Bailiff: Why I will not e-mail Senator Syvret
Tuesday 28th April 2009, 2:59PM BST.
THE Bailiff today told Senator Stuart Syvret that he was not prepared to enter into correspondence with someone who had described him as having the ‘ethics of a Bangkok pimp’.
During the arrangement of public business in the States, Senator Syvret was asking why one of his propositions — concerning an investigation into the death of staff nurse Elizabeth Rourke — had been rejected or delayed.
Sir Philip Bailhache (pictured) told him that he had been e-mailed by the Greffier the reasons why there was a problem with his proposition. But Senator Syvret then asked the Bailiff to put in writing what standing orders he was using to delay the proposition.
Sir Philip told him: ‘I have extended an invitation to you to come and discuss the matter with me. You have declined that invitation. I am not prepared to engage in e-mail correspondence with a Member who accused the President of the States of having the ethics of a Bangkok pimp.’
There was then around 30 seconds of vigorous foot-stamping from Members in support of the Bailiff’s comments.
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Well done Sir.A shame the majority do not join you in having nothing to do with him.
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kate,
that’s where you’re wrong. The majority regard him as a nasty piece of work.
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Has he ever been to Bangkok?
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Grow up!
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I can’t remember a more fairground time in Jersey Politics. Fun and sad at the same time, as it does get away from the more urgent issues that are affecting the island. Shame really that SS uses this form of poetic licence, otherwise he might get a bit more respect for his often accurate perceptions. Yes it’s an important fight, but what about diplomacy…?
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Senator (who is elected by the people) Syvret must have his reasons, sometimes he seems a little outspoken but its certainly a good way to get his views accross.
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Well there you are Stuart..a challenge…go see the guy,talk, it would be a shame to invalidate your points of view,by silly name slinging instead of man to man negotiating and then you can report back,till then he has you on the back foot…anyway what would he know about being a Bangcock pimp…obviously far too much fun….
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From what I have read above and in the JEP, the Bailiff has not said he’s having nothing to do with Stuart, he’s just not prepared to put anything in writing. He has offered to meet and discuss this with Stuart.
It is Stuart who refused to meet because of something that happened in 1996…. (when I’m presuming they did meet, and something went wrong?) so maybe Stuart would agree to meet but only with a witness present taking notes or tape recording what was said.
Who knows?
But that’s the way I see it.
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I agree Kate. Any corrispondence is dangerous with a man who will turn other people’s tradegy to his own advantage.
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I am a little ambiguous regarding the Bailiff, but I feel he has behaved with dignity in this matter.
What a shame Senator Perchard couldn’t behave the same.
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Congratulations Sir Philip on putting Senator Syvret in his place.
Can I ask Senator Syvret what he is doing for those misguided voters such as myself who helped him obtain an island wide mandate and how he is actually earning his £40k per annum. I trust he is doing more than just pursuing his petty vendettas and wild conspiracy theories.
Can I suggest the the Senator takes a leaf out of Senator Perchard’s book and tender his resignation in order to stand before the electorate again and test the strength of his majority gained at his last election. In other words Senator Syvret “Put up or Shut Up”
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good on u Syvret !!! stick by your guns… atleast some people care about the island and the abuse it has suffered and still does !!! some people are just very small minded and believe what they read !
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States of Jersey- Sponsored by Chipperfeild Circus. Why not change the Anthem to ‘Send in the Clowns? It’s more musical after all.
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Hear, hear Kate!
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When were the Presidential elections held in Jersey, Does the Queen know?
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Nice Hannah
And to Hobgoblin… “Can I suggest the the Senator takes a leaf out of Senator Perchard’s book and tender his resignation in order to stand before the electorate again”
Not quite.
SP is not standing for re-election, he has merely resigned from his ministerial position. Big difference. SS doesn’t have a ministerial position to resign from as the old boys would never let him have one. If they did maybe he would have the chance to do more than he currently can.
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From a personal persepective I was interested to find out why this insult had been made in the first place before judging anyone.
