Brutal assault on French students
Friday 26th June 2009, 3:00PM BST.
The girls were at Havre des Pas before the brutal attack
A GANG of girls attacked two French students for an hour on the streets of St Helier over a cigarette.
The ‘abhorrent’ and vicious assault by six teenage girls, who were as young as 12 and 14 years old, involved them following the terrified 18-year-old students from Havre des Pas to town and phoning more of their girl-gang members to join in on the savage beating.
One of students was left hospitalised after the assault with a suspected fractured eye socket. She was pushed, punched and kicked to the ground – all because she did not understand what they were saying. The students cut short their educational trip to the Island and returned to France immediately after the attack, which took place on 19 May.
This week the Youth Court, chaired by Peter Harris, was shown photographs of the injured students to the teenage attackers – leaving some of them visibly shocked when they saw the injuries they had caused.
St Helier Constable Simon Crowcroft has been left ‘sickened and disgusted’ by what he has branded ‘one of the worst examples of racist behaviour that we see in Jersey’.
Three 14-year-old girls were put on six and nine months’ probation. The 13- and 12-year-old girls were each bound over for six months and one teenager has yet to be sentenced. The teenage attackers have also been ordered to pay £600 compensation to the victim for her medical expenses and mental suffering.
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Probation? is that the most severe punishment the law will allow?
These thugs should be sent to borstal or it’s equivalent and their parents fined or jailed.
This sentance is not a deterrant, no wonder the kids are running riot.
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I for one am sickened to hear whats happened to these french students and then to find that thats all the youth court sentenced these horible little girls too,.
The best thing they should have done is got every one of them to spend the 6 months working every friday evening and saturday day, working for no pay in a community service, maybe helping clean the beaches, streets and even helping with activites for the french students.
They will soon realise what they have to go through loosing there freedom as a result of there actions!
The youth crime stratergy is not working and as a result of this these kids will go through there adulthood with problems!
Human rights state that you should feel safe in the place you are staying or living. This has breached the human rights safety of these french students. The schools and parents who are failing these kids. Courts need to get tougher, do the crime loose your own time!
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And very soon, they will be giving birth to a generation who will have even less morals.
Name and shame these ‘girls’. For the safety of my children I would like to know if I am living near them.
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Bring back corporal punishment,the young dont respect anything or anyone any more. About time you realise this…
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I really don’t think the Court’s punishment of these vile individuals is strong enough.
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Oooooo probation and being bound over for a few months.
Bet the little chavs are quaking in their boots and full of remorse.
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disgusting…
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“Probation” and “Bound Over”. Big deal! Let’s just say what we mean – those repugnant vile children have once again gotten away with it. Teenagers rebel because they consider themselves as adults, so lets start treating them as such. Name them, shame them, put their photographs in the press and make them sweep the streets in brightly coloured bibs. Also lets start fines which actually cause financial pain! £600 between a whole gang of girls is nothing.
We really are now paying the price for a generation of push-over parents who don’t know how to raise children.
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Such lovely young chavs in Jersey – truly life enriching !
But seriously I have lived for the last 4 years on the front at HdeP and every single night through the Summer crowds of young teenagers shout, scream, get drunk and generally make a nuisance of themselves and just once every couple of weeks it seems someone from the Police moves them along.
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Disgusting. Some of the teenagers over here are nothing more than feral animals.
Six months probation as a punishment? Embarrassing.
What happens in 5 years when these girls are adults? Something needs to be done. Otherwise this island will end up on the same slippery slope as the mainland.
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Jersey, life enhancing
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This was a disgrace and not the first visiting students to be targetted by young Jersey thugs. The punishments handed out were insufficient and we shall see similar attacks in the future because there is no deterent.
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£600 compensation! exactly how is that pathetic sum going to compensate the victims? probation and binding over! exactly how is that going to impress upon these girls the severity of their actions, and act as a deterent to others from doing the same kind of thing?
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scum ,thats the word for them , and theres alot of them around ,they need to be flogged not put on a stupid probation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Not nearly enough punishment, the punishment should fit the crime, put them in stocks in the royal square for an hour and let them suffer the beating. that will teach them a lesson!!!!!!
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“Three 14-year-old girls were put on six and nine months’ probation. The 13- and 12-year-old girls were each bound over for six months”
Which is exactly why youth crime is on the increase.
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Absolute disgrace!!
The worst thing about it all is how we are being let down by the so-called “authorities” because they offer no deterrent (or punishment) to such behaviour.
This is one school that will not be re-visiting our island no doubt!
It will happen again and again and again………..until someone has the courage to stamp a “no tolerance” policy!
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makes you ashamed to say that you are from jersey , when in france, generaly when you say you are from iles de la manche , the french welcome you.
why not send these offenders to st malo for a day trip with a placard round their necks stating that the made a racist attack on french women.
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it,s just not enough. get tougher.you must start to hold the parents to the rails for what their off springs do,then and only then they might start to care where they are.
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Disgusting,, but at the same time, did anyone actually see or attempt to stop this whilst it was happening?
These girls should have a curfew.. I was a rebellious young thing when younger but would never have dreamed of doing this.. the parents really should be warned aswell..
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Unfortunately some of our population develops a dislike for outsiders at an early age. As well as tougher sentencing, there has to be better education, both formal and parental. I am quite shocked at the attitudes of some children, as young as 8 or 9, to outsiders (mostly outsiders who work here). I am sure this attitude is picked up from parents and relatives.
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Probation??!
So in other words those little chavs got away with an organised, violent attack – just like the other gang did last month when they repeatedly kicked a man on the floor and were awarded with community service. No surprise that cases like this are on the increase.
This is just a farce, the filth that did this should be whipped
If they had done this to my daughter they’d be very very sorry. If the law won’t deal adequately with rubbish like this then people will start to dish out justice of their own
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The punishment is almost comparable to a minor traffic offence or parking infraction. What happened to justice? No wonder we have no coppers on the beat – what is the point of them turning out and putting them selves at risk when the judicial system make a sick joke. The parents of these students must be asking the question “was it because they were foreigners” as the sentence appears to condone the attacks. Hardly a strong message that such behaviour will not be tolerated. Perhaps it would be helpful if the court were to explain their rational.
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when these human rights came in all common sense went out of the window.everyone started using it as an excuse to get out of any kind of trouble.
Prisoners used it to sue authoroties,kids
use it to sue parents etc.
Most of these kids know it and even threaten their parents to get their own way. A bad law that should be moderated.they have now gone way over the top with these laws.
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What’s french for “life enriching”?
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I am ashamed to come from an Island that does not see fit to properly punish such behaviour. No wonder our school system is at breaking point when the police and courts do nothing.
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From reading the article the victim was lucky not to be blinded or suffer a serious head injury. The remedial dental work required which was apparently “repaid” through the fine but who is to say that further work in later years is not required or that payment for mental suffering which I work out to equate to £420 is a rather paltry sum for probably months or years of suffering for this young girl. The article only states that one girl got the money I can hardly call it compensation. So does this mean that the other girl who I am assuming has no physical injuries just has to suffer in silence?
