‘We need zebra crossings’
Saturday 28th March 2009, 9:58AM GMT.
RESIDENTS of St Aubin are campaigning for zebra crossings amid fears that pedestrians in the village are under threat from speeding motorists.
A petition organised by the St Aubin Residents’ Association was presented to parish Constable and Transport Minister Mike Jackson yesterday, calling for new safety measures. It has been signed by around 500 people.
The campaigners want to see one crossing created at the bus stop between Matisse hairdressers and the parish hall and one just along the road between the bank cash dispenser and the corner of Checkers Xpress.
Murray Norton, who is on the association committee, said: ‘The association was formed last year and for a long time we have been looking at ways of improving safety in the village.’
• Picture: St Aubin residents, including Murray Norton and Margi Holland Prior (third and fourth from right) take their petition to the Transport Minister over the road. Picture by David Ferguson (00654778)
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Echo’s of recent media coverage on the coast road outside M&S.
Speeding motorists? I thought this was a 30mph zone!!!
Or once again, is the motorist the easy target for the pedestrians not looking before crossing the road.
Time the green cross code is taught again in our schools & parents!
Stop trying to make this a nanny state.
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I know let’s have zebra crossings every fifty yards on all major roads that will slow us down!!!
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The highway is free to all, motorist and pedestrians, so let’s share it. As a motorist I say give the pedestrian a crossing. But enforce the law; make pedestrian use the crossing provided.
Today, pulling out onto a busy roundabout, I had to brake to avoid a jogger nogyiation the roundabout, agaist the flow of the traffic!
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I have a big car but the elderly and children who are most vulnerable on the roads have no protection from speeding maniacs on mobiles. Sadly though lawyers try to keep the police inside fighting paperwork not crime.
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If people stuck to the speed limit I can’t see the need for a crossing, why don’t the police target speeding motorists?
As soon as a few speeding motorists are facing parish hall enquiries people would soon slow down.
Of course this won’t help the sleepwalkers who walk in front of traffic and expect cars to stop.
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New Zebra (i.e. non light controlled)Crossings are a rarity now on the mainland.
This is because they are so dangerous.
Just imagine Super Courteous Jersey Motorist
indulging in the misguided habit of stopping for pedestrians on the opposite side of the road and having suitably distracted the victims, waving them into the path of an oncoming car.
This is a frequent cause of injury accidents and rear-end shunts at crossings. In the case of the latter, Courteous Motorist is of course entirely blameless when it comes to the insurance claim. That’s if he even realises his involvement!
Also there is a popular belief that lifting one foot as if starting to cross confers an automatic requirement for cars to stop. There is a burden of responsibilty on the pedestrian to assess the wisdom of attempting to cross at a particular moment.
Even the type of Pelican crossing that goes red for cars immediately when usage is light is dangerous as overconfident pedestrians press these and walk without a pause. I have noticed that this anomaly has been disabled in some locations.
I particularly noticed this occurring at the crossing between Beaumont and Bel Royal.
Pedestrian refuges are often sufficient as they tend to slow traffic anyway and also prevent swerving towards conflicting traffic. Nevertheless the over courteous are often unaware that the Highway Code treats central refuges as a break in the crossing and will wave
people across a section of road which is really
none of his business.
We like it that way and are proud of our drivers even though their courtesy can sometimes be dangerous. Eh Mulluv?
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We also need pedestrians who are not distracted by things like people taking photographs and who look in all the directions from which danger might be coming.
(See article picture above)
Still, our friend in the wheel chair will cop the brunt of it. How many of our disturbed children are that way because of being pushed out into the traffic in their buggies?
Must feel like being in the front seat of a Tiger Moth and hoping that the pilot did up his seat belt before starting the aerobatics.
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Hear hear Mr Bougourd!
On a related point, can someone please explain why there are so many crossings in Jersey where there is no way drivers can see pedestrians approaching the crossing until the final moment? Examples include the crossings at the bottom of Beresford Street, beside Bean Around the World, at the bottom of Hill Street, etc. There are many more.
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This is a tourist spot with no safe means of crossing that stretch of road. Yes there is an island in the middle but there is a blind bend and its down right dangerous. Unfortuantely there will always be speeding motorists and there will always be people crossing the road who dont look where they are going. Just throw a couple of Zebra Crossings and and problem solved. 1 / 18th of the Island have voted for it, so its viable. So stop moaning and just let them have it! I personally think they should reduce the speed limit along this stretch of road to 15MPH.
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there was recently a zebra crossing put near bean around the world coffee shop and do you know how many near misses i’ve experiences in cars or motorbikes with my friends driving? It’s ridiculous the amount of kids that just run over a zebra crossing without looking and sometimes a car travelling at 20mph is going too fast to slam on the breaks because a teenager thinks its funny to jump out in front of nowhere.
