‘Pack of animals’
Wednesday 27th May 2009, 3:00PM BST.
The attack happened at Snow Hill
THE violent actions of a gang of six teenage boys, who drunkenly attacked a man like a ‘pack of animals’, are scaring people from walking the streets of St Helier, according to a Royal Court judge.
As their 22-year-old victim lay curled in a ball, the boys kicked him nearly 50 times and one stamped on him twice. The incident began when they threw a bottle of urine at the man and his female friends last Christmas.
He was at Snow Hill and told the gang, aged between 14 and 15 at the time, that they ‘should be at home doing their homework’.
Their response, which was captured on CCTV and played to the court yesterday, was to punch him to the floor and launch a volley of kicks. Crown Advocate Conrad Yates said: ‘He curled up into a ball to protect his head. All he recalled was a flurry of legs and fists, and the girls screaming. Fortunately the injuries were not serious, but that must be more luck than judgment.’
Although Commissioner Julian Clyde-Smith agreed that the affray had been intimidating to the witnesses, he decided against youth detention for all but one of the defendants, who cannot be named because they are all under 18.
Five were sentenced to community service ranging from 95 to 170 hours, while one was sentenced to six months’ youth detention. Three of the boys were also put on probation.
‘It would appear there was no sufficient provocation for the attack which took place,’ said Commissioner Clyde-Smith. ‘It is not an exaggeration to say you acted as a pack of animals on this occasion.’
All six boys admitted affray on 19 December and yesterday their advocates told the court that they were remorseful.
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They have behaved with no morals and shown disrespect , a pack of animals as quoted, age is irrelevant. Name them and punish them accordingly. The nanny state is now protecting hooligans. Pathetic.
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I was dismayed to read Commisioner Julian Clyde Smith’s comments relating to the recent court case involving the 6 teenage thugs beating up an innocent man in town.
His comment that altough the case was intimidating to the witnesses he didn’t feel it warranted a custodial sentance.
Tell me, if the victim had been the bailiff of a commissioner of the court, who in the eyes of the law are not above the man in the street would he have given the same weak sentance
I’m afraid it’s people like him who are resposible for the lack of “fear of consequences” the youth of today have
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How have a group of youths who repeatedly kicked and stamped on an innocent mans had, who the courts themselves have labelled ‘animals’ avoided a custodial sentence?
The punishments handed to youths will do nothing to deter them committing similar offences in future.
It’s a disgrace!
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Bring back corporal punishment!!
The youth of today are practically getting away with murder – they know full-well that in real terms the law is useless and they are untouchable. I can guarantee that if the man had lashed out in self-defence, he’d be up in court for child abuse.
Let Commissioner Julian Clyde-Smith receive a kicking from some youths, then see if he’s quite so lenient.
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Don’t tell me the reason these “pack of animals” behaved the way they did is down to “bad parenting” and couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the “schooling” they might have recieved.
So let’s lock these wicked kids up, no tell you what why not zap them with 50,000 volts out of a stun gun first and then look to blame the parents.
The sooner a bright torch is shined into our Education Department, the sooner this sort of behaviour will stop…..All in my opinion naturally!!
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Can we get names please? It’s time we stopped protecting these wastes of space!
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Disgusting…what has Jersey come to.
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Bring back the birch. Let’s have public floggings of those under 18 in the Royal Square on Wednesday lunchtimes who have committed crimes that directly impact on someone else ie GBH, drug and/or alcohol related violence, robbery etc. These could be shown by live TV links to the schools and institutions where these little thugs are supposed to be learning and gaining an education. The threat of personal pain was suitably sufficient to halt a lot of possible bad behaviour years ago, so why should we have to tolerate thuggish behaviour from a minority. Or perhaps we should restart a form of Jersey national service whereby the former Pontins site is a high security-closed Army barracks for brats that break the law or leave school without securing some form of employment.
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Say’s it all realy,
Does’nt it….
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Once again violent and unruly youths are protected by the law. I agree that young people need protection when they are the VICTIM of crime, but as the perpetrators they should lose that privilige.
