United in freedom
Monday 11th May 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Jersey Field Squadron members recreate the scene from 1945 from the balcony of the Pomme d’Or Hotel. Picture by David Ferguson (00687269)
ISLANDERS from all nations and creeds who contribute to Jersey have a right to think of themselves as Jersey people, the Bailiff said in his Liberation Day speech.
In his last 9 May address before he steps down in June, Sir Philip Bailhache said that we should all celebrate the Island’s increasing diversity.
Sir Philip said that he was proud that Jersey had a synagogue and looked forward to a day when Island Muslims had a mosque to worship in.
For the first time, Sir Philip was joined on the Liberation Square dais by the German Ambassador, His Excellency Georg Boomgaarden, to underline the themes of reconciliation, tolerance and the celebration of freedom.
Hundreds gathered to mark the day in both Liberation Square and Weighbridge Square, where a giant screen broadcasting events live had been set up among food, drink and craft stalls.
More words and pictures
• Liberation Day States’ sitting: Click here
• Liberation Square service and re-enactment: Click here
• Wreaths laid in memory of slaveworkers: Click here
• Liberation celebrations at Weighbridge Square: Click here
• Liberation Music Festival: Click here
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So why do they not have a right to the same standard of living as Jersey ‘born’ people’ do?
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Despite the warm and well meant sentiment this never the less leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
We have a right to “think” of ourselves as Jersey people – provided we don’t mind being ostracised in the housing market and limited to minimum wage jobs for the first five years of our participation in Jersey’s diversity …
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I don’t believe it,he’s done it again..! Let’s have a Mosque now…is he actually a Jerseyman..? This is NOT a Muslim country we are a tiny island forced to share our space with others who fuel the finance business,and some catering,and before any of you bleeding heart mob get into a fit of self righteous indignation..it does not work and we cannot accomodate the entire world and it’s customs.if you don’t like it …clear off.
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Truthseeker … the bile!
Do people like you still exist in Jersey? Do you really think that Jersey’s success is solely due to Jerseymen …. my God, wake up!
“if you dont like it clear off”, you say … well I did 9 years ago because people like you are running Jersey and limiting its growth, prosperity and prospects.
You and your like will be the death of Jersey, not Jewish or Muslin immigrants!
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How can someone not born in Jersey be classifed as a Jersey person???
Yes you can become a naturalised Australian for example but no way would an Ozzie classify a Pom as a fellow Australia no matter how long they lived there!! I can assure you that any British person trying that on in Australia would be taken down a peg or two.
A Grockle makes some interesting points about housing and jobs. The population needs close scrutiny and I think it is about time proper conditions of entry to Jersey were set, like they do in Australia, to only take the best, on an annual quota. By taking the best Jersey would place itself in a much stronger position globally. These top tier people would then get the same conditions as the indigenous population, as they would have earnt them due to their proven skills and abilities.
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Well,well,well he’s done it again, where else in the world would this kind of comment be made, thank god he is retiring and thank god i’m nearly retired and looking forward to leaving this backwater !!!
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3. truthseeker
Be careful you don’t fall off that high horse you might hurt yourself.
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So does this mean that gay people will finally be equal and have marriage? Oh no, sorry! He was talking about the all loving religions which don’t allow it. My mistake, why should I include myself in Jersey’s increasing diversity? I’ll just go and help build a place of worship for more people to judge and condemn me. Thanks Sir Phil.
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truthseeker
I believe that your attitude speaks for many of the “Jersey” population. Oh, that our ruling class had half of your eloquence and conviction of beliefs to proclaim these very words in the chamber. I’m sure that I’m correct in assuming that you advocate that all Jersey born expats should be returned to the Island post-haste to assume the positions that these upstart Johnny Foreigners “and their customs” will vacate when they “clear off” en masse?
Or perhaps they should be subjected by the UK to the same restrictions subjected on the very hard working and undervalued immigrant population…
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Truthseeker
It would appear that seeking the truth is a tad different from seeking enlightenment! What on earth is wrong in having a Mosque for those Moslems on the island to worship in? Is this really such a problem? To the best of my knowledge St Thomas’ Roman Catholic Church is currently lending them a room to pray in and I am sure that turning a vacant shop premises into a mosque is not going to increase the housing problem significantly.
So in short I don’t like ‘it’ and no I won’t clear off; I am going to stay here and irritate the hell out of those who express such bigoted attitudes. It sounds as if some people would have rather not had the Liberation in the first place.
Yours
A indignant self righteous bleeding heart
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For each year that WW2 recedes into the distance the celebrations in Jersey seem to get bigger.