Though it might pain some to visit the blog to find out a little of the background to this episode (from Syvret’s point of view at least) it does make interesting reading which, (and I emphasise)if true, explains why such a comment was made.
The brief article above does not tell the whole story and may lead readers to assume or judge it as nothing more than an exceptionally rude throw-away comment made by one to the other. There appears to be a story behind it.
Quite frankly, the Bailiff would have been better served by not mentioning the 2 year old email as it has now drawn attention to the wider issues behind it.
For those who do not wish to read the latest posting on his blog, feel free to continue to point your finger in total, wilfully blind ignorance.
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Nioleux
I have just taken your advice and am now not “in total, wilfully blind ignorance ”
I wish I was !!
SSs arogant,name calling, juvenile, self serving rant has left me feeling dirty, I once voted for the man.
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“From a personal persepective I was interested to find out why this insult had been made in the first place before judging anyone.”
Hmm, I don’t remember you making that comment when Perchie insulted the Messiah.
But then, double standards for everything to do with SS.
Why don’t you look at why SS reported TJN to the police for blackmail when TJN had documents to show his claim was baseless?
No, see no evil, hear no evil but believe every conspiracy – welcome to the world of a Syvret supporter.
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Nioleux
Further to my last posting (8)I too decided to find out what was behind it all and did the same as you, and of course the answer is there.
Makes everything clear now.
Whatever the Stuart enemies say about him, he does have a valid answer to this situation.
There are 2 sides to every story, all people need to do is listen to the other side before denigrating the man. Stuart is only concerned with real true justice, irrespective of WHO is trying to swerve it off course.
No wonder he’s driven to colourful words.
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There may be 2 sides to every story.
There certainly was to the TJN blackmail claim, when SS claimed to have been blackmailed, asked/pressured the police to investigate and then backed down when the TJN said they had evidence that showed SS’s claim were untrue.
Because while I don’t like the Bailiff, I don’t think anyone has ever accused him of lying to the police.
And I would always prefer to trust someone with a record of honesty over one with a history of dishonesty.
Of course, SS may know why he asked the police to investigate a matter which he then failed to pursue, but the fact I have repeatedly challenged him to do so and he has failed to do so perhaps tells its own story.
But as we know, SS and his supporters only hear and see what they want to hear and see.
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PJG
I apologise for pointing you in a direction that made you feel dirty. I should have warned you first to ignore the style and instead regard the content but that would not be possible for you given you multitudinous anti-Syvret rants on here.
Actually feotus, I did take notice of why Perchard made the comment(s). I simply didn’t see it as justification for a health minister to promote suicide.
I do not condone the words used by Syvret, nor do I agree with everything he stands for. Far from it. But I would like to think that I have enough intelligence to look at evidence objectively and not simply jump on the bandwagon for no other reason than because Syvret said something it is wrong.
At least with Syvret and some others what you see is what you get – good and bad. That way you can take an educated guess when it comes to voting.
There are far too many out there who stand for election with smiles, suits, and false promises and whose real character is never publicly revealed. I prefer to know who I am voting for rather than a glossy PR image.
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I really cant believe it, With all this in fighting & bickering how can these people actually say they have the best interests of the people and the Island at heart, I honestly feel they are to busy scheming and ploting against each other that they have lost track of what they are meant to be doing.
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Nioleux (22) Well said. With S.S., what you see is what you get – little or no duplicity with our Stuart; unlike many other members of the Island’s Parlaiment and others in the establishment. S.S. is derided because he won’t conform and he is not part of the ‘Old Boy’ network. He adds colour to the otherwise dull group of politicians who run the island and wears his heart on his sleeve – notwithstanding that, I don’t always agree with his policies or statements.
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Diplomacy Strikes – you have a short memory.
SS was Health Minsiter and before that head of the Health Committee. What did he do in that time?
Not a lot as many of the problems are not new but are systemic and date back to the time when SS had, for many yeras, the chance to do something! from speaking wit health workers they did not have a very high opinion of what SS achieved in his time at the helm.