As for the sentencing it seems in Jersey racial abuse, violence or child molestation is not really frowned upon in the courts the only one that they seem to be strict on is drugs but then the high profile cases are normally non Jersey persons.
There is also a lot of indignation at the racism of this attack on this comments page. However one only has to look at a lot of the other comments pages to see similar shouts of go back home where you came from as shouted by this mob.
Our youth only learn from their elders and judging by the anti-foreigner sentiment voiced on this forum it is extremely sad but hardly surprising that there has been this tragic incident.
Lead by example and teach the youth of Jersey that there is a wider world out there and we need to embrace it and learn from it to survive or we will have no international finance centre and no tourism and no Jersey.
It is a very sad day for Jersey.
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Yet another manifestation of “the Jersey Way”, I suppose.
Nothing – but nothing – surprises me about the way life on this island has deteriorated.
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what utterly utterly disgusting behaviour. No wonder people don’t come here to visit any more. Those animals need naming and shaming.
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Here we go again!! courts are not doing enough as usual,your not doing your jobs properly ladies and gents!!!!! put this scum away forever!!
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Racism gets its power from confusion and misunderstanding, is about dysfunctional relationships. Jersey has a multi cultural population born out of a long tradition of immigration. It is shame for Jersey that in XXI century youngsters can attack foreigners and get away with it. It looks like system is protecting little darlings, not the suffering victims. What’s next?
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It is high time that the relevant authority started to put the “Human Rights” of the victim ABOVE those of the offender. All too often these scum get away with anything they wish because “we must take their rights into account”
Well, the rights of the victims in this case is a right to justice, as well as a far higher level of compensation.
These little thugs should be heavily fined, made to work their spare and holiday times without remuneration(this could be donated to the victims), placed on curfew, and be prevented from carrying mobile phones to call their co-offenders on. Perhaps a few lashes of the birch (which should NEVER have been discontinued) might instil in them a little respect for authority and the rights and possessions of others. We are NOT members of the E.U. here, so why do we have to keep following their stupid, ineffective, nanny state rules?
In a very few yrs these thugs will be having kids of their own, which no doubt, we will be expected to keep with income support, and provide housing for. Some punishment- more of a reward I think.
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Another “nail in the coffin” for tourism?The States don’t seem to be very good at looking after the safety of children.
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Said it before, and I’ll say it again… kids these days have absolutely no respect for the Police, elders or even themselves.
They know that they can easily wriggle out of situations because the Police and courts are powerless to enforce any type of justice that will act as a deterent.
We’ve previously had commments of kids being bored in the evening, I’m sorry, but everything that seems to be done to keep them occupied only lasts a short time before it’s vandalised!!!!
I don’t know what else can be done nowadays, with all the paper pushers moaning about human rights if you even dare threaten to give your child a smack!!
Never did me any harm (didn’t think that at the time ofcourse!!) But I’ve grown up with respect for the law, other people and also myself.
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I’m ashamed, for two reasons;
that these feral youths seem to have been so lightly punished
that this incident lasted an hour and was not stopped – did no one see this happening?
As in previous posts I’ll point out that whilst one needs a licence for a moped, tractor, car, gun or dog, there is no restriction or test of ability before spawning. Thus we have an amoral underclass multiplying with alarming swiftness. When I was at school we were taught a generation was 30 years. Seems like 16 or 18 years now. I feel like Hitler writing this, but I genuinely feel unless something is done, us decent folks will be over run by swarms of scum bringing us and our children down to the lowest common denominator. Just look to the USA with its gated communities and armed guards, with people afraid to walk the streets. As a liberal minded person it saddens me to feel this way. Clearly our current educatiuonal and social welfare approaches need reviewing as they are failing to stem the tide.
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Again & again! the same story repeating itself every year. But Jerseys safe “a”??
All the local “thickies” come out to give anyone thats not from over “yer” a good battering.
So whats the “Life enriching” thing about living in a largely racist fascist dictatorship where you walk the streets even in daylight hours & get intimidating looks from the chavs sitting alfresco
getting intoxicated out of there heads.
Its only a matter of time before someone gets fataly injured but nobody cares to act to prevent this in the meantime.
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You need a license to have a dog… anyone can have kids, doesn’t mean your a good parent. The parents should be ashamed of what they have brought up… trouble is no doubt they’ll defend their little “angels”.
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Simon Crowcroft was “sickened and disgusted”?
Yet with terminologies like “probation”,”rehabilitation” we are on the verge of classifying these animals as victims.
Can he not see the need to clamp down? It it were a close relative of his who almost lost an eye, would the sentence have been more proportional to the gravity of this crime?
Now, why don’t we name these people and have them live with the shame of this crime every time they step out the door. Would this not deter some of their peers from repeating these acts in the knowledge that full immunity and anonymity will be offered by the Jersey Judicial system???
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Calling criminals “chavs” does little to promote acceptance; isn’t that part of the problem here? Don’t contribute to it!
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I am so disgusted by this attack- it is beyond belief . Ultimately though, i believe that the parents of these delinquent girls shoulder a lot of the responsibility as well, because i think that these girls would never had thought to do such an awful thing if they had been brought up properly. They must be held to account as well.
I really do feel for those poor French students and their families. What must they be thinking of this Island? Maybe the States though Tourism can offer some compensation to them ?
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Natives of jersey attack cultured french girls,nice advert eh.make them pick litter up in town humiliate them,
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My views echo many of those already posted.
“Probation£ and being “bound over”, big deal. The reason that these chavs act like they do is that they know that they will get away with it.
Until the Police and The Courts are able to deal with these louts in the way that is deserved, it will just keep on happening. If they are big enough and old enough to behave like animals, then they are big enough and old enough to be punished in a fitting manner.
Name, shame and punish these chavs!!
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An utter disgrace the UK trends are coming here. I feel that the parents of these children should also be formally interviewed by social services as clearly things are very wrong at home.
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What on earth was the magistrate thinking of? Surely the lunatics have taken over the asylum – maybe this is that too politically incorrect to be published?
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This will get worse, the reduction in social standards will continue as long as you elect imcompetant politicians who hire incompetant civil servants.
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I hope the perants of these young thugs are made to pay compensation to the french students. How trumatised they must be, £600 is not enough to relieve them from their ordeal. Their summer has been ruined and their view of Jersey has been damaged beyond repair. These thugs need community service, make them clean the area of Havre-des-pas from 6pm to 10pm each evening for a month. Show them how to respect people and their surroundings.
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36 – GTR
thanks for taking the mick out of the Jersey accent and trying to implying it’s true Jersey people who did this. Two points:
1) Us old crapauds have no issue at all with French – that’s the english who historically dislike them. If you want to make this a race issue then consider the fact that the kids that did this are far more likely to be the spawn of outsiders than long-established Jersey people. Simply a matter of numbers, we’re by far in the minority now.
2) Going “a” and “over yer” is basically the same as me making a parody of other accents heard here = “och aye jimmy” or “nao comprendez” springs to mind. Do you think that’s offensive? I would have thought most people do, so please don’t laugh at the true local accent if you can’t take it being done to yours.