As for the ‘national anthem’, words fail me. My family has lived here for generations and I refuse to sing it.
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Well said Truthseeker and Adrian.
As for “alps expat” i assume you feel the same about countries such as Canada and Australia that have a decent immigration policy then? That every country should be open to anyone that decides they fancy living there? Because that’s basically what you’re saying about Jersey, that we should allow anyone in and just be happy that we’re extremely overcrowded? we shouldn’t begrudge the fact that the island quality of life has become so poor due to the huge influx of people? our schools, roads, hopsital, sewarage system are already full past capacity, yet we should welcome with open arms any person that gets off the boat? Sorry “alps expat” but the bile comes from you, not Truthseeker.
As for opening a mosque, let’s try going to a Muslim country and opening a church, see what happens!
Finally, I wish the bailiff would stop using our Liberation Day as a means to air his highly questionable political views. He is not wanted here, and I for one am very pleased that he’s leaving next month.
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I agree with truthseeker, even if others think it wrong or petty. And I suppose others with strong roots in the island think similarly.
In response to Alps Expat, since when did Jersey people care about the ‘success’ of the island with respect to the wider world. Jersey doesn’t need to ‘grow’ as the population is already vastly to high, and an increase in prosperity can sometimes lead to a reduction in the quality of life. For example, in terms of overpopulation, too many cars on the road, pollution, overcrowding in schools and hospitals etc.
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Of course to placate the interlopers,and as there is indecision about it I suppose we could
paint the dome of fort regent gold and put an advert on E bay saying island for sale,cheap as distressed and shop soiled…owners going away.
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Why do migrants come to Jersey? Is it because they don’t like the way their own country is going and expect to get a better deal here? Maybe, some didn’t like all the migrants coming into their own country, so you came here to get away from them?
Anyone who moves to a different country should tray and fit in. How would you be accepted in Oz for example with a bad attitude? Not very well if you carried on like that there. That’s if you could get past their immigration tests.
I have nothing against “Johnie Foreigner”, to use a quaint English Imperial word, and would prefer them to be happy here. However, it would also be nice not to have racism shown to islanders and to have respect for the island heritage, even if it is alien to the newcommers. Jersey is not an English county which many seem to expect when they get here for some reason.
I believe any country has a right to maintain its identity and culture and shouldn’t have to have it wiped out because of globalisation. We are all different and we should celebrate being different. Who wants to be the same as everyone else? What a boring, monotonous world that would be!
Yes it would be good if there were houses for all over here but there is a limit. What happens when this limit is exceeded? Jersey doesn’t have the resources of the UK, or Australia, it is only 9 miles by 5 miles, at its maximum extent. How many people do you think should live in 45 square miles?
Maybe a more important question would be:-
How many can live in peace in this area, without a break down of law and order?
50,000, 100,000, 200,000, 500,000, 1,000,000?
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Yep we’re all equal in Jersey – some more than others. Adrian is right about the stance we should take on immigration. Instead of the anyone in but deny them basic rights for 12 years policy which doesn’t work, cherry pick the best and give them citizenship from the off.
I think the states assumed that the current policy would bring in tax revenue from people who would leave before achieving locally qualified status, effectively paying in money they would never benefit from in terms of pension. Problem is Jersey is such a great place to live that many of us stayed and made it our home. I waited 20 years for the right to live as a local.
I can never understand the view expressed by some locals in wanting us to leave if we don’t like it. They accept the prosperity that immigrant labour brings through finance and a cheap agricultural workforce. They are happy to eat Chinese, Indian, Italian food. I don’t consider myself a Jerseyman but I do think of Jersey as home.
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I agree with the majority- no to a mosque, just look to the UK to see what happens.
Jersey is overpopulated, too many people have been allowed in. We should have had work permits years ago. We are now told we need more people to pay for the low-wage workers now living in states accommodation.
Quallies should have stayed at 20 years and should not be reduced further
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Thought Liberation day was about Freedom from the Nazi not winging about not having Housing qualifications
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Well said Tobias and Adrian. Jersey is losing its own individualtity every day. Sometimes I feel like a foreigner in my own island…
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The Bailiff is, in my humble experience, an humanitarian who genuinely wishes that people of all persuasions can get along with one another.
The trouble with well intentioned comments regarding mosques and immigrants is that, rather than fostering good intent, such comments tend to have the effect of causing resentment among the indigenous population. In short, it stirs up trouble. Best avoided next year!
