Rue de Funchal – decision made
Thursday 30th July 2009, 2:59PM BST.
James Street - soon to be Rue de Funchal
A PROPOSAL to rename James Street to Rue de Funchal was approved at a St Helier Parish Assembly last night, but not before some people claimed it was taking away the Island’s heritage.
Strong opinions were expressed at the meeting, which was attended by about 60 people, but despite that opposition, 30 people voted in favour and 16 against.
At some stages, speakers claimed that comments made about the Portuguese were racist, claims which were strongly denied.
At the end of the meeting, the Roman Catholic Dean, Monsignor Nicholas France, who proposed the road name change, told the JEP that he was very relieved that it would go ahead.
‘A negative vote would have been very damaging to community relations,’ he said.
• See Thursday’s JEP for full story.
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A ludicrous and pointless exercise. How much time has been ‘wasted’ on this? If the feeling is strong enough for a street to be named, then christen on the reclamation site. Everyone will be happy, and there wont be the need for pointless debates on the matter.
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Rue de Funchal? That’s the final straw, I’m through with this Island. Either they change the name back to James Street (Which is a perfectly good name) or I move back to Portugal.
Sometimes this place make me mad! Lol.
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I dont see the point it changing it? Another waste of money on something that really isn’t that important! Money for new road signs new maps etc I thought the states were trying to cut corners to save on spending…maybe instead of taking it out of the budgets they have they will stop heating and food for old people or close another one of the islands services??
Honestly is the change of name really that necessary?? Well the decision has been made now…someone’s grandma is going hungry for the next few months!!!
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I would imagine that this messageboard is going to receive one hell of a hammering in the next few days with negative comments about this item. As I’ve previously stated, I find this whole process to be nauseatingly sycophantic and condescending towards the Portuguese community.
I think the quote says it all : ‘A negative vote would have been very damaging to community relations,’ Yes, but YOU proposed it and as far as I’m aware, you’re not Portuguese!
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“A negative vote would have been very damaging to community relations!”
What a silly and exaggerated statement. Is he suggesting riots on the streets of St Helier if it was decided to leave things as they are? I am sure the Portuguese would have simply shrugged their shoulders and got on with their day.
I would be interested though to know how many of the 30 pro voters were Portuguese.
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Surely the correct name is Rua Funchal or Caminho Funchal?
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Come on Crowcroft don,t stop there, what about Italian,Chinese,German, Polish and Swedish street names as all these countries have given something to the island,or was this just a vote chasing exercise?
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Truly pointless. Will there be a Jersey Street anytime soon in Madeira?
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I find it hard to believe that nationalities who have been given the opportunity to live on a place such as Jersey, have to debate and request the surrender at hundreds of years of hertitage to pacify their countries need to belong. I am also a bit agrieved by the comments made by the Roman Catholic Dean, “that it would have been damaging to community relations” I am quite sure that if I was to reside in Portugal, by choice in a place I wanted to be, it would be my decision to do so and by that understanding I would not assume that the community would or should change the name of one of their streets to maybe “St James Street” because a number of Jersey people reside there.
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Suprise suprise! the local people are ignored again. What am i expecting? That for once the politicians might actually listen to what we are all saying. You would think that they might take into consideration the views of the people who voted for them but I am expecting too much. Damaging to community relations they say, what community relations? any relations that have been built up between jersey people and madeiran people has been destroyed with the politicians lack of thought for how islanders feel. They are a disgrace! as for calling people racist, for voicing an opinion, that just about sums them up.
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I wish Madeira would twin there weather with ours.
Maybe a compromise would be James de Funchal street or “La life enriching” place.
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Finally all the years of doing the jobs Jersey folk won’t do “because we’re better than that & we all want to work in finance” (ie till operators, manual labour, hospitality) the portuguese community is at least getting some recognition. And before you think i’m Portuguese, i’m not, i’m English,but I can see how valuble they are to this island (unlike some narrow-minded locals)
Oh and No.8 – they is a road in Madeira called Jersey… just thought you’d like to know – it’s what they call “twinning” – it’s when good mannered & friendly people see that we are all in one human race & therefore peace & goodwill is better than arogancy & small-mindedness.
By the way Madeira is a beautiful island like Jersey. go there, you may open your eyes!
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Brilliant news! Well done to all those who supported this.
The Portuguese and Madeirans have contributed to this island for a long time and this should be seen as a little but symbolic gesture of gratitude. A good step forward.
I presume all those that disagree will not attend the Portuguese food fare; but who am I kidding – this island is full of hypocrisy.
And to all those saying about “Rua Jersey” in Madeira, what has any Jersey person done for them? Nothing!
It’s a pity that the rest of island decisions are not as pro-active as this!
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im 100% sure that if we all knew the decision making meeting was taking place, there would have been more than 46 people there! What waste of time. ‘Rue De’ is French, and ‘Funchal’ madeiran?! whoever though of this what were they thinking?!
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Roman catholic dean…indeed, what is he doing messing in these type of issues,he’d be better off trying to get punters into his churches which are dwindling again, though perhaps was this a ploy to get the Madeiran attendance up……
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If Monsignor France wanted to make a politically correct gesture towards our Madeiran population, surely a far better option would have been for him to have renamed St. Thomas’ Church. May I suggest ‘Our Lady of Fatima Church’.
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“It should be named after Lillie Langtry or something else which meant something to the island”
“The island’s heritage is being taken away.”
Is this the same heritage that gave us Brighton Rd,Bath St.,Gloucester St.,Devon Avenue,
Devonshire Place,Dorset Lane, New York Lane, New Zealand Avenue,Paris Lane,Winchester St and York St.?
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I think it’s a good idea to rename the street to Rue de Funchal. I enjoy spending time in James Street, probably one of my favourite streets over here with it’s character, bars, clubs, shops and general ambience. To rename it with a mediteranean twist is a stroke of genius from the boys up top.
I for one am certainly looking forward to spending some quality time there with my young family.
Here’s to Rue de Funchal, and hopefully more of the same in future – can I suggest renaming Garden Lane to Sporting Lisbon Lane next?
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“A negative vote would have been very damaging to community relations!” Why? Seriously why? I’m not petty enough to live somewhere for decades just to get upset when no-one suggests naming a street after my home town, are we to believe that the Madeirans are petty or something.
Get Real Jersey and Andy, your comments are totally fine were it not for the lack of street names related to Italy (immigrants from there preceded the Madeirans), oh, and let’s not forget that we have basically offended Bad Wurzach! Then there are the Irish and Scottish. I have to admit it does seem that the Madeirans have been particularly singled out for special treatment and I find that distinctly odd and rather offensive. I don’t recall the Parish Hall hosting a celebration of Scotland, Ireland or Italy’s national days either.
There shouldn’t have been potential for a negative vote because the situaton shouldn’t have arisen, a street was available to be named and Bad Wurzach was already on the lookout for a street to give its name to. Problem solved and no offense caused to anyone, see how easy it could have been!
