Police may soon be armed with stun guns
Saturday 4th April 2009, 2:57PM BST.
Police officers could soon be armed with Taser stun guns.
Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand (pictured) has confirmed that his department are talking to the UK government about importing Tasers into the Island.
He says that it is ‘vitally important’ that the States of Jersey Police can use ‘less-lethal’ weapons to handle serious incidents.
Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary has recommended the use of Tasers to the police, in line with the European Convention on Human Rights.
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Perhaps they can use them on the unruly kids!!!
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Police state comes to mind. Why don’t they use tear gas and rubber bullets as well?
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The solution to these unruly youths methinks…….
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a guy got killed last year in canada airport with one of those taser guns,he did nothing wrong had just arrived and got agitated looking for his mother and as he was a foreigner could,nt understand when police asked him to put his hands up. giving more power to the police is not the answer they overreact to every little incident.
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What is Jersey coming to –or is it really to late!!
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Stun guns?This is Jersey.waste of public money.
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I wonder if Ian Le Marquand remembers the fun he and his pals had with water pistols. I do!
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They already have teargas and rubber bullets / bean bags. The Taser will be carried by more (if not all) plod, and they won’t have to wait for an executive order for them to be issued, or used. I suspect we will see ‘lots’ of usage.
There is already quite a few incidents of note in the USA where these have lead to death, including one person tasered because he was threatening to jump off a ledge, and therefore endangering himself. Naturally, once tasered, he fell to his death, but hey, we all feel safer with these on the way, right?
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Adrian, they have them! For some reason they just don’t use them. I know what is the world coming to!
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This is very sad and very worrying. These items are, as they confirm by the careful wording, not non-lethal. That is to say that their use results in deaths to spell it out in simple terms for the ministers. Police officers often forget this and are much readier to fire a taser than a gun.
Since their adoption in the US a few years back have led to hundreds of deaths, following their use on unarmed people that could have been oterwise subdued.
If the senator is convinced of their usefullness and safety, then I would offer my services to “stun” him personally, multiple times to check out the safety of these oppresive methods of torture.
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Why is it “vitally important” that Police can use less-lethal (notice the use of the word “less” by Le Marquand) weapons to handle serious incidents? When was the last time Jersey Police had to end a serious incident by using lethal force? I can’t recall it ever happening in my lifetime.
The Jersey Police have so far been adept at handling the few firearms incidents we have seen over here without resorting to force of any kind, so Le Marquand’s argument for the introduction of stun guns is illogical.
And could Mr Le Marquand please let us know when was the last time Jersey Police carried baton guns in public, let alone attempted to use them in a confined public space?
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This is just ridiculous and a policy designed so that when the police are at a conference they are in the same club – this is not a policy designed or appropriate for our real policing needs. Once the real police get these what do the “honorees” get – tanks?
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One always hates to let facts get in the way of forum hysteria – the facts are that tasers are safer than plastic bullets, and faster acting than tear gas. If you’d ever had a mentally deranged person coming at you with a knife – which I have – you would know why tasers are the best non-lethal option. Many people have been killed by rubber bullets, tasers are demonstrably safer, for the supects and the officers and members of the public. But there again, you all know much more than I do….
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Stun Guns Do Kill.
Go look at the stats for these things they are dangerous, and what I see of some of the police offices in Jersey they would be used with out thinking.
Reckless.
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Either something is lethal or it isn’t. What does ‘less lethal’ mean?
Does it only kill part of you? A dead-leg perhaps?
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We are assured that all these developments, batons, body armour, stun guns etc have nothing to do with image but are an essential resource for dealing with old ladies armed with handbags and brollies.
Let our Police force go pink – pink is said to have a calming effect and many passive qualities. That even the most violent youth quickly calms down when placed in a pink environment. Before embarking on this latest “make my day punk” gun ho, no worries it won’t kill you crusade I suggest we remove the aggressive body armour, riot batons etc and change our police uniforms to pink. I am sure that the current macho “arrest me copper” attitude of the youth would change if the arresting officers were dressed in pink, placed them in a pink van with pink and for health and safety reason perhaps furry pink handcuffs?
Just a though before somebody gets hurt.
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good move – however the plod won’t use them on kids or drunks without being sued so it’s pointless really
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Euan Mee @13
Well said, I too have been in that position.
But as you say knowledge and expirience mean nothing to the anti lot posting above.
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Euan#13 So taser stun guns are “demonstrably safer” or “less lethal” as the Home Affairs Minister says… I doubt that.
