Sunday shop shake-up
Saturday 4th July 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Shopping in the precinct on the Sunday after Liberation Day
MANY more shops could soon be allowed to open seven days a week under the biggest shake-up of Sunday trading laws in 50 years.
Economic Development want to scrap the current system which means that only 20 or so types of products on a prescribed list can be sold on the Sabbath.
They also want to end the postcode lottery – which has led to similar shops being able to open in some parishes and not others – and make it easier for shops to open on special occasions, including the run-up to Christmas, Good Friday and Liberation Day.
To effect the changes, Economic Development have drafted a new law which will update rules that have been in place since 1960.
At present, any shop can open on a Sunday, but can only sell goods on the prescribed list. The new draft law proposes that parish Constables will have discretion to allow any shops to open. However, regulations can be introduced after the law is passed that would place limitations on that discretion.
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
2012 CYCLE SLAM
Dallaglio Flintoff 2012 Cycle Slam
Read Graeme Le Saux's daily blogs
Greece-London Marathon on a Bike
The Dallaglio Flintoff 2012 Cycle Slam
Travel
To, from and around the Island
Airport Arrivals/Departures
Harbours Arrivals/Departures
Bus Information/Timetables
This is Jersey
Jersey Evening Post
Useful links
staff must not be forced to work on sunday.
however there wiil always be someone who will not mind the part time or sunday cover only position.
Report abuse
Predictably, I would say that this proposal is not a moment before time.
In fact, I would say that it comes 40 years late.
I fully respect the views and mores of those who observe Sunday as their Sabbath and day of worship.
Nevertheless, there are many more who would prefer to worship the twin gods of B&Q, or even M&S.
Report abuse
I hope this doesn’t mean that we will now be able to buy flowers on a Sunday.
I don’t mind the availability of alcohol or cigarettes but flowers are dangerous!
Does this mean that those who work a 6 day week in the building trade will now be able to shop on their day off? this is disgraceful, what next equal rights for non locals?
Report abuse
I have no doubt that all the arguments that were produced in the UK during the early 90s regarding Sunday opening will now get an airing in Jersey; not least the predictable argument of shop staff being ‘forced’ to work on a Sunday.
The effect of Sunday trading in the UK has been to produce extra trade, extra income and extra choice.
At a time of economic down turn and the threat of rising employment in Jersey the extra boost to the economy that Sunday will produce trading should be encouraged.
Peter Troy St Saviour Jersey
Report abuse
For heavens sake do not allow the constables to interfere. Jersey is practically dead as an island . What’s the point of a law if once passed can have limitations on it ? Let businesses do what it does best without political interference. Interference has led to a number of businesses going out of business in the not to distance past.
As for those of you who may say ” What about the workers having to work on Sunday ” In this climate I should think that many would be only to please to work.
What about those who already work on a Sunday like restaurant’s / hotel/ guest house staff. Police/ Fire/ Ambulance/Nurses/ Doctors/ Airport/ Harbour ect, ect, get my drift. Sorry can not have one rule for some and not the others ( that’s called double standards)
Report abuse
As far as I am concerned Sunday should be a rest day. 6 days work is more than enough. This is the trouble with this capitalistic greed driven society there is no down time for people.
I think it is appalling that people should be forced to work on a Sunday. If companies want to open on a Sunday let the owner or boss do it. If they can’t be bothered don’t pressure the workers to do it who might well have a family they want to spend time with.
If I had my way I would have people on a 4 day working week covering Monday to Friday then there wouldn’t be any need for anyone to work at the weekends except for emergency workers would there?
The workers could then do their shopping on their day off in the week. Simple but effective giving the majority 2 days off every weekend for leisure pursuits and a spare working day off for shopping and other capitalistic addictions. Why have your life set around work when work can be set up to enable you to live your life? All it takes is a bit of common sense and it could work well.
Anyway this is my analysis of this subject.
Report abuse
i disagree with the sunday trading!! whats that all about, wanting to be like the uk now!!
Report abuse
I disagree with trading n a sunday!! whats that all about, wanting to start being like the uk! DONT THINK SO!!
Report abuse
Adrian. Just what leisure activities are you thinking of doing in your eutopia. Can’t be going for a drive as the petrol stations will be closed, can’t be going to play sport as the pitches will be closed, can be having lunch in a restaurant as they will be closed, can’t be going for a walk and having an ice cream as that will be closed. Can’t even watch TV as in your world nobody should work on a weekend
Wake up, the world has been 24/7 for years and you are happy with that as long as you are not one of them.
Report abuse
no one should have to work a sunday ity should be a day of rest
Report abuse
Mr Kipling…careful now you might even be able to hire a video…sorry dvd.as before the last thing you would want to do on a weekend was have a film co’s the law said so, I wonder what all those frightened individuals who can’t think for them selves and hide shivering behind “The Law” will have to say about that..you never know this could lead to someone holding up a liqour store on a Sunday brandishing a bunch of daff’s
Report abuse
Jacqueline said in comment 5:
” What’s the point of a law if once passed can have limitations on it?”
Laws have to suit and reflect current circumstances, Jackie. We have moved on nearly fifty years since the last Sunday trading law was passed.
As for “limitations”: perhaps you could expand on this somewhat ambiguous use of the word?
Report abuse
Adrian’s opinions are fraught with errors of logic.
No one will be “forced to work on a Sunday”. I pay my employees a premium to work on Sunday.
Adrian’s assertion that “in this capitalistic greed driven society there is no down time for people” is erroneous. My employees work a standard five-day week, with two consecutive days off.
Unless Jersey commerce moves with the times you will see more and more of your retail outlets going bankrupt.
Boarded up shops in King Street will do little for the island’s residents and less for its international public image. After all, no one wants to do business with a failed economy.
Report abuse
I read many comments about staff ‘maybe forced to work’. Think in this climate we currently have one should be thankful they have a job, many people around the world would be happy to hear of more opportunities. There will always be staff willing to work regardless of the day, many professions already don’t have that choice.
People who come to the island for a day trip or long weekend should be able to shop just like the man who works throughout the week. Get with the ‘times’ Jersey, one of the reason I left my Island 8 years ago. Now I can shop 24hrs a day, buy what I want , when I want, great.
Report abuse
who said anything about people being ‘forced’ to work on a Sunday? If the law is changed, then shop owners and companies have the option to open if they want too surely?
Report abuse
My brother is a supermarket area manager in the UK ( one of the big ones they won’t let us have )
When Sunday opening kicked off in the UK there were concerns regarding staff having to work also.
In practice what has happened is that some part time posts have been created for weekend work, also some mums who work part time during the week choose to work on a Sunday as it pays overtime and allows them to earn much needed extra cash. It has given employees a greater degree of flexibility and no one has been forced to work on a Sunday.
If this is going to be implemented here then this model should be adopted. Overtime should be paid and only those employees who choose to work should be working.
I too would like to work a 4 day week, even if this meant four 9 hour days but the system is what it is – not what we want it to be.
Report abuse
Since moving to England three years ago I have thoroughly enjoyed having the choice to shop on Sundays.I work at a farmshop/restaurant at a stately home and although students are eager to work on Sundays if it happens that we are short staffed I happily work as it is always busy and lively and an enjoyable day.
Jersey is like anywhere else now-many people out of work or looking for extra income and I think the old line about “people being forced to work” doesn’t really hold much water these days.Many would be happy to work on Sunday perhaps having a week day off in lieu when they can shop or do their chosen pastime on a quieter day while others are at work.
Report abuse
There is an employment law in Jersey so even if some people are required to work on a sunday then they will simply have another day off in it’s stead.
What’s the problem with that?
Personally I don’t think much will change. It’s not the opening hours which put people off shopping in st Helier it’s the prices.
Is it suddenly going to be cheaper to shop on Sunday??
