The battle for Fort Regent
Tuesday 23rd June 2009, 2:57PM BST.
Home to many a Swimarathon, gala, canoeing session and hours of fun falling off an inflatable octopus – but now the pool is silent, empty and covered by netting (00711438)
A GROWING number of Islanders are calling for Fort Regent to be restored to its former glory.
So far, 1,700 people have joined a group on the social networking website Facebook asking the States to bring back former attractions such as the cable cars.
Membership of the group, called ‘Restore Fort Regent to its former glory – cable cars, swimming pool, etc’ has been growing fast and almost 200 Islanders have now posted their views online about the subject.
The Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny panel are currently carrying out a review of the community centre and panel member Deputy Montfort Tadier has been using the online group to encourage Islanders to attend Scrutiny meetings on the subject.
The centre still provides a much-needed base for many of the Island’s sports clubs, and remains the only venue in Jersey which can host large shows. However, the facilities which once enticed thousands of tourists and Islanders up to the Fort are now nothing but faded memories.
• Words: Anthony Dearie
• Pictures: Richard Wainwright
• Picture sales: Click here
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Fort Regent used to be glamourous?
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what a great idea to bring this iconic building back to its former glory.
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Hapy memories of ‘The Fort’. The history of the place is such it shouldn’t be forgotten. In 2002 an unkown soldier was uncovered at Serre in Northern France. He was one of 88 soldiers of the King’s Own killed on the 1st July 1916, the first day of the Battle of the Somme. The Regiment were at Fort Regent in 1911. A 1912 Jersey penny was found in the man’s personal pocesions.
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I’m not so sure about the cost of cable cars but to bring it back as it was would be wonderful. Many fun packed school holidays were spent there with my children and we really need a swimming pool towards the east of the Island. The Waterfront pool is just not the same.
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A good idea.we need something like this.It is a shame not to use it especially the pool rather than paying WEB for one at the waterfront.
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Bring back the cable cars and Fort Regent as it used to be ‘ a tourist attraction ‘…
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Access is the crux of the problem I say forget the cable cars they were a safety nightmare.
Turn Snow Hill into a much needed car park for the area with escalators that give access to the fort from the centre of town.
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Yes we want Fort Regent back not only for the people of Jersey but for our children! Big wheel,bumper cars,ghost train,amusement arcade and how about placing a skate boarding park up at the very end where the big snake slide used to be! How about a pool room and snooker room, an ice skating rink (a permanent one!). Its a fantastic idea! How about a play area for the younger children up to 5yrs! Could even have an area where children could make jewellery and pottery and buy the items that they make. This place wouldnt just be for the children but also a great tourist attraction! Myself misses Fort Regent and its heart breaking to walk the grounds outside to see things deteriating.Theres also little cafe with a seating area outside where people used to sit down and chill out to a meal or a drink. Yes this place definately needs to be restored back to how it used to be.Fort Regent is one of the most safest places where children can go and play under one roof if its restored back to its form of glory!
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The annual subsidy paid to the Aquasplash would have been more than enough to have kept the Fort Regent operating. The Aquasplash is a joke; it cannot be compared to what we have lost. Let the States spend some money restoring the Fort and the Pool back to its previous splendour for the use of all Islanderd
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Bring fort regent back to its original self. It should be reasonable prices so familys can afford to go. It will keep the youths occupied.
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Yes definitely restore the Fort – very much in favour of this.
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as someone who comes to jersey on holiday and to visit my sister, I would welcome fort regent being updated . In return it would provide Jersey with excellent facilities which are much needed!
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I appreciate that the states can not justify the funds of just payig for the whole of the fort to be done up so why not ask for keen islanders such as the ones above to help volunteer to fix the place up a bit and why not get the kids involved too. Im sure some of the people on probabtion could be used to help do the place up. It doesnt have to cost millions to make the place better then it currently is.
Why dont a few building companies offer to supply the materials and a few people offer to volunteer. I know i would be more then happy to put some time in and do whats best for Jersey…
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13. Danny – Yes indeed. I bet a lot of clubs would be willing to get involved too in order to get themselves a place to meet / practice their skills e.g. the model car club are always happy to let spectators have a go but they don’t have a proper place to carry on their hobby. I believe that quite a few youngsters would like to have computer gaming facilities where they could have team competitions – surely businesses would let them have their old computers when they’re replacing them and the youngsters/their contacts would all be happy to set it up? A few tables / desks and a lick of paint on the walls would probably suffice with a small charge for electricity / services.