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If there’s a best way to stir up discrimination then Jersey has truly found it. It’s to use ‘positive discrimination’ and single out one nation for special treatment while ignoring many other nations (that preceded it and are just as deserving) without ever justifying why that nation deserves to be singled out.
Way to go folks! I’m beginning to think some officials really are out to conquer and divide.
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Well having read the further comments, its still a waste of time and money, when a new street could have named with no fuss. Has anyone actually thought through the finer details? Every resident will have to inform numerous companies, Banks etc about the change. This will take time and money for all involved. Driving Licenses will have to updated at whatever it is a pop these days. So much for saving money and cutting back! Roll on Jersey!
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This is a wonderful idea!
I love the fact that States members can decide to rename a street in the town and within a couple of weeks it’s agreed. Why James Street though? It’s an absolute dump with nothing but the dregs of society loitering around. It stinks and is dirty.
A good idea would be to bring ‘Quids Inn’ back, now there is some clientele who would improve the surrounding area no end, certainly more than is seen currently.
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Any exercise such as the present relies upon the consent of the people.
Yes, let the parish put up a new sign. But, if you don’t agree, don’t use the new name. Similarly, businesses in James street can continue to cite their address as James street.
If the population ignore the new name, it will effectively fail and, in time, any new signs may well disappear!
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What are the priorities of the people who (poorly) run this Island? Valuable, and worthwhile services, and jobs (Patient Transport Services etc) are being threatened, due to funding issues, and the fact they don’t make huge profits, and we are wasting time and money on changing a street name. It is irrelevant what it will be changed to, it is the fact that it is even being done at all. A complete farce. Again. Of course, this will require various members of the establishment to make visits to Madeira to further enhance our international relations, won’t it?! At our expense, more than likely.
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I’m pleased that our Madeiran friends have achieved much deserved recognition, but the question remains as to whether historic street names are part of a heritage that should be protected and listed just as historic buildings are.
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A few home truths for some of the contributors to this message board:
the name change won’t cost the parish anything unless you are going to grouse about the cost of a new road sign; the street is due for refurbishment anyway, and there is private sector investment planned in the derelict properties which will bring new housing into it;
the parish meeting was well advertised and there’s probably been more awareness of this subject than many in recent months, first of all when the Roads Committee published its OPEN AGENDA (how many other Parishes do that, pray?) in the JEP, and then when it published the notice of the meeting – if people want to be notified by email of upcoming meetings with similar earth-shattering decisions being made they only have to go onto the Parish website (www.sthelier.je) and register their email;
there are no losers from this decision – Jersey’s rich multicultural heritage will be a little richer; people will, in due course, not have to qualify where they mean when they say ‘St James Street’ (or do I mean James Street?); and the many Madeiran families who have been supporting the Jersey economy for half a century will be thankful that there has been, at last, some recognition of their contribution, and a celebration, albeit on a small scale (you would think we were renaming Victoria Avenue) of the new twinning of St. Helier with Funchal.
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Does it really matter? Who actually goes to James Street? It’s not like it’s Victoria Avenue being renamed.
Aside from that, I don’t know why you’re all stressing about it. I very much doubt the Portuguese population have taken the whole debate as personally!
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#13 Andy,
Are you suggesting that everyone came to work in Jersey just to help us poor locals out. The people who have come to Jersey from anywhere in Europe do so because the wages are better than they can get for doing the same job. Why don’t you ask all the people who lost their jobs to people prepared to work for considerably smaller amounts how they feel about how these contributions to the island have been made?
Like many people have commented and I agree with them, I don’t think there is anything wrong with devoting a road to the recognition of the twinning between the two towns but simply disagree that an existing name should be changed only causing expenditure on all the necessary changes when at the end of the day most people will still refer to it as James St.
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Well I have to say that I am not at all bothered about wether they change the name of the street or not.
What does bother me is that they intend to redevelop the area and make it part pedestrian area. Similar to what they have done opposite Cyril Le Marquand house. Which i might add took nearly 6months to complete and cost tens of thousands and too be honest looks no better then what was originally there.
I think the time has come in Jersey for the parish halls to relinquish their funds to the treasurer and for the island to be run as a simgle place where works like these are carried out by TTS and within the entire islands best interest rather then each parish doing what they think is right.
These funds could be better used to keep vital health employees in their jobs rather then making a tiny street slightly more appealing to the 2 drunks that happen to pass out in it.
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The Madeiran’s are just the latest in a long line of economic immigrants. They did not wake up one morning in Funchal and think “I am going to go to Jersey to help those poor people out”. They come here to better their lot in life.
The Polish do the same, the Italians, the Scots, the English and the Irish. Other nations will surely follow.
So thank you for what you have done but you have been paid to do it. You have a better quality of life now I presume otherwise you would return home or move elsewhere.
You can now stare up with pride at your new road sign and wonder why they put it up on what is probably the grottiest street in St Helier.
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9,10 and 14 you have hit the nail on the head. what a load of rubbish! I thought it was a joke when i heard! i can’t belive it what is wrong with this island i have lived hear all my life and it used to be such a lovely island but slowly but surely the States are destroying it!!!
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More importantly will the St James Wine Bar now be called the Funchal Wine Bar????? I think we should be told!!!!
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It’s true that local immigrant communities contribute immensely to the local economy and society, but there are far better ways to express gratitude and appreciation than to foreignise local place-naming; take gatronomical and folklore events, for instance, they can be frequented and enjoyed by outsiders and locals alike without causing offence.
I am convinced that many islanders will take offence at this decision, which will actually have a detrimental effect in that it will create the impression that local immigrant communities do not need to integrate.
I see no need for a Rue de Funchal any more than for a Gdansk Avenue. Immigrants should respect the fact that the best way to be respected and admired is to contribute to the island but without feeling the need to influence it with an excessive ammount of their cultural and emotional baggage.
Being of immigrant extraction myself, I never felt well integrated (although some of my counterparts were luckier in this respect),which is precisely one of the reasons why I decided not to return to Jersey after leaving university on the mainland.
The other point is that, sometimes, immigrant communities tend to be passing phases – will Jersey end up with a Vilnius Place if it receives a large number of workers from the Baltic states? Would they change Vilnius Place to Istambul Place if the Baltic immigrants were superseded by Anatolians?These are all pertinent issues which I think the St. Helier parish assembly may not have fully considered.
Rue de Funchal doesn’t even sound logical – it sounds like a kind of Franco-Portuguese pastiche of a word!
I wish the powers that be in Jersey considered the opinions of the wider community before making these decisions.
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Ok apparently this is a hot topic, I don’t think the real argument here is the changing of the street name. I think its more a vehicle for people to express their racist opinions and have a dig at either non-Jersey born people or the states.