I am also astounded by the lack of courage on the part of the Commisioner, their sentences were insulting. The act of throwing urine at someone is enough to warrant those sentences.
Furthermore, I’d wager a fair amount that they are repeat offenders anyway. Another resounding failure from the cotton-wool state we live in. It is precisely because of pathetic judgements like this that people take the law into their own hands. Can you blame them? These youths have joke sentences that the state will wipe when they hit a certain age anyway. Some deterrant.
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No doubt a stiff sentencing such as this will send out the right message to our minority feral youth population !
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When are we going to stop this stupidity about NOT naming them as they are all under 18, at 16 they can vote,enter a homosexual relationship,but we cannot name them for beating the c##p out of someone, what a misguided society we live in, oh and by the way remorseful, yes, because they got caught!!!!!
By the way when will we stop referring to this sort of incident, as “like a pack of animals” please don’t insult the animals, call them what they are MORONS!!!!
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Is this all they receive?
What sort of deterrent message does this send out, kick the hell out of someone and get a slap on the wrist!!!!
Wow, justice has really gone wrong.
No wonder the youth of today behave the way they do, they do not fear the consequences of their actions.
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What a disgrace. Violent often unprovoked assaults in St. Helier are commonplace by adults let alone teenagers precisely because the Islands judiciary seem unwilling to hand down custodial sentences to anyone other than drug smugglers and foreigners.
I recall a year or two ago the police being quoted in the JEP saying they could not control violence on the streets at weekends and the then Magistrate piping up to say he would not allow that situation. Well excuse me for pointing out that it is the knowledge that a custodial sentence is rarely handed down even for grave and criminal assaults that has been a large factor contributing to the situation !
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What an absolute waste of time. Even laughable if it wasn’t true. Why oh why reward viscious yobs with ‘community service’.
These kind of so called punishments should be for such misdemeanors as spitting or urinating in the street etc.
These yobs need real discipline.
Next time they decide to attack, as they most surely will, their victim will probably not be as ‘lucky’ as this poor chap was.
I really do despair at the total lack of punishment given for horrible crimes such as this one.
Come to think of it – what on earth are we tax payers paying the wages of these judges for. Does anyone else actually believe this is good or sound judgement?
God help us! (The authorities won’t).
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Well lets just hope that the Commisionair or one of his family arent the next ones to be “in the wrong place” then. Because I suspect the sentence might be less leniant. Come on – lets show some backbone in this Island.
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I think the boys should all be locked up, but lock up the parents also, for letting 14 year olds be out gettting drunk.
Don’t they bear any responsibility?
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How many of you people that are calling for corporal punishment and the removal of all leniancy towards youths are the same people who were screaming blue murder about HDLG?
So here we have 14 (when I write this) comments and every one is asking for stiffer punishments, birching, live video feeds for others to watch it happening, and so, and so.
My comment is not in defense of the story above and the leniant punishment that these youths have received, but it most certainly is in disgust of the speed in which people will jump from one bandwagon to the next. The protection of children in the 60′s and 70′s was nowhere near the standard that is expected today and here we are wanting to convict people for the abuse that they commited to the children in tehier care. In the same breath we are asking to punish these minors with physical and psychological results.
Pick a side people and stick by it. You can’t have it all every way you want it.
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Community service – that’ll teach them – NOT.
These kids will continue to behave in this manner until an effective deterrant is in place.
Anyone remember the English yob who misbehaved in Singapore? 100 lashes with a whip, 20 a month he was whimpering for his mummy.
I can’t imagine a more clear cut case to make an example of, caught on cctv, why have cctv if it is not used to punish the guilty.
If a gang of grown men went around town dispensing punishment to these yobs they would face a jail term, once again the judicial system is weak and innefective – unless you are innocently defending your home or loved ones then it will punish you to the full extent of the law!
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There should always be a balance taken when reaching a guilty verdict and making the consequent sentence. In short, the punishment should reflect the crime committed.
It is clear that in the sentence handed down that this has been disregarded, and that there should be a review of both this sentence and sentencing policy in general.
It is also the case that if 16 is the age that a person can participate by voting in public elections, then they should also be regarded as being old enough to have their names declared publicly in Court.
