Population (91,800) ‘will be allowed to rise’
Friday 29th May 2009, 2:59PM BST.
Duncan Gibaut at today’s population press conference. Picture by Matthew Hotton (00703081)
MINISTERS have rejected calls to halt Jersey’s booming population – it now stands at 91,800 – and have vowed to plough on with plans to increase the number of people living in the Island.
Speaking at a press conference this morning, Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur said that plans submitted by Deputy Daniel Wimberley to maintain the current population level were unrealistic and lacked substance.
The plans formed part of 11 amendments to the Strategic Plan – a three-year to-do list for ministers – submitted by ten States Members.
Senator Le Sueur today revealed that ministers had accepted nine of the amendments, but had rejected Deputy Wimberley’s population proposals and Deputy Geoff Southern’s calls for ‘an alternative political philosophy’.
It came just minutes before a separate press briefing in which the States Statistics Unit revealed that Jersey’s population now stands at 91,800 – an increase of 900 on the previous year.
Duncan Gibaut at today’s population press conference Picture by Matthew Hotton (00703081)
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I know that many people will dissagree with this however the fact is we have a major ageing population issue, in fact even moreso than elsewhere in Europe so the economy needs to maintain an influx of populus or else face large increases in taxation to pay for this problem which will equally be complained about. So the choice is simple increase the number of working taxable people or be prepared to pay more towards the right to continue living in the island. It is the right decision even though I am sure there will be many people who dissagree with me.
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What a great idea! I didn’t think it possible to cram any more people in to Jersey’s small roads and small high street. We’ll need pedestrian traffic lights in King Street, especially at lunch time! There’ll probably need to be a limit imposed on households for the number of vehicles they have too!
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Even if we do have an ageing population issue we still need to reduce our population. Food security is a much more serious problem than ageing population and Jersey cannot provide enough food for all it inhabitants.
My Parents live with me now and I give them a helping hand. Familys should work together like in the old days and people accept that like once their parents looked after them, one day they may have to look after there parents in return.
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I agree that something needs to be done about the ageing population, but rather than trying to maintain an influx of populus would it not be better to try and encourage the young people to stay or to come back after they have finished university?!
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I agree with GMR. We moan about things like this, such as the incinerator, etc., but generally an alternative suggestion isn’t offered so what’s supposed to be done! The States will never be able to please everyone. There’ll always be a group of people that are against it, some just because it’s the States.
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If it gets any more overcrowded it won’t be worth living here anyway!
More people = more costs to run the island, so there’s no net benefit is there? It’s madness!!
So what if we have to retire later? Seeing as we’re mostly living longer now it seems like a reasonable trade off.
If, ON AVERAGE, people used to live until 70 and retired at 65, does it matter if we work until 72 if we’re making it to 80?
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annie de feu (3)
i see it this way also,
gmr. where are the new well paid sustainable jobs?
jobs that will buy you a home and bring your children up?
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GHR (1) is current and the policy of population grow is well argued. But the policy is unbalanced.
Kate (2) puts forward the knee jerk response of the lady, or man, in the street. Her objectors, be they well argued, or not, reflect the will of the voter.
In my opinion the policy of population growth is flawed, and will remain flawed, until such time as fundamental question of infrastructure are answered.
1) Where is this expanding population going to live?
2) How much green field development will have to be allowed?
3) Sewage? Where will it go?
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Comment 1 GMR is right we do need the tax income to pay pensions and healthcare – but this cannot continue indefinitely. We really do need to cherry pick those who we allow into the island rather than continue with the quals policy which doesn’t work. We don’t even prevent people with a criminal record entering the island, something Guernsey & Alderney have been doing for over 20 years.
Jersey is changing and not for the better, we need to adopt a long term sustainable approach before it’s too late – if that point has not already passed!