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I’m sorry but if a Jersey person moves to somewhere such an australia or america or even france or italy we will face worse living circumstances as you do moving over here – you know we live on a small island you know there are housing and working restrictions yet you come over and whine about it – change the record or go home! I’m not local but i knew what i was getting into – i did my time in jersey and now have quallies.
And totally agree John – why is it that the polish and portuguese over here don’t try to integrate with the locals at all! Then they whine about how they live in sub standard accomodation? Try getting some qualifications, getting a job nobody else can do and get paid more so you can afford better non quals accomidation… to be honest there are some terrible houses for quallied people out there as well… it’s all about what you can afford
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Lula comment 21 “I’m sorry but if a Jersey person moves to somewhere such an australia or america or even france or italy we will face worse living circumstances as you do moving over here”
Yes but the comparison is between the UK where no such restrictions apply to Jersey people, that is why so many Brits resent it.
I wouldn’t mind if the system worked but it doesn’t. All is does is create a 2 tier society that fosters resentment, it doesn’t effectively control population.
Lets have work permits or at the very least a policy of not letting anyone in with a criminal record, Guernsey has had this for over 20 years to keep the scum out.
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Whats with all this Mosque bashing? If there are enough Muslims in the island to justify it then why the heck not? Get off your xenophobic high horses.
I get pretty sick of the Bailiff constantly bigging up Jersey more then it deserves.
The only good unique things about Jersey are our potatos and cows, and that is nothing to do with the people. We are exactly the same as the English, so why must he insist we are a nation. Take your nation and shuv it.
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#21 Lula…I admire your massive strength of character,bringing the truth of your own situation as proof..you knew what you were getting into and got on with it,and even you say “change the record or go home” this multicultural garbage spouted off at the weekend by an unelected one with his unrealistic ideals…is so far removed from reality it’s a shame,only cities seem to be able to accommodate large mixed race and culture melting pots without too much friction,but even then it erupts from time to time in a small place that would have catastrophic consequences….Think
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how sad this all is!
even sadder is that those contesting my appreciation of the positive addition immigrantion makes to the island have no ability whatsoever to enfore their views by way of popular ballot.
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James (#8) whether or not gay people are allowed to get married is a legal matter, not a religious one.
I’ll be honest I have concerns about a mosque in Jersey but it is purely on the basis of what has happened in mosques in the UK and other Western countries. When it comes to the goings on in a place of worship or even just the behaviour of one religious individual then the possible breaching of any naton’s laws MUST be allowed to take precedence over the need for those investigating to respect the laws of the person’s religion. For instance, in the UK women who wear the burqa have had their husbands take their driving tests for them (no I’m not kidding), and are allowed into petrol stations fully covered. However, the law requires the driver to have passed the test, and you are not allowed into petrol stations (or many other places) with a helmet on. As long as Jersey made sure that Jersey laws were being upheld I would not have an issue with a mosque here.
As regards immigration… it is simply common sense that the island can only sustain so many people. Population growth can be bad every bit as much as it can be good. You can’t kick out people that were born here, therefore the only way you can limit populations is by restrictng incomers. So it’s not the best thing in the world but does anyone have any REAL solution?
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Lula made some interesting points… One of my jobs is a job that would have been available to any incomer regardless of nationality. It doesn’t require any specific qualification it just requires experience. However, I found out what was available and what was needed before I came to the island. Most of our potential employees come through the door and simply ask if there are jobs going, but if you are asking at the doors of premises you will be restricted to construction, catering or shop work, mostly.
I do wonder if people who are moaning about their pay and their work have done their homework before coming here (as I did) or if they have just turned up and hoped somehow to land a plum job. As it is I know that some hear how family members are getting on and come over to Jersey and just get a job in the same place. Maybe they don’t always have the qualifications to do something else (although undoubtedly some will).
So life obviously doesn’t work the way they want it to, and rightly so. If I lived in the UK and I just asked around I would also have been limited to construction, catering etc. to get any better paid job I would have to join an agency or recruitment website, formally apply for jobs, be up against other potentially better applicants, and then go to interviews (at my own expense) for jobs I may not even get. All the time affording to live. I assume that if I wanted a well-paid job in Madeira, Poland, India, Italy… that I would also have to go through the normal strict recruitment procedures? But maybe I’m wrong there.
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In support of Truthseeker
The Word declares “Whosoever sojourneth with Israel, if he keeps the law, is entitled to [share in] the blessings of the Land.”
Likewise, if you come to jersey and want to share in the blessings of our Island, then you are welcome to join with us and become a part of our Jersey community by simply accepting the common law of the land, paying due respect to our traditional customs, whether you like them or not, our moral values, Norman heritage, language and general culture.