1. Communities do contribute to the island, but not by working. Everyone works (apart from those few who depend on benefits cuz getting out of bed is too much effort). But they do contribute to the island culturally. It is nice to attend things like the food faires and parties hosted by other communities and we can share cultures. How is this a bad thing? If you don’t want to mix with people from somewhere other then Jersey you don’t have to (your quite a sad person) but you don’t have to.
2. For those people who say that they have lost their jobs to a workforce willing to work harder for less? Well im sorry but that’s your fault not theirs! Im tired of listening to people whinge about how they expect some “special” treatment or extra rights because they were born in Jersey. This is ludicrous! If people pay their taxes and respect the laws then they have as much right as anyone else, If an employer chooses to fire you and hire someone who is more efficient then maybe you need to up your game! Then there are those people who keep saying the state ignore what the people want? The people?? You mean you! The people implies your taking into consideration EVERYONE! Not just the Jersey people! We all had a chance to vote, but as most people here do, we moan and moan but do nothing about it!
3. I think the Portuguese in particular have had a bad ride in Jersey. They do seem to be the target of most issues of this nature and im not really sure why? I think that renaming a street is a small gesture to say “your welcome here” and I don’t care if there’s not a street in Portugal named Jersey or James street.
4. For all those people saying that the states are wasting money and time changing street names instead of helping the budget cuts etc. I see your point but I think the point your not seeing is that running an island like Jersey is like Juggling a million balls! You think just because there is one issue that is burning we should ignore all others? This is the sort of things the states must deal with every day, I think all need to be reminded that we cant always have it our way. Like my mum always used to say. “You cant please all of the people all of the time.”
I think we all need to wake up and realise that the world is a constantly changing place (that includes Jersey) and we can either the change and welcome people and culture to the island, and hey maybe we can learn from each other
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One story I wanted to share with everyone is this:
A few weeks ago I went out with a group of friends. We had a few drinks in an extremely noisy crowded pub and then spent the next hour waiting in the rain to get into the Royal Yaught. While people were getting pushed and shoved and people we so drunk they were being sick in the streets and other people were fighting I decided I had had enough of the so called “nightlife” Jersey offers and decided to go home.
On the way home I walked pass a café that was full of Portuguese people which seemed to be a mixture of family and friends, everyone was laughing and joking and having a chat and just socialising! I looked in and could not see a single beer or glass of wine in sight. There was no security on the door as it wasn’t needed and there was no rubbish lying on the street outside. At first I thought what the hell a people doing sitting in a café sipping coffee on a Friday night? But then as I continued my walk home it hit me. Maybe if I put myself in their shoes and looked out at “us” they would be thinking “why do they have to get so drunk every time it’s a Friday night?” Im not suggesting these people were holy and couldn’t ever get drunk or do something wrong but.. It seems a much nicer culture to see drinking and partying as something to do for an occasion other than I don’t have work tomorrow I better get p*ssed.
This is one example of culture that we could benefit from. All the asbos and drinking laws in the world wont stop the increasing drinking problem that the UK (and Jersey) has. We need to change our way of life to make alcohol not such a big part of it and Family and friends a greater part of it.
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As a wee Scottish lad who has spent most of his adult life in the beautiful and hospitable island of Madeira, I can inform that the adjacent street to my own is called Rua de Baden Powell, complete with a red uk postbox !! All xenophobes, bigots and racists can easily confirm this with a quick search on google
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When will some of you realise that it is not racist to question the idea of changing a street name?
We mostly agree a new road would be a good idea, but to replace an existing road?? If the issue was between St James and James street then why not simply chane one to a more gallic name (in line with our own heritage) … Rue de Jacques perhaps?
JsyBoy
You talk about embracing other cultures but what about our own? Why do we have to keep giving ours up, losing our identity to accommodate others?
In my opinion “when in Rome….”.
A lot of foreign nationals do not WANT to integrate and don’t even bother to learn the language. How many times have you been in a shop and been rudely ignored whilst some workers have personal conversations in their native tongue. This is not cultural…it is rude and ignorant.
Integration is a two way street (excuse the pun)!
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The Bible declares “That whosoever sojourneth with Israel, if he keeps the law, he is entitled to [share in] the blessings of the Land.”
Likewise, if you come to jersey and want to share in the blessings of our Island, then you are welcome to join with us and become a part of our Jersey community. One does this by simply accepting the common law of the land, learn to speak our language, acknowledge our traditional customs, respect our Norman moral values, heritage and general culture – whether you like any or not is irrelevant.
For those from the UK who have pushed and crowded their way into the island, may you be reminded that many generations ago, our own Jersey ancestors chose to become British, but unlike anyone or anywhere else, our ancestors chose to do so upon their own terms and traditions. This for the benefit of the above, means that we are not English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Anglo-Norman or Franks – We are Norman, and if it isn’t too much to ask, we would like to preserve our heritage, moral culture, language and traditions, not simply in a museum or archive run by some imported over paid expert, but would rather see it keep it alive through our general day to day Island way of life.
In the mean time, for those who have immigrated here from other countries and seek to divide our traditional community and cause strife by rejecting our cultural values and hospitality in favour of creating their own separate social or ethnic communities, albeit Rich, Poor, Portuguese, Polish or whatever, and then start making demands that I and my fellow native Islanders should for some unbeknown reason pay homage and make concessional allowances for foreign values that our forefathers knew not and that we should begin to regard ourselves as some sort of politically correct multicultural ‘moral relative’ miss-mash – then I would clearly say to you; go to hell!
While everyone should be free to worship however they please, so long as it does not cause harm, injury to others or unlawfully deprive anyone of their property, I would remind the foreign clergy behind the pinheaded idea to rename one our St. Helier streets, that first, Jersey already has a Dean and one is definitely enough! Personally I would prefer a very clear Jeffersonian separation of Church and State – but that’s a discussion for another time. The renaming of any part of this Island, is something that takes place over a period of time through living tradition and always in accordance with native consent and none else.
By citing the sick pinheaded philosophy of Multiculturalism and Moral Relativism as a basis for promoting this coarse idea, the Island, if it continues to listen to such rubbish, will become a deliberately divided community, which in turn will cause strife, promote more oppressive politically correct regulations and bureaucratic controls that will eventually undermine our Sovereignty depriving us of both Freedom and Dignity and a demand for increased taxation.
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Perhaps you should show some more pride in your own culture….it’s not all about getting drunk on a Friday night (which BTW isn’t exclusive to Jersey…..in every country on the planet there are people letting their hair down and enjoying themselves in their own way).
Jersey and UK has a great history and a lot to be proud of. Don’t be brainwashed by all the PC brigade (and Hollywood) who want to re-write the history books. There is not one country that doesn’t have it’s shame to hide, but we all move on and learn from it instead of hiding and pretending it didn’t happen. Just look at Japan and Germany!
I am getting so fed up with people who are too scared and embarassed of their own culture.
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If they had to rename any street in favour of the Portuguese community then I agree with a previous poster – they should have gone the whole hog and called it Rua Funchal. Rue de Funchal just sounds stupid.
