Plans for homes at Hotel de Normandie
Tuesday 26th May 2009, 2:56PM BST.
A model of the proposed development on the site of the Hotel de Normandie
ANOTHER hotel could be demolished and replaced with housing.
The two-star Hotel de Normandie has been serving the Island’s tourism industry for decades but could be replaced with houses and flats.
It was once a popular retreat for visitors, set in one of Jersey’s tourist heartlands, near town and the Havre des Pas bathing pool.
But the building is now too old to meet the standards of today’s visitor and the owner, Robyn Lapidus, cannot afford to redevelop it.
Instead, if plans are approved, he intends to turn the site into 23 houses and 17 apartments.
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Great another load of houses and flats for the youth of jersey to look at and say….if only i could afford to buy…if only i had a job!!! Keep the hotel open, redevelop it using local tradesmen, once it was up and running give jobs to locals, in the restaurant, the bar, reception, maids and so on! Surely that would be a better idea??
The hotel is in a fab location, if it were upgraded im sure it would be used constantly!!
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Mr Lapidus cannot afford to redevelop the Normandie as a hotel but can afford to turn the site into 23 houses and 17 apartments!??? Does that make sense?
It makes sense only if you have known for some time that the tourism industry is dead and buried and not likely to return.
The Havres Des Pas was the first area in which I lived many many years ago. In the summer months it was full of live entertainment with a show AND a live guitarist in the Sunshine/Birdcage, a live guitarist in the Carribean Bar (who got told off every night by the management beecause the place was too full and noise was being made by people having fun.)All the other hotels had live entertainment on, Ommaroo, Mayfair, Carlton etc Guest Houses even had entertainment at least twice a week. Oh and yes I forgot the promenade was thriving with holiday makers !!!
Why didn’t Mr Lapidus just say the Tourism Industry is no more so it’s pointless re-developing the hotel so I’m going to develop houses and apartments because I can sell them at the end and make lots of money. For goodness sake be honest!
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
St. Clement is full and the coast road is sinking.
The houses won’t sell once they’re built because of the crunch but it’ll be too late by then.
Family hotels on the same budget are full to bursting at the moment – this is lazy, opportunist thinking and Planning ought to stop it.
But they won’t.
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Sorry, i must have been asleep, i thought that Tourism was thriving, according to Tourism!!!
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dear editor,reading about the normandie being made into houses and flats,where is it going to stop,as d g said havre de pas was a haven for tourists,i worked at the pool in the great summer of 1976,it was packed with visitors,when i was in jersey in august last year it was empty!! the beaches were empty,why? greed!!yours sincerely r jeffrey.
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To No 1, why dont you buy the hotel and do want you want to do with it and i’m sure you would quickly find yourself going into property why spend say a couple of million renovating an old shell when you could do the same with flats and make more with out the hassle of staff because if you dont you’ll soon have the bank at the door taking the hotel away from you !!!! and for J that’s No3 Hotels are not bursting at the moment and it will only get worse so feel free to make Mr Lapidus an offer then you can be the hero and give the locals a job so they can work for £6 an hr and live in poor staff accomodation working very unsociable hours for no more money
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Who in their right mind would commit themselves to living in a flat when they are going to be at the mercy of rip-off open ended service charges?
I am sure that this, and inadequate parking for residents and their guests, is why many of the flats in new developments are hard to shift.
However, if we must have flats it is surely better to redevelop sites like the Normandie than forever expanding the town into the harbour or spoilng marshes which are of ecological value.
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There’s a housing shortage and tourism is virtually dead – it’s a no brainer, develop the site.
What business it is of anyone other than Lapidus I don’t know, seems to me he’s hung on much longer than most and has finally decided on the only pragmatic course of action.
Yes it would be great to see Jersey thriving as it used to but since it’s not, why flog a dead horse?
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I agree that tourism is dead in Jersey and having just tried to book for a short break in July in order to visit a family member for a birthday I know why.However I have to ask is there really a housing shortage?There are numerous Dandara flats sitting unsold and empty (not surprising as I wouldn’t have one as a gift) but the type of homes being planned for this site seem to be much of the same.
RB Bougourd (no 7) Quite right-service charges in Jersey are astronomical and parking in such developments is lacking.
DG(no 2) I agree with every word!
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Housing shortage? The JEP has pages and pages of houses/flats for sale, some have been for sale for 6 months plus.
Not sure if this is the best time to build more flats/houses.
So much for out ‘thriving’ economy
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god forbid he builds affordable housing though! Because it will be million pound apartments built there that no one except the very rich can afford, same as always
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All I said was that Mr Lapidus be honest. I think you will find the affordable hotels ARE full and they are also full leading up to and throughout the Christmas and New Year period. They provide value for money, entertainment, and friendly experienced staff, of which most have been with these particular hotels since the good old days when tourism thrived.