Can someone show me a positive achievement of SS since he was first elected? Something that justifies his salary for all those years?
Self promotion and jumping on the bandwagon of other peoples suffering is not an achievement. The poor victims of abuse would be far better served if someone worked with the system.
A Politician can only claim the moral high ground when his comments are based on facts that can be substantiated and not wild rambling that do not benefit the community SS was elected to serve.
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diplomacy strikes 16
Obviously Senator Syvret can’t resign from the Council of Ministers if he isn’t on it. It was the principle that I was referring to. Senator Perchard resigned and then stood again to see if he still had the support of the house. He soon found out that he didn’t. I am suggesting that Senator Syvret resigns and forces a Bi-Election. He can then stand again to test the support of the electorate.
If he has the island wide support that many of the contributors to his blog suggest he has then Senator Syvret has nothing to loose and everything to gain from a reinforced mandate.
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20. Linda. “No wonder he’s driven to colourful words”.
Like Jimmy Perchard was.
Surely if you are excusing Syvret for his colourful language, then you will be excusing Perchards too.
If not, perhaps you can explain your use of double standards.
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I’m surprised that there are very few comments critical of the Bailiff, surely he has overstepped his remit?
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Mad foetus – I was always brought up to believe there are actually 3 sides to every story – yours, theirs and the truth!
I stopped believing in Syvret many years ago when he put his blinkers on and became interested only in children in care. Elderly, what elderly? Even writing directly to Syvret with grave concerns over an elderly relative’s safety I did not get even the courtesy of a response. I now return the favour and show the same amount of interest in him. Zip.
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Big Bean,
Likening someones ‘ethics’ to those of a Bangkok Pimp, is hardly the same comparison as a Minister in charge of Health telling someone else to kill themselves.
No, I cannot excuse Perchards behaviour, I’m afraid that was far worse than just ‘colourful’
words. Words that affected many people who had actually lost someone dear to them through them having actually done what Perchard suggested to Stuart.
After all, how many Bangkok Pimps are going to be up in arms about their ‘ethics’ I wonder?
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Only in Jersey!!
Sort yourselves out this is infantile. If I were the Monach I’d threaten to remove your 800 year independance as its quite clear for all to see your incapable of managing yourselves in a transparent open democracy. Who ever heard of a President of the States who isnt elected? Surely the Queen only needs one representative appointment without election of the people and that’s your Lt Governor.
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Nioleux
I did read the content about the email and other “stories”, it was the unsubstantiated accusations against as of now innocent individuals. It was his two faced use ( different for him as apposed what he wants served on others)of what he considers to be the law, that made me feel dirty.
But as an SS disciple I would not expect you to understand !
I am pleased the AG has ruled that PPaCE art 29 was used correctly, but again I am sure you and other misguided (by SS)individuals will ignore the findings of a very learned individual on the law in preference to the interpretation of a carpenter, and as a lot of posters here may become confused I should state I am not talking about Jesus Christ,
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PJG.
1. Not a disciple of anyone (please re-read the 3rd paragraph of #22), I just get tired of reading the same old auto-pilot anti SS stuff from the same individuals who wouldn’t care if even 10% percent of what SS said is actually true. The 90% that he may be wrong about does not invalidate the 10% which may be true. ‘two wrongs…’ etc.
2. The AG doesn’t rule on anything nor does he have findings – that is his brothers job. He gives an ‘opinion’. Nothing more. It is not the word of god. The carpenter’s lawyer, also a very learned individual in law, may disagree with that opinion.
Example: the AG in England gave an opinion that the invasion of Iraq was lawful. Many have a different opinion and indeed some are challenging it in court at present. Attorney General’s have not always been right. History has shown this.
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Big Bean,27
Don’t think I haven’t replied to your comment, because I have explained quite eloquently the difference between the two situations, but the moderator has not accepted it.
Still, you know where it IS published A? I suggest you look there, you know where comments aren’t screened !
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The title “President of the States” merely indicated that the Bailiff presides over the States’ Assembly, not that he is the head of the Executive.
