Files: ‘Second man’ is named
Wednesday 1st July 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Chief executive Bill Ogley
JERSEY’S top civil servant has told the Chief Minister that he was not involved in the set-up of Operation Blast.
In the States yesterday States chief executive Bill Ogley was unmasked as being the ‘second individual’ named in suspended police chief Graham Power’s memo about the secret police dossiers.
The memo claimed that Mr Ogley and former Chief Minister Frank Walker asked Mr Power to compile files on States Members to prevent anyone with a ‘shady’ past from being nominated to ministerial office.
Mr Walker has denied the claims and, responding to questions from Members, Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur said: ‘I am aware of a document circulated which does name the chief executive. The chief executive has made it quite clear that there is no evidence whatsoever that he has been involved in any way in Operation Blast. I have seen no evidence whatsoever substantiating an allegation that the chief executive officer was involved in the establishment of Operation Blast. Accordingly, I see no reason to suspend the officer concerned.’
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Why go to all the trouble of trying to prevent his name being published last week then,hope that those costs are not being charged as expenses as well.
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As the saying goes “Well they would say that wouldn’t they”…..Time and the truth will out.
So who do you believe..is it Ogley or Power,a polysemy if ever there was one.
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So it’s another “its not me gov.” A matter for the police; but it is the police who did the deed.
Policeman, civil servant or politician; somebody is being very dishonest. Shame on them all.
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Well – he would say that wouldn’t he?
What an absolute farce blocking the JEP from trying to publish his name, when they have been able to after all.
Better call the police in to investigate this!!
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OK maybe Bill was not involved in the Establishment up of operation blast.
Or there is no evidence to support this allegation.
How long ago did he know of the existence of operation blast?
Was he part of the ongoing operation blast?
Bill has given us a carefully structured answer and so has Terry.
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Wouldn’t it be great if Graham Power can produce documentary evidence to corroborate his claim that Frank Walker and Bill Ogley were involved in setting up Operation Blast. If had been the Chief Officer I would have insisted on written instructions. Maybe there are other officers who were present when the ex-First Minister and his Chief Executive instructed the suspended Chief of Police to run Operation Blast…….I can’t imagine Graham Power illustrating the involvement of F.W. and B.O., without some evidence. He was usually a pretty smart ‘cookie’, even if he wasn’t the most popular boss.
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The ridiculous thing is that he tried to stop his name from being revealed last week. The fact is that something of this kind seldom stays secret for long and any States’ memeber has absolute privilege to name someone in these circumstances.
I don’t believe that the States’ Police went off and did this all off their own bat. They must have had fairly serious heavy duty authorisation from somewhere near the top. These were vetting files on people who had not committed any criminal offences and thus are at the limit of or even outside the powers of the Jersey police.
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Is this what the people in Goverment come to? Scandal after scandal? I am sick of these new States members making up rubbish all the time to try and derail the Island. The only people that have broken the law to date are from the left. Now that says it all to me and any other forward thinking person. Get back to politics and running this Island or get out.
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There is a group called Common purpose,who claim to be both a charity and a training company,our civil service has their graduates running through their ranks,the trainings urge graduates to “Lead beyond their authority”for they are in truth a fifth column, in the U.K.people like Cressida Dick are members,you’ll remember her she was responsible for the “shoot to kill” policy that is still in place and was responsible for the assasination of Jean de Menezes on the tube, he was innocent,she was promoted,even higher yesterday, why say this because it is amongst us,go see and read slowly http://www.tpuc.org/node/107 and see the similarities to recent events here that baffle..or http://www.stopcp.com/ this outfit operate under Chatham House rules,this means basically in secret, consider how have our top civil servants been able to exclude ordinary states members from open scrutiny of these meetings and why..? does it feel to you as a citizen that big decisions here seem to be foolish,too big and cut and dried, and why do new jobs always seem to be filled from outside with even more people and their families being parachuted in..? what happened to the commitment to succession planning, no there is this stuff going on that does not stack up..see for yourself or prepare yourself for Tazer stun guns…and that’s just a beginning.
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So no-one authorised the police to set this up – they did it off their own back – a likely tale. Unfortunately I’ll bet all the memos / documents authorising this have now been shredded.
Has the Home Affairs Minister asked to see the file setting this up and can he confirm that he has seen documentary evidence that FW & BO were not involved?