Also, if shops are given the go-ahead will ALL businesses be allowedd to open on a Sunday??
Who will look after the kids when all parents are working at the weekend/ Will the schools open 7 days a week (another personal opinion is they should anyway to keep the yobs off the streets and increase their education!).
Report abuse
Ah Adrian, I have this wonderful Ben Hur Vision of the managers at B & Q (Suitably oiled of course) striding up and down the shop on a Sunday wielding a cat and nine tails, beating sweating minions as they struggle to put together yet another self assembly display model! I do think that management techniques these days have moved on (Not much in some places but that’s another story)and one would hope that shift work or personal choice would have a bearing on weekend staffing of businesses which choose to open.
I do not agree with {5) Jacqueline above about the Parish Constables not having discretion (For example:there are businesses whose activities could be regarded, by those who wish to use Sunday as a day of worship, as provocative or offensive}.
I personally am totally against attacks on the Parish Constables and the powers they have over their communities. This is a feature of Jersey that is unique and is the method by which the Island retains some link with tradition. The advantage is also that localised grievances and views can be aired and resolved without there being an expensive argument involving remote beureaucrats having to intervene and decide trivial issues without any local knowledge or understanding.
Sunday trading has to happen as it is a fact of life elsewhere and a convenience for those who work such long hours during the week they don’t have a chance to shop.Like all day pub opening in the UK I suspect the economic factor of supply and demand will determine which businesses will continue to open seven days a week once allowed to do so for a while.
Report abuse
These farcical laws regarding Sunday trading should never have been passed in the first place, they don’t even follow any sort of logic. You can buy alcohol and a ‘top shelf’ magazine but you can’t buy a bible?! Supposed to be a day of rest but you cannot purchase a dvd to enjoy on said day of rest?! This craziness makes a mockery of the law and it’s long overdue for a major overhaul.
Anyway, if anybody wants to shop on a Sunday, I suggest they do it online – the stores are always open, prices are lower, choice is significantly larger, and you get better service too. IF Jersey actually wants to compete with internet shopping then perhaps it needs to “think twice – open the local shops”
Report abuse
“Anyway, if anybody wants to shop on a Sunday, I suggest they do it online”
That’s a cumbersome and self-defeating process if all you want is a pint of milk and a Sunday newspaper!
Back to the drawing board, Tobias.
Report abuse
There is no need to go shopping on a Sunday whatsoever so why do we need it? We don’t it is driven by this consumer, greed, get people in debt, society to make money. Money is not life it is to enable you to get a life. So I suggest we do that. Anyway if you are that desperate to shop at any time do it online and you get around this issue don’t you?
UK visitor what happens if your employees don’t want to work on a Sunday are they threatened with the sack if they don’t do as they are told?
As per your employees with children how can working on a Saturday and Sunday be good for family life?
Are you sure your employees wouldn’t prefer the weekend off to spend with their family and friends? Have you asked them even?
Retail is going to the wall the internet will see to that. Why pay a premium for shoddy service and no choice when you can shop on line 24/7 and get your goods down within a few days? The good thing with this model is that these online shops don’t need to be open 24/7 do they? They can process orders during working hours where ever they are around the world. Simple but effective and liberating for the workforce. Or maybe this isn’t what those running the show want?
Nick nothing has to happen if people don’t want it to. Big business wants this to maximise profits and for no other reason. It is not in the majorities best interests to work silly hours is it? How can doctors for example be up to doing operations after an 80 hour week for example?
It is time things were reassessed and better working practices were brought out. Working 6-7 day weeks to pay one’s bills is not the way to live it is the way to an early grave in many cases. What a waste of a life. How many go off with strokes heart attacks brought on by work related stress now? How many die in harness? Not good is it? What happens to someone on long term sick how do they pay their bills, what about others having to care for them, or look after their children or elderly relatives etc? What happens when more people are off sick than are at work? Lots of issues that are starting to come to the fore now but very few have the nowse to say change before it is too late and too much damage is done to too many peoples’ health etc.
As per local prices I’ll repeat for the umpteenth time. Cut import/export costs to get goods and people into Jersey simple but effective to increase tourism, travel for locals to and from Jersey and make local businesses more viable both locally and worldwide. Or do as we do and charge a fortune to get things in and what Jersey retail wither and die. This is my analysis on this topic.
Report abuse
from my point of view, if my wife had to work on a sunday to and got “another day off in the week” i would never get to spend time with her and when we had kids it would be the same. i’m sure there are others that would be in the same boat. At least Sunday is a day most people get to spend together.
Report abuse
How large stores manage to meet their costs of Sunday opening I am not sure.
We have a five story department store not too far away and if you go in on a Sunday, you could be the only customer on your floor with five or six assistants either making out to look busy, or huddled talking in a corner.
Go to the restaurant which serves 60 odd tables and you will find six or seven occupied, often by just one person.
Report abuse
Magnolia Man – Correct me if I’m mistaken (as I neither read the Sunday papers nor drink cow juice) but I was always under the impression that there’s a magnitude of places open on Sundays where one can easily obtain both a carton of the islands’ finest pasteurised goodness and a newspaper.
At the aforementioned establishments it would, however, be illegal to purchase a bible, amongst other things. Most unfortunate, as on the holy Sabbath I often feel the urge to read all about our saviour Lord Jesus. Alas, the law forbids it.
Report abuse
21 Magnolia Man “That’s a cumbersome and self-defeating process if all you want is a pint of milk and a Sunday newspaper!
Back to the drawing board, Tobias”.
Milk, newspapers and petrol are about the only things I don’t buy online, oh and the weekly shop at those shops we’re permitted to have.
I think your comment is derivative and unnecessary, clearly the point being made is that the online shopping experience is cheaper, offers more choice and better service. I recently bought a filter for my washing machine thqt wasn’t available locally, the local service agents quyoted a week for delivery, I had it delivered the next day for less.
I don’t doubt that Tobias is more than capable of presenting a logical defence for himsilf and it’s not my intention to intrude, but in the face of such obvious BS!
Report abuse
Shops should be allowed to open on Sunday as they do the rest of the week. Whether they continue to do so will be decided by islanders voting with their feet. As for the constables having decision making authority….pffff that’s a joke.
Report abuse
“Anyway, if anybody wants to shop on a Sunday, I suggest they do it online”
think twice buy local, just not on a sunday!
Report abuse
What Adrian wrote: “There is no need to go shopping on a Sunday whatsoever so why do we need it?”
What Adrian really meant: “I have no need to go shopping on a Sunday whatsoever so why do YOU need it?”
Report abuse
A question for Willie Eckerslike (lovely name, btw!):
I suppose you buy all your groceries, dairy products, fruit and vegetables, and meat and fish online as well?
What the inhabitants of Jersey need is CHOICE, which in this case may be construed as the choice of when to perform any act that is legal and moral – such as shopping on a Sunday.
Possibly the only country where Sabbath shopping is not permitted is Israel, and even there are enormous loopholes in the trading laws.
Report abuse
“UK visitor what happens if your employees don’t want to work on a Sunday are they threatened with the sack if they don’t do as they are told?”
Categorically no. I employ a member of the Salvation Army, who made it clear that she was not prepared to work on Sunday.
Fair enough, I respect her and I respect her convictions. She takes Sunday and Monday as her weekly days off.
Result: a happy and productive employee who contributes to a successful business – largely because her religious and social needs were honoured.
‘On n’attrape pas les mouches avec du vinaigre!’
Report abuse
It’s not a order but a choice only for every shop owner. The shoper should discuss and get agree with the employee if they want to make change.
Report abuse
To all the people who are against Sunday opening I hope you do not buy a Sunday newspaper? Or is it OK for certain businesses to operate on Sunday if it suits you?Many years ago my husband had a newsagents business which meant that our only day off all year was Christmas Day and even then people used to ask if we would be open!!