My sympathies go to the victim of this terrible assault.
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A proper bootcamp is needed here,people who were themselves not well equiped to raise kids or had alcohol or drug issues have lost influence over these types,it should be paid for but not run by the Govt, Youv’e seen it on T.V. it works and the poor parents are actually relieved when they go, and once a young person is “turned round” they are no longer a nuisance having regained some self respect and responsibility.
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It’s disgusting. If it was an adult doing these things they would not only be named and shamed but locked up. Why should teenagers get away with this? If they’re old enough to be out on their own then they should be able to accept the consequences of their behaviour.
Where were the parents when all of this was going on? maybe they should be punished for neglect?
If under 18s can’t be punished for such disgraceful behaviour then perhaps they shouldn’t be allowed out after dark without a responsible adult.
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Is this what coming down HARD means in JERSEY then we all should be very very worred may be time to take the law into our own hands
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This is why more serious assaults occur such as manslaughter and murder.It needs to be stopped at this level. Instead anyone of these perverts can go on to kill believing they just got a slapped wrist.
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“Jersey” its safe for kids??? Life enriching???
Anything seems acceptable these days.
Having travelled most of the globe without seeing anything to disturbing you realise your in the “safe haven” when you witness a group of scumbags with a can of lager remonstrating with a person of authority as seen by myself just the other week.
Just passing through the european countries you notice the youth walk around minding there own business not staring,not intimidating not threatining, however come back to Jersey & all the morons are there to damage cars shout abuse or threaten you once more.
Welcome to the Jersey culture experience!
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Community Service!!! Is this a joke??
I received 40 hours community service many years ago and I can tell you from personal experience that it’s just a laugh. Amongst other things, we spent a few Sunday mornings painting the green bikes, and this was no punishment at all. We all had a chat and a laugh whilst we were painting, it was team bonding and gave everyone the chance to meet up with other like-minded individuals (ie criminals). Very little discipline or punishment at all really. In fact, I will go on record as saying that I ENJOYED my community service.
So, these little swine kicked a guy so much that he was lucky not to have been killed, will have this to look forward to. Hardly teach them the error of their ways. Even if they were inprisoned they’d still have Playstations and colour tv’s in their heated cosy ‘cells’ anyway – I thoroughly agree we should bring back corporal punishment for crimes such as this.
The irony of it all is that, if a member of the public had intervened and punched one of the perpetrators, he would be the one in court with his name in the JEP.
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The judge should have banged them up with some real criminals to see how intimidation feel, and then they may not re-offend
yours jay.
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i think its the “good doers” fault !!!!!all these people who say u cant smack kids, or name them ,human rights and all that rubbish ,what if the man had punched them all back and hurt them badly then its his fault and he gets punished huh ??????
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They have committed a very nasty crime, the only correct place for them to be is in a prison cell,nothing less is acceptable in this society
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So if I get attacked by kids (totally outnumbered of course) and I lash out and they are injured I hope I can quote the Commissionier’s lack of punishment in my defence.
After all, if while being attacked I know that the perpetrators won’t receive any real punishment I’m going to want to go as far as I can to inflict some pain on them myself.
Or would that be child abuse also?
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Cool, next time angry I’ll go to snow hill and beat someone up. Seems like the place to be if you want to commit crimes and not be punished accordingly.
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Of course, I agree with all of the comments above this post. I also agree very much with James Knight’s response about the children’s parents. I’d like to see a hefty fine (and I mean hundreds of pounds)imposed on all parents whose children prove to be out of parental control as do these. There are notices around town saying “Do you know where your child is tonight”?
The answer is a resounding “No!” and the parents don’t care either.
I wouldn’t particularly relish the idea of a teenager going to prison so, we must ask ourselves what the option is. Blame the parents – and name and shame the perpetrators of the crime.
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where were the police when this was happening?
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Michael 18
What on earth has this incident and the feral youth of today got to do with HDLG??
Most of the unfortunate victims are in their adult years not in their teens!
