Secret dossier on States Members
Tuesday 16th June 2009, 3:01PM BST.
Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand
A secret dossier containing information on every States Member was compiled by the States Police between February 2006 and November 2008, the States were told today.
The dossier, known as Operation Blast, was compiled when suspended police chief Graham Power and retired deputy chief Lenny Harper were in charge, and are not thought to have related to any police investigation.
The files, which included a photograph of each Member, were kept securely within the special branch office and were known to very few officers.
Making a statement to the House this morning, Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand said that he was not aware of the motivation for the setting up and retention of the files but was ‘very seriosuly concerned about their existence’.
• Full report and reactions in Wednesday’s Jersey Evening Post
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I am not at all surprised at the fact there are police files for each of our legislators. This is standard operating in the UK, where the security services maintain dossiers on all MPs.
But this is not as sinister as it may appear to be.
By taking this action the security forces can warn parliamentarians of any attempt to compromise them.
But – and this is a very big but – in the present case, which principally concerns Senator Syvret, I believe his security dossier may be misused by “more senior” politicians to undermine Syvret’s campaigning on the island.
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Hopefully this will be disclosing any back handers or corrupt officials that might go on behind closed doors. Look at England’s recent investigation into the MP’s scandal. Blatently goes on all the time but no one has the balls to do anything about it
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Well what a stir that caused today in the states lol…
They all keep there heads down on child abuse issues but hey as soon as they find out they have a police file there flapping like seagulls brilliant..
rs
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I would love to know what they have on me, if you ever find out please let me know.Jacqui
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I for one would be interested to know what information they had on each member of the States. Would it all be good?
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This smacks of the FBI J Edgar Hoover times accept when he left office the shredded the files. What was concerning which was found out in latter years is what he used these files for.Those who defend Lenny & Power think on !
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did lenny have something to do with this ,if he did what will all his supporters say now
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On dear, oh deary me. Was Syvret right all along?
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Special Branch have always kept dossiers on a variety of people – if you have political views or memberships of organisations that are left or right of the norm, chances are there is a dossier on you.
There is no obligation to disclose the existance of these dossiers, nor the content of them.
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Oh go on don’t be a spoilsport, tell us what they say !!!
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This is no surprise to the establishment, this news will now be used to ensure the dismissal of the currently suspended police chief. Simpiles
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This is rotten to the core… An exercise in megalomania by some senior Police officers who have an inflated opinion of themselves and their power. I believe this stems from very weak political leadership by former Senator Kinnard and is a complete abuse of the trust placed in the States Police by the people of Jersey. I wonder if illegal methods have been used to compile these dossiers – heads must role over this. In the meantime perhaps the police would return the their attention to fighting real crime… oh blast, I bet I’m going to have a dossier now!
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Do they have dossiers on our un-elected states members?
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Magnolia Man – I think syvret undermines himself quite well without any oustide help!
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Senator Syvret claims he is not surprised. As it was his best mates Lenny Harper and Graham Power who were behind putting together these files that certainly is no surprise. Certainly both Lenny Harper and Senator Syvret have done everything in their power to manipulate and disrupt our democratic government. It is frightening to think what may have happened if these individuals had not been exposed for the power made opportunist they are and after the hdlg fiasco and now secret police files am keen to discover what other dark secrets from this very sad chapter in our history will unravel.
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If they have intelligence on all States Members, who has intelligence on the top brass of the States Police. They are watching us watching you who’s watching them?
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Luv to see what they have on the Bailiff
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Simon comment 9 – if this is true then a number of people who regularly comment on this forum are in trouble, me included.
That’s it I’m cancelling my membership of the Raving Loony party and joining the Tories, I’m not a socialist – honest!
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Not a major surprise. Standard practise in most major countries but why in little old Jersey?! Perhaps because our politicians have something to hide? eg cover ups
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I am concerned, But will wait to what answers are forthcoming before making a knee jerk reaction.
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It beggars the question as to exactly who is running this Island, and why this has suddenly been brought in to the public domain??
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Shhh…. They are watching you.
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Why such a spectacular way of revealing this information and why at this particular time? Senator Le Marquand has been Home Affairs Minister for 6 months, I bet he knew about this some time ago – there’s more to this than meets the eye I reckon.