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Let’s see if I understand this, Let in more people so we can tax them Ya..?the fact that the pressure on infrastructure,traffic,health,and yes lot’s and lot’s more of that sewage stuff is already busting at the seams,seems to be being ignored. more people = more tax revenue..Why..? COM need more money to blow on ridiculous and grandiose nonsense, because thay can’t keep spending in check,..could it simply be very bad housekeeping and an admission that in order to keep paying out huge compensations for incompetence, lawyers,experts,reports,and other stuff that makes Joe public whince… it is just easier to keep asking the public for more money, how many extra wage earners to pay for £6ook insurance gamble,which is still beyond me why we picked up the tab for that one,£800K for the John Day fiasco, who really knows how many millions..yes millions for the treasury Euro debacle, endless millions on the cavern and unused tunnels,the specialist boreing machine,still in there,buried, millions of our hard earned quids…and NO one sacked yes reader you and I pay for all these things and I am barely scratching the surface here of the endless spends that are squandered,there is NO apparent accountability,it’s not the “spenders” money, and so they don’t care, and it is the system that allows them not to care,Jersey is in desperate need of a complete management overhaul based on responsible and accountable principles,this job for life regardless of performance culture has got to go, we are heading for serious unrest at this rate and those whose lives move around on gilded castors need to wake up before it’s too late, people with nothing more to lose are very dangerous socially, when the desperate take over the streets,the game of civilization is lost.
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So the problem to an aging population is to import more people? What happens when these new imports get old, do we import more to cover for them? A great scheme this is isn’t it? What happens when there are fewer young people globally? Where do the workers come from then?
By then we might have 200,000 over here, who will be paying for these 200,000 to enjoy themselves in retirement? This whole thing is unsustainable, the States should be looking to reduce the population to more sustainable levels before push comes to shove. See what happens when there are global food shortages and we have very little green land left to grow anything on. We will then be even more captive to outside forces.
As far as I am concerned this is going to cause major problems long term.
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If the population is uder 92000, perhaps someone can explain why the hospital has recorde for 100000+.
I think the States are the only people that honestly believe their figures are right!!!!!
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Live and Let live and stop moaning, people will always move in and move out.. its not just in Jersey it happens everywhere.
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the COM convintly decided that unlike any other civilised country they did not require a census every five years and therefore dispensed with the last one as it obviously didn’t suit their purposes. So to quote the states of Jersey web site
“The Jersey Census provides a measure of the Island’s total resident population; the
most recent Census, conducted in March 2001, recorded 87,186 residents.”
Therefore all other figures are pure estimates. Over a five year period they probably could be reliable but over 10 – doubtful when during that time we have seen economic growth, a property boom (or bubble?) and pressure on public services.
Also the estimate is derived from migration and immigration figs. how does that work when our SS and Tax systems are inefficient at capturing people unless they are on a company payroll. I think there are far more people imigrating that are on no list or goverment radar.
the 2011 cenus will be very interesting but we wont find out until 2012 but by then it will be too late.
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You lot are so deluded. The global human population is set to rise exponetially this century. Everywhere in Northern Europe (geographically not constitutionally) will suffer population rises through immigration, expecially as parts of north Africa and southern Europe may no longer be able to support crop growth and decent water supplies as the climate continues to warm.
A small population increase now is the least of your worries and to be frank, if tiny islands like Hong Kong island and Singapore can support millions of people while still maintaining large amounts of open green space, then Jersey can adapt as well. Stop whingeing and let the States get on with planning properly for an inevitable increased population.
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It is so utterly absurd to propose increasing the population in order to mitigate the effects of an ageing population. Such measures are purely palliative.
The correct remedies are obvious and well documented.
I just wish the COM were honest about their reasons for proposing a population growth policy.
I can’t believe that they have done so on the basis of confidence in the population forecasts as outlined in their white paper.
This reasoning just does not stack up.
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If we had work permits years ago – as the voters wanted, we would have been able to limit the immigrants to those who would pay reasonable amounts of tax. Instead we let anyone in – and then provide them with a lifetime of social housing for the rest of their life – not to mention all the imported relations – insanity!
No wonder we have a ‘problem’ with the ageing population – our government has created this by allowing people in who are unable to pay for themselves.
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And where are these 8000 jobs that will be required for the new immigrants?
Or will they just be welcome to the very generous handouts the States have to offer!
If so they can have my job and I’ll sit on my backside doing nothing and raking in the taxpayers money!
Good points Truthmaker…..stop WASTING our money and maybe we won’t need to keep raising taxes…..simple!
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A complete overhaul on public spending is required and we need whether backhanders and other payments are being made.
If necessary then maybe legal (civil or criminal) action needs to be taken by the public against the “spenders” who seem to do this so frivilously and recklessly and mostly without our consent.
Shouldn’t the populace have a say in what our money is spent on????
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‘No wonder we have a ‘problem’ with the ageing population – our government has created this by allowing people in who are unable to pay for themselves.’