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Has the Home Affairs Minister seen documentary evidence from the Police file setting this up that FW and BO were nto involved? What’s the betting all this paperwork has been shredded?
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As I have stated elsewhere,you are not going to get to the bottom of this by wasting a great deal of badly needed public money on another unproductive witch-hunt! There is a good arguement for having such files as a means of vetting people standing for public office, and for maintaining them properly under an official system to update information on them as a matter of ongoing National Security.However the files should be kept securely by the Home Minister’s office and it should be firmly established by law as to what type of information should be held. At all times the subject of the file should be able to access the information held and be able in a laid down procedure to challenge information held or added that is factually inaccurate or outside the remit of appropriate information. Access to the files by third parties and by persons making additions to them should be placed under the jurisdiction of a panel made up of the Home Minister/a senior officer of Special Branch/and a current States member appointed to scrutinise procedure. Information held should be as simple and straightforward as possible and avoid tittle tattle and heresay.It should concern only matters relating to National Security/current criminal activity/mental state/confirmation that the subject is not a minor.Matters of National Security as a category should be clearly defined as concerning beliefs and actions held or comitted by the subject politically harmful or treasonable in nature.
Such an official system would then render all unofficial files wherever held illegal. Such a system protects the individual subject, and the public.As for these current files nothing will be gained from a witch-hunt except a waste of public money just to have alot of people denying their involvement. Two States members have already seen the files and declared them harmless and they should now be destroyed.
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ZBD
I don’t understand, why would it be great to prove our former CM and BO were liars ?
Surely it would bring shame on us all ?
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I wonder what they all suspected?
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Shouldn’t they be doing something more important like dealing with a recession and job losses?
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A bit of hard questioning should get to the bottom of this.
Nick it isn’t a witch hunt it is about finding the truth about things. I myself doubt that the Chief Of Police just thought up the idea to monitor states members off his own bat.
PJG so what if some people are shown to be liars? The only ones to be shown in a bad light would be those caught lying as far as I am concerned, and what is wrong with that?
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Nick 9 ….I completely agree!! Its a waste of time and money trying to get to the bottom of such a pathetic argument!! I said previously that you can find anything out about anyone these days anyway via internet etc!! I dont see why there is such a huge drama about it all!! Get rid of the files and get on with your jobs! (Not that they do much anyway apart from create brand new arguments about nothing!) Surely there are moreimportant things to discuss other than this!!!
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10.PJG Because the public should be able to trust the word of States members and civil servants, both of which are basically employed by the people. If you were an employer with an employee who categorically lied to you – would you not feel entitled to terminate their employment?
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Nellie/ Adrian
You missunderstand me,
Jersey would be seen a better light if FW, BO, AND GP were proved not to be liars. ZBD has stated “Wouldn’t it be great” If FW and BO were proved to be liars.
I cannot see what would be “great” about that, unless it fulfilled some personal vendeta.
What would be “great” for all of us, would be some evidence that all of our polititians speak the truth all the time (I know, pigs might fly, but I live in hope).
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Our politicians are no more or less honest than the politicians anywhere else.
Our government needs careful observation but not secretly by another part of the government.
All governments have corruption, Jersey is the same as everywhere else and will have some corruption in the government.
We have on one hand a blanket investigation of all of our elected representatives and on the other total denial of any wrongdoing by them.
We have the most investigated least guilty government in the world if you can believe that.
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The very word “Secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society,and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies,to secret oaths and secret proceedings,we decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts outweighed the dangers which are
cited to justify it.Even today,there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating it’s arbitrary restrictions.Even today,there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it.And there is a very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment.That I do not intend to permit to the extent that is in my control.And no official of my administration,whether his rank is high or low,civilian or military,should interpret my words as an excuse to censor the news,to stifle dissent,to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press
and the public the facts they DESERVE to know
John F Kennedy U.S. President ’61-63 assassinated for demanding the truth for his people……You like the way it’s going…?