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Our unelected government is trying to control our elected government.
This is what Stuart Syvret has been saying.
Now can the elected members please investigate the unelected members to even things up?
Justify it any way you want this has to go all the way to the top of our unelected governing.
This is why we should get the unelected out of our government, now!
This is why we need freedom of information.
Our elected are being held to ransom by our unelected. Where is that a part of democracy ?
If one or two are investigated as part of another investigation that is acceptable but if we are investigating our elected members just because they have been elected that is wrong.
I would also like to know how many members are currently under investigation.
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15. sanity
Well said!
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I see nothing to be concerned about, Politicians MUST be above approach, look at what has happened in the UK, Well done Jersey.
What dose surprise me is the fact that the JEP publishes these comments.
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If they were doing dossiers on States’ members, were they also doing dossiers on senior Civil Servants like Bill Ogley or major businessmen like the head of Dandara?
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I think that we have a right to know if those putting themselves forward for public office have criminal convictions. It would certainly influence my decision who to vote for.
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Good thing about paranoia is, just because you think they’re out to get you, doesn’t mean they’re not….
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Sanity is spot on as ever
And given that SS is under investigation, Southern and Pitman have been found guilty and the mob in general seem to accuse states members of irregular behaviour with monotonous regularity, perhaps the police are right to assume that our elected representatives need to be kept under a close watch.
I don’t think Syvret can have it both ways – he can’t claim most other States members are evil, corrupt and on occasion criminal and then get uppity when he finds out that plod has his eyes open.
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#24
What a load of nonsense. Unintelligible nonsense at that.
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It will be interesting to see how this pans out! Is it a suitable excuse to bury messrs Power & Harper or is there some other conspiracy afoot?
What constitutes a secret dossier anyway? is it just a manila folder stuffed full of clipping from the JEP or does it contain genuinely sensitive information.
Is there someone sat at a desk scanning the JEP or is there someone in a black mac, glasses and a camera following our politicians (and maybe us!)
Maybe I can start keeping my own secret dossiers…now who should I start with?
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The establishments sycophants will crow,there you are Power and Harper were up to no good,the Free thinkers aka conspiracy theorists will counter with,Well we told you so it is all bent ,the politicians, cops ,establishment ..all crazy in the pursuit of the drug Power, but had there been a policy of openness,had we a freedom of information law like grown up societies, and had the Govt,an ounce of communication savvy,we would be in a very different situation today,so don’t blame Joe Bloggs, this Govt. is so OFF message it is so amateur in conveying what it is up to,secrecy becomes the first choice,and secret organizations are inherently evil.to restore any credibility in the eyes of the public…GET honest and get open..
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I think its quite funny, i didn’t realise the jersey police follow the guidelines set out by the former KGB.
In all fairness there are probably files on all the people that live on the island, who knows! when you think it cant be possible good old JEP brings it to light. The answer we will hear is the same as we hear all the time now! its counter terrorism!!! what terrorism! there has been one confirmed incident in the uk since the real IRA bombings! where was the anti terrorism measures when that was going on. did we have to put our belongings into a plastic bag when going through customs. NO!
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James 33. at least the KGB were open about what they did, and everyone knew it.
What will the people who wear red tinted specs, preaching everything is fine over here, have to say about this big puncture in their balloon?
The easy way out is to blame Senator Syvret and certain others for this, saying it was a conspiracy against those in charge!
Maybe it was sanctioned off island? If it was, then maybe these people ddin’t trust our politicians and needed to find out what was going on by surveillence?
Luckily we are a sane lot who don’t believe in conspiracies or anything untoward. So it should be easy to fool the punters with some cock and bull story, like for example, these files being planted by anarchists out to discredit the government.
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bet that this is a good read.
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I am not sure what the problem is – these files appear to be simply a resume of information that is available from public sources. If Senator X got caught speeding 20 years ago, it is really no big deal
If however, these files itemise instances of the receipt of back handers and other situations where our elected representatives have been ‘influenced’ then please publish all !
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up the BNP THEN
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Message 26, from Robert:
“What does surprise me is the fact that the JEP publishes these comments.”
This may be anathema to someone brought up in “the Jersey Way”, but it’s what the rest of the world calls free speech.