Again. Serious IGNORANCE. The whole of the Western world has an ageing population. The states created none of the problems and across Europe governments have to cope with the fact that there will increasingly be a lack of people of working age to pay taxes to support an increasingly elderly population.
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The pouplation may be higher as i have met people employed over here who are not on the system,get payed cash and one had been to the hospital but registered as a visitor.I know of others who worked here under local companies as sub contractors taxed in their home country and paying none here
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Oh well excuse the hell out of us James Lim, we poor deluded souls who were born and raised here, and clearly know nothing about our own welfare and how we wish to live, according to your superior knowledge, perhaps we should all bow to your supreme intellect and make you King of the rock and all would be well and we would be suitably contrite and grateful….alternatively if you don’t like it pal…there’s a boat in the morning…
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DF it isn’t about moaning its about facing facts.Jersey is too small to allow wholesale immigration especially when it appears they don’t even monitor who is coming in.
Far enough take in the best under a proper immigration policy. Taking anyone is a recipe for disaster. What will Jersey do in future if lots of these new people in end up on welfare once they have done their qualification period? Who will pay for these people?
Yes there are massive problems up ahead for mankind with over populalion but governments seemed to have turned a blind eye for the moment. However should things become nasty I would expect them to act even if it means a cull of “undersirables.”
At some stage there will be armies on the streets and swot teams as back up, it is inevitable as far as I am concerned. This is why I believe we are seeing the gradual errosion of civil rights in preparation for this day. The people must be made ready to accept what the governments may have to do to them to maintain authority and control.
These are my own interpretations on things as they have been unfolding over the years. I do hope I am wrong, however hope is no guarentee of a good future is it? I believe George Orwell was very astute in his books of 50 years ago. I strongly recommend people to read 1984 by him and see if they can see any parrallels with the unfolding events of the modern era.
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truthseeker No10…I agree entirely, you’ve said it all, and very well.
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DELUDED – in your tiny little island you seem to think you are not connected to the wider world aroud you… NEWS FLASH… the changing face of the world around you will have huge implications on Jersey.
Face the reality, you are geographically part of Europe not the disconnected isolated island you seem to desire. Maybe you should pop round to Calais one day and see all the immigrants trying to get into Britain or head to Malta, Spain or Italy and see the thousands each day who try and get into Europe by risking their lives in boats that barely float! The Maltese would laugh at you for worrying about a rising population – they already have holding camps full of African refugees trying to get into Europe.
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James Lim, is it really necessary to refer to Jersey residents as being deluded? By the way I am not a Jersey resident but I think Jersey is a great place.
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Debate in the JEP is always so furious. But you are all right in your own way.
James correctly points out that Jersey needs to wake up and smell the Bean Crock. The Population will increase.
As most others point out, it is not sustainable as there is not a viable plan, nor has there ever been. They make plans, sure, but they are vitally flawed.
More tax payers should equal more revenue, but as the jobs will move from Jersey rather than to it I would doubt it very much as the average wage will go down and so taxation will most likely go up.
Negative trends, agriculture down, finance down (and will go down more rapidly), tourism down (who wants to spend money in Jersey?).
Positive trends, populatiopn age, taxation (Council of Monkeys cannot envision spending levels at loweer rates or manage the past and current overruns in all public sectors).
The equation does not balance and the States “Members” (more fitting title) or whatever the correct grandiose term is currently used for the jumped up city councillors are, will never be able to provide the solution.
The Islands past has moved from a self-sustained population to one defined by booms in privateering, fishing, agriculture, tourism, finance and housing. These were internal moves to exploit opportunities in the greater world context.
What now? Who knows, but it will be determined by externalforces and not the Monkeys in charge. It will take people of vision to enable Jersey to benerfit from it. However the odds are now running 92,000+ to 7 billion, so it needs to be bloody good…
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James Lim why are all these people trying to get into Europe and the west? Simple answer they are fed up being on the losing end and having to put up with being exploited.
Until the west get their act together and start to spread their wealth around a bit more this issue is only going to get worse. There is no reason why the west can’t help out a lot more.
It is up to the richest on this planet and big business to change their ideas before the majority, who feel used by the select few, flood into and collapse the west from within.
As I have said before this capitalistic me, me society, that is being paraded, as the way forward, by those making the most from it, will only end in tears. A continual transference of money from the poorest to the richest will eventually led to massive upheavels, we are seeing the beginnings of this with places like Sangate in Calais. Keep going and this trickle will turn into a torrent and military action will have to be taken to repel these invaders.
