Parents face fee hike for university
Friday 31st July 2009, 2:59PM BST.
Education Minister James Reed
STATES funding for university students has dropped by almost a third in the last eight years.
Figures released by Education Minister James Reed show that parental contributions almost doubled between 2003 and 2009, while States support dropped by £1.5m.
With the likelihood of a bumper crop of university entrants in September because the recession means fewer job opportunities for school leavers, the figures show that parents will now be paying more than half the cost of university – up from 38% in 2003.
The report states: ‘Since 2001 the value of States financial support to students in higher education has diminished.
‘Recent research suggests that to bring States student support back to 2001 levels would require a 30% increase in expenditure.’
• See Friday’s JEP for full story.
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Parents paying more than half the costs???? It’s amazing what you can do with statistics.
Whilst I’ve had two youngsters there at the same time over the last two years and preceding that another one, I’ve been paying 90% of their fees and 100% their accomodation and living expenses (approx £40,000 per year in total.) What with my 18% income tax I find it hard to make ends meet and I really wonder at times whether I should go to work or just claim parish welfare!
My mate earns far more than me with a private business. His kids live with his ex wife, he puts his day to day living expenses down to his business, gets 100% grants and accomodation for his student children and his only university expense is to give them £100 a month pocket money. Something’s wrong somewhere!!!!
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So they should.
Too many young people are taking the states for a ride: going to university for three years, doing subjects that have no relevance to Jersey industries whatsoever, being given free money for it and then coming back and doing a job in a bank they could have done at the age of 18.
Why is there not a loans system? Surely that would solve a lot of the problems?
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States funding for university students is now constrained by the stark reality of severe economic downturn.In any case funding was limited to those, whose parents were on a very low income thresholds only. Instead we should look at why the UK has denied British citizens, whom have excelled in following the UK educational system, whilst some other countries are afforded full UK fees relief status. Marge(2),some of those kids work really hard. My daughter got a double first in her UK degree two weeks ago.That doesn’t happen without extremely hard work. She didn’t get a penny from the States and we had to pay thousands more than some other non UK foreign students on her degree course.That is wrong and the States should press the UK Brown government to address this unfair system.
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I take it you’re either relatively wealthy or have no children that have recently been to university then Marge? I think that’s a pretty uninformed view.
If there were a loans process Jersey students would be looking at loans of at least £5000 more PER YEAR than their UK counterparts (Jersey students pay around £3000-4000 more a year toward tuition fees alone, excluding travel costs and the need to buy things over there). No-one would go and we’d all be complaining about the amount of unskilled young people unemployed because the ‘banks’ are too full with similar young people.
As to your comment about people doing subjects that have no relevance to Jersey industries – having a highly graded degree I can tell you now that those Jersey industries are filled with older, experienced personnel or people who have no connections with Jersey whatsoever. I also doubt that at the age of 18 when students are considering their options they are wandering how best they can pay Jersey back for their grants.
The states already do provide a form of loan toward topup fees (which over three years adds another £4500 to parents fees) and offer just a year to pay that back.
The amount parents are having to pay is growing because the states don’t appropriately decide who gets what. Like John said, parents who earn far more than those less well off are recieving full grants because of marital seperation, private businesses etc. I’d need several hands to count the amount of Jersey students I knew at university who had full grants per term who then jetted off with mummy and daddy somewhere exotic every single holiday. All while others struggled for food each week and worked every day of their well earnt holidays.
I know some who had £1700 of grant per semester (3 semesters) as only children with both parents working. In comparsion I had £800 per term with an older brother already at university and only one parents wage to pay for it.
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I’d also like to add to my last point…
In comparison to that £800 (or £1700…), most students from the mainland I knew at uni recieved around £1500 a term toward their living costs. Yes that a loan and they have to pay it back eventually but living on £800 (take £150 worth of travel out of that, you’re left with £500-£550) for that amount of time in comparison with others on treble the amount makes it even more stressful than it can already be.
