Five-year rule to be tightened
Thursday 16th July 2009, 3:01PM BST.
The Chief Minister has warned that the rules on 'unqualified' workers are to be tightened
BUSINESSES are about to find it harder to get permits to employ people who have not lived here for five years, Chief Minister Terry Le Sueur told the States this week.
Senator Le Sueur said that there would be a tightening up on numbers and closer scrutiny of applications for unqualified licences issued to businesses looking to renew their Regulation of Undertakings arrangements.
Agreements between employers and the States on job numbers are normally renewed on a three-yearly basis.
Deputy Kevin Lewis had said that 900 Islanders were registered as unemployed and he wanted to know if there would be a reduction in the number of unqualified staff employed in unskilled work.
The Deputy argued that with high levels of unemployment, action was required to give long-term residents the opportunity to secure work in areas such as fulfilment.
Senator Le Sueur said that there would be a presentation for States Members later in the month on the Regulation of Undertakings Laws, but he gave an undertaking that action would be taken to tighten up on the number of unqualified staff who can be employed.
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And what about J-cats? Is this area also going to be tightened up in order for unemployed white collar workers to also gain employment?
This is long overdue.
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Nellie. I hate to mention it but J-cats exist for reason. Look how many locals have their university education paid for and choose to stay in the UK. We need J-Cats for the skills unavailable in the island.
And with regards to the unskilled jobs – most unemployed locals would consider these jobs as below them so we’re looking at a serious problem in that sector.
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and still outside contractors will come and go,
has there ever been any prosecutions under this law?
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Well said Nellie. If we have 900 unemployed then the unskilled jobs have should have a few hundred applicants each, and no more outside workers should be allowed until the figure of 900 dramatically reduces.
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About time you started looking after the locals !!!
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Well done Nellie, Lets make a quick sweeping statement for variety. The hospital employ significant amount of staff as J’s.
This won’t change a thing in finance if where I work couldn’t employ non quals we would have to close down
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Annie, do you think that the 900 vacancies are going to be filled by locals at the same wage as the “outsiders” are do it?
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Nellie & Annie – well said, this law has been flouted since it’s inception, just look at the building trade.
Kay – you are right J cats do exist for a reason but this is also being abused. Mostly in finance where applications are made to Housing for J cats to fill roles that supposedly cannnot be filled locally. In truth many financial institutions don’t even attempt to recruit locally. Or worse still if they do, they will go through the motions having already selected a candidate from outside of the island. A friend of mine who is a local and works for a bank applied for the vacant position of head of his department. He was suitably qualified and interviewed but did not get the job. He later discovered that accommodation had been sourced for the sucessful applicant ( non local ) before the application period had even closed.
We should stop non quals licenses in all cases except where it is conclusively proven that a local candidate cannot be found. J cats should also be scrutinised and why are J cats now being issued with no end date? they used to be for 5 years and the idea was that during that time a local would be trained to replace them. Not possible for a doctor but certainly possible in finance.
We have people coming here on unlimited J cats living in subsidised or free accommodation for 10 years and then achieving full local quals and buying a house with the money they haven’t spent on rent. I know of one J cat who lives rent free and bought a house with his J cat which he renovated and sold at a huge profit, this is abusing the system.
Put locals first.
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Martin (7) I see what you mean but why should people like us who work and pay social security support those who think themselves above working in shops, restaurants or fields. A few weeks on unemployment benefit fine, but after that someone unemployed should be be offered a job in a field/shop etc or told they have no more benefit.
If you want unemployment benefit you just walk in to social security, tell them your unemployed fill in some forms and tell them you went to a job agency and you get £90 / week. It way too easy at the moment.
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What is a J cat? im not form Jersey i live in the UK, I read your news pages with interest but havnt come across this befor. Please could someonr explain. Thanks
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8 Fat Bob – Spot on – I have worked in the finance industry for 20 years and have seen so many examples of the situation you describe.
Some J-cats of course are required for specialist areas but in my experience local people could fill at least 75% if not more of these positions. The finance industry would certainly not shut down if we enforced this stringently – in fact we would benefit by the motivation it would give to local people who have given up hope of progressing in their careers.
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I am a employee from the UK, I have a degree and a professional qualification in the area I work, but I do not have a J- Cat, I wish I did.
You locals need to understand that not all of us “unqualified employees” get it easy. I have lived here for 3 years, have never had any subsidies on rent, or any kind help from the states or my employer. I pay your highest tax rate (20%), and have just had to complete Jury service, so I am defiantly making my contribution to the Island.
What are you giving me?
Maybe if the cost of living and buying a house over here wasn’t so over priced your precious locals wouldn’t feel the need to remain in the UK after being awarded a degree. Overseas you can get a decent job (with a degree) where the wages allow you to have decent standard of living. Over here unless you have a money tree at the bottom of your garden, or parents willing to help you out new graduates don’t stand a chance!
You locals have it easy, maybe if the unemployed actully tried to help themselves and retrain or did some of the unskilled work you wouldn’t have this problem. Everybody has to start somewhere.
So all of you unemployed stop being so precious and take up the unskilled jobs, that would be what I shall do if I am (god forbid) made redundant.
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Fat Bob- whats the point of putting locals first if they are not up to the job?
Why do you think they recruit from outside? It’s because better candidates can be found elsewhere rather than “local” – businesses need to make a profit so will source the best candidate for the job irrespective of where they are born. More profits made for a company then more investment into the island so “locals” will gain in that respect.
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12 Frenchie – This is simply not true – time and again I have seen local candidates passed over when they were perfectly capable and in many cases far more experienced than the imported newcomers. Some financial institutions lay off staff in the UK or overseas and redeploy them to Jersey. They go through the motions of advertising and interviewing locally but they have already awarded these outsiders the jobs – they are definitely generally not better candidates – the employers are simply saving by not having to make redundancy payouts. Some of these people are woefully inadequate and the local people are “carrying” them.
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Comment 10 John – Jersey has different categories of people who have different employment and housing rights.
Locals and those having completed the 12 year qualifying period are A-H, essentially employed are J cat, rich people who buy their way in are 11K and the rest who were not born here and have not completed the 12 year period of qualification are non qualified.
J cats enjoy almost the same rights as someone born here, they can work in the same jobs as locals and rent or buy many ( but not all ) of the same properties, the exceptions being A-H properties which are reserved for locals and people who have lived here for over 12 years continously – phew hope this makes sense.
Comment 13 Frenchie – “whats the point of putting locals first if they are not up to the job?
Why do you think they recruit from outside? It’s because better candidates can be found elsewhere rather than “local”
A totally logical argument and the one used by said businesses to justify their practices. Sadly not true, you have to understand that the amounts of money made by finance is so great that the cost of housing and relocating an expat is negligible compared to the overall profit. There is no investment in local talent and in many cases no sucession policy whereby a J cat will train a local replacement. I’ve worked in finance all my life and have seen this time and again.
