Liberation Day trading outcry
Wednesday 29th April 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Richard Mackenzie
RULES governing Sunday trading have been dubbed a ‘postcode lottery’ ahead of the Liberation Day weekend, when many stores will be forced to close all weekend while competitors can open their doors.
As Liberation Day falls on a Saturday this year, the vast majority of premises will have to shut. And there is anger that in this difficult climate traders will lose a key day.
However, to ease potential losses some Constables are giving stores permission to trade on the Sunday, while others are sticking to the letter of the law and maintaining the ban on opening.
In the centre of town, St Helier Constable Simon Crowcroft is allowing all shops to be open on Sunday 10 May from 11 am until 5 pm as part of the Fête de la Libération.
But town centre manager Richard Mackenzie said that the Sunday trading permission would not extend to the Co-Op Grand Marché or Safeway, despite both being in St Helier.
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What a place! Dark ages!
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Proving yet again as if proof were needed that Bureaucracy has no Business acumen,sympathy with or even a nodding aquaintence with how it all works and who pays for it…and yet they will want the same struggling traders and employers to pay tax and provide work,,,they should all be made to go back out into the real world to see what real life and responsibility actually is but perhaps the shock would be too much……
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This is a joke as far as I am concerned. The day should have been a proclaimed holiday like Boxing Day and then the following Monday should have been given as a day in lieu to the workers.
When has anyone known a country to vary their bank holidays every year depending on when they fall? It is a total farce as far as I am concerned.
If anyone disagrees with giving a day’s holiday in lieu of Liberation Day then I shall be expecting them to work on Boxing Day this year, or are people two faced?
As far as I am concerned we have nine bank holidays in Jersey every year not nine most years and eight some years.
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Has anybody bothered to ask the consumer ‘what’ they want? No? Well there’s a surprise!
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And what happened the last time Liberation Day fell on a Saturday? None of this fuss I am sure.
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Lack of Sunday trading is the one thing that angers me most about Jersey. I’m surprised we still don’t have square wheels on our cars. What a truly backward island this is sometimes
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Who the hell want’s to shop at a supermarket on a sunday, i only bother once a month, because i have to !!!!
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This is such rubbish. They can’t get anything right here!
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‘When has anyone known a country to vary their bank holidays every year depending on when they fall? It is a total farce as far as I am concerned.’
Ummmm…well…ever heard of Easter??!!!!!! It falls on a different date sometimes… also Jersey is not technically a country…
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Darren, I’ve lived for decades with Sunday trading, it gets very boring very quickly and the people I know back home in the UK would be delighted to see the back of it (and they combine both religious and non-religious).
I love that Jersey has one day a week that is a bit different to the rest and I miss that in the UK. With the UK now being very much 24-hr, all that has happened is that people have come to rely on it too much and planning skills have dwindled. I was recently back home where the shop (singular) only opens 4 days a week and at varying times. It is the most relaxing place you could be and the people generally seem a lot happier than in towns and cities.
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Haven’t you all forgotten what may the 9th stands for? Its not about opening or not opening a shop!
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Mogit wrote:
“Who the hell want’s to shop at a supermarket on a sunday, i only bother once a month, because i have to !!!! ”
People who can be bothered to shop more than once a month for starters.
Then people who find Saturday shopping too loony.
Then people who are too busy during the week.
By the way, Mogit, I do hope you buy some fresh food occasionaly!
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I love the fact that shops are closed on Sunday, cant understand why people get so upset about them being closed.
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You can’t just keep moving the goal posts to suit you or maybe they can. As times are so hard at the moment for the majority of shops I would have thought let them open. Has anyone thought in respect of the supermarkets not being able to open that fresh produce will not arrive in the Islands until the Tuesday. Have they any idea of the confusion this will cause in getting ferry deliveries.
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Life enriching???
I avoid town like the plague as i find its so run down & dindgy unlike its hey day in the 70,s,80,s.
I remember a lot of flower baskets & flower arrangements in those times. The town was quite an attractive proposition so many years ago.
Now however it looks dirty & scruffy & looks reminiscent of a scene from BLADERUNNER.
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It’s about time the fuddy-duddys stopped this “no opening on Sundays”. It’s competely prehistoric & has no relevance for the thousands of families who try to cram all their shopping into one day off(usually Saturday). In this economic climate, every shop needs more customers & getting rid of the prehistoric Sunday law would bring in much revenue. The majority of complainers about wanting to keep Sunday closed are OAPS or retired. Think about the working class with families for once!!
