Brawled out
Monday 18th May 2009, 3:00PM BST.
The referee delays the start of the fith round of the title fight as a tussle breaks out in the crowd. Picture by Jon Guegan (00693928)
A JERSEY Thai boxer’s dreams of becoming British champion were wrecked by his own supporters on Saturday night.
A large brawl in the audience caused the referee to stop the final round for about five minutes – just when Islander Michael Blood seemed to have reigning champion Thomas McCormack well and truly on the ropes.
Blood was heading for glory against a man unbeaten in Britain in scores of contests. But it seemed that the delay in the fifth round gave his opponent the opportunity to compose himself and find enough strength to secure a points victory, holding off a spirited onslaught from the local fighter.
Sections of the 900-strong crowd at Fort Regent had been involved in skirmishes during the top-of-the-bill Muay Thai bout. The referee decided that he wanted the end of the contest delayed until order had been restored.
Doormen called the police as a result of disturbances. A 19-year-old man was the only person arrested.
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The fact that 900 people in Jersey would even consider any form of boxing, Thai or otherwise, entertainment is a sad commentary on a so called civilised society.
That some of them were unable to behave further reinforces my view of this “sport”.
To all those who will now write in telling me all about character building, self control,gentlemanliness and all the other benefits allegedly attributable to boxing – go and tell them to someone who wasn’t forced to watch fellow schoolboys giving each others bloody noses in the ring at Victoria College in the 1950s.
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No surprise.We don t know how 2 beave
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R B Bougourd
Just because you’ve had a bad experience doesn’t mean it’s not civilised for people to watch a physical contest of honed strength and skill. The contest was between two consenting adults who have trained harder and focused more than most ever will to reach a goal, respect each other, are respected by a following of fans and are well rewarded.
Martial arts and combat techniques have been practised for thousands of years by nations and cultures regarded as some of the most advanced and civilised.
Have you never heard of a brawl outside of a boxing match? Say in a pub, in the street? Far more punch ups are caused after a football game than any boxing match. I think you’ll find the pattern behind such behaviour lies behind the fact that some idiots are not able to handle their drink and have nothing to do with the associated sport.
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R B Bougourd jus because you got you butt kicked in School dont spoil it for the rest of us …wuss
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good advert for jersey tourism , how the locals behave, this ones global.
come to jersey and roll in the gutter.
what a shame.
apparently it had taken months to get this here.
maybe never to return.
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This surely must finally nail the argument that watching socially sanctioned violence does not envourage people to behave more aggressively? Would the crowd would have behaved the same way if they were watching pantomime?
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Some predictable responses already.
Go on, kid yourselves by all means that this so called sport has a place in a civilised world. Nothing will change my view which is undoubtedly shared by many – even without having to witness what I saw.
Carl Marx #4. Presumably you know me as the incident you described actually happened.
If it had happened nowadays the member of staff who did it (mistaking me for another boy who he intensly disliked and addressing me by the other boy’s name)would have been locked up for his sadism.
And Joker, don’t start me on the connection between football and the brainless!
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Who says Jersey is a poor value destination for tourists? Go to the Fort and get two fights for the price of one…
I must say that they had stopped official boxing when I was at Vic College in the early 80′s, but you could always rely on the older boys for a good kicking in the “playground”. Very character forming all around.
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I’d like to point out that this isn’t the 1950′s anymore, and that sort of thing no longer happens, certainly not at Vic anyway.
Someone on this thread clearly had a bad experience at school, and that has given them a chip on their shoulder and a biased view point towards all combat sports…I got beaten down in a “self-defence” class organised at Victoria College by a 40-something karate teacher, that never quelled my enthuiasm for martial arts.
That being said, Thai Boxing has been around for hundreds of years as a traditional form of martial arts intially designed for use in battle. Since then it has become a valuable part of Thailands heritage and way of life, it’s not just about two people beating each other senseless as certain people would believe. Having spent part of my time as a martial artist actually training in thailand, i can assure you that some of the most vicious fighters i know come from that area, yet outside of the ring, they are perfect gentlemen, completely humble, and an ambassador far more worthy of respect than an over-paid glorified footballer in the UK.
