Treasurer keeps job as incinerator hearing concludes
Thursday 6th August 2009, 2:58PM BST.
States Treasurer Ian Black.
STATES Treasurer Ian Black has kept his job at the end of a secret disciplinary hearing over the incinerator contract mistakes.
Although the States have refused to comment on what, if any, disciplinary sanctions the Treasury department chief officer has been given, it is fairly clear that he has not been sacked or suspended because he is still at work.
Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf began the disciplinary process after a report by the States independent spending watchdog found that by failing to fix the exchange rates for the new incinerator contract, the Treasury department could have lost millions of pounds.
Mr Black has been unavailable to comment on the disciplinary hearing. A spokesman for the Chief Minister’s department said that the issue was closed.
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Someone has stolen a lot of money from us the taxpayer. All we want to know is who is to blame, when they are getting the sack so they can’t mess up again and how they plan to pay us back our money?
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What a disgrace! Why was this hearing behind closed doors? It is our Taxpayers money that has been lost due to a very basic ‘schoolboy’ accounting error. If this had happened in any Financial Institution, there would have an immediate dismissal. How can our joke of a States Assembly look the public in the eye after this sham ‘hearing’?
The matter is now closed so say the Chief Ministers Dept. Disgusting. This whole matter should be investigated in the public arena and those responsible should be named, shamed and action taken. How can we trust these numpties when they behave like Ostriches, sticking their heads in the sand hoping the problem will go away?
Pathetic behaviour from a Government unable to Govern.
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“Could have lost millions”
No one has said that it did cost millions, but this is not the point. If an error of this magnitude was taken why is he still being employed?
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Are we surprised at the outcome – No!!!
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Now will people start to wake up, this government is out of control..
no one is never accountable oh hang on unless your lenny harper or G.power a complete and utter joke.. Taxpayers money down the drain
Sid James for next chief minister
rs
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Quelle surprise
Unfortunatley we cannot vote on the Treasury Ministers support of “open government” @ the next election or for his stride toward being the next Chief Minister as he is not up for re election is he!!
Come on Ben Shenton show us your mettle.
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Whomsoever at the Chief Minister’s department has arrogantly decreed that the matter is closed should be reminded that it is fact over when the taxpayer says it is ! Given the gravity of the mistake neither the government nor the civil service has the right to sweep this affair under the carpet. How heinous does the negligence have to be before the disciplinary action adopted is judged to be suitable for the public domain ? Clearly an unnecessary loss of £3 million means nothing to our public sector.
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Surley the States must have learned by now that in matters where public money is being wasted to hold a hearing behind closed doors is only going to anger the tax payer.
I say that Mr Black should resign and should have been sacked over this issue. He is in charge and this is a massive loss of public funds at a time where the states are having to make staff redundant in other areas. I would much rather have 3 nurses working in the hospital then Mr Black in charge of the Treasury department any day….
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Oh that’s fine!!!! He just made a mistake, we’ll forgive him for that, just make sure that the state workers don’t get their well deserved pay raise to cover for his losses.
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Just an observation, if the rate HAD been fixed and found to go the other way which can often happen, Mr Black would still be the scapegoat.
It is interesting to note the quite obvious lack of education and understanding by a large proportion of people who make these comments.!
By the way I am a tax payer!
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If he is a member of the Association of Corporate Treasurers, then I hope that body will be looking at taking a disciplinary case against him for alleged incompetence.
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I cant believe it really…wel actually i can! this is typical behaviour from our states! They all have each others backs so its not surprise he still has a very well paid Job!!
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I wonder if Mr Black has been adequately rewarded for the job he has been doing?
Let make sure he gets a nice bonus?
How about a nice big guaranteed Pension also?
Free Parking Space?
Company Car?
Private Health Care?
Six Figure Salary?
How many other ways can we reward the most excellent job he has obviously been doing?
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I love it, on the day i find out my Itis is to be doubled because the income tax dept has taken 4 months to calculate my new rate I also find out that the above matter is now closed. The whole lot of them get away with treating the public however they like and constantly get away with it. I am disgusted by this outcome and especially the comment that the subject is now closed without letting us now why or how.
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Why should Mr Black resign? The buck stops with the then minister, who was, as we know, Senator Terry Le Sueur. Mr Le Sueur is, of course, still in office and could therefore be held to account even at this late stage.
If Senator le Sueur is not going to resign, then why should a civil servant act as a sacrificial scapegoat?
Senator Le Sueur might well wish that this is now the end of the matter. One might hope that the States might think otherwise and conduct an enquiry into what was happened during the years that Le sueur was in charge of the public purse.