Jersey lost the tourism industry through pure greed as we all know! As for flogging a dead horse, do a certain hotel company who want to build a surf school, chalets, tourism attractions etc etc think this is the case? No they dont but can they get permission to do so? NO!
I also ask the question when the Nomandie site is redeveloped where is everyone going to park!!!? Underground? A car park for of 23 houses and 17 flats, average 2 cars per property thats 80 cars, cant wait to see the car park!
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Put me down for a half price one.
I was actually that impressed with the last half price home sale so maybe 60% off this time.
It is no surprise it is not being turned into offices it would be really silly to build offices now.
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A* I was suggesting that instead of the states being so free and easy with their – sorry our money that they help someone who has obviously been in tourism for many years re-develop! Or why should they when they can make profit from the building of new hotel sites such as the radison!!
The suggestion was merely stating that there are plenty of flats standing empty and unsold that no one can afford to buy so why buid even more that will just be left like all the others!!
The Normandie has always been a busy hotel. Even out of season it would rent to workmen etc! I just think its a waste turning it into more flats and believe me if i had the money i would go in with Mr Lapidus to renovate coz i believe its worth it!!!
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The Normandie is past its sell by date, perhaps those of you against it being developed would like to see the states offer a loan to bring it up to standard but if tourism continues to die would also be prepared to write it off, tourism is changing, the Yacht, Hotel and Spa, Pomme d’or, they all cater for the higher end visitor the Normandie has had its day lets give its owners a break and let them do what they want with their building (Subject to planning of course)
And how could planning stop it, it is not for them to decide that we have enough flats/ houses etc, imagine being told no sorry you can’t have a conservatory or extension on your house as we think it is big enough! you would go mad and so the owners of the Normandie should be treated accordingly!
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Overpopulated No 10:
The reason they have been for sale for 6 months is that the sellers/estate agents are greedy and overprice everything and that the property for sale is a load of rubbish.(i.e should be knocked down but given a lick of paint by someone trying to make a quick buck)tough!
Have a look how many proeprties go through court everyweek!
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Gary (15)
Is the Yacht, Hotel and Spa, Pomme Do’r etc full of TOURISTS??? I think not. They aim for the corporate, short term business clients, clients they can charge what they please as their companies can afford it.
As for wanting a conservetory (actually it was french windows)added to my house, planning knocked me back not so long ago for their own reasons. There was also a time when planning would not allow you to have a Satellite Dish on the side of your house! Remember?
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Gary* I do agree with you that the owners should be able to do what they want with it but the article above says Mr Lapidus cannot afford to redevlop it! Its been his livelyhood for many years and im sure he would love to see it rise again to its former glory! With a little help it could be upgraded to a swankier smarter hotel and im sure it would make a killing!! Not everyone wants to be smack in the middle of town!!
I hope Mr Lapidus gets the help he needs/wants from the states!! GOOD LUCK!!!
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Having been a tourist to Jersey for many years, and now fortunate to live here I can quite honestly say that affordable family hotels are lacking. With the Highfield gone, the Beaufort (yes I know technically thats still there, but could anyone call the Club affordable) and many many more there are less and less places for families to have a getaway holiday every year. Why don’t they just convert it into self-catering apartments? Thats an area of tourism on the increase and they could do winter lets to non-quals locals out of season – much like St Peters Country apartments do.
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Do we want and need tourism or not? This is the question the States should be addressing.
If they are sincere in wanting tourism then redeveloping hotels to residental units should be avoided where ever possible.
Until the States get a grip with the costs of getting too and from Jersey then tourism is all but dead. This is the core issue and nothing else as far as I am concerned. Allied to this is the development of the island. Build too much, especially in the countryside and what is good about Jersey will be consigned to history.
When visiting another country I am not impressed by carbuncles on waterfronts, or boring monotonous sameness of builds in the good old Milton Keynes pseudo-futuristic style.
Jersey needs to maintain its special and unique flavour and not to allow itself to be modernised into a flatland where no one is happy to live. People need space to live in it is bad to pack them in like sardines because it maximises profits for the developers. Planning need to get a grip as well and tell the developers no more flats. They are not wanted and are no good for the social needs of young families.
It should be planning driving the development of Jersey and not the otherway around. They need more powers to fine those in breach of planning permits. At present there appears very little they can do except give retrospective planning permission for breaches of planning permits.
Flats are the equavilent of the 19th century slums, as far as I am concerned, and will only breed discontent and anarchy as people feel they are not valued. Detatchment from main stream society will led to an underclass of discontented, demorilised, depressed, desperate people who will fear for the future. Is this what we want? Crime will rise as this part of Jersey’s community becomes alienated from the rest.