On the other hand, for those who have immigrated here, whether they be from the UK or elsewhere, who wish to divide our traditional community and cause strife by rejecting our cultural hospitality and values in favour of creating their own separate social or ethnical communities, albeit Rich, Poor, Portuguese, Polish, Islamic or whatever and then start making demands that I and my fellow Islanders should some how pay homage and make concessional allowances for foreign values that our fathers knew not by insinuating that we are no longer a proud Island People of Norman descent who, incidentally unlike any others, chose to become loyal British subjects on our own terms, but are instead to now accept ourselves as some sort of politically correct multicultural ‘moral relative’ miss-mash – then I would say, go to hell!
While everyone should be free to worship however they please, so long as it does not cause harm or injury to others or unlawfully deprive anyone of their property, Multiculturalism and the devious pinheads who promote it, do so in order to deliberately divide communities and cause strife, which in turn promotes more government control, unnecessary laws and statutes and oppressive politically correct regulations and always at an ever increasing cost to the tax payer – when money talks, integrity walks – only over here it’s running – toward dictatorship!
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“exactly the same as the english” utter tripe, I have no english whatsoever in my blood and proud of that fact too, they’re the laughing stock of europe IMHO, sobefore you go all Billy British rule britannia etc take a look at the state of england, it’s government, it’s poor social care and it’s involvment in an illegal war – then try harping on about “only good things here are potatoes and cows” well that’s two things more than you can say about that dreadful sell-out country to the north of us.
To quote you, Marx – “take Your nation, and ‘shuv’ it”
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Multiculturalism has been an utter disaster in the UK. If you look at the Guardian website they are running articles about how the BNP will probably get a European parliament MP not to mention many more councillers in the north of england in the elections on 4 June. Not a vote for multiculturalism
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It is the slow and creeping onset of something larger. Be warned.
It will only be a matter of time before there are calls for aspects of sharia law to be adopted in Jersey. This is already happening in England.
Then what? Hate preachers? Retribution for those who won’t conform? All these things are currently happening just across the water from here.
The difference between the mainstream religions is the fundamentalism associated with it, the ultimate aims of that religion and the lack of tolerance for other belief systems.
Be very careful what you wish for Mr Bailhache.
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“Billy British!?”, “I have no English in my blood and proud of it!?” That’s a bit strong Toby, then again funny to read..
If it wasn’t for the “Country to the North of us” and similar countries you wouldn’t have amongst other things the freedom of speech to say what you have said just remember that.
As for the “Illegal War” you speak about, I’m sure you and your kind will be the first to enjoy any benefits that may arise from the situation as you always have throughout history. Someone else fights the battles, you people then harp on about it, moan and groan about how immoral and wrong it all is, and then accept any benefit to yourselves that may come out of it all when It’s over.
Poor Social Care up North? I was a member of a childrens charity on the Island some years ago where we found ourselves helping out some local families who couldn’t afford shoes for their children to go to school! This, on the so-called richest 9 x 5 Island in the world?
Jersey Government is also in a mess as we all know so I dont think you can comment on the UK, “Pot calling the kettle springs to mind”
By the way It’s a capital “E” when you spell England…
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I’m well aware of the capital, I put it like that purposely
Fair comment re the kettle-pot-black thing but that was a response to the ‘shuv your nation’ comment from Marx so I feel it was justified under the circumstances. I wasn’t trying to say Jersey is better than england, I was merely pointing out that it’s not any worse, as Marx implies.
By the way my name is Tobias not Toby.
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Good point Adrian 15 and excellent point Jersey Bull 28
There is an expression “when in Rome do as the romans do”. Unfortunately most immigrants (foreign & British) these days do not follow this and continuously moan about the way they are treated by their hosts even though they are much, much better off by being here…… otherwise they would surely leave. No-one forces people into the island.
The traditions and beliefs of the hosts tend to be ignored or forgotten whilst the guests try to impose their own way of life. There is no compromise and often no desire to integrate with the people who have so readily welcomed them in.
Over many years of this you’ll find people lose their tolerance and are not so welcoming.
This is all too evident in the UK and it will not be long before there are riots in the streets…..you could cut the tension with a knife. There are already ghettos in every city and no-go zones where the police do not even enter.
So for all the British nationals in Jersey who moan about the locals having the audacity to show discontent with whats happening to their island take a good look at yourselves and your own country. If you can honestly say that you are not reacting hypocritically and actually like the way your own birthplace is crumbling then you must be the do-gooding, pc, human rights waving idiots that are the cause of our troubles in society today.
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#30, you are right in many ways.