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Adrian you misunderstand me,my case is that there is about as much chance of getting anyone to admit they set up these files as there is of you rocketing to the moon!Everyone is so convinced that it was a senior figure responsible, how about the theory that they were established as part of the early panic that surrounded that other huge expenditure of public funds the “Abuse Enquiry”?The fact that they contain little in the way of information on their subjects other than easily obtained fact already in the public domaine (A fact independantly confirmed by the two deputies who have viewed them)suggests that maybe they were started for a purpose and then shelved.My point is that nothing will be achieved by wasting yet more expensive time and effort witch hunting whoever was responsible.Such time would be far better spent establishing a formal system of vetting as I have specified above,with full access by the subject party and an established procedure for accessing, adding or removing any information held and the type of information acceptable. Such formal files would then be the only “legal files”, anybody else holding unofficial files is then commiting an illegal act.And yes there are much more important things on which all these publically paid individuals would be far better employed at this time.
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Nick there are ways to find out who is telling the truth and who isn’t. We need to get to the bottom of this and find out who the liars are and treat accordingly.
I am sick and tired of people denying responsibility for things over here. You as well as I know that someone was responsible.
Do you honestly think the police chief decided to do this off his own bat? He has said two others were responsible, well lets find out then. I for one want to know.
Once we know the answer to this question it might then enable other things to be unravelled. You have to start somewhere in all this mess.
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What better way for the power hungry to expand and secure control,than by having dirt on those they would control….it’s always about power … terribly intoxicating historically….
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PJG – I definately don’t have a vendetta against the people allegedly involved in this saga. I totally agree that that what has been disclosed doesn’t do any good for the reputation of the Island.
The point is Ian Le Marquand should have been more circumspect and not disclosed anything about the files until it was totally clear what had transpired.
If holding the files was in breach of the Data Protection Law and Graham Power has evidence of who authorised Operation Blast, it will hopefully lead to someone being brought to book and help deter similar behaviour in the future.
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I don’t disagree with the admirable sentiment that people in public office should not be allowed to avoid responsibility for their actions Adrian, it is just I am concerned that this matter is distracting the attention of everybody away from more pressing issues that have an impact on people’s day to day lives, and is in danger of resulting in yet another “Investigation” costing a great deal of public money to achieve comparatively little except possibly a naming and shaming of a person (Or persons)as yet unknown, who is (are) more than likely to deny responsibility and subsequently be given the “benefit of the doubt”as a result.Far better, and cheaper, to use limited resources now to establish a formal vetting system to prevent this happening again by establishing the legal perameters of what is acceptable by way of recording this type of information. Anyone, or any government department then caught in future retaining any illegal files of this nature, or more importantly anyone asked to prepare such files, can then be in no doubt as to their illegal nature and can therefore be in no doubt of the consequences of not revealing their existance or the fact they have been so instructed.
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Nick people need to know what is going on and who is up to what. Brushing this under the carpet is just letting those in the wrong get away with it as far as I am concerned. This appears to be the main method of operation over here now from what I have seen, or many people at least perceive it as such. I think it is time to make people accountable for their actions, inactions, and deceptions. This is a perfect place to start unravelling the tangled web and may enable us to back track into other areas as well.
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Is this really such a big deal.
Before anyone can get a job in healthcare, working with children and many other roles they must have a full police background check.
Is it unreasonable that when deciding who to nominate as a Minister the Chief Minster might want to know if they had any skeletons that made them unsuitable for high office!
Hypothetically “Would you want a Minister covering Education or Healthcare who had a record of abuse or perhaps been removed from an role due to inappropriate behaviour?”
Of course not but without background checks such information might not be known and such an unsuitable thing could possible happen!
If a member of the States has done nothing materially wrong then they have nothing to worry about.
If they have got skeletons then come clean and let the electroate decide if they are fit to represent them. In that situation they put themselves outside of blackmail as the matter is public record.
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Robert #28
There might be justification in certain jobs for police checks to be made but the point here is that in the circumstances you posit the applicant is aware that the checks will be carried out and therefore has the ability to make an informed choice on whether or not to apply for the post.
In this case no-one knew that they existed and so is it unreasonable to ask questions about what the files were for and who authorised them.
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What a shock, scandal surrounding the police and politician’s …. “Someone” has authorised Operation Blast and I think it is fair to say that we all know that the police never do anything without a form being filled in triplicate and rubber stamped !
By all means do the relevant police checks, as is normal practice for employers, but to keep a dossier is something quite different.
And we wonder why we can’t attract more visitors to the island!
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