States workers in 3.2% pay rise deal
Wednesday 25th March 2009, 2:58PM GMT.
THE 1,500 States and parish manual workers have overwhelmingly accepted a 3.2 per cent pay deal.
After months of negotiations and threats of industrial action, about 70 per cent of those who voted accepted the offer from the States side.
The results were announced yesterday. Unite union official Nick Corbel (pictured) said that just under 1,000 members took part in the ballot. He said that they not only accepted the offer, but also rejected taking industrial action.
The pay deal runs from June last year until June this year and means that negotiations between the two sides will restart next month after the end-of-March inflation figure is published.
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Why are we not surprised – toothless wonder comes to mind!!!
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What was the inflation level for the year? I bet it was more than 3.2%. Add in the cost of GST and the real figure is probably nearer 7%. Anyone who doesn’t get the cost of living each year is getting a wage cut. Is this fair when big business does so well over here?
I blame the states for not controlling inflation, it is above what it should be. GST has done nothing to help either except make those in the middle downwards even poorer. However the rich are yet again fairly well unaffected by all this. No wonder they like living in Jersey.
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What’s a pay rise?
3.2% in this climate is really good, I don’t expect to get anything.
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Keith no one ever gets a pay rise. This 3.2% is in real terms @4% cut in their wages. If you don’t get anything you wages are being cut by 7% this year. I would expect to maintain my wages and why not? Why should wages be reduced every year? Is a person’s labour worth less and less with time? I can’t believe that people just accept less every year without comment. No wonder big business does so well over here.
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Pay rise? It is outrageous! In current economic downturn they should be happy to keep jobs. I lost my job partially because of the high contributions for States’ manual workers.
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Adrian 2. Read or watch the world news. Business is not doing well globally, never mind in Jersey. Lucky States Workers to have what are reasonably secure jobs and even luckier States Workers to have a pay rise when all around are people facing redundancy and/or pay cuts.
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Adrian.
RPI for 2008 was 3.2% and decreased 2% in the last quarter of 2008. Therefore there will be a further decrease in RPI between December 08 and June 09 in the current climate meaning these guys effectively will get near 6% in real terms. Why do you think the union only recently excepted the deal of 3.2% and not the 7% they were after for the last year? Because they know this fact too!
The States have a grip on inflation – it has been lower than the UK’s over the last year and has on averaged tracked it over the last 20 years.
P.s GST is only inflationary for 2008 provided people do not get an increase to cover for it in 2008. If they do then it will become inflationary year on year.
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Astonished expat if you don’t get the cost of living each year you are having your wages reduced in real terms. What ever the cost of living is (which is beyond the workers control) should be applied to wages to maintain their living standards at the agreed rate. Would anyone in their right mind work for a company that cut wages each year? Poverty beckons for these sort people. Job stands for Just Over Broke to those who are aware of what is going on.
Chris they are not getting a pay rise as they are at -7% and only getting 3.2% towards this. This is not a pay rise. Also others should not belittle fellow workers who get better conditions than them they should aim to get to the same level. All you are doing is playing into the rich and big businesses’ hands by attacking fellow workers. The workers should stick together against those wishing to push down wages to maximise their profits.
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Adrian. You seem to be missing the obvious point that we are in a recession! I along with many others did not receive a pay rise this year but actually feel OK about this as I can at least say that I still have a job. I have no doubt that there are some companies which would go bust if they had to increase their staff’s wages this year.
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I haven’t been keeping my eye on the ball with the States Members – what pay rise did they all get? Maybe allowing competition against Le Riches et al, would go some way to keeping the cost of living down. Was a reason ever given for not permitting Lidls, Aldi etc., to trade in the Island?
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joker as you are well aware the RPI varies monthly unfortunately when cost of living is discussed it has inevitably fallen on themonthe with the lowest RPI rate. I know this as a company I used to work for set the month as March and the number of times it mysteriously fell to a lower level in March was unreal. However this was the figure always used as the cost of living when in actual fact it was in reality maybe 2% below the rest of the year!
I would agree that the RPI does vary therefore the fairest way would be to average out each months RPI figures to get a cost of living figure. However I don’t believe that businesses (employers) would allow this as it would mean there would be no way of reducing the payment as they can do now.
I don’t see where you get your 6% figure from as GST is 3% and they ARE ONLY GETTING 0.2% above this! This is not a 6% pay rise.
The States haven’t got a grip on prices over here. If they did we wouldn’t be paying double what we should for travel off island and we wouldn’t be paying 17.5% above UK prices!