We need to develop more of a community based approach to the fort and not only would it save the taxpayer money but it would also give those who used the facilities more of a vested interest in its upkeep.
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Why not sell it to a developer and let them build luxury flats that the locals can,t afford
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I agree wholeheartedly with most of the comments here already – BRING BACK FORT REGENT !! I have so many happy memories of going up there as a boy with my family and spending hours and hours on the dodgems and so on, that it would be great if Jersey had a major tourist attraction )no offence to any of those that struggle on in spite of the reduced influx of tourists) once again.
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It should be sold to developers and the money raised should be allocated to fund pay rises for politicians and senior civil servants.
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Well I hope some States members are reading some of the excellent ideas put forward above,in particular, 8. Pedigree Bean who has some excellent alternative suggestions to the more obvious ones, and 13. Danny whose idea of voluntary help to restore the place is marvellously public spirited and would I am sure receive alot of support from clubs and societies etc.As usual I have no end of suggestions:-
1)Some of our out of work construction industry employees could be employed on contract to the States at realistic but market rates to carry out/supervise specific tasks.
2)Trainees from Highlands/Schools doing building/plumbing/electrical courses could get some real hands on work experience.
3)As could some of the inmates at La Moye who could do with a constructive day or two “out”?
4)7.PJG’s comment re the cable cars being a security nightmare needs further expansion. I think the cable cars have a much greater role to play than just simple access to the Fort. Properly run, and supervised we could have a Commuter/Tourist cable car service running out to the East of the Island. The technology exists and is in use all over Switzerland (e.g.Mt Pilatus to Lucerne)The cars could even be personalised (Commuter pays) as they can be added or removed at the cable stations. I agree that access to and from the Fort is better achieved by escalator from Snowhill due to drunken behaviour, but the cable car station on the Fort could be the town terminus for the much larger scheme aforementioned.Advantage: fulltime local jobs/less cars commuting.
(Privacy can be ensured by computer controlled frosting glass where premises might be overlooked.)
5) The Pool should be renovated for proper competitive use if the one on the waterfront is not suitable for this purpose. However there is scope to develop a modern Health Spa similar to that recently built in Bath, with a rooftop Cafe with plunge pool and a view to die for! i.e.technology has moved on, so knock down the hanger like 1960′s cheapo building and put up one with glass walls and unrivalled views as in Bath.The full size proper competative training pool could be on the groundfloor.
6)The car parking in Snowhill could be a hydraulic stacking system rather than a concrete monstrosity!This technology exists, takes up less space and works elsewhere (Tokyo)why not here?
7) Suggestions for a dry ski slope keep getting shot down on cost assessments that were made several years ago. There have been huge advances in technology here and it is now possible to have a real snow slope, and toboggan run without spending vast amounts.Such a facility has attractions for residents as well as visitors, and properly run would at least break even and provide valuable bad weather entertainment for tourists and Islanders(Maybe even a few Olympic entrants, and fulltime local jobs).
8)Of all Pedigree Bean’s suggestions above, a sizeable state of the art amusement arcade with an affordable entry fee (but otherwise free)is an absolutely vital facility as much needed all weather tourist/local entertainment for families.
Such an area could contain a couple of Aircraft simulators (For adults, learn to fly?)and simulator rides (A la Disney) for the children.
Yes spend good money but spend it wisely on quality features that produce an ongoing return. And as for maintenance well rehab for La Moye inmates would at least provide a basic work force as would contract jobs for the self employed small local builder when times are slack.This is the way forward, pick the brains of other local authorities out there who already operate these things, but above all remember quality,you get what you pay for, don’t buy rubbish!
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Tourism at the levels of yesteryear are finished in Jersey. The SOJ may disagree but ask any of tourist focused business and they will tell you they just about get by.
It was the down turn in tourism that caused FR’s decline in the first place and turning FR into a major tourist attraction will not work in the long run.
I agree that the attractions everyone misses so much should be brought back. But i think we missed a trick by turning the old abattoir into a shopping aracde. Incorporating shops with all the amusements, entertainment swimming pool etc would primarily be a great centre for Islanders, secondly it would benefit tourist as well.