The fact that a brawl broke out in the crowd, would leave me believing that these people who were involved in said dispute were in fact, NOT thai boxers.
I’d say that more altercations take place in the middle of town on a friday/saturday night over a spilt pint/cracking onto someones girlfriend…does that mean we’re going to admonish the consumption of alcohol and socialising with women too?
Don’t get me wrong, i don’t condone the brawl in anyway shape or form, i think it’s despicable, but to call the sport itself a disgrace because of one instance of violence is a little bit narrow minded, no?
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Karen Eliot
Following your argument through to its logical conclusion we must ban every sport or activity where a minority of idiots have been known to cause trouble. I hope you don’t follow any of the mainstream religions because if we measure the order of banning priority by the number of people who have suffered as a result of that activity they would be top of your list. With only tidily winks left it will only be a matter of time before someone cries foul, starts a fight and we ban that too!
RB Bougourd – you’re the one kidding yourself there’s an issue with the sport the first place. And yes informed people who partake in such sports do suffer potential consequences, but then I hope you don’t ever drive a car, ride a bike or cross a road…
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Joker, whether or not “there’s an issue with the sport in the first place” I certainly have an issue with so called sports based on the concept of assaulting another person.
This is because of the message which it sends out about hitting people, not because consenting participants might get hurt. Cf. Banger Racing!
I would prefer that you do not ascribe comments to me which I have not made.
As you have decided to introduce the topic of risk, fine, let them damage each other’s bodies if that’s what they want.
Perhaps you think it is great to go around sporting a broken nose, cauliflower ears and appearing gaga like Muhammad Ali. If that is what turns you on don’t let me stop you.
If you would care to read what I actually wrote, I think you will find that it was that it was that boxing is out of place in a civilised world. (So is war before some bright spark decides to point that out to me, using the time honoured trick of finding something worse in an attempt to ameliorate the original offence).
Your fatuous comment about the level of risk that I should or should not take in everyday life is hardly worth countering. Suffice it to say that I undertake risks far beyond that involved in commenting on these pages.
Enjoy your boxing and I will enjoy making love not war.
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“I certainly have an issue with so called sports based on the concept of assaulting another person.”
So would you consider rugby a sport which involves assault because one of the objects of the game is to violently floor your opponent? Water polo where you are allowed to drown your opponent and all other kinds of underwater physical abuse if they hold the ball? Football where a sliding tackle may result in the broken legs of your opponent even if they make contact with the ball? Does horse racing encourage people to be cruel to animals when they see them being whipped?
“This is because of the message which it sends out about hitting people…”
I feel patronised that you think that I and other people are not socially intelligent enough to distinguish between an organised consented bout and a punch up in the street. You actually think that because people see boxing matches they will all assume it is acceptable to go around boxing people whenever they feel? I think I speak for most when I say that watching a boxing match (or watching a violent film for that matter) does not make me want to go out and recreate what I have seen for real. Why? Well for starters I have morals and secondly I respect those in the ring are specialists in what they do, i.e. I’m not going to recreate what they do because quite frankly I don’t have a clue how to box.
I accept there are a few mentally unstable people out there who choose to recreate what they have seen and inflict damage on others. But like I said if these sports/media need to be banned we’re not going to be left with much – and it won’t stop this minority from continuing to carry out acts of mindless violence. In a day and age where big brother and PC are eroding our liberties I think banning contact sports is yet another way of telling people how to live their lives. I appreciate you don’t like it or it makes you feel uncomfortable but that doesn’t mean it is uncivilised.
Surely a civilised society is one where its people can appreciate the skill involved in such contact sports and distinguish between a controlled environment between consenting adults and recreating violence on random people minding their own business?
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The ability to commit a violent act is within every single one of us. It is written into our genes. Some of us are more prone to it than others but it is there nonetheless.
Whatever your views on boxing, if it were banned officially it would continue unofficially and without the numerous safeguards that exist in modern amateur boxing.
The rules for boxing are published on the ABA website and a read of them would show that safety is paramount. For example, if a boxer is hit with a hard blow to the head he is likely to be banned from even training for 28 days. Twice in a season and the ban is for two months, a third in a season and the boxer cannot even train for a years.