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The system as a whole is wrong. The fees are outrageous and I think that the students should maybe take some of the responsibility for the fees by way of a loan from the states to cover the tuition fees and parents could pay for the accommodation/expenses. I have a 17 year who hoped to go to university next year but with high taxes and no pay increases and the cashflow decreasing over the past few years there is no way we could aford to send her to the UK. The only way we could send her is if we pack up after 30 years of living in Jersey and going back to the UK which we may consider as the island is becoming too expensive anyway and at least my daughter will be able to complete the degree of her choice with cheaper tuition fees. I am sick, tired and fed up with ths island with the politics,the states losing money, expecially the treasury department. We have been paying for everyone kids to go off university in past years and when it comes our turn we get nothing. The problem is the states would rather bring in J cats with degrees in practically anything and pay them a wacking load of money rather than look after their own people. The people who run the island know nothing of struggling and making sacrifices that parents make for the their children and frankly they don’t give a dam.
Miserable!!!!
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If eduucation really want to cut their budget, further education should be paid for by the students themselves through a loan scheme. Maybe if students have to pay for the education themselves, they will not waste their time doing second rate degrees at former polytechnics. There are far too many students who do drama, media studies etc at such ‘universities’ and then find it difficult to find work when they return to Jersey.
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Steve (4) I have actually been to university myself, which my parents had to pay for because they aren’t as aware as some as to how to play the system. I think it is wrong for young people to expect their university fees to be paid for by the government. as Dave (7) says – it would reduce the ‘wastage’ if these people had to consider where the money is actually coming from. I had friends at school who barely scraped through thier A-levels, yet still went through clearing and got themselves a place in a nice poly to do a BA in Media Studies. History repeats itself and they barely pass the degree. Where are they living now? The UK.
On my course I met people from all over the world who could not believe how generous the States of Jersey are. Even Norway (which has a ‘rainy day fund’ eclipsing the Jersey one more times over than I would like to imagine) has a loans system for students.
Why one earth can Jersey not do the same? It should not be the governments responsibility to pay for your child’s education.
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Marge (2) and Dave (7) I’ve been to university and couldn’t have put your description better myself. However you missed out one point.
From what I saw a considerable sum of states money actually ended up in the hands of the UK taxman from duty on alcohol. At a guess id say an average 1st year student spends 80 pounds per week in pubs clubs and off licences.
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Without doubt the island does need to support students who go to university, which in return will be of benefit to the island when they have completed their studies, i.e teachers, nurses,and the core of what supports the island without “bringing in” outsiders which the island does not need in the long term. I do agree that certain subjects should not receive a full grant, media, drama, should be funded out of the students pocket as these subjects have no beneficial return to the island. Also people who use loopholes to gain maximum benefit and pay no fees should be stopped. Some divorced parents who are well off often scam the system by claiming relief whilst 1 parent may be earning £100,000 they often use the salary of the lower paid person and also make false statements saying the child lives with the less well off person when if fact they live with the person on large salaries.
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A properly structured loan scheme is the answer here.
The UK loan scheme puts repayment responsibility with the student when their salary on graduating exceeds a certain figure per annum.They do not repay if they are out of work or do not earn enough on graduating.They also I believe can negotiate how much they repay and over what period.This may seem harsh to people who do not believe in borrowing money, but I put it to you that it does introduce a certain focusing of the mind with regard to performance when the responsibility to repay is with the person benefiting from the education.
What such a scheme does offer is time to plan the appropriate repayment from whatever source.It is therefore an educational mortgage.
There is not then such a pressure on parents or the student to pay either from stretched resources or by private short-term borrowing.
It is also possible that later in life the student individual concerned may by way of inheritance or ability find repayment easier than trying to earn while studying as a lot of students currently have to do (And which is becoming increasingly difficult).
Obviously such loans need to be controlled as to interest charged and when. As I understand it interest is only charged once repayment commences, but investigation of the detail of the UK scheme would clarify this.It seems far better than the States scheme mentioned above which seems to require repayment almost as soon as the money is lent and whilst the person is still studying!What help is that?
I also believe that we as an Island have allowed ourselves to be lumped in with the rest of the World far too easily when it comes to our students being classified as to what level of tuition fees they pay.I believe that the Crown Dependencies (As the UK Government are so fond of calling us) should at least qualify for some kind of discount on the annual tuition fee paid by Nationals of other countries, and pressure should be brought to bear on the UK authorities by our politicians to secure this, after all we are not regarded by the UK Government as separate countries in our own right so why are we being labelled as such in this instance?