Which ever way you look at it there is going to have to be a cap on the population as at the end of the day Jersey can only peacefully sustain so many people. For the sake of future generations this is an all important issue that stands like a giant monolith brooding in the background. Until the States implement proper immigration procedures we will carry on down the road to rampant expansion and over development at an ever increasing cost to those already here and the ecology and infrastructure of the island. At some stage the States is going to have to have a one out, one in policy to limit numbers to more acceptable levels as far as I am concerned.
Even bigger countries like the UK realise that there is a limit to population levels. This is why this capitalistic consumer driven society is doomed to failure, as it is dependent on ever growing numbers of people to fuel its growth. Stop the fuel of growth and it will implode.
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Most people would do the same. 40 units at say 600k = =24million. which will give him about 14 million profit. Wouldn’t fancy living there though. Road is very noisy near the mini roundabout and there are always q’s of cars.
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Yes the road is noisy and I also wouldn’t want to live across the road from the public toilets! or are they going to be removed? I think that was one of the reasons some time ago that permission wasn’t given for the Normandie to be redeveloped.
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DG, I think you are missing the point, if your french doors were refused because the area youlived in alreadu had enough you would no doubt be upset, planning cannot dictate the economy nor should they try, if a planning application is within the guidelines then it is up to the planning department to handle it accordingly.
As for the Yacht etc being for the business traveller i do not entirely disagree withyou but would say that Jersey is no longer a family of fours beach destination, it has become an expensive short break destination for the wealthier tourist, yes there are exceptions (Merton etc) but that is the reality!
If they have owned that hotel for a long time and now want to get out, if its not viable as a hotel why shouldn’t they develop it and make some money? Its not like they are a developer who have bought it for the sole reason of knocking it down is it?
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For thouse who would wish to see this hotel redeveloped as a hotel, rather than flats, one needs to consider why Jersey’s tourism business is in decline.
The visitors in the 50′s 60′s and 70′s such as my grandparnets did not have Passports and were more than happy to come to the island year after year. They did not have to ‘worry’ about a different language or changing their money. That generation has now died off, to be replaced by a category who are prepared to travel further, and to different places each year.
In addition, modern aircraft are incredibly cheap to operate on a per seat basis and longer distances can be covered for less cost.
I do agree with comments about flats – They will lead to social problems in the future, especially if and when the occupants have children.
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Gary
Once again all I said was for Mr Lapidus to be honest and not say he couldn’t afford to redevelop the building as a hotel. I just thought it was a silly thing to say when on the next breath he revealed he could afford to build 40 properties on the site. Also I didn’t say he was wrong to grab the money option by building property, it’s what most of the other hoteliers have done isn’t it?
My planning application for french doors were to be put in my house in the country where there was space in abundance. The planning person who came to view the area and myself had a debate over the size of a satellite dish i had put up previously on an outside wall, when the gentleman was proved wrong and shown the dish was a legal size and no permission had been required from his department he was totally embarresed and eventually then decided not to grant permission for the doors. Planning use the guidelines when it suits planning, how many so called guidelines are ignored when there’s money involved?
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#24 Warren J – you are spot on my friend. I recently visited my mum in the UK. When I was sat in the departure lounge at Southampton, I noticed adverts on the wall offering flights to Alicante – they were cheaper than my Jersey to Southampton ticket. It’s no wonder people don’t come here anymore
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Social problems from flats – only in tiny Jersey is this considered a problem. In larger countries like France, Italy, the UK etc plenty of people live in flats.
If the island was not so overpopulated property would be cheaper and more people could afford a house.
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Yet another hotel to bite the dust, more beds lost, less people able to holiday, less people requiring flights / boats, reduce the flights / sailings, less money spent, which bit makes sence?
Just a thought, with global warming and rising sea levels of an estimated 2 – 3 metres has anyone marked on a map which parts are likely to become flood plains?
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Of course it makes sense DG – the eventual sales proceeds should outweigh the cost of any loans for the development costs.
It’s so much easier to take that profit and run, rather than spend a fortune updating a tired hotel and desperately hope to recoup all that in the long run.
I don’t blame them.
Unless the states decide to zone specific parcels of land for specific purposes so that nothing but a hotel can exist in that hotel location, this isn’t likely to change.
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Bean 28. Good point I wouldn’t touch anything on the south or south-east coast of Jersey as it might be under water in 50 years. Sea views are great until you end up with high tide in your front room!
As per flats these are not required, very few want to live in them. So why build them? Answer it is more profitable in a given area of land. This is what it is all about, maximising profit, or as I call it greed.
It is pretty obvious that most hotels will end up as flats at some stage due to the easy option of making big bucks. Why bother working for a living when you can get someone else to do the work, by building you to loads of easy money, enough to retire on with no future financial worries?
Over population is the main issue as it leads to housing shortages and other social problems like we are getting now. Unfortunately this is the crux of the matter over here. The States have been blind to this looming problem for 30-40 years now, following the growth is good mantra. They will not be able to keep importing workers to get around the demographic time bomb as it is unsustainable.
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