This is Jersey, I admit we have an unruly kids and drunks at the weekend problem but stun guns in the hands of some of our police force, I hope that never happens. Would a mentally handicapped person with a kitchen knife warrant its use, perhaps but not for patrolling the streets of St.Helier
I’m sure there are some who do know more than you..
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Euan
The logical progression of your argument having sited a nutter with a knife assault you is that you know better so what you say should go as far as policing goes.
Policing policy is not about making the police officer feel safe; it is about how society wants its laws to be enforced. If you are a police officer and want a totally safe job then start a cottage industry making fluffy toys, but be careful of pins and needles.
As far as Jersey is concerned and I keep reasonably abreast of local news I have not seen any police officers killed on duty nor hordes of nutty knife wielders dead or being admitted to A&E.
The argument that it could happen is facile and taken to its conclusion would lead to the adoption of armoured cars and M16s just on the off-chance that an officer might break a finger nail whilst writing out a parking ticket.
I saw a police officer in town the other day and he looked like a cross between Inspector Gadget and a member of ‘The Village People‘, come to think of it you can substitute ‘YMCA’ with ‘Rouge Bouillon’ and it does go rather well.
In conclusion I am very pleased that you survived your encounter with the sick person with the knife but I would rather the local police did not look like a rather more lethal version of a top of the range ‘Swiss Army Penknife’ on legs.
On that note does anyone know if the States of Jersey Police carry that little tool for getting stones out of a horses hoof? If not why not as it might just come in useful one day.
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What an obsolutely ridiculous idea!! Give them real guns instead. The island could do with some form of ‘natural selection’ and a few well placed shots by Police in the execution of their duties would certainly not go amiss (no pun intended).
At the same time that most of the people posting here are complaining about unruly youths, and suggesting a new ‘get tough’ approach, it is absolutely hilarious that they go all namby-pamby on this issue. Everyone seems to ‘talk’ a good line; politicians, press, and residents, it’s such a shame that no one has the moral strength to stand up and make a difference.
We have laws in our society that govern peoples’ behaviour in an attempt to constrain them to ‘socially acceptable’ norms. When they breach these laws we have a system of justice to try them, attempt to re-ducate/rehabilitate them, and/or prescribe a punsihment. The system is currently failing because no one has the strength of conviction to stand by the rule of law and punish wrongdoers. Thus the perceived benefits of criminality outweigh the potential costs. Increase the punishment and the consequent fear that this puts into people’s minds and they will then fall into line.
I’m certain that the ‘youth’ issue in St. Helier would disappear after one or two weekends if the Police, or ‘someone’ aptly disposed, collared these miscreants when they acted inappropriately, dragged them into an alley, and layed into them. At some point society needs to stand up and say “This is unacceptable, and we will not endure it any longer.”
Until the residents of this island are propelled to act, I support the Police in any undertaking they propose. As the government has seen fit to remove the individual’s right to defend themselves, I take great comfort in knowing that the Police are suitably equipped to do so.
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maybe they could use the stun gun on the states members to wake them all up and get them back from lunch on time
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Typical attitude. Always ready with the whip it seems!
How we over-react in Jersey. Strathclyde riot police for a tax demo? Injudicious use of pepper spray?
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What about Senator Syvret and his cronies who state that it is a breach of human rights to reprimand or detain children. Now we are proposing to shoot them!!
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Having served in the police for over 30 years – including 17 years in Jersey – I’d be worried about some of my former colleagues carrying a ‘Taser’. Many really weren’t made of the right stuff and not at all suitable to carry a stun gun. Watch this space……………
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Lula 17 I agree, the plod will be too scared to use them…..either that or they’ll get easily disarmed and the Tasers will be used on them
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Maybe they could fit everyone with dog collars? Then the authorities could just turn the amps up to get them into line? Simple and effective. NWO here we come. Maybe they could just get SWAT teams in to clear up the mess? Or even have helicopters (like the ones from Appocolypse Now)hovering over town to swoop down on wrong doers and spray them with a few thousand rounds of armour piercing builts? This would make things a bit quieter wouldn’t it?
This is Jersey not some inner city ghetto where everyone uses machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. I must say the police appear to be getting soft. Where has the Dickson of Dock Green approach gone? This always got the desired results without any violence. This is Jersey you know.
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I am seriously disappointed with Senator Le Marquand. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air, but we now learn he is just another establishment ‘plant’. To approve the use of Taser guns proves that.