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Liberation day is a public holiday, great. The problem here is not Liberation day, but our Sunday trading laws.
If a business wishes to open, any day of the year, let them. In the UK shopping on Sunday is the new leisure industry. We may even satisfy the wishes of our French day trippers.
I say liberalise the law. Leave businesses and consumer free to decide.
Right on Darren (6).
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Mike #9. Easter days off work always fall on the same days of the week (I won’t insult you by spelling out which days) even though the feast is moveable as I think you are trying to say.
Liberation day is a date, which can fall on any day of the week. Just like Boxing Day which Adrian has been using as an example re. shops closing and workers being given days off.
I realise that part of the problem is that there
appears to be an obligation to take issue with anything Adrian posts. The nit picking over the word “country” for example. Perhaps we could settle for “administration”?
I do not find it particularly difficult to understand that when a public holiday falls on certain days which mean that people miss out on a leave day, then it seems fair that they should get a day off in lieu.
The debate should surely be whether everyone has the same day off, as in the Boxing Day example, or should it be negotiable with employers.
The other question is should Liberation Day be treated in the same way as a religious holiday, a Bank Holiday or a Sunday as far as business opening is concerned?
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What is an even bigger nonsense is that by virtue of the Connetables of each Parish having the power over who and what can open, one garden centre can open in the west can open and another in the east cannot!
No wonder Ransome’s aren’t happy.
What a nonsense!
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Ref No16
If you can not find enough time in the week (Mon – Sat) to do shopping, when no doubt you are in a 9-5 role, from your previous remarks. Then surly you need to re-evaluate your lifestyle!!!! There are supermarkets open form 7am to 9pm 6 days a week and shops open all day Saturday in town. Have you ever stopped to think maybe people working in shops deserve 1 day off a week with their loved ones, they are not just there to revolve around people like yourself.
Sunday is a day of rest and it should stay that way. Jersey is a beautiful Island and opening on Sundays would make in more like the hustle and bustle in the UK. More to the point of Liberation Day, the reason it is a public holiday is to reflect on the fact, of our Island being liberated from the Germans and what terrible things people in this Island went through during the war. If you don’t know what happened during the occupation, may I suggest you go to the library next week and borrow a book on the occupation of Jersey and spend May 9th reading it rather than going to town to do you’re shopping.
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Mike as Boxing Day falls on a Saturday this year I presume you will be working on the following Monday then and not taking the day off like the rest of us?
Anyone who is happy for an employer to take their holidays away must be a bit dim in my opinion. Maybe you could give your employer all your holidays back then? I’m sure they will thank you from the bottom of their heart, or is it the heart of…?
Anyone who can’t see the stupidity of not giving a day in lieu of Liberation Day on the following Monday will be working on Monday 28th December won’t they, as Boxing Day falls on a SATURDAY as well???
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If it is illegal for certain shops to open on a Sunday how can a constable give “permission” for a store to open? They are supposed to uphold the law, even if it is shown to be an ass!
The Employment Tribunal have given decisions on bank/public holidays if anyone wants to look them up, they can be found on JACS website.
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Wish someone would liberate us from El Presidente Bailiff Bailhache
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Jersey #20
I totally disagree with you. The world has changed. The idea that everybody should have a day of rest on Sundays is laughable. I loved #6 Darren’s comments about square wheels, very funny. However, he’s right, lack of Sunday trading does show Jersey as being different, sadly, not for the right reasons
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Jersey – completely out of touch with modern society. This is 2009, not 1959!
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LOL I totally agree with jersey. This is not about shops opening, this is about the liberation of the islands. I for one, personally would love a dead town on Saturday morning. It would give me a longer line-in, and not be woken up by cars driving past my flat at 9 in morning on my day off. Go FULL ENGLISH BREAKFAST!!!!!!
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By letting shops open, surely you are giving people a choice…
Sorry, i forgot, this is the dictatorship that is Jersey!
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I totally agree with 16 wuj that with the working day for some people not finishing till about 8 at night, then your options are very limited. sunday opening would be far easier for those that cannot make it during the working week..
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No Mr Sausage, that is where you are wrong.