Rico at number 5 suggested that Sid James might make a good Chief Minister. Unfortunately, Mr James passed away in 1976. Nice idea though, although I think that Kenneth Williams or Charles Hawtry [both also deceased] might better fit the current image which is projected by the States of Jersey!
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Agre danny.
the isle of man did the same thing and the culprit held his hands up and resigned
Our lot in the states think they are untouchable
makes me very angry.
And done in secret what are they trying to hide?those in cahots should also be questioned,no wonder we have no faith in them.
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As this was held in private we can only speculate, but if it was Black’s fault he would have been presumable have been sacked. As he has not been sacked, I suspect the responsibility for this lies further up.
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Annie du Feu, what do you expect. We are run by an island of self serving individuals who are all part of “The Club” and they are going to ensure “jobs for the boys” whatever the cost.
Call me synical but where else but in Jersey would you get such a miscarriage in realtion to public funds where the taxpayer has no voice????
Please only use examples from the developed world and not the likes of Zimbabwe.
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When the incinerator contract was agreed the States were given a guarantee by the then Treasury Minister, Terry le Sueur, that the contract would be hedged against currency fluctuations.
This was not done and as a result the island is several million poorer.
After a secret enquiry the Chief Minister’s Office now informs us that the matter is closed.
Why is anyone in Jersey surprised?
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Extraordinary, truly incredible!
Now then, can the States please settle the cases of all the other high-earning civil servants who are suspended from their duties without any further delay?
Doctors, nurses, police officers, fire fighters – they do not know when they will have their cases settled, and taxpayer do not know how long they will have to pay for good men and women to remain on “gardening leave”.
Only in Jersey!
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Perhaps all of us taxpayers should cease paying our taxes until we are satisfied with the outcome and re-assured our hard earned cash isn’t being pocketed by the fat cats or wasted by incompetence.
They can’t arrest all of us. Besides if it costs £51k per prisoner in Hotel La Moye then we may enjoy the stay
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If’s and but’s are irrelevant in this thread. Fact is he DIDN’T fix the fx rate and he LOST several million pounds of taxpayers money.
This money could have been used to improve a lot of our failing services and crumbling infrastructure!
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….and in my experience FX rate errors nearly always COST money and rarely a profit is made.
Besides, even if the rate had gone the other way do you think the taxpayer would have benefitted from the windfall?
I highly doubt it!
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Civil service tries the civil service. there’s nothing civil and do they provide a service?
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So whether the treasurer is solely responsible or has been set as the fall guy by Ogley and his pals remains an unknown to us,Point is it is NOT good enough, there can be no valid excuse for this SECRECY… and we the public should in no way tolerate it,a scandal,if everyone asked their representative directly for an answer it would have to come out ,or will we meekly tug the forelock and accept the unacceptable…? come on guys they owe us..big time,as J.F.K said “The very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and open society” so Jersey folks if we put up with this there is almost nothing they can’t get away with thereafter,,,you can kiss goodbye to the illusion of democracy and have to accept you have by your passive silence voted to live under the white collar jackboot.
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Mr Black,you should resign,you get paid a vast amount of money,for a job that you cannot do.we also have states members,that are not qualified for the positions,that they hold.a lot of these positions require someone who has the qualifications.can you imagine,applying for a blue chip job at shell,and on your cv,it states.that i sell cars,hire bikes,and really expect a top job,earning £50,000 a year.the states do not have the very high calibre,that is needed/or the qualifications.that is a must to run this island.the system is a joke.
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Fortunately the last time TLS said the case was closed the end result was Sen Perchard stood down as Health Minister after the public outcry.
Lets hope this public outcry is also listened to and the Minister responsible (TLS) also steps down.
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It does make you wonder about what sort of Government we have when we , the public, are left in the dark about issues that really matter. The public, are paying these people their wages. We deserve a whole lot better, not a statement which says the ” Issue is now closed “.
Anyone in a similar position in private employment would have been fired. WHAT IS GOING ON ?
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Whatever happened to accountability and transparency in democratic government.
The Jersey taxpayer has a right to know the full history of the mistakes made in negotiating the Incinerator contract, and both the treasurer as well as the politicians held responsible.
Having myself got caught out some twenty years ago on an engineering contract cost overrun due to a and exchange rate change, I would have though one of the first priorities was establishing a fixed rate when placing the order. But I am a “not-so-humble” mechanical engineer, not an accountant.
We have had enough government obfuscation, here in the UK, over the wasting of the taxpaying piblic’s money, on mismanaged contracts, subsidising failed bankers, or payments to phoney claimants.
