Secret dossier: Call for inquiry
Wednesday 17th June 2009, 3:00PM BST.
A committee of inquiry into the secret police dossier on States Members has been called for by Deputy Mike Higgins.
A shocked States Assembly was told yesterday that a file had been compiled on every Member for more than 18 months, some using information from confidential intelligence gathering.
Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand said that the files, which were suspended shortly before he took over the role in December, had been set up by the police in February 2006 and that he was ‘very seriously concerned’.
Under the code name ‘Operation Blast’, the dossiers contained a photograph, publicly available information, full criminal records and in some cases information from local and national police intelligence files.
A proposition for a committee of inquiry, which would have the power to subpoena documents and force witnesses to give evidence into Operation Blast, has already been drafted by Deputy Mike Higgins, and was due to be submitted for approval this morning. He said that yesterday’s revelations struck ‘at the very heart of parliamentary sovereignty’.
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Well this has answered some of my previous questions and provides a bit more information but the question is still ‘why’?
Did they really need a special file with a photo and information that was already held on police computers? There must be more to it than that.
The crux seems to be the bit about confidential intelligence gathering. I would certainly like to know what that entailed and on who it was targeted?
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“the dossiers contained a photograph, publicly available information, full criminal records and in some cases information from local and national police intelligence files”
What’s the big deal – anyone working in the finance industry has to provide a photograph, criminal records and national and local police checks? No big deal at all -UNLESS you have something to hide in which case I don’t believe you should be earning 40k a year – do you?
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If our policitians have nothing to hide then lets have these dossiers in the public domain.
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If they haven’t got anything to hide why worry?
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The only thing surprising about this is the idea that information gathering and compilation has been going on for only 18 months. I don’t believe that for a moment. The police would have been keeping tabs on all policticians activities and backgrounds … especially the more undesirable elements of the house from the authorities perspective for alot longer than that. I think we will find that this is yet another attempt to smear the now cleared Lenny Harper and his boss Graham Power.
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I do not see why this is so shocking? I believe they should have information abou those who sit in positions such as yours! Its not that much of a big deal in my opinion! If you put anyone’s name into google then a certain amount of information comes up regarding them and the things they do or have done! I think the fact that they sit in positions of power within jersey then it is acceptable to investigate previous history! Criminal or not! Why is there such a drama anyway, its not like its been released to the public!!
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It was rumoured that this exercise was being carried out in the days of the Parkinson regime,so not entirely a “new” concept.
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‘What’s the big deal – anyone working in the finance industry has to provide a photograph, criminal records and national and local police checks? No big deal at all -UNLESS you have something to hide in which case I don’t believe you should be earning 40k a year – do you?’
But the critical element is that you agree to these checks and they are open about carrying them out, just like police checks are carried out on teachers etc.
There is a world of difference between that and Jersey police opening a file on you without your knowledge and filling it with whatever material they can gather.
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STASI!
Taken together with arrests without the need for a warrant is defying our democratic liberties.
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P.S. The argument “if you don’t have anything to hide, there is nothing to worry” was extensively used to justify spying on everybody in East Germany under a dictatorial government before the Wall came down.
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Bruce I think you are right. However there are not many who believe that nothing goes on behind the scenes, as everything is done in plain sight. I think quite a few have had a rude awakening over this!
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I think we as tax payers therefore paying them their salaries ought to be able to have access to these files. Are some of our states members doing things they should not be doing – we need to know.
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A clear separation should be made, as in any democracy worth its name, between the Judiciary and the Legislatory. Until this principle, which has been repeated “ad nauseam” to the States is taken seriously, and presented to “the Queen in Council”, as it should have been, as a prerequisite for any constitutional approval and recognition of the maturity required by any self-respecting self-governing body, the island will continue to figure as a quaint quirk of historical accident or oversight in its thus tolerated excesses as a loop-hole administrative unit, owing existence more to special oblivion following embroiled “incidents de parcours” in the wake of a de facto 1204 status than to any merit as an aspiring independent state.
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Its the part about full criminal records that rings my alarm bell!
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How else do we prevent corrupt people from running this island?! These sort of undercover checks need to take place, if they were’nt secret then the states members would be sure to cover up anything they want to hide plus would find a way to dismiss the investigators
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The question is should all people in power be investigated and have secret files held on them.
