Free town parking? Not on Sunday!
Saturday 25th July 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Charlotte Dickson checks her parking card after having been given a parking fine on a Sunday in Peirson Road. Picture by Richard Wainwright (00749660)
PUZZLED motorists are being fined for unwittingly flouting Sunday parking laws – even though the day is not marked on paycards.
Confusion is mounting among drivers after parish officials changed the parking laws but failed to add ‘Sunday’ to scratchcards.
In residential parking zones stretching from the Esplanade to St Mark’s Road, motorists are required to display a resident’s permit or a paycard between 9 am and 10 pm. After 10 pm the space is deemed for use by residents only.
One motorist who recently fell foul of the Sunday parking law was Charlotte Dickson. She parked in Peirson Road, at the side of the Grand Hotel, on Sunday 12 July and returned to her car to find a £30 parking ticket on her windscreen.
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i find this a disgrace, another stealth tax,
even on a sunday, the motorist is being hounded, give us a break and give it a rest.
it was bad enough when you had to get out of bed on a saturday to deal with scratch cards.
where will it end..
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Don’t worry this is the mighty Jersey civil service at work. We a paying parking control officers, at an elevated weekend rate no doubt, to ensure a parking tariff has been paid, when there is no way in which to pay the tariff.
Somebody should be sacked! Yes sacked, starting with senior management. No buck passing here. The handy work of TTS again?
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There’s nothing worse than an unexpected parking fine when funds are running low. And £30 for some families is a substantial sum, especially if they are in the lower-wage bracket and have small children. Obviously, for the richer end of the salary scale, although still very annoying, a £30 fine it’s not going to upset the family budget…so in all fairness, fines should be wage related!
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This is a deliberate initiataive to raise revenue, they have intentionally not made this common knowledge in order to raise revenue from fines.
Disgraceful and typical Jersey, remember when paycards were introduced, the idea ( we were told ) was to discourage parking in town. BS it was to milk the motorist for ever increasing amounts.
Ever since we have seen free parking disappear ( airport 30 min zone, less and less disc parking ) welcome to Jersey – bend over and say aah!
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Another example of the joined up thinking that typifies our council of ministers, parish officials and senior civil service mandarins.
When will the people of Jersey wake up and say “enough is enough” and force a general election out of the ruling establishment? Or like cattle, will they keep chewing at the cud of lies that they are being fed?
In another country, people would have got off their knee’s and on their feet years ago. Have we learnt NOTHING from the lessons of the occupation about living under the shackles of oppression?
Get real Jersey and stand up for what is right.
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Hmmm, one feels a lack of competence may have shown it’s ugly hand here.
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Cynical Sid – Er, we had an election and re-elected the ruling establishment!!!
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Parking enforsement has absoultely nothing to do with road safety, but is simply in place to extract additional money from the private motorist while commercial vehicles and thouse owned by any form of States department are routeenly parked on yellow lines and parking control officers simply walk past. It is frankly disgraceful !
While many feel that the motorist should be stung at every possible opportunity, on the basis that they are breaking some law, there is no law that forces me to drive and park my car where I have to pay, or risk getting clamped. I have never got clamped, the last parking fine I got was 20 years ago, and a pack of scratch cars lasts me a year, because I generally shop out of town, and visit establishments where I don’t have to pay to park. I care nothing for St Helier as a shopping centre, and frankly any form of payment for parking is extortion, when I am simply bringing business to the area. Any trader in St Helier who is struggling to survive may as well shut up shop as far as I am concerned, as as a motorist, I dont feel welcome in town, and I am certainly not going to struggle home on the bus with a large heavy object under my arm.
Unfortunately, our elected represetatives have free parking provision, and with States employees vehicles being totally exempt from parking restrictions, this situation will never change.
Just hammer the private motorist and it is OK by our elected representatives. Absolutely shameful.
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Constable Jackson..stop this nonsense NOW pay back any fines…how dare you fine people on a Sunday,,,let alone not have the cards sorted..whatever day was put up on the card would be wrong this is Highway robbery…come on you politicians stamp on this madness before you entirely alienate every voter on the rock.
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You could call what we had an election.
With three classes of members and a lack of anything that could be called a manifesto from any of the candidates, I would not call it an election.
Philip Ozouf and his allies stood on a platform that opposed the introduction of a guarantee for depositors but only last week he was pushing this measure through the States.
In Jersey you do not get what you vote for!
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correct me if i am wrong but dont the fines go to the parish, if they do you can not blame the elected members apart from the parish constable
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No where man. What are you on about ? this is about parking fines not prostitution ?