Never going to happen though.
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It’s about time the swimming pool is restored to its full glory. Making it a 50m swimming pool for the swimming clubs to train in and to allow them to organise larger swimming competitions for the Island. Allowing them to bring over swimming clubs from the mainland. The Island has a lot of talent which is not able to reach its full potential without a 50m pool. The waterfront pool is a very small leisure pool and is completely inadequate!
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When the pool was built there was a tremendous amount of woffle from the then Sport and Leisure States bods about the absolute neccesity of a 50m pool for sports purposes.
Several decades later this need seems to have been completely forgotten or to have evaporated completely!
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Awww nostalgic! Who else remembers the dancing fountains?! Hahaha! And when the terracota chinese warriers were on show! And of course all the already mentioned, the crazy golf (who needs adventure golf, the traditional crazy golf was just as fun!), the cable cars, ooo bring back the Fort!!
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It is hard to justify spending so much money on our heritage buildings which although pretty have very little function apart from being historical objects.
Spending our money on parks, Fort Regent, public places that have a function.
Please ensure these public places can be used by all, no more money should be spent on yachting facilities for instance.
A car park and access to Fort Regent from Snow Hill with a secure bicycle parking area with lockers would be an asset to St Helier.
We would have parking a park and a new facility in town open to everyone.
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Restoring the Fort as it was would be a big mistake. The facility will never be a rival to Blackpool, and the “Kiss me quick hat” style of tourism which was already in decline by the time this development was originally built is a thing of the past.Blackpool has nostalgia on it’s side, Fort Regent does not.What is needed now is some imaginative development providing a broad range of activities.A swimming pool purely for training competitive swimmers is a commercial non starter, but linked to a bright modern Health Spa geared to provide a relaxation,exercise and detox type holiday package, it suddenly caters for a demand that could financially support both activities.Expanding the cable cars as a public transport facility and tourist attraction provides yet another unique facility which encourages tourists out of St Helier to other centres in the East of the Island.It also provides a service to residents for year round use. A well equiped modern amusement arcade facility making maximum use of modern simulators and computer technology provides a valuable indoor family entertainment facility as a bad weather alternative to Beach and outdoor activities.As does an indoor ski slope and toboggan run.What about a laser type clay pigeon shooting facility and/or combat laser facility? Just fettling up old facilities is not sufficient to ensure ongoing viability.The Rotunda would be an excellent site for the simulators and as a focal centre for the Amusement Arcade facilities.Lots of ideas but please no cheapo approach, it has to be a class act to attract today’s consumer. And please no clowns they are sadly over-rated as a modern child pleaser.Maybe a link with Aardmann or some other UK animation company? (Wallace and Gromit, Shaun the sheep,Timmy, Postman Pat?)
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Many of the suggestions above are good – ski slope for example. Unfortunately Jersey people want facilities but don’t want to pay for them, see today’s news where people are using other’s cards to get into the Zoo without paying.
I would imagine that FR’s running costs (all civil servants?) are so high that real entry fees etc need to be really quite high for any attractions
I was told years ago that Centreparcs wanted to take FR over – what a good idea, but the civil servants unions objected
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I have so many great memories of the Fort when I was a young girl. All the attractions outside made it the place to be in the summer and the roller disco on a Friday night, all the shows they used to hold. Nowadays, I hardly ever visit what used to be one of the main attractions and when I do I feel disappointed. Its such a shame. I think the Fort needs to be revived. There is nowhere for young kids to go these days! It would be a great place to put a skate ramp up there too. Make it a great place for kids to go nowadays. Bring back the membership cards and the fun days!
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Nick 18
Security was probably a poor choice of words, perhaps H&S would have been better
I remember when we had cable cars running before. To say the service was intermittent would be putting it mildly. This sort of transport requires intensive maintenance and independent testing, cables, rollers, pylons, cars regardless of passengers carried, maintenance of this sort of equipment can be compared to an aircraft, the failure of the smallest item could result in a catastrophe. .In short its very expensive unless used to capacity 24/7. Ski slopes being an example of its ideal conditions, people using it 20,30 or even 40 times a day each. The fort would never generate that type or amount of visitors.