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Although it would be nice if the UK charged us reduced rates, I don’t think we have much of a case to argue.
Jersey is charged ‘cost’. Other countries, mainly developing countries, are charged a reduced rate for various reasons, which means that the UK taxpayer pays the balance of that fee.
The average UK taxpayer is poorer and more heavily taxed than his Jersey counterpart, so it is difficult to argue why they should contribute part of the cost of a Jersey students’ education, especially as many UK students have to run up large loans to go through uni.
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Dave I believe you are making the usual generalisations concerning Jersey taxpayers that are always made by UK residents who do not understand the history of the relationship this Island has with the UK. We are a Crown Possession not a Nation State, yet in this matter we are being treated like a wealthy Nation State in our own right by the UK Government.
I am also uncertain as to what you mean by being charged at “Cost”? as far as I understand the situation Jersey students are being treated the same as students from wealthy overseas countries outside the EU and are being charged far more in annual tuition fees than their UK counterparts.It is well known that the UK Universities look to tuition fees from these students they class as “Overseas Students” to underwrite their other fee shortfalls.
As far as I am aware UK students (Excluding Scottish students who are fully subsidised by the UK taxpayer)pay tuition fees at “Cost”.
The argument I believe our politicians should be making is that Jersey students should pay the same as their English counterparts.If I am wrong on my facts here then I would welcome correction. I am interested to read your point concerning the subsidising of students from developing nations, and would stress I am not advocating that the UK taxpayer subsidise Jersey students, merely that our students pay the same annual tuition fees as their English counterparts.
Not all Jersey parents are multi millionaires, and the Jersey student faces additional and constantly varying travel costs, and does not have the option of parental accommodation in the vicinity of the University as a great many UK based students do(Even if they choose not to take advantage of it).
There are also student overdraft schemes arranged with the Banks that contribute to living expenses, which are on advantageous terms. I am not sure that the local equivalent schemes are as generous, but again I am open to correction here?
As there are no local “Universities” on the Island, the only other option is for the States to create some, which is no short-term project as financial viability would be dependent on performance.
I understand some of the attitudes being reflected as to the types of degree being taken, although with salaries in the media being as they are reported I don’t understand why such degrees are held in such contempt by some.I can only assume it is the over supply of candidates for so few jobs that is the problem. A University education is as much about the experience and the opportunity of networking with other similarly interested people from all cultures and backgrounds as it is about training a person for a specific job or profession.It is about building personal ability, and most of all confidence, and about getting access to the best brains in whatever subject the student has chosen where possible, or at least acquiring the ability to be able to determine who those tutors are with those brains!
As for the future it is just possible that the Open University idea might be the way forward as technology develops, although that can eliminate the personal contact and social aspect that is also important.
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having a daughter who has just completed an excellent three year course at highlands we waited with bated breath to see if she wanted to move on to university. she then decided university wasn’t for her and has obtained an brilliant job which she went out and got for herself. i must admit the thought of paying university fees had depressed us immensely and we felt as if a great burden had been lifted from our shoulders. i really don’t think parents should be forced to pay for their children at university and that a loan scheme should be brought in. i know that we would have found it extremely difficult to put our daughter through university although we would have if she had wanted to go. what does annoy me are students who do go cost their parents a fortune and either give up or don’t do anything with their degree when they finish. i also think courses could be far shorter and that the idea of a jersey university should be encouraged so that our students didn’t have to go away and be ripped off in england. i note that far more students in britain choose universities closer to their homes and often live at home to save money.
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Nick, have to correct you there, Scottish students are fully subsidised by the SCOTTISH taxpayer. Scotland has always valued education greatly and has always been considered to have a better education system than England. I, for one, would hate to see this change.
As for the typical blame on the UK. It doesn’t matter what Jersey’s history with the UK is. Taxes pay for education, Jersey people do not contribute to UK taxes. English students are still partially subsidised even though it is said that they pay ‘fees’.