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RL (32) agree I,ve said it before,they copy all these bad laws from EU,never any of the goods ones.pick and choose what law they wan,t to use and they think we should all be grateful.
Unless something drastic is done things will get a lot worse.
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Just a couple of years ago I wrote to the JEP after a similar incident had happened on Jesey, stating that if the Jersey authorities didn’t clamp down hard on these anti-social scum, adopt a zero-tolerence approach and use custodial sentencing, then Jersey will go the same way as the UK and have gangs of youths roaming the streets – apparently untouchable – and “no-go zones” will appear very quickly where normal, decent people will not want to venture to or through. Welcome to the UK.
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Cracking down and “no tolerance” will never work as well as creating the right infrastructure and the right environment. Just as saddening reading these views as hearing of what has happened. As soon as we call these young perpetrators ‘animals’ we have lost the fight. Everybody is a victim in a situation like this – of a system or situation that has clearly not worked for everybody.
PS. I can remember growing up in Jersey and it seems Jersey has a long standing culture of aggression/etc. What are the roots of this problem? How are our values and ideals creating young people who may go on to do such things?
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50
It’s your warped views that contribute very highly to the problem.
By feeling sorry for the offender because “everybody is a victim” is absolutely ridiculous.
There are a hell of a lot more people in worse environments than Jersey residents who grow up to lead good lives and are assets to their community….NOT these people!!
STOP feeling sorry for them and START punishing them…..they are laughing at your extremely liberal and pandering views because they can get away with whatever they want.
Personally, I feel that people like you should be given the task to “rehabilitate” them and see how you fare!
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Jersey has been a pretty rough place for quite some time now. A lot of people just aren’t fit to have children but there’s not a lot we can do about it.
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u can t slap your kid that will u go arrested
u can t teach them anything that it s agains t the law of jersey
u can t teach them some manners that the next day they complain the the teachers.
this is a terrible island to bring up kids
also what else is to do in the island for the kids. everything is so expensive and really so boring no wonder they get to act like that.
and were do they get the booze? lots of them in the street with alcohol, how come thats possible on a regular basis
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47-Tobias.
Every year the French,Swedish,German or any other student thats not from over “yer” is intimidated or bashed by the uneducated “thickies”.
“Am i” implying that its local kids? Well check the back catalogue of assaults against students and try to tell me that its not the local “noddys” carrying out most of these attacks.
Go back to France! What does that sound like?
When i was a youth twenty years ago i mixed with the Swedish & Norweigen students & found them very well educated. Similarly i kept company with French students & Portuguese people with which i learned there different culture & point of view.
The only person that made aggravation for the Swedish at that time happened to be Jersey!!!
Yes! its been going on for years! one wonders if the local kids are “intimidated” by the students who visit who appear light years ahead of this lot.
By the way im from over “yer” so im entitled to observe the gross stupidity that i have witnessed over the years towards outsiders.
I also have no intention of having children over here incase they get afflicted with the big “attitude” & nastiness that has infected the majority in society.
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Dear BS Deluxe…
I do have experience working with young people, both in areas as wealthy as Jersey and in areas of relative/comparitive poverty, which is why I can (and must) look at this objectively and constructively – rather than just cry out ‘the beasts’. I am feeling sorry for the system, and I am not pandering to anyone.
What do you mean by ‘worse environment’? The fact that Jersey may have a certain degree of wealth does not mean that certain unfortunate values and attitudes that lead to such behaviour do not exist – making this the ‘worse’ environment. And that is what needs looking at. Why.
It is exactly through working with such individuals that you learn to see things with a more compassionate and level headed manner.
It’s hard work back from here but it is possible, and things have to be done to change these attitudes in Jersey as soon as possible.
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I too am thoroughly disgusted at the sentences given to the vicious little thugs. ‘Sentence’ being correct…..it is only words after all. Not punishment. I have a suspicion that this vile band of cowards were on the periphery of the other incident in town where the young chap was attacked at Snow Hill… for which their other gang members received ridiculous ‘punishments’.
They WILL kill someone before too long.
The birch may not be implemented at present, but I believe that the punishment has not actually been rescinded…..so can be given out.
Surely one of our highly paid Magistrates will have the guts to do their part in deterring these thugs.Go on, I dare you.Use the law to protect decent people.
Apologise to their victims too. The vile pieces of work keep getting bound over to re-offend time after time.
Name them Let us see them. It won’t shame them as they don’t give two hoots. But at least there’s a chance it may protect their potential victims for a change.
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47. Tobias:
If they are born in Jersey, they are Jersey/local. Granted maybe not your pure blood line St Ouen 500 year old generation family, but Jersey born and raised none the less.
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Mmm-interesting points being made above with the common denominator being that by far the majority feel the punishment here does not appear to fit the crime.On this I agree. What is more difficult is to understand what the causes are for minors in this Island exhibiting such disgraceful behaviour?Again difficult to isolate if we do not know the identity or the background of the perpetrators involved? (Are they indeed true “local” stock, or are they youngsters who have moved here from elsewhere who may have grown up against a background of different values which are now imported here?) Then there is the question of if they are minors and therefore not legally responsible should they be blacked for life by being named and shamed, in these days of computer records when a black mark on your record lasts a lifetime, regardless of legislation such as the Statute of Limitations laying down specific periods for the retention of such information?(And presumably the instances where the nature of the offence is so severe that those limits need to be ignored?)Suddenly this is not as simple as it first appeared.If the punishment in this case had been a custodial sentence then had it been served would the individual’s record have been cleared on release as they would have “Paid their debt” (I don’t think so)
Now lets look at the punishment from the victims viewpoint:-
1)Is a fine of £600 sufficient? Well let’s try an estimate, there’s:-
a)Shock: which can recurr at any future time
with unquantifiable behavioural changes?
b)I cannot believe £600 covers the lost
expense of the course that these two
victims were forced to cut short?
c)Then there are the future medical
problems associated with the very
real injuries these victims sustained?
On this basis alone I would probably estimate a minimum of £5000 apiece is nearer the mark.
d) Then there is the question of who is
actually paying this fine? (If it is
the parents, then I suggest £5000
apiece would certainly make them
take their legal responsibility a
little more seriously, and wake up
some of the other parents who do not
know what their children under 18 are
up to 24/7? Now what % of parents fall
into that category do you think?)
2)Then there’s probation? The very fact that two levels of probation have been considered necessary suggests the Court sees these perpetrators in two categories: leaders and followers?
a) Just what does this probation entail?
b) Who administers it?
c) Does it in anyway inconvenience the
guilty party? (I would hope this is
a basic requirement?)
There is no doubt from the comments above that the majority feel that this procedure is no inconvenience at all! If so WHY? Certainly if I were a victim in this case I would want to know the answers to these questions.