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am totally disgusted with this jobs for locals where the rest of us are treated less than second class citizen you can have a job but only if its not a job a locals doesn’t wants maybe we should just become slaves or work in the mines if you are here less than five years regardless if you have paid tax you get nothing from this island even if you want to start your own business and would employ someone else out of work but the island says no cause you haven’t been here five years . (guess most will say there is a boat and a plane of the rock in the morning )
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In a ideal world all Jersey residents would fill vacant job roles, as would the residents of every country or island around the world. In this day and age thats not going to be possible, some individuals in Jersey need to stop displaying these xenophobic Enoch Powell islander comments and grow up. The world is a much smaller place these days and the quicker that some people realise that Jersey is no longer some Potato picking, dairy producing island the better.
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The only way you will get locals who are out of work and on benifits into manual labour is to sort the social security situation out, We live in a society where a lot of people think there too good for the job, well a job is a job! a job puts you back into society where you are putting a bit back to the island rather than taking from it. The Polish work rather hard to earn money, why cant a lot of locals do this! If you talk to a lot of migrant workers they are working all the hours they can get not just in one job but many and yes they are paying back to society through tax, in my eyes if you want money you work for it! if you want a house you work for it. Sort the handouts out and things may change and we wouldnt be talking about this! I do know of a lot of young and older people who want handouts just so they dont have to work and they can go out and play at the weekend, its us the taxpayer are paying for this so they can be lazy and let others do the working. to me thats not fair. Also stop the impression that having a child as a single parent is a way to dodge work and get a house for nothing. its not fair on us or them.
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In times of crisis, ignorant governments tighten rules and regulations – in fact they shoudl be relaxing them. NO employer should be subject to the 5 year rule; it prevents an organisation operating at its optimum (impossible to argue against this theory) – and it is in everyones best interest that Jersey business operates as effectively as possible. Protectionism is a discredited joke – as are the politicians who propose it.
People always argue that Jersey is a special case – but economics always finds the truth and weak policy = weak business.
If local people find it hard to find work, we should follow another well established ‘economic truth’:
dont give hand outs – give help ups
Read the thoughts of Andrew Carnegie (Wikipedia) and you will understand. I think our ‘leaders’ read too much Winnie The Pooh
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Once again I find myself reading views expressed above, both sides of which have a degree of validity.
As someone born in Jersey at a time before Finance was the major industry on the Island, but who is of ex-colonial/Irish/Scottish and English military stock, my sympathies lie with “locals” (A definition in which I include not just Jersey born individuals, but also those who through perserverence and ability have complied with the Island’s prevailing regulations and have over a lengthy period of qualification more than earned their acquired residential status)
However I have no time for people who seek to abuse the Island’s prevailing system and that includes employers who use supposed “Skills shortages” amongst locals as an excuse to relocate people from other less flourishing parts of their international operations. Like Nellie Macon I too have a long career in the finance industry (Commencing 1972) both locally, in the City, and internationally, and I probably am unique in the number of banks (leading and otherwise) finance houses and law firms I have worked for, or with, over the years.I can like her vouch for the fact that there have been jobs advertised locally where there has very obviously been absolutely no intention of employing a “Local”, no matter how experienced, to the advertised role. Another scam is to make the job description so specific that someone who has no prior experience of that organisation’s systems and internal practices has no chance of demonstrating “qualifying experience”.
What is also apparent in those situations is the failure of our local authorities here to ask of those organisations, who have in a lot of these instances been operating locally for several years, why no locally residentially qualified staff have been trained up for that type of role if there was a known requirement? failure to give a satisfactory response to that enquiry should at the very last resort (i.e. no obvious existing local candidate who could in realistic time be trained up for the role) lead to a strictly enforced five year J category licence being issued on the understanding that any individual brought in would be aware at the outset that they would be required to train a suitable local replacement and would only take the job on on the understanding that five years means “Five years”.
I would point out to those who feel “locals” are being very unfair to those coming in to the Island, that second generation locally born individuals (Where both parents and all grandparents are locally born)have at present to apply for a work permit to work in the EEC countries, including the UK, and are subject to controls applicable in the other Channel Islands when applying for jobs there, so availability of local jobs is very important to that sector of our community as is career progression.
During my career despite having worked in a fairly senior capacity in both London and Jersey I was constantly aware of this going on, and a certain attitude in London in particular that all local staff in some way were snatched from the potatoe fields and over promoted into roles well beyond their cabilities even if offered training! At the same time there were in the early years some cases of local nepotism that would probably have justified that arguement, but I do also have to say that local primary and secondary education here is head and shoulders above the UK public sector equivalent at present, and there were always local individuals even in my day who have been proved to be extremely capable, with a much greater understanding of the world beyond the UK and our historical relationship with it, than is apparent in the majority of their UK counterparts.
Living on local benefits I am certain is not the bed of roses it is portrayed to be by some of those commenting above, as is the case in the UK also. There are also some terrible generalisations made in this respect normally by people who are not party to confidential medical information unlike the authorities who administer these schemes.
And there will always be jobs in any community that are not locally popular and will be open to incomers for precisely that reason.The people who do come in to take on those roles should be valued and be subject the same rights with regard to living standards as those already here. With regard to staying however the same rules should apply as to all other job categories where outside labour is being brought in.
In summary in my experience two things make the world a better place, cooperation is always more constructive and productive than confrontation, and if we could eliminate hypocracy from our thinking the human race would achieve much more.
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When all is said and done! Having been born in the UK and now married to a local my first job in Jersey was in 1982. Jersey is a very very different place now than then. The glut of commercial jobs have gone from the island (hotel/general admin and blue collar) that existed way back then! Over a period of time the States seem to have concentrated on the Finance Sector, rightly or wrongly, which leads to the train of thought “all your eggs in 1 basket” but lets not go there, thats for another forum.
My point being, historically the migrant population in Jersey then (Irish/Scots/English/Welsh/Portuguese) had a variety of jobs they could go for and somewhow today’s local generation believe this is still the case. This is not, all fall foul of the 5 yr rule etc etc….. Is this fair? On one hand I beleive it is as an example, if the UK had this rule they would not be in the sticky sitation they are in now with voters going to the BNP due to high unemployment and a feeling of local jobs for local people (chuck em out attitude). On the other hand, I can see the arguements against it. There are jobs (Finance) in the island that non locals who have lived here for a couple of years to 5 yrs and would do very well in those positions. Unfortunately ED and Manpower stand in their way. The employers use the 5 yr rule to slide someone under the net from the UK and hey ho uv got an additional person/car/non working spouse and potentially 1 or more children in the island, and the other still looking to improve their life/skills struggling. Thats where I see the unfairness, not created solely by the states saying no but by the employers being underhand in their recruitment.