They are totally unnecessary in Jersey, and, as others have said above, definitely not ‘non-lethal. If you’ve a dicky heart (which you may not be aware of) or a pacemaker – you’re dead. Of course, police officers will look up your medical records before they shoot you …
The only re=ason police use of guns is lethal is because they shoot to kill. Were they to shoot to incapicate, it would be safer than Taser. The blurb fails to tell us, also, that Tasers are ineffective on fit people high on drugs or people wearing stout clothing.
This is just another example of our out-of-control police – now towing Le Marquand along by his nose instead of Kinnard.
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Steve C,
This is a real issue not to be confused with glib humour. If tasers are introduced and used people will die.
If you do not believe the wise advice of the people herein, then I would suggest that you search on public advocacy websites in the US where you will find an overwhelming reason not to do so in Jersey.
If you want to punish the “unruly youths” give them something to do. People have complain about “the youths” for millenia but very few have offerred to provide activities for them to do.
You obviously have a strong moral sense and so I would suggest that you lead by example rather than promote intolerance, fear and suppresion.
I doubt that you would really condone the beating of chidren, but if this is the case perhaps you have the courage to publish your full name as well.
Darren
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Anyone that has ever policed in Jersey will welcome this, yes tazers have their drawbacks but so does CS spray (which incidently also wasn’t needed apparently, be interesting to know how many times that has been used, I would guess at many). Tazers are another option, and sit quite low in the scale of force, below CS and indeed Baton (which can kill in far more cases than tazer). If you have a heart problem and you put yourself in the position where you have tazer used on you, then more fool you!. Contrary to popular belief Police officers will not just go round shooting everybody, there are strict guidlines and several warnings will have to be issued. If it saves one life, or one person getting a serious kicking then it is worthwhile, please get some perspective they are not just being handed out to kids on the street, give the police at least some credit.
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15. Nioleux. Presumably less lethal means less likely to kill than other weapons, like a gun. Le Marquand hasn’t labelled the taser non-lethal. It sounds like his department is considering the application of tasers. Lets hope they consider all of the facts.
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Bad idea those things can kill and are abused in the UK now.
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And the need for stun guns is?
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You anti lot want to get real.
A drunken, drugged or deranged, armed (even some kids are carrying knives),public order offender resisting arrest is nearly an everyday occurrence for the police officers protecting us in this island. As has been said previously, batons (already carried by officers)have more potential to kill or permanently maim than a Taser.
As with batons the officers will be trained in their use, they will only be used to protect life(maybe yours) where all other lesser harmful measures have been used. (it is illegal for an officer to use inappropriate force).
If this piece of equipment makes theirs and the offenders life safer I am all for it.
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EX Bean. You present a self defeating argument.
Correct, there area strict guidelines.
Incorrect, that they can be used to prevent a godd kicking. The weapon has to be appropriate to the risk. You don’t shoot an unarmed man who is in a fight. Well not yet anyway.
Expat2: I agree. I know some officers that shouldn’t be trusted with a biro.
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“Contrary to popular belief Police officers will not just go round shooting everybody, there are strict guidlines and several warnings will have to be issued.”
What happened to the Bralian guy in London just going about his ordinary business then? Was it 8 bullets in the head?
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#29 , D Le Geyt.
I’m afraid you misunderstood my post. I was not being glib, or humourous. If Tasers are introduced, some people may die. I am fully aware of that consequence.
Those would be people who present a clear and present danger to the safety of a police officer or a member of the public. They would be people who were involved in the commission of a crime against society, or believed, with reasonable cause, to have been involved. They would be people who disobeyed a lawful command from a police officer. In my view, their death rests squarely on their shoulders.
The majority of the population never come into contact with the police beacause we don’t break the law. It’s really simple. If you’re afraid of dying from a Taser – stop breaking the law!!
As for your confusion regarding the causal relationship between boredom and crime, I suggest you give your head a shake. If you are a bored youth read a book, do some volunteer work, develop some interests. However hanging about in town accosting passersby is not a result of boredom – it is a result of a poor ubringing resulting in a lack of understanding regarding acceptable norms of behaviour and respect for your fellow man.
As for your assertion that I support ‘beating’ children, I do not. However, I do believe that corporal punishment is frequently the best way to deal with ‘nonresponsive personalities’.
“Spare the rod – spoil the child” was a common refrain long before I was born – and long before society’s descent into the gutter.
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Ex Bean (entry 30) is right, there is a continuum of force that should be applied by police officers, which goes from verbal instructions, to fending a person away with your hands, restraining moves, pepper spray, Taser and lethal force using a firearm.
However I still maintain, that there used to be people in the SJoP, who I’d not trust with a water pistol, never mind a Taser.