This is not 2009, and it never will be in Jersey because too many people spend too much time reminiscing of the good old days of the 70′s and 80′s. The times when closing the whole island down on holidays and Sundays worked. When tourists really appreciated the small island feel and that’s why they came here.
Maybe somebody will wake up and see that people have changed, society has changed and this island needs to change with it. We are decades behind the rest of the world with so many laws and customs. If our politicians ever take 5 minutes break from their petty squabbling to actually do something for the island it will be a blessing.
(just want to point out if anyone missed that – I was agreeing with Mr Sausage, not disagreeing!)
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liberation day is the most important day in our calender.
however, working this day should be up to the individual. and if there are no money to pay workers who take this day off,so be it.
those who want to open , let them.
its sad to see french day trippers walking up the quay on a sunday to find our town shut..
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Mr Sausage, I have no idea who you are, haven’t come across your posting name before, but clearly you feel it perfectly okay to be unbelievably rude and presumptious, AND more importantly, to lie about what someone else has said. Unbelievable!
I’d be the last person to call such people the ‘minions of society’ and I find it utterly offensive that you’ve printed that as if I myself said it! I have a whole family of NHS thanks. An apology will be acceptable!
To everyone else: I consider the emergency services far more valuable than they are treated by society, particularly those at the frontline (paramedics, nurses etc)! Please read my actual comment for yourself before believing the lies in Mr Sausage’s comment!
As for gathering in fields and praising? Maybe you’ve assumed it’s a religious thing, maybe you don’t know what assuming does? I don’t care if it’s Tuesday, Saturday, or any other day, ONE day of relative peace a week would be nice.
Just a rest would be great. Not everyone can have one, and people like my family chose their jobs knowing that. What you are looking at is changing terms and conditions for some people who are already in certain jobs, that’s a different matter.
Maybe it is YOU who should be thinking of others? Like those who would actually be affected by these changes, not the consumer!
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#11 Well said. This is a consumer society and for some consumption is all that matters. Thankfully not for all.
I have yet to understand why a business like a supermarket, clothes shop, book shop, jewellers etc would make MORE money by opening one more day a week. Possibly a tiny bit more but offset that with your overheads? People buy what they want and need to buy, one more day of shops being open doesn’t change how much money we have or what we’re going to spend it on!
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I find it quite annoying when people describe Jersey as being somehow backward and living in the past because of Sunday Trading Laws, there is nothing modern or radical about working 7 days a week and long hours, in fact im sure thats how serfs in the middle ages were forced to live. So the fairest thing would be for all those clamouring for Sunday Trading to go straight to their bosses on Tuesday and demand the right to work on Sunday’s so as to appear modern and terribly wordly wise.
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Done a double-check Mr Sausage (in case you’d mixed me up with someone else), you’re the only person to mention the word ‘minions’ or anything that would come up in a Thesaurus as related to it!
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The fact I find hardest to deal with, living in Jersey, is the feeling that I have gone back to the 1970′s. Yes, I could go back to the UK – unfortunately I am employed in one of the many roles that Jersey people are unable (don’t have the skills) to do & am helping to keep your island as prosperous as it currently is.
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Quite agree Obo those up for 24/7 working get on with it and leave the rest of us in peace. Anyone who is too incompetent, silly or working too long that they can’t get their shopping done in 6 days deserves to starve as far as I am concerned. It is pathetic to think that shops need to be open on a Sunday.
I have a very simple solution that would benefit everyone. If I had my way I would have people (except emergency workers) working four days a week making up the extra day over four. Then lo and behold people could cover Monday to Friday on a rota having Saturday and Sunday off and a day in the week for their shopping. Anyone who can’t see the wisdom in this is beyond help as far as I am cocerned.
Anyone who is unable to see that a day in lieu should be given for Saturday will be working on 28th December even though we have been given a day in lieu for Boxing Day on the Monday after the Boxing Day Saturday. Where is the difference between the two?
Anyone still not understand that they have lost a day’s holiday this year yet?
My solution is give the following Monday in lieu of Liberation Day, everyone is then extremely happy, or do as the authorities are instructing and not give a day in lieu. A bit of a no brainer in my opinion. This would at least be a token of appreciation for the workers not a getting an inflation realignment this year!!
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36 Simon
Perhaps you should rephrase your comments.
“the many roles that Jersey people are unable (don’t have the skills)”.