I previously worked for an employer (UK based HQ) who told me to go through the motions of advertising internally and externally for a business consultant min period 6 weeks then close it, then file that we had no qualified island candidates (I actually joint interviewed and 2 were excellent). My Director /HR already had the role filled – thats wrong!
Jersey is very much a different place in employment and not all for the better.
In retro-I would love jersey to be the place I remember when I was in my twenties, but lifes not like that and time moves on, I think some peoples attitudes to “migrant workers” needs to have changed with it. There are some lovely people here serving us in our local restaurants/bistros/pubs/winebars and clubs who are from mainland europe, we should embrace them for who they are and what they do – I did it when I got here (hall porter/barman etc) your not any more lesser a person than anyone else no matter whether you sit behind a desk or serve on……
O how Id like the old Jersey back, the buzz of evening/weekend tourism and entertainment, town over run with couples/families all sun burned but having a lovely time(even in pain lol), all the hotels (mostly all gone now) fit to burst, q’ing outside your local before 1100 on a Sunday to get in for the 2 hours n do your Thrift, going to Sands on a Friday night then The splash on a Saturday and having to walk back as you couldnt get a taxi – ah happy days. Alas its all gone now, but Jersey is still a fine place to live you just have to know who and why and you all will be rose.
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Very well said Nick.
9 Annie.
That is completely untrue. My fiancee was recently made redundant having worked in finance all her working life. She tried for another finance job but they are few and far between right now so we asked for income support/unemployment benefit until she found a job….nothing, nada, squat! We’ve both paid our taxes and soc sec for many years to help others in this situation. To make matters worse soc sec still wanted to charge 6% of her last salary even though she has no income!! Scandalous! She has now found a temporary job in a packing warehouse just so the soc sec contributions will be reduced. The ironic thing is her new employer looked at her CV and thought she was taking the mick wanting to work in a warehouse…they almost dismissed her until she explained the reasons.
Why can’t any other non-employed scroungers on handouts do the same?
13 Frenchie.
believe it or not Jersey is an international offshore finance centre. You will find there are a lot more locally qualified “experts” in finance than you give credit for. offshore centres have their own regulations (including taxation) to follow as well as international regulations….do you think all onshore “essentials” are aware or trained up in these? No, they have to learn the way things are done offshore when they get here.
I would more accurately state the answer is “cheaper” employees can be found outside the island not “better”!!
12 Anon
your predicament is certainly not exclusive to “non-locals”. I and many others “locals” are in the same situation ourselves. Besides, having a degree in something does not necessarily mean you are more qualified than someone else for a role! You not having a J-Cat simply means you are not “essential” for employment.
Your comment “What are you giving me?” says it all. Please advise what it is we owe you? We have already given you a job and somewhere safe to live otherwise if if was that terrible why are you here?
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Well done Stephen Davids and James! I could not have said it better myself.
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come back enoch powell and long live the bnp
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Reading up on the crime it seems to me its mostly natives of jersey who are doing all the drugs crimes!glass houses and all that!
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If I’m a major employer on the island, ie a large bank, I’ll employ who I want. End of!
If the locals don’t like it then tough I’ll move elsewhere and what jobs the locals have been doing will be lost.
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26. reality check – If you were indeed part of a large financial institution you wouldn’t leave simply because the 5 year rule was finally enforced and you were actually having to obey the law and the essence of the law – Jersey is the jewel in the crown of many of these major institutions – they close down other branches but retain their Jersey branches – why? Obviously they are making loads of money out of Jersey, so being forced to employ competent local people and train them up isn’t too much of a price to pay is it?
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Nick (20) ended with the comment
“…if we could eliminate hypocracy(sic) from our thinking the human race would achieve much more.”
Not being sure what he really meant, I googled it. I found “hypocracy” in the Urban Dictionary.
It came up with:
What Democracy turns into when all of the politicians in your country are liars.
When no party/President that wins the election manages to keep its/his own ideology, and instead, keeps changing it every time it/he feels like it, that’s no democracy. That’s hypocracy.
A democracy governed by hypocrites.
Are any or all of these what Nick meant?
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Interesting… do all major employers in the island make use of such colloquial English? As for the decision as to whether the bank would relocate, that would surely be a matter for the board, not for you? NJ.
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Businesses would much rather employ locals: better retention, lower/no accommodation benefits paid, no difficulties with J cats or Regulation of Undertakings, etc.
I think the reason more locals aren’t employed is mostly attitude. A senior employee of a large bank recently said that there was an interesting difference between locals and non-locals who worked for him: despite the current climate, locals rolled in at nine and left at five while the non-locals worked longer and worked harder while at work. When it comes to redundancies, guess who will go first.
While clearly some people (local and non-local) are passed over or made redundant unfairly, the good will out. The less good seem to want to blame non-locals for their problems. Success or failure should be based on ability and work ethic. Many locals seem to think the world owes them a living.
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‘J-Cats exist for a reason’… really?
I know a J-Cat who came over here to get experience in a particular area. She couldn’t possibly have been the best candidate for the job because she hasn’t worked in this area of her profression before and actually took the position to try and get herself into this area of work! As it turns out she has been here over 6 months and there hasn’t been any work for her to do in the area for which she was employed.
So not only is there no work for her, she isn’t even qualified for the job. Is there someone this kind of thing should be reported to?
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Should have said, I speak as someone who does not qualify for J-Cat status (my job probably isn’t important enough for States Members to consider) but my employer tried and failed to find anyone with my bizarre mix of skills and actually stumbled across me by accident.
This rule will potentially make it harder for my employers to keep employing me even though there are J-Cats (my friend can’t be the only one) not even being used for what they were brought here under the pretense of!
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bs deluxe(22)
glad to hear your fiancee has got a job.
i find it strange that she owes social as her employer would of being taking the deductions and passing it on to social.
i am no expert here, but it sounds like something is wrong .
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Michael, I see both locals and non-locals that work long hours and work very hard, and some of both that do the opposite. The problem is that the locals are trying to make (and/or maintain) a life HERE, and to get a life means they can’t work all the hours that God sends. The non-locals that I know, on the other hand, are working as long hours as possible and intentionally giving up the next few years to earn as much as possible to make a house and a life for themselves back home in the near future. Locals could give up the next few decades and still not earn enough to build a similar quality of life here! Never mind that they would have lost all their friends due to never seeing them.
It’s great that people are willing to work long hours and I am not for the 9-5 attitude but you cannot expect those that plan to live here for the rest of their lives to entirely give up their life for work because they need to actually live here in Jersey. They have family they need to see, friends they need to keep in touch with and they may well have charitable activities to be involved with. They cannot be expected to put their life on hold as their non-local colleagues are because when they come to stop working ridiculous hours they will simply have no life to go back to!
I’m struggling to put into words what I mean but I hope you get the gist.
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I think that companies should have the right to choose anyone with good skills and professional qualifications. The result of this is “efficiency”, “high-standard” and “quality”.