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NoWhereMan. Wow! What was wrong with you through the night, indigestion? Did you eat too much “Racist Pie”? Just remember if we don’t take food to the poorer nations they’ll come and take it off our tables! So we’d better get a move on before it’s too late. No-one really wants to leave their loved ones and homeland, just as no-one wants to see their homeland and customs destroyed by immigrant cultures…but racism is not the answer.
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this a will not be a deliberate act but is an another example of the general incomptetence of those who are responsible for the management of the parish organisation. Whoever is responsible for this activity should explain why this happened and what is to be done about it just as any other employed person would have to do
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Perhaps the parish are testing the water in advance of a relaxation of Sunday trading laws?
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You are constantly trying to take from the islanders just stop being greedy and go and balance the books correctly stop covering up your errors and getting the public to pay for parking on a Sunday your nothing but a brunch of greedy people…..Sunday is a day of rest not a day of ticketing people…..
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I tend to park in one of the car parks along the avenue, as it only costs a million pounds a year, as opposed to 2 million to park in town. I quite often have holiday makers coming up to me in an exasperated manner in the morning to ask what paycards are and where they can get them from. And that’s before they even discover how much they cost – I don’t have the heart to tell them. You see, they still don’t work after all this time.
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I think the fine should be upheld, there are too many cars in Jersey and there is just no need.
I also campaign for an Island wide speed limit of 20mph. Jersey needs to cut down on its cars and this will encourage it.
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Dear Mrs Bead
I assume your comment is there purely to provoke a reaction?
Dear Mo
I very much enjoyed your “Parking on a Sunday/Brunch” joke. Very good.
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18.I think a lie down in a darkened room for a little while may relieve the situation…..
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Mrs Rosemary Bead. If you want 20mph less cars(if any)then go and live in Sark! People like you are the type of people who moan about the local Quizmaster in the local pub being too loud and noisy. Get a life!
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I just cannot grasp this. This my friends, is an outrage.
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Dg, the quizmaster in my local pub is a very nice man indeed, please do not insult him.
Truthseeker, your comments are arrogant.
Bob Fleming, if the speed limit was cut to 20MPH there would be no road deaths and a very small amount of road related accidents in Jersey, this can cause whatever reaction you want but, for me – it makes sense.
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Dear Rosemary (18), maybe as a good law-abiding citizen you would like to pay some form of levy, as yet unpaid by you, for which there is a yet no form of legitimist payment other then some form of convoluted legality and fine.
I am sure there are many things that you do, which I may not approve, but that does not the legitimise your armament by civil servants. Get real, please.
Yes ‘truthseeker’ and Pip (9&10), where in the noble Constable Jackson? Does he seek to this innocence or will he seek to reign in the offending officials? Over to you dear Minister for Transport.
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Everyone seems to be missing the true underlying point here, Yes there is no Sunday marked on Paycards, however the only areas that have these parking regulations are area’s that are within the residents parking schemes, that is, area’s deemed for residents to park in. As we have permits to park in the area and don’t require paycards, why should the parish give a fortune to the states to change the paycards for approx 40-50 spaces in the whole of st.Helier. The st marks road residents parking scheme has been in operation for many years with this same regulation but I haven’t seen that many people complaining before.
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Re #17, it would be great to restore the lay by’s west of First Tower to Free Parking The legitimate revenue form these parking areas must be minimal, and one often sees a PCO booking one of two cars parked in these lay by’s during the week.
Re #18, how vindictive. This particular incident happend on a Sunday, in a residential area. One must therefore assume that the person who’s car was ticketed was visiting a freind who lives in the area, as on tends to do on a Sunday
I honestly believe that draconian enforcement of parking regulations ultimately results in the decline of a community.
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Like it 22
Boosh!
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This is another reason why tourists dont come back because they pay for every step they take.
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Surely all this begs the question:
If it’s all right for parking to be free on Sundays, why is it necessary to pay on other days.
If all the claimed purpose to restrict parking and prevent abuse what exactly was wrong with time limited disc parking?
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I think the parking fines are unfair when the decision to charge for parking on a Sunday has not been communicated to the public. On the contrary, I do think parking fines are a good thing where people are parking on yellow lines or obstructing exits/entry ways.
Born Warrior – how can you justify fines being wage related? People work hard to earn their money and if they cannot afford the £30 fine, they should make absolutely sure where they are parking is free.
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It’s very sad, vistitors to your lovely island will dwindle
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Dear Mrs Bead
I’m not convinced that having a 20 mph limit would reduce road deaths or accidents. Surely having such a restrictive limit would lead to far more frustrated overtaking manouveres that would subsequently lead to more accidents. Also, don’t most accidents on the road occur at relatively low speeds anyway (I’m sure somebody probably has statistics in this regard), so having a lower speed limit wouldn’t alter this? Also, can you imagine how difficult it would be to police that speed limit effectively? It just isn’t practical.