Perhaps it would have been more appropriate however to rename Minden Street as that is where the Portuguese have tended to gather for the longest time, plus they already have an established and popular restaurant there.
The fact that, as the JEP reported, the name change was agreed despite much opposition really p**ses me off. This is just typical of Jersey “polititians”, and is possibly one of the main reasons why the majority don’t bother to vote.
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All praise Jersey Bull (38). For he is THE MAN!!
At least I think he must be – that couldn’t possibly have been written by a woman!!
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Same old, same old. Someone wants to come across as particularly PC so accuses everyone else of racism, xenophobia, bigotry while completely ignoring the fact that singling out just ONE nation (from all the other immigrants that have come here) is exactly that!
In my mind there is no such thing as ‘positive’ discrimination, it’s either discrimination or it isn’t and if it is then it shouldn’t be allowed, it certainly should not be carried out publicly by a Parish!
As for the bit about UK folks pushing their way in, many of us understand fully Jersey’s Norman history and try to embrace it (I do not see other nationalities doing this), we do not all consider you to be part of Britain and expect you to have the same customs. I’m Scottish and my heritage and customs are extremely different to that of my English friends. Life on my home island is very different even to mainland Scotland.
Anyway, we don’t ‘push’ our way in, like Jersey is some superior place we are all desperate to be! Many Jersey young people go to the UK to study and I will be far from the only UK person who fell in love with someone from Jersey while they were over. The UK residents in Jersey probably have the highest percentage of those who came here to be with the person they love, rather than just to take advantage of your tax system. Still, you clearly have a chip on your shoulder about the UK for some reason, maybe you would prefer a Jersey law that only allows inbreeding?
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So how about a rue de la Gay Pride then
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Jersey Bull thankfully your views are shared by an ever increasing minority.
I am from Scotland, born and raised by a big Scottish family originating from Germany. My mother is from Jersey with a family history in Jersey going back to before 1066.
I contribute to local charity and pay taxes to the Island, I have no quals.
What class of immigrant am I in your opinion, am I am immigrant or am I from Jersey, who is actually from Jersey and how far back do they have to go? I challenge you to answer this and come out fom under your Rock.
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Mistershifter at number 21; “Every resident will have to inform numerous companies” as to the change of street name.
Good comment, but I am a resident of St James Street and I will not be informing anyone of any so-called name change.
So far as I am concerned, the purported name change is a nullity and a nonsense. St James street it remains for me. If enough people do the same, then this ridiculous exercise will be rendered nugatory.
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Completely agree with 38 Jersey Bull
Anway now that this change had been agreed why is it a mix of french & portugese? It sounds daft.
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no 38 A very interesting take on history. Are you seriously suggesting Jersey chose to be British and not the other way round? Do you really think that Jersey had any say in the matter?
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Jersey Bull 38.
I’m so tempted, so very tempted to say something in defence of “the invaders”, but I won’t because you are far too upset.
Anyway, see if you can get a chance to listen to John Lennon’s Anthem to peace “Imagine”, it says it all and it’ll do you the world of good!
Have a nice weekend! Peace
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Jersey Bull 38 and jerseydottie 46
Especially for you…
“IMAGINE” (John Lennon)
Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one
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Not a problem if that is the will of the majority. My only concern is with the following from the article:
“At the end of the meeting, the Roman Catholic Dean, Monsignor Nicholas France, who proposed the road name change, told the JEP that he was very relieved that it would go ahead.
‘A negative vote would have been very damaging to community relations,’ he said.”
If the proposition had never been brought, no risk of “damaging community relations” would have arisen.
“As ye sow, so shall ye reap.”
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I’m really pleased Jersey is becoming more multicultural, I love walking the streets hearing all these foreign tongues, we need more diversity to spice up the gene pool
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Born Warrior, most killing is not about religion or countries… it’s about power, ownership, jealousy.
It’s a nice song, but it’s just that ‘a nice song’.
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Some of the statements made about the Portugese were racist? It’s clear from this website that anyone who wishes to value and hang onto any of Jersey’s culture is automatically called racist. Personally I think someone moving to a new country and making no effort to integrate with the culture and values of that country is the actual racist. Can we stop banding the word around like it’s nothing and just use it when it is actually racism? Otherwise we are just belittling real racism.
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An earlier contributor (45) states he won’t be informing people of the change of street name. Just as well given he lives in St James Street!
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47 Dave,
Are you suggesting that Jersey had no say at all in the matter? You clearly need to read up on your history.
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Leah
“Still, you clearly have a chip on your shoulder about the UK for some reason, maybe you would prefer a Jersey law that only allows inbreeding?”
Who is being racist now? Double-standards me thinks!
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On another note Leah, are you suggesting that the Portuguese don’t bother to integrate? I agree, it is out of order that people with things in common should socialise with each other. I think we should shut down the Portuguese club, Alfonsos and all the other Irish/Scottish pubs & associations around the Island. We should introduce a law that prohibits gatherings of more than 5 people that aren’t Jersey born.
Furthermore, positive discrimination actually relates to policies that try to readdress the socio-economic disadvantages of minority groups. I fail to see how the average Portuguese immigrant is going to gain any socio-economic advantage over somebody from the UK because of a street name. I don’t really see that it will help them get a better job or a better education.
Why can’t Jersey single out the Portuguese community? You can’t accuse people of being PC when in the same breath say that its not fair on the other communities. That’s the sort of woolly-lefty PC thinking that you’re complaining about.
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40 Dian – Remember “French Lane” (Hilgrove La) – it came, it gathered, it graciously melted away – leaving fond memories!
44 Human?? – As long as you recognize and respect the host garden in which you sojourn – you are welcome to the blessings of our Island – as for your maternal history, suggesting 1066 shows that you exaggerate or know very little about our local family records – nice try.
47 Dave – It was and is still our choice – though Dominion Status might be better suited for our current situation.
53 Lea Holmes – Spot on – call it like it is, because this is a beast that has to be openly confronted.
Thank you all for your response.
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Leah Holmes
“Imagine” is about sharing and the brotherhood of man, which both bring peace…
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No 55. I believe it was mainly a fait acompli, although a few prominent Jerseymen may have had a little influence on events(mainly for their personal asvancement), but the Island as a whole has never had a choice in the matter – it would be interesting if it did.
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It is clear what should now be done. St James Street should immediately be renamed St Funchal street James Road [the one near Mont Millais] should be renamed Funchal Road.
And the history books should be rewritten in order to rename King James as King Funchal.
It doesn’t matter what the public thinks. Let’s just do it anyway.
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This kind of thing just stirs up racial trouble.
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Mr France said, “‘A negative vote would have been very damaging to community relations,’ when discussing the forthcoming public vote.
Wasn’t he taking an unwise and high handed risk?
His no doubt well intentioned idea was set to cause much trouble and has not brought credit on any of the persons involved.
