Population: ‘It’s time to pause’
Monday 1st June 2009, 3:00PM BST.
St Helier is already overcrowded, says Deputy Wimberley
THE number of immigrants entering Jersey each year should be capped to prevent the Island’s bulging population soaring to unmanageable levels, Deputy Daniel Wimberley has said.
On the eve of the major policy-setting Strategic Plan debate, the Green politician has proposed a ‘population pause’ designed to maintain the current level of 91,800 for the foreseeable future.
The policy would involve controlling the number of people entering the Island in line with the natural population increase because births exceed death.
Deputy Wimberley said: ‘Over the past three years the population has increased by 3,300 and this has mostly been caused by net inward migration. This is a massive figure by anyone’s standards.
‘We now need a population pause. We need to stop this constant increase in population. We need to draw breath, take stock, get our housing in order and sort out town. Most of the population increase has been in town. St Helier is already overcrowded and it doesn’t make sense to continue to bring more people into an already busy part of the Island.’
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Wimberley is the only member of the states right now worth the money we are paying him. The rest are useless…
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Just bring in work permits….and I’m speaking as a non-qual.
This would stop the island having to deal with what is perceived as a ‘problem’ once the ‘problem’ is already resident. It would also be fairer to non-islanders to whom the idiosyncracies of residential status can only appreciated (!) once they have lived here for a few years.
I cannot, honestly, see what the problem is with work permits – they are quite simply fairer to all parties.
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The States HR department could start by capping the number of ‘essentially employed’ immigrants that they bring in. Deputy Wimberley could make himself useful by investigating and publishing this data.
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Deputy Wimberley for Chief Minister, someone with some sense and who listens to what the locals want.
Our population is already too high, we need to settle at a sensible figure say 80000.
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Everything from tarmac to drains is groaning with what we already have – let alone tidal rising and being green.
Can anyone explain where the Statistics Unit population figures came from that they’ll all use – no census, no accurate immigration checks, no work permits?
No business could run without knowing how many potential or needy customers are in a limited market. How on EARTH can any States Dept. function efficiently without an accurate headcount? Oh, wait…
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Spot on Daniel.
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About time someone with some common sense. Jersey cannot keep taking more and more people in. The world’s population needs to be spread out more evenly around the planet. Why have so many in too small an area?
Places like Australia, three times the size of the continental United States, can easily accommodate a lot more. What about people trying their luck there if they are looking for somwhere to emmigrate to?
The Australians are so friendly to their immigrants, they just love them. Just think, loads of sunshine, very little bad weather, lots of open space and lots of land for your money. Barbee’s every day of the year, swimming on the Barrier Reef with nice fishes, crocodile steaks and emu meat on the menu, Surfers paradise, why come to Jersey? There’s no need. Not many like it in the winter when its so cold and raining, you cold be nice and warm all year round!
Yes I would say sort out what’s here first before compounding the problems even further. Once everyone is on mains sewers and the beaches are no longer polluted and everyone is properly housed and all have jobs then yes think about other options. Until then adopt a one in one out policy to allow things to stabilize. I strongly suggest an immigration scheme is set up much like Australia to limit wholesale immigration and bring in specialists only that can’t be found locally. Only by doing this will Jersey keep a lid on population expansion.
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Finally, someone makes an intelligent observation about the island’s population problem.
Why then, does it seem so bleeding obvious???
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Forty years ago our population was something between 60,000 and 65,000. It seemed crowded then an I could not imagine it getting to what we have now.
I agree that the growth has to stop, if only for the comfort of those of us who are already here. As it grows we need more resources such as water and power. We will need a new hospital and schools which will mean importing more doctors, nurses and teachers.
I am predicting a natural limit that will happen when the finance industry collapses. After that the poulation will decline quite rapidly.
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Australia is only good around the edges.
Large tracts of the interior are uninhabitable desert with no water etc.
It is a lot like Canada, only a few bits are suitable for more than very sparse habitation by very hardy souls.
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(1)
“Wimberley is the only member of the states right now worth the money we are paying him. The rest are useless”
I absolutely agree.
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Comment 2 puzzled again is right – why do we not have work permits. Cherry pick the best and bu**er the rest.