The finance industry is full of people who are half-incompetent, half-educated and lazy.
This is only a personal point of view.
Local people should be privileged and be pushed to education, to achieve more than A-Levels!
At the end of their professionnal courses, they should be promised a good job, with an attractive salary and benefits to ensure they stay here.
The ones who leave the island for UK are paid by the States…We end up losing our best elements.
5 YEARS is enough! If someone manages to stay and live on the island for more than 3 years is really brave if we consider the cost of living, the taxes, and the lack of entertainment!
Jersey is a very nice place to be but the efforts should be made on EDUCATION, diversity of courses and degrees and why not, thinking of opening a University! This would give more options??
There is so much contradictions over here that I would not know where to start.
Best of luck to everyone
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Thanks DB 33.
We found out by fluke because that’s exactly what I thought. However, when we asked for some support from social security (and were refused because I am still in employment regardless of the fact that our bills now exceed my sole income) they told us we had better sort out our social security contributions otherwise we will get a large bill at the end of the year!
They were very “kind” and offered to waive 3 months contributions …. how very nice of them!
I now have the utmost contempt for Social Security and anyone who is on benefits unnecessarily….especially those who have never contributed to the system!!
Please can someone remind me why we pay into this system when we cannot benefit in times of need.
Crazy!
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So here is a conundrum for you, a non local lad I know has just had a baby with a local girl, he can’t find work because of the 5 year rule and so she claims benefit for the pair of them, so by having the 5 yr rule we are stopping someone who wants to support his family doing so, now if he married her he would be ok, but they can’t afford to at this time. now to add insult to injury they have been given a states property (in her name) but because they are not working social are carpeting, new cooker washing machine etc so how much has the 5 yr rule cost us as tax payers in this instance!!!
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37. Bewiildered – There’s nothing to stop this young man working – he’s just supposed to be restricted to various categories for 5 years (ie agriculture, hospitality etc.
In practice however it doesn’t appear as though there is any policing of the regulations and people appear to be able to come straight off the boat and work wherever they want.
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Leah:
The senior employee in question wasn’t talking about ridiculous hours. He was talking about doing more than the bare minimum.
Since non-locals have to pay at best the same cost of living while they’re here (and it is likely to be higher due to higher rents and travel costs), I assume your argument refers mainly to property prices acting as a disincentive, which is an interesting point.
Re ‘9 to 5’ culture, it’s about choice. If you want to progress, you have to do more than the minimum because you’re competing with others. If you want to work 9 to 5 and no more, no problem, but you are less employable than someone who goes the extra mile and you should not complain about this. If you want to be more employable, do quality work and put in an extra hour or two.
Incidentally, going to extra mile hurts work-life balance just as much for non-locals as locals, whatever their future plans.
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Bewildered, I don’t understand that, if they really wanted to get married then frankly it costs hardly anything! If what they want is the big, glitzy wedding then yeah they need thousands but a quick, quiet wedding will cost very little. So little that someone could pay for it for them as a wedding present! ‘Can’t afford to get married’ usually means ‘don’t want to’.
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re 30- Michael Neal- Yes your comments are spot on. Plus as a director in a bank ( in a previous life!) I can confirm Michael’s comments re local and non local attitude or approach to work.
In addition some HR depts were reluctant to employ so called ” locals” as having invested a lot of money to train them with prof exams etc that the ” locals” often upped sticks to go travelling thus leaving the company in the lurch and having to re train staff . The “locals” prob feel that they go and travel in the knowledge that they can return home and easily pick up another job in the finance sector. Non -locals seem to have a better work ethic.
Just my opinion based on a lot of experience!
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As a director of a small business I have always looked to employ local people however when I needed an assistant and received no replies to my advertisements I had to apply to employ someone from outside the Island.
Given Le Main’s comments it wil be interesting to see what happens after 3 years. Do I now have to sack my employee? Having invested 3 years in my assistant do I then have to start again with someone else.
As usual I suspect that they are thinking about larger companies and not the poor old small business with 2 or 3 people.
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Forgive me for asking, but how on earth are adults supposed to live here for 5 years without being employed? It sounds like a round-about way of preventing immigration without arousing too much suspicion to me.
People are going to leave the island whether there are foreign workers in Jersey or not – there are simply more options elsewhere. Foreign workers either get jobs here because they are more suitable than the locals being interviewed or because the locals don’t even bother applying for these jobs. Personally I would much prefer to have jobs done by capable foreign workers than incapable local ones!
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That’s totally fair Michael as long as it’s not silly hours, in our industry it is people doing ridiculous hours but I guess that won’t be possible in all industries.
We have non-local employees that are desperate to work every hour going but they fail to see when it affects the quality of their work and their attitude in the workplace. And in quite a few industries I have witnessed plenty of people work silly hours where a lot of that time is spent achieving very little, even in areas of work where they don’t get paid overtime. I hate the 9-5 attitude but I would far prefer someone worked their hours and worked them well, it’s amazing how people can make themselves appear hardworking when they aren’t. As long as companies aren’t blind to those types of ‘hardworkers’!
The locals I know in my industry can’t work ridiculous hours because they are young, have had to raise themselves (alcoholic, useless parents) and, therefore, didn’t get much of an education. They are working to be able to live while furthering their education and bettering themselves, so they need some time not only for a life but also to study. They do work long hours but their contribution is often overlooked for non-locals who work longer hours.
It is a real shame because these locals don’t have an option to work the hours that the non-locals do and it seems that few people (even Jersey people) take that into account!
Simon, it’s a small company that I work for and I agree, these rules can only really be applied to larger companies . Even then some large companies are in tourism/catering but only have a handful of specialist office staff, the rules would have to be different for them also.
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To put another slant on this, I know a couple of very talented Jersey born and raised people in the finance industry.
They work in the City of London.
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Should point out, we have had to implement a rule where employees get charged if they up sticks within a certain time limit of us putting them through a professional qualification, and it wasn’t because of locals leaving with their qualification it was non-locals. Both can be deceptive and greedy.
Why do people continually fail to see that BOTH local and non-local populations have lazy people and both types have hard workers. If you seriously stereotype you’re just going to miss out on a potentially brilliant employee. Also some of the non-locals are so ‘great’ that they were passed over in their homeland for someone better. Some of the locals are so great that they beat many others to get a job in the UK among a much larger population of competition!
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I think it is best to employ locally where ever possible, often there is no need to bring in people. Just upping the population like this all the time is going to have severe consequences in the coming years for everyone over here.
As per working harder. Who is more pruductive someone doing 5 hours hard work a day and going home early or someone boom doggerling all day coming in early and staying back late?
It appears some would be sucked in by appearances which can be deceptive.
Also as per working extra hours surely this is wrong? If people are employed to work 9-5 then they should do what they are contracted to do, or employers expect something for nothing these days?