I think you’ll find it’s probably because they either don’t want to or more likely doing it somewhere else……your’re implication that Jersey folk are lazy or stupid is inaccurate and highly offensive.
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Unfortunately this is part of the English mentality BS Deluxe. It is not uncommon over here. Maybe it harks back to the days of Empire? I have heard this phrase overseas “don’t you know we are English?” said in a tone that is aimed at putting Johnie Foreigner in their place, when they dare question anything.
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Simon don’t bother I would prefer it if you went back to England. Jersey survived the Occupation and it can survive post finance. Jersey people are very resourceful and can survive being left on their own for long periods. I doubt the same could be said for those north of the Channel.
Quality of Life, like we had before the 1980′s, beats quantity any day. Why bother working stupid hours for a few extra pennies? Anyone who can’t see that they are on a treadmill that is being turned faster and faster every suceeding year is blind to reality. They are also being made poorer in real terms, every year by inflation, and extra taxes like GST. Maybe it is a blessing that most are too stupid to know what is going on?
Nevermind at least you still have a job for now.
I believe this consumer society will only end in tears, you have been warned! The only winners are big business and the rich. The rest are there to make up the numbers, and to do the work for peanuts, so as to maximise profits for those pulling the strings, so that they can employ more people to make more money…… Hopefully you get the picture.
Finally a question for you. If work is so marvellous, rewarding and life enriching how come the rich don’t keep it all for themselves?
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Adrian wrote “If work is so marvellous, rewarding and life enriching how come the rich don’t keep it all for themselves?”
As far as I am concerned they can.
30 years of it with only August off was more than enough for me!
Never got to Jersey for Liberation Day, even the 50th.
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Adrian,
If everyone had your attitude we would still be living in caves & dying in our 30′s.
Hard work (no matter the field) is the mother & father of invention in a whole host of areas that have made the lives of the whole of humanity a great deal more worth living.
As for insulting Jersey people – ‘your’re (sic) implication that Jersey folk are lazy or stupid is inaccurate and highly offensive’.
Not my intention – merely saying that Jersey has to import skilled people onto the island – largely to perform roles that the existing population are unable to – but whenever such people suggest an alternative way of doing things they are met with a barrage of opposition that usually ends up with the statement ‘if you don’t like it why don’t you go back to the UK’.
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Simon said I speak as I see things, if others are happy with the mess we are in economically and environmentally that is their perrogative.
So my attitude of wanting people to help others and making sure the weakest in the community for whatever reason are looked after is what is keeping us in caves is it?
Hard work means squat Simon. It doesn’t guarentee you anything in life. It often guarentees that you will be taken advantage of by others though. It isn’t how hard you work it is how smart you work isn’t it? Everyone knows people who have taken the easy way to the top of the greasy pole, often at the expense of other more decent people, who deserved to get on much more than the idiot who got there.
As for making peoples’ lives easier wouldn’t free electricity have done this? How come then much of Tesla’s work was hidden away from the public then?
It wasn’t me that made the comment about your comments being offensive.
However I stand by my comment that many English people think they are superior to other races for some reason.
The main reason any country imports skilled labour is not because their citizens aren’t up to it as you seem to be implying, it is because they haven’t been given the opportunity to train or may be overseas doing it there. This is why it is about time Jersey got this sorted out and stopped bringing in J-cats all the time for jobs like teaching, police, fire service etc. Yes there may be highly specialised jobs, that might justify bringing someone in, like a surgeon for example. Every country has to import some specialists even the UK.
People should always treat others with respect or else they face being ostricised.
I myself don’t like this 24/7 consumer society it is a waste of time and money. You can keep it. Bring back the calm, peace, freedom, job security and stability of the 1960′s and 1970′s much more fun and enjoyment and much less stress,stupidity and back stabbing, than now.
As per Liberation Day I take it most are happy to lose one day’s holiday this year then? The same will happen next year as well, just in case you aren’t aware of it. Luckily at least Boxing Day which also falls on a Saturday hasn’t been lost as well.
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Simon, I haven’t ever had that reaction to things I’ve suggested and I’m from the UK. Maybe you need to look at the WAY you put your suggestions across. Also, if you are met with a ‘barrage of opposition’ then is it just possible that your alternative way of doing things is simply a bad suggestion? Don’t assume it’s because the people opposing you are wrong, we are all human and sometimes it is just us that are wrong. Of course, there are people who will take great offence when any suggestion of theirs is not taken on board, but such people are destructive to business not constructive.