The main reason it hasn’t worked in the UK though is the clear lack of desire for people coming in to integrate with others.
The fact is that some of the people coming in simply do not wish to mix with British people. They want to stick to their own culture, and their culture and the British culture may not blend well.
You can’t blame people for sticking with ‘their own’ but it is hardly a recipe for successful integration is it?
I do take issue with anyone who dislikes where they are enough to leave but then just takes the same problems, the same attitudes and the same culture with them to their new place. If I moved to Italy I would make becoming absolutely fluent in Italian my priority and I would mix with Italians.
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Leah – I am fluent in Italian and lived there with my mother while she was doing her thesis – when i tried moving over there it was 9 weeks before I could even get my paperwork signed and nobody will employ you unless you have these papers… the system over there is very strict and against people coming in to work… I can’t help but feel that this island needs a policy like that – work permits are the way to go.
Totally agree with Lula as well – try integrating with the locals and then you might find some more tolerance… not teaching your children english puts a strain on our islands teachers. I heard a 6 year old english kid was pulled out of class and is now on report for advising his classmate “we dont speak portuguese here”
why is a 6 year old on report for pointing out that the school isn’t in portugal?
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Absolutely unbelievable – but expected from the closed-minded nitwits that inhabit these forums. On the very day that we celebrate the Island’s liberation from opression, and the return of natural/democratic freedoms we are subjected to this nonsense.
Liberation Day is about celebrating our Rights & Freedoms; freedom of speech, thought, religion, etc. The right of sovereignty over our lives and self-determination. Rights and Freedoms developed over mileniums of evolution of thought and (sometimes violent) struggle.
Just so long as you’re not a Muslim. Or gay. Or maybe black? Or your opinion differs from ‘local thought’?
Heaven help me, but it appears Stuart was right: This place is becoming more and more like the dictatorship of North Korea.
And as for ‘contributing to Island life’ and respecting Island ‘Heritage’, how many of the protectionist loudspeakers here are involved in the Island community? Are there any Honoraries here? How about volunteers for Jersey Heritage? Any volunteers at all? Do any of the ‘local’ mouthpieces contribute to society? I thought not. Just a bunch of small minded folks willing to benefit from the fruits of others’ labours and struggles and claim the benefits as their own.
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lol Steve C – does helping out at the societe jersaise count towards your “contributing to island life” or performing at heritage historical sites?
What is your contribution other than slagging off people you know nothing about?
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Long time since i heard the word “nitwit”!
I see you also inhabit these forums Steve?
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SteveC, firstly you should note that I’m not from Jersey. However, as I’m living here I do contribute to community life here. Contributing to the community is not just about taking part in charity work or being an honorary (which I wouldn’t be entitled to do anyway!) etc. It is about getting to know people at your work, at your kids’ school and in your neighbourhood, regardless of their nationality. In my case it is about helping encourage and nurture young people (now friends) whose families fail them time and time again.
I see plenty of Asian people and black people about Jersey on a day to day basis. There may not be a mosque but there are plenty of Christian denominations with no representation in Jersey. I’ve also met quite a few gay people.
Jersey may not be full of gay culture but then Jersey is a lot smaller than other places that are. Glasgow can have a Mosque because the catchment area for it is massive (you could easily drive there from various places). In Jersey you would have to be one of the 95,000 that are in Jersey to use it.
I think maybe you’ll find that with the issues you raise it is simply a case of supply and demand rather than racism or narrowmindedness!
As for the other people commenting on here, I don’t think anyone is expecting people to be treated any differently than they would be if they went elsewhere. As I said, if I went to Italy I would become fluent in Italian, I think it’s perfectly fair to expect people to make an effort to become fluent in English if they move to Jersey. Personally I also think it’s fair to make English the language in the workplace.
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Stefan #36, would be interesting to know what the rules are for all other countries worldwide. I have met plenty of Polish people here who are happy and do not moan, they made their decision to come here and they stand by it, however, they learned English. Presumably those that moan would moan wherever in the world they went!
Inverness (Scotland) has a similar problem with its schools now. Polish parents have put their kids (with absolutely NO English) into schools that quite rightly teach in English and English only. The amount of attention these kids are needing detracts from the education of the rest of the class and other parents are rightly getting upset. So now taxpayers money is spent bringing in people to teach in Polish! Some of the parents aren’t even learning English so they are of no help to their kids on that front. Totally unbelievable. And I can only assume that they have every intention of leaving once Poland’s economy picks up or Britain’s gets too dire for them to want to stay because otherwise they would surely learn the language.