Wimberley is taking the long term view, the states always take the quick fix not considering what will happen long term.
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Pip don’t let the cat out of the bag. Everyone keeps banging on about how good Oz is! Let them go and find out.
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A first – a states member speaks common sense.
As said above Jersey should have introduced work permits years ago then we would be able to control what sort of people who come and live her – ie no crimminal records, able to speak English etc.
Would save us taxpayers millions in handouts we are now paying
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I agree we need to control immigration but work permits are not the way to go. Guernsey’s system is barbaric and draconian. I am aware of one chap who had 3 children by his Guernsey wife, she played away and they got divorced, he got 15 days to leave the island as he was a non essential worker, they asked him for a forwarding address as should anyting happen to his ex-wife before the children were 10 he would have to come and pick them up as they were not local!
To make matters worse because he had been there for more than 5 years he wasn’t allowed to return (Over night) for a year.
Now tell me that work permits work!
His children were distraught, he had to stop work the day he got the letter and he could appeal but had to leave the Island first as they (the housing dept) only sat once a month
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Just one little problem with this….last time anyone suggested capping the population, restricting jobs, our economic growth was seen to slow down and apparently we can’t just “make do” or cope with a status quo, we HAVE to grow and hey presto, the restrictions were lifted and the population was allowed to gallop once again.Goodness knows why so many people want to be here, we can’t adequately cope with all the people here already and yet ever more development is permitted if not encouraged and the buck is left to be passed on to the next generation.It always makes me angry when I think that one sheep farmer was not allowed to build one dwelling to run a small local business and yet multi million pound contractors from elsewhere are allowed fill the land with ever more enormous blocks of flats to encouarge people to come and fill them! When my last child finishes schooling I don’t wish to disrupt, I will do the island a favour and relieve it of my presence ! I was born and raised here….well, I think it was here…..but the place bears NO resemblance to the quiet and peaceful island I knew and no, I’m not that old that I’m wearing rose tinted spectacles and reminiscing over the good old days. They were GOOD, but they aren’t THAT far behind me . Oddly enough, the economy was largely run by politicians who had been so successful in business they did not NEED to be paid to make sensible decisions in the States, the economy was just fine and we didn’t need to boost the kitty with GST to fill the void left by unpopular public spending ~ mainly on the salaries of States members who never seem, once elected, to then represent the popular view of the people who voted them in. So, I suppose it would be presumptious to expect anyone in the States to actually LISTEN to the rest of us…but now at least ONE of them has had the sense to reconsider the population. Good grief, how long was THAT going to take to dawn as a good idea ?
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Has no one noticed or realised the recent arrivals on this Island are the cheapest work force.
Buy local but often that means buying from a non residentially qualified person.
Not all businesses are permitted to use imported labour, our supermarkets and farmers for example use many imported staff.
Stopping inward migration helps push up the wages and reduce the rents. It increases the quality of life for everyone except those who want to keep the wages low and the rents high.
I am sure we will have a lot of resistance to limiting immigration. The claim will be certain industries cant find staff, when in reality some industries just want to pay low wages.
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The thing that troubles me is that the states will not listen to any of us on this forum, with the vast majority talking sense, much more than any of the states members. Why will they never listen to the people who voted them in???
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Well said Dan quality not quantity is what we need,take no notice of Len Norman a modest chap with a lot to be modest about,listen to Dan he’s the man….if the spending is reigned in we wont need the extra revenue that they claim ,it simply is always easier to tax and spend….till were exhausted and are looking for massive loans to get out of shtuck….enter the european agenda and we are screwed.just another awful place that squandered it,s heritage..next
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Hi,i came to live and work on the island in 1967,after a while we were informed that there was about 94,000 living on the rock.that figure does not seem to change much over the years.how can that be.it would appear that no one really knows how many people really live on the island.or have i missed something;;;;
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Local Chap 20. I believe the population is above 100,000 already maybe 120,000-130,000. Does anyone think it is only 92,000?
I believe the figures are inaccurate. How do we know who is over here, as there is no real method to keep an eye on this? We could easily have lots of people over here on the black market, how do we know?