I view those doing extra hours for nothing as brown nosing if they aren’t being paid. I also blame the employer for encouraging this type of attitude and by doing this encouraging a dog eat dog ethos and along with it the back stabbing that after goes hand in glove with this mentality. This is not the way to a happy and productive work environment as far as I am concerned.
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41 Frenchie
….and all french people smell of garlic!!
You can’t make a sweeping generalisation like that. NOT all locals are lazy, NOT all locals want to go travelling and certainly NOT all non-locals have a better work ethic.
You are talking nonsense!
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I am getting fed up with the “local” bashing!
I think you will find there are probably as many non-local layabouts on states handouts as there are locals!
People using the 5 year rule as an excuse not to work are simply lazy and shirking their responsibilities.
I have interviewed plenty of local and non local staff in Jersey. The younger local interviewees are actually very competent and eager to do the jobs even though they might not have enough experience. The ones we have hired have so far, in my experience, been some of the hardest workers who actually bring ideas with them to the job and look to improve productivity or processes. I have also caught out plenty of non-locals who couldn’t even remember what they did in their previous jobs….if they were even real experiences on their CV’s!
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So the 900 unemployed Islanders will cue to harvest potatoes or work in the tourism industry as bar tenders, cleaners and so forth? It’s a joke – none will! It will kill farming and tourism to start with. Any you will all be moaning even more.
Leah Holmes: the rant about J cats is disgusting. If there was misuse: name and shame rather than making claims nobody can verify. I am a J cat and there is nobody on this island who is qualified for my job. Wonderful! First I get invited (in fact poached) and then I am – as all J cats – being treated like an enemy by all you small-minded and incompetent lot. Have my job and you will just ruin it and destroy more people’s income.
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P.S> I trained several people in the UK and they all (!) staid there. Why should we keep up with all these Jersey immigrants taking our jobs? Get home and harvest potatoes!
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M
When you “trained several people in the UK” I hope they did not pick up your inability to spell English “CUE to harvest potatoes”, “STAID there”, “ANY you will all be moaning even more”? We can all use txt speak, and have the odd typo in our writing but there is no excuse for bad grammar and spelling. I do not normally attack people in forums like this but your attitude on here is, to quote you “disgusting” and leads to you being challenged.
You say you were “(in fact poached) and then I am – as all J cats – being treated like an enemy by all you small-minded and incompetent lot.”
One hopes your employer chooses to throw you back in to the (UK) pond with the rest of the fish that cannot spell and can only accuse/lash out without any structure or arguement.
If you dont like the way you are being treated in Jersey then do something about it, to quote you “Get home and harvest potatoes!”? Go back to the UK and take your small minded attitude with you, and, someone local will fill your shoes – and be able to spell!
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I take it your job doesn’t involve spelling then M?
Just joking.
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Nellie Macon (11)
“local people could fill at least 75% if not more of these positions. The finance industry would certainly not shut down if we enforced this stringently – in fact we would benefit by the motivation it would give to local people who have given up hope of progressing in their careers.”
What rubbish! If these local people you speak of were competent enough then surely they would progress in there careers regardless of the J cats as surely it will cost companies more to bring in a J cat and provide housing than to employ a local.
So it would seem the locals already have an advantage if even with this advantage they are either to lazy or lack the intelligence to gain the appropriate qualifications then surely the problem is with the attitude of the locals not the J cat staff.
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M, I didn’t rant! I pointed out one situation (of which there will undoubtedly be more) where the law was clearly being abused.
I am an immigrant here also, although not a J-Cat, but there is no-one on the island qualified for my job either! But at least I can see that the rules gets abused. Wake up and smell the coffee, where there is a rule there is someone breaking it, it’s what we do about it that matters! Sounds like you’ve got an issue with how you’re being treated and you’re taking it out on the wrong person!
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ANON: You locals need to understand that not all of us “unqualified employees” get it easy. I have lived here for 3 years, have never had any subsidies on rent, or any kind help from the states or my employer. I pay your highest tax rate (20%), and have just had to complete Jury service, so I am defiantly making my contribution to the Island.
I’m now classed as local and guess what? I PAY 20% TAX! I DON’T HAVE ANY SUBSIDIES ON MY RENT! that’s what u get for earning in the higher bracket…
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Before this all gets out of hand with open warfare breaking out, there is probably room here for a little of that commodity wrongly named “Common sense”! whilst tighening up on the existing rules which would from the comments above seem to be “more than adequate” already for dealing with this situation, prehaps a scheme might be put in place to track all Jersey born and residentially qualified individuals to establish whether they currently work and reside on the Island, and if they don’t, then maybe establish whether in the short/medium or longterm it is ever their intention to return for “work” purposes? You will note I have not said “to take up residence”.It should then be possible to statistically establish just how many people of employment age who classify as “locals”, are likely to be in the Island at a specific time period? It should also more easy to establish who has absolutely no intention of returning other than to retire, i.e. have no intention of entering the workforce locally. That should then give a more realistic statistic from which to work when calculating number requirements for J category licence holders and other incomer categories?I think we will find that the population level is to a degree self controlling. That does not mean I am saying abolish all controls, because plainly there are instant attractions to large numbers of people across he globe to coming and residing here most of them financial!but even more political and security driven!For instance you would probably be surprised how many 11K individuals might relocate here without the current controls limiting their numbers, and these are people who together could afford to run the Island on their terms without a viable economy, and then you have a “Costa Smerelda” , “Palm Springs” situation.
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After reading ‘Bewildered’s’ comments re his friend who had just had a baby I felt compelled to get on my proverbial soapbox. I wonder how many people know that this 5 year rule also applies to income support. My partner was made redundant at the beginning of the year. He has lived, and now settled, on Island for nearly 4 years yet because he hasn’t lived here / paid social security for 5 years he isn’t entitled to any job seeker allowance or income support. During the time he was working he paid tax (quite large amounts), social security, parish rates and every other public utility us ‘locals’ pay. We are engaged, I have a job and own my own very small flat (perhaps that is the problem) so he will remain in the Island and continuing seeking work until things pick up and he finds employment. In the meantime I will have to really struggle to support us both. It’s worth mentioning that when he does eventually find a job he will be taxed at a very high rate to claw back the money he has not been able to pay. Suddenly the States will welcome him with open arms and embrace this non local! If it wasn’t for the fact I had more pride and determination I would sell my flat, quit my job and get pregant….then instead of not supporting 1 person (the dreaded non local) the States would have to support all 3 of us….and I really could do with new carpet and white goods!!!
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I am reading your comments with mixed feeling and wish I could agree with some of your comments, but it is hard for me to understand your mentality.
Having lived on the island for about 3 years, I have to say I call Jersey my Home, but it seems like that the current climate makes it even harder for somebody who has not been living in their actual Home country for the last 10 years to keep a safe an stable employment in Jersey.
If I would be jobless, I would be homeless and it would be rather difficult to find anything out on the market as I am 2 years short in the local qualification.