When my friend went to work in Japan for a year he put his kids into an international school to maintain their education fully for that year. These parents are not only failing their kids they are being bigoted and selfish by not learning the official language of the nation thereby intentionally segregating themselves from British people.
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Steve……
Women can’t buy contraceptives from a pharmacy because it infringes the chemists religious beliefs…..is that freedom?
You say in the same comment these forums are all full of closed minded nitwits and then say we should be celebrating freedom of speach and though. Are we all closed minded nitwits because our free speach & thought doesn’t match yours….hypocrite!
What has being an Honorary got anything to do with contributing towards the islands community? We all know they are jumped up power mongers who wouldn’t get any respect otherwise, plus we wouldn’t really need them so much if crime wasn’t rife …… mainly due to immigration!
Most of the comments are not directed at faith, religion, creed or colour. I think you’ll find people are fed up with the overpopulation of the island and the lack of desire from the immigrants to integrate and then receive our generous hospitality only to condemn the local population for the harsh treatment they receive.
You’ll probably find that the vast majority of us on these forums do contribute immensely to society….even if it’s just by the taxes we pay and by following the laws of the island……unlike plenty of those we are all losing tolerance with.
Remember, a lot of immigrants (11k’s) actually have the biggest influence on the decisions made by our “local” politicians!
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No No No
What exactly is wrong with some aspects of Sharia Law being adopted in Jersey? This is an international finance centre and if a significant proportion of the world’s wealthy thought they could use Sharia for business purposes then it might bring more wealth to the island. This is no different from the use of the Beth Din in the UK with the caveat that it must not conflict with the principles of local law.
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Maybe the Bailif should speak to the Balinese and see what they think about his ideas?
SteveC as per locals, we are here through birth and because we love the place and because it is our home. We are not economic migrants out to get what we can out of the place before moving on to pastures new.
We want our island to be as good for our children and grand children as it was for us. We don’t want to live in a place that ends up as an overpriced, concrete jungle run by rich cartels, where the indigenous population are frowned upon for daring to voice concern over the state of their island. This is not racist it is a plain statement of fact, Jersey cannot keep taking anyone who pays the boat fayre here. It is not like Australia which could easily absorb millions of people.
As far as I am concerned anyone not born here is very lucky to be here and should be prepared to pay for this priviledge and not expect preferential treatment even over the local population.
If I was lucky enough to get into a decent country, from a worse one, I would be so pleased to get in, and not running my new country down because I wasn’t getting what I thought I deserved. I also wouldn’t be racist to the locals in my adopted country, or look down on them. This is not the way to get on, or to make friends is it? How do you think these type of people should/would get treated? Do you think they deserve to be allowed into a better country, if this is the way they act to their new countryfolk?
I don’t care what anyone thinks of me. I speak as I find. I believe in what I say. Others can believe what they want. I do my own bit for the community but don’t brag about it and don’t expect recognition for any good deeds done like some do.
I don’t benefit from anyone’s labour as I don’t run a business. I never claim anyone’s work as my own, I leave that for others to do.
I believe in an all inclusive society where everyone pulls their weight according to their abilities and not by what they can get away with.
I am not against some coming here who are willing to pay their way, and I would prefer more of Leah’s type to the many we seem to be attracting. I don’t view this as being racist, it is down to wanting a decent society to live in for everyone over here. Yes I would gain, but so would everyone else, without exception, what is wrong with that? I don’t just weigh gain in monetary terms, I view it in terms of quality of life. Others only see pound signs. These we can do without as they are only interested in themselves and no one else. I myself would prefer them to go elsewhere.
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Boris, I understand your position but this would probably just cause more segregation rather than help integration.
While many aspects of Sharia Law have their place, too many are incompatable with the Declaration of Human Rights.
If I wanted to live under Sharia Law I would go live in a country where it is already enforced. That would be the obvious and fair choice, leaving countries with more Westernised laws open to those who don’t want to live under Sharia Law. That way everyone has somewhere with laws they can happily live under.
Surely part of the beauty of this world is that all countries are different with different laws and cultures, why try and make them all the same.
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BS Deluxe
“What has being an Honorary got anything to do with contributing towards the islands community? We all know they are jumped up power mongers who wouldn’t get any respect otherwise, plus we wouldn’t really need them so much if crime wasn’t rife”
I respect your right to free speech. But it would mean so much more were it not bigoted and said in ignorance.
Still it nice to know “you” need honoraries even if you do despise them .
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Leah you really don’t appear to get the point which is my fault for not explaining myself properly, sorry about that. Sharia Law as far as the conduct of business is concerned is specific to the needs of the Moslem world but as with the Beth Din (Rabbinical Law) may have certain advantages.