Injuries are rare, serious injuries are virtually unheard of. So few and far are they that they make headlines when they do occur.
Serious injuries on the rugby field – where people do punch, bite, kick and stamp on each other regularly – are far more common.
I would prefer to see boxing controlled (I don’t consider Thai boxing to have anywhere near as many safeguards as boxing does but I stand to be corrected) rather than have it go underground where people would get killed.
As for RB Bougeard’s statement “sporting a broken nose, cauliflower ears and appearing gaga like Muhammad Ali”, this is a weak and rather insulting statement. Boxers do not look or act like that!
Cauliflower ears and broken noses are more likely to be found on rugby players – I have never seen a boxer with such ears in many, many years of being involved in the sport. The only person ‘appearing gaga like Muhammad Ali’ is the great man himself who suffers from Parkinson’s disease – any link to boxing is tenuous and unproven.
It is of course a matter of opinion whether boxing has its place in society and I fully understand its detractors views. However, in my view, boxing gives more to society than it takes away and so long as it is entered into on a voluntary and informed basis, with all the safeguards attached, I see no problem with it.
I know many men who would have spent their lives in an out of jail had it not been for boxing to give them respect, discipline and a goal.
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R B Bougourd, I want to agree with you, I fully understand where you’re coming from and there is solid evidence between constant bangs to the head and resulting brain damage, however that happens in sports other than just boxing.
I would love a world where any form of ‘fighting’ was banned, but I agree totally with Nioleux. We are made to love violence, unfortunately. It sickens me, but apparently even the most pacifist between us could be taken to a place where we enjoyed it to some degree because it is within our makeup.
Personally I think violent video games, violent music and violent programmes and films are causing a bigger problem in our society than organised boxing.
One thing I would go for though, is that treatment of self-induced injuries is entirely paid for by the person and not in any way subsidised by any Government, but I’d say that for all people and all self-induced afflictions.
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“Personally I think violent video games, violent music and violent programmes and films are causing a bigger problem in our society…”
Leah I have to say I’ve never read anything more ridiculous in my life.
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just because I have not mentioned injuries sustained in other “sports” does not mean that I am somehow Picking on boxing.
I also totally agree with Leah about video games etc.
If Joker considers Leah’s comment to be the most ridiculous reading in his/her life then he/she is a lost cause as far as I’m concerned.
I would go even further than Leah and suggest that bad behaviour on “East Enders” etc is infectious. Just look at the way that their agressive body language and speech is widely copied.
To Nioleux, I agree fully that there could be something in peoples’ make up that craves violent entertainment, but that might have predated civilised behaviour.
Yes, boxers often do appear as I have described. Certainly more often than non boxers!
I didn’t just dream up the description.
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The whole argument that video-games are directly correlated to the increase in violence in our society is archaic, to say the very least. There has never, ever, ever been a study made that officially proves that, to put it in the simplest terms possible “video games cause violence”. Maybe i’m selling the posters on this forum short, but i would suggest that violent tendancies have been pre-built into certain individuals minds long before a computer game has the opportunity to psychologically affect the user. In short, i agree entirely with Joker. That post is old-fashioned and mis-informed. If someone has relevant and scientific proof against this, please, share it with the rest of the class.
To make the argument that those that partake in sports that could end in injury have to pay for all medical expenses themselves is discriminatory to those who could not perhaps afford the medical treatment of said injuries.
You are essentially stopping those who live below their means from partaking in a physically demanding sport (not neccesarily boxing) that would allow someone controlled release of stress, something that HAS been proven by scientific study.
Based on your argument “…but I’d say that for all people and all self-induced afflictions” you’d deny anyone medical care who’s the victim of an accident by their own wrong-doing. I don’t even need to point out the flaws in that statement.
The teaching of discipline in martial arts is prioritised (and has been from the beginning) over all other principles. A student learns first to use the tools they are given as a form of meditation and control. Whether someone chooses to use them irresponsibly outside of the Dojo/Gym etc. is entirely at their own discretion. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine is that martial arts teach a discipline that is sorely lacking in the culture of today. Those who use them irresponsibly should be punished on a case by case basis, as opposed to just condemning the entirety of the sport as a whole…that’s what we call close-minded thinking.