It would be great if some locals would realise that circumstances are different.
I am not working to make money here and to send it back or to afford buying or building a house in my country.
I am generally want to live and work here, if Locals want it or not.
I don’t want to take anybody’s job, I just want to survive and enjoy what I am doing.
I wish some of you would be able to experience living in a different country to understand my points.
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58…I am in a similar position.
My fiancee is non-local but lived and worked here for over 6 years. She was made redundant, but is ineligible for jobseeker allowance or income support and has the added bonus of having to find a way of paying social security contributions even though she has no income. Unfortunately we do not own our place but rent and it is simply because I am still in employment our “household” has an income. However, we do not pay social security or taxes per “household”….we pay ours as individuals. I have seen other non-locals return to Jersey after 8 years and get there quallies back immediately because they have kids. I know because they stayed with us for a short while. The states then gave them accommodation and told them they would get more benefits if neither parent worked. They were also awarded funds to purchase “white goods”.
This unfairness makes me sick to my stomach!
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All you “local” bashers should maybe take some time out to realise the “local” is the minority in this island so maybe you’re venting your frustrations at the wrong people!
Don’t forget you are always moaning that you want to be a “local”…..but only when it suits you of course!
Perhaps venting your frustrations at the incompetent and utterly useless states members would be more appropriate…..they are screwing the local as much as they are the non-locals!
Please remember that!
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Just a couple of things I have noted in my 4 years in Jersey.
1. The undergraduates go to the uk generally for university. Many don’t come back after graduation due to the prohibitively high cost of housing/lack of opportunities(not everybody wants to work in banking!). Jersey loses out.
2. People I have trained, 4, tend to move on very quickly for better wages because of above.
3. I have been made very welcome.
Cheers
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Thank you for your latest comment BS Deluxe and Just a Thought!
It seems that some of the commenters have to realies what we contribute to the island and that we do not have the attention to take anything away from them.
We also pay taxes and social security contribution and putting up with some appauling housing made available to us.
Perhaps the States should consider these facts. It is not fair to alienate us – every situation is different, therefore we deserve a chance!
I wouldn’t live here for 3 years, if I would not intend to stay!
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Bring back work permits,we knew what and who was going on then……..we are getting swamped with financial refugees…
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This Social security payments for those made redundant really must be addressed. My partner is in exactly the same boat, worked on island ful time for 12 years, never had any financial support, made redundant (good performer, taking on training etc while J Cats and under 5 years employees stayed on) and is now being asked to pay for social security based on house hold income with no income support.
I was born here, went to univerisity, came back, have been very well trained and stayed with a single employer. But when we treat hard working people with such utter contempt and offer zero support I wonder If I made the right choice in coming back to the island.
The States is an utter disgrace.
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Leah: as I said in my post, companies make mistakes about people but the good will out. If you’re good, move. I still don’t understand your comments about the problems locals have compared to non-locals. The only differences advantage locals.
Re your comments about your colleagues leaving post-qualification, if your employer wants employees to stay they should specify this in training contracts. Calling someone ‘deceptive and greedy’ just because they leave a job in a way they are presumably entitled to do is deeply unfair. I would also suggest you ask why they wanted to leave in the first place.
Good to see Adrian espousing Utopia again rather than dealing with the issue! ‘I view those doing extra hours for nothing as brown nosing…’ Wonderful nonsense.
Re BS Deluxe’s ‘non local layabouts’, I attended the petty debts court recently and was amazed that the majority of those with tax, social security, rates and other arrears had local names. Quite impressive considering these people are apparently a minority! Not statistically significant but interesting nevertheless.
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Road Runner, you’re in the same boat as me. Unfortunately some people are taking the proverbial and it does make it harder for those of us that aren’t.
BS Deluxe, my partner is disgusted at the way I’ve been treated by Social Security and the Health Department. He feels that the States make it unnecessarily difficult for people to enter a relationship with someone from outside Jersey but as far as he’s concerned there’s not a hope of him finding someone suitable who has been born and raised here, most go off to Uni (where we met) and don’t return.
He has contributed for years and not asked for a penny back (hasn’t had ill health or anything) and now the Health Department are being overly anal with me despite having cooked the books and used UK taxes (that I paid) to help fund their own health service!
I’m not wanting anything for free but some common sense and decency would not go astray. And I refuse to get married JUST to make life easier with all the regulations.
Do the States only want Jersey people to marry other Jersey people? They make it pretty blinking difficult for Jersey people to date anyone from outside Jersey!
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Nellie Macon, why not ban everyone from the Island who doesnt have a Jersey sounding surname and finish their sentences with ‘ey’?
I note you have the best interests of the Island to heart, but your method of creating a better Jersey is more like a regime.
LIVE AND LET LIVE, QUALIFICATIONS FOR ALL!
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Great note Mr Sausage!
I think we should move forward and not backwards. It took Jersey already a while to sign up for the Human Rights Act.
We still behind in so many legislation especially in the Employment sector which are in the UK the norm.
It is time to look at other rules and regulation and make a change in ridiculous laws that keep Jersey behind in a time that doesn’t exist anymore!
Wake up everybody we are in the 20th century for quite a long time!
Think ahead people!
Time to rethink and move on!
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We don’t need a five year rule. Housing qualifications would work just fine on their own. Noone would live in non-qual accomodation for 11 years with no intention of staying for good afterwards.
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Good point, Uk Student.
We as non Jerey people have to put up with the Housing regulation which is fine as long as we treat with respect and have reasonable accommodation, but to make it even harder for us why do we have to wait 5 years to get job that take ages to fill sometimes anyway?
Give us a chance skip the 5 years rule!
More freedom to everyone!
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I just like to add that some people who moved to this island before the 70s & 80s actually had to live and contribute for 20 years before being classed as “local” or to have the same working living rights as those born here.
My parents were apart of that group and now as my mother has moved away for 5+ years she no longer has her qualifications even though she lived here for a total of 40+ years paying tax and social. She is no longer able to buy a home in Jersey in her own name or be able to return to work in Jersey unless a bussiness has a working license in place. Lets face it all the quals issues in Jersey are wrong no matter which angle you look at it and to be honest seeing as so many are pissed off with the island and the way it is run who will be coming here soon anyway.
As for the island needing to import J Cats… In my work place I am able to receive sponsorship to complete my professional training and in return I have to give 2 years committment after qualifying back to my company. Seeing as most higher-education students receive a grant from Jersey Education dept I do not see why these students should not do the same but say with in 10 years of graduating you must return to Jersey and give back some of that knowledge for a number of years!!
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Michael Neal
If you are going to quote me then quote the full message not just the part that suits your irrelevant argument.
“I think you will find there are probably as many non-local layabouts on states handouts as there are locals!” is the full comment!
Pray tell what you class as a “local” name. It seems to me you are passing comment without knowing the full facts. Your recent trip to the petty debts court cannot be used to make a sweeping statement against the whole local population!