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Eh, no. No way. I’m not having that. Absolutely not, I’m drawing a line on that. That’s it
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The whole illegal parking subject is comepletely flawed anyway.
Every single day I see many cars parked illegally (Indigo House on a bend with a car park opposite, Queen’s Road, most streets in St Helier…) I never see a traffic warden slapping them with fines so invariably more and more people take the chance. Even when there are bollards up on the pavement, some lorries merely park in the road blocking traffic!
If the law is to be enforced properly then it has to be fair….ANY illegal parking should be fined and not just when or where the authorities “choose” to uphold the law.
Howard Moon.
This, my friend, is jazz funk
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Bob Fleming, the statistics show that in areas where the speed limit is 20mph or less LESS accidents occur and deaths are cut to zero.
You need to think outside fo the box here and stop viewing it from the current speed limit perspective.
The Island isnt even 20mph long, so it would not dramatically increase peoples travelling times. People think if the speed limit was dropped that the Island would come to a stand still and there would be traffic jams constantly. This just isnt the case at all, and there are no statistics to support it.
The only people who really need to drive in an Island as small as Jersey are the disabled, and families. everyone else should really get the bus or walk or ride a pushbike. I am all for civil liberty and freedom of choice but when faced with the current climate problems I put the future, and our grandchildrens future ahead of our generations selfish needs and wants i.e. big gas guzzlers and speed, the “our generation will be o.k so to hell with it lets just carry on pumping gas into the atmosphere, who cares about global warming” attitude.
It would be easy for the police to police a 20mph speed limit. People would be forced into buying economic cars or abandoning them all togther. Jersey would be greener, cleaner and safer protected for future generations. Surely everyone wants this – think outside of the box we owe it to our children and our childrens children. Everyone hates being told what to do, I do to, but this needs some serious thought otherwise there will be no planet for our children to live on.
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Believe Mrs Bead, you wouldn’t believe how many envelopes I’ve pushed and boxes I’ve thought outside in order to synergise my thoughts into cross-referenced workflows, in order to run my ideas up flagpoles in the pursuit of blue skying my thoughts, going forward.
Shouldn’t it be FEWER accidents?
I’d like to reply to your statement about only families and the disabled needing cars. I don’t fit into either category, but I live near the North Coast nowhere near a bus route that operates at a convenient time and work in town. I do activities after work (which are normally based in or near town and which require sports equipment), after which there are definitely no buses home. Am I supposed to walk home (about 8 miles) at that time? Bear in mind I can’t carry my sporting paraphernalia on a bike.
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Bob Fleming, there is no easy answer to your part. problems, apart from the States need to get behind the campaign and provide better public and green transport – you need to think outside of your very small box. You argument is selfish reasoning on any view.
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You can try and insult me as much as you like Mrs Bead, but I’m not going to retaliate. It’s very easy to under be brave under the anonymity of forums.
On the contrary, I was actually speaking for people (of whom I think there are a lot in the island) who have been marginalised by your regime and don’t fit into your rather specific categories of people who qualify for cars.
The only reason my box is small is because it’s been streamlined so that it can fit easily into my rucksack for the cycle home.
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in reply to 34 BS Deluxe
Oh. The double? That’s even worse!
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Rose
You’ve raised your ridiculous 20mph rule before in other forums and you received many justifiable arguments against your proposal.
Who is really being selfish…..could it be you?
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any form of charging for parking on sunday is in my eye a stealth tax, the very fact that residents parking is extra is another tax upon rates paid.
on a better note its very good to see the positive action of the laying of grippy tarmac on grouville hill , well done workers and tts.
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Oh my goodness, Mrs Bead is at it again – at least she’s lowered her standards to 20mph instead of 10mph – if she raised them, we all might as well be on Sark (or back in the dark ages) – no offence intended to any Sarkee (?) residents!
However, we once again digress – wasn’t this debate about having to display (and pay) for a parking ticket on a Sunday where no such pay ticket is available for purchase?
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Rozel Aubin
Posted July 28, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Mrs Bead
Most of us took your views on 20 mph with a pinch of salt previously when the topic under discussion actually was speed limits.
This time however the subject of the thread is parking – particularly with regard to Sundays. Parked cars travel at well under 20 mph so I guess your crusade somewhat irrelevant to the thread.
I have to say that you do show considerable self restraint by not hijacking the property development, juvenile drunkenness, financial crisis and other threads in the furtherance of your campaign. Well done!
