immigration (hence we speak English but have a native language amd all our roads have French names etc) for thousands of years and will always be distinguishable – just go for a cliff path walk one day and see.
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The thought of having this bunch in charge realy makes me think TLS was the best choice.I agree with Welometothejungle 42
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With all due respect to Senator le Main but before he became a States memebr he used to rent out cars to holidaymakers from a little kiosk down on the docks.
They don’t just let anyone in to the States, they are all elected by the people of Jersey.
I have been watching the States for around twenty five years now and I must admit we had some flaky members in the old days including a few who seldom attended.
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#47 Bernard… I can think of nothing worse that a place run by ‘successful businessmen’. Such people often know little about what life is like for the majority and some go on to become unsuccessful businessmen when their corruption or ineptitude is found out!
One of the smartest men I know is a farmer. Not only is he a self-made millionaire through sheer hard work and intelligence he has a ridiculous amount of knowledge about the law and the economy. He chooses to be a farmer because it’s what he loves.
Don’t assume people are smarter because they are ‘successful businessmen’ as often you’ll find that they aren’t that smart and their staff have kept them right all the way! I have had two ‘successfull businessmen’ bosses who were unbelievably stupid, I came in, took over and made the businesses successful but was called an ‘Administrator’ with a salary to match, how laughable. I left both and sure enough their businesses ceased to trade shortly after. But people still believe that they are good businessmen!
A mix of people and a mix of backgrounds is a far preferable way to form a Government.
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