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Magnolia ManPosted June 18,
This may be anathema to someone brought up in “the Jersey Way”, but it’s what the rest of the world calls free speech.
Exactly what I ment Magnolia, read my post again.
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Does Stuart Syvret still have any supporters? Everybody I seem to speak to appears to be sick of him.
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Adrian
“at least the KGB were open about what they did, and everyone knew it.”
You seriously live in a world of your own if you truly believe that!
The reason behind the dossiers is probably no more sinister than a couple of job worthy high level police officers making sure they’ve covered their backsides. We all know how excited Jersey Police get about things – It’s not a job, it’s an adventure!
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41 Malcolm – Well we might not always be happy with the way Senator Syvret goes about things but you have to admit – very often he is right!
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Erm… am I reading this right? The police have intelligence on the current States members? How can the police have intelligence on them when clearly they don’t have any themselves?
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Police intelligence,bit of an oxymoron going on there I feel.can anyone attribute any bright act lately to them….?
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Surprise surprise! So the chickens are beginning to come home to roost. Well, instead of moaning and squealing about the trivial points involved, everyone should take a moment to reflect upon the fact that this is simply the result of what happens over a period of time, when a bunch of freeloaders sleeping in the States Assembly, are allowed to lazily sit there and vote away, left right and centre, our inalienable Rights and FREEDOMS without ever taking a second thought about what exactly they are doing.
Over the years, Members have systematically sat back and passed one questionable law or statute after another without ever bothering to first read, scrutinize or even attempt discover the identity of originating Serpent (special interest) behind such power grabbing initiatives.
The result, as we can all see, is now rapidly approaching our door step in the form of an unaccountable Police State. A Police State Nanny Government, that is being run by an irresponsibly empowered army of over paid, unaccountable, ‘Common Purpose’, civil servants, who, for the most part, are able to run circles around most of our not so bright States Members
So now our dear Island is left with nothing more than an unelected, carefully concealed, hidden backroom, elitist governing body, that has been stealthily operating deep within the trappings of well financed government departments – in other words, we now have a very Poisonous Snake directing the slither of Island life from within the ‘Cybil Serpent Wood Pile’ behind ‘Crapaud Hall’.
It’s time to stop wasting energy on the petty political trees and begin to take a good look at the growing dictatorial woods that are currently encompassing the Island with the sole intent of choking the life out of our inherent FREEDOMS. We must all take up the mantle and begin to do something to enable the recovery and restitution of our stolen inalienable rights and freedoms – many of the laws and statutes (Ex: PP&CE) that our stupid, lazy, self-serving politicians have so sleepily passed, URGENTLY NEED TO BE FORMALLY REPEALED AND CONSTITUTIONALLY READDRESSED!
Otherwise, let’s not forget that the idea of Free Speech exists for the purpose of protecting offensive speech – not just the fluff and stuff that PC special interests prefer to hear…
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As I have commented on numerous occasions before read 1984 to get an understanding of how things work. This is no surprise to me whatsoever. However others appear shocked by reality, prefering to think these things could never could happen in a place like Jersey. Maybe Zimbabwe or some other such place but not here.
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I think we’re starting to debate this issue under several different headings!I still maintain there needs to be a quick investigation to identify who instigated these files and why, and they (If identified, which I’m afraid is unlikely) should be given a quick opportunity to explain their motive, which could be anything from “They didn’t exist so I thought it a good idea” to “I’m a devious so and so who had malicious intent to gather as much dirt on those in public office with the intention of using it for my own ends”. Either way they should explain the expenditure of public money in unofficially compiling this information even if it is regarded as pretty harmless stuff.
There does not need to be a witch hunt, or a protracted and expensive public enquiry,all that needs to happen is that an official and transparent procedure for vetting current incumbents and future candidates putting themselves forward for public service needs to be set up a.s.a.p.There does not need to be full public access, only full public knowlege as to what the system is,what the information held comprises in general terms,that initially it will be the same for all subject individuals, that it will be held securely by a responsible dept. (I suggest the office of the Home Affairs Minister)under the control of a panel made up of say a Scrutiny appointed elected States member/the current HA Minister/a senior rep of Special Branch/The current AG. That panel would be responsible for the files and any additions/deletions to them. The content would at all times be accessible by the subject individual and subject to a laid down procedure for contesting and removing any misleading or inaccurate information held. Public release of any adverse information would be the responsibility of the Panel with due notice to the individual concerned and would not be without some serious motive for doing so.