So what is the cause of this behaviour? Is it indigenous or is it imported? I suspect this is secondary given the influence of the internet, computer games, films and television on a latchkey generation of youngsters whose parents are probably either out working all hours to try and keep pace with the ever increasing demands (Real and /or aspirational)placed on them by our consumer based society, or have themselves become victims of that system (Drink/Drugs/Mental or physical health breakdown).Either way something is leading these minors to congregate outside the “Home” environment (If indeed they have known what that is?) with no resources and little on offer that does not take money, to challenge their latent ability or provide an outlet for their boundless energy.To cap it all they see their more fortunate contemporaries sporting all the trappings of what all advertising media and indeed any role models they might have (e.g.SuperModels/Professional Sports persons/ winners of “Big Brother”)seem to regard as necessary to demonstrate success!When they come up against the unknown or someone obviously in a better position than they are their reaction is also governed by these same behavioural sources.
Short of analysing all these possibilities I am afraid the one basic lesson these individuals have to learn is life is not always fair,to survive in a social environment (A basic life requirement, as in a pack of wolves etc)certain basic rules of behaviour apply and going outside those rules brings repercussions that are not pleasant.Indeed to be a true rebel you need to be very very comitted to your chosen cause.
That being said maybe the leniency (or apparent leniency) of the punishment in this case maybe more to do with the outside political influences which came into play when the States were suddenly faced with a UK Government threatening to drag us into Europe without a say or a vote, and subsequently having to choose between adopting the common agricultural policy and / or the Social chapter legislation.
As we cannot bring back public birching in the Royal Square, a very good deterrent in it’s day, maybe the idea of the modern version of the chaingang would be a better option?
I must say I favour the latter as an obvious and effective deterrent punishment, but then am I right? Should I not trust the judgement of the Magistrate, who must have access as a professional to all the relevant background informationon on these sad individuals that we the general public do not? That is the big question? Maybe we are in a better position if we all just made an effort to provide these youngsters with a cost free environment such as a youth centre under professional management as an alternative place to go where their energies can be directed more constructively, and their social skills and self esteem raised accordingly? I suspect that the latter is in the majority of cases the real answer.
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i love jersy. but to hear this !!
might aswell stay at home in birmingham
i come to jersey to get away from this!!!
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RL & Bella;
what has the EU got to do with all of this? Human Rights legislation does not come from the EU or the European Court of Justice which is an EU institution and deals with the size of your banana and how bent your cucumber can be, not human rights legislation!
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It is time the Police and the States address the anti social behaviour in Roseville Street and Havre du Pas every Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday – Responsibility and accountibility has to pass to them because the individuals who act in such a yobbish and threatening way are not capable of being responsible themselves.
Will it take a death of an individual before the problem is resolved – at the moment the area is rapidly becoming a no go area -
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‘Jersey will go the same way as the UK and have gangs of youths roaming the streets – apparently untouchable – and “no-go zones” will appear very quickly where normal, decent people will not want to venture to or through. Welcome to the UK.’
Don’t tar the whole UK with the same brush. There are plenty of safe places in the UK where gangs don’t roam the streets and the children have great respect for others. The media have a habit of creating mass hysteria and in reality it is mainly in pockets of towns and cities where this happens – usually brought about by poverty.
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I’m a teenager and I want corporal punishment brought back. It’s shameful that people of my age can be so arrogant and shockingly violent. Also, why aren’t the parents being punished? Why do the parents not care? Surely we need to look at the apathy surrounding parenthood and not allow children everything they want. So many children on this island are spoiled and have life far too easy and it needs to change.
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Naming and shaming is a very powerful tool, much more powerful than some probation, which to these people probably feels as good as exoneration.
Given the comments in here each time there is an attack people are rightly outraged but it feels as though it falls on deaf ears. Perhaps we need to contact states members directly as well as the JEP in oder to bring change to how these cases are dealt with.
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after causing thousands of pounds worth of damage to property at la moye the courts only bound the boys over for six months. Isee them everyday and they laugh at the courts sentence
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According to the English news today, parents of ‘disruptive’ children will soon be forced to attend parenting classes, followed by a £1000 fine if they still fail to keep their brats in line. As Jersey glibly follows many of the English laws, this will be one thing that I for one would welcome us following.
I doubt that the parents of the filth that did this cowardly assualt ever read the news(or even read at all) but if they do they’ll be getting very worried right about now
Time for the chavs to start doing something about their little welfare tickets that are now running riot
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GTR 36. I don’t think you should use the term ‘local thickies’, that in itself is racist.
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If the cap fits!!!:Local thickies could apply to anyone local if they are born here.
Try to see out of the box.
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Accountability.. for the parents and the children who must be dealt with very severely by the authorities. There is no room in our society for this sickening behaviour.
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Boris(60)It has everything to do with the EU.they bring out these laws without much thought of the consequences they create.Although uk is not a full member they have to abide by these strict rules.the crooked banana law is to be recinded as this was just one stupid law,with the destoying of perfectly good food.
loads of other laws are being created all the time,with us losing freedoms and liberties that our forefathers fought for.
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On the BBC local website this morning two teenagers have been arrested for an assult in St Brelade.
The years of cuddly treatment of these thugs is paying off. The parents need to be fined and have their benefits cut back to make them control the monsters they have created.
Agree totally with 66 – I would imagine most of these thugs are ‘welfare tickets’ Well said
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As far as naming and shaming these things are concerned (i’m going to stick with ‘things’ because to class them as he/she implies they’re humane), we have to put them under the umbrella of the law and (as much as i disagree with it) keep them confidential, much like the most recent toddler murderer in the UK.
As far as the punishment goes, the blame lies solely with the things. The parents may well be partially responsible for not maintaining knowledge of their childs whereabouts but at the end of the day, they weren’t the ones who mercilessly attacked two students for no apparent reason.
I agree with higher fines, and if they can’t pay it, do what we do with all other people who show up at the magistrates unable to pay fines…jail time. And film it. Forget Big Brother, that’s reality TV i’d quite happily watch. Either that or stick them on a UK housing estate and watch them get torn apart.
My views may sound narrow minded, and in terms of the last paragraph, yeah, they probably are, but that’s only because i’m getting so sick and tired of these little….things getting away with everything night and day.
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What these young criminals need is a curfew and if they’re caught out after say 8pm then they do get locked up. They should also be made to do some kind of work eg picking up litter, cleaning chewing gum off pavements etc to work off the fine (which was nowhere near enough)- that might stop them laughing about their sentences.
Come on Ian Le Marquand, there was a lot of talk from you at the hustings about increasinig the magistrates’ powers – so far it’s all been hot air and no action! I don’t recall having read one word from the Senator on how he proposes to tackle this growing problem.
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once again chav culture these gangs get away with it and they know they will, nothing is ever done to clamp down on these young thugs
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Thank you Mike (comment 62) I get so annoyed when people assume the entire UK is full of crime and not safe for decent people.Having moved to England from Jersey three years ago (and being slightly nervous as to whether it was the right decision)I have discovered a warm and welcoming community who have the values that most people in Jersey had many years ago.It is safe and friendly and the worst “crime” committed by a young person over the time I have been here was to paint a smiley face on our bus shelter!Disgraceful I know!!