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Bougourd
So where do you draw the line as to what activities we should and shouldn’t do? Would you prefer we all lived accommodation where all the walls were padded, all physical sports were banned, computers were in control of all machinery, only antiques road show or songs of praise on TV, the thought police condemned any violent or wrongful thoughts, we take drugs to control our basic emotions or all act like Spock? Sounds like you want a repressive world which is a cross between 1984 and THX1138. I think it is you who is the lost cause.
I’ll go further on John’s comment – ever heard of ‘Art imitating life, imitating art’? I think you’ll find that the East Enders “agressive body language and speech” is a result of the producers of that dross copying East End slang/street talk etc. Life and violence came well before gaming and other media. Media simply reflects human life and isn’t the cause of it.
Again – to say that I or anyone else is incapable of distinguishing between 2D violence and the horrors and consequences of real violence is patronising.
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RB Bougourd you suggest that a craving for violent entertainment might have predated civilised behaviour. You clearly have no understanding of genetics or psychology.
You also say that boxers, more often than non boxers, often do sport broken noses, cauliflower ears and appearing gaga like Muhammad Ali”.
In 30 odd years in the sport I have met just 1 boxer with cauliflower ears. However, he only ever boxed once and got his ears from playing rugby. Not every boxer breaks their nose – I never did and it rarely occurs in amateur boxing.
I have never met anyone appearing gaga like Muhammad Ali as a result of boxing. Not one.
As for your “Certainly more often than non boxers!” I find equally hard to fathom. Do you simply guess that anyone who has certain physical characteristics are boxers and conclude that those without are not? Is that your logic?
So no, you didn’t just dream up the description, you simply attached it to your own prejudiced stereotypical view.
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Joker
I really wish that you would stop ascribing comments to me that I have not made. Perhaps your psuedonym is sending a subtle message?
If you would care to go back to the beginning you will find that I felt that finding boxing entertaining was a sad commentary on a civilised society. I stick by this. It’s my opinion.
Nowhere have I said anything about drawing lines or banning anything. In fact at one point i suggested that you go and enjoy it.
I certainly don’t “want a repressive world which is a cross between 1984 and THX1138.” (whatever THX1138 is – I will Google it in a minute)
I am in favour of quite a few freedoms, some of which we have already lost and others which are rapidly disappearing. (I also lead a lifestyle which is a bit too uninhibited for Jersey!)
I am sure that art does imitate life although in many cases the fiction predates reality (I don’t think there were Droogs around before “A Clockwork Orange).
However mass communication does propagate antisocial ideas to people who sometimes would be better off without them. I stand by my comments on received behaviour from East Enders. I don’t imagine that many people outside London would have embraced that culture without the help of television, do you?
Those who deny the existence of copycat behaviour usually have a vested interest in its continuation. Or else they haven’t fully thought it through.
Finally, I don’t share your view that (presumably) everyone is capable “of distinguishing between 2D violence and the horrors and consequences of real violence” (once again not actually my statement).
You know your own judgement so no problem for you. However quite a few others may not be so blessed.
As far as your ongoing contention with my view is concerned it would appear that because you are upset with me having the gall to dislike something which you enjoy, then you feel the need to “hit below the belt” by misrepresenting the fairly basic thrust of my comments.
In relation to this thread topic, all I would like to see is a less pugilistic world. Full Stop.
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I would like to point out, before we really start drifting off topic…Mr Bougourd I assume that your comments are directed towards combat sports as a whole, and not just boxing…because this is in relation to THAI boxing, which is an entirely different animal to boxing altogether, i’m sure you are aware, I just want to be clear where you stand.
In some ways I agree with you…but then again, I have never considered the society in which we live to be “civilised”.
I assume it is the violence that you find abhorrent in boxing, not the principles for which it stands. Boxing is sport, sport is competition, and the human psyche craves competition. It’s also in our nature to be fascinated by violence. Whether you are for or against it, you have to admit, it’s an argument on which everyone has an opinion.
Whilst some would argue that this makes us “uncivilised”, I would argue that this is man at his most raw. Combat sports enable someone to erase the pressures and worries that we take for granted nowadays, and reduce it to the purest form of competition. It’s an issue that polarises everyone, you’re either in support of these kinds of activities, or you’re against them.