In the UK you can opt for the jurisdiction of the Beth Din to resolve business disputes and they are subordinate to the UK legal system with the UK courts being there as a point of appeal and nothing in the decision of the Beth Din may conflict with the principles of English Law.
As an international finance centre we could probably attract a lot of business of we adopted a similar process in the commercial sector. As you will now appreciate we are not talking about cutting off hands or feet or whatever other horror stories you can come up with but we are dealing with contract and business law, any decision reached would be appealable to the normal Jersey court if it was argued that it conflicted with the fundamental principles of Jersey Law
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Boris, if it could be adopted only in business then I have no issue with that.
I wasn’t going on about cutting off of hands or anything like that, most of Sharia Law is not extreme, much as we get the scare stories on TV! I was just referring to things like the status of women, which obviously would not go down well in Western countries.
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Wow. Some people.
My limited Jersey history leads me to believe that there aren’t that many ‘native’ people on this Island. This isn’t Africa. We are not the cradle of mankind. We are an Island made up of immigrants. Am I stating the obvious when I point out that most of us (I am one) ‘good Jersey boys’ are descended from, er Frenchmen. That’s right, immigration made this island and will continue to do so.
We’ve gone from knitting sweaters and pulling spuds to running hotels and restaurants. Now we administer some of the worlds most complex financial instruments and structures. All in about three generations.
I think some of you people should look back through your own family histories and have a good think about where you ‘came from’ before you jump on the immigration hobby horse. Without imported intellect and muscle power, as far as I can see this Island couldn’t cope.
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J Cat (49) “immigration made this island and will continue to do so”
Yes, it certainly did. It made this island overpopulated, overpriced, polluted, and basically an unpleasant place to live. All, as you say, in about three generations. And you’re also correct in that it will continue to do so, especially if we keep the gates wide open to anyone that can afford a boat ticket here.
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Comment 49 J Cat – amen for common sense, you are absolutely right Jersey has the population of a small – medium sized town and owes it’s sucess to an immigrant workforce.
You can’t take all the benefits that they bring and complain when they also bring some cultural differences with them.
Show me a Jerseyman of pure blood ( ie no ancestors from outside the island ) and I’ll show you a liar.
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Ray, I’m not sure anyone was moaning about people bringing cultural differences with them. From what I can see the annoyance lies with those that clearly keep themselves segregated from anyone that is not of the same nationality as them. Which is only some of the immigrants? Plenty, like me, mix quite happily with people of any nationality.
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Ray Needay Cultural differences are fine as long as they don’t swamp the native culture. When they do you get problems. Try saying that in England and see the reaction you will get from Middle England.
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having left the forces and deciding to stay in germany i was told that i,d have to speak their language and be able to read and understand german as it was me who wanted to be in their country and as such i,d have to intergrate. Its about time that happened here as i,m tired of being spoken to in a foreign language then being given a snarl when i speak in english
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We should give all Immigrants the same rights as the European Union give to Jersey people – that is no rights at all – We will turn a blind eye to you working here illegally whist is suits us and we will deport you if you become inconvenient – You can also buy a house but make sure you don’t upset anybody in authority. And to be sure we will put a stamp in your passport, the same us Jersey people have in theirs, to mark you as “unter menschlichen” or “not equal” because that is what Jersey people have to put up with in the EU – it is not nice so think yourselves lucky that you have come to a caring society. Yes we have housing restrictions but be fair, we are a very small island and you are always free to go home.
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Adrian – I think for the first time I agree with you.
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Sanity 55 – let’s get this straight, Jersey is not part of Europe because it elected not to be in order to retain it’s status as an offshore financial centre.
The benefits this brings are enormous, one small drawback is the lack of rights in Europe. Europe did not reject Jersey – Jersey rejected Europe. This is typical of the Jerseyman’s view that we’ll take the benefit but not accept the downside as with immigration.
If you had your way we’d all be wearing the equivalant of yellow star of David’s on our arms or carrying bells and shouting unclean, except of course when we are doing the jobs you don’t want or paying your mortgages with our inflated rent.
Thanks Massa for letting me eat your crumbs.
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Ray Needay – No I don’t advocate any such thing. I was just pointing out that that compared to the restrictions faced by Jersey People in Europe you have nothing to complain about.
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Good one Ray we could have little blue EU badges sewn into our clothing so that the locals could boo and hiss at us as we walked in the gutter whilst they got the pathement. Maybe we could get a sort of ‘Missippi Burning’ scene going on ‘seperate but equal’ well seperate but not quite.