Sadly Jersey is turning more in to an inner city type place.Each time I visit I am slightly more appalled at the behaviour of both youngsters and adults(not all of course!)and I scuttle back to my rural corner of England quite relieved to be out of it.If it were not for family and friends being there I wouldn’t return.
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I wonder how many of the “we need to do something ” above, will actually do something. Like joining the Honorary police and donating a few hours at the weekend to help control these louts.
If your not part of the solution your part of the problem.
The link below may be of use to those who are not just hot air.
http://www.jerseyhonorarypolice.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=15&MMN_position=8:8
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I too, although locally born, have lived in the UK on the Surrey/Hampshire border(Julie 75)and our local small shopping complex on the edge of a council estate that had in the 1960′s been used to rehouse former inner London tenants suddenly started getting large groups of out of control “Tweenies” (9-16 age group)collecting around the local 24hr shop and the “Fish and Chip”shop. Their behaviour was apalling and they frightened the general public and in particular the young Chinese owners of the Chippy so much with their attacks on their shop that they closed the business and moved away.When I investigated the reason I discovered that the situation got worse during school and public holidays, and that a lady who had previously run a social club on the estate for these children had been denied funding in local Government cutbacks and had had to close the facility down! We campaigned and got it reopened. Result, no children hanging around all day with nowhere to go, no money, nothing to do, and in alot of cases nothing to eat except what could be shoplifted. Just an example from real life of a problem, that is not exclusive to either UK or Jersey, being solved.I personally do not believe as a society we should give up on any section of the community, particularly the young, neither am I so soft do I discount appropriate punishment when due.
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all you dramatic writers have gotta chill out, fair enough what they did is out of order but people on here are talking as if their generation were a bunch of saints. violence has always been, and always will be, a part of any society no matter how law abiding it may depict itsef (or kid itself) as being.
The old adage that kids dont have enough to do might be a cliche but it is very much true. a lack of activities causes boredom and frustration so kids look for their kicks elsewhere. I’m not defending the girls but people have gotta open their eyes to the wider picture.
spend some of that 44 mill on the kids!!
And remember it is you lot of the old generation that created this society so deal with it!
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I live in North London although i did spend over 16 years in Jersey. Since i I have never seen this kind of
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63. Sophie – Your lust for corporal punishment shows that you couldn’t possibly be anything other then a teenager (or at least an adult with the same mental capacity)
As someone that is half French and (despite the other half of me being British) has actually had people be racist to me before because of it, I think the best way to get at these bigots is to take away every Friday and Saturday for the next 6 months and make them pick up litter whilst having the victims watch and laugh.
They should then have to spend every Sunday in extra French lessons. That way next time theres a problem they can just communicate verbally instead of physically.
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I’m trying my best to move my family over to Jersey. I was there 12 years ago and the island worked well. Hardly any crime. Unfortunately I think it will be a move to Guernsey. I was lookig at my map during my visit to Guernsey last week, trying to find a pub and bus stop, in that order. Suddenly, a school kid on a push bike slams his breaks on and skids to a stop…..”would you like some help?”" Amazing, and in the process holds up the two cars behind him. They smile and all was well. The visit continued in a similar vein. WAKE UP YOU STUPID PEOPLE….YOU NEED DETERRENTS. That’s all. I’m afraid Jersey has turned into England.
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PJG
“If your not part of the solution your part of the problem.”
That has got to be the most ridiculous saying ever!
Are you saying because some people do not solve the problems within society themselves(which the government is mostly responsible for doing otherwise what do we pay our taxes for and why have one?) then we are as bad as those that actually are a problem. Ridiculous!!
Besides why would anyone want to join an honorary police force to “control these louts” when there is no punishment to deter them from acting the way they do? It seems a pointless waste of time to me.
What is your response to an unruly lout? “run along before we tell your parents”? “stop doing that because we don’t like it”?
Perhaps if the law did get tougher and law enforcement officers were given more powers to arrest together with harsher punishments then there would not be much requirement for all the honorary police to control them because we would actually have a deterrent….and as a result less bad behaviour to control!
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Where is the Govt. initiative to rebuild relations with the French…? these little hooligans should be forced to apologise and make proper restitution,the damage to the island from this is grave,for years our real treasure has been ,natural scenery,beaches,and the quaint way of life that outsiders are currently happy to abandon or destroy,come on Jersey,you know your strengths and weaknesses,let’s get it right or we will become just another scummy town.
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Too many Rights:
To let your kids run loose without any reprocussions for their actions; to have as many kids by as many fathers as you choose; to be housed, to receive benefits for all sorts of things because they don’t (want to) work. Not enough respossibilities: To teach your kids right from wrong; to (dare I say it) discipline them, to respect other people.
Name & shame the Magistrates and bleeding heart liberal politicians. It’s time our politicians started being representative. Read these threads!!
Write to your Senator and tell them they won’t get your vote next time round unless they take a hard line on youth crime.
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i have read with interest all the comments and I reiterate my earlier comment it is time the States and the Police address the problem – whether it is by police walking the beat at 3am or more investment in youth activities – action must be taken. Last Friday night the shop in Roseville Street had its shutters ripped off. Just last night teenagers were running and swearing and fighting up and down Roseville Street and surrounding streets at 2:30am.
Of course there was a time in the world when the media would take up such an issue – Unfortunately the JEP obviously do not think it is a news worthy cause to focus on the issue on their front pages.
Whilst tourism may not be the the largest contributor to GDP for Jersey – with a weakening pound against the Euro – Jersey has an opportunity to bring the tourists in – does Jersey wish visitors image of Jersey to be the loutish behaviour which is now regarded as common place on Jersey Streets.
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PJG – This is not a recruitment drive for the honorary police, who if truth be told are more interested in checking vehicles and hedgerows than dealing with 21st century crime. Your post hasn’t worked and I wonder how your superiors feel about you posting that link?
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Mm more interesting comments and although I stand by my original assertion that a longterm solution to the local element of this problem is to provide “Tweenies” with somewhere to go that does not take money, but provides facilities they can use under proper but not intrusive supervision and guidance.
I do also see the need for some firm action by the authorities that gives an experience that would give these juvenile delinquents a short sharp lesson in how to behave.
To start Nellie Macon has some good ideas,but I think a curfew only works if “Home” (in the sense you and I think of it Nellie) is the right place for that juvenile to be, if it exists at all?
Certainly there is alot to be said for the instant cure i.e. you caused this mess, damage etc so here is a bucket and mop, paint, shovel etc and here is a large and extremely fit police officer with specialist training who is going to make sure you put it straight (and any other little unpleasant jobs), and will make sure you don’t get any downtime until you have,to his satisfaction or that of the youth court in terms of time allocated to your case in the form of a sentance.
And let’s stop making this a nationality thing, every society has these problems and they increase in proportion to population density, which is why they are most apparent in large towns and cities(e.g. how many youngsters were fatally stabbed in London and other UK cities in the last 12 months? And what about the North African community in Paris?)