Finally, I find it worrying that you have not retracted your comment about a “gaga” Muhammed Ali. Not only is this comment highly innappropriate, but it’s also insulting someone who (forget about the accomplishments he made as a boxer) is a magnificent representative of our world.
This was a man who refused to fight in a war he felt was unjust, someone who was erudite, well spoken, educated and a wonderful human being, regardless of what he chose to do as a profession. I find it unneccesary to mention the things he did for the sport of boxing, as this would not alter your opinion by the looks of things…but at the very least, you can retract that comment.
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RB Bougourd
Let me explain my assumptions. The fact you dislike boxing and you find East Enders threatening to society (based on your assumption that “bad behaviour” of that kind on screen “is infectious”) I think it was fair of me to assume you lean towards the more conservative side of censorship – do you agree? Based on the fact you feel that this bad behaviour, or light tension I think is more accurate, between characters (I consider it light in comparison to say Brian De Palmer’s Scarface) is “infectious” I think it also fair to assume that you would like to see such pre watershed dramas toned down further so that we have pretty much no tension at all on screen just in case it was reflected on the street?
Assuming I’m correct so far I consider such censorship extreme and along the lines of Mary Whitehouse and others trying to ban Rock music because it was music of the devil etc. based on the myth that a few bad apples are going to copy cat and therefore it is not expectable for anyone. Such heavy censorship paves the way for other kinds of repression – or extreme PC which is the same thing. A state like that is comparable to 1984/THX1138 (the latter I’m sure you now know what it is about).
You use the cover of “opinion” as one where I’m not to be worried because it is just your opinion and that’s it. It doesn’t take many opinions for today’s government to pass law on something the majority do not want.
I do not deny the existence of copy cat behaviour… but it is impossible to prove who is copying who. You use Droogs as an example – the author Burgess got that idea from a real gang that attacked his wife during the war and then based them on Teddy Boys and Rockers who already existed… No doubt you will say inspired by other pop culture – that’s right that evil pop music!
Joking aside I find censorship erodes our freedoms and it should be up to the individual to decide. Violence on the street is always going to happen and will flourish amongst those mindless enough without inspiration from media.
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Joker, This is becoming a bit like Adrian v Reg on religion!
Please, please, please read what I am saying and not what you would like to think might be my opinion on watersheds, drawing lines and banning things. Your latest assumptions, my views on censorship, are wide of the mark as well.
Most of this correspondence is as a result of people reading too much into my original post, which is still stands.
For John, again if you would care to re read said post you will find that I was aware that it was Thai Boxing – which I have always assumed (me assuming this time) to be based on the concept of attacking another person. A quick Google to make sure came up with,inter alia,
“Forget the Marquess of Queensbury…in Thai boxing, almost anything goes”
and
“Little people kick ass on each other with nasty fighting”
I thought I’d better check – in case I’d got it wrong through lack of experience in these matters.
I also just checked “gaga” (for John) and came up with “confused and suffering some memory loss as a result of old age” so despite the confused and suffering from memory loss being fairly appropriate to head injuries, I was wrong not to realise the involvement of old age.
Searches also suggest that Ali’s parkinsonism could have been triggered by head blows.
The other thing I checked, and that was before typing it the first time, was the preferred spelling of Muhammad Ali.
Like I said before, enjoy your boxing. I don’t care for it but obviously three of you do quite passionately.
The site has wisely moved this thread away from the current comments so let’s just leave it there.
Over, down and out (for the count!)
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R.B. Bougourd…wonderful, you’ve gone PAST the wikipedia entry where you’d be more likely to get factual information, and instead looked at two YOUTUBE clips with a description written by the user who posted the video.
Well, i’m glad you’re well informed now. For the record though, if someone starts referring to gramatical errors in other users posts, it’s generally a sign that they’ve run out of facts to support their own argument.
Winner by TKO…factual argument.
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The Wikipedia article was far too long winded to quote and excruciatingly boring to non aficionados like me.
On the other hand the two excerpts that I used were short and to the point.
Best of all, they suited my argument.
That’s what I call research!
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