This is a modern problem caused by pathetic do gooders who have not got a grasp of reality……
Vigilante justice may not be too unrealistic if nothing is done to protect the law abiding and tax paying public from these anti-social idiots!!!
If a teen attacked me or my fiancee for no reason then I can assure you I wouldn’t care about the consequences and they will certainly end up worse off than me!
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some one will be killed soon …takes that final kick to end it.curfews needed. police need to be doing their jobs to protect the streets instead of looking for minor,minor motoring offences..god it makes me vomit!!!!!!endless youths and adults by the way with anti social behaviour littering the streets…what do the tourists think???makes me cringe when i think of these tourists walking the town looking at scum!!!
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33 Bruce
or the honoraries who apparently do so much for helping to keep law & order!
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guess its not entirely police fault but courts etc..these people should be named and shamed by the means of having to stand chained together in orange suits,paraded in the royal square with their crimes written on them.
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I started reading through the comments and gave up. Tommy (7) is right, it’s ‘Disgusting…what has Jersey come to.’
But more because of the extreme views on this roll of comments than what has sadly taken place in St Halier. Corporal punishment, the birch, etc, etc, are not an answer, real change that is not based on fear or control takes place very differently.
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Just read the rest of the comments… hope this doesn’t reflect the majority in Jersey.
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Correct me if I’m wrong JEP but surely it’s the Jurats who decide the sentence, not the Commissioner.
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(Voiceforchildren no.5) You can’t blame the schools. Parents are supposed to teach about values, respect, behaviour etc etc, schools are there to teach academically. Round up all the little hooligans & thugs, put them in a very public place on a Saturday afternoon with a placard saying why thay are there, & they might think twice before they decide on a repeat performance.
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Unfortunately we have the Howard League and others telling these kids that such actions are Ok and that any punishment will be challenged as a breach of their human rights.
To quote a blog of a current Senator “You just can’t make it up”.
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I guess the Police were too busy on street corners, making criminals out of law abiding motorists with their speed guns. Anyway, that’s another story for another time.
OK, so its happened again, but has anything changed or lessons been learn’t from the previous incidents of this kind? In a word…..No!
Therefore, although I do agree to some extent with these message boards as a platform for sounding off our frustrations etc…..do they actually work when it comes to getting things done practically on matters such as these? In a word…..No!
I guess the only way to make people sit up and listen is to take our/your point across is to take it to the States. OK, so the GST thing in the Royal Sq never had the desired effect, but it made a point, and it became a topic within the manifestos of our dear politicians from the elections a while back.
Maybe, just maybe, it might make change happen for the better in this case? They owe us that at least….dont they?
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or the honoraries who apparently do so much for helping to keep law & order!
The Honoray’s help to uphold the law,
not hand-out the sentance
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Real View – sorry to say but you are wrong. The Court summed up how they behaved and it was only by luck that the Victim did not receive a blow which could have done more harm or even have been fatal. The Law is there to be used, it is to protect the innocent public and as a deterant to stop others from committing such violent acts.
They admitted affray – pure and simple. This is far more serious than dropping litter, speeding, or some minor criminal offences. They should have been jailed. What message does this send to guilty, their friends and the public, that in Jersey, as long as you are sorry and young you can get away with this!
Perhaps the victim should take out a civil action against the children and/or their parents.
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I’m sure I don’t need to say it but please remember it is the minority of “kids” who behave like these idiots in this particular incident.I fully agree that they should be named and punished in a way that may prevent them from behaving in such a way in the future.I should think they are all having a great laugh at the moment having been let off so lightly.
I recently visited Jersey to see family and was appalled at some of the behaviour I saw from school children and youths.How has Jersey allowed this to happen?While stuck in traffic on Queens Road a number of children strutted by in school uniform (sort of) Every one of them was smoking,the language was appalling and one girl spat with great enthusiasm in front of our car.I find it very sad.
The victim of this crime and his friends must have been very traumatised and I hope they have managed to put this dreadful incident behind them.
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Bruce 33, BS Deluxe 36.