Such a system should be as simple and direct as possible and the information placed on file should only concern matters to do with threats to National Security, or current criminal activity.
Such a system would protect all concerned. Any other gathering or holding of information allegedly for this purpose would then be highly illegal and subject to severe penalty.
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Operation Blast, we are told was ‘brought into being’ under the watch of police Chief Power.
Suspended Police Chief Graham Power’s lawer is going to have a ‘field day’ bagging millions.
We are also told that there are files on certain States Members that cannot be accessed by the individual members concerned.
Rightly so. We are told the reason for ‘Operation Blast’ was because amongst other things some ‘States Members were considered to be criminals’
I do not wish to have States Members that have ‘criminal tendencies’.
Look, can you imagine a ‘Minister who is a criminal and has access to many millions of pounds’?
Just in case we do have ‘criminal ministers’ the Auditor General should investigate all Ministries, do an audit. Not only that, all Ministers should be subject to a personal audit.
It can go back a number of years, how many bank accounts they have, how much they have inreased over the years.
Quite simple really, say they started with 10 grand in the bank in 2005 add up their earnings from that date subtract their expenditure, house-keeping, holidays and day to day expenditure. Then if they have an excess to what they have earned/spent, ask them to justify it.
If they say winnings on horses or lottery, you just need the dates so it can be proved.
Ed
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In World War I there is an account, of how a commander asked a message to be passed down the line to his regimental headquarters. “Send reinforcements we are going to advance.” By the time the message got to the regimental headquarters the message was,”Send three and four pence, we are going to a dance.” The point of telling you this is that the accuracy of what was really said or done has somehow been lost in all this debate.
I certainly believe Ian Le Marquand should have been more circumspect before authorising disclosure of this information – I can’t help but suspect those responsible for releasing this news have some sort of hidden agenda or that they enjoy being an agitator.
Deputy Bob Hill, himself a retired Metropolitan Police Sergeant, has seen his file and commentet to the effect that it is a mole hill and not a mountain – or much ado about nothing.
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50, ZBD – Deputy Hill was not allowed to see the file or even the documents relating to himself on the file – he was just told some of what the file contained regarding himself (anything deemed too sensitive is not being divulged…remember?). Basically then even if States members go along to vet their information they still won’t know if there is anything derogatory / libellous held on the file about them – all they are being shown is information that is already in the public domain. The whole point is that tey should be allowed to see EVERYTHING that concerns them personally – that’s what the Data Protection Law is all about. The police were very quick to invoke the absolute word of this law concerning Senator Syvret – well, let’s see them sticking to the word in this context too please.
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JERSEY=POLICE STATE
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Nellie@51 once again comments on things she clearly knows nothing about. The Data Protection Law doesn’t say you can see everything; there is a dispensation to the general rule for the investigation of crime. Before you start saying how appalling, do you want drug dealers and paedophiles calling at the Police Station every fortnight asking to see their files to see how the investigations going?
As Bob Hill said, it’s a molehill, described by the forum malcontents as a mountain.
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53 Euan Mee – no-one is objecting to data being compiled when investigating a crime or criminal acts and obviously this is excluded under the law, however having just attended a presentation on this law I assure you that my earlier comments are correct – google the data protection law Jersey and look under “guidance” – you’ll find I am correct.
Even more specific:
The information has to be for a specific purpose
Only allowed to be kept for the time it is required
Has to be obtained with the consent of the individual
Cannot be used for other purposes
Individual has the right to demand errors be corrected
Individual has the right to see/know the information held about themselves
Even the police do not have the right to keep dossiers on people without due cause.
Look it up for yourself.
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I just love the first two lines:
“The information has to be for a specific purpose” – Nice one.
“Only allowed to be kept for the time it is required” – Another nice one.
The rest of it can probably be circumvented by using another law which isn’t riddled with safeguards!
Then comes the piece de resistance:
“Even the police do not have the right to keep dossiers on people without due cause.” – So, in other words, they have the right to keep dossiers on people.
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