Are there files on our civil servants ?
Are there files on our honorary police ?
Is there a file on the lieutenant governor ?
These files are not just personnel files and we should be able to read the information held on file about us.
I hope the files are turned over to our politicians because it would set a nasty precedent if the police could investigate all our elected representatives just because we elect them.
So are we a policed state ?
Are our elected politicians really free to do their jobs as they see fit ?
Freedom is not free, for our freedom to be taken away all it takes is for the good people to stand by and do nothing.
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Syvret is a legend, we need more people like him who stand up for what they believe in, hopefully this sort of investigation will give him some clout
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Joleb, in msg 3, said:
“If our policitians have nothing to hide then lets have these dossiers in the public domain.”
I wonder if Joleb would be so happy if his/her police dossier was to end up “in the public domain”?
Somehow I think this person would rapidly change to a different tune.
That is the trouble with “the Jersey Way”: ‘schadenfreude’ is the rule.
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A retired officer told me this has been going on since the sixties, i guess during that time with the “threat” of commies and all it was seen as needed. Is it still needed, i’d say so!
Anyone in position of power is likely to have such a file, you don’t think People in the 11k club are left to it. Im sure information is collected on them and rightly so, where did the millions come from, are they investing in Jersey if so how much, etc.
Is it a police state or just keeping tabs on those that are in position where they could hurt Jersey?
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How could this of happened? What were Power’s motivations for doing this? Why have they wasted Police time in doing this? Power and Harper have a lot to answer here. They are beginning to sound like they were really above themselves.
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The ‘nothing to hide’ argument sounds rather similar to that put out by politicians regarding ID cards! Now they know how opponents of a larger ‘big brother’ state feel.
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Dave 20. Why not wait for the dust to settle and the truth to come out before wasting your time typing such nonsense.
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I think Hame Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand should reinstate the idea rather than be “Very Seriously Concerned”
I would like to know that the states members are working for the good of Jersey and not just lining their own pockets.
Will the files contain information about which companies the states members own or how many properties they own and if they are in any of the controversial new building developments.
Do they have a directorship in a company that has a government grant.
I know these things do not really happen but I would rather be sure the states members know they are being monitored so they spend their votes for the good of the people of jersey and not themselves…..
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Only an opinion. The more we hear about this Police management team the more worms are emerging from the can. If I had a secret file on me I would want to know why. We are all only human.
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Magnolia Man
Posted June 18, 2009 at 12:29 am
Joleb, in msg 3, said:
“If our policitians have nothing to hide then lets have these dossiers in the public domain.”
I wonder if Joleb would be so happy if his/her police dossier was to end up “in the public domain”?
Somehow I think this person would rapidly change to a different tune.
That is the trouble with “the Jersey Way”: ’schadenfreude’ is the rule.
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That argument holds no water whatsoever.
People become politicians because they make a choice to place themselves in a position of public trust and public responsibilty, working for the public, elected into power by the public.
Therefore they should have no fear of public scrutiny, and should infact willingly accept it as part of the territory.
You cannot compare that situation with the situation of the average man in the street who has not sought a position of public power in the public eye.
Magnolia Man, I surely can not be alone in seeing the irony within your invocation of “The Jersey Way”? Your post is a typical example of the selective spin often employed to defend or serve that very same “way”.
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Dave (24) If you have a criminal record, then it is safe to assume the police will have a file on you somewhere. If memebers of the States have a criminal record, then they too will have a file – surely if they have done nothing wrong they won’t have anything to worry about. I think the Home Affairs Minister should be more circumspect and give more support to the Police…it seems as though someone is just mischief making again and none of this does the Island any credit whatsoever. Everyone in the outside world will now just think Jersey is a Banana Republic, run by a bunch of idiotic buffoons – God help us all.
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Dave 24.
Ah….but some, more human than others!!!
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Will Senator Le Marquand now tell all States Members if their telephones are / have been tapped as well please?
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I would like to know why this is being done, but don’t feel for a minute that it is as outrageous as some of the States Members perceive. It should be made public in my opinion – but that will not happen.
As Islanders, we are not privvy to the criminal records of our politicians, nor the kind of information that could possibly uncover a link to some emerging bribery or corruption scandal or other fiddly dealings.