Bernard 18. The way to get the government’s attention is to ditch everyone who renages on their election pledges. People should keep these election pledges stuck to their fridge doors and cross off each person as they go against their election pledges. Once election time comes around again, vote them out by transfering your vote to new people and repeat again.
Eventually all those getting elected on false promises would be removed from government. This would send a strong message to those in charge to do as you say or else you will be got rid of.
People also need to assess each candidate to see if they are interested in the majority over here and not focused on select areas like big business or the rich or developers.
I believe people need to vote for candidates who are all encompassing of the electorate and not there just for their own benefit, or those of big business and finance. Until people do this I believe things will only get worse. At present 70% who can’t be bothered to vote, I believe if they did we would have a different makeup to what we have now in the States.
I strongly urge all those disillusioned to vote enmass at the next elections to effect change.
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I’m basing my opinion on real figures as there are many complaints that the system cannot sustain the population that already exists but little in the way of productive comments.
To begin with the comments that work permits will solve the problem are null and void, if the work was not here then people would not come to Jersey, rent a non-qualified unit and then start looking for work and if they did more for us as for the short time they are here before they realise that the job market is finite at least they will be contributing by spending in the community which is the most important part of any economy. The current system was put in place to cap housing prices as opening the flood gates would cause them to go through the roof!
My second point is based upon the complaints that the current services cannot handle growth, well again I must disagree and building upon my first comment if further improvements were needed then more jobs will be created. At the end of February 1,020 people were registered unemployed a total of 1.1% of the total population however this figure also includes the people on long term sickness and disability. From this number it is easy to see why so many new islanders are considered essential.
On a completely personal note, my brother has just returned from 12 months travelling, has a history of not staying in any job for long and now looks like a Rastafarian guru to walk immediately into an agency to be offered two jobs one of which he started Monday so I will not entertain that anyone claiming there is no work out there. Those people can continue to enjoy doing the bare minimum in order to collect their JobSeekers Allowance, which again we are paying for.
With an estimated population of 91,800 only 65% of this population is of working age (59,670) and only a quarter of which is considered high earners and employed in the Finance industry (14,917) meaning that the great majority of people of working age are here are not working in finance although it’s fair to say that it is by far the largest single local job market.
Add to this an annual birth-rate of over 1000 per year and an annual death rate of slightly over 700 and knowing that 75p in every £1 spent is generated from income tax and it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that the Island is about to hit a brick wall and needs to continue to increase the number of normal working people to keep increasing the income for the island in order to keep servicing our essentials requirements.
Finally moving on to all the lovely people who enjoy scaremongering by saying that we will not be able to sustain life on the island with increased population number well guess what, we have not been able to self sustain life on the island since the early 80s! We already import nearly 50% of our power as our local production is not sufficient, and in 2008 imported 334,000tons of containerised freight and whilst we utilise 6,300 hectares of land for agriculture an amazing export income of over £25m because the great majority of it is exported. In fact the only thing that we seem to be good at is reducing out waste output which dropped from around 80,000 odd tons to around 70,000 since 2003.
Whilst it is important to be able to air each others views it is also important to keep in view the big picture and not just see that because it is getting harder to find a parking space in the morning or that the traffic takes 10 minutes longer than it did in the 80s that the island has reached it’s maximum population level, that would be the selfish view.
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yes to all of the above.the third world has a better policy of immigration , than our not fit for purpose laws.
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22 Born & Bred
All good and well if your figures are indeed accurate, but I highly suspect your population estimate is considerably short of the actual figure.
However, a huge amount of money is earned by immigrants in the island and then sent back “home” to help their families or invest in their livelihood/home ready for their eventual return. How is this good for the economy?
With regards to the importation of power we all know about that because of the recent 24% increase in charges!
Does the 1020 registered unemployed include all the inamtes at la Moye
Besides who says that everyone who is actually unemployed has even registered!
Although traffic and parking is an irritation I think you’ll find that most of the people who comment on these forums are quite intelligent and are actually concerned more with crime, health and schooling!
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Bring in work permits. The EU don’t allow Jersey people to work or live in Europe so why should we allow all and sundry free movement in Jersey. Unfortunately we do not have politicians with sufficient backbone to stand up for the right of the Jersey people but instead pamper to the whims and directives of the EU.