I honestly think that many people would work happily on Sundays and have a day off in the week instead.Not everyone has a young family to consider and I repeat what I have said previously- students are usually willing to fill these jobs and/or older people who prefer /don’t mind a weekday off instead.
Report abuse
Magnolia Man 30 – “I suppose you buy all your groceries, dairy products, fruit and vegetables, and meat and fish online as well?”
No because it’s not practical but I buy everything else online, I agree we should have the choice to shop when we want. Many of us have only one day off and it’s Sunday, it seems unfair that we are not permitted to shop on our day off. No one should be forced to work on a Sunday but as has been previously indicated this works perfectly well in the UK with employees given the opportunity to earn overtime should they so wish.
Expamding on the choice theme, why are we not permitted to have one of the major UK supermarkets here, everyone wants it why can’t we have it?
I’m not niave enough to assume that low UK prices would accompany the store but expanded choice would be welcome.
The existing trading laws are outdated and contradictory, lets open up the field and provide everyone with choice, if you don’t want to shop you don’t have to!
Report abuse
For God’s sake, don’t let trading on Sunday, preserve Jersey as it is. Sunday trading is just the beginnig, the next step would be 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days a year and you’ll and up being like in a shopping mall. If someone wants to trade on Sunday, let them open self-service shop with essential products. Such shops exists in France.
Report abuse
Heh. Loving the rants on here, especially from Adrian.
Of course Sunday trading should be allowed. That doesn’t mean the retailers have to open, its just an option for them. Not all shops in the UK open on a Sunday.
Report abuse
I’m not against it, mainly, but just to clear up the ‘forced to open’ argument. If your competitor is opening on a Sunday, it would be suicide not to have to join them. Therefore they are being forced. The bigger retailers can afford to open much more easily, if the smaller businesses don’t they will lose whatever market share they had. This generally means that the proprietors will have to do the time to avoid extra salaries and so the quality of life is reduced.
However, as mentioned already, this half and half measure we have now serves no purpose. Either close all shops or allow them all to open.
Report abuse
now the retailers are moaning about the french market taking away their bussiness and they only come here a few times a year.they just don,t want any-one to compete with them.makes no difference to me if they,d open 24 hours every day,i still would,nt shop here.
Report abuse
What about stores opening 24 hours, 7 days a week?! Great Idea! No long lines in M+S, B+Q etc Wake up in the night, go out buy some groceries, maybe a burger and chips, nice quiet stroll through the Metropolis, lovely…
Report abuse
Just a few thoughts.
We already have problems with youngsters roaming around unsupervised – would having their parents working on a Sunday help what is already a serious problem?
If one business decides to open on a Sunday their competitors feel they are forced to do so as well so it’s not a real choice.
Some staff do get forced to work on holidays already – granted, not all businesses would do this but it is bound to happen. It’s all very well having a day off in the week in lieu but what’s the point if your children are in school and your husband/partner working? Is this going to help the pressures on the family unit? The extra income may help the family’s finances but at what cost to the family unit?
I’m not bothered one way or another about being able to shop on a Sunday but I do think we should carefully consider the effect on family life and particularly the children.
Report abuse
“Magnolia Man
Posted July 6, 2009 at 1:59 am
“UK visitor what happens if your employees don’t want to work on a Sunday are they threatened with the sack if they don’t do as they are told?”
Categorically no. I employ a member of the Salvation Army, who made it clear that she was not prepared to work on Sunday.
Fair enough, I respect her and I respect her convictions. She takes Sunday and Monday as her weekly days off.
Result: a happy and productive employee who contributes to a successful business – largely because her religious and social needs were honoured.”
If only all employers were that considerate. Having worked in retail on this island for the best part of 20 years, my experience is that your attitude is the exception rather than the rule.
Many is the time I have seen “gentle pressure” used to convince shop employees to work on public holidays. You see, it’s not illegal for the boss to make clear how VERY unhappy he would be if you “chose” not to work on that day. Or how negatively it may reflect on you at your next appraisial by showing an “unwillingness to do extra hours”.
You make the point your employee gets Monday off instead off Sunday. Do you not understand that with the current retail working week Sunday is the only day left that many families have the chance to spend together?
If Sunday trading is brought in there needs to be a distinct and firm clause in the Law stating that full time employees can NOT be forced to work on that day. The onus should be on the employer to employ temporary staff to cover Sundays.
Reatil employees are already being pushed into second class citizen status by the current regular work hours, which seem designed to benefit those in our society who are lucky enough to work 9 to 5, Monday to Saturday, with public holdays off.
Enough is enough. Retail workers would like some quality of life too. Well, until we get a level playing field and see office workers and States members having to turn up for work on Sundays, get random days off during the week in lieu, and working on public holidays.
Report abuse
“Retail employees are already being pushed into second class citizen status by the current regular work hours, which seem designed to benefit those in our society who are lucky enough to work 9 to 5, Monday to Saturday, with public holdays off.”
That should have read “Monday to Friday”, obviously! Sorry!
Report abuse
Jersey Girl…..no, you wouldn’t want to be like the uk, with a free housing market, no restrictions on work, a fully functioning welfare state……
Report abuse
No.1 Why would sunday opening neccesarily mean that shops will inevitably end up opening 24 hours a day?
No.2 anyone else who has run out of petrol or needed something from the shops late at night only to find that EVERYWHERE else on the island has closed might see this as a god send.
No.3 (and this one is simply undeniable) Anyone who thinks that buying flowers/dvd’s/games on a sunday is EEEEEEVVVVIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!
Report abuse
For goodness sake…..it only takes a little bit of re-organisation and good management. Banks have been opening longer hours for ages now(not necessarily your high st retail bank, but larger global organisations) because most clients live elsewhere in the world and we still have to be able to service their needs. Most staff just rotate and cover the different time periods – it’s actually quite nice to have a variation instead of the routine 9-5, mon-fri. I’m sure this could be managed for retail too.
In all cases the Jersey Employment Law states “An employee is entitled to an uninterrupted rest period of not less than 24 hours in each 7 day period. If the employer and employee agree in a relevant agreement (i.e. a collective agreement or individual contract), an employee will be entitled to either:
a) two uninterrupted rest periods each of not less than 24 hours in each 14-day period, or
b) one uninterrupted rest period of not less than 48 hours in each 14-day period.”
You can read further on http://www.jacs.org.je
Besides if there is no business to be made on a sunday then it will not materialise. A shop won’t open unless there is sufficient demand.
Report abuse
Adrian (22) I take it you are over a certain age ( retired ) can shop any day of the week, unlike those of us working Mon to Fri/ Sat who just might like to shop on a Sunday. Do you think it will take 7 hours to do the shopping with our children in tow???? of course not.
Again Adrain(6 ) so its ok for the emergency services to work ( where are you coming from ? )do they not have family /children ?? Wake up.
Nick let me know where the provocative or offensive material is ?? Is that not sold 6 days of the week ??
Tell you what just close Jersey down, we are nearly there already.
Then we can all go on the social, states will love that.
Report abuse
Why must we copy the UK or USA, why not the French way. Not only do they not open on a Sunday but close every day for lunch, far more civilised.
Report abuse
Adrian, the world has changed. Your vision of a perfect Sunday, is so outdated it’s almost laughable
Report abuse
Re Julia’s message 41 in which she said:
“You make the point your employee gets Monday off instead off Sunday.”
I made my point CRYSTAL CLEAR. My God-fearing employee gets two consecutive days off in every week: Sunday AND Monday.
She is happy. I am happy. It’s a win-win solution. What’s wrong with that, Julia?