It is high time that more of these people holding high positions if they have proved themselves “not fit for purpose”.
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This blatant disregard for standards and accountability has reached a peak, remember this happened on the chief ministers watch,he already has lost us loads of money on the social security fund, I won’t bandy the details here for the backside covering excercise needs blasting out of countenance,If Black had to go then they both had to go…but what has bow eclipsed the whole sorry euro debacle and is far more serious on all levels is this brazen yet weak attempt at cover up, if The President of the United States can be impeached, we must have the same sanction here and this guy has to go…who want’s to live in a secret state,which I might add leads to a totalitarian state in no time.this is very dangerous..let us shine light in all the dark corners for all our futures depend on it.
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Whilst I am not a supporter of our unaccountable civil service I should like to point out that the Euro/GBP rate is now what it was when we signed the contract and on the basis that we have not fixed the rate when the pound had fallen to its lowest level we will not have lost anything if we fix the rate now. Of course if we have fixed the rate in early January everyone will be complaining that we should have waited until the rate had recovered. I think in this case the Treasurer cannot win either way. If we leave the contract unhedged we will only know if any money has been lost or gained at the completion of the work and the bills have been paid.
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I really dont know why any of you comment or place your posts moaning about this and that. This fiasco, like hundreds of others will blow over and nothing will be done about it now, or when something similar happens again.
Look on the bright side you have “Quality of Life” on this, “Your honoured to be here Island”. There’s no violence on the streets, no drugs, no burglaries, no greed, no dictatorship, reasonable speed limits, competitive prices with plenty of competition for business, no expensive air fares if you want to fly to the UK quickly in an emergency, cheap ferry fares even when you can take your car, no traffic jams, and you have cheap housing!!!
This is what our Government believes, not me!
You could get 1000′s of people on the streets protesting about something like this and the States would still get away with it. The public have voted in the JEP and Local Radio Stations in the past and even demonstrated in the Royal Square many times and nothing changes the minds of the “Boys Club”.
Too many people over here are too comfortable financially to ever want to seriously rock this boat!
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Well Evan, let’s all hit them where it hurts most…..in the pocket!
They can’t jail us all if we refuse to pay anymore taxes until we are satisfied with the running of this island.
At £51k per head it might even be a nice stay in Hotel La Moye.
Failing that perhaps we can sue the government for “breach of contract”. How many of those elected on their promises have fulfilled them?
The people should have the power not the incompetent few otherwise this is nothing short of a dictatorship!
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Evan, This government needs to fall and be totally reformed fairly..it is a hopelessly failed experiment.the old system was far from perfect and too slow but had prudence and input that was representative, it really is over there can be no more pretence that things are o.k. they are far from it.come on people let’s have the change the island deserves,not apathy,e mail your deputies/senators all in the front of the phone book,some of us live close by,what about those who knocked on your door schmoozing for votes,it is totally o.k. to knock on theirs Sunday morning and ask what they are doing about your concerns,you’d be amazed how quick things would change,it’s called using democracy…not a one way thing.and they are obliged to answer you,in case we have forgotten it’s about US…NOT them.
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“Too many people over here are too comfortable financially to ever want to seriously rock this boat!”
Evan you have summed up Jersey in one sentence.
What you have said should be printed every day at the top and bottom of every page in the JEP and on every thread on this forum.
This is Jersey, and that’s just how they like it – even if we don’t.
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You are right B.S.Deluxe if everyone with held their taxes the government would be brought to heel, unfortunately most are too easily bamboozled and the government know this and so can get away with it.
GST was a prime example where people should have stood up and demanded its recindment.
In my honest opinion it will only get worse once the spin master Ozouf gets the top job. How anyone can rate this person is beyond me.
So much for transparency and everything in plain sight then. Bannana republic comes to mind.
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I think that everyone has missed the point or has simply been misled to blame a scapegoat.
Okay so the currency rate was not fixed,but to do so would have cost more in hedging.
It is a minor part of the cost however. The solution chosen by the States cost more than other alternatives and is less cost effective and less environmentally friendly in the short and long term.
However the greatest problem is that the States had and always have had a complete lack of understanding on major project management. If anyone disagrees then look at all of the huge overruns on previous States projects.
The simple truth is that since they signed the badly written contract the global market for EPC projects (large engineering, procurement & constuction) has like the rest of the economy has taken a major hit.
Engineering, materials, fabrication and construction costs have dropped by 15-25%, instead of crucifying a civil servant for a 2-3% predicted loaa, you need to be renegotiating the contract for a much bigger reduction.
Maybe there is someone in the States that could understand this. If they