As far as Her Majesty threatening to remove the Island’s 800 year independance (sic), this would not be constitutionally possible. However, HM Government might take a good hard look at what is going on and decide that enough is enough. It would be a simple process for a bill to be brought before parliament to make Jersey (the Guernsey Bailiwick too?) a constituency of the Westminster Parliament.
That would add 53 to the Jersey unemployment register at a stroke.
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Nioleux
If as you say SS may be wrong 90% of the time, surely from a man in his position this should be inexcusable, the damage this can to the sanity of his victims, who may be innocent remember, can only be compared with bullying of the highest order. Yes I agree the 10% he may be right about is of concern. But unlike you I prefer my evidence of such untainted by what any lawyer worth his salt would rip to bits.
In short my sympathy lies with his victims.SS is only a victim of his own making.
Your posts do not appear to have any regard to the victims of his blog,from that I consider your views as from a blinkered disciple
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Gross Misconduct – you will see very few comments critical of the Bailiff on here simply because this paper will not print them!!
You can bet your bottom dollar this one will not appear either.
Jersey Establishment Press? – Yes!
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JG [37] They printed your comment so perhaps it is time to reassess this particular conspiracy theory.
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I am a student in the Island and get very woried about how the people who run the island act. From day to day there are always silly little storys about our politicians and the mistakes they are making is there no way to get well educated individuals in our government? Or they could just grow up and be professional for once!
“ethics of a Bangkok pimp” hardly sometthing to get worked up about is it
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…and what if he was 90% right and only 10% wrong?
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“The carpenter’s lawyer, also a very learned individual in law…”
Before making any value judgement on any professional in a field where you have no expertise, you may be advised to consult that professional’s peers.
Otherwise you are just assuming that because someone has a title, they know what they are talking about, which is exactly what you were arguing against doing in relation to bad boy BillyB.
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I would still have sympathy for victims of bullying and as far as the law allowed, castigate the bully.
I would not sit on the fence
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Touche hard lawyer. Good point well made.
(although it doesn’t detract in any way from the point I was making regarding it being an opinon only)
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To suggest the bailiff has the ethics of a Bankok pimp is hilarious and shouldnt be taken seriously. However Im sure if it was the other way SS would be ranting and raving and bringing slander charges against whoever said it.
SS can give but he cannot take – the typical characteristics of a bully.
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Yes Mr Sausage – the typical characteristics of a bully.
The Bailiff is correct not to enter into any correspondence with Senator Syvret, following the ‘Bangkok Pimp’ e-mail. Anyone who uses language and tone like that doesn’t deserve any response or respect.
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Having said all of that, what exactly are the “ethics of a Bangkok pimp” and how are they mirrored in the Bailiff’s behaviour?
I have met the Bailiff many times and have never warmed to the chap. But then I guess you don’t get to be Bailiff if you are an indiscreet joker.
Is there any evidence that he exploits his “employees” in the manner of a pimp? Is SS making a veiled comment about conditions at the Bailiff’s Chambers? Does he make the Bailiff’s secretary perform unspeakable acts with strangers? Or does he ask him to nip out for sandwiches sometimes, (presumably) in flagrent breach of Human Rights legislation?
As with many of SS’s utterances, one gets the feeling that, on closer inspection, they don’t make any sense.
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Sanity – what do you know?
Others have not appeared, and where has a conspiracy theory been mentioned? When you have the facts then you can pass comment.
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#41 Hard Lawyer, well said! Same goes for people in the creative arts, but unfortunately Simon Cowell gets to be judge and jury there, not actual musicians!
Regardless of anything else the Bailiff has said or done before, he has said exactly what I would have said when faced with such a remark on my character.
It’s dignified, straightforward and non-aggressive.
As with #46 I’d love to know what such ethics are?
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It’s a slur on Bangkok pimps, many of whom I know to be perfectly straight businessmen and women.