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Well done Dan Wimberley for making this stand against population growth.
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many commenters
work permits.
They do sound like a good idea, but need to be handled fairly and transparently. But it appears they cannot be used in Jersey for EU citizens. But Deputy Le Claire says that argument is nonsense. So i will have to look see!
3 Marks perpective
“The States HR department could start by capping the number of ‘essentially employed’ immigrants that they bring in. Deputy Wimberley could make himself useful by investigating and publishing this data. ”
This data is publicly available I think. Well sort of, as the States website is so awful as to be next to useless for finding information. A complete revamp is under way, so may improve!
I have certainly seen these figures, if you really need them drop me a line.
4 Annie
That makes 2 in the DW – for – Chief -Minister – party. At this rate it will not be long now.
5 J ( and others)
‘we do not know how many people live here’
I don’t actually think the stats are that bad.
There are 2 sources of possible error.
1 the baseline is the 2001 census. I know the guy who ran that Census (or the one before) and it is a pretty rigorous operation. Not much would escape. However there are probably some (how many?) well hidden people, for various reasons. But not that many.
2 there may be sizeable black ecomomy with people living and working here who are “not on the radar” Does anyone have any solid info on this?
Otherwise the methods for updating the figures year on year are pretty robust.
8 A Nonny Mouse
“Why then, does it seem so bleeding obvious??? ”
I am puzzled by this too. I have to end up believing that if a policy benefits the few and damages the many, then the few must be pulling the strings. Sad but true. Actually more than sad. You could get really angry couldn’t you? And take action at the next elections. There are some honest and intelligent politicians or would-be politicians around.
17 the future’s analysis is spot on. More people in, means lower wages and higher costs for accommodation. Work out who wins and who loses.
12 Muckspreader
“Wimberley is taking the long term view, the states always take the quick fix not considering what will happen long term. ”
Strange how the Chief Minister in his reply to my speech claimed that the opposite was true.
19 truthseeker
“if the spending is reigned in we wont need the extra revenue that they claim ,it simply is always easier to tax and spend….till were exhausted and are looking for massive loans to get out of shtuck”
I agree that there are vast savings to be made. Cutting congestion on the roads, and air pollution would save the island millions. So would reducing the states’ amazing energy bill. More difficult is rearranging our way of life and economy so that we consume less for the same amount of happiness and fulfilment.
BUT I am pro public expenditure where it provides shared facilities and services and opportunities which benefit all of us.
Remember Jersey is a fantastically low tax jurisdiction, which is one reason we are in this financial mess. It just cannot be done.
21 Adrian
“election pledges”
Great idea. start an elections pledges movement. Amazing to see what some of them get up to.
22 Born and bred
I have heard this stuff about perfectly able to work people not bothering from others too, and it really annoys people. Looks like a source of labour already on the island!
But I do not think we should be too putritanical about work either. We were born to live, and we work to live, we don’t live in order to work (and consume).
Nice comments everybody
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25 sanity,
But it is ok for us Jersey people to go to the Uk and buy a house straight away but we make incoming people wait 11 years, we can go to the UK and work but you are now proposing work permits for the incoming English (I assume as you didn’t state otherwise)
The Uk is our first port of call for specialist medical treatment (and yes I know we pay for it) but what I am trying to say is that we Jersey people get the best end of the deal, you can go to the Uk tomorrow and claim benefits and housing, what would our system say if the Uk residents wanted the same? The phrase “the boat leaves in the morning springs to mind”!
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I think you will find that the UK will express it’s collective opinion of the free for all that is their lack on an immigration system tomorrow. All the broadsheets project a big rise in votes for the BNP as they are the only party who are prepared to discuss immigration.
Jersey also has a non existant immigration system based on the failed housing controls. We need work permits – how many school leavers are going to be unemployed when they finish school soon?
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Gary I don’t think islanders can go to the UK and claim benefits. I know someone who was from the UK and living in the UK with his Jersey born wife, she was out of work, she did not get benfits from the UK, she was refused. However a lady fresh off the plane from the sub continent with her children was given an English translator to fill in her benefits claim and claim for housing.