In europe the zebra crossing is just an advisory place to cross – it’s not mandatory for cars to stop there so children are a bit more careful… zebra crossings lead to careless predestrians and I for one am against them. Pelican crossings are the way to go!
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Actually it’s the car driver who is responsible for anticipating the moves of a pedestrian onto a zebra – check out you highway code. If in your driving test you do not stop when someone is at the curb at a zebra you fail your test. Therefore when approaching a zebra (the flashing lights give it away) the car driver should check to see whether anyone might be approaching the zebra and slow down accordingly in case you need to stop.
Similar applies to pelican crossings. If on your test the light goes amber BEFORE you cross the line (no matter how close you were) you fail your test. Again it’s up to the driver to anticipate – if someone is waiting by the curb the chances are they’ve already pressed the button.
Failure to anticipate and lack of concentration are both far bigger killers than speed.
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joker I know that but you can’t anticipate people crossing when they frequently just hang out on the corner of the coffee shop and I don’t believe there are any lights on that zebra crossing – just a speed bump.
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also joker if the light turns amber and you are travelling to fast to stop the car before the white line (as per the stopping distances in the highway code) then you have to go through on amber… that’s the law.
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Lula 13 Incorrect: Highway code extract
172: Pelican crossings. …When the amber light is flashing, you must give way to any pedestrians on the crossing. If the amber light is flashing and there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with caution.
Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 23 & 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)
In Jersey case amber does not flash before the red but it’s the same thing. So in other words if someone is on the curb which is the same as ‘on the crossing’ and the light goes amber you must stop.
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Ignore my last comment it’s rubbish.
But you will fail your test if you cross the line after the lights turn amber. I know because I was unlucky enough for it to happen to me! I queried it with my instructor afterwards and he said the examiner was right despite me only being a foot away from the line. Apparently it’s the same for all traffic lights not just those on a crossing.
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If you run someone over on that Bean Around the World crossing the fault will be yours. The Police will say you knew very well it was there, you know were in a busy pedestrian area and you have a good 2 meters of pavement either side of the crossing to anticipate a move. If someone’s loitering then assume the worst and slow right down. Eye contact is best if possible.
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Comment 9 Mrs Bead – “I personally think they should reduce the speed limit along this stretch of road to 15MPH” God help us, it’s the St. Clements coast road argument again.
Lets have a mandatory island wide speed limit of 10 mph, the 2 hour commute will be just like the drive to work I came here to avoid in the UK.
It doesn’t matter what the speed limit is if speeding motorists are to blame, they will still speed. Why not prosecute the speeding motorists and the jaywalking pedestrians alike – problem solved.
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#11 Joker
In case it was me that you are telling to read the highway code, do you really think that I wouldn’t check before entering such a debate?
My copy (which I keep in the car in case anyone tries to pull superior knowledge on me) makes the following relevant points:
(pedestrians)Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you cross.
(also)Where there is an island in the middle of a zebra crossing, wait on the island – before you cross the second half of the road – it is a separate crossing.
(drivers)look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross.
So “actually” the responsibility appears to be
down to both of them more or less equally.
What I didn’t know until I checked was that the centre island rule for pedestrians doesn’t apply to pelican (light controlled) crossings unless the island is staggered.
I would wager that the majority of pedestrians using the zebra crossing outside the Co-op at Red Houses and the well meaning motorists who wave them across from the far side are unaware of this rule.
Joker, I am not trying to be smart – I don’t have to – or take sides with the drivers. I am
merely drawing attention to potentially dangerous situations around a type of crossing which has never been the ideal solution.
All the situations I outlined in my post #6 are real and occur frequently.
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Keith #17, prosecution after the event is not an effective way to prevent accidents. Proper prevention ispreventing it in the first place. I think there should be a 15mph limit all over the Island. The Island is only 9 by 5 so, it would not even take an hour to drive across it. i just think the only way to stop road accidents is to reduce the speed limit right down. Yes it will add journey time but if every one is going 15mile an hour there will be no traffic jams.
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Fair enough and no not just directed at you RB Bougourd but then it is very unlikely anyone is stupid enough to put their foot on the zebra with the car 6 inches away unless they had a death wish. That doesn’t count for young children though – it’s the responsibility of the driver (as they are the one with the car and license) to anticipate as much as possible. Therefore in 99% of situations the pedestrian would have stopped at the curb and the car has plenty of time to stop and that distance is very short because:
a) Stopping distances have been greatly reduced with better compound tyres and ABS; and more importantly
b) The conscious driver will already know the zebra exists, should prepare for someone and therefore seen someone approach and should have prepared and reduced their speed suitably to the conditions.