My Syvret has described other individuals in the same way, viz:
“Possessed of all the integrity of a Bangkok pimp.” [referring to a certain civil servant in Health]
Pimps at least render a useful service and should not be denigrated. Please find another epithet!
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The written word is there for all to see. I myself would prefer to put things in writing so that no misunderstanding or accusations could be leveled at me for whatever reason after the event.
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I myself would be content to correspond via email with anyone who questioned me as it would show me to be above silly politics. Also if anyone put any of my correspondence online, I would know that the end result would be the discrediting of the person leaking the information. This would have the desired result of neutralising any petty, misleading or untrue statements as they would not be consistent with my correspondence.
It would also prove exactly what had, or had not, been said, or alleged, etc. at any given time. It is often said that there are three versions of events, what I remember, what you remember and the actuality. I would prefer the first two were not confused with the later. Written records help alleviate this issue, as far as I am concerned.
I would be quite happy to show the evidence, i.e. the sent emails, to an independent authority for verification, if so needed to prove my point. Any parties playing silly b****** would then be shown in their true light. Their credibility would then been destroyed, as would their careers, by their own stupidity.
End of story.
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Adrian,
That is exactly why the Bailiff won’t correspond in writing with Syvret. he knows that SS wants to cause as much damage as possible to Jersey and has no respect for confidentiality or giving a balanced view. The Bailiff knows that whatever he says will be twisted and taken out of context so would rather avoid that.
I’m afraid asking for things to be put in writing is equivalent to saying that you don’t trust someone: it is an insult.
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Mad foetus – you are absolutely right. There is no place for the blind hatred and vile and derisory insults that have become the hall mark of the politics Senator Syvret has bought to our Island. He was once a popular maverick who bought problems to light but when given responsibility he was found hollow and wanting. He failed abysmally as health minister at a time when many of the problems he now claims to champion occurred. He has nothing to constructive to offer and should resign as he is no longer fit for purpose.
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Very interesting article in the Sunday Times culture magazine looking at conspiracy theory. Perhaps before the AG enters into any further dialog with senator Syvret he should read the article as if nothing else the comparisons might bring a smile the next he is subjected to another of the Senator’s rants. The article concludes “it also leaves with you with the pathetic image of the solitary male and his computer, the technology both the cause of his isolation and the outlet for his resultant delusions”
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mad foetus If as you say there is no trust then this says it all doesn’t it?
Why would this be do you think?
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the UNELECTED baliff is too spineless to put anything in writing as he knows it will be used against him, he should not have any say in the states as the people did NOT put him there.
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mick that raises an interesting point how can the public remove of any of the five unelected States members if they aren’t happy with any of them?
At least the CoM do face elections every 3-6 years depending on their grade.
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54 Well done Sanity, referring to a Sunday Times article about anonymous internet posters slagging off their victims, and than using that as a launchpad to criticise Senator Syvret.
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What worries me is the fact that if there are ever any discrepancies about anything, or disputes etc. we are always told to ‘put it in writing’. That is supposedly ones safeguard against anything wrong being done.
Therefore, I am at a loss to know why the Bailiff refuses to do so. After all his words could not be changed or twisted, because he could prove the original e-mail, and then discredit any so called changes or twists.
Of course if Stuart were correct in what his side of things were, and he was allegedly told to shut his mouth about something he considered to be illegal, then I most certainly would only want to meet with that person wired to the hilt, or would want things in writing in future.
Which one do you think is hiding something? Oh, can’t you get past the personalities? Well to put it simply if you have nothing to hide, you will put it all in writing, purely to cover yourself!
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Sanity/Dec – interesting to note that you are both posting, but not using your proper names!
Any reason why?
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Good point about the solitary males who squirt their venom online, like a stream of bile from a political puss bubble.
If everyone used their real names and had to justify everything they said, people like SS would not get away with so much.
Okay, we know who he is but would he be prepared to say all those things if he had to stand on the modern day equivalent of a soap box in the town market? I doubt it.
People who hide behind anonymity to make unjustified slurs are even worse and should not be given air time (or web time).