Report abuse
“What about stores opening 24 hours, 7 days a week?! Great Idea! No long lines in M+S, B+Q etc Wake up in the night, go out buy some groceries, maybe a burger and chips, nice quiet stroll through the Metropolis, lovely”
This was tried by Tesco in London. It was commercially unsuccessful so the idea was dropped.
Report abuse
Ben, if only that were true. There will be an element of choice over whether you open on a Sunday or not but, as has happened in the UK, those that choose to stay closed will eventually feel forced to open. One shop in Glasgow initially chose to close on a Monday instead but that quickly faded. They have not made any more money than they made when they were open 6 days a week but their overheads have increased. For some it’s the catch-22 of ‘losing’ the business to another trader (which doesn’t happen if you are ALL closed) or losing the money on overheads.
As for business having increased, does anyone have any evidence of this? People need to buy what they need to buy, it’s not like restaurants or bars.
Many small shops in the UK do stay closed on a Sunday but others do feel forced to open.
Report abuse
Jacqueline no I’m not retired yet but I don’t know anyone who is retired that would go back to work, even the ones who were dreading retiring! For some unknown reason even those living for work once they get the retirement bug realise that doing what they want when they want is unbeatable. I am not dreading retirement like some appear to, I will be quite happy to have more free time to do what I want, if I get there.
If people can’t shop between 08:00 to 20:00 Monday to Saturday there must be something wrong would you not agree? This equates to 72 hours of shopping time or to put it another way 3 whole days out of every week!
As per children why can’t you leave them with their grandparents or a friend who has their own kids for them to play with? I can’t see how Sunday shopping helps on this score as the children don’t go to school on a Sunday yet. However it wouldn’t surprise me if some bright spark suggests this soon. We can’t stay in the past can we, even if it is better there. We must make things worse year by year mustn’t we?
Well done Sue, France is miles better they have a life over there. They don’t pander to big business and finance do they? I find their life style much better for one’s health and well being. They know their neighoburs and aren’t class concious or as possession oriented as the Brits are.
They laugh at the British way of running to the grave, prefering to meander through life savouring every minute instead of driving themselves into an early grave like so many Brits do. They don’t swallow the grand delusions put out by those in charge that working hard is the way to become rich, and have a good life. They know there is more to life than work. When will the Brits realise this?
Darren what is wrong with everyone except those in the emergency services having Sundays off? Once Sunday working is taken as the norm you will find it will only get worse as we go towards 24/7/365 working. There is no need for this, this is not working to live is it?
What is good about working on a Sunday? Have people not got better things to do with their time than go to work when they should be spending time with their families? Since when have you seen on head stones “he was a good worker”?
I believe work is taking over peoples’ lives as they are brain washed into spending more and more on mostly useless throw away items, to enable them to keep up with the Jones’. Time to get away from the slavery that is today’s consumer debt driven world and have more freedom from drudgery.
Free time is the most important asset anyone has. It is not money as some people seem to think. People need to spend less to enable them to get by on less money hence freeing up their time for more rewarding things like spending time with their friends and family.
I believe people should also endeavour to be as self sufficient as possible doing their own maintenance on their properties growing their own veg and fishing to feed themselves as much as possible.
The more useless possessions you have the more you are trapping yourself in the western consumer culture and all the problems associated with it as far as I am concerned.
Report abuse
Sue wrote:
“… why not the French way. Not only do they not open on a Sunday but close every day for lunch, far more civilised.”
Is this really true or are you talking about backwaters like Carteret?
I can’t believe that Paris closes down for lunch. Someone please tell me otherwise.
Report abuse
Far too many idiotic comments posted already for mine to make a difference.
1. Religeous principles should not be enforced by law.
2. Traders should be able to open whenever they want.
3. Jersey needs to have an effective employment law that will allow time off, and prevent the farceswe have seen of late with major layoff’s.
It is that or have your maid/manservant go to buy whatever you need when you are at work.
Report abuse
“Why must we copy the UK or USA, why not the French way. Not only do they not open on a Sunday but close every day for lunch, far more civilised.”
And what would that do to improve commerce and convenience in Jersey, one has to ask?
Report abuse
i live in the uk, and the amount of people who just window shop on a sunday is crazy as they dont seem to have anything better to do (unless the sun shines then everyone heads for the beach)
I have been coming to Jersey (august) for the last 5 years and can always find something to do (walk along the beaches etc) so i dont think sunday trading for your island is a good idea
Report abuse
Well I think as far as Sunday opening is concerned it would be practical in this Island to allow the personal discretion of the business owner or operator to choose whether to open or not. The basic economic factor of supply and demand would very soon sort the sheep from the goats and determine which businesses have a genuine reason for opening and those that do not. As I said above 24hr pub opening in the UK is an example of how the marketplace determined who should or should not do so.
As for internet shopping replacing the hands on experience, how many people out there have ordered something from the internet or a catelogue, waited with bated breath for delivery only to discover on unpacking the object it is not quite what it seemed in it’s photograph!Either, too large or too small, not the quality of finish or material, not quite the same colour you expected,or just plain something else sent in lieau because the one you wanted is “Out of stock” or “Discontinued”!And who wants to see empty towns and shopping centres?
Yes the French way of doing things is very laid back and relaxing, but unfortunately can be infuriating should you encounter it when there is a genuine need for urgency.
And 54 Darren: An example: I am a cannibal, and one Sunday I decide to eat my next door neighbour as the normal roast is too expensive.As my other elderly and infirm neighbour living alone, on what grounds would you seek to rely to prevent yourself suffering the same fate?And as religeous principals and beliefs (i.e.Your neighbour is not a suitable ingredient for any potential meal)are not in your world enforceable by law, on what basis would you in the absense of force seek to defend yourself? All societies have rules or laws and the nature of those laws is established on beliefs normally in the form of religeon.
Report abuse
Simple question for Adrian – Have you ever purchased any item from a shop or coffee house or restauarant or petrol station or pub or newsagents in this island on any Sunday?
If your answer is yes then all of your arguments are pointless and you sir are a hypocrite.
If your answer is no then it is upto the readers here to decide whether they believe you or not.
Report abuse
This is a non-debate.
There is no reason at all why the hours that shops open should be a matter for the States.
And why should shops be different from restaurants, cinemas, leasure centres, farm shops, small shops, tourist attractions, garages, the utilities, TV stations etc etc.
All a load of nonsense that brings the talking shop that is the States into disrepute.
If we don’t need legislation, lets get rid of it. We don’t need laws governing Sunday trading. End of.
Report abuse
Darren I very rarely buy anything on a Sunday. I can’t remember the last time I did this. I try to think of others and the fact that they may prefer to have the day off. By participating in this process you are encouraging businesses to force workers to work on a Sunday. If everyone boycotted Sunday shopping the shops wouldn’t open would they? As I have said before if you can’t fill up with petrol before Sunday there is something wrong. What happened in the old days when nothing was opened on a Sunday how did people manage??
I have asked is there a need to open on Sunday when you have 72 hours per week to shop in? The answer is there is no need is there? So why do it?
If those running a business want to waste their Sunday so be it. However don’t expect those not wanting to work on a Sunday to be cajoled into doing it. It is plain wrong.
As for any non-religious people I presume they don’t take holidays do they? How can they believe in Holy Days when they aren’t religious? If Sunday becomes a normal work day then there is no need for double pay is there as it is just like any other work day is it not? If it wasn’t for religion you won’t have double pay on Sunday or the day off as a rest day would you? There wouldn’t be any need for it.
Maybe the religion scoffers should be thankful for religion which has provided them with weekends off till very recently as a norm. So there you go what has religion ever done for anyone? Answer given everyone holidays away from work. Aren’t you lucky. Is it any wonder that capitalists want religious influences reduced when it is a block to 24/7/365 working and more profit for them?