They can not have a police officer shadowing every 13 to 17 year old, even if they had the man power, the human rights brigade would be up in arms. Although Michael 18 speaks a lot of sense, the punishment has to fit the crime. The commissioner has his hands tied as to what punishment he can hand out, again by the brigade.
This type of incident is not committed by the majority of our youth, those we can be proud of, its this minority who grab the headlines with their outrageous behaviour. Again listening to what Michael 18 says, perhaps a 3 strikes and you lose your human rights and become eligible for corporal punishment ? Not to be administered by a pervert in a cellar but openly and controlled by our justice system.
Oh, and BS Deluxe the St Helier honories are operating at half strength at the moment, why don’t you join them and do your bit instead of making snide remarks, Remember if your not part of the solution your part of the problem !
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Well, well Commissioner Clyde-Smith you hand out maximum fines to two Deputies who broke and admitted to breaking a ridiculous law for helping infirm, elderly and housebound people apply for postal votes then go on to let off lightly a gang of teenage thugs who violently attack a man in the streets of St Helier!!
This has only confirmed my belief that the law is certainly an ass.
Furthermore, in Tuesday’s paper we have a report of not one, but two teacher’s investigated for assault and other charges. Voice for Children has a point – if children learn by example it is not only the parents they learn from but those charged with their Education, a Department which seems to need an in depth ‘looking at’ to allay parent’s concerns about this type of behaviour.
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This is what you get when you reward people producing children with council houses. Perhaps if the parents of the children lost their tax-payer subsidized housing we might see some parental control. Councils do this in the UK I believe.
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Voiceforchildren: please tell us what the education department can do – they have their hands tied too – the parents have their hands tied too – we can’t punish – we can’t ground them – we are hitting our heads against a brick wall – we can’t discipline any further than ‘reasoning’ with them. That is what we are told. If we smack them we are frowned upon or we are subjected to disciplinary procedures – wake up please we really need to do something with these little ‘anarchists’
(on a lighter note can the fashion please change and get rid of hoodies!!! its like a uniform which some of the schools appear not to be able to order them to wear.
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#5 Voiceforchildren
Incredible! You are the embodiment of exactly what is wrong with society and what has caused us to be where we are.
Your frankly insulting decsion to blame schools is nothing more than a blame attitude that allows those with no interest in taking responsibility to pass it on to others. I have first hand experience of working in Jersey’s education systme, and it isn’t perfect.
However, quite how schools are to blame for the behaviour of children at night and on weekends I can’t see. Do you seriously think that teachers give lessons on group maulings? It is little more than the easy option to blame schools, parents’ role is to bring up their children responsibly, not mess it up and then look for someone to blame for it.
The majority of children need a voice but it is hard to defend the indefensible!
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Comparative sociological studies of social disorder in urban areas highlight neighbourhood characteristics such as population density, poverty, mixed-land use and residential stability as factors which can explain the varying levels of social disorder between neighbourhoods.
Any long term solution must address these issues.
Measures that focus solely on harsher punishment regimes will not be sufficient to bring about long term change.
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BS Deluxe (34)
I agree with you totally, If a teen attacked me on the street I’d fight back and take the consequences, problem is, most of them are cowards and hunt in packs.
Do-gooders are the problem here, everybody is afraid of saying and doing the wrong thing this day and age in all aspects of life. Go back to the old days of punishment to fit the crime maybe we’ll get a little more peace on the streets at nights.
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Name them all. Fine the parents.
Re-instate corporal punishment.
To those criticising the Honorary Police …….why aren’t you applying to join up and make a difference, instead of obviously carrying an enormous great chip about?
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33 & 36, the question about the honoraries and the police is how long did it take for them to get there when they found out about it? Sadly on a Friday night the St Helier honoraries and the police have their hands full dealing with fights at pubs and nightclubs, and arranging for adults and children to get home that are over the limit.
An attack like the above would be over in about 1 minute. So how can you expect them to get there so fast? I believe that the honoraries and the police do an okay job, all we need now is the courts to do their job.
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so ‘voiceforchildren’ thinks teachers are responsible for parenting his children.
It’s attitudes like this which is the reason some kids have no morals and behave this way.