And of coarse drunken yobbish behaviour. Spitting and throwing all sorts of unsavoury things from windows onto those below was commonplace, one of the favourites was to see who could rock the cars from side to side the furthest, the winner being the one who enforced the cable to stop. One of my memories was the unreasonable fear of the cable cars experienced by some people, this is not as rare as one may think.
I am not poo pooing your idea I see many merits in it. Just that lot of research needs to be done first.
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I am inclined to agree 25 Overpopulated, but if States members dont stop wasting money and valuable time arguing amongst themselves, conducting expensive timewasting enquiries over every little thing that doesn’t please everybody,and get on with diversifying the economy away from property development and finance then future generations of Islanders are going to be in an increasingly vulnerable position, totally dependant on the goodwill of our larger neighbours,which could change at anytime.The real travesty about FR is that there was not a medium to longterm plan formulated when it was roofed in as to how to develop it.How much money has been wasted allowing it to deteriorate and become unproductive? The Rotunda was the Island’s (possibly Europe’s) most expensive private carpark, and probably still is? When the Tourists (such as they are),day trippers from France {On the increase),and short break holidaymakers are hit by bad weather here where do they go? Many of the ideas put forward above are able to be subcontracted out to create small local businesses some seasonal some fulltime: e.g.Provide the cable car hardware but subcontract it’s operation,rent out the Rotunda and allow a local operator to establish a state of the art amusement arcade there,only lay down the standard expected as part of the individual contracts.Keep the competitive swimming pool as a public facility but fund it by renting out the operation of the up market Health Spa to a separate private operator.Again set the standard of the thing as part of the contract.The Health Spa could have some accommodation facility attached or a deal with local hotels and guesthouse without these facilities in house? In fact let out all the “attractions” large and small on 10 year operating contracts to separate businesses subject to annual constructive review and a 5 year reappraisal. Provide financial assistance with maintenance and upkeep, and advertising support.Give it high profile at all points of entry to the Island.Make sure that each contractor has a fallback plan if their particular sector fails to attract custom.Simulators and up market amusement arcade machines are expensive items so provide a States guarantee scheme for the leasing of these items.It’s about creating local work outside the main areas of current successful economic activity and making maximum use of existing assets by reviving flagging economic sectors. Sub contracting the whole thing to one operator from outside the Island puts the local workforce at the mercy of an operator who can threaten to bring in outside “Expertise”.It also means that operator can make a loss elsewhere and axe the whole shebang here or else hold the States to ransom for public funds.No this is about creating businesses and jobs for local residents under local management, sink or swim, and about providing the right sort of support to give them the greatest chance of success. By spreading the risk amongst a number of contractors you are keeping individual costs / potential earnings to a minimum and increasing your percentage chance of overall success.You then don’t get the whole place shutting down overnight because one operator has made a hash of it.
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Yes PJG behaviour is a problem so I think access to the Fort from Snow Hill should be by escalator or attended lift. As for the cable cars, commuter use is important for the economics of the thing, and the Station up on the Fort would be the Town Terminus with say three or four stations on the way to Gorey (Disguise these as granite barns in country locations). I agree some careful investigation is necessary, and the Swiss seem to be the people to ask as they do operate cable cars in this fashion. You do not need to go to a great height for the cross country sections. As for drunkeness, access to the cars would be controlled by the operator attendants at the stations.Penalties would be financially debilitating for throwing items out,which I am not sure is possible in a modern cable car?Anyone causing a mess gets presented with a bucket and mop or sponge and supervised to clear it up!(I think penalties for destructive behaviour by underage persons are far to namby pamby these days.I favour the American idea of so many days clearing up some of the more unsavoury town bin sites or removing graffiti,cleaning smelly seaweed off the Beach, scraping bird droppings off public buildings and monuements etc.All under supervision.Obviously we can’t bring back public birching in the Royal Square!as a deterrent it was very effective in the past)Vandals pay for any damage in full!The Swiss are not reporting accidents and fatalities everyday, or vandalism and bad behaviour, so they must have some of the answers?I do admit that the cable cars are one of the more capital intensive ideas, but they are very fuel efficient, would take cars and commuters into and out of St Helier off the road,and as such are a carbon efficient investment in the future for when oil runs out!And they would provide some fulltime local manual and supervisory jobs. Why out to the East? well they’ve built on the old railway line route out that direction, unlike out to St Aubin and the West.(A route for which I have another idea)
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Nick
The original cable cars were an expensive mistake. An escalator or lift (like the one in Hastings) might have been simpler.