Special days should therefore be protected to prevent the errosion of family life and a decent period of time from work. Constant 6-7 day a week working is not good for people it will eventually impact on their health in some form or other in my opinion.
Maybe those of a non religious disposition should think about giving their holidays back then as they don’t believe in religion or its holidays? Any chance of this? What do you think Darren?
Report abuse
#55, again I ask, does anyone have proof that it improves commerce, and I mean real hard evidence?
I don’t care if it’s a Sunday or a Wednesday but I think one day when shops are shut and town is quieter would be good. Staff would be guaranteed a day off (as I have mentioned before on previous articles having to negotiate shifts with colleagues right up to the last minute just makes your eventual day off more stressful, knowing in advance that you have that day off is key to relaxing).
We are definitely getting it wrong, all this live to work, live to work, everything available all the time, we think it’s convenient but we don’t realise till it’s too late that it raises stress levels all over. I lived in the UK for decades, I’ve seen 24hr shopping and I’ve seen society just get more and more harrassed and more and more stressed. Jersey really felt different, but I guess it won’t be long before it just feels exactly like the UK.
Report abuse
Steady now lads and lasses,the lure of the Mirage of free choice shimmering in the heat of delusion may be tempting to reach out for, but beware the jobsworth concealed in the sagebrush..
Report abuse
Adrian #22
If Sunday trading is allowed then local internet companies will likely trade on Sunday too in order to remain competitive in terms of lead time. We all know you won’t be happy until all shops and businesses are closed, the market economy is shut down completely and we go back to the dark ages of trading home grown veggies and cows for 5 minutes on the electric meter.
Also don’t use ridiculous statements purporting we all die young because of work stress. The fact is we are all living longer – paid for by easier lives and social welfare from the market economy instead of back breaking subsistence work with long hours and 7 days a week to make ends meet.
I love the way you contradict yourself. You slate businesses for wanting to maximise profits and forever creating new ways of making it easy for us to consume and then you promote the internet as the superior alternative to ‘real’ shops! Isn’t that the whole ingenious point of ecommerce?!
Report abuse
Adrain, Get a job or if you have one do some work!!
Report abuse
“Well done Sue, France is miles better they have a life over there. They don’t pander to big business and finance do they? I find their life style much better for one’s health and well being. They know their neighoburs and aren’t class concious or as possession oriented as the Brits are.”
There is a boat leaving this evening, if you so wish.
Report abuse
Adrian wrote:
“What is good about working on a Sunday? Have people not got better things to do with their time than go to work when they should be spending time with their families? Since when have you seen on head stones “he was a good worker”?”
Adrian has clearly never heard of the word “choice”.
Report abuse
Nick stated that “An example: I am a cannibal, and one Sunday I decide to eat my next door neighbour.”
Does the Constable know about this?
Report abuse
Adrian,
Many people like to take their families or friends out for breakfast on a Sunday. Who are you to suggest that we close these places down thereby losing trade for the proprietors and a pleasant morning out for people whose views are poles apart from yours?
Like I posted before in a previous thread – you can never be wrong and it must be great to be you.
Report abuse
Has anyone even thought that this might be a great opportunity for teenagers to earn a bit more cash covering for the full time staff so they can still have their Sundays off.
More money for the kids, less for their parents to pay out in pocket money, work experience and keeping them off the streets.
Win – win.
To (almost) every problem there is a solution….you just have to exercise your brain a bit!!!
Report abuse
Adrian, what you are really against is freedom of choice.
Report abuse
Jersey nowadays is barely large enough to accommodate a population who all have Sunday off together. Especially when so many feel compelled to do the grand tour of all the far flung points by car, motorcycle, pedal cycle, horse and cart, roller skates or kite buggy.
Many would be happy to go to shops, DIY outlets or garden centres rather than going every Sunday to see if St Catherines breakwater and Corbiere lighthouse are still there.
Those of us lucky enough to have free time during the week know what hell it is at weekends when the entire overcrowded island comes out to play, all at the same time.
The few remaining tourists must surely get the shock of their lives when the natives are released to lay first claim to the best spots.
By the way, Adrian, you might find that there are fewer hours of toil in the normal year if it multiplies out as 24/7/52 rather than 365. A worthwhile reduction from 61,320 to 8,736.
You didn’t by any chance study under the celebrated Jersey teacher whose maxim was (tongue in cheek) “Oneself is never wrong”?
Thats my analysis!
Report abuse
martin I am happy with freedom of choice just as long as it doesn’t cut across others freedom of choice. There is a difference.
Yes darren have your breakfast out if you must but please remember that people amy be having their arms twisted to work on a Sunday. Would this make a difference to your enjoyment of your breakfast, if this was the case, or aren’t you interested in others enjoyment of their Sunday’s?
Free Trader I hope that answers your queries. As per the head stone have you seen one with that inscription on yet or not?
joker as per the cows I presume you heard about the one cow that was registered in a tax haven etc etc then ended up as nine cows with future options to buy more. In other words mickey mouse trading and accounting practices. You can scoff but this is why we are in this mess.
Work related stress is having more of an impact on working life maybe you are unaware of it? Why is it very few even have time to say hello on the way to work these days? Why all the long faces if everyone is sooo happy?
I believe that life expectancy will begin to fall if things carry on getting worse. Unwarrented stress is no good for anyone. Today’s way of life is stressing people more and more, as is working silly and unsocial hours. If you don’t believe me ask a doctor.
You also miss the point businesses aren’t interested in making things easier for people because they are interested in their well being and are concerned for their right to have choice. They couldn’t give a damn about people. They are often only interested in profit regardless of the impact it might have on their own employees.
The internet is good because it can be run semi-automatically meaning a real person is not needed to take the order.
This is the beauty of the internet. It can do away with most of the dross involved with physical shopping, like silly, uninterested poorly paid shop assistants, very little choice, VAT, GST and an owner not interested in their customers because they know they can get away with it.
Report abuse
Joker, I’m pretty sure we’re living longer due to advances in medicine!
Whether or not we are living a better quality of life (just because it’s longer) is well and truly up for debate, I have met many ‘old’ people who would happily of died younger but medicine had a cure for what they had then so they had to wait for ‘old age’ to take them.
What is not up for debate is that as a society we are far more stressed than ever and it is mostly due to our working practices.
Report abuse
BS, actually that’s a great idea. Maybe instead of allowing those that already work 5/6 days a week to earn even more money and run themselves into the ground (and yes they do this and unfortunately some really do need protected from themselves and their greed), why not employ new staff, those that are unemployed? This way we share the wealth.
Report abuse
#70 Martin, I do wonder if Adrian is seeing a slightly larger picture than some on here are. He is maybe aware that opening 7 days a week (as I’ve said before, the Sunday issue is irrelevant to me) ultimately ends up eroding choice for many people.
What is choice in the short-term for many can become a lack of choice for workers in the long-term. Those who think people will have a choice whether or not to work have a very unrealistic view of what employers in today’s society are really like. As for us shoppers, well unfortunately some of society really do need protected from themselves, some will work themselves to death if they are allowed to and some will shop themselves into even more debt. I know we are all adults but it doesn’t mean we are all capable of control over ourselves.
I don’t totally agree with Adrian on this matter, but I believe that he can see what will happen in the future as opposed to just the immediate effects of such legislation.
Report abuse
Adrian – ‘…or aren’t you interested in others enjoyment of their Sunday’s?’
If a person takes employment at, say, Big Verns right now, they will know that it may be a requirement to work some Sundays. This will likely be offset by shiftwork and other days off etc. They are aware of this if they decide to take the job. They are therefore deciding on their own enjoyment of Sundays. What on earth does my interest have to do with it? What on earth gives you the right to take this CHOICE away from others whose circumstances you know nothing of?
Look at how many people disagree with you here. Show some humility and admit you may have miscalculated and got this one wrong.