People in power should come under greater scrutiny, because maybe not all their dealings are going to be in the best interests of the people and if anything, they are more likely to be associated with or having dealings with powerful people and instutions that know how to swing the lead and offer the little deal sweetners which we will not know about.
Given the level of public disinterest in matters going on in the House, we need a separate body to be investigating what is going on and I for one support them in that – indeed would like to see what the mandate for the investigation is.
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I bet some states members are glad that they stopped updating the files in November lol.
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This sort of activity is typical of that overriding policy Jersey Police adopt of using a sledgehammer to crack every nut they come across… Apart from when it comes to sorting out yobs on a Saturday night that is.
These files are private and should never be released. If the public want comfort on politicians’ past then they need to set new rules that require elected (or even candidate) politicians to complete police checks.
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Pip – the fact is we’re paying their salaries and we deserve to have police checks done i mean if someone needs police checks done to do something as mundane as answering a phone or typing up letters i’m pretty damn sure politicians expect to have something like that in place considering they’re running our island! as for Dave – you do understand that since harper and power were cleared this is just another attempt to slay them in public?
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I sort of agree in saying this is a storm in a tea cup but its the hush hush part of it that does not add up. Did the police think they could uncover this old boys network we keep on hearing about? Also why does a certain member of the States attack the new Police team all the time and accuse them of poor work? Everybody should support the Police they are there to serve the public. Why knock them all the time for that? The phone tapping theory is also a sign of paranoia. What benefit would it be to the Police?
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32.Dave – until yesterday if anyone had said the police had secret dossiers on certain people that would have been classed as paranoia as well …just makes you think doesn’t it?
I believe that tapping a telephone line only requires the AG’s permission and no warrant is required…maybe someone would confirm/deny this please?
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Well – I’ve just looked up the proposition to call the Committee of Inquiry on the States Assembly webpage. Mike Higgins may have been talking about doing it but whilst he was busy just talking, it looks as if the Deputy of St John has actually put pen to paper and done it as it’s lodged in his name!
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Joker (30) Political candidates do have to declare certain offences but you are right – most do not require PNC checks so they may well have other offences under their belt. The Constables do have to have PNC checks though because of them being in charge of their Honorary Police forces. They’re not published but unless I am mistaken, they have to be disclosed to the AG before the Constable can be sworn in. (This happens for all Honorary Police, so I’m sure Constables would be included)
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Perhaps we should wait until our new Chief of Police releases his report before rushing in to spend hundreds of thousands on another enquiry. It might just be another harperism. Where do these politician think all the money comes from or is that just “establishment” thinking.
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Interesting. I wonder if this has anything to do with diverting attention or discrediting certain individuals before the issues surrounding the child abuse enquiry and the removal of both Harper and Powell are investigated. Seems very tactical to me, not to say it isn’t an issue that needs to be opened up.
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Before everyone gets carried away with this perhaps we should wait for the result of this investigation as to who it was who instigated these files in the form in which they now exist, and when? Only then will it be appropriate to comment with any authority.Any thing else is pure conjecture and speculation and serves no purpose other than to cloud a sensitive and volatile issue.
As a way forward, prehaps States Members should turn their expensive time and attention into establishing a formal and openly transparent system for checking into the suitability of persons putting themselves forward for public office, specifying in so doing precisely what information should (Would) be gathered and recorded,and where and how the information would be kept and who would have ready access to it.If there are sensitive and/or personal facts for which there are accepted extenuating circumstances but which might cause an individual personal embarrassment if placed in the public domaine then either establish a means of officially recording that information on the basis that it would be released publicly only if subsequently proved necessary or alternatively suggest the individual reconsider their position.
Such files should be held by Special Branch with an appropriate line of reporting to a committee of control comprised of States Members and including one of the senior law officers possibly the AG.
Why would this vetting be necessary? well for example to guard against an active member of a terrorist organisation standing for public office or someone who is a threat to national security.
The key is not to include irrelevant factors or indulge in petty complexity when deciding on precisely what information should be held.
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I think the idea of files such as these are good idea. They could protect the general public and the politician themselves.
But why the secrecy ? I too am concerned
It should be a normal procedure to keep a file on current Politian’s, but with their knowledge and they should be able to read their own in case of mistakes
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40.PJG – Yes, I agree with this. It is the secrecy aspect that’s the cause for concern and the persons concerned not being able to amend any errors as per current data protection procedures.