Sanity has valid points if EU nationals are allowed into Jersey no questions asked for work then the same should go for islanders in the EU shouldn’t it?
I am quite happy to have conditions put on me to live in the UK if all UK nationals are treated the same over here. (Not that I would want to live there anyway.)
As per people coming into small islands how can you let in thousands without controls? Even Australia the biggest island in the world, which is bigger than the continental USA doesn’t just allow anyone in. With reference to Jersey 350M people could come here if they so wished as there is no control on EU nationals coming here! However 5-6,000 Jersey people are barred from free movement in the EU! Why is this?
Sorry but the low tax argument doesn’t hold water, as far as I am concerned, as the EU has low tax areas e.g. Luxembourg.
Also Sanity I believe the local politicians are too scared of the UK to bar UK nationals and I believe this is why we have to take EU nationals as well. How can you allow part of the EU access and bar the rest?
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30 Adrian
Wouldn’t the fact that we are part of Great Britain and pay an allegiance to the crown suffice to exclude other EU Nationals?
I don’t know…just asking.
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27 Daniel Wimberley
For taking the time out to address our comments online I am impressed. You get my vote (and I don’t usually vote)
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As per the population level I am of the opinion it needs to be more closely managed than at present. If we were somewhere like Australia with lots of land we could afford to take in many more people, unfortuantely we are not, therefore we need population controls if we are to keep Jersey as a vaible place to live and raise a family.
I would strongly recommend we sort out what we have at present before we bring in more people. Our infrastructure cannot cope at present, sort this out first then move forward, as and when we are in a better position to do so. How can we even think about bringing in more people when we can’t even house what we have properly?
BS Deluxe unfortunately the EU has a free movement policy of goods and labour and this would be infringed as the UK is part of the EU now. This is how I read it. I would use the following scenerio as I think it illustrates the point rather well.
Image before the good old UK got roped into the EEC as it was then, i.e. some time in the past pre 1973.
At this point Jersey decided it wouldn’t let anyone fron Great Britain in except, for people from one of the home countries. The other home countries would all be banned. Do you think this would have been allowed by Whitehall? This is exactly the same as the UK versus the rest of the EU question is it not?
As per Daniel Wimberley I would give him my vote if I could, i.e. when he stands for Senator. These are the sort of people we need now. Those that think outside the box and not part of the suit brigade of “new voice same background music” people.
May I kindly suggest you do vote next time BS Deluxe, as it is imperative that the lost 70% makes its voice heard as soon as possible. I have been trying to encourage people to vote as everyone almost to a person that I know of, is fed up with the way things are going.
Each non-establishment vote that goes by the board, because people are too disillusioned to vote is giving the advantage to the establishment candidates as far as I am concerned. Why not at least give them a run for their money?
I strongly suspect a “full house” of votes at the next election would equate to a change in the type of government we now have. If it didn’t do it in 3 years time it would at least severely dent their control, which would probably go in the next 3 years after that, after we have had a chance to do one complete cycle.
It is up to everyone to play their part if they feel they are not being listened to. Conversely if everyone is happy then there is no need to do anything, is there, and non of the 70% need bother to vote?
This is what I believe in, making an effort for the community as a whole, sticking up for one another, supporting as and when required and sharing in any rewards generated from achievements in a group orientated way. A more group orientated approach I believe would pay dividends as by helping others one ends up helping oneself. This is the service to others (going outwards) approach and not what we predominately have at present which is the service to self (going inwards) approach.
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Daniel Wimberley, as and when I get a vote I’ll certainly be researching your stance on many issues, not just this one.
I haven’t yet met an actual racist on Jersey, but I have met plenty of people who want to know for sure what the current population is and just how easy (or difficult) it is for people to come here. These are things that people have a right to know. People are rightly concerned about the language matter, my workplace has recentl had a serious incident where the main problem is language. It’s easy to dismiss comments as racist but these situations are arising every day and the sensible person will deal with them rather than run scared of being accused of racism.
The comment about why the BNP is gaining in support in the UK seems to me to be correct. They will continue to gain while everyone else gets beaten down by the PC stick.