Open University is the only way to go on an island this size. Your kids can work and study at the same time (making them even more employable when they graduate) and it has the highest rate of students being employed in their chosen field within one year of graduation. The nature of it means that ‘useless’ degrees are discouraged, in fact I can’t think of any useless degrees that are even offered. And you don’t have to leave Jersey to study.
Naturally most will study subjects that eventually take them outwith the island, that’s just life, why limit them to the jobs that are available here.
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Terry, I don’t see how a ‘shorter’ course will do anything but lessen the quality of the education. The education systems in the UK are getting worse and worse as it is. A standard needs to be maintained otherwise UK degrees will eventually be considered worthless.
I can not see how a Jersey university could ever be viable, much as it would be nice. Maybe what the island could consider is some sort of organisation giving tutor support to those on ‘correspondence courses’ (be it OU or professional qualifications) and form strong links with the bodies providing these courses. Most correspondence courses are currently unable to offer tutors in Jersey and that makes it harder for students here.
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All this whinging about the high fees that the Jersey kids (or parents) are having to pay is hilarious. What about the tried and true argument that you all use to defend your island’s housing policies, ie you chose to come here, you deal with the consequences of having to pay more…
On a second note, why are so many parents complaining about having to put their kids through university? Are the children immune from working part time during the term and full time during the holidays. That’s what I had to do, and it did one thing, it taught me the value of an honest pound.
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Nick,
I am aware of our constitutional, political and fiscal relationship with the UK and the Crown. We are not part the UK and we both have completely separate education budgets raise by seperate taxation regimes. If the UK government asked universities to charge Jersey students less someone would have to make up the shortfall, probably the UK revenue, and I do not see the current UK government agreeing to that.
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Non Qual, I don’t know where you’re from, if, like me, it is the UK, then you may be aware of just how much of this pressure for kids to go to university has come from the governments. It is totally unrelated to the housing situation.
Since it is Governments that are putting kids through school stressing university to them at every stage, and it is governments encouraging businesses to favour graduates (even if the degree is irrelevant to the job) then frankly the governments should pay more. Many vocations now have degrees, vocations that were served better back when they were learned on the job coupled with professional training. I’m sure there are many Jersey kids who would happily undertake these vocations but are now forced to do so through university rather than paying their way as they go. Is that their fault? It is governments that are making it ever harder for people without a university education to get gainful employment!
I do believe that students should pay retrospectively for any further education they undertake (using a fairer system than the current loans one in England) but also that the Government assist on a basic level. I would, however, couple this with returning some degrees to training on the job, and a scrapping of the many useless degrees that now exist.
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Yes! but lets remember the States gets it all back by prolonging the two tier residential housing system. If our youngsters do pay extra to go to university its probably only fair because those who come to Jersey end up paying it all back into the coffers as part of the grotesque housing apartheid system. What goes around comes around!!!
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One other point Nick, the fees paid by UK students are capped and the difference is met by the UK taxpayer, so a comparison between what UK students pay and what Jersey students are charged is not valid.
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Absolutely amazing. Talking to someone the other day who has just been refused a grant. He was fuming as financially he is struggling yet his daughters mate who’s parents are minted and own several properties and yet on paper have a low income are given the full grant!
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I’m still not seeing what the supposed two-tier housing system has to do with further education!
The drive to virtually badger kids into going to university is a PR exercise on behalf of governments. No government actually cares whether your particular child has a degree or not, just what numbers they can give to look good on the world stage.
Should they not contribute towards this PR exercise?
Some kids are being badgered, by this new culture surrounding them, to feel that they must go to uni even if it is not what they really want to do. Then they get moaned at for ‘wasting’ someone’s money!
The fact that people are walking about lauding their ‘degree’ to colleagues that don’t have degrees (but have experience) shows just how ridiculous a situation governments have created. They’ll divide and conquer by any method possible. There’s nothing to laud about a degree… it should be a simple case of doing what you need to do to get the job you want!
Maybe the way to deal with this is to revamp the system so degrees are only offered in more sensible subjects with a move back to learning on the job in other areas, the first matter is out of the States’ hands, but the second isn’t!
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The cut off point for a grant is £50K – combined income or around £25K each which is less than the average salary (so we are informed). Given how much we pay for rent or mortgages, is this a realistic figure? In practice, the children of middle Jersey parents are being denied a university education because their parents cannot afford it. Even a uni course through Highlands costs the parents £8K annually – how is this supposed to be affordable? Heaven forbid that you have 2 at uni at the same time…..