To counter VFC arguement, if it was the education departments fault, then surely there would be thousands of kids roaming the streets beating people up.
Thankfully the majority of parents take their roles seriously, and the antisocial behavior we witness by a very small minority is a result of poor parenting and parents who believe it is everyones elses job to bring up their children.
These parents need to be held accountable for their childrens actions.
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Was it Gilbert & Sullivan who said, “Let the punishment fit the crime.” ? I don’t feel community service was at all appropriate. The people who supervise community service are generally of the ‘Do gooders brigade’ or are too weak to assert any real authority. A stint at H.M.P. would have taught them a better lesson.
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What on earth was going through the judges head at the time he decided against youth detention?? It’s bizarre and makes no sense. These ‘youths’ should be named and shamed in public then sent to prison. How on earth can the judge think community service is going to teach them a lesson.
Just think how the victim feels knowing these scumbags got community service.
Pathetic justice system which makes me sick.
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doli incapax
If you want to get rid of hoodies make them school uniform! Kids won’t be seen dead in that after school!
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Phil #52, you are totally right to highlight the long-term needs, but in the meantime we are stuck in a situation where children reading this story will be encouraged to go and beat someone up because they now know they can get away with it!
I want to know who these boys were, names and photos. Not to do them harm might I add, I simply want to know who to stay away from. I do not wish to feel the need to stay away from ALL teenage boys and assume all of them are a threat, that is unfair, so I want to know which ones I do need to avoid.
Punishment must fit the crime, anything else is sending out the message that you can have a field day doing whatever you want (as long as you’re under 18).
#56 Big Bean, couldn’t agree more. Schools are for academic education, what is asked of them as regards personal responsibility for children is already too much. Parents must be made to take proper care of their children.
Alternatively, we could start neutering these young criminals to prevent them raising likeminded children but I doubt that would get past any human rights courts!
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This is a small island and the victim is likely to cross paths with his attackers again.
So the Commissioner should be obliged to answer the following questions:
How can he ensure that the victim never has to see his attackers again? What would the punishment have been if it had been his child that had been attacked? Would the sentence have been different if it had been a woman that had been attacked? If the victim finds one of these boys on their own and attacks him in the same fashion, what will the punishment be?
Maybe the answer is a restraining order banning the attackers from coming within 12 miles of their vicim. That seems fair to me.
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When the law was created to treat children differently from adults I don’t beleive these sort of crimes were being committed by children.
Is it not time to review this and treat them the same as adults?? Times have changed, maybe some of the laws should as well.
What would have happened if this poor man had defended himself and thought back?? I bet he would be the one up in court!
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ZBD Was it Gilbert & Sullivan who said, “Let the punishment fit the crime.”
No what he said was ” Claire, the moment I met you I swear”…….
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If “animals” had behaved in this manner they would have probably been shot at the seen!
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Oh dear me BS deluxe on an anti Honorary moan again!
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Leah, that’s an excellent point – if the victim were to see one of they boys on his own and slap him around a bit, what would then happen? In my humble opinion this would be well justified considering that the assailants have virtually got away with their crime.
I think the courts would be pretty much obliged to hand out a similar punishment ie give up a few Sundays to paint the Centeniers boat etc.
As the victim has been so badly let down by the legal system I would not be at all surprised if he decided to take the law into his own hands.
If I had been the one assaulted and kicked 50 times by these cowards, I would now be purchasing a large baseball bat with which to show them some real justice.
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The kids will never learn when a grown man can head butt someone completly unprovoked at the weighbridge and get community service and a £250 fine. Then he gets a slap on the wrist from his employer and told ‘not to do it again’!
Someone needs to get tough with these kids!
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Tobias#66…..or should that be 666?!
Of course that would… be whilst the said Centenier was foregoing his boat trip… by giving HIS time helping with the cycle race?.. having earlier dealt with an RTC and BEFORE being called out because someone has died…..Never mind the call in the middle of the night because someone’s
found a dog!!
And all done willingly and without complaint!
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Lets lower the school leaving age to 15, as it was in the 60s.Then we would only have to pay for the youngsters that want to learn.