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And now the States want to put up parking charges substantially at a time when Jersey’s inflation rate is “Zero” Absolutely disgusting.
Surley the time has come to remove free parking provision for States members and civil servants. Also remove free parking provision for disabled persons.
A level playing field please !
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as for green issues are you gonna turn off your computer ,tv,lights,fridge,oven etc. jersey is far less poluuted than most towns in the uk and just because a speed limit is enforced does not mean people would stick to it but hey that would mean more money into the coffers of local and i use this term lightly “government” and can you imagine the traffic it was bad enough last time was home in 2007
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SL9 30.
Subject: salary-related parking fines
You wanted me to justify my statement, well take a deep breath…
EXAMPLE
If Mr.NotSoAffluent and Mr.Affluent were found guilty of the same offence, and Mr.NotSoAffluent got 30 days hard labour and Mr.Affluent got only 3, it wouldn’t be fair, would it?
Then, why should why should Mr.NotSoAffluent, who earns £300 per week, pay 10% of his weekly earnings when Mr.Affluent, who earns 3,000 per week pays only 1% of his…for the exact same traffic offence! That’s like thrashing one and just scolding the other.
Fines are a deterrent, but it seems they are more of a deterrent for one category than for another.
Therefore, a salary-related parking fine of let’s say 5% of weekly earnings is equitable.
The revenue from fines would probably increase (thus keeping the parishes happy) and there would be less traffic “scofflaws” among the affluent who can “afford” to take the risk and park where they shouldn’t!
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Mr. Fleming, your last paragraph says it all – YOU CAN operate using a pushbike, proving my point that there is no need for a car.
I think Ive insulted your intelligence, for that I do not apologise. I would be happy to meet up with you in person and say exactly what Ive said in this forum.
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no sunday trading so why pay to park on a sunday
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Mrs Bead,
I have taken your advice and I have telephoned Ronez. I have said that because they are neither disabled nor a family that I want my 6 ton of concrete delivered to my address in St Clement by way of bicycle or bus.
They tell me that they are unable to guarantee the fluidity of their product for pouring but will do what they can.
I warned them not to cycle faster than 20 mph.
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This is just another ploy by the states/parishes to increase revenue by punishing those people that they should be trying to help. The resident’s parking scheme, although useful for those living in difficult areas, is ridiculous. Why should people bother to pay extra for proerties with parking if they know they can simply but a place included in the residents parking scheme and pay £100 to park more or less wherever they like in town now given the amoutn of places that are covered by this scheme?!
On another note, the tickets given are easily contestable and i have received a full refund for occassions I have been booked unlawfully by said parish officials (who I’m sure must have something better to do with their time on a sunday rather than wandering round giving out tickets to innocent motorists…..maybe I’m wrong though)
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Bs Deluxe, Pandoras Hope (Lost). I am exercising my right to have an opinion. Just because you do not agree does not mean my opinion is ‘ridiculous’.
You are happy to exercise your opinions regularly on this forum but whenever someone goes agaisnt the grain you ridicule their idea and put that person down personally – as you have clearly done here for all to see.
This is a typical small Island mentality response and shows a lot for how things are done here in Jersey i.e. fear of anything new is met by aggresive bullying tactics.
Mine is a minority opinion, I concede, but an honourable one, and I will not give in to you. I shall carry on holding the candle of hope for change to a 20MPH speed limit in Jersey and for a greener , cleaner, safer Island, despite the hostility and mocking behaviour I face.
As the almigthy once said, “Forgive thee as thee forgive those that forgive thyself and thee”, or something like that.
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I tend to agree with anon. If shop keepers can’t reap the benefit of Sunday trading, why should the States??
and on an unrelated note, Mrs Bead, Buster Gut makes a very good point. Time to wake up and smell the “common sense” roses.
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Here Here Mrs Bead! Keep up the good work, its about time someone spoke out on this issue. Im all for it.
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I have witnessed Mrs Bead’s many arguments on a change of the speed limit to 20MPH throughout this forum. Whilst I do not agree with some of her points, overall I think she is right and we should show some support. 20MPH would be a great benifit to the Island.
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In respect of the comment from Rosemary Bead and her 20 mph campaign.
Whilst the percentage of fatalities compared to accidents may be less at 20 than at 30- 40 the number of fatalities remains constant as there are many more accidents at low speeds for the simples reason that any sense of danger is lost at low speeds resulting in a loss of focus and concentration by the driver and an equally fatal loss of any concept of danger by the pedestrian. Indeed from my experience most accidents are caused through lack of concentration, lack of respect for other road users or excessive speed. None of these issues will be solved through such measures as a blanket 20 mph, in fact most will be exacerbated.