The answer is to have a more even distribution of wealth around the planet. However this means some with too much will have to give some wealth away. As we well know people tend to get too attached to their possessions and will fight to the death to keep them. In this case I believe this is what will happen.
The French Revolution was quite bloody and a result of social injustice. However I see the next such revolution as being global and much worse unless things change for the better for the majority. Give people no hope of attaining a better life and you sow the seeds of discontent and eventual revolution. It is the way of things.
A growing global human population is not sustainable, anyone with half a brain can see this. What is going to be done to resolve this issue? Who has the bottle to sort it out?
Carry on and there will be food shortages, famine, desertification of larger and larger areas of the planet, increased pollution of the planet, collapse of the ecosystem of the planet, lack of clean fresh water. Once we get to this level, violence will increase with the resultant bloodletting. It will then be a case of the survival of the fittest and craftiest.
Jersey is a small part of the much bigger picture and will not be immune from all this upheavel. However it is only a tiny island and at the moment it cannot keep taking more people in, it is not sustainable. I ask how can any place (not just Jersey) support that which isn’t sustainable?
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The current chief minister thinks 100.000 is acceptable in a few years time.
When those few years time have passed and that figure has becomes fact the next chief minister will say : another 5 thousand would’t harm and so on…
Besides how has Duncan Gibaut arrived at the figure of 91800 ? There hasn’t been a census for a long while and all he can say in his defense is : It’s accurate !
With a shrinking finance & tourism industry who says that we can actually increase the population ? Immigrants need jobs and if they are not there they will not be able to live here.
Does Terry le Sueur live in a dreamworld ?
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Adrian – I agree with your points, particularly those with regard to the West needing to solve problems in the developing world. However as my surname may suggest, I am of Chinese origin and have relatives in both Hong Kong and Singapore.
Both places have much larger populations than Jersey but have only slightly more space. When such places exist, I don’t think you can argue that a larger population in Jersey is unsustainable when the likes of Singapore show that it blatantly is. You just have to accept more high rise flats and use land more efficiently. Singapore still has huge open expanses of greenery. It is possible to have larger populations, you just need to think out of the box instead of trying to blindly fight the inevitable.
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Keith No9 – I agree with you! We need to put a filter on the people we allow into the island!
Australia – New Zealand etc all do it so why shouldn’t we! Bring poeple who are going to benefit the island and its work force etc. Why allow in criminals who wont work etc! Just so we (our hard earned tax money) can pay for them to end up in court and up at La Moye!!
I think the population is definately alot higher than the states are letting also!!
Were will this influx of people live and work? We have a large number of unemployed living in the island already!! I really think the states need to reconsider how they go about this!! I dont think they actually ever consider all the bad points about the decisions they make!!
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The Statistics unit takes its figures from people registered with Social Security, Income Tax etc. therefore anyone living here but not registered, does not form part of these figures.
How many people were registered as living at Broadlands?
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Overpopulated, to be entitled to income support etc., you have to be in Jersey for a minimum of 5 years or resident in Jersey for a a consecutive period of ten years at any time in the past. As for social housing, to be entitled to states housing you must have your residential qualifications.
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Absolute madness but thats what i expect from our government, we need to be looking out for our own in the present climate not encouraging more people in, our Health & Social services are failing those here already due to lack of funds. I am sure those comming in will be Europeans, why should they come here and benifit from all our services when we have no rights in Europe.
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The current fixation with population ‘numbers’ is a tool of distraction being used by the current States administration to keep residents from looking at the real issues – and furthermore plays on people’s fears regarding property prices more than immigration.
Forget the ‘number’, instead focus on the real problems.
At certain times, and in certain industries, Jersey faces a skills shortage. The current system of residency, licences, J-Cats, and 11ks will not resolve the problem. At its core the current system allows employers to treat people like chattel property – when employees have no rights, employers have no responsibilities. Secondly, Jersey suffers from ridiculously inflated property prices making it near impossible for local residents to find affordable quality housing.
To address the issues in the local labour market we need to do 3 things:
1 – Keep a Register of Employment Opportunities/Required Skills: Identify all employment opportunities island-wide and ensure that residents are given the opportunity to apply for them – before advertising them externally. This should be done through a central government registry of vacancies. This will ensure that every resident is able to avail themselves of any employment opportunities on the Island. It will also make it possible for government and industry to identify trends and develop measures to address shortages.