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They’ll come in handy next time they need to take that crazy Stuart Syvret down.
A mad dangerous man like that! such a threat to the public it takes 8 Police to bring him down.
I can’t remember the appropriate smiley for sarcasm is it
or 
?
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Please please please everybody,venting our spleen here deflates our frustration for a short while but effectiveness will be for us to e mail Ian Le Marquand directly at: (i.lemarquand@gov.je) this very popular poll topper must know the depth of feeling and as a Christian realize the danger of hiding a bad motive underneath a good one, indeed the readiness to use these unnescessary weapons on the public is I am afraid already there…the Ramboesque appearance of tooled up cops is not what I want to live around,we are I believe heading for social unrest,the govt know it and are ramping up a response…this must not happen..we must be heard before we are under a Robert Mugabe type control regime…..don’t think it can happen here….? wake up…! !
You may not like Stuart Syvret…but would you enjoy what just happened to him………..?
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#30 Ex Bean
“there are strict guidlines and several warnings will have to be issued”.
Surely it goes something like
“ArmedpolicedropyourweaponBANG”
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Maybe thats the next plan for poor senator syvret?
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@Adrian #36
Anti terrorism laws allow officers to shoot first in a very specific situation, not really relevant to Jersey and tazers.
@Nioleux #35
Actually my arguement is correct, weapon or not if I am in fear for my safety or that of a member of the public, and the threat (offender) is not restrainable by conventional means (ie bigger than me, harder than me or out of his mind on drugs) then he will be getting tazer’d, and rightly so. you do not need to have a weapon to be cs’d, same rules apply.
@38 Expat2
I will not disagree that there are some officers who are at best, worrying
@41 R B Bougard
Tazer does not class as armed police, it will be simple ‘stop what you are doing’ then ‘stop now or I’ll tazer you’ then you tazer.
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PJG what happened with the innocent Brazilian guy in London then? 8 bullets in the head.
As with the batons what about the poor guy walking home through the G20 protest then? He ws walking away from the police with his hands in his pockets then he wss hit from behind with a baton and then thrown to the floor by a police man in riot gear. Unfortunately he died soon after.
This is what you would expect in 1984 by George Orwell not the 21st century. I suggest people read it as it gives an accurate insight into how things will end up in the not too distant future if we carry on down this road.
Much of it is now fact.
This isn’t the sort of policing that should be allowed on the streets of the UK. This is what you expect in Zimbabwe isn’t it? Nevermind we could well have these sort of things coming to a street near us soon.
Politicians and management have already learnt the art of double think.
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I’m just letting my mind wonder back to the world cup, there was some sort of hoohar near patriotic street car park.
wasn’t there some doubt in peoples minds back then that the police were a tad trigger happy with the old pepper spray? I seem to recall a phone video recording of some lad who was just watching the trouble till he was taken down by a jet of mace.
Now we’re planning on giving them new toys to get all over excited about?
I don’t mind them shocking, spraying, beating real violent armed criminals who are so dangerous it would require that sort of incapacitation. But surely it smells a little like, police nowadays aren’t trained to physically hold and detain, rather that they need these toys to do it for them?
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Our only fear is police may overreact and use stun guns.Look at Jersey live where we have too much police for such an event where i saw a girl on her boyfriends shoulders being warned by police to get down.Every person is different some are calm,some panic and it may be the same for a police officer when to use a stun gun.
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#43 Ex bean (how it pains me to be typing that silly name for Crapauds)
Thank you for putting me right on the correct procedure for issuing a pre-tazering warning.
I assume that there is no minimum time limit between the warning and the action as in my firearms example.
If for instance someone happened to be a Brazilian of suspect appearance would he be expected to know what you mean by “I’ll tazer you”? Is it a recognised verb yet?
Incidentally I drew my firearms warning example from video clips I have seen of training sessions with pop-up cardboard villains.
Not real life you might say, but remember how training becomes instilled behaviour.
There is a famous tale of how a last minute reprieve was delivered to the commander of a firing squad. He shouted “Stop” and expecting
his order they fired.
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##Ex Bean
How well you sum up the very things that gives people concern about handing out Tasers.
Someone you want to talk to = ‘offender’
Someone ‘bigger or harder than you’ = apply Taser.
Am I the only person who thinks the streets of St. Helier will be safer withfewer police on the streets?
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no doubt to be used on Stuart Syvret or our next major riot……
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And the need for stun guns is?
After the events of this week, probably to use on Stuart Syvret.
Seriously though, I find this quite worrying – it would appear the police have a lot more free rein than we realised and seem to be a law unto themselves.