Add to this the additional pollution and resulting traffic chaos that will directly result in such a move I only hope that our Council of Ministers have the sense to ignore such politically correctness.
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This whole thread simply illustrates that virtually nobody is capable of either reading or understanding what they have read. Post 25 from resident sums it up.
This is nothing to do with general parking in St Helier: it is only related to the very small number of residents parking zones. these have been created for people who live in St Helier and who do not have parking spaces themselves.
If all of you weren’t so keen to kick the “establishment” you might realise that this is a non-story. If you want to park in St Helier on a Sunday you can do, just not in the very limited number of residents parking bays. But don’t let the truth get in the way…
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Mrs Bead.
I think I may have made this point before, but driving at 20mph is simply not fuel efficient. You would never leave second gear!
When driving around town in my car at about this speed (even in free flowing traffic) I rarely go above 15 MPG. Along the avenue at 40 I can make 5th gear and make 45 MPG. Three times less fuel per mile!!
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In response to the last comment. I was NOT parked in a residents parking bay. The space I was using was a PAYCARD space, and the parking ticket I received was for the offence of “Not displaying a paycard in a paycard space” it was not for parking in a residents only zone.
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I cant help but comment on the subject of the 20mph speedlimit disagreement, I personaly think that this is a fantastic idea and we should applaud Mrs Bead for all her efforts in supporting this. The rest of us should take a leaf out of her book and realise the good that could come out of this if it was to be actioned!
Think about it people!
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UK Student you have completely missed my point which is to get rid of gas guzzling cars like yours and replace them as time goes on with fuel efficient and green cars. If a 20MPH speed limit were in force you would soon opt for a more fuel efficient car thus forcing you to go green. Eventually only cheap green cars would be on the Island solving the problem.
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I recently had loan car whilst my 4×4 was in for a service. As is the nature of small cheap loan cars I would assume it would fall into the fuel efficient green category referred to by Mrs Bead. I was shocked to note that this car actually did 4 mph less per gallon than my gas guzzling 4×4, could not fit in all the kids + shopping so extra journeys and was not as pleasant to drive. I therefore fail to understand why my 4×4 has the generic label gas guzzler whereas a less efficient small petrol car is labelled green. I guess I am just to old for all this blind political correctness.
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Charlotte Dickson [57] – Just interest to enquire if anybody has accepted responsibility for the mess you find yourself in, the Parish or the States. It would be good to get a name of the official responsible and then get a campaign for either a full apology from the Minister / Constable and the sacking of this incompetent Civil Servant responsible for the implementation of this scheme. If he/she cannot get such a simple task correct then serious questions must be asked about their ability to undertake more complex tasks. Perhaps our Chief Minister will take note that here we have a department that requires some serious pruning.
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Sanity – I am talking about green cars such as battery operated cars, or gas powered small cars – cars of the future. Not existing petrol cars what would be the point of that!
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50 Mrs Bead…. a slight overreaction on your part me thinks.
I take it your comments below to Bob Fleming are not “personal” attacks then?
37 “You argument is selfish reasoning on any view.”
47 “I think Ive insulted your intelligence, for that I do not apologise”
Just for the record I have never personally attacked anyone on these forums. I give my opinion and when others disagree with me then so be it….I won’t lose any sleep over it. There are always good reasons for and against any argument and even if I don’t agree with an opinion I like to think I can at least see both sides….something which you seem to fail at.
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This is appalling. Sunday a rest day and is not to be messed with. Leave it alone.
Charlotte I presume a traffic warden booked you? Would they be on double bubble for this? If they are someone needs a good rap over the knuckles we are now in a recession and cannot afford to waste money on extra wages like this.
It would be good to know the names of those responsible for this. Hopefully you can let us all know?
Unfortunately I see this as just typical of the greed culture over here now, you don’t even get a respite on a Sunday anymore. I have to blame the establishment for this as without their agreement this wouldn’t have been started.
Another case of the Ministry of Stupidity striking again. I would have to say that surely if the scratch cards don’t have Sunday’s on them then the fault is all the authorities who are enforcing something which they shouldn’t be?
Maybe they should do as they did when the scratch cards went up originally and everyone wasted their time handing in their scratch cards to get new ones with the higher price on them and paying the difference? That was another mistake by those in charge wasn’t it? You should have heard everyone “f”ing and blinding about those responsible.
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I am of the opinion that ‘environmental issues’ are a complete red herring. Please show me where is all of this pollution ! Ask any Londoner who was around in the 1940/50s about pollution, and they will tell you about the ‘Pea Soupers’ where you could not see or breath!