2 – Make Employers Responsible for Training and their Employees: Where it is not possible to source a local resident with the requisite skills, then the States and Employer should work together to determine if a training programme can be put in place to train a resident to take on the role – as a States subsidised effort. If this is not possible, then the role can be made available to a non-resident – on the proviso, that the employer requesting the resource has a responsibility to keep that person gainfully employed in perpetuity, until such time as they find them gainful employment elsewhere, or the person(s) choose to leave the island. The employer will also be responsible for re-training costs to place them elsewhere, if required.
3 – Any individual who immigrates to the Island under the above terms is to be considered ‘resident’ and accorded all appropriate rights and responsibilities. The current system of residency and housing qualifications can then be retired as the only legitimate means of entry to the will be via the new ‘Needs Based’ immigration policy.
To address issues in the housing market;
1 – Ban all ‘vacant possession’ of property. This means that every property must be inhabited by either the owner, or a tenant.
2 – In cases where a property is passed by way of inheritance, the property must be inhabited within one year – by either the owner or a tenant.
3 – Ban ALL foreign ownership of residential property in Jersey. There is no reason for foreigners to own residential property, thereby increasing demand and prices for residents.
4 – The States of Jersey, in co-operation with each Parish, should establish a housing authority which endeavours to ensure that affordable/subsidised housing is available to all disadvantaged citizens (unemployed, disabled, elderly) as well as public service occupations (police, fire, health, education).
5 – It should be understood by all, that affordable housing is a right – home ownership is not. Given the size of the Island, and the economic and population demands, it may not be a realistic proposition that every resident has a right to affordable home ownership – however every resident should have a right to expect that they can source affordable housing of suitable quality via rental or subsidised property.
I believe that the above measures will go a long way toward reducing the number of people immigrating to the Island and ensuring that each immigrant is able to become a full and contributing member of society while addressing residents’ concerns regarding excessive population numbers, strains on services, and property price inflation.
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I think it is worth mentioning that Hong Kong and Singapore rely heavily on the large neighbouring territories of China and Malaysia for the supply of fresh water amongst other things.
Although it would be possible to build a pipeline to France the cost would be prohibitive, similarly a newer and much larger desalination plant would be very expensive.
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Hi James yes I agree that HK and Singapore have higher population densities than Jersey.
HK= 6,688 people/km2
Singapore= 6,614 people/km2
Jersey= 789 people/km2
China= 138 people/km2 (a bit surprising)
China was way down on what I had expected for the most populous country in the world.
Yes as you say it is possible to have greater population densities than we have at present. However I don’t think it is a good idea. Do you really think it is good that both HK and Singapore have so many people per km2?
I don’t think the levels found in both countries would work in Jersey as this would equate to
HK figures 775,808 people living in Jersey!
Singapore 790,424 people living in Jersey!
However Macau has 18,473 people/km2 !!!!
In Jersey this would equate to
2,142,868 people/km2 living in Jersey!!!!
OVER 2Million people in Jersey.
If you are saying the world could sustain Macau levels of population at 18,473/km2 this
equate to a world population of
2,751,368,620,000
At present we are around 6,733,164,238
Let us say 7Billion as a round figure and take the Macau levels if reproduced worldwide at 2,751 Billion.
You are looking at a population rise of 2,744 Billion!!! from 7 Billion as of now.
Or to put it in perspective for every person now alive on this planet adding 392 more!!!
I think these figures are way beyond sustainability levels in anyone wildest dreams. We are struggling to feed 7 Billion try adding another 2,744 Billion.
I got all these figures from Wikipedia by the way. I am presuming they are correct!
The world land surface area was taken as
148,940,000km2. Multiply by Macua population density of 18,473km2 = 2,751,368,620,000 people on the planet.
However both HK and Singapore levels would equate to only around 33% of this figure let us round it down to 917Billion give or take.
The above examples show what can be achieved if mankind just keeps on multiplying. Can anyone see why this cannot keep going upwards?
I rest my case James. (No disrespect to you.)
Please note some sources say the Macau population density is 17,310km2 instead of the 18,473km2 I have used. This would still equate to around 2,578 Billion people on this planet.
As per Jersey population levels worldwide?
Only 117 Billion!! Fancy another 110 Billion people worldwide to feed, water, house and find jobs for? What about all the green house gases etc?
I am pretty sure this is all correct, apologees if I have made a mistake these are rather massive figures by anyones reckoning.