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What’s all the panic? Just because someone has let the cat out of the bag, people are running around like headless chickens.
Should you need protection from blackmail is it a good idea to be in public office? Indeed would people vote for you if they knew? I believe honesty is the best form of defence. It would also stop any potential blackmail and mean the voters would know who they are voting for, character wise, which I feel is very important especially for government office.
I can’t see what all the fuss is about, not many seemed bothered when a certain politician’s place of abode was raided, which is just as bad in my book. Either people are concerned about civil rights or they’re not.
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Oh, come on. Are people seriously claiming that this is invasion of privacy? A certain Mr Obama – I think I am correct in stating that one unofficial title that he holds is “leader of the FREE world” – are we going to assume the the President of the USA has no secret dossiers on him? Come on, it is the responsibility of people like special branch to ensure that we have just and true people leading us. I’m sure there is dirt in the files but it is not the right of the general public to access the files just because we voted them in. They are still allowed some privacy.
I’m sure if there was anything uncovered that would concern the public we would have heard about it as the necessary LEGAL actions should have been taken.
My concern is – I hope they didn’t make dossiers of candidates during the elections! There is enough record of me finishing last!
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Philip Landick 13. How right you are and well said…..”The accumulation of ALL powers,legislative,executive and judiciary in the SAME hands whether of one, few or many and whether hereditary,self appointed or elective ,may justly be pronounced the very definition of Tyranny” James Madison.
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Surprise surprise! So the chickens are beginning to come home to roost. Well, instead of moaning and squealing about the trivial points involved, everyone should take a moment to reflect upon the fact that this is simply the result of what happens over a period of time, when a bunch of freeloaders sleeping in the States Assembly, are allowed to lazily sit there and vote away, left right and centre, our inalienable Rights and FREEDOMS without ever taking a second thought about what exactly they are doing.
States Members have systematically sat back and passed one questionable law or statute after another without ever bothering to first read, scrutinize or even attempt discover the identity of originating Serpent (special interest) behind such power grabbing initiatives.
The result, as we can all see, is now rapidly approaching our door step in the form of an unaccountable Police State. A Police State Nanny Government, that is being run by an irresponsibly empowered army of over paid, unaccountable, ‘Common Purpose’, civil servants, who, for the most part, are able to run circles around most of our not so bright States Members
So now our dear Island is left with nothing more than an unelected, carefully concealed, hidden backroom, elitist governing body, that has been stealthily operating deep within the trappings of their well financed government departments – in other words, we now have a very Poisonous Snake directing the flow of Island life from within the ‘Cybil Serpent Wood Pile’ behind ‘Crapaud Hall’.
It’s time to stop wasting energy on the petty political trees and begin to take a good look at the growing dictatorial woods that are currently encompassing the Island with the sole intent of choking the life out of our inherent FREEDOMS.
Besides demanding an inquiry, it’s time to stand up and begin to do something, such as, demanding the recovery and restitution of our stolen inalienable rights and freedoms – many of the laws and statutes (Ex: PP&CE) that our stupid, lazy, self-serving politicians have so sleepily passed, URGENTLY NEED TO BE FORMALLY REPEALED AND CONSTITUTIONALLY READDRESSED – NOW!
Otherwise, let’s not forget that the idea of Free Speech exists for the purpose of protecting offensive speech – not just the fluff and puff that PC special interests prefer to hear…
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It doesn’t strike me as a particularly big deal that files are kept on people in office, after all finance compliance teams will do background checks on potential customers particularly if they are wealthy or politically-exposed. I for one am glad that someone had the foresight to commission this as it may well go some way to protecting us from anyone “really” corrupt from getting into power.
It’s unfortunate that this exercise was kept secret – but how could it have ever been approved openly? The establishment would have just blocked it.
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Frank Walker as new Chief Minister became the equivalent of Tony Blair at the time. Is it really that bad that our police force would want to protect our leaders and be prepared with counter intelligence. At the time in world events you had a real terrorist threat so I would have thought all police forces across the globe would have had to assess political leaders against a terrorist backdrop.
I would suspect most countries hold files for politicians own protection. You would need to keep it within a select few, especially on an island like Jersey.
As Jersey has no party politics there is no vetting system by the parties as in the UK therefore we have to trust the individual elected one hopes that they all have integrity.
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