My skills are required here, in fact they are in very short supply worldwide, but I don’t mention that to people as if I am doing them some kind of favour by being here. I’m not. I’m filling a position that if I didn’t fill it, someone else would. If the attitude you put across is that Jersey is lucky to have you then you are suggesting you consider yourself superior, and since you are not superior you should expect a backlash!
Young people go to Uni in the UK and could come back and fill these roles, they certainly aren’t too stupid, but there’s nothing wrong with them taking some time to live elsewhere, some may come back later, others may make their life away from the island. Presumably you could have fulfilled your role in the UK? I doubt you were dragged over here against your will? You presumably saw some benefit in coming here to work?
Everywhere in the world relies on incomers, the UK is one of the most reliant on incomers that there is! Just don’t suggest you’re doing Jersey some great favour by being here and you’ll probably find you get on a lot better!
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Simon and Adrian, there are many studies suggesting that a full working week worked over 4 days is more productive than the current system used in the UK. A couple of more forward thinking companies in Scotland have recently started trying this method and they have also found that productivity has increased, despite the fact that the total hours worked are the same. Not only that but staff are happier because work and social life seems more in balance and for some their childcare costs are now lower.
I doubt it will ever become the norm since the UK thinks the answer to increasing productivity is overwork and underpay pushing people to be signed off long-term sick! But thankfully some newer small companies are at least trying it out to see what the pros and cons are.
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If thats the case why don’t they do it Leah? I have been on about this for years. 4 day working would sort out most of our working issues we have today. Maybe those in charge don’t want us with time on our hands to enjoy ourselves? I can’t see any other reason why they wouldn’t want to implement this simple improvement to everyone working life.
I see the time when we will have an epidemic of stress and depression the way things are going. This idiocracy has got to stop. People aren’t on this planet to be worked to death. The way to upset people is to carry on down this consumer, greedy, stab you in the back, for a few pence route. It is getting us nowhere, we are going backwards not forwards.
What has happened to the promise of better working conditions, easier ways of working, better quality of life and an early well funded retirement, that we were given 30-40 years ago?
Liberation Day is a prime example of how to annoy the workers as far as I am concerned. A day’s holiday in lieu should always be given for it every year. It shouldn’t depend on the day of the week it falls on. No other Bank Holidays have this odd rule applied to them do they?
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Adrian, you can give people all sorts of evidence for measures increasing productivity, if they are of the mindset that their staff should work till they drop then they won’t ever listen.
Most businesses don’t care about staff’s work/life balance, as long as everything appears to run smoothly they’ll leave it alone. And if someone ends up off with stress you can easily get rid of them!
I used to work alongside people that slacked off during the regular hours (9am – 5pm) because they felt it looked better for them to be the last to leave the office, but if they were still going to be there at 8pm the time would go quicker if they had work to do (the work they should have done earlier).
It became a competition to be the last to leave and all these idiots had no social lives during the week and weekends were spent in a drunken stupor. Must make for a great life.
It is insane, but have you ever had a boss that was genuinely intelligent, who could see things for what they were? It will take such a person to make any real change.
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That’s because the other bank holidays are defined by the UK government and in the next 10 years I expect Liberation day to go away completely as nobody will be alive that will remember it. It’s totally sad and yes i do feel a little cheated but I can understand why (in this economic climate) some workers have not been given a day off in lieu
Do not ruin this island by encouraging Sunday trading. I am 22 i work 9-5 and i find enough time to do all of my shopping! I also shop for my friends family who can’t get into town that often due to disability. I like the fact that everybody has Sunday off together – it guarantees you can enjoy your Saturday night and Sunday morning with your friends because you know there aren’t any work commitments.
I never thought i’d agree with Adrian on something but it seems in this case we are united in our stand with Leah – NO to sunday trading!
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Adrian said “This is a joke as far as I am concerned. The day should have been a proclaimed holiday like Boxing Day and then the following Monday should have been given as a day in lieu to the workers”
Adrian I have to know, you suggest that we treat Liberation Day like boxing day so people can have the day off, but I would suggest you don’t really want that…I mean do you listen to the radio or watch television for instance not essential services but I am sure you enjoy them on this day of rest, obviously we would have to shut the airport I mean they deserve the day off too, no telecoms staff (except those to keep 999 working) no buses/ taxi drivers or any conveneince stores open I think your view is flawed and bespoke as many many people work on boxing day and I am afraid many of them make a profit from it, so I am not disrespectful of the Liberation or the hardship our families endured, but we need to be realistic.