I am sick to death of this constant environmental garbish. When my son is older, and wants to be dropped somewher in the car, I will be able to decline his request on environmental grounds !
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If it’s only residential areas then that’s fair enough, it’s the same in the UK. The residents need to park every bit as much on a Sunday as any other day of the week, just seems to have been overlooked till now!
Still, no doubt bringing in Sunday trading will cause the States to levy a charge on all Sunday street parking and that will bring them out of alignment with much of the UK.
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BS Deluxe, I stand by those comments you list – when taken in context. They were reactive comments made in my defence. Like the tabloid press you have taken those comments completely out of context!
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I wouldn’t have thought you’d see a parking warden on a Sunday…Where I now live in the U.K., officialdom (the police excepted) has a day of rest on a Sunday.
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Some of these comments are rather confusing.If I am correct this lady was parked in a paycard zone (not a residents zone) and failed to use a paycard as it was Sunday and Sunday is not an option you can fill in as it isn’t on the paycard in the first place.The whole thing is a nonsense and she should be refunded.
On a separate note my husband parked in our nearest city last week and paid for an hour parking.He then decided he needed longer and returned to the car after an hour and asked a nearby traffic warden if he was able to purchase a further hour (nearby sign stated no return within an hour)The warden said that was fine and initialled the ticket giving him a free further hour although my husband tried to pay for a further hour.The warden insisted there was no need and wished him a pleasant day.This was the first warden we had ever seen in 3 years by the way!
Yes it really is awful here in the wicked old UK!!
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I think there needs to be some further clarity to what the RPZ (residents parking scheme) actual is. In each RPZ there are a large number of resident spaces (24×7), their are also a smaller number of PRZ visitor spaces which anyone can use between the hours of 9am till 10pm mon-sun, which 1 unit lasts for 2 hours (yes 2 hours) so in fact these spaces can be of great benifit during the week for visitors to people in the surrounding area, so are not as much of a rip off as people are making out. I would suggest that Charlotte Dickson checks again where she was parked as the picture above was clearly taken in the Cheapside PRZ and is indicating that these are visitor spaces to the right and residents only to the left. If there is any doubt she can check with the parish hall to see if she was parked in the RPZ or not.
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Maybe some education is required on what gas-guzzling actually is. If you drive through 10 miles of residential area going from 0-30mph you’ll use more fuel than driving the same distance at a fairly constant 60mph.
Then there is the fact that cars are not built to be constantly driven at 20mph, I think bicycles were invented for that! Add to that the fact that people in Jersey often drive in the UK and France, this allowance for those with Jersey driving licences would have to be removed altogether if Jersey was to lower its speeds even more, anything else would simply put many lives at risk. It is bad enough that people who have only ever driven at (or below) 40mph can go and drive on the M1 if they choose to! Imagine the effect on the environment of a massive pile up on a busy motorway.
When it comes to cars their efficiency and carbon footprint is not just down to what speed they travel at, not by any stretch of the imagination, to suggest it is simply shows jumping on the bandwagon without bothering to learn about the subject.
I commend genuine consideration for the environment but I have not time for the simplistic view that vehicle speed is the major factor.
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#18, people who truly want to cut down the number of cars will understand that disability badges are currently too restricted and do not encompass fluctuating conditions; that public transport (everywhere) is utterly insufficient; and that almost everyone has times when they absolutely need to have a car (have you never transported heavy items around, had to visit A&E at night but without being bad enough to call an ambulance, needed to go somewhere but not been feeling well enough to walk, or simply had to get somewhere urgently at a moment’s notice) For the number of times these situations arise in the lives of many people it is cheaper to own than to hire.
I would also love to know why families need cars any more than adult individuals… I simply could not find any reason why they would need a car that wouldn’t also apply to everyone I know!
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Yeah, right, so residents who pay for a residents’ parking permit don’t have cars on Sundays! That’s obviously the explanation. Yes, everyone can park in the residential streets of town willy nilly on Sundays because those pesky parishioners don’t have cars on Sundays, they just evaporate, you see. Why would they need a car on Sundays anyway? No problem Saturdays and weekdays, we understand that – the residents display the permits they’ve qualified and paid for, and park in the clearly marked parking bays and we who visit have to use a paycard otherwise there would be a free for all, so we understand that. But, hey, on Sundays we get lucky, because the residents’ cars don’t exist one day in seven. Simple! Crack on!
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Leah Holmes you, like most people on here, have completely misunderstood what I am saying. A typical selfish Jersey response.