Report abuse
I stopped contributing to these forums largely due to Adrian. You could spend your life correcting his ‘facts’ and re-interpreting his analyses. And, as you say, at the end of it counterargument just bounces off.
The irony is that I think he’s right about some things.
Good luck with this thread but, as Darren suggests, you’re all wasting your time. You can take a horse to water…
Report abuse
And what of those that don’t share the same sabbath day as you Adrian?
Report abuse
darren all I have tried to do is to point out that we all impact on each other by our own decisions. If everyone was happy to have Sunday’s off then no one would have to work on the rest day except the emergency services would they? However it appears some must do what they want regardless of their choices affecting others maybe adversely. This is pure selfishness in my book.
All I would say to you is would you be prepared to give up your Sunday so that others could enjoy themselves or do you keep your Sunday’s for your own enjoyment? If you expect to do what you want on a Sunday why do others have to do what you want as well? They may all prefer to be surfing, for example on a Sunday, and having a BBQ, instead of serving those selfish individuals who expect someone to serve them whether in a cafe, shop or garage etc.
As you can see things aren’t as black and white as they are made out are they?
If we end up with 24/7 opening it will affect many adversely who may not want to work silly unsocial hours.
At least Leah realises the consequneces of moving along the road to 24/7 working. It appears others can’t.
It is unbelievable that people can’t forgo one day of shopping etc per week. They still have 6 other days to do this on.
R.G.Bougourd Maybe I should have used 24/365 instead, but I used the other as everyone talks in terms of 24/7 now. It was used to illustrate all year working as this is what it is 365 days in a year unless you are unlucky and it is the fourth year when you get bunged an extra day! It wasn’t meant to be taken as a mathematical formula sorry about that.
Report abuse
Adrian 79
Are you actually reading what you are writing???
“If everyone was happy to have Sunday’s off then no one would have to work on the rest day except the emergency services would they?”
Surely the emergency services will be included as “everyone” , i.e. nobody working at all!
And as for your argument “All I would say to you is would you be prepared to give up your Sunday so that others could enjoy themselves or do you keep your Sunday’s for your own enjoyment?”.
Not only is this statement highly “selfish” in it’s own right, but following this rationale I hope you are not in need of the emergency services on a sunday because that would be rather “selfish” of you on to impose on their day of rest!
The world (or Jersey) should not stand still for one day just because you would rather do your own thing for your own enjoyment!
You are arguing about something completely different anyway. This thread is about sunday opening not 24/7/365, all hour shopping ….. you can already do that on the internet. Guess what, there are people at the other end of your keyboard working to process and deliver your order! You must be a bit naive to think they all work 9-5, Mon-fri/Sat.
Report abuse
Adrian is obviously a States member. He’s completely out of touch with the majority of people’s feelings, and is stuck in a time warp
Report abuse
Adrian, I probably wouldn’t have realised but I’ve lived it in the UK. I remember vividly when everywhere was shut on a Sunday and each town had it’s own afternoon, once a week, when it also closed. Businesses coped fine stangely enough because people bought what they needed when the shops were open.
People on here who have agreed with me on this issue (previous articles) have also lived it, that’s why we know we don’t want it here. But too often people don’t realise what they have till they lose it.
People have to live and learn but sometimes it would be nice if they could learn from others’ mistakes instead of only their own.
The usual office working days are Monday to Friday so maybe leave the weekend free for shoppers and let shops close on a Wednesday? Then the shops that are going to lose money due to the overheads of 7-day opening won’t have to lose their money after all. And there will be some, but they’ll probably open at a loss in the hope that business will pick up!
Even better, allow shops to open later 2 nights a week?
Have other possibilities even been considered?
Report abuse
martin asked:
“And what of those that don’t share the same sabbath day as you Adrian?”
Simple. Erect some wires to symbolise a roof.
This is what they did in Hampstead.
Then you can do things that you would not normally be allowed to do on the Sabbath by pretending that you are still indoors.
As many will know this is not a joke, it is one of the most imaginative examples of religious rule bending ever thought up.
Report abuse
Further to people not wanting to work Sundays; between the ages of 17-20 I used to work Sundays and had a day off in the week. Personally I thought it was great, as Sundays are so boring so may as well be at work rather than wasting any other days – all the shops are closed so nowt else to do other than sit in a pub all day. One gets bored of the local ‘entertainment’ ie cliff path walks etc after a couple of decades living here.
Secondly, it meant I had a day off to do my shopping when most of town was nice and quiet. Win-win situation for me, and I would hazard a guess that a lot of single people would have no problem at all with working Sundays, presuming they are not religous. Therefore, I suspect that any stores opening this day won’t have a problem finding staff to volunteer.
Adrian – You say there are 6 other days to do shopping but most people are at work for 5 of those so it leaves one day – hence the shops and carparks are swamped on Saturday as the whole island goes to town the same day.
I’m all for Sunday trading, although it makes no odds to me anyway as these days the vast majority of my purchases are made online, thus avoiding GST, unhelpful assistants, poor choice, overinflated prices etc etc.
I agree with you that we are spending far too much valuable time at work, can’t really imagine anyone in their eightieth year looking back and wishing they’d spent a bit longer working.
Report abuse
The sooner Jersey has Sunday trading, the better.
Leah – “People have to live and learn but sometimes it would be nice if they could learn from others’ mistakes instead of only their own.”
Having the option of allowing all retailers to open their shops on a Sunday is not a mistake, unless you call anti-discrimination, a mistake.
Personally, I work Mon – Fri and very rarely am able to get what I need from the shops during this time, Saturday shopping (when it seems everyone comes to town ) is absolutely manic, and often I am busy doing other things. What is wrong with wanting to see shops open on a Sunday, and giving people the choice to shop when they want, what is wrong with allowing retailers the right to open their shop and make a living when they choose.
The argument that it forces people to work is valid in a very minor number of cases, but does surely not outwiegh the overall utility of Sunday trading, as has clearly been proven around the world in the last 50 years. C’mon Jersey, wake up and get with the program.
Report abuse
60.Adrian
“Maybe the religion scoffers should be thankful for religion which has provided them with weekends off till very recently as a norm. So there you go what has religion ever done for anyone?”
Like Martin Neale, I do not comment much on your posts as it is pointless; but if you remember from our previous entanglements, I am one of those religious scoffers you evidently hate so much. So from the above extract I see that now we owe any time off work to Jesus? Is there no end to that man’s accomplishments? Though I suspect you are just trolling.
Report abuse
1.Magnolia man.
“Nevertheless, there are many more who would prefer to worship the twin gods of B&Q, or even M&S. ”
How about Castor and Pollux?
Report abuse
6.Adrian
Posted July 4, 2009 at 9:10 pm “As far as I am concerned Sunday should be a rest day. 6 days work is more than enough.”
But should this be enforced and imposed on people who would quite like to work if they feel like it?–and how? House arrest?
Report abuse
7 & 8
Jersey Girl
Posted July 4, 2009 at 10:26 pm “i disagree with the sunday trading!! whats that all about, wanting to be like the uk now!!”
So good you said it twice! It’s a matter of choice. I also enjoy a quiet day on Sunday(although retired),-but we should be free to choose either way.
Report abuse
Adrian
Believing life expectancy will begin to fall won’t make it happen. However the facts are that it is increasing and will continue to do so.
I didn’t miss the point about businesses “in making things easier for people because they are interested in their well being and are concerned for their right to have choice.” You did – I stated that eCommerce is a tool for just that and you go and praise it!
Yet again you contradict yourself:- you talk about how automated eCommerce gives humans more free time to do as they please as less people are needed, well what about all those jobs lost because of eCommerce? They are paid similar amounts to the poor shop assistant. Does that not go against your ethos of a job for life for everyone and all paid the same etc? Also I think you’ll find that internet stores and packing staff work the same hours as someone in a shop… there’s just less of them!
