Tough new line on youth crime
Thursday 2nd July 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Home Affairs Minister Ian Le Marquand
TOUGHER sentences could be handed down to teenage hooligans under new laws, the Home Affairs Minister has warned.
Senator Ian Le Marquand, formerly the Island’s Magistrate, wants the courts to be given more powers to sentence children under the age of 15.
He is hoping that a new law will be supported by the States so that children can be
sentenced to time in the Greenfields secure unit. At present, children can only be held at the unit while on remand.
The minister also wants new powers to stop children running away from care homes. ‘I have complained bitterly for the past eight years, going back to my period as Magistrate, that the court has had no enforceable sentences for those aged under 15,’ he said. ‘That is still the position, so the courts are extraordinarily limited in what they can do.’
A series of meetings is now being held by the ministers of the Education, Health and Social Services and Home Affairs departments following the rise in anti-social behaviour and youth crime in the Island.
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
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Presumably they will not only give them community service but also take away their sweeties.
Lock them up with hardened criminals for a month and lets see how tough they are.
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This is good news.
If the courts are to given more powers, I just hope the senator has been reading some of the posts on this site, and uses some lateral thinking in enabling sentences that will work and are not seen as a joke by the minority of the repeat offenders.
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Anything that happens can only improve the abysmal sentencing policy that exists at this time.
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Well done Ian Le Marquand. It’s a start anyway. Let’s just hope something can be done to bring the hoodlums under control. Suppose the do-gooders won’t agree to the poor little darlings being incarcerated.
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Finally – about time too.
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Any States member that doesn’t support this should be removed from their office. This is long overdue and would be a welcome change to the law, especially in cases where we have seen recent assualts on tourists.
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About time
Hopefully, they will name and shame the parents of these delinquents too
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history shows that the hard line doesn’t work for many reasons. sorry minister, it’s time to think again if you really want to stop us ending up like the uk
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Make parents accountable. Heavy fines for the parents of those that re offend and community service for parents alongside their delinquent offspring too.
Maybe, just maybe, they may start taking an interest in their children.
And for those who are unemployed and how about stopping their benefits.
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Good news. The chavs of this island are well aware that they are virtually untouchable, about time that our elected representatives started doing something about it.
As for the bleeding-heart liberals that feel we should be just showing compassion and love to the teenage muggers, they obviously live nowhere near any of the troublespots but merely choose to pass judgement from the safety and comfort of their country houses. Rather like those in the Council of Ministers I suspect.
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Perhaps a lesson can be learnt from Singapore where corporal punishment is used as a legal form of discipline on young delinquents. As a result juvenile crime is minimal in the City State!
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“bruce history shows that the hard line doesn’t work for many reasons. sorry minister, it’s time to think again if you really want to stop us ending up like the uk”
So Bruce what do you suggest, sit them down and talk to them?
I disagree, New York adopted the three strikes and you’re out policy whereby criminals found guilty of commiting three offenses went to jail for life ( term may have been 20 years viewed as life ) New York became one of the safest cities in America.
Also young offenders were sent to tough jails to serve hard time with some of the worst criminals in the state, hardly anyone re offended.
Look at the behaviour in schools since the cane was banned, they misbehave because there is not deterrant, what’s to stop them?
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“This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.” Author: Theodore Roosevelt
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‘COULD’!!?
These children have become the untouchables!
When WILL these teenage ‘thugs’ be given a sentence that fits the crime with the parents accountable for any damage etc caused, in the way of fines regardless of earnings earned or via Income Support.
Take away these niceties these kids expect to have, computers mobile phones etc.
Well done Me Le Marquand, the sooner the better you do something before a youngster is killed by these hooligans that roam our streets in packs.
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If you want to behave like an adult, then expect to be treated like one…….. Is it too little , too late? The Jersey way… maybe, time will tell if these harder punishments materialise. ohh, and Bruce # 8 ” Wake up “
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no 12 keith and no 15 florida bean
3 strikes and you’re out originated in california … it didn’t work there. new york is not particularly safe, and the ‘broken window’ philosophy had alot more to do with social improvement than any hardline sentencing.
i’m not a bleeding heart liberal. i don’t think that sitting down and chatting to offenders would work.
but if you think that banging youths up and shutting away the problem is going to solve it you are very naive.
young offenders placed in institutions tend to come out more hardened, and more prone to further acts of criminality. dishing out heavy sentences doesn’t work.
and the cane was stopped in school because it was barbaric.