Current cars ARE NOT designed to travel at 20MPH I have never mooted that they are capable of doing so and never will.
My 20mph campaign, if it did come into force, Island wide would cause people to purchase cars which could cope with 20MPH or abandon their car altogether – those new cars would be small green, efficient cars, which coud handle low speeds.
I am talking about a way of moving forward into the future. People will not give up their cars unless forced to do so, so we are in a no win situation. That is one of the main factors behind my campaign to force people to act rather than waste time moaning about how they will get there sports equipment around the Island or how they would get to work from first tower to town- COMPRENDE?
ACT NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE
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Warren J, “I am sick to death with all this environmental garbish” I presume you mean garbage?
That said if you were inside a sealed room with, excuse the analogy, a bad case of wind and could not stop farting. How long would it take for the room to fill up with noxious gas? Add to that a serious smoking habit and after a while you would be dead.
The chemical reaction caused by us burning fossil fuel and other chemical reactions brought about by our existance (which are not natural) unbalance the earths natural cycle of pollution and regeneration – the earth, like you in the room above, is not indestructable. Look at what happened to the Dinasaurs who were wiped out when the earths atmosphere was filled full of dust from a Volcanic explosion.
Have you seen that 70s film were the passenger ship turns upside down, and a small group of people go agaisnt the grain and make it to the hull of the ship. Well you are currently leading you and you son and other ignorant blind ship to there deaths and if you dont wake up and smell the Muesli you will die from your own actions.
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Rosemary you are being too soft on them. Soylent Green is everyone’s future if mankind doesn’t get a grip soon.
Fancy eating recycled human beings? Carry on as we are and this is a distinct possibility if everything else becomes extinct by mankind’s greed and stupidity.
One meteorite of 100 metres or more striking the earth’s surface and its goodbye to most life on earth for a few million years or more. I think we are long over due a big one.
Jupiter has been doing us a big favour hoovering up most of the meteorites but one is bound to get through sooner or later… see all the people acting as headless chickens when this happens. Scratch cards wouldn’t be much use then.
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Mrs Bead, I’m Scottish, not Jersey.
I would love to know what cars these are?
Your hope of cars being phased out is fairly pointless. I have an intermittent condition that means that at times I would warrant a disability badge but at other times I wouldn’t. As such the law does not allow me to have one (I wouldn’t really want one either). Conditions like mine are becoming far more common for a number of reasons. Also becoming more common is obesity and the medical problems it can cause, even more people will become disabled through obesity and require cars.
You live in some wonderful bubble where everyone can be served well by public transport, I have lived just 5 miles outside a city centre and still not had remotely useful public transport.
I cannot wish you well in your quest because what we actually need is cars to become more environmentally friendly, cutting speed is not actually a requirement.
My views are not in any way selfish, they are backed up by many motoring organisations who understand that speed alone does not kill, stupidity, carelessness and neglect do… and often these traits are on the pedestrian NOT the motorist.
Jersey would do far better to teach children the green cross code, the number of adults I see flouting it in front of their kids is absolutely shocking.
A speed limit of 20mph will bring with it frustration, lack of concentration and many other problems that will actually CAUSE accidents. And what it will never, EVER stop is DANGEROUS driving. That is here to stay until we teach people to value lives more.
I cannot wish you well in your campaign because I can see the number of accidents it will cause.
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Actually Mrs Bead, FORCE me to give up my car, brilliant idea, I won’t be able to work so I can lay at home and claim benefits are your expense
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There are not many places in Western Europe that would be more vulnerable to even a few weeks interruption in global energy or food supplies than Jersey.
We produce no energy at all and hold very little in the way of stocks.
Food is almost as bad, we produce very little per head and the island’s producers are declining. We are subject to a just in time supermarket supply line and we hold nothing in the way of stocks.
Doubtless there is a plan up in the Chief Minister’s Office that admits islanders would be starving within a fortnight of the boats filled with fuel and food turning up!
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Mrs Bead
I sort of see your point, but my main gripe is that when it comes to Environmental issues, it seems that the blame is always directed towards the motor car and nothing else! No one gives credit to the motor manufacturers who have made great strides over the years, to the point that modern cars realy are much less polluting than those of 20 years ago.
No one criticises thouse who own motor yachts that do about 2 miles to the gallon, or the elderly couple who have their central heating turned up high. The main cause of air pollution over London now is not from cars, but from aircraft landing and taking off from Heathrow.
I personally feel that environmantal issues are a distraction from the big picture. The real issues are overpopulation, ageing population, future pension provision, and rising housing costs, which lead to todays generation ‘giving up’ on establishing a stable family unit, and just shacking up with whoever is available in a rented flat. The children concieved in such circumstances really don’t stand a chance!