Taking your stance into account I’m not surprised you see long faces walking to work – you refuse to find the joy in anything contemporary life has to offer. As for black and white (#79) I think there’s black, white and the world according to Adrian
Leah Holmes
yes medicine is a major contributing factor but how do you think all this R&D is paid for and who pays for the purchasing and administering of medicine and welfare? The market economy does! You think science and technology would have advanced as much as it has without it?
Report abuse
Non-qual, take posts out of context if you want!
I was quite clear that the mistake is moving towards 7 days opening and (eventually) heading towards longer and longer opening hours.
Whether it’s a Sunday or not is irrelevant to me. I even suggested shops close on a Wednesday instead of the Sunday!
Report abuse
Leah Holmes Posted July 9, 2009 at 1:11 pm Non-qual, take posts out of context if you want!
Sorry Leah Holmes but I must pick you up on this. Taking things out of context is exactly how YOU operate on this forum. You have even been known to put words into other peoples mouths.
Report abuse
Out of context?? I will rephrase then to keep with your logical “context”:
Having the option of allowing all retailers to open their shops 7 days a week, or increasing their opening hours if so desire, is not a mistake, unless you call anti-discrimination, a mistake.
Report abuse
martin 78. the Sabbath is on Saturday and is observed by the Jewish religion, not the Christians who observe Sunday.
80. BS Deluxe I was commenting on the fact that there is no need to work on a Sunday unless you work in the emergency services. Hopefully this explains things for you. Yes unfortunately someone could fall ill on a Sunday but this is outside their own personal control is it not? This is why there is a need for the emergency workers to cover Sunday’s. There is no need to open a shop in town selling bric-a-brac is there?
As per my other comment it was about freedom of choice whether you want to work on a Sunday or not no one should be forced to work because someone else wants them to.
All hour shopping I believe leads on from Sunday shopping and working it is in the general direction of 24/365 is it not? I believe the end result will be 24/365 working which I believe is no good to people in the long term.
As per delivering and processing your order you are indeed correct but please remember if the goods come from the Far East they may actually be processed on their Monday! This was the point I was alluding to in my previous post.
I hope this straights things out a bit for you.
Reg good to hear from you again.
86. As per holidays please remember these were ingrained by the Church into western society whether you like it or not. It was the Church that held the capitalists at bay reference Sunday working whether you like it or not. Please refer to the origins of the word holiday to see where it comes from. Do you honestly believe that Sunday wouldn’t have been a work day if everyone was of the aethist persuasion? This was all I was trying to point out.
It doesn’t concern me whether people are atheist or of any other religion. It is the person behind the face that counts.
88. As per Sunday working if those doing the work wish to work let them work on a Sunday. However it is wrong to put undue influence on workers to work on a Sunday because the boss says so. This is what freedom of choice is about whether to or whether not to work on the designated rest day.
90. joker you misunderstand my stance on things trying to brand me a communist because I believe in a fairer tax regime and fairer world for all. This capitalistic scheme is failing the majority and it was only luck that the wheels didn’t come off it completely earlier this year.
Do you see many smiling faces on a Monday morning on the way to work, because if you do you are doing better than me. Most I see are fed up with more stress and extra pressure for little reward. Yes undoubtedly there are some happy bunnies out there but I think their numbers are on the decline. I wonder why? Nothing to do with the faster and faster pace of modern life where you often have to run to keep still?
Report abuse
Leah,
We’ve seen what’s happened to Jersey’s tourist industry – too many decision makers over the years, whose minds are stuck in halcyon days of old.
The quicker Sunday trading is placed in the hands of retailers the better. They can make decisions for themselves then, rather than being dictated to.
Report abuse
I am quite clear on what you wrote thank you, Adrian. Maybe you should have a look at it yourself! Can you not see the double standards of your own argument!! Unbelievable.
You talk of “pure selfishness” because other people may work to service others on a Sunday and yet you ask “All I would say to you is would you be prepared to give up your Sunday so that others could enjoy themselves or do you keep your Sunday’s for your own enjoyment?”. This implies that you only care about you’re own enjoyment on a Sunday and would not be prepared to help others enjoy theirs. Do you now see the contradiction?
You do realise that there are other people who actually volunteer their time for this purpose because they like to help and serve and not just get paid!
You always twist your distorted views to suit your argument whereas most others sensibly offer the larger perspective and can see both sides to an argument……you are rather blinkered!
Obviously ALL internet sites are based in the Far East…..NOT! Besides, knowing the working culture in the Far East, your argument is ridiculous because they work VERY long hours on VERY little pay.
You certainly do not understand or cannot accept that, so far, the majority of posters on this forum want Sunday Trading even if you don’t.
You know what, do us all a favour and stay in your little cupboard giving your excessive viewpoints on all the bad things in life whilst the rest of us happily shop, visit pubs, restaurants or any other businesses open on a sunday as we please….enjoying our lives!
Those that CHOOSE to work will be unaffected and no doubt delight in having another day off work which may suit their own personal circumstances better than having a Sunday off.
Report abuse
Regarding your last comment 94.
You show me someone smiling on their way to work at any time and I’ll show you a mad person
It’s WORK……..not play, besides you have absolutely NO idea why they are not smiling (unless of course you have conducted some kind of survey to come to your conclusion). They could be hungover, their footy team has lost or the weather is simply dull.
Report abuse
94. Adrian
“As per holidays please remember these were ingrained by the Church into western society whether you like it or not”
“The Lord hath delivered him into my hands”
(T.H.Huxley)–
So as well as having to thank Jesus for a bit of time off work, we now also have to thank the Church for “Holy-days”. Do you not realise that the Church took over everyone else’s achievements and claimed the credit for them? I am sure people throughout history have managed to take a day off work without thinking, “O we have to credit the Church (when it eventually gets invented about two or three thousand years or so from now), with the fact that I can put down my mallet and chisel and sit down for an hour or two and drink a pot of beer in between building pyramids?
Report abuse
#92 Darren, now I know you’re talking nonsense, I’m the one always having to pick people up for claiming I’ve said stuff I never said, even had to get a post removed for doing it so badly, was the complete opposite of something I would have said.
I don’t know what your problem is here apart from maybe that some people actually disagree with you (that shouldn’t be an issue frankly) but having lived 24hr shopping that is where I have formed my opinion from, i.e. EXPERIENCE!
I didn’t mind when the UK first moved to 7-day a week shopping but I can see the bad effects of it now and so can many others.
Don’t know where your opinion comes from but plenty of people in Jersey have no long-term knowledge of 7-day a week shopping (it’s only ever a novelty so seems really good) so it’s good to get a point of view from those that do.
And again, market forces being affected negatively by being shut one day a week? We have still to have ACTUAL evidence. Maybe I’ll go and buy a kettle on Saturday because I need one, and then buy a kettle again on Sunday just because the shop is open? I have already asked for evidence on here but as yet it hasn’t been forthcoming, yet people keep tossing around the opinion that another day of opening will automatically help businesses. I know that there will be smaller businesses that will lose out (not enough trade to cover the extra overheads) and I’m more concerned for them than the M&S and B&Qs of this world.
Report abuse
Beaumont, I totally agree with you about tourism. As for putting situations like this in the hands of the retailers, I’m not so sure. It should be in the hands of the Government, retailers AND those that will be most affected by the change (staff, people living in the area, and even polling tourists wouldn’t be the worst idea, many seem to like the peace and quiet of a Sunday). Also, when leaving it up to retailers you run the risk of bigger retailers bullying their way through with a proposal just because of their size when it is a proposal that may benefit them but negatively affect smaller retailers.