That’s like saying all martian people shop at spar because I saw a few in there when I went to get my milk!
Leah, not sure what the States want but I bet they’d encourage a local marrying either a J-Cat or 11K !
Road Runner….I think you are behind the times….we are in 21st century now
In my opinion:-
Abolish 5 year rule and quallies
Abolish houses of residence used by employers for their J-Cats or other (non-essential) imported staff. Their staff should arrange and pay for their own accommodation like the rest of us (and not receive them as a perk with reduced rents etc where they still get the same or better salaries as a local resident doing the same job – this happens in finance all the time and is grossly unfair and unnecessary).
Implement work permits
Introduce a fair benefits system: if you have contributed and later need assistance then there should be no discrimination; those who have never contributed but qualify for assistance need to “earn” their benefits by doing something useful for the community.
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Michael Neal what is wrong with wanting a better world? Surely you realise things can’t carry on as they are?
Why work extra hours for no reward? This is plain stupid and only plays into the hands of unscrupulous bosses as far as I am concerned.
It also puts undue pressure on fellow workers who may not be able to waste their time at work like some can. If you are employed 9-5 that is your contract honoured. If your boss wants more then he can pay for it can’t he? It is not up to workers to bail out bad bosses.
As per the 5 year rule it needs scrapping and Jersey needs a proper immigration scheme like Australia, so Jersey only takes the best and not rubbish.The Ozzies expect new comers to pay their way even for medical needs for at least the first 2 years and why not? They expect newcomers to be a benefit, not a drain on their resources, Jersey needs to do the same. Australia also doesn’t allow dodgey characters in either which is a good thing.
As an aside I believe places like Kuwait, for example, only allow people in to work, once their contracts are up they are asked to leave. They do not stay and get their quallies. So some places are much more strict on immigration.
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I think the 5 year rule has a negative impact on the mindset of Jersey people. Being given preference over immigrants, means some of us believe birthright owes us a decent standard of living. It does not, we have to work for it. If we are not qualified for a job, we should try & train for it, not moan about foreigners taking away our livelihoods. I’m convinced we’d have a stronger island if the 5 year rule was completely scrapped
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Well I think having lived in the island years ago the outsiders really are outsiders. We have no rights, But you want to use our hospitals, universities and buy our houses! Bog Off and stay out of our country. People work on the island and pay taxes but don’t get the rights and allowances that they deserve
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Michael, I have to disagree, these local young people were let down by Jersey in the first place. Jersey failed them by not taking them off their incompetent, alcoholic parents, and Jersey owes them the right to get a proper education now and try and rectify the situation. Jersey is not responsible for what happened in the past of anyone who comes into the island but it is totally responsible for letting these kids get to the stage of having no education and having to live and provide for themselves with no adult guidance at any point!
These locals ARE disadvantaged over their colleagues… they can’t save up to build a massive home in Madeira and they can’t give up every hour of their day to work because they HAVE to create a future for themselves. The fact that you can’t see this side of the story makes me rather sad and is a great example of just how little Jersey knows about how it has failed some of its young.
And we do tie training costs into employee contracts and the cost is deducted from an employee’s final pay if they leave before a certain time, I was replying to someone suggesting only ‘locals’ would behave in such a way, showing that this was not the case at all. The local bashing that goes on with this site is ridiculous and outright discriminatory, I find it odd that people actually believe there is any major difference between the morals and values of locals and non-locals.
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Adrian, I think the best answer to the covering costs would be an agreement that once you have lived and contributed in a country for a certain period of time, if you then move elsewhere, that country pays your medical care in the new country until you are covered by the new country (with a standard timeframe for that also).
The fact that I have contributed in the UK for well over a decade, and then the UK/Jersey health agreement is scrapped and I am left high and dry despite not having missed a single month paying either National Insurance OR Social Security is absolutely insane, and frankly it’s disgusting! But hey, if you obey the law you get **** upon, I should just go to A&E with any medical issue I have even if it is one for a GP!
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Leah: Why are all locals the product of lousy parenting? Many aren’t. Also, Jersey not being responsible for non-locals with problems (assuming I agree with that) doesn’t mean those people aren’t disadvantaged in work just as much by their upbringing. Re education, you’re assuming all locals spend all their free time improving themselves. They don’t.
Non-locals have to build a future for themselves and this takes just as much effort as does for locals, though I accept that house prices are a problem in Jersey. As I said before, I am not talking about ‘every hour of their day’, just not doing the bare minimum.
Finally, where does personal responsibility come into this? Some people need help but they need to help themselves as well.
BS Deluxe: You said that equal numbers of locals and non-locals were layabouts. My experience in the petty debts court implies otherwise. Common sense also implies otherwise as non-locals are affected by the five year rule Re ‘sweeping statements’, I agree completely. That’s why I wrote, ‘Not statistically significant but interesting nevertheless.’
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I agree that Jersey should rethink their 5 years policy.
Instead it should do a preferred Jersey or a different selection process where Jersey born or over 5 years residence are consider first, however the employer/ company is then able if the application from these 2 categories are not suitable to consider non local applicants.
It would empower employers more and would skip the 5 years residency.
All companies have to do is make sure that locals and over 5 years have priority, but it would make life a little easier for us as “majority group” called non locals or lower class.
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Michael Neal (66)and (79)
Maybe there are apparently more locals appearing in the Petty Debts Court because it is easier to track down locals and get them to court before they do a runner?
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Locals appear in the Petty Debts Court because they are worth pursuing in terms of getting your cash back.
Try chasing after someone from outside the island that may have a fictional home address.
The States Tax Department should publish how much tax is not collected because the tax payers have cleared off, liabilities unpaid!
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Well said, Pip.
The States’ coffers would be over brimming with wealth, beyond the dreams of even the avaricious of Jersey, If P.A.Y.E. had been introduced when it was in the UK.
But that was never going to happen all the time that the rich could benefit from investing their tax liabilities until it was time to pay up and making a tidy packet meanwhile.
After all, they are the ones who made, and still make, the rules including the five year one.
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R B Bougourd: agreed for non-locals who are not resident in Jersey. However, there are plenty of non-locals who are permanently resident in Jersey and it has been claimed that locals are a minority.
Also, while I accept that those with investments will keep some of their tax liability for longer, people who receive most of their income from investments are required to make a payment on account in April each year. Also, most locals pay ITIS on a prior year basis, eg the ITIS paid in 2009 is used to pay off their 2008 tax liability.
Pip Clement: The tax department can and do pursue people in other jurisdictions for tax arrears. It is harder but it is done.
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Adrian – absolutely right – we need work permits or visas but the CoM refuses to even consider them.
Mr Sausage – If you have read my comments you should see that I refer to “local” and not Jersey people solely, as I believe that people who have shown a commitment to the Island should be entitled to be considered first for all vacant positions – whether your name happens to be de Sousa, O’Brian or McGregor – makes no difference.