If I have a shop thats closed every monday I am not required to give an extra day to someone for Easter Monday so whats the difference here.
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I am currently holidaying in Brittany where shops close for two hours in the middle of the day for lunch breaks, I can’t imagine this is very good for the economy but my Dad who’s retired here has learned to plan around it or go to the big supermarkets which don’t have inordinately long lunch breaks.
The only thing I would say to a 24 hour trading model, which should be fairly self evident is that this is accomplished through a split shift system, therefore all work is done on a rotating basis, as such I don’t see how such a system need be much more complicated than a shop opening 4 days a week.
I think we do need legislation preventing shops from opening on bank holidays or have a mandatory day off in lieu however to protect the workers, as most of them will be contractually obliged to work through their holidays if their employers are not obliged to close.
My previous employer insisted I take my Liberation Day holiday when I was unwell as I wasn’t entitled to sick leave while serving notice, as you can imagine it wasn’t the most pleasurable holiday I’ve ever taken(!)
N.
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Adrian,
I understand the points you’re making. The problem is, the world has changed. We’ve seen with our decline in tourism, what happens when Jersey drags it’s feet – we get overtaken. Thanks to the internet and other forms of communication, the world is constantly interacting with each other. If we try to create 4 day weeks, our economy would be in danger of sinking faster than memories of Charlie Hungerford
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Gary There is no need for 24/7 working, everyone bar those providing emergency cover could work 4 in 5 days during the week, so enabling them to shop on their spare day off in the week. Lo and behold everyone, were possible, has the weekend off every weekend. Isn’t this better for the work life balance? Or we could carry on down this road to stupidity and end up with lots of people off sick or in an early grave.
I believe you will find that a day not worked enables the worker to a day in lieu. Try JACS and see what they say.
Darren this consumer society is no good for families, enjoyment of free time, etc. Do you just do what others do because you don’t want to get left behind? A very feeble excuse. Try going to France and see how they enjoy themselves. Work isn’t there to grind them into the deck, it is there to enable them to live.
People should remember this quote.
You should work to live, you shouldn’t live to work.
The second one is just a form of slavery isn’t it? Maybe this is why stress levels and depression are on the rise?
How can the economy be adversely affected by better working practices? I would dare to say it would improve efficiency. Maybe those in charge don’t want people to have a better life? Maybe they are worried that this would lead down the road to people realising work is a waste of valuable time? This would be no good for the Protestent Work ethic would it, we can’t have that can we? Keep their noses to the grind stone!!
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Don’t often have the same reasoning as Adrian even on the occasions that I agree with him, but the UK is already showing the negative effects of 24hr society. And regardless of what people’s good intentions are, a move towards 7 day a week trading will eventually lead to longer hours on those 7 days.
The UK economy is in dire straits. Even before the ‘bust’ billions of taxpayers money was being lost to people signed off long-term with stress. Each person has an individual reason for this, but the over-riding factor is a very poor work-life balance. And the people themselves are not to blame, this situation has been forced on them.
I’m with Lula, although I don’t care if it is a Sunday or a Wednesday…
I’m not for the introduction of more legislation, it would be preferable for companies that bosses had a better understanding of the long-term problems of a poor work-life balance. Everyone (and I do include emergency workers in this) needs to have known ‘time-off’. Having to negotiate shifts right up to the last minute is not anywhere near as relaxing as knowing four weeks in advance that you will have the days ? and ? off to relax! This is do-able for emergency workers also, save for large-scale disasters.
Some legislation makes life harder for employers and staff (like that in the UK of keeping jobs open for women on maternity leave etc). The law does let businesses down. But businesses can help themselves and one of the biggest threats they are going to face in this society is people signed off long-term with stress! They would be sensible to put measures in place now to ease this situation.
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And those who want to continue the consumer society need to realise that it has failed. The liberalisation that brought about its birth is slowly but surely being reversed to a degree. It’s time is over and we all need to grow-up and learn from our grandparents’ generation.
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