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Leah Holmes
My tongue-in-cheek post(48) was for Jersey Bull (38), who seemed really het-up about this half-hearted attempt to please the Portuguese community.
As for accusations of xenophobia…well how silly…I mean, one just has to just read some of the posts to see how welcome “the invaders” are.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…if it hadn’t been for the “Brits” and the allied forces in WW2 (Poland was “First to Fight” – well done Poland), Jersey would have become an extension of Germany…and today, Hiltler’s grandchildren would be marching down “Geobbals Strasse” down to “Aldolf” Platz singing “Deucheland, Deucheland”…never mind “Imagine”.
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As the son of an Austrian mother and a Portuguese father, I am pleased to note the linguistic mix in the new street name.
As for Saint James Street, that also begins with a French word (as in “Paroisse de Saint ….etc)
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Well, I think this has certainly damaged community relationships because I have Scottish, Irish and Liverpudlian friends and they all feel insulted by the fact that nobody has talked about recognising their contribution to the Island.
This is tokenism of the most patronising type and I hope all those involved hang their head in shame. But I bet they don’t care – they’re already looking forward to a jolly to Madiera as “dignitaries from afar” to mark this “important recognition of the contribution Maderians have played to the development of Jersey”.
As ever, this is nothing to do with anything other than upstarts on a self-inflation mission.
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What about the french who did all the farm work for decades? why not in the french version of st.james.
Also the irish who built all the roads and structures.all very hard work.
At least they did spend their money here and not sent it home.
I too think it is an insult to these other immigrants that have made Jersey their home.
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I, like other fellow scots on this forum, am employed to do a job for which it was not possible to source a local person to fill the vacancy. However, very much unlike fellow Scots on this forum, I have no illusions of self importance or self righteousness.
Really, I feel I must question what is intrinsically wrong with being PC when the subject of discussion is race relations.
I understand that there are many wonderful ways for cultures to socialise here in Jersey, but so many of them seem to be alcohol fuelled (which frequently involves drinking to the verge of unconciousness).
A great majority of the Portuguese culture is based on the Coffee shop mentality. Families mix, talk and rarely find the need to rely on alcohol.
I suggest that some of my very obviously intolerant countrymen could learn a lot by taking the example of Portuguese culture.
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“positive discrimination actually relates to policies that try to readdress the socio-economic disadvantages of minority groups”
That’s the bull that allows it to continue. It’s in the title qwert ‘discrimination’!!!! You can dress it up however you want but I’m for fairness and equality not minority groups getting special treatment, that causes more segregation. When Governments wake up and see ‘positive discrimination’ for what it really is the world will be a much better place.
And I have chosen NOT to benefit from positive disability discrimination in my own working life. In fact I have had concerns in the past upon being offered an interview, whether or not I was actually good enough or whether they were just legally bound to interview me because I had a ‘disability’.
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Sorry Born Warrior
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I honestly don’t see that this is a problem. We should welcome forign workers to the island and celebrate them being here. I think the next step should be to rename Green Island to Robben Island in celebration of our South African workers too.
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Simon: I’m afraid this road is not being correctly renamed. Instead of “Rue DE Funchal” we should read “Rue DU Funchal”. Funchal is a masculin noun and, as such, you can’t have “DE” but “DU” (de le, is never used, it has to be contracted and gives origin to “DU”). Please, do it correctly!
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Michael, I sense a little tongue-in-cheek in your message but I could be wrong.
What strikes me about Jersey is that of all the different nationalities of people I’ve got to know, the majority of individuals do feel welcome. ‘Celebrating’ immigrants (like myself) seems a bit of an unnecessary expense though, why not just make it clear that Jersey celebrations are for all residents, new or old.
I’ve only met a few individuals who don’t feel welcome, but asking around it’s become obvious why that is and the problem lies with them, not Jersey. The problem has not been nationality or culture it has been nature. Of course it can be easier to blame it on xenophobia but maybe sometimes we’re not liked because we’re not nice? I do know Jersey people who no longer feel welcome and they all have quite valid reasons for this. It’s not about nationality or race it’s often down to a simple smile and friendly service. Something that a nice person will offer, no matter what their nationality.
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No 66. I don’t think the Scotish can complain, there is Caladonia pl, Balmoral avenue, Balmoral drive, and a Midlothian close.
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64 Born Warrior
Jersey is part of the British Isles and so we too are “Brits”. Many Jersey folk fought and died in WW2 also. My grandfather, a local lad, was in the RAF.
I’m not sure if you are being ignorant or just oblivious to historical fact, but Jersey WAS actually an extension of Germany during the war…..the famous Occupation of Jersey may ring a bell. Do you notice all those german bunkers dotted around the island and wonder who built them?
Paris was liberated in August 1944 and it took almost another year to free Jersey…..why so long…….thank you England and Poland? Poland may have been the “first to fight” because it was the invasion of Poland by the germans that started the war!
So please clarify your point and what relevance WW2 has on this thread.
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66 Mad Foetus.
What’s up?
Not on the guest list for the jolly?
They’ve reserved a place for me to represent the less well off!
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Jersey Bull,
Can you dispute my claim that my mothers Jersey family history goes back to 1066 – I think not.
There are only 5,000 (approx.) Jersey passport holders in Jersey who have Jersey born parents and grandparents. The other 85,000 are not Jersey people in your sense – they hold predominantly UK passports.
There is a minority of Polish and Portuguse, who mainly come over in the summer season to carry out the work the 5,000 Jersey passport holders cannot be bothered to do.
Jersey passport holders will eventually die out. There will only be UK passport holders, yes they may be domiciled in Jersey but eventually everyone will have a UK passport.
The Portuguese and Polish, Scots, Scousers, Irish, and Welsh keep your economy bouyant and make you Island work, they also widen the ever decreasing gene pool.
I expect you to give a Braveheart type response to this post but, this isnt Scotland and you are not Mel Gibson – you are making small minded comments on an anomynous blog viewed by a few thousand people(at best).
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Linguistic Issue, baked beans have a better grasp of the French language than you. Rue de Funchal is grammatically correct. What are you going on about?
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Human, it is, of course, worth bearing in mind that some Jersey people CHOOSE to get passports from whatever nation they are possibly can (outwith Jersey), for the obvious reason. Doesn’t mean they aren’t Jersey, just they realise that the system messed with them!
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Dave, I’m going to guess that these Scottish place names did not come about through one sudden decision by some official?
My home island has Norwegian place names, but it was once under Norwegian rule, that’s part of its history.
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I’ve just noticed in the phone book that there are actually about 8 different La Verte Rue’s dotted around the island, Can we please think up of some alternative names as I am so confused.
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Leah Holmes, you go on about Jersey culture and how people coming here should intergrate. Are you suggesting that when jersey folk go abroad we all learn the language and culture of those far off places! double standards my dear!
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Des, were you a bit bored this morning perhaps? Following your lead, I actually looked up the James Street Wine bar in the phone book only to discover that it’s actually bizzarely called the St James Wine Bar! I couldn’t understand how people could get the 2 street names confused, but if the actual residents don’t know the difference then there’s no hope.