Hope this hasn’t bored everyone too much. I found it a bit of an eye opener.
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But Hong Kong and Singapore are city states connected by bridges and tunnels to a large hinterland that provides water, food and many other services.
Not only that but they are key ports for shipping and trade in the area and worldwide.
Jersey is a small and relatively isolated island, attempted growth on their scale would soon run into major difficulties even if it was possible.
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SteveC you’ve been busy today, but I like what you’ve said again.
I would agree that the quallies rule doesn’t work and is unfair. This should be replaced by a strict work permit requirement to enter the island.
For the jobs which local residents “don’t like to do” then we can provide “seasonal” work permits which only allow the right to work (and pay taxes) but not the right to immigrate or receive state handouts.
I think the States should also provide the facilities to learn essential and specialist jobs in the island (or at least heavily subsidise the learning in UK colleges or universities on condition the person returns to the island to work once qualified).
Perhaps Jersey would benefit from it’s own university.
The benefits system could be revamped too. The unemployed or young parents on benefits must agree to attend a suitable course to help make them more marketable in order to continue receiving their handouts. Then once qualified they must be proactive in looking for employment.
The individuals and the State would both be onto a winner there surely, one gets work with probably a better income (plus their offspring will learn that it pays to work rather than sponge off the state) plus the States will eventually payout less in income support.
The States should also subsidise child care or even make it free for single parents returning to work.
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Truthseeker…. you seem to have a lot to moan about. How about you take that boat in the morning?
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Interesting…I had heard that the population target was actulaly 150,000. Perhaps by then James Lim, we will become as you said somewhat like Singapore and Hong Kong, perhaps you would feel at home in that environment..many of us certainly would not. This is a beautiful island, ( I was not born here either!) and whatever is decided must be sustainable for the island and its inhabitants. Many locally born graduates cannot get work int their own island, or buy property here due to the influx of immigrants, is this right? Perhaps we need to look closer to home first to balance the ageing populace?
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It has ben said above that the COM have let people in who have become a drain on society as they now need pensions etc, well if you invite farm workers and hospitality workers to come here and pay them the minimum wage (Because on the whole locals won’t do it) you end up paying for it sooner or later!
So unless we are happy to put local people in fields for the minimum wage regardless of the weather then we have to bear the fruit that we have sown!
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Having just bought a house through the States shared equity scheme, we moved in and started a conversation with a Portuguese chap who lives across the way. In his terribly broken English, he happily informed us we were ‘stupid’. Why? Because he lives in the same house as us and pays ‘thirty pound a week for last thirty years’. Considering he also told us he worked here for 50 years I make that approximately 30 years he has been living under the radar, and if you ask me, paying that much rent, did he really inform them he was working?? Seemingly getting it all for nothing and laughing at us ‘stupid’ locals! Wonder what his tax bills have been like over the years!
SO, get peeved with any young person who is disillusioned with this place and it won’t take much to get a story from them as to why they are miffed!
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AHA, you are right there is a lot to moan about,and it’s time the worm turned,the C.O.M have had a go at doing things their way,cocked up spectacularly,regularly and financially disastrously, so the people have had enough,the system is collapsing and going to have to change,their time is coming to a close and the sooner the better,the pressure for electoral reform that actually works is rolling,and those who care about the place like myself a local who loves the place will take over…..just like when a teenager has a plastic card spree,then the pigeons come home to roost and the card gets torn up…sanity returns and they can only spend what they’ve got..and have hopefully learned from the experience…so you see I won’t be at the dock in the morning……….Yuppies out.
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CM, that is very interesting, and I agree that the system needs to be revamped. To get states housing you have to declare you full income and if you don’t you get charged the full amount. Also, I can vouch that I know of a few families who are 2nd/3rd generation Jersey that pay a similar amount for their States accomodation with no intention to work and have been claiming for states subsidies. In the meantime, they have kids who end up pregnant quite early on and get a states flat within the year, and so the cycle continues. However, it doesn’t mean all Jersey families in states housing do the same though. I know people living in states housing from Jersey, the UK and abroad who have paid their dues, work really hard and pay about £130 a week.
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To carry on Adrian’s theme if we had the same population density of Guernsey the population would be 125,000 odd. Food for thought.
Also, do you think the finance industry is going be so successful in the upcoming years to create the demand for so many new workers?
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‘here we go again’
Hey of course I know so many young Jersey families who are desperate to buy (it was me less than a year ago!) and it is just out of reach for them, unfortunately it is all to easy to slip into the ‘oh well’ state of mind, browbeaten in retreat!