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Non Qual… you don’t know that all these parents CHOSE to come here! Many will have been born here, and should not be forced to leave their home simply to provide a decent education for their children.
It might seem unfair that the States have a certain duty to those that were born here (health, education etc) that they don’t automatically have for incomers, but that’s the same in every country. I don’t expect Jersey to have any obligation to my education cause I’m an incomer, I only argue on the health matter because my (UK) taxes were some of those that they ‘stole’!
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Leah Holmes – three responses from you in response to a few lines written by me, I must have got your back up.
I perfectly understand that the issue of university fees and housing is unrelated, I just used it as an example to show how Jersey locals are slightly hypocritical. Is it ok to say that those from the UK who chose to live in Jersey for varying reasons should pay more to live in Jersey, and then expect Jersey children to be treated in the same way as somebody from the UK when it comes to tuition when they seek to attend a UK institution? Talk about having your cake and eating it too.
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Refernece to #23, I am of the opinion that University Education has become big business for some cities in the UK, with a whole support infrastucture growing up such as buy to let properties for students to rent, university fees, etc etc. This ‘industry’ has expanded rapidly by the government brain washing students, that without a degree, they stand no chance in the work place.
While many students do well at University, attain a decent degree which enables them to obtain a ‘fast track’ graduate position with an organisation, there are many who drop out, with debts and end up working in Mc Donnalds while trying to payoff their loans.
As regards the local grant scheme, there seems litle logic in how benefit is paid out. Some students who’s family have wealth in some form or other, or perhaps will benefit from a family trust at age 25 seem to do OK, whilst other students, who’s parents have their own business seem to lose out.
At the end of the day, students who go off to University should have longer term plan than the course its self, and also work out how their further education is to be funded.
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The taxpayer should not pay for most university courses. One look at the graduations reported in the JEP is enough to make one weep.
We should fund people who get into Oxford and Cambridge: the sort of vanity degrees offered by other establishments should be paid for by the people who will “benefit” from the experience.
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Not you Non-Qual, it’s the States that have got my back up! Why have an education system that pushes degrees at kids that really have no need or desire for them, make them feel they need a degree but then refuse to help out?
After all, they could put equal effort into encouraging kids to simply follow their desires and/or their strengths even if that means the preferred method of training is on the job or an apprenticeship.
Mad Foetus, it can’t really be down to University (after all you’re more likely to get into certain universities dependent on who you know rather than just ability), choice of course would suffice surely.
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Many of our immigrants have government funded university educations, which means that local school leavers are competing for jobs on an uneven playing field. Since employers can employ someone with a degree straight off the boat (as the Regulations and Undertakings Law is not enforced) for less than a local person, very often our school leavers don’t even rate an interview.
Even with a degree, local students are struggling to get work and many of them give up after 6 -12 months or so and leave the Island. They aren’t looking for jobs that pay a fortune, they just want the chance to get their first real job as another excuse from the employers is lack of experience … how are you supposed to get this if no-one gives you your first job?
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The fact is, is that the whole grant system is flawed. It is based almost entirely on income, and assumes that anything over the absurdly low threshold rate is “disposable” and therefore the parents can afford to put their kids through university.
As a student at university myself, I am completely reliant on my parents allowance (including them paying for my fees, accommodation, bills) and I also supplement this with summer work, a part-time job during term-time and my overdraft. I am extremely fortunate that my parents are in the position that they can support me but it is not an ideal situation when you look at the various situations of students and their families and the grant awarded to each.
For those that wish to suggest that a degree is just a dos and that we are ‘milking’ the states system (those of us that get a grant!), you need to be educated yourself. I guarantee that if we all got a job at 18 (NOT the same job as those we are likely to get when we graduate) then the state of the economy would be even worse than it is now – with an influx of undertrained, inexperience staff who in ten years time will be in charge of companies!
The whole system needs an overhaul and a student loan system would be welcomed by many! The repayments in the UK system are minimal and only when you are earning over 15,000 a year – so much so, many dont even notice they are repaying their debt.
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