Common sense is required now more than ever. If we can’t discuss immigration logically because of fears of people misusing the word racism (and it happens on here a lot) then we allow ourselves to be led by emotional blackmail rather than reason and logic. I for one will not bow down to emotional blackmail and would prefer sensible debate on this matter.
A pause is a great idea, not necessarily indefinitely, but just a pause long enough to take real stock of the true current population, the demographic, the jobs avavailable, housing and office units left unused… we can’t make future decisions when we don’t even know what our starting point is!
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Adrian
I have a friend from Guernsey who is a single mum with 2 grown up children, she now lives in a 4 bedroom house in the UK and claims for everything, she has never worked or stayed in the Uk prior to going there ((except on holiday) believe me you turn up and ask for everything
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Adrian
I will certainly consider it come next election.
I haven’t voted before because I never really took much notice of local politics, but as I get older and take more notice I can see how poorly run this island really is and how unfair the system is for everyone except the richer people.
I am unhappy living on this island….even though I am local.
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“1 the baseline is the 2001 census. I know the guy who ran that Census (or the one before) and it is a pretty rigorous operation. Not much would escape. However there are probably some (how many?) well hidden people, for various reasons. But not that many.”
You can’t use the 2001 census as any measure of accuracy for a modern estimate.
Why not?
In 2004 Poland and 9 other countries were granted full membership of the EU, so were granted free access to enter Jersey as they pleased. Nationals from those countries would not have appeared in the 2001 census in any noticeable amount, it’s doubtful even in double figures, yet today there are clearly numerous Easten Europeans in the island.
In 2006 the organisers of the first Jersey Polish Festival estimated 10,000 Poles had taken up residence in Jersey since the country gained full EU membership. So for a start that’s 10,000 extra to add to the 2001 figures on which you are basing your calculations.
We need a census, nothing less. What kind of toytown government makes decisions on population growth without first having a clue about the current size of the population?
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Gary if that is true then I accept what you say. However this must have changed from 15-20 years ago when my friend couldn’t get the dole for his Jersey wife.
BS Deluxe it is good that you are considering it. I would like the other 69.99% to do the same then we might get somewhere!
Geordie has a valid point if there are 10,000 Polish people over here that could take the population over 100,000 for a start, what about the rest who joined at the same time like the Czechs ans Slovaks etc? How many of them are now over here?
Indeed what happens when the Bulgarians and Rumanians get full access to the rest of Europe? We will bound to be getting plenty coming here. As they will work for even less than the rest of Eastern Europe, I am sure local businesses will be lining up to take them on if it cuts labour costs still further for them.
I myself think 120,000 could be a more realistic figure at present. To me a census is needed pretty damn quick, as well as a proper immigration policy to closely monitor what is actually going on, as opposed to what we think is going on.
Without this I believe we can’t ever know what the true population figures over here are.
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I’ve never voted, definitely out of disillusionment. But with Deputy Wimberley actually taking the time to read and reply to these messages from the ‘average Joe’ rather than hiding in that black hole which is the ‘States member’s club’ and I must also applaud Jeremy Macon for taking the time to knock on some doors (something which has NEVER happened to me before) and listen to us mere mortals, livin the life and working our butts off!
These actions make you appeal to the non voter and this is the only way you are going to get that 70% of non-voters to stand up and vote!
As for me, count me in, I’m getting excited by these politicians who are finally going against the grain and sticking up for, and listening to us, and there will definitely be one new voter when the time comes around!
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Adrian,
(1) If we have no idea how many people are living in Jersey, why do you believe the number is over 100,000? Yo’re making it up.
(2) If every candidate had to stick to everything they said in the Parish Halls, what would be the point of debate once elected? Our States Members should be listening to other views, thinking about the issues, and being open minded that perhaps they are not always right about everything and be prepared to change their views if necessary. (And not many do)
(3) Absolute tosh that if the 70% who didn’t vote voted we would get a change in the make up of the States. Opinion Polls are based on far less than 30% and are almost always accurate when it comes to a larger vote. 30% is statistically significant.