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I seem to be reading an awful lot about Jersey Culture and Jersey Heritage. I have to say Jersey people seem to be a little selective about their heritage. Given the amount of local attractions being closed down there seems little interest in local history except when claiming some sort of martyrdom under German occupation which appears far from the truth if independent comment is to be believed.
History and heritage is a moving feast; yesterday’s future is today’s history and the Portuguese community have been here long enough to qualify as part of this island’s heritage (as well as its present and future).
Going back to the war years, quite frankly given some of the thinly disguised attitudes apparent on this site I would have been extremely upset at one drop of British blood had been shed in defence of this self-absorbed, self-important little rock.
If anything the renaming of James Street in all its tatty mediocrity is an insult to the Portuguese community who have just like the West Indians in the UK been used to perform the jobs considered too menial for the locals, whilst labour from the UK,Ireland and the rest of the world fills the positions in finance requiring more intelligence to perform than the locals possess!
Jersey and its locals has grown fat on the sweat of Europe whether intellectual or physical and needs to answer some serious questions about its racist attitude!
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BS Deluxe
Exactly…I said “Brits”!
Not English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish but “BRITS”, Channel Islands included!
Young men who fought for freedom!
NO! Boys who fought for freedom!
My mother’s cousin went down on the HMS Hood, my father was an officer in Burma(the forgotten war)…need I go on (better not, I have rather a large family).
So don’t give me “I know all about the war”…because if there’s one thing I REALLY DON’T NEED, it’s “WW2 history lessons”.
Oh, by the way, Poland was not the first country to be invaded BUT IT WAS the “First to Fight” and stand up to tyranny.
As for Jersey being an extension of Germany during WW2, I disagree (I am neither ignorant nor oblivious to historical fact), Jersey was occupied territory which is very different…that is why I used the past conditional rather than the simple past tense.
If Europe (Jersey included) is free today, it’s thanks to the men and boys who fought (your grandfather included), and to those who lost their lives.
And if you really can’t see what relevance their scarifice has to this thread, then I am not going to be the one to enlighten you.
P.S. Your grandfather has probably already explained why Jersey was left undefended and why its liberation was not immediate, so I presume your question was rhetorical and doesn’t require an answer.
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Why does anyone care, I would not have noticed if it wasnt for the JEP and people on this website making a big deal out of it. its just one street name. To me it seems pointless but it can’t do any harm.
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Born Warrior
I am not trying to give you a history lesson. I know enough to get me by, but, admittedly I am no expert.
However, it is widely accepted that WW2 did start on 1/9/39 when Germany invaded Poland (although Austria could be debatable). My grandfather fought in Africa and lived there for many years after so he never explained to me why the British government decided not to liberate Jersey before 9/5/45…..but as they say “that’s history”!
Maybe I misread your comment, and I apologise if I did, but I took it as a swipe at Jersey in that we should be ever so thankful to not be speaking German.
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Boris 84,
Do you have any idea how self righteous and contradictory your post is?
Jersey students consistently out perform their UK counterparts in all areas of academic education, So much for your dumb local’s theory. The reason Boris, (which you fail to grasp) that Jersey needs to import labour from the UK (like you, I assume) is because the finance industry has been so successful that there were clearly not enough locals to do all the jobs. I am not aware of anyone that I know who is Jersey born, and is working in a “menial job” as you so put it.
The fact that large amount of people coming from the UK take these “menial Jobs” totally contradicts your point. I worked at Safeway in my younger years as a part-timer and there were large amounts of staff that were from the UK (So much for us needing people from the UK for their intellect eh?).
Jersey has boomed many times throughout its history without the help of UK workers. The cod trade years are one example and the tourism trade is another. Jersey did not need self-righteous, holier then thou people like yourself to save us from starving to death back then did they? It was Jersey, when part of Normandy, conquered England in 1066 that we showed the resident uncivilised Anglo-Saxon tribes a thing or two about civilization.
You complain about Jersey Locals being racist, (A sweeping statement I might add) but your post reeks of a xenophobic attitude to anyone who is local. A tad hypercritical, especially when I have seen this, and other posts made by you with the negative attitude to anyone who is Jersey born.
In conclusion, you must resist from thinking so highly of yourself and insisting you’re here to save us from being a third world country in europe.
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Human, you can try hard to think everything is double standards and be patronising if you want, it smacks somewhat of desepration.
When I go abroad (and even then it is only ever for relatively short periods of time) I speak the language as much as possible! I have friends who live in the Netherlands, Nepal, Argentina, all born and raised in the UK to British families and ALL of whom speak the language of where they now live. It’s called common decency I believe, but it’s something that each generation seems to produce a little less of.
Were I living abroad I would most certainly make becoming fluent a priority.
Of course many countries simply expect incomers to speak the language if they wish to take up employment there and it doesn’t seem to cause much of a fuss. For some reason it’s only when people are expected to learn English that it seems to become a problem!
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Boris, I guess the thing is that culture has little to do with museums, it’s part of daily life.
We’ve still to get an explanation as to why the first available street wasn’t named after Bad Wurzach!
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BS Deluxe
No BS Deluxe, All of Europe should be ever so thankful to not be speaking German.
However, if you read comments 48, 49, 52, 59, and 64, you will see that this all started with a tongue-in-cheek comment about John Lennon’s song “Imagine”…
It’s true what they say…a little push is enough to start a War!
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“Are you suggesting that when jersey folk go abroad we all learn the language and culture of those far off places!”
Are you seriously suggesting people shouldn’t? I would really love to see you try out that attitude in Nepal, Indonesia, Italy… It’s the same arrogant attitude that makes foreign nations dislike the British, which goes to show that its not just Jersey that want ‘incomers’ to try and integrate, it’s a worldwide thing.
Boris, such comments about intelligence of Jersey people only tend to come out of you when you get a little annoyed? Thing is, are these your genuine feelings about Jersey people on the whole? If so then people around you may well pick it up from your body language.
Jersey is every bit as intelligent as any other nation. However, as a small nation with an extremely limited number of industries for young people to go into it loses many of its more academic people to other countries. I wonder if these kids harp onto their ‘host nations’ about how they came to help out cause the locals weren’t smart enough? Somehow I doubt it!
Of course, some stay, or some return and simply work outwith their degree field (I know one of each, both of whom I would happily pit against anyone in an intelligence test). Of course if you judge someone’s intelligence by their job you’ll never know who is or isn’t intelligent.
It does surprise me that so many people seem to be suggesting that the finance industry is full of Einsteins does the industry intentionally recruit arrogant people or does it create them? I’m sure plenty of Jersey people are perfectly intelligent enough to go into finance but have no interest in doing so (not surprising really when they grow up surrounded by one main industry). And if this kind of attitude is one that the industry encourages then it will put a lot of people off.