Those that no longer wish to carry on disrupting classes could get a job and start learning what life is all about.
An apprenticeship learned on the job would be a much better grounding than enforced going to school by someone who hates every minute of it. It would help with our lack of available manual skills available in the island. They would also be earning wages and maybe then would not want to hang out and have to look big in front of schoolchildren.
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Mr. Kipling (63) you should stick to making exceedingly good cakes. Court Commissioner Julian Clyde-Smith should give us an idea as to his reasoning……was this decision made in consultation with Jurats after a Probation Report, or did he make the decision by himself.
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In view of the almost universal condemnation in these comments, shouldn’t the prosecution appeal the sentencing, similar to the UK attorney general appealing the Baby P sentences?
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PJG – unfortunately there arent’ any jobs for school leavers, hell there aren’t any jobs for qualified people who have been let go.. I think the only way to get people to learn is public humiliation – maybe put them in the stocks and throw rubbish at them in the royal square with the victim being allowed to throw stuff at point blank range?
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I would withhold judgement on the Commissioner, until his judgement is released into the public domain. Only then we will understand the reasoning for the sentencing. I agree on face value that it does seem too lenient but you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
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If you can’t name the kids, then name the parents. This will hopefully shame them into becoming better parents. This is a smallish island, somebody must know who the families are – do us all a favour and reveal names please
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Actually Tricky, believe it or not I am beginning to appreciate (some) of the work they do. I fully appreciate that we should be thankful for the honoraries and the work they do to help free up the police officers and I certainly feel they should not be put in any danger during the course of their duties.
But police officers have signed up knowing the risks involved and get paid handsomely for it so what exactly are they doing instead?
I am struggling to remember when i last saw a “bobby” patrolling the streets, however, I do recall seeing a squad car and several officers with a speed gun on Queens Road recently trying to catch out the odd taxpayer travelling to work who may have been going just that little too fast. Perhaps speed cameras could do this trick and free up the officers to deal with real crime….just a thought! And how many officers were used in the HDLG and Stuart Syvret debacles!!
When the police/honoraries do a good job the judicial system lets us all down by not passing suitable punishments.
Judges and law makers are not above the law so either the law needs to be changed or they need to be held accountable and explain their poor and often inconsistent decisions….only my opinion. For example, why is possessing a class B drug more punishable than assault?
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As our honourable politicians have allowed 16 year olds to vote then they should adjust the legal age for adulthood to 16 so they can be punished as adults and named in the local paper
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Send them to middle of africa…see how tough they actually are!
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Lucy 72
I beg to differ.
If we did not have an over educated under experienced potential young workforce. If they left school at 15 and learned a trade instead of studying sports and other non subjects for 3 years, they would not be whinging about how they cant get the job of their choice ( most appear to want to be celebs ) they would be eligible for the jobs that are available , Plumbers, mechanics, welders, carpenters etc, those jobs that we are importing labour to fill.
If we keep treating them as children then they will behave so.
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While I too would like to see a return to the stocks in response to crimes like this, I don’t believe that it would be effective.
What I do believe is effective is instilling proper morals in children; including respect for others, society, and themselves. In order to ensure that they receive a proper upbringing, we need to return to parents the absolute right of discretion in how they bring up their children – and make them bear responsibility for the outcome. Up to the age of reason (12 or so) the parent bears the ultimate responsibility for the actions of their child. I can see no reason why a parent, freed from politically correct constraints, cannot control a 12 year old.
From the age of 12 to (say) 18, there is a joint responsibility between parent and child – as this is the age where we can expect the child to begin to develop their ‘own’ system of values which may involve testing the limits and strictures of both their parents’ and society’s value structures. Commonly, where the frequency and nature of offences would be characterised as ‘normal’ adolescent malfeasance, offences during this period would be ‘pardoned’ at 18 so as not to form a barrier to a smooth transition into adulthood as a contributing and responsible member of society.
The purpose of the criminal justice system is to ensure that offenders are punished for their crimes, and rehabilitated so that they can become responsible members of society. The punishment aspect is simple enough; stocks, flogging, custodial sentences, etc. Unfortunately, regardless of how severe the punishment, without addressing the underlying causes of criminal behaviour a positive change cannot be affected.