Dave
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“how can the public remove of any of the five unelected States members if they aren’t happy with any of them?”
Adrian,
Why would you not be happy with them? They can’t vote, you know what the Dean is going to say, the AG is there to provide legal advice and gets paid about a quarter of what he could command in private practice, and the Bailiff just preserves order and can only vote if a vote is tied and even then, has to vote to preserve the status quo.
Or would you prefer Jersey to elect a speaker like the House of Commons? In which case you would have an elected person, backed by the CoM, telling Syvret when to shut up. At the moment it would probably be someone like Paul Routier. I can’t see how replacing the Bailiff with a senior States member is going to be a material improvement.
Basically, you don’t like Jersey. You criticise everything you can without any constructive suggestions. Well, I would propose that rather than stew about how bad Jersey is, as SS has done for over 20 years, why don’t you go to live somewhere that is perfect and then report back to us?
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mad foetus if you can’t see the blindly obvious thats your problem. In a democracy you elect the members of said house. We have five unelected establishment figures who are not beholdent to the electorate. Surely even you can see this is undemocratic??
As you have state dthe Bailiff follows the staus quo.
I would prefer a system where there would be a chance for a change of regime. Having the same party, to all intents and purposes, since the end of the war is not my idea of how things should be done in a democracy.
Why should an opposition candidate be denied his chance to speak as the father of the house? Why should an unelected establishment figure be able to do this? This is not free speech this is censorship as far as I am concerned.
I can very good reasons to move these five unelected establishment figures from an assembly that is meant to be democratic unlike you who is happy with the very poor state of affairs as regards most things over here.
You are wrong I do like Jersey, I just detest the way it is going. Anyone who thinks things are ok over here must be very well insulated from day to day problems and the almost weekly blunders coming from the State’s incompetence at running the island.
It isn’t about living somewhere perfect as everywhere has some problems but I do expect a reasonable standard of running things, not the joke that passes for government we have now as far as I am concerned.
I have suggested better ways of doing things on some posts maybe you haven’t read them?
I’ll ask my question yet again as you appear to have missed it or ignored it.
mad foetus If as you say there is no trust then this says it all doesn’t it?
Why would this be do you think?
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Adrian so there are five unelected members can you name them and their responsibilities?
Perchance have any only the right of audience rather than voting?
If so exactly the same as in most democratic chambers
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Adrian – You pick up on the political hype about the Bailiff and AG but stop and think about things. The five “unelected” members you are currently going on about have only an advisory role. They cannot vote and therefore cannot alter the democratic decision making of our elected representatives. There are actually hundred of civil servants who each day create government policy which is rubber stamped by what you refer to as the establishment.
You use the emotive phase “establishment” but this is really only a term invented by the conspiracy theorists as a label for any person in authority and does not to all practical purposes exist. As for your claim that in a democracy you get a regular change of government I don’t understand your logic. As a democratic State Jersey has held regular elections since the war and those people who have stood for election and received the most votes have formed a government. How much more democratic can you get? Unless of course you are referring to the North Korea model currently in fashion.
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Adrian,
The reason there is no trust is because Syvret has form in trying to damage Jersey. He did this in the mid 90s when he swore an affadavit for the New York court, for his friend Philip Sinel, trying to invoke RICO legislation against Cantrade. He was happy to say that it was impossible to get justice in Jersey.
I think he is the biggest threat to Jersey for decades. He is rude to people and then expects them to do him a favour. If anyone compared me to a Bangkok pimp I wouldn’t be inclined to do him a favour.
But that is why SS is a total failure as a politician: because he does not realise that you need the help of others if you are to achieve anything. The only thing he has achieved is getting twice the wage he managed as a cabinet maker. He is taking you for a ride, and you are applauding while he does it.
You couldn’t make it up!
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Mad foetus at the end of the day I am interested in getting to the truth of things regardless of whom might be put out by it.
I can assure you that trust has been lacking for quite some time now and not just because of Senator Syvret or what he has said.
I commend you on your faith in the authorities. I however do not share your faith.
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