We as an Island should pride ourselves on looking after our heritage and our people. Please will somebody sort out this mess of an immigration policy that allows pretty much anyone from any walk of life to do as they please. This is not to the detriment of honest, genuine immigrants, but will be a God-Send for all concerned.
You would not expect to get a job without an interview and references, so how is it that you can enjoy the benefits of an Island like ours without so much as a second question.
We, the genuinely hard-working people of Jersey (whether Jersey born or not!), should DEMAND that the effort we put in to keep the Island the way it is should be rewarded, upheld and protected from abuse.
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‘Interesting…I had heard that the population target was actulaly 150,000. Perhaps by then James Lim, we will become as you said somewhat like Singapore and Hong Kong, perhaps you would feel at home in that environment..many of us certainly would not. This is a beautiful island, ( I was not born here either!) and whatever is decided must be sustainable for the island and its inhabitants.’
Many parts of Hong Kong and Singapore remain naturally beautiful with plenty of national parks and empty beaches.
I never said that I think Jersey should try and be like Singapore, especially not with the population levels but I still believe Jersey can assimilate more people without there being an adverse affect here on the lifestyle. 150 000 is certainly possible and sustainable.
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WAN asks:
“Does Terry le Sueur live in a dreamworld ?”
Well, who knows?
But I bet he regrets ever having his picture taken in that vista dome at the zoo (Durrell if you insist).
If our esteemed local paper has anything approaching a sense of humour this should be the default library picture whenever there is an article about the CM.
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GMR #1, if the issue is an ageing population am I right to assume that the only people that will be allowed in are couples who already have very young children? This would seem highly discriminatory.
What we need are hard facts here. The ageing population situation will become more and more of a problem regardless of how many people come to live in Jersey. It is a developed country societal problem and reaches far wider than Jersey. People will come here, their kids will reach University age, leave the island, stay off the island (too expensive and too little choice of jobs here)… and what will be the answer to the then foreseen ageing population? Bring in more people possibly?
What on earth makes the States think that when young people who were born here leave so easily, that those who were only educated here will stay? Never mind that people who have already crossed borders will see less of a problem with doing this again should an opportunity arise.
There is a self-perpetuating problem here, can the States not see that? What is needed is measures that help people remain and thrive here (if they wish) only then can Jersey take on more people.
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I would like to know how they are going to monitor the “allowance” of 150 families per year to move to Jersey? I am Jersey born, and all my family are Jersey through and through. The Island has changed so much over the years, the Government have wasted so much money when it could be better spent elsewhere.
We used to have work permits years ago, the seasonal workers were allowed here for the summer season, then went back home at the end of it. It worked well.
I have seem people that have come over here, because they have followed suit, and are sleeping in their cars in car parks. They shouldnt be allowed in, if they do not have anywhere to stay.
There have been lots of comments, but Guernsey is alot more strict on their housing qualifications and who enters their Island!
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“But I bet he regrets ever having his picture taken in that vista dome at the zoo”
That wasn’t a vista dome, that was the bubble he lives in.
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The States can let in as many people as they want. But while these people are of the mentality of living in cramped conditions and spending as little as possible saving as much of their money as they can to build a mansion ‘back home’ the ageing population situation won’t be assisted at all!
Also, a lot of people that come here end up bringing entire families with them over time, including elderly people. In some families that is 4 ‘places in Jersey’ that are not in any way helping the ageing population situation, just taking up 4 places that could be filled by young workers.
I simply do not understand this whole family relocation mindset. I came here to be with the man I love but I’m not about to expect Jersey to take in my siblings, aunts, uncles, parents and grandparents!
Maybe seasonal work permits do need brought in.
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For such a small Island, population control should be top of almost every agenda but our politicians seem either to scared or just incapable of grasping this nettle. We are told that the EU might get “upset” if we bring in work permits as this would infringe the human rights of the estimated 900 million Europeans yet they impose such restrictions on the few thousand locals who are barred from living or working in the EU. Even worse our politicians, especially our “establishment” readily bow to UK pressure of not allowing such an embarrassing breach of human rights for a small native population from public debate. These same politicians seem very quick to shout “human rights complaint” over everything except the human rights of locals. How politically correct and “American” can they become. Perhaps Nellie could add the denial of rights of Jersey people in Europe in her establishment conspiracy list.
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