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82 Human – Re: Your swipe at Leah Holmes. She makes a valid and universally accepted point, which for your benefit is “When In Rome do as the Romans do.”
77 Human – You may, in your Scottish mind, imagine that your mother’s Jersey family dates back to 1066 or even before and well it may, but you do not have, nor will you or anyone else for that matter, ever be able find any recorded documentation going back that far to prove such.
The reason I point this out to you is because just about all of our local Court and Rolle records were destroyed by fire during the early 16th Century. A few of the old Jersey families do have well recorded family trees dating back to the early 1300s, with only scant and unreliable broken lines venturing beyond that date. So you will need to come up with something a little more solid in order to make your boastful 1066 claim.
Nevertheless, in his 1649,”History of Jersey” p.86, Phillip Falle wrote the following: “In this Island are many very ancient families, not only amongst the Seigneurs and Gentlemen of the first rank, but even among those of Inferior Quality, several of whom can reckon a Descent, which in some other Countries, very good Gentleman would be most proud of.” So who knows…?
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Jersey Bull,
I call Leah Holmes a valid name which stems from Roman times -’hypocrit’. She expects foreigners in our lands to follow our culture to the letter, yet when we British / Jerseymen go abroad this is not the case look at the Spanish Costas for one obvious example. How many Scottish bars are there around the world, I went to one in Lima, Peru.
Regarding my family history we have various artefacts which have been dated to before 1066 and have been passed down through the Jersey family which will ultimately be passed to me.
I see you are unable to address the further points I made in my post
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Human, you can’t call ME (personally) a hypocrite because when I go abroad I’m not one of those that sticks to other Scots and only speaks English and looks down their nose at locals. I understand that is the opinion many other nations have of Brits abroad but it’s not the way I behave.
If that is what YOU do then you are speaking for YOURself… you can’t speak for me.
I am a ‘foreigner’ in Jersey, I’m lucky in that English is one of my main languages and I don’t doubt that can make life a little easier but it doesn’t help any with the culture, Jersey culture is very different to Scots.
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It’s a good job that Leah Holmes uses inverted commas while addressing herself as a foreigner. I don’t think that people from the North of Britian should be made to feel foreign in Jersey; likewise, as a Channel Islander living on the Mainland – East Kent, to be precise – I wouldn’t feel comfortable being treated as a foreigner myself.
There is one thing about the debate on the newly named Rue De Funchal that I don’t comrehend : why aren’t members of the local Portuguese community themselves taking part in this debate?! After all it IS something that concerns them, and I’m convinced that it would render this debate with a much-needed raft of opinions from the opposite side of the equation.
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Leah Holmes you are a hypocrit in the truest sense of the word. You acknowledge that our fellow countrymen go abroad and do nothing to intergrate, yet you expect everyone coming to our lands to intergrate. Surely you argument should be agaisnt our countrymen who go abroad and do not try to intergrate as well as those that come to our lands.
To quote you specifically on one of your hypocritical comments, “For some reason it’s only when people are expected to learn English that it seems to become a problem!” How many of our ex-pats have bothered to learn the language of far off lands. Take the Spanish Costas as one obvious example of English speaking people not bothering to learn the language or trying to intergrate.
Your views go agaisnt foreigners and pick on their faults but do not really touch upon our obvious faults, this is hypocritical in every sense of the word.
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I feel like banging some heads together on here. Most of us are British. English, Jersey, Scots, whatever. Not much difference.
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Oh dear Human, maybe a dictionary would help you.
I am only a hypocrite dependent on MY words and actions as YOU are/are not a hypocrite dependent on YOURS!
I behave abroad as I would expect of others when they are abroad. I can “acknowledge” how other Scots may behave abroad doesn’t mean I condone it. My Scottish friends who have moved abroad are all fluent in the official language of wherever they are, to be honest I cannot see how they could possibly work and live there if they weren’t! I have no idea how someone with little English deals with social security, tax returns, employment and health problems etc over here.
Ben, that statement is right to a point but there can be many differences with culture and language/dialect (even within countries), one of David Cameron’s latest ‘errors’ brought that issue to the fore. For my part I leave it up to the individual to call what nationality they are.
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Human, I don’t wish to speak on Leah’s behalf here, but I think you really have got the wrong end of her stick.
I’m sure she’s as equally repulsed as the rest of us by the “Lager Lout Brits Abroad” that give us such a bad name. She’s not defending them. She’s saying that if she was to live abroad she would learn the language and embrace the culture, as I’m sure all respectable Brits would.
I absolutely agree with Paul’s (96) comment about there being little Portuguese input in this debate. The reason I felt compelled to comment in the first place was that it seemed from the article in the JEP that this was only ever initiated by the Roman Catholic Dean who then had the audacity to criticise parishoners for not agreeing wholeheartedly to his “great” idea, saying that “A negative vote would have been very damaging to community relations”. Probably more accurate to say that you would have looked rather silly had there been a negative vote. I’m surprised he didn’t steal the slogan that Father Ted used when he was celebrating Chinese culture on Craggy Island : The Portuguese – a great of bunch of lads.
Funnily enough I met a Portuguese friend of mine at lunchtime and asked him what he thought of the road name change. He couldn’t give two hoots. He said he lives here because he likes it here and doesn’t feel that Jersey owes him anything.
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Funny how every topic ends up being a discussion on racism. Dear Mr Crowsnest I hope my comment does not make you cry, sensitive soul that you are.
Other than that I just posted to see if I could be comment 100!
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Ah one out – story of my life!
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Leah, I understand what positive discrimination is, I just don’t think you do. I just don’t get how naming a street can be seen as positive discrimination, because i don’t see how anybody is gaining any socio-economic advantage. I was just pointing out the fact that you’ve gotten the issue a little confused. I’m glad you’re up for fairness and equality, its just that sometimes, when I read your posts, I don’t think you do. I personally, couldn’t give a monkey’s uncle about a community getting a street named in honour of them. I wonder if it would still be a big deal, if the street was being changed to Edinburgh Road or Dublin Place? Probably not, because certain groups of “others” are more acceptable. I’m not part of the “political correctness gone mad” brigade. I believe in freedom of speech however, uncomfortable it may be to swallow at times. What does get my goat, is when I read comments that are covertly based on xenophobic/stereotypical views that not only are slightly hypocritical but have a slightly resentful tone and are passed on as being the voice of reason. Why can’t we as a community celebrate our culture as well as our diversity?
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Leah you live in a culture which originally took over three quarters of the world and made everyone speak English.
I applaud you for trying to intergrate when you go abroad, this is very noble. Not everyone from our culture does this though, which you acknowledge. Therefore you cannot really comment on other cultures who do not intergrate, because the culture which you belong to does not either.