ISCBE – “middle Jersey” students receive nothing in the way of grants from the Education Department – if the parents’ gross income is £50K or more (that’s £25K each which is not a fortune if you’re paying avergage rent or a mortgage) and are expected to pay for every single expense for their children to attend uni – this amounts to £10K pa and upwards. For the majoity this is impossible.
For those that do make it and get their degrees, they are struggling to get a first foot on the employment ladder – not because they want to earn megabucks from their first job but simply because employers are choosing to pay newcomers a pittance to do the same job or insist on “experience” – well how do you gain experience if you’re not allowed to get your first job?
Many of my childrens’ friends have spent the year after uni looking in vain for a job and in the end have left for the UK – probably never to return – totally disheartened as they wanted to live here with their families and friends. We have an appalling system over here and this 5 year rule not being enforced is the crux of the matter.
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Nellie 85 you said:-Many of my childrens’ friends have spent the year after uni looking in vain for a job and in the end have left for the UK
Well if the UK had the same 5 yr law that you are endorsing this wouldn’t be possible, but many locals seem happy that there is one rule for people coming to Jersey and another for Jersey people going to the UK.
If local people are so hard done by why is there so many jobs in hotels etc on the Jobs website, the answer is simple, because they would rather claim benefits than work for the minimum wage. Where is these peoples pride, its disgusting!
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gary 86. you are spot on there.i worked in jersey, from 79-85,as a bricklayer.i always felt a second class citizen,in jersey although i loved working, there.i think it was 20 years, then for your qualls. the state would not give you anything,but the uk give the jersey people everything.your accomodation,was atrocious to say the least.quality tradesmen treated like rubbish. so thank yu very much for nothing jersey. ps the kon tiki was good though…..
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Goodness what a mixture of views, and differing examples of how these arrangements effect people’s lives.I think we all have to remember, locals and incomers (If we have to label people into what from the above would seem to be rather general and simplistic categories) that this is a smallish Island of some 90,000 permanent residents at the present time, and no matter how successful our finance industry is or becomes, the fact is that the more people allowed unrestricted access to our jobs market the less likely we are to have enough top jobs to offer, even to those with top qualifications.The supply will always outstrip the demand, and sadly it is a fact of life that no matter how you legislate you will never satify everyone or achieve fairplay for everyone.I will say that in this respect Jersey for it’s size has come closer than most at achieving “Eldorado”. Having resided and worked in both Jersey and the UK during my career I have often wondered what some locals who go on about GST for example would make of Council Tax if such a system was introduced by Parishes locally? At the same time I am constantly seeing in the UK criticism of the current UK Government’s attitude to immigration and foreign workers taking British Jobs! Yet when it comes to an Island (Of 84 square miles) which has managed, without oil or natural resources, to maintain a GNP per head of population right up there with Kuwait and Norway (Both major oil producers with comparatively small populations)for several decades, no one seems satified that whatever is being done here is pretty unique,and is not being done in any other UK coastal Islands with the possible exception of the Isle of Man and Guernsey,and even they are running hard to keep up. Why therefore is there constant pressure from the UK for us to change our systems to copy those of a UK Council, say as in the Isle of Wight for example? Why when UK taxpayer’s are so hard pressed will people only be satisfied when the Island kills the “Goose that lays the Golden Egg” and we have to look to those UK taxpayers to bail us out? Will they be so keen then to be seen constantly lecturing us on what we are doing wrong all the time?Will they Heck!
If you go to any other country in the world to take up permanent residence you would not expect to just walk in and take over!Even in countries that would have not existed without our(The British) having invented them, you would find you would have to comply with all sorts of rules and regulations designed either to restrict the numbers of incomers or in a lot of cases prevent incomers ever achieving local status!
I do think that locally there is a requirement for accomodation to be of a certain standard, and a great deal is being done here to try and remedy some of the more unacceptable standards and practices, and that goes on within the limitations of the resources available (The main one being available land mass).
So my point is that just as I know I won’t inherit half London like the Duke of Westminster,or own St Ouen’s Manor (Unless something wholly untoward happens), I also know I am highly unlikely to become a Saudi National and acquire all the benefits that go with that status such as a free house for life/schooling for my children/Top medical treatment for life for my whole family/ a guaranteed top salaried job for life, to name just a few.
It is a fact of life I am afraid that whereever you go you have to accept the local laws and practices, and here in Jersey those laws and practices are most important if we are to maintain a decent standard of living for all, locals and incomers alike!Let alone their children and grandchildren!
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ALL employers in the hospitality sector IE: Pubs,hotels etc: on the island every year make a massive profit,They can afford to employ Local Jersey folk and pay them a good wage and still make a comfortable profit,How does one know this? Well i worked for jersey brewery for a number of years and had privy knowledge of how this sector worked,All it is overheads,Pay the safe peanuts and have twice as many of them,the quality doesn’t really matter just as long as they look ok and they can speak English,these people that run these firms don’t look to employ local,Try it as an experiment,Go for an interview and see if you get the post,I guarantee you, you won’t get the job,Predudism in Jersey is alive and kicking,and it’s coming from the people with money and the power.It’s about time the working classes of jersey took a stand and with the 900+ unemployed marched onto St Heller and made their point known,that’s why Jersey is dying on it’s knees today,we need a shake up of government,we need party politics..
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Running any business you need the right employees for the job regardless of where they came from, I think that every employer, whether it be in Jersey or anywhere else should have the right to employ the person who “fits the bill”, if that means employing some-one who hasnt lived here for 5 years then so be it. If people leaving jersey to study and work in the UK are more than welcome in the UK then the opposite should be true also. If people come here to work and through paying tax, contribute to the local community they shouldn’t be penalised for it, rather welcomed with open arms, the money being spent on tightening up restrictions on people moving here would be better spent on getting the unemployed back into work! Having the finance sector here is a great thing for Jersey, It must generate a lot of money for the Island, but you shouldn’t forget that with the average 1 bed flat in Jersey costing £170,000 it won’t be long before the people of Jersey are relying on the financial “migrant workers” to keep their economy afloat and accustomed to the public services they expect.
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adrian 47.
Brown nosing? Its called hard work adrian, sometimes, to get the job done properly it takes more than the “contracted hours”, and as for the dog eat dog thing, working harder than the person next to you is nothing to be ashamed of, if the firefighter or police officer responded to your call a minute after their contracted hours you wouldn’t be calling that “brown nosing”
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I lived in Jersey for 8 years, attended primary and secondry at St. brelades, but moved to France with my family in 2000. I moved back to Jersey in 2008 but was unable to find a job suitable as most the jobs suitable for me were states jobs and needed 5 years residency which I lost when I left the island in 2000 or my french qualifications werent recognised. I left the island due to not earning enough and rent prices being ridicilous. Love the island and hope to return back one day (maybe if I win the lottery…).
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