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Mrs Rosemary Bead 76
I’m as “Earth-friendly” as you, and I agree with you on many points (but not the 20mph speed limit). However, you shouldn’t try to undermine your opponents by correcting them, it’s impolite (Warren J – garbish to garbage).
Oh, by the way, “existAnce” is spelt with an “E”…not very nice, is it?
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Mrs Rosemary Bead-before you correct other peoples’ spelling just remember it’s their sports equipment and not there. Are you really Simon Crowcroft in disguise?
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I lived in Jersey for 21 years, born and educated.
It beggers belief that you have to pay for parking on a Sunday at all. You can’t buy flowers but they can charge you to park on your day off!
I now live in the UK, a sensible move away from the Island that Taxes you to breath! My, now, local town has free parking 24/7 7 days a week, there are no nasty parking officials, the town attracts far more people including tourists and people stay a lot longer as they don’t have to worry about their scratchcard running out!! Those scratch cards are also a massive environmental nightmare, the person that came up with that idea should be shot! Its unimaginable to think that you’ve got to use those damn cards yet you can’t buy them out of a machine in a car park, u park your car for 2 minutes, run across to the shop to purchase them, get back to the car and find a £60 fine on your windscreen, you might think I’m joking, but it happened to me when I was in Jersey at Christmas 2008 trying to locate a paycard distributor in Sand Street. Maybe they want you to drive around a few more one way streets in St Helier to find a Roberts garage where you can safely stop to buy scratchcards, then drive all the way back to the car park having burnt a load more petrol and polluted the town centre that little bit more.
The States of Jersey have a lot to answer for, maybe they should see what is happening in the UK regarding parking, cars, the environment. Its quite an insight.
(I live in the north of Scotland and its one of the cleanest places I’ve ever lived, fresh air, far less pollution, people cycle and walk to work, the car is only used if really needed, its not an everyday luxury.
Sorry for being so negative, but it bothers me, I love the place where I grew up but its being destroyed by mindless people who don’t care an ounce.
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Disability parking – In the UK I can park for 15 mins on a double yellow line FOR FREE.
I can park in a multistory car park, 50p per hour but my disability badge allows me to park for 2 hours for 50p.
We do generally take longer to get from a to b, I don’t mind paying for parking as long as the time limit is doubled if you have a blue badge.
A lot of people with disabilities, can not work due to their disability, they access shops in town for their personnel needs, not to go to work.
A lot of people with disabilities don’t have the same access to money as a lot of folk in Jersey. Its good to encourage people with disabilities to access the community without having to worry about paycards etc. Difficult subject but I do hope it is thought about properly.
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Dear Mrs Bead
I am afraid you have completetely missunderstood where I am comming from on environmental issues!
I am a very practical person and very mechanically minded. In addition, I have a healthy interest in Economics, and what makes the world go round.
Polution arises from many sources, a significant amount is produced in the manufacturing of consumer goods, which have to be put together, packaged up and transported to the consumer. These goods are generally becoming of poorer quality, in that they don’t last, people don’t repair them and they are soon thrown away, their even poorer replacements start the process all over again – more polution at the manufacturing stage, packaging, transport etc etc. (In the last couple of months, I have managed to fix both our fridge and dishwasher, when a lot of people would have simply gone and bought new)
I will give you an example. Many years ago, Russell Hobbs manufactured the first automatic electric kettle. They were very expensive, but lasted forever. Nowadays. electric kettles cost £20, are made of plastic and last a year if you are lucky. (The kettle in our office lasted 3 months !).
Currently, the UK Government is running a vehicle scrappage scheme, which is very popular with well heeled pensioners, who are buying new Hyundai H1′s and sending their 10 year old Honda Accord with 40,000 miles on the clock to the crusher. A perfectly usable car is being destroyed, to be replaced by somthing that has caused pollution in its maufacture etc etc.
Mrs Bead, I am afraid to tell you that the world is not going to be saved by making everyone drive at 20 mph. Environmental issues are being used as excuses for raising taxes, not giving shoppers bags etc. My earlier refernece to refusing to drop my son somewhere in the car on ‘Environmental Issues’ was simply an example.
What I was really trying to say to my son is that I don’t like you seeing that girl, and if I drop you at her house, I will have to come and pick you up later, and as your mother and I were planning on opening a bottle of wine and having an early night, that will spoil our plans. Rather than convey all of that to a 16 year old, it is much easier to say “You realise that vehicle’s kill the planet, and on that basis, we must all do our bit to save the earth.”
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