Nearly 20 years ago a Risk-Need-Responsivity model for offender assessment and rehabilitation was developed. This model is based on three principals:
- Risk principle: Match the level of service to the offender’s risk to re-offend.
- Need principle: Assess criminogenic needs and target them in treatment.
- Responsivity principle: Maximize the offender’s ability to learn from a rehabilitative intervention by providing cognitive behavioural treatment and tailoring the intervention to the learning style, motivation, abilities and strengths of the offender.
For example:
1 – Antisocial personality indicated by impulsive, adventurous pleasure seeking, restlessly aggressive and irritable actions should be addressed by building self-management skills, teach anger management
2 – Procriminal attitudes indicated by rationalizations for crime, negative attitudes towards the law should be addressed by countering rationalizations with prosocial attitudes; build up a prosocial identity
3- Social supports for crime indicated by Criminal friends, isolation from prosocial others should be addressed by replacing procriminal friends and associates with prosocial friends and associates
4 – Substance abuse indicated by abuse of alcohol and/or drugs should be addressed by Reducing substance abuse, enhance alternatives to substance use
5 – Family/marital relationship indicated by inappropriate parental monitoring and disciplining, poor family relationships should be addressed by teaching parenting skills, enhance warmth and caring
6 – School/work Poor performance indicated by low levels of satisfactions Enhance work/study skills, should be addressed by nurturing interpersonal relationships within the context of work and school
7 – Prosocial recreational activities indicated by lack of involvement in prosocial recreational/leisure activities should be addressed by encouraging participation in prosocial recreational activities, teach prosocial hobbies and sports
As each offender, and offence, is unique a balance needs to be struck and care needs to be taken in laying down a sentence. A first time anti-social offender, from a well structured, caring home environment may have committed the offence while under the influence of drugs and alcohol – therefore a community service order which is aimed at reducing their likelihood to abuse drugs or alcohol in the future may be effective. For a repeat offender, a custodial sentence which imposes substance abuse therapy would seem more appropriate.
Until such time as our current government and judiciary are prepared to give substantial thought, and honest effort, to resolving the challenges facing our island we have no hope of meeting them. The current fashion of platitudes, pleasantries, sound-bites, and political manoeuvring will never suffice.
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PJG I left school at 15 (admitidly because I did my A levels early) and I was out looking for work for 2 years before someone took me on. Nobody wants to employ young people without experience and they cant get experience becuase nobody will employ them. Bear in mind i’m on 23 now..
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I am utterly disgusted with the behaviour of these thoroughly obnoxious teenagers! More so with our judicial system that keeps benefiting the offenders of all disposition with no evidence of support for the victims or ‘decent’ members of society. If these ‘children’ expect the same rights as adults, then they should carry the same burden of responsibility and the same consequences for assault and GBH. I have worked with ‘children’ from age 6-18 and have seen increasing aggressiveness over the years. I dont believe this can be down to Just ‘broken family’…I and many of my adult friends come from such, and have never become as many teens are today. But there WAS some discipline and respect in evidence then.Nor can it be down to lack of activities…this Island is surrounded by beautiful beaches isnt it? Many children do not have that luxury !! It is just an excuse for apalling behaviour and for not dealing with troublesome/ violent teenagers.
When are the local people of this island going to stand up for themselves in may regards and say this is NOT good enough? We need change.It is more than time that the political elite wake-up to reality..but then I guess many of them are protected from this in their lovely homes in the countryside?
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….and with fines of £10,000 and £2,000 for helping a pensioner fill out a ballot request, you wonder what the judges brains are filled with.
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Steve C (79) Please use the K.I.S. principal -keep it simple. We have the mad, the bad and the sad. Many young males commit offences of the sort in highlighted in this case, do so between the ages of 15 yrs to 30 yrs and there are a few recidivists, where rehabilitiation is often impossible. We know every case should be judged on it’s own merits, but sometimes an example should be set, so that a few suffer for the benefit of the majority. This is surely such a case.
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