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Ray, Jersey ‘rejecting’ Europe does not explain why it is easier for people to move to Jersey than it is for Jersey people to move abroad. Not just Jersey people either, as someone else pointed out if you move to Italy far more is expected of you than Jersey expects of incomers. Maybe it’s time every country adopted the exact same rules. The first of which should me back an effort to learn the official language of the country you move to.
You also forget that EVERY nation relies on immigrant workforces. Stop harping on as if it’s just Jersey and Jersey owes the ‘outside world’ some great vote of thanks. Jersey-born people often move and work elsewhere, are they being thanked for their ‘imported intellect’?
Being an immigrant here (as I am) does not mean you are above the law or that people should just put up with rude behaviour from you. Next time I am made to wait a ridiculously long time in a queue because the staff member is intentionally delaying everything to enjoy a loud chat in Portugese with a customer who speaks Portugese I think I’ll bother myself to report them. We specify that only English is to be spoken in front of customers, it’s about time other places did too.
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Lets get one thing straight I never elected to be outside of Europe I had this foisted on me by a government who wished to protect finance from the EU. This is the reality of things.
I believe if Jersey had used its nowse it could have been in the EU and kept its precious finance by agreement. If you question this then answer me how does Luxemburg get away with being a finance centre then if the EU doesn’t allow these things?
As per the “we can do what we want if we are beholdent to no one” this doesn’t hold water, does it, as Jersey has to bow down to what the EU imposes anyway, so what is the point of being outside looking in?
Now how many non locals work in finance? Quite a few. Do these people get restrictions put in their passports to make things awkward for them in Europe? Answer no they don’t, so why should some people over here be treated as second class citizens in Europe when anyone from the EU can come and work here no questions asked?
This is the reality of things for Channel Islanders who are more closely related to their cousins in Europe than the rest of Britain who have stood in splendid isolation for hundreds of years. I for one am treated as a foreigner in my ancestral homeland of France because of this system, yet an English person can go and live in France no questions asked. This is just plain stupid as far as I am concerned.
I myself would prefer no silly stamps especially in this “terrorist” age as I get fed up being questioned by border guards overseas who wonder what the hell is going on.
It is mentioned above about being branded as different, well some locals are, and have a stamp in their passport to prove it. Is this what an all inclusive community is all about? Some being more equal than others?
Yes migrants to Jersey often get rubbish accommodation to live in when they first come here. However they know the score, if they don’t like it why come here? It couldn’t be anything to do with wanting a better life for themselves could it? Well sometimes this means sacrifices doesn’t it? My ancestors lived in rubbish accommodation but they put up with it as they knew long term their decendents would be better off. Do people now expect an easy ride or something?
Yes it would be fine and dandy if everyone could live in nice accommodation but this is unlikely to ever happen is it? Keep bringing in loads of people and this will become nothing but a dream to most. We can’t house what we have now so why make matters even worse by bringing in more people? I see it as a case of greed for more money. More people means more development and more profit for the developers however who wants to live in an overcrowded disgruntled concrete jungle? Answer no one.
I would ask anyone not local how they view migrants to their own countries? As equals with equal rights to housing and benefits or as a nuisance or even worse? Every country I have ever visited, without exception, takes exception to large numbers of migrants. Would these people also expect their own to be housed ahead of immigrants or not?
As per housing qualifications these need a big overhaul. Housing shouldn’t be used as a population control as it has failed to work and has only made matters worse. I would have a scheme like Australia so that only what was needed would be allowed in. What wasn’t needed wouldn’t be let in. If its good enough for other countries its good enough for Jersey isn’t it?
However even for what I have said above I do agree residential accommodation should be improved for all regardless of origons. The States should sort this out.
The qualifing period to buy is the same for everyone local and non-local alike so there is no discrimination here. However a few migrants get a buy now ticket and jump the queue on grounds of having money. I am sorry but in my opinion this is wrong, as everyone should be treated the same, as far as practically possible.
These are my own views on things as a man with a stamp in his passport. Luckily only 5-6,000 others get treated like this. Which begs the question, why bother in a trading block of 340M people to segregate a few thousand? What difference does it really make? I would say zero to all intents and purposes.
I also ask why should two islanders be treated differently because one has one EU grandparent and no other EU nationals in their family versus one who has no EU grandparents in their family but 8 great grandparents who were EU nationals? Which one deserves an EU passport more? I would say the one with 8 great grandparents but this isn’t the case is it?
So we have the person with one grandparent allowed free access in the EU but the other one has a nice little stamp in their passport. However both are born in Jersey and both have Jersey parents! A joke or what?
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