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I work in a Senior school, some of the worst kid’s are the one’s whose parents ‘think alike’
The worst offenders are the one’s who know the Law, they don’t know their ABC!!!!!! But they know
all about the system
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Harder sentence yes but taking these youngsters into custody probably gives the parents a “holiday” as a reward for failing to control and educate their children!
Instead law should be amended to force parents to take greater responsibility for the unsupervised actions of their children.
If child commits a crime both parent and child should have to attend courses at weekends re behaviour and partcipate in community service project together.
Child should be tagged and have a home curfew that must be monitored by a parent being present. This menas no pub for the parent!
With this the parent might take some responsibility.
If child reoffends parent is responsible and faces material community service/jail depending on severity.
Parents might think about how their children behave and where they are!
For others they might decide that having more children as a way of genertaing income is not a good idea if they cannot control the ones they have already and that it will have an impact on their personal life.
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In recent years Jersey has followed the UK with the benefits and housing for babies policy. Perhaps if benefits were harder to come by they would think twice before the children were produced. Contraception is free.
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Instead of trying to lock children up why not try effective education with some discipline. It has worked for many generations before.
If children think that they can get away with anything at school and/or at home then they will push the boundaries elsewhere.
Stop pussy-footing around about school discipline and call parents to rights at a young enough age, and the problem will go away.
Otherwise the right-wing will be calling for the birch to be re-introduced along with incarceration.
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Along with the discipline and the punishment we also need to provide better recreational facilities too. Some of the troublemakers are being lead along by the hardcore offenders simply because they have nothing better to do so we do need something like the fort to keep them occupied as well. Then they’ll all have no excuse whatsoever for misbehaving.
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re Bruce “the cane was stopped because it was barbaric”
Sir, gangs of youths beating people up is barbaric. The only thing these idiots respect is brute force so they need to be shown that they cannot fight the law and win. At the moment they can do pretty much what they like and the imcompetent legal system is virtually powerless to stop them.
The ‘short sharp shock’ may not have been an ideal solution but it taught people respect for the law and was considerably better than the namby-pamby pandering that has so badly failed society since the cane and the birch were taken away.
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Bruce – say what you like about the cane it was an effective deterrant. I was never caned whilst at school, I knew where the line was and stayed on the right side of it.
ith no such deterrant in place I would have run wild, what’s to stop me. I’ve seen much worse punishment than the cane when I was at school, one housemaster gathered a group of boys ( me included ) into his office for allegedly bullying a pupil and punched and kicked each of us in turn.
The kid wasn’t bullied again ( actually I didn’t even think I was bullying him, just ribbing him about his haircut )news of this spread and no one messed with his kids.
Unless you are brain dead severe punishment is a deterrant, how can it not be. Conversely no punishment is an open invitation to do what you like.
Hey if it was down to me they would get one warning and be shot on the second offence, there wouldn’t be a third.
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Who do you suppose is not teaching values and respect…? as soon as kids found out they could say to the teacher,”Any aggro from you and you’ll be up in court” we lost the game right there,so well done Ian Le Marquand for having the strength of character to take things forward and let these little blighters feel vulnerable again….perhaps they then may even develop compassion for others again…
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#20 Darren
Please DO feel free to call me right wing then!
The old style borstals sorted out a lot of thugs.
They need to be put away and stopped from mixing with their buddies at all. Everyone knows everyone else in a small place like Jersey. Some commit crime knowing it’s a way for them will be put inside with their ‘idols’. Off-Island would be best where they’d be little fish and not the sharks they are here.
It’s past the talking-to them stage. That just doesn’t work.
I’ve said before, name them and their parents and do that as a Crime Prevention measure.
Otherwise, if nothing is done we WILL have a death. It’s a long time to wait until they’re adults and they can be locked away and made to face up to their actions. We can’t risk the time-scale in which heaven knows what or who will be attacked. As adults they really are quite ‘thick’ when they think they are going to get the usual ‘probation’ or ‘binding- over’ to wave in the public’s faces. Only at 18 will they become’Touchables’.
Come on Senator Le Marquand….you know how to have laws drafted,and the rest of the Government must surely support you.
PLEASE PLEASE help protect the public.Prevention is better than cure. The majority I’m certain will welcome firm steps to stem the increasing violence.
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Overpopulated (19) – You are my hero!!
Well said.
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Thankyou ,Robert # 18, Finally some sense…….. maybe you should have a chat with Bruce.# 8.. Perhaps over tea with the darling teens that beat up the French students!!! I guess you could serve them cookies while your at it!