I know few bosses who can be remotely trusted to do what is in the best interests of their staff, and I am in no doubt that people will be bullied into working the extra day. The retailers will make the decision purely based on money and would make that decision even if they knew fine well it would affect their staff or the public negatively.
People use loaded words like ‘progress’ and ‘moving with the times’ when in fact non-emotive words like ‘change’ and ‘alteration’ would be far more suitable. What is progress in one aspect of life is often the complete opposite in another.
I would ‘happily’ shop any day of the week but at least I’m able to see that there is two sides to this story and not just the convenience for me!
Report abuse
Non-qual, ‘discrimination’ is somewhat of a ludicrous word to throw into this mix.
There is nothing discriminatory as long as all shops of the same type are allowed to open at the same times. There will be smaller businesses that will lose money if they open on a Sunday, but it will become an issue of ‘do we lose more by not opening?’, they are possibly being discriminated again I guess, if you really push the meaning of the word.
Report abuse
what ya all moaning at? shop 24/7 on the net ,much more cheaper too!geta life folks!
Report abuse
Ok Leah Holmes, calm down dear.
I think you will find that you and Adrian (as usual) are the ones disagreeing with almost everybody else not just myself.
You put words into my mouth on another thread and you twisted my comments out of context to suit your own argument. I called you out on this when you did it. This is a tactic employed many times by both yourself and Adrian on this site.
I welcome differing opinions and a good debate, however time and again you are the one who doesn’t like people disagreeing with you. Can you honestly not see that you’re doing this again?
I will leave it to others to make their own minds up about the pair of you and what your motives are.
I await your inevitable reply.
Report abuse
Leah Holmes – “There is nothing discriminatory as long as all shops of the same type are allowed to open at the same times.”
That statement is a contradiction. Of course discrimination exists if the same type of shops are allowed to open at the same times. What about other shops of a different type, ie those being discriminated against. That is the very essence of discrimintation. Open the rules up for everyone to decide how they wish to operate.
That’s like saying that the local housing rules aren’t discriminatory so long as those quailified locals are all allowed to rent/buy locally qualified houses.
Report abuse
Leah Holms
Its a fact of life, we have the choice. If a boss wants their employees to work on a Sunday its the employee who has the last word. All they have to do is say “stick your job where the sun don’t shine”. The boss will only be glad and accept the resignation if the employee was badly suited to the job.
Bosses look after good employees, its how they become successful. I know the unions will not agree but some employees are useless, others are worth paying well and looking after.
People forget when they accept a job they have a moral responsibility towards the betterment of the company, not only for the boss but their fellow employees also, its called pulling together. If the company needs to open on a Sunday to stay viable and competitive then the employees need to facilitate that or the company folds and they all lose their jobs.
Adrian
I see you are still striving for a utopia where we will all magically have the same values and morals. You really do need to stop banging your head against the wall before you do yourself a damage, but good luck anyway.
Oh, and what about the vicars and priests, will they have to work on a Sunday too ?
Report abuse
Darren, I don’t need people to make their mind up because they have the facts here in print. You got personal just because I don’t agree with you and it’s really sad that you feel the need to be like that. The rest of us enjoy healthy debate that for the most part stays non-personal and doesn’t get petty.
Every upside has a downside and both should be considered, NOT just the side that benefits.
Non qual, it doesn’t steal trade from anyone if the same types open at the same time. So how is it really discrimination? And, in case Darren doesn’t realise it, I actually ask that as a question because I might learn something from your opinion on the matter!
Report abuse
Leah Holmes – please quote where I got personal? Looks like you’re doing it again.
The rest of us? I’m sorry I didn’t know there was a them and us theme to this website. Thanks for bringing that fact to my attention.
Report abuse
I have to agree with darren / reg etc. I pretty much gave up posting on here a while ago as Adrain and Leah seem to feel the need to post on every single story and often many many times banging on about the same thing.
For Adrian it is always down with GST / the rich / 11ks / the finance industry. Weren’t things much better years ago and attempting to paint his views as taking the high moral ground versus those advanced by anyone else.
For Leah everything has to be related back to some personal experience (yawn) to justify her view on any topic even if the connection is either so mundane most anyone could make it or only indirectly related to the topic. I don’t mean to be a bully but scatter-gun posts don’t contribute to a debate its the equivalent of the pub bore everyone avoids. I usually keep my own counsel in the pub : )
Report abuse
Darren, I would say it got a bit personal with your “OK Leah calm down ‘dear’” which was a tad patronising
Leah and I often share very differing opinions but as she points out this is indeed ‘healthy debate’ and I enjoy reading her posts.
Anyway, could we perhaps get back to the subject of Sunday trading..?
Report abuse
Perhaps Leah and Adrian would be better suited to their own forum……I too can’t be bothered to read most of their comments anymore which is a shame because sometimes they do have something good to say.
I do find it strange that Leah has experienced virtually every topic we talk about. Perhaps she has led a very hard life or simply lives in a different world
And Leah just because you may have “experience” in something it doesn’t mean that everybody must follow your advice.
I’ll just put it down to you being unlucky for having so many bad experiences.
Report abuse
BS, I’ve had whole weeks of being away a number of times!!!!
And the topics of late have all been quite mundane and normal. I have lived a fair bit but I think with the recent stories you’d struggle to find someone who couldn’t weigh in?
Report abuse
Something you said BS, just because I’m giving my opinion from my experience I’m not actually suggesting you follow my advice, I’m just giving my experience (that’s not advice please note). If you give your opinion I don’t assume you consider yourself to be absolutely correct or that I should change my opinion, just that it is YOUR opinion that I enjoy reading.
Maybe it’s just the way I write, I’m quite direct, that’s unlikely to change cause I need to write like that for work. I just enjoy reading the replies and seeing what others experiences have been and I learn a lot about Jersey on here.
But yeah, I have been quite unlucky. I’ll try and be careful not sound too bossy or argumentative though.
Report abuse
Leah
I do appreciate your comments and you’re very mature response to my post.
I must apologise for putting you in the same bracket as Adrian because he does
actually take the moral high ground every time and feels everyone should do as he says…..
Report abuse
PJG vicars and priests try and look after their flock on Sunday and it won’t exactly help them if business forces people to work on the rest day will it? What is wrong with having one day set aside from work per week? Is society so obsessed with material things and self gratification that it can’t let one day pass without having to monetize it just as with the other six days?
darren I don’t put words in your mouth I have just pointed out that there is more to things that at first meets the eye thats all. As with all debate there is two sides to every story.
Al For Adrian it is always down with GST / the rich / 11ks / the finance industry.
Well Al what do you think affects the majority over here the most? Maybe you don’t think any of the above has any impact but I do hence this is why these topics get mentioned quite a lot here.
BS Deluxe thats a bit harsh on Leah she is allowed her opinions as well as you.
As for myself I never tell anyone what to do, I just speak as I see things, if people don’t like it then thats their choice isn’t?
What’s all this about taking the moral high ground? I have never claimed this. I have tried to point out that things are going downhill due to an errosion of morals and ethics. You may disagree with this, but this is what I believe is the problem with things today. To me it appears that too many people today want to do what they want to do, when they want to do it, and to hell with how it may affect others, as long as they get what they want, that is. This I believe is why there are so many unhappy people around now.
I just suggest that things could be better, if they were done differently, there is a difference. I have only pointed out what I believe are obvious flaws with today’s ways of doing things.
Report abuse
Leah, I think you had a similar paper round to me in Londonderry circa 1975
Report abuse
@108 Al…. spot on.
I can’t be bothered to read the massive multiple replies and that is a shame because many people make good points.
Adrian + Leah, maybe you should direct your vast knowledge and heartfelt conviction towards a wider audience….perhaps a blog.. a few pearls of wisdom on twitter (though you are limited to 140 characters…) I feel other people are missing out.
Report abuse