What is definate is that there needs to be action now to set up a constructive solution here in Jersey.As for tourists being put off the Island that is to be avoided, however the behaviour of some in that category particularly teenagers (These days up to 30 years of age!)can also leave alot to be desired.Sadly particularly the Brits, some of whom don’t seem to be able to handle drink very well.If you doubt that remark then you obviously haven’t been to some Spanish and Caribbean resorts in the recent past.
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PJG, I have to also disagree with the statement that if you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem. This is your island and clearly what the people of this island want is punishment that fits the crime, YET the politicians which you voted in and who are meant to represent and serve you seem to completely ignore this. THEY are the problem, they are not even trying to implement the solution that the people want.
The parents may not have committed the crime, but the parents failed to instill a sense of the value of life in their kids and are very much to blame in my eyes. No matter how much someone angered me there are boundaries I simply cannot cross because of values instilled in me at a young age by my parents. Also, having a good relationship with my parents I could not bear to do anything that would make them feel disgust for me, obviously these kids don’t care what their parents think of them. The parents need to have some form of punishment, they have failed in their duty to raise and care for their children. And it is THEIR duty and THEIR duty alone.
Can someone please find a method of sterilisation that can be given to people that commit crimes like this and can be reversed only once they complete a suitable punishment AND prove that they can an asset to society?
As for the namby pamby chat again, I am very aware that there are kids for whom punishment alone is not the answer, but even they can usually understand that there needs to be punishment (as well as other methods). The number of kids who can use their background as an excuse is limited because many kids with atrocious backgrounds still have a very strong sense of right and wrong.
The problem will get worse because of a lack of punishment, only once that issue is sorted can we start adding in the namby pamby chat.
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78: Yes, you’re right. Violence has always been a part of society.
However, as far as i’m aware, never has there been an example of a group of 12-14 year old girls following two tourists from Havre Des Pas to town, phoning their mates to come and join in.
I don’t think anyone on this forum is claiming that their generation were saints, anyone who’d suggest that is incredibly naive. I think the whole point of shock and disgust here is the age of the people involved in this.
In terms of spending money on youth culture, I agree with you entirely, but at the end of the day, will the States ever actually turn around and spend a significant amount of time in the Chambers debating it?
That being said, there’s alot we (As members of the public) don’t know about the ins and outs of the States and the way they work, so maybe there’s a perfectly good reason why the money is not being spent on youth culture. Maybe there isn’t.
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BS Deluxe
Please note the word “part” It does not mean “as bad as those that actually are the problem” I am sad that you have interpreted the saying so ridiculously !
If all you want to do is sit on your backside and watch while our community is declining into a cesspit, that’s OK by me, just stop whinging about it.
So you think paying your taxes makes you a contributor to the safety and wellbeing of our island. I would only agree if you said “in part”. You really do need to wake up, there is more to a community than taxes, there would soon be an outcry if our taxes took a hike to pay for all the police necessary to shadow these minority groups of hooligans which is what is needed to stop incidents like this happening in the first place.
What could you do if you were an Honorary policeman.
Firstly you would be trained in how to intervene at an early stage and actually stop incidents such as this happening in the first place. I think that’s what we want isn’t it?
“run along before we tell your parents, stop doing that because we don’t like it”
You may jest but sometimes that “works”. Their faces are a sight to behold when their ashamed parents are summoned to the police station to collect them.
Just sitting down and talking with groups of youngsters can sometimes get the message across without having to use the powers of detention or arrest.
From your last paragraph appear to think the police, (SOJ and Hons) do not have enough powers to stop these hooligans, They do, both have powers of arrest when laws are being broken. Usually a “move on” is enough to disarm a crowd who are just about to boil over, but attitudes do change when the handcuffs come out. But a policeman must be there at the time to prevent assaults such as this.
The vast majority of our islands youth we can be proud of. Its this hard core minority who are committing the crimes we need to stop. The States of Jersey Police force cannot be everywhere all the time, The Honorary Police can and do play a part in attempting to increase a police presence in areas known as hot spots.
The more volunteers the more places that presence can be felt.
Are our punishments a deterrent is a separate argument. But if you think they are not, as an Honorary Policeman you would be attending meetings where your opinion can be heard and possibly acted upon.
BS Deluxe, you obviously care, why not donate a few hours a week on top of your taxes, make the island a better place.
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Leah Holmes
Its all our problem.
When people stop blaming someone else we may get somewhere.
Lets stop this wishful thinking of non human rights compliant punishments. No matter how much posters on this site (me included)wish for it.
IT JUST AINT GONNA HAPPEN, IS IT ?
There would be more chance of bringing back hanging than corporal punishment.
The deterrent is being caught, we have to catch them in the first place
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Do we have tagging?
If yes then they should be tagged and with an early curfew and majority of weekends.
At least one parent should be with them during curfew period. Perhaps with that inconveniance the parent will spend time ‘re-educating’ their child and correct their earlier failings in this regard!
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darren
Its a shame your view of the Honorary police is so sour and uninformed (very yesterday).
The link you talk of is in the public domain, and is there for such as you to learn and “hopefully” adjust your prejudices.
What are you going to do to prevent incidents such as this happening this weekend ?
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PJG
if it is the minority then surely it is will be easier for the police to monitor.
There are known hotspots which do not appear to be patrolled – Roseville st and havre Des pas have been mentioned several times.
If it’s the same kids doing it over and over again then where is the deterrent to stop them recommitting?
Frankly, I have better things to do with my spare time. I myself work long hours and I would not ask for someone to come and do my job as an “honorary” (although my boss may like it), so I feel it’s a bit of a cop out (forgive the pun) that the SoJ Police force (the biggest per head of population in Europe) feels the need for more and more law enforcers to help them out. What are they doing themselves, where are they all and how many officers does Jersey REALLY need?
This isn’t a knock on the honoraries themselves (I have learnt to appreciate they do a good job), but I would like to know exactly what the SoJ Police force is actually doing considering it is them we pay to make our streets safe!
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While i condemn the acts of the mindless idiots that carried out this pathetic crime……it seems the blog has also moved on to a ” how bad is Jersey” theme…
It is very easy to say Jersey is getting worse and is not a safe place….but get real people
I grew up in Jersey a “few years” ago and a simliar theme was around in those days…remember the Murrati fights….the trashing of King Street…the Inter School fights….and Town was not safe of a weekend…
And i daresay our children will have be discussing a similiar theme in 20 years time…
I spent 15 years in the UK and returned to Jersey….and now can really appreciate it for what it is…a fantastic place to live and bring up kids…and yes there are a hell of a lot worse places in the UK than Jersey…I feel safe with my kids over here, not something i could hand in heary say entirely in the UK….
So yes this was a disgusting act…but is Jersey that really a bad place…I think not and i feel proud to call it my home and am grateful I live here… (even if it is expensive )
I do feel though that the simple presence of our local Police Force would eradicate a lot of the trouble – we all know the hot spots and these are normally associated with the lack of Police presence…prehaps if our our local finest ( and i use that in the loosest term) where less focused on catching motorists speeding at 2mph above the speed limit, or arresting local politicians for speaking their minds.)..and more focused on controlling the local hotspots…then we would not be in the position we are today…
But to the people that slag Jersey off…please go and live somewhere else for a few years…then come back to our lovely Island to appreciate it really is a wonderful place….and somewhere you can be proud to call home…..