A commuter cable car service from Gorey would surely make us the laughing stock of the western world.
Imagine being overtaken, or should I say undertaken by cyclists down below.
As for your yet to be revealed plans for St Aubin, I hope you are not going to use my idea – a bullet train!
Unlike these people with short memories, when I say “Turn it back into Fort Regent” I mean restore it to the pre pleasure dome era, complete with coal dump, signal station and Sea Cadets.
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I think in this case, the states have to spend the money to make the money
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rather than cable cars, why not a monorail or tram system?
…. or jet packs
We could position small stations at various strategic points in the island and adopt a park & ride facility for the very lazy! And hopefully the service could be automated and run 24/7!
We can do away with the poor bus service then.
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Yes 30 R.B.Bougoud, the original cable cars were an expensive mistake, but I put it to you that the reason was that they did not go anywhere or offer any kind of scenic experience? What was the point of putting such a facility in what is effectively the Islands mini version of Cheddar Gorge? What were you offering the consumer?I’ll tell you the answer: A two minute ride with a view of a cliff, a carpark and people’s dustbins.No wonder occupants started to think up their own destructive entertainment!This was under using a serious piece of kit and reducing it to the level of a fairground roundabout. A prime example of not spending enough to do a job properly, and not realising that in order to create a tourist attraction you have to offer some kind of draw or experience the prospective consumer would not get elsewhere. Well now lets see? apart from Switzerland where else makes a show with cable cars? I give you CapeTown/Rio/Hong Kong to name three. Admitedly we don’t have Table Mountain (But we do have tremendous sea views, FR and Gorey Castle,the latter at night even floodlit!) We don’t have a giant man-made statue of Christ either as in Rio (Yet? how about our own Angel of the South,or a giant Jersey Cow on top of the new incinerator? Joke)Oh! yes, and I think Niagra Falls has cable cars?
Why we would be a laughing stock I’m uncertain,the Swiss (Whom I am saying we should consult in any feasability study)dont strike me as a nation famous for their humour when spending public funds. The whole purpose of making the service commuter and tourist orientated would be to hit the maximum possible market, but the main point is to offer local people a service they can use, and tourists an experience they can’t get elsewhere.On top of that it is a low carbon, fuel efficient investment in the future for when diesel for those buses runs out.Yes there is maintenance, but that creates local jobs on an ongoing basis,and apart from severe gales it provides tourists with a rainy day option to the beach.Someone mentioned the fear factor putting people off?I think in the same breath as calling for the Ghost Train to be reinstated. As for being overtaken by cyclists? Well apart from all that changing into tight lurex and wearing a silly hat (Appealing to some), and enduring everything the weather hurls at you (Not to mention passing traffic),cyclists have to follow the road, cable cars don’t! And if you really want to make a career impression you can share a six man car with fellow workers and the boss and hold a meeting before you even get to work!
We should study the US approach to creating a market, I recall someone there even made a successful tourist attraction out of a cow someone claimed had been relocated by tornado on three separate occasions and survived.(All the tourists saw of course was a cow in a field!)
I do agree however that from Snow Hill to the Fort should be by lift or escalator, the old cable car station on the Fort could then be reversed to face East and that would be the Town Terminus.
Oh, and not a bullet train, but a 15″ Guage railway offering commuter and tourist service to the West like the Romney,Hythe and Dimchurch in the UK (To name one of several). This could have proper minature diesel and steam trains (A tourist and enthusiast draw)This would provide local jobs, be a huge talking point, provide all weather alternative etc.(There is even one of these with a restaurant and buffet car)
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Overpopulated #25 – you make several excellent points and appear to be one of the few engaging their brain before posting all this nostalgic nonsense. Funny you mention the Zoo cards as people were up to their same despicable tricks with the early Active Cards before photo ID was introduced.
To add – the other major problem is Jersey people are probably the hardest people to satisfy in the world. Whatever is built/restored will suffer immense criticism from half the population and more petitions – no wonder those making the decisions stay well clear.