What is happening here?
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Give our police some credit.
Officers are not going to run around sticking 14000volt needles in to everyone who looks at them sideways
The tazer,along with other “weapons” is a tool of their trade, how else do you expect a 5ft 4″ 7 and 1/2 stone (extremely brave)female officer to protect “you” from a rampaging deranged giant.
Hopefully these weapons will never have to be used, our officers are trained to only use weapons if necessary.
Adrian, I do not think it is correct, even if you do to comment on the poor guy walking home through the G20 protest, that is still under investigation. and I do not have enough info.
Sadly Mr Mendes (you know “the Bralian guy in London”)was a horrendous mistake, we must do all we can to prevent such happening again, but remember the officers who perpetrated this mistake thought they were averting another suicide bomber who was about to kill or maim hundreds of innocent victims. I am not giving this as an excuse merely trying to set the scene of human falability.We must not let this happen again, but lets not throw the baby out in the bathwater.
1984,! do you think the thought police could prevent accidents the likes of this happening?
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@ Simon 48
I simplified for the people on here that obviously have no idea what it is like to put yourself in harms way for the public.
Maybe you should try it and see if you would want a taser or simply kind words to protect yourself.
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Good idea that will be supported by all law abiding citizens.
I only hope the establishment keep a note of all those who oppose this splendid proposal. We need to be vigilent against troublemakers.
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PJG I suggest you watch the news then it was well covered last night. If you and others condon this sort of behaviour then it is no wonder things are going downhill.
As per Mr.Menendez there was no excuse for what happened to him. You have fallen into a trap by saying this mustn’t happen again because as sure as eggs are eggs it will.
The police mustn’t end up as a riot squad who patrol the streets like packs of wild animals beating anything in its path because the authorities don’t like vocal opposition to their policies. Down this road lies the police and big brother state so familiar in 1984 by George Orwell.
Stun guns will be used if they are brought in, why else have them if not to use them? I am sure there are probably one or two in the police looking forward to zapping people to see how good they are.
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adrian
Have you read any books other than 1984?
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#54 Adrian
“I am sure there are probably one or two in the police looking forward to zapping people to see how good they are.”
And when she was good, she was very very good..
And when she was bad she got tasered!
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Perhaps we’ll be allowed to buy these tasers ourselves….to protect us from (some of) the incompetent police.
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Yes mad foetus very many, but 1984 is such an important piece of work as has mirrored what has been evolving over the last few years. What do you think double think refers to?
If people can’t see that we are being led step by step down the route of Big Brother and the Police State they must be blind. I believ eit is only a matter of time before people end up getting micro-chipped by the authorities under the pretext of it being for their own protection when it will be for other reasons. However I am sure most will blindly go along with it if they feel their safety is threatened enough. Maybe another 7/7 or 9/11 might be the deciding factor for this new piece piece of legislation?
You may laugh by all means as did those before 9/11 happened! Personal liberties are going one by one if people can’t see this they are blind to reality.
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There are some dangerous nutters out there and the police must be given the appropriate tools to protect themselves and the public.
Tazers will only be used in critical situations where previously firearms would have been used.
There is still the potential to kill with a tazer but much less so than with a gun.
The offender has to take some responsibility for the cobnsequences. If a nutter runs at you with a knife or a broken bottle you don’t wait for a background report to tell you is is the victim of mental illness or whatever. The police officer has the common law right to protect himself and a mandatory duty to protect others.
My major concern is that our police seem to over-react and lately seem to have very little control or accountability. – The police seem to be less than acountable if a matter can be termed “Operational” that is my only fear with issuing Tazers.
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The problem was not the number of officers involved – had the arrest and search been lawful QED
one to arrest, a second to witness arrest.
6 officers in a dedicated search team –
not unreasonable per se
what would be unreasonable would be 8 officers standing on your doorstep – that might be seen as opression and well over the top.
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Can any of you police officers posting here for the use of tasers tell me if I have a ” common law right to protect myself ” while I am working in the event I am attacked or do I run the risk of being “tasered”?? I am a PSV driver.
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If anyone can honestly justify the need for them here in Jersey then I will be happy to have them available for specially trained officers.
The Police have very few serious incidences to deal with in Jersey and when they have had they have been able to use their other policing skills to successfully defused the situation.
Jersey is not London, it is a very safe place to live and the level of violence and crime does not in my opinion warrant the need for such methods of policing
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Harry 59
Can you recall the spin on how the police would only use the CS sprays … and then the reality caught on camera
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