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Overpopulated 19 – mate you have said something I have long thought true. The root of this problem is people having children that don’t care for them and should never have had them. Because we encourage people to have children with social housing, benefits and tax incentives, some people are having kids knowing that the state will pay for them.Parents should be financially responsible for their children, that would stop the chavs breeding
I am penalised for not having children, I pay a higher rate of taxation to subsidise the health and education of those that choose to have them. I am denied access to social housing and to top it off I am not permitted to park anywhere near my local supermarket as those spaces close to the store are reserved for parent & child.
If those choosing to have children readily accept the benefits ( tax, housing, education ) then shouldn’t they accept that there may be a downside and not assume that they are entitled to the best parking spaces also?
It’s bad enough to have them dragging their screaming little brats around the supermarket making my shopping experience the poorer without taking all the parking as well.
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Hi, I was born in Jersey I now live in the UK, if you continue to overcrowd the people they become like animals to many in a field and they will kill each other,same applies when putting people in little boxes,you are spoiling my buetiful home ,dont make the same mistake as the uk,disaplin is very important,the adult should be in control not the child,but not all parents are at the route of the problem and should not be blamed for there childrens wrong doing,and yes some parents dont help,but education is the key to sucsess,help family prisons and punishments like that wont help.
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#20 Darren, I agree. Parents need to be held to rights first and foremost. Parents are not taking responsibility for their children and they need to be forced to do so. And I do really mean forced.
As for those who assume that only poor people have bad offspring, this could not be further from the truth. Rich people can be extemely neglectful parents. Kids can cope easily without the latest technology, they cannot cope with parents that seem to not want to spend time with them. I have seen far too many rich people who have a child as some kind of ‘perfect family symbol’ but do not want to give any of their precious time to the child. These parents are usually the worst when their child does cause trouble because they will defend their child till they are blue in the face since their child ‘couldn’t possibly have done such a thing’.
There are those having children to get housing. There are, however, many more who have kids because it’s just what you do once you reach a certain age and because babies are apparently ‘so lovely’ (I swear I know some people who have just done it because life has got a little routine and a bit ‘what’s next?’)… they go into it assuming they will not have to alter their life at all and they can still have their existing social life, they can be that ‘Superwoman’.
Well they can’t. If you choose to have kids you are giving up minimum 18 years of your life and putting them first, no matter how inconvenient, boring or time consuming it is for you. They did not ask to be born, you decided to have them, they are not to blame for your lack of proper consideration over the issue of having them.
No-one can have it all. If you want to have kids and work then don’t move far away from your family. Don’t expect the same career options as those who haven’t taken time off to look after sick kids. Don’t expect society to solve the problems you have with your child or to help you raise it.
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Dianne, you are totally right about overcrowding. A land may be able to physically sustain so many people, but the number of people it can sustain happily will be a lot less than that.
You’re wrong about parents though. There are cases where the parents are totally not to blame but for the majority better parenting would make a real difference.
Kids learn boundaries and respect before they even go to school, they learn their core values at an age where their single biggest influence is their parents. After that age you can teach a child to say the right things but they won’t necessarily value human life or property and if they don’t it will show at some point in later life.
Kids learn by what they see. I never heard my parents criticise my teachers or other family members. I don’t doubt that they did but they did it in private because they knew that to do it in front of the children would affect the respect the children had for those people. My parents would always back our teachers, but, as I found out in later life, if they disagreed they would go and see the teacher and say their peace away from us children. They didn’t argue with each other in front of us either. Parents nowadays if they are even present discuss all sorts and criticise people in front of their children with no realisation of how this affects their children’s level of respect for others.
It is the most basic things that parents do that affect how much their child values respect, authority and human life
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Take away the childs ability to get Alcohol! It would cut the teenage pregnancy level! and the problems in town and st Brelade! The Under age drinking problem is the worst in europe for size of the populous! scary and what do the, Police alcohol and drug and health say! theres nothing we can do! it makes a lot of tax money! If they would do something about it then they would and can! Notice Spice comes out and its banned because it mase kids act weird at jersey live! A child gets crushed under a lorry in the snow years ago and they say oh well he was drunk! When is the attitude to getting drunk over here going to change and im sick of the excuses as to why nothing can be done.
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James, the underage pregnancy and STI levels are also the highest in Europe (and Jersey is higher than the UK for STIs). This isn’t all down to alcohol, although I can’t see that it helps.
Morals and decency have a lot to do with it. And these are things you mostly learn from your parents. But now parents want to be ‘cool’ and allow their teenager to have their boyfriend over to stay the night or give them alcohol young! That’s not a parent’s job, these are things that friends do.
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