Because you slag off other cultures i.e. the Portuguese for not intergrating, you are being hypocritical because YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN DO EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Keep at it Human, I only take issue with those Portugese, Polish, Kenyan or whatever that DON’T integrate! And knowing some that do integrate I know that they take issue with it also, mostly cause they think it’s a little idiotic to make your own life more difficult and limit your opportunities, or because they get fed up being asked to translate for those that haven’t made the effort to learn.
Hence the no hypocrisy, as nicely explained by Bob (thanks).
Anyway of the Madeirans I know, they don’t comment on here for two reasons…1) most of them do not buy the JEP 2) of those that do buy it, while speaking and reading English fairly well, their written English is not so good, fair enough.
I love qwert’s comment on celebrating ‘our culture’ and diversity… a great way to do this would be to actively encourage ALL cultures (not just 1 or 2) to get involved in Jersey festivities like Battle of Flowers.
Anyway human I was hoping you might say something that made it clear why learning the language of the land you make your home is such an offensive suggestion, guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. After all, it is something that benefits the incomer probably even more than it benefits those already here, not least in employment opportunities.
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It’s too late to complain now, it has been decided already (even if only by 30 people!).
If anyone was that bothered they’d gang together to call a special meeting to rescind the decision. I think we can assume that’s not going to happen, so why complain?
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It probably all boils down to respect and appreciation rather than racism.
Natives want their local heritage, traditions and way of life respected whereas non-natives want appreciation for their commitment and hard work.
It is easier to welcome new cultures and traditions when they do not adversely affect those of the local in my opinion.
Compromise is the key.
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I cant see any harm in changing a street name if it is in recognition of Maderian work on this island.If you look back in history street names changed when it was under the french or english.
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Changing the name back would seem rather daft. My back was actually got up due to the fact that the public were lied to over the reason for choosing Funchal over other places.
By the first reason given it would have been named after Bad Wurzach, by the second reason given there would be similar tributes made to other nationalities in Jersey. That leaves singling out of the Portugese as the only possible reason, that may not seem wrong to others but it will always seem wrong to me (and not cause it’s Portugese, because of the ‘singling out’ factor).
So Jersey officials should really restore the balance and make it clear that ALL nationalities that have contributed to Jersey are equally appreciated, and that would include Jersey people also.
Roll on the day that Jersey’s own celebrations incorporate aspects of many cultures while including the history of the land itself. It can be done I’m sure.
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Hmmm! Wow! where do you start after that lot!
Well I daresay Constable Crowcroft is reaching for the Whiskey bottle even if he’s a teetotaller!(I know nothing of his drinking habits incidently)
I suppose we should deal with the Nationality thing first!
We are all members of the Human Race.
The fact that at times in our History various Nationalities have banded together in a common cause should be a matter of celebration not controversy!
Now let’s get specific:-
The Portuguese:A fine seafaring race with a well established culture with whom the UK and the Channel Islands have enjoyed a centuries old affinity, and who have been our allies in conflicts going back hundreds of years.
The Polish: Probably the people who have suffered the most on mainland Europe simply because their homeland is geographically located in an area where other cultures and dogmas clash.That they have survived as a nation after the history of their country over the last hundred years is a credit to their resilience, hard work and latent ability.Just in case you think I am going OTT at this point, just look at the list of Battle of Britain pilots (The famous FEW)who are responsible more than any others for the freedoms enjoyed by all Western European Nations today, and count the Polish names!(Just for the record the two top scoring aces were? Polish)
If they had failed I wonder when the Occupation of Jersey would have ended?
As for the various Nationalities that make up the UK and Channel Island population today, “57 Varieties” isn’t the phrase for it!And it is that over the centuries that have made the Western European Island races among the toughest, most resilient and most creative examples of the Human Race to date. These are the features that in animals you see in the mongrel dog as opposed to the pure bred variety!
Strangely this multi ethnic background is one shared with the central Europeans,who also have a history of conquest and liberation going back centuries, and the cause has always been geographic, and motivated by disputes over water sources, mineral and agricultural resources,and climate.
The Human Race is going to need all the positive and some of the negative characteristics of it’s many branches if we are to survive for another Millenium on this planet.
So you see all this clash of culture rubbish is wholly unproductive.The United Kingdom achieved far more together than it will ever do as four separate nations, squabbling over who did what to who and when over the course of history!Be aware of History, learn from the mistakes of the past, but the real challenge is to channel all resources to a constructive future.
Rua Funchal, Victoria Avenue,St James St,—- MINDEN PLACE!? (What Nationality is a MINDEN when it’s at home?)
This was just a friendly gesture towards one element of our community, we have been equally well served over the years by our Italian/Irish (N&S)/Scottish/English/Welsh/Polish/Indian/German/Swiss/French/Kenyan/South African etc.etc.members of our community, those who have concentrated on positive effort.
Oh and there is no such thing as a “Menial” job.All jobs have to be done to the best of a person’s ability otherwise the community at large suffers.Those jobs condescendingly referred to as “Menial” are nearly always those that involve some unpleasant manual activity that is in fact an essential task which if not properly done would have devastating repercussions on the whole community!It is up to us all to make those undertaking those jobs aware how much they are appreciated, and provide them with all the help we can give to make that task easier.
A historical fact: At the end of the carnage that was the Battle of Trafalgar,a massive Hurricane force storm hit both fleets,for three days following the Battle all sides were engaged in a united battle for survival that in terms of human achievement and courage perhaps demonstrates how much more the human race is capable of when we build on our strengths in a united effort.And in 1805 that was quite a lesson for everyone to learn in a period of 24 hours!
If they did it we certainly can.
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There’s certainly plenty of inter-grating taking place on this forum!
Some of the English used by those who have English as their first language grates on me for a start!
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Hey, why do you keep saying that is about what we Madeirians want?
It is as much about what we Madeirians want as its about what you Jersey born want!
Its about what States of Jersey Politicians want.
So stop acusing us and desrespecting us,
we are here quietly working hard mostly doing the jobs you don’t want to do, so we can fund our lives and be left alone.
So leave us alone!
Oh and…
I realy don’t care if there will be a rue du Funchal or Camacha or whatever, it wont make my life any easier or better.
It felt good when i first heard but it only lasted until i started to read your cmts.
Thanks for that and have a nice day!
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I think that whilst they are changing the name of the road, they should change the speed limit along it as well, down to 20mph.
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113 “Mrs Rosemary Bead I think that whilst they are changing the name of the road, they should change the speed limit along it as well, down to 20mph”
Absolutely agree with you Mrs Bead, it’s speed that kills not poor driving, this is proven by the massive reduction in road deaths in the UK achieved by the introduction of speed cameras. They are not cash machines as some cynics have suggested but a crucial tool in preventing deaths on the road.
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After reading all the racist comment here I have to say something. I think it’s time the so called locals got a wake up call, and saw how much immigrants, foreigners and so on… have contributed to the island!
What I say is this. I will arrange a boycott of all local-owned business by immigrants for a week. Maybe this will stop you from being racist!
In silence we can’t stay!
Stand up! Speak up! Racism, no thanks.
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