What would really help if the usual no-hopers who clutter up the hustings on their ego trips realised that they will never be elected (because Jersey voters aren’t that stupid, really they’re not) so more time can be spent listening to those with a realistic chance of being elected.
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30 Adrian writes:
“Sorry but the low tax argument doesn’t hold water, as far as I am concerned, as the EU has low tax areas e.g. Luxembourg. ”
Luxembourg’s tax take as a percentage of GNP is roughly DOUBLE that of Jersey. So their social services, community facilities, etc are probably better than ours! (not necessarily twice as good though, jersey is actually an efficient jurisdiction by and large, believe it or not.)
34 Leah Holmes writes
“Common sense is required now more than ever. If we can’t discuss immigration logically because of fears of people misusing the word racism (and it happens on here a lot) then we allow ourselves to be led by emotional blackmail rather than reason and logic.”
completely agree. I am not very susceptiblke to blackmail, woolly thinking or intimidation, for that matter. Partly a matter of my personality type.
I also understand how critical language can be, and the possible misunderstandings, even quite subtle things like tone of voice can make for serious errors in people “thinking they know what somebody means”
37 geordie writes:
“In 2006 the organisers of the first Jersey Polish Festival estimated 10,000 Poles had taken up residence in Jersey since the country gained full EU membership. So for a start that’s 10,000 extra to add to the 2001 figures on which you are basing your calculations.”
These would have been picked up within the normal methods the Stats Unit use – manpower returns from all businesses, school rolls etc. As I said the only ones which they would miss are the people “under the radar”.
I still agree on the need for the very best data, so a 5 year census is necessary, if only to compare it to what the Stats Unit tells us what they estiamte is happening, so we can gauge how accurate their methods are.
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34 Leah Holmes & 41 daniel wimberley: What about Jèrriais or French, displaced by uncontrolled UK and English immigration and domination?
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Mike why can’t the population be 120,000 or more? No one knows do they? How do we know the census is water tight?
As an example of this, when the census is done it says how many are resident on a specific day in a specific house of flat etc doesn’t it? What happens if on that one day there just happens to be less people in that particular residence?
What happens if you just say 2 in your household when you have 6, how are the authorities going to know? Multiply this up island wide and the black economy could employ thousands of workers who each might have a family with them!
What would happen if someone came from France on a private boat and was dropped off in Jersey, there would be no evidence of them travelling here would there? So technically they aren’t here in Jersey are they? However they are! Get round that one.
Or some migrants steal a boat in France and run it up the beach in Jersey as it gets dark, and no one notices. How many landed, who are they and where are they? Are they on their way to the UK or have they slipped quietly into the black economy over here? As you can see it is possible to get into Jersey undetected.
As per the boat abandoned on the beach don’t say it doesn’t happen, because I saw one only two years ago, before it was taken away by the authorities.
However no mention was made in the media of this abandoned boat, yet I did see it, as did others. You could argue that it just broke its moorings and floated over, however it was above high tide mark, so maybe the sea gulls pulled it up the beach?
Because of these things I believe the population is well over 100,000.
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they have no way of knowing the true figure.I know 2 people who never put their lodges in the last census for obvious reasons.how many more did,nt?
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Look to the UK all our wonderful States members to see what happens when you ignore voters concerns over immigration – there are now 2 BNP Euro MPs.
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Adrian, so you saw an abandoned boat two years ago so the population of Jersey must be over 100,000? Heaven help us if you see a UFO!
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Mike (46) Too true. Adrin some common sence please
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Mike, what about them? I don’t mean that in an ignorant way, I’m wondering what it is you’re actually asking? And I speak as a Scottish immigrant here who hasn’t displaced anyone.
I hope you have the time to clarify.
Overpopulated, I totally agree. I would never support the BNP myself, but I do hope that their latest result in these elections could be utilised to bring about some good. Most of the people I know have a moderate stance on immigration. This stance is not remotely reflected by the European Parliament. Since there are people who are very pro an immigration free for all, then having people (like the BNP) who are so far the other way should hopefully bring about a balance, a middle-ground that is more acceptable to the majority.
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46. Mike
Adrian’s just making his point(!). If you have nothing to argue against, don’t bother posting!
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