What is forgotten in all this nostalgia (I practically lived up FR BTW) is the question as to where all the funding comes from. You can’t post on one thread the States must cut spending then on the other “oh please restore FR because I have fond memories of it”. As RB Bougourd correctly points out the cable cars were a money pit hence they were closed well before FR demise. It also amazes me those saying private investment is the way forward also moan about what a failure the Waterfront pool is. And for information all public pools are loss making.
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Nicks cable car idea has merit, but will still have to overcome a lot of difficulties, expence of maintenamce and phobia being two of them.
How about covered moving walkways, as in use at Gatwick.
a series of 250 mtr sections from Gorey to Corbeir,
being able to jump on jump off at each intersection. raise them off the ground a couple of feet and they could be used as an easily accessed conduit for services such as Gas electric, water, telephones .
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Nick
Have you actually thought about what you have written? You go through the trouble of noting all places that have cable cars/gondolas of some description but didn’t notice the local terrain they all have in common which is something Jersey lacks… mountains thousands of feet tall which can take more than an hour to scale with alternative transport, some only accessible by climbing.
Why are the States going to spend a fortune on a cable car system when you can access FR with a 2 minute drive or a 10 minute walk up Pier Rd?
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One of the problems with any mass transit system in Jersey is that people are distributed all over the island not just along two lines to town from Gorey or Corbiere. Perhaps that’s why the railways failed.
I would suggest that most people prefer the mobility and independence offered by private cars and furthermore would be so bold as to suggest that most would gladly forgo an increase in the size of the population in order to continue the agreeable lifestyle which both these concepts help to provide.
Failing that, how about a Sedan Chair service up the Glacis Field from a car park at the reclamation? They have them on Elephant Island off Mumbai.
That should create jobs as well as reducing global warming.
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For fort regent to be a success it would be a good idea to keep our politicians well away from any planning to do with the running of it as they cannot run a bath
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Joker and PJG: I am not suggesting we use the cable cars to access FR, I am suggesting we use the defunct cable car station on the Fort as a Town terminus for a cable car system that goes out to the East of the Island. In fact I specifically discount using cable cars as access to the Fort, suggesting instead either a lift or escalators from Snow Hill.The whole point is to make going up to the Fort make more sense by making it an experience you can move on from by another route, and make it interesting.
And you don’t need mountains to operate cable cars, if you travel between Mt Pilatus and Lucerne in Switzerland by the cable car 85% of
the route is no more than 40ft off the ground.
The original cable cars at Snow Hill failed because they were expensive and offered nothing ,not even a sea view, in return.
If you can find the people to carry them R B Bougourd then sedan chairs might be a good idea, an alternative might be the walkway suggestion, however I do not agree with your premise about the cause of the railways failure.I suspect when they were operating the Island population was far less than now and the vast majority had no reason to come into St Helier on a daily basis.As for cars, yes they are convenient, but we are talking about making provision for a more fuel efficient, environmentally friendly alternative.
In short I don’t really care how you physically get people up to FR my interest is giving them (Local and tourist) a reason to go up there in the first place in sufficient numbers to make the place financially viable.As for maintenance,that creates local jobs which is what this is all about I thought?
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Cable cars are a non-starter – too expensive to maintain and man – too open to vandalism as well. Something easier to maintain like a lift would be far more practical – eg pushchair and disabled access. However something would have to be done so that it could be used at night and not abused -perhaps an attendant?
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Nick – “cable cars, if you travel between Mt Pilatus and Lucerne in Switzerland”
Sorry – I disagree. You may only be 40ft of the ‘ground’ but you are still 2,000 meters above sea level. Mountainous terrain is often best covered by cable car since laying and maintaining a road is simply not viable and would probably cause many fatalities. The route you speak of in Jersey can easily be accessed by road and you can see the sea etc from it most of the way, so spending a fortune on building and maintaining a cable car system is OTT. A cable car system would struggle to pay for itself when a lot of tourists hire cars.
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When people demand that the Fort be put back to its original glory, I take it that they don’t mean turning it back into a Fort and occupying it with armed forces?
Could be a great military boot camp for our wayward youths!
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#42, or a borstal…
However, the well-behaved among us are punished enough by having to share a planet with badly-behaved kids, it’s time there was somewhere for the law-abiding to go and have lots of fun that simply isn’t accessible (at all) for those that have committed crimes against others. Make them want what the law-abiding have, cause they don’t seem to envy morals.
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