GST is inflationary for every year as it is 3% every year that you pay not just for this year. You also haven’t been given 3% to cover for this extra cost. This means in real terms your wages have fallen to around 97% in value this year without talking into account the cost of living figure which could easily be up to 10%.
Also when times are good no one gets any extra so it is a bit disingenious to use this as an excuse as far as I am concerned. Mark you misunderstand what the words pay rise mean. This is when you get promoted and you get a real rise in wages. A cost of living payment applied to wages is not a payrise as it only balances the books out to counter the effects of inflation.
As per companies going bust they always will and they will always scare people that if they have to pay a fair wage they will go under. This is blackmail as far as I am concerned. I would say to employers pay a constant wage as agreed on commencement of employment this is only just. I believe unfortuantely inflation is used as a cover to effect a real term cut in wages. Businesses are not daft and they know how to get away with things. This is one good example as far as I am concerned.
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Adrian it’s not that I don’t understand the point you are making but a pay rise of 3.2% is still a pay rise ( an increase in earnings ) the erosion of it’s value by the current economic situation GST etc are not the employers fault and indeed they too face rising costs.
I don’t mind not getting a pay rise and am happy to have a job. Employers will be looking to get rid of dead wood and troublemakers as the recession deepens and I’ll be keeping my mouth firmly shut.
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Adrian – you cannot add the 3% GST to the inflation figure of 3.2% to come to your rounded-up 7%.
All inflation figures from June 2008 onwards already include the impact of GST so you cannot add it twice.
Also you cannot add the full 3% of GST to everyone’s cost of living figure because not all household expenditure is subject to GST. Arguably the biggest outlay for all people is their rent/mortgage payments and these were not subject to GST.
A rise of 3.2% in the current economic climate on manual worker salaries that are very generous compared to similar private sector jobs and public sector jobs elsewhere is an excellent result for the manual workers. The sensible ones amongst them (over 700) obviously realise this which is why they voted in favour of the deal.
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Keith please don’t think of the 3.2% as a pay rise it is not. Let me reverse engineer this in a different way.
Say you get employed in a new job. Let us say for arguments sake your annual salary is £100. I know this isn’t a real figure but let’s just use it for arguments sake.
So you are paid £100 per year. In this example we live in a place where we haven’t got inflation.
So next year you would still expect to be paid £100 right? However for some reason your employer arbitarily decides to reduce your wages to £97 for the coming year. You are told times is hard and they might go bust if they don’t do this. However this happens every year even in good times. How long before you earn virtually nothing?
GST you say is not the employers fault. I say it is. What type of people run big business, poor people or very rich people? Answer very rich people. Some of these people are in the top 100 richest people in Jersey paying on average £80,000 tax each. They won’t pay more because they have told the government that if they don’t get what they want they will go elsewhere. The government believes them and consequently has to bring in GST to cover the shortfall, caused by reduced taxes, from the rich, and big business, which in real terms are one and the same thing as far as I am concerned.
So it is the employers fault in my opinion. Next we come to rising costs. Yes it will cost them more if raw materials go up, as it will cost the workers more to buy the products and goods from these businesses. However big business doesn’t lose out as it just simply passes on these costs to you and me the consumer. However they then decide that since they cannot cut costs anywhere else they will hit the weakest link i.e. the workers. So the workers as a cost factor don’t become more expensive like all the other costs but stay the same. In real terms beecause everything else has gone up workers costs have fallen.
You might be quite happy to be heading towards poverty for the sake of saying you have a job. However this is immoral and unfair. Also should it become necessary for you to lose your job you will still lose it regardless of how good you have been. Yes you are quite right employers will be looking to get ride of anyone who rocks the boat. However this is wrong and I believe it is economic blackmail and threats shouldn’t be allowed in a caring society. Yes dead wood should be removed, but from what I have witnessed in previous jobs, the worst dead wood is usually at the top. However this isn’t the place from whence cuts are made.
I take it you are scared of your employer and daren’t speak as you see things incase you upset them and they give you the boot? If this is the case then this is very sad is it not?
TBM you are correct with reference to mortgages and in real terms GST has an inflation rate of more like 1.8-2%. However 2%+3.2% = 5.2% does it not? This is required just to balance the books and maintain the status quo.
However you have forgetton to mention that the cost of living calculations do not take into account mortgages or house prices. So any inflation here is overlooked. And why might that be I hear you ask? I believe the answer is that if it were included inflation would be more than likely in the order of 10%! This I believe is the true inflation level over here not the paltry 3.2% use to control wages with.
So on these things above, all in all, do you really think 3.2% is a good deal? I would call it a very generous offer by the workers to the employers so that they can keep their jobs and help their employers increase their profits even further. Excellent business sense and I believe this is why capitalism favours the few to the detriment of the majority.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Tories out there will be chocking on their drinks when they read this. However this is how I view things, with an analytical eye. I am not taken in by any of the spin put out by certain groups out there, about how workers are very lucky to have jobs, and how bad it is for employers having to employ staff. The reality is most workers are employed to make their bosses rich, pure and simple, nothing else counts. Employers don’t generally give jobs to workers because they feel sorry for them, or they think they are nice people.
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Adrian – welcome to modern business, any additional payment is by definition a pay rise.
Having spent 8 years continously unemployed in the 80′s in Britain I know what it means to not have a job. You say I am scared of my employer – I say I have a realistic grasp of the current economic climate.
Mate there’s how it should be, and there’s how it is.
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You aren’t grasping the situation, if your wages were cut every year as in my example would you put up with it? I suggest not, so why do people put up with this? I can’t put this any simpler than to say you are being conned as are others into accepting this as a pay rise as it is not! A pay rise is a rise above the cost of living figure e.g. a promotion would be seen as getting a pay rise. This is simple economics why can’t people understand the significance of this?
So you are happy to be taken advantage of then are you?
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Some interesting comments here, the simple fact is good house keeping by the States,3.2% and that’s all chaps, thats fair in my book.
In this current climate,short term pain for a bit of long term gain, ie job security. I have accepted that I will get no “Pay Rise” this year, but I still have a job . The private sector would not of supported the public workers if they sought industrial action, a simple fact! You can dress real term pay rises up in all the fancy clothes you want to,as some have, it’s tough at the moment and friends of mine have lost jobs and are unable to pay mortgages etc I know which I would prefer.
We are in totally unchartered waters here in Jersey with the economic crisis and people have to be realistic, as the public workers have been in accepting the offer. It really is that simple!
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Adrian – having re read your posts I think the sticking point here is our interpretation of what a pay rise is. I consider it to be an increase in my monthly salary ( and I think a dictionary would back me up ). Your interpretation appears to be having more disposable income after costs.
I don’t consider the two to be related as there are many variables affecting the cost of living, not just take home pay.
Not wishing to monopolise this thread I will post no further comment and hope we can agree to disagree.
I do understand the point you are making but whilst in an ideal world it is how things should be, that’s not how it is.
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I think you guys are getting mixed up.
Keith – for you a pay rise is an increase in pay, simple enough.
Adrian for you it’s being better off after said increase.
In my opinion Keith is technically right as if you are taking home more money you’ve had a pay rise, even if the money is worth less.
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Sorry guys I was only trying to make people think about things. I have used the example of no inflation and then wages being reduced every year from when you start employment, to prove my point, but still people can’t see it. I believe there is no actual difference because the end result is the same, less money in your pocket. If people are happy with this state of affairs and think it is right, so be it.
However I don’t think it is right to cut people’s standard of living year in year out as it can only result in poverty. If people think this is good thats their call. I also have to laugh when people throw in the recession card. When times were good no one was getting above the cost of living!
People need to realise that they are being used and to stand up for their rights and real worth, I am sure no one would put up with this state of affairs in any other field of their lives, so why should this be different here?
I believe ethics and morals are good standards to follow, it is when these are overlooked in the rush for profit that problems evolve. Just look at the state of the world economy. This is down to people blindly going with the flow. Why should they then get upset when they have no pension, or savings, or jobs etc? I would have to say it was self inflicted and down to personal greed, especially by those at the top of the money tree.
This is the result up putting up with things because “they are as they are”. Just because something is as it is, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be changed. Does anyone really think this is a good way to do things in the 21st century? Remember if things had been blindly accepted because “they were as they were” in the 18th century we would stil have slavery wouldn’t we? Hopefully this clarrifies things for people and maybe makes them think on this topic which affects everyone’s standard of living and future asperations.
The cost of living is set by rising prices in an economy, wages generally only follow behind this trend so if there were no inflation wages would not need to be increased. Yes supply and demand do have some effect in the labour market as well. Unfortunatley the two are related Keith because if your wages didn’t follow inflation trends you would still be earning a penny a day for your work. How far do you think you would get on this amount today?
Mal Icious I am on about maintaining one’s spending power NOT increasing it, hence cost of living needs to be awarded every year to do this. Anything about the cost of living is an increase in spending power and hence an actual pay rise in real economic terms, which surely is what what one means when one talks in terms of money and wages?
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