I’ll give you an example. There’s a relatively new zebra in Devonshire St where the old Aquilla used to be. At first I thought it was a ridiculous place to put one as you come around the blind bend past Bob’s Motorcycles and have about 15 feet to stop. Thing is I know it’s there and therefore should be ready to have to stop before I come around that bend and therefore do so. Same applies for that one outside Bean Around the World. It’s all about concentrating on what you’re doing and planning your next step and not changing the radio station or shouting at the kids in the back at crucial moments.
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Zebra crossings shift the rights of the pedestrian too far out of balance from the needs of the motorists (which are usually greater in number and are people too).
St.Helier is starting to clog up really badly since a number of new crossings have interupted traffic flow.
If they put a crossing outside Murrays at St.Aubin they’ll also have to do away with a number of parking spaces each side in the lead up to the crossing – have they considered that?
Is it really so hard to cross a road? I never have a problem, drivers are usually courteous enough to let old people cross if you’re too impatient to wait for a gap in the traffic.
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Sure if you ask your Connetable he will sort it out for you – or is this the same Connetable he didn’t check whether the parish christmas lights were working before the day they were meant to go up. Maybe he has the zebra (crossing) stored in the Tunnels as well.
Nows he’s TTS Minister if you can’t get this crossing there’s no hope for anything getting done; unless its to dig up a brand new road surface!!!
So come on all you St Brelade residents is Jackson really this inept? (If so I can see why TLS wanted him!!)
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11 Joker….not all Zebra crossings in Jersey have “flashing lights” and I agree with others who have commented that a lot of them are not in the best positions….on bends or junctions for instance.
Why can’t they use a tastefully designed bridge type crossing for pedestrians (like they do on motorways). This will solve both problems of pedestrian safety and traffic flow. Maybe a nice “welcome to St Aubin” sign can be used too?
Just a thought.
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Reference the comments for a 15 m.p.h. limit, if this were introduceded, the island’s roads would be clogged with a continual stream of cars.
You would never be able to exit a side road or cross the road without dodging the continual slow moving traffic.
If you need proof, just observe the traffic flowing through St Peters Village on a Saturday ! It is virtually impossible to exit from the side roads due to the continual flow of slow mooving cars.
Pedestrians really do need to look before they cross !
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Warren J – a lower speed limit would not clog up the roads, because everyone would be going slow. Look at the Victorian era, when cars mixed with horses and carts – travelling less than 15mph and they managed to get along and run smoothly. I think if they introduced a 15mph limit across the Island it would be a much calmer and safer place where children and adults (particularly the elderly) can walk around without being mown down by some rich banker rushing to get to work so he can rip his clients off even more.
Adrian 10mph is far to slow.
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Rosemary – there were a lot less cars on the road in victorian era and less roads, there were also less people who could afford and run a car…
I also find your reference to ruch bankers rushing to get to work to rip off their clients more than a little insulting and fail to see the relevance to this article – however I’d like to point out that over 89% of speeding incidents in the island are caused by 17-25 year olds.
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19 & 24 Rosemary….you are assuming all road accidents are caused by the drivers themselves. This is not true at all so reducing the speed limit to a ridiculously slow pace will not solve a thing.
Perhaps what we need is more traffic police to deter the idiots who speed more than the limits applicable to the area. 30 mph in most areas is perfectly adequate.
…also, perhaps Jaywalking should be penalised too because there are some careless pedestrians out there too.
Remember, a road is a transport system for vehicles so care must be taken.
Would you suggest a train to slow down because idiots play around the tracks?
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lula,
17 to 25 year olds, important people in a hurry, old boys in their high performance retirement treats and last but not least 4×4 mums rushing to get to the gym after the school run.
And guess which would be the quickest to trot out “Does a child have to die before something is done about the speeding?”
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Just drive within the existing speed limits responsibility. Just cross roads carefully.
It’s the irresponsible mortorists and careless pedestrians that generally (but not always) cause accidents.
I’d rather not be hit by a car traveling at 40 mph or 15 mph – when driving I’d rather not hit anyone.
St Aubin could have an additional press button traffic light pedestrian crossing or even (as suggested) an inspiring (rather than motorway bland) over bridge (what about the elderly or physically challenged I hear you cry!!)…….
The fact is, as busy as the Jersey roads are they’re certainly no worse and in fact much better than many UK towns. When crossing at St Aubin you rarely have to wait for more than a couple of minutes – we all have been to places where the wait can make you change your mind!!
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I think that this is a silly thing to get aggrivated about, the girl simply did not look, its a common mistake.
As for the 15MPH islandwide speed limit, i think you need to go sort your life out and get some common sense as this is the most riddiculous comment. they should probably take away your commenting rights for that.
This is overly discussed and the most logical thing to do would be to get on with living our lives and forget about it, the girl certainly learnt her lesson. end of story
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My comment also relates to the girl who nearly got run over a few weeks ago.