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PJG, I agree it’s ALL our problem, after all its our taxes that paid for the trial of this group of s**m. But everyone, (Police included) is limited in what they can do when the law fails to hand out any punishments. As it turns out I can’t be an honorary for health reasons, so what do you suggest I do to play my part now? The two biggest problems are the way the kids are being raised, followed by the law being so pathetic and unwilling to punish crime, dealing with these issues must be the priority.
I am not for corporal punishment at all. I could not physically hurt someone unless defending myself so I would never ask someone else to do it. What I am for is people who commit crimes being punished and made to suffer in some way. We have no assurance that these kids are actually being made to suffer at all, and 6 kids £100 each? Give over, they probably spend more on booze and sweets in a month. If their parents pay the fine then that could be it for all we know, parents might not even restrict their privileges at home.
I am for harsher punishment because the alternative is vigilantism. And of course because it provides a deterrent to future little crims. The BNP have made inroads in the UK NOT because people are more racist than before, but because the Government has gone soooooooo far the other way and have started mollycoddling and paying compensation to proven terrorists, even using taxpayers money to provide protection for them. As long as you have one extreme (complete lack of punishment) you will slowly bring about the other extreme (unlawful punishments).
And these ‘kids’ do need to be named. We have a right to know who we and our children should steer clear of, since no-one has had the decency to even put them under house arrest. Also, they may worry for their own safety and their own life (as I’m sure their victims did) and frankly they should experience that kind of fear and know that they brought it entirely upon themselves. How else will they learn that actions have consequences?
I would also suggest it is clear that the kids’ parents have failed them and the kids should be put up for adoption. I would add that these kids must not be allowed to breed until they have proven that they can contribute to society.
The victims in this case were 18, they may well be physically bigger and stronger than many other older members of the public. No surprise that people choose to carry knives really is it?
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To Jay (95) I don’t think people are in general “slagging off” Jersey but are simply disappointed and concerned with the decline in behaviour.I too grew up in Jersey and remained there until my forties and as you say there was always an element of trouble but it wasn’t as threatening and unpleasant as it is nowadays.Some of these kids are way out of line and nothing appears to be done about it.
I repeat what I said in my comment 75 and cannot agree that living away from Jersey for a few years makes you appreciate it more.I can say the opposite for certain.Each to their own!
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95: As a former university student who went to Essex before moving on to UCL, I could not agree with you more.
I mean, none of the areas I lived in were as bad as people made out, but certainly I would feel perfectly comfortable walking through St Helier of an evening without the fear of being bothered.
Obviously there are going to be areas of the island that will be gathering points for youngsters, but I fear that if the police were to police certain areas, they would simply move on.
Example in my experience: In greenstead (in colchester, 3rd largest housing estate in europe) there were a well known group of youths that would gather in certain areas over the weekend. Mosquito alarms were installed outside the shopping precincts, and police regularly checked on the playgrounds…so they just moved around the backpaths in the estates, making them far more unpredictable and terrifying.
These people that cause so much trouble are not going to go away, so obviously we have to find something to preoccupy them that will not cause issues with other people.
That still doesn’t change the fact that the little ****s should be punished severely. Make an example of them, PLEASE!
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Leah Holms
I am sorry to hear you are ineligible for the Honorary police due to health reasons. From your posts I think you could have been an asset.
Police being short of manpower is a reason why they tend to be more reactive to youth crime than proactive.Especialy on a Friday and Saturday night when the big kids (drunken adults) come out to play.
Being proactive is something we can all help with. Assisting at youth organisations is one, a couple of hours showing some kids how to do your favourite sport (do you skateboard ?) or pastime (language skills )at the weekend may stop this “I am bored ” attitude.
I agree punishment should fit the crime, but our legal system ,quite rightly is there for justice, not revenge. Penalties start low for first offences and then ramp up for subsequent convictions ( this can include incarceration). Some say what about the human rights of the victim, I agree, but that does not mean we should lower our standards to theirs. We have human rights compliant deterrents, are we using them to best effect. Maybe this is something we could be lobbying for ?
I am not a bleeding heart, but I think the community can and should help stop this sort of incident before it starts.
Voluntary work can pay a large part in this. So when I say
If your not part of the solution your part of the problem
Think, your inaction may be part of the problem, can you donate a couple of hours a week doing something that is part of the solution ?
BS Deluxe, a couple of hours ?
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PJG – It is not MY responsibility to prevent incidents such as this happening this weekend. I am a law abiding citizen who will be abiding by the law in whatever I do.
You’re the honorary aren’t you? So get out there and do your job and stop having a go at others who aren’t really the problem.
Just because somebody doesn’t have the time nor the inclination to be a hobby bobby doesn’t make them a bad person.
You really are a bad advert for the honorary police force with your lack of tact and diplomacy.
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darren
You have the problem in your statement.
“It is not MY responsibility” (a cop out(,( pun not intended ).
You really are “a bad advert for” a responsible member of the community.
Ref 3
not even “for the safety of your children” ?
Perhaps you could spend a couple of hours of your leisure time giving lessons in tact and diplomacy.
My apologies for not acting like the honorary policeman of your antiquated stereotype.
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PJG – I volunteer for a local charity, I give to my community. I teach my own and other children decent values, I’m a hard working and law abiding citizen.
How dare you respond in such a way when you know nothing about me?
YOU have volunteered to police this island, it is YOUR responsibility to do EXACTLY that.
I maintain that YOU are doing a terrible recruitment job in this thread alone. Calm down and think before you respond in such a self important manner.
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Darren
At no time have I said I am or was a serving honorary policeman (check back)I may or may not be, my original post on this thread said “do something LIKE joining the Honorary police, it is YOU who has jumped to a conclusion.
I am pleased to hear of your voluntary work, see, you are part of the solution.
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PJG – Your words ‘Their faces are a sight to behold when their ashamed parents are summoned to the police station to collect them’
This insight can only come from experience so thats why I ‘jumped’ to my conclusion that you are an honorary. Was I wrong?
Please do not patronise me, thankyou.
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This is not about the Honorary Police force who do valuable work, it is about dealing with the causes of teenage violence and feral groups of out of control youngsters running riot in our streets! There is absolutely no doubt that Havre des Pas, and further along towards Green Island has a problem. It’s not Rocket Science it is about the Uniformed Police taking a firm (But fair) line and putting in a presence in certain areas at certain times of the day and night. It’s not difficult to identify those areas, the noise alone makes it pretty easy on the occasions action is necessary.If it’s drugs or substance abuse, identifying the source should not be difficult, if it’s drink the same applies.
We as a society do however need to deal with the poverty factor that means there is nowhere for these youngsters to meet in a moderately controlled social environment that does not require money. I am aware that there are exceptions to all generalisations and that lack of money does not necessarily mean lack of application or social skill, but teenage years are difficult years even when there are resources, and today there are so many information sources bombarding youngsters that those without social guidance at “Home?” should not be pilloried if the guidance they choose to follow is anarchical.How many computer games are based on violence?How many Hollywood Stars have got up and walked away after totalling a car and destroying half a city in the prior chase? How many pop videos idolise rap stars with violent criminal backgrounds? How many of their songs lionise violence in their lyrics? You could even criticise West Side Story for it’s street gang based storyline.Prehaps these offenders should be made as part of their “Probation” to spend some informative weeks in the accident and emergency department of a big city hospital to see just how dangerous it is to kick someone, to realise that it does not take much “Violent behaviour” to actually kill somebody, that it is not a case of the victim just getting up and walking away, and most of all it is not always possible for the doctors to repair injuries.
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This case is absoulutely appaling and a very poor ‘advert’ for Jersey.
Last month, I was sitting outside a cafe in Dinan and on the next table were a group of 8 French students enjoying a coffee while engaging in some lively chat, and exchanging greetings with older members of the community who knew them as they passed through the town.
The thought that such students could be attacked by ‘animals’ roaming around St Helier is terrible.
Thouse who committed this crime should be named and shamed, and if the law needs updating, do it.
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Some of the childish bickering on here resembles the worst case playground scenaio.
She said this,and he said that!”hardly” an example of mature adults taking part in a serious debate which after all concerns the seriousness of students being attacked or anyone else for that matter.
I for one would welcome a greater visual police prescence to deter potential “thugs” from carrying out any attacks on any individuals.
A home cannot be considered such if one dosent feel safe in there surroundings.
Also surely the point of a police force is the security in them being phsically visible so we can walk round without fear as many now do.
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Unfortunately Jersey is not as safe as it once was. When I visit France it reminds me of what Jersey was like 30-40 years ago. No drunken yobbos on the streets intimidating people and the police don’t put up with any nonsense either.
Society needs to get a grip, if parents bring up their children without teaching them right from wrong and don’t give a damn themselves how do you think many of the children will carry on? Yes a few might realise that their parents are bad role models but many will just blindly follow suit because it is “cool” to do so.
As Nick says TV and films and (computer) games also plays their part in brutalising children when they see people being beaten up or killed daily on the screen, some will think this is the normal way to interact with others on the streets.
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Darren
your post 86
“This is not a recruitment drive for the honorary police, who if truth be told are more interested in checking vehicles and hedgerows than dealing with 21st century crime. Your post hasn’t worked and I wonder how your superiors feel about you posting that link?”
This post was not only inflammatory to a lot of hard working people who give a lot of time to their community
but as you are now quoting me from my post 90 shows your evidential time line is in error.
Should you ever join the Honorary police, They will train you how to avoid this type of basic error.
I was not being patronising, I actually meant it. Its a shame you have jumped to a conclusion again.
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Isn’t the reason young people do whatever they want and get away with it nowadays is because they can, and they know it? Teenagers should not be treated as adults – why listen to their opinions of “what they want” to stay out of trouble? What they “want” will boil down to “I want this and if I don’t get it I’ll scream” (or go and vandalise something). Let’s face it – most children are selfish, albeit unknowingly until they mature enough. Clamp down and get them off the streets if they can’t behave – let these kids who think thay’re adults prove it. Until then they should be made to tow the line. By the way – I didn’t have youth clubs, skate parks, whatever when I was a kid (I include my teenage years in that),but I didn’t find the need to roam in gangs errorising and vandalising. Then again the schools had corporal punishment that kept us from pushing too far (as I said earlier all kids are selfish and just think about themselves), and of course I had parents who actually cared, and steered me along a decent path (with the odd smack round the legs if I again pushed too far. stop making excuses for these kids and punish them.
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This island amazes me
Thousands of decent, hard working people are treated like ‘low-lives’ for 11 years, until they eventually get their quallies, and yet these scumbags behave like animals and are seen as proper Jersey residents
Let’s just take quallies away from them and their parents. Hopefully, they’ll see their futures lie elsewhere & will leave
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It would appear that Senator Le Marquand has started the ball rolling (JEP 2nd July). We will have to see whether anything positive actually results.
In the meantime, I would suggest that juvenile offenders such as those under this discussion, together with whatever passes for a parental/adult presence in their respective living accommodation, are summonsed (individually)to their parish hall for an appointment with a centenier and one other honorary officer.
At those meetings every relevant comment on these pages should be the subject of compulsory reading and discussion – with appropriate assistance for the illiterate.
DRIVE THE MESSAGE HOME. A lack of money has absolutely NOTHING to do with the problem. A lack of discipline and repect has EVERYTHING to do with it.
The honorary police are ideally equipped for such an exercise and, perhaps, when the tearaways are eligible to vote (what an utter nonsense for 16-year-olds), the ‘state’ will have made a positive contribution where parental upbringing has so clearly failed.
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At a recent Hustings it appeared that 19 of the 21 condidates for election were oblivous to the fact that anti socual behaviour is on a rapid increase in Jersey over the past 4 years especially among the youth. Parental responsibility is shifted to the “everyone else” is to blame culture that is on the increase. All rights and no repsonsibilites. Benefit cuts for parents who dont attend school meetings, parenting classes etc is the only way to increase parents focus on their children.
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david jones,
i know your youth might be a distant memory but trouble making and misbeahving is part of being kid, you make mistakes and learn from them… not punished so heavily that you resent those that punish you i.e the state. The coroporal punishment you speak so proudly of, in an almost nostalgic sense, is not part of the solution. people such as yourself blame the kids misguided values but it is the society that your generation has created for them that has turned them into these ‘monsters.’
‘why listen to their opinions?’ well that is the back-bone of a democracy david, or i supopse you would prefer to dictate to the kids wat they need and want.. seeing as you seem so intouch with their culture (NOT!)
the society and culture you grew up in is dead, deal with it.
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I do not want to be sucked in to a personal argument with the semi-literate offering from’wake up’(114) but it is a perfect example of the ongoing problem.
David Jones (110) was it would seem, like me, brought up in an environment which had fixed behavioural boundaries set by parents,schools and police (in that order), all of which are absolutely essential for children to mature into an ordered and peaceful society to which they can make a positive contribution.
The final remark by ‘wake up’ is unworthy of any comment whatsoever.
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Visitors to Jersey should be warned as to what may befall them !
Last week, during the moring rush hour, I witnesed a SoJ police officer pull over a UK registered car because the driver was not wearing her seat belt. She was driving at 3 mph !!! Now correct me if I am wrong, but I have yet to hear of a road traffic accident where an un belted driver is ejected from his or her vehicle and injurs an innocent by stander !!! (My understanding is that an unbelted driver who is injured would predujice any claim for damages, and that is why I and my passengers always wear their seat belts)
However, two young french visitors get beaten up by some local low life and the ofenders basically get let off.
Why do our Police have the resources to monitor motorists in such a way but seldom seem to be about when real trouble is occuring?
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116@ Warren J: And, of course, if the police had not stopped this person, you’d have written on here,”I saw a police car behind a woman with no seat belt and they couldn’t be bothered to do anything about it!” the officer was doing his job, and you complain about it, incredible!!
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