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When I go to get my flat bread and milk in the morning, the inner road is awash with cars, all of them with just one person in. Often the cars are gas guzzlers, the people inside could have walked but there is a need to own a vehicle and drive everywhere often rushing and speeding.
Bringing in a lower speed limit would force people to stop buying these silly cars and instead buy eco-cars. The accdient rate would be reduced significantly, a lesser impact on the environment and it is realistic.
People just have to open their minds and welcome new ideas. It seems people want to get everything done faster. Jersey wake up and move with the times, you are decades behind modern transport thinking – as a small Island you should be world leaders – because you can.
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Rosemary – seriously are you off your rocker? Your idea has had no support so you’re now playing the eco card – when you’ve failed before you’ve even began – the island’s speed limit is 40mph and we still have the gas guzzlers! Do you honestly believe lowering the speed limit will “force” people to buy cheaper cars?
People like showing off – with nice cars/big houses/better computers – it’s human nature but seriously I can not believe you think a 15mph speed limit island wide is a good idea? It’s laughable! Teach kids how to cross the road – or encourage them to walk 30m down the road to the pedestrian crossing lol
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Mrs Bead.
These rich bankers rushing to get to work to rip clients off are notorious for mowing people down.
It happens all the time, there should be a law against it.
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sorry that made me laugh. Reduce the speed limit to 15mph? What era are you living in?? People are more likely to speed back up to 30 if you reduce the speed limit by that much.
As for being decades behind modern thinking, the mainland has speed limits of 60mph, the germans have a minimum limit on their roads.
We have a speed which is safe for this island. Its the pedestrians that don’t look where they are going most of the time and just walk out in front of cars, between cars when there is a perfectly good crossing 2 seconds down the road.
Go and find something else to moan about.
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I am entitled to express my views whatever they are, I refer you all to Article 10 of the Human Rights convention which gives me the right to freedom of expression. This right includes the freedom to hold opinions, and to receive and impart information and ideas.
Those of you that used personal attacks against me, rather than factually against my idea are the ‘crazy ones’. Lord of the Flies springs to mind.
15mph across the Island is not only a green solution but a safe one, and a realistic one.
Nobody has presented any proper reasons ‘why not’, rather the argument is ‘why should’ which is an entirely personal and subjective way of looking at it. Nobody has provided any objective reasons why a 15mph speed limit (except emergency vehicles) should not be imposed.
I stick by my view that a 15mph Island speed limit should be brought in and I shall be starting a campaign and petition, which i already have over 1000 people willing to sign and get behind.
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#20 Joker. The Devonshire Place crossing is another example of an unsafe crossing, where it impossible to see pedestrians heading towards Great Union Road till the last moment.
I assume you slow down as you approach that crossing. However, most people grossly overestimate their own reaction times and their car’s braking ability. Even if you manage to brake in time, what if someone’s tailgaiting you?
Why create danger where it is unnecessary?
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Something tells me that Rosemary Bead is not a driver!!
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Rosemary 36….wouldn’t it be better if you used your time and energy to petition for something a lot more realistic….like a better bus service.
Rather than reducing the speed limit where we would still (probably) have the same number of cars, why not improve the public transport system to reduce traffic flow?
I disagree with your idea that the 15mph speed limit will improve traffic flow because it will draw out “rush hours” to something more like 2-3 hours each time. How ridiculous would a 4-6 hour round trip into town each day be?
People have lives to live and don’t want to spend it sitting in a slowly, but steadily moving car.
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Rosemary.
We all have an agreed right to express our opinions but nobody else is obliged to agree with them.
As nobody has told you “any proper reasons” why an Island wide speed limit is not a good idea perhaps I should start the ball rolling.
On second thoughts I don’t think I will waste my time stating the obvious.
However, I have for a long time thought that 30 mph would be more realistic and safer than 40 maximum – except perhaps for the Avenue and the Five Mile Road.
A typical “Mum’s Taxi” diesel 4×4 could chug along happily at 30 returning good fuel economy, unlike petrol engines that would judder a bit in top gear.
Which gear on current cars are you advocating for economical cruising at 15 mph?
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This is all getting extreemly comical.
Before the advent of the motor car, there were presumably no road fatalities. Er no ! The looking back column of the JEP often reports accidents occuring 75 to 100 years ago involving horses bolting and people falling of their cycles!
The reality is that if everyone travelled around by horseback, cycle, foot or public transport, there would still be fatal accidents. In fact I would go as far to say that if private cars were banned, and judging by some of the comments raised on this blog, that is a distinct future possibility, there would proably be even more accidents on the island roads !
If I am travelling at 30 mph in my Mercedes (which incidentally is electronically restricted to 120 mph) and I hit the brakes hard, the Electronic Brake Assist and ABS brings it to a sharp, controlled halt. If I did the same on my bicycle while travelling at 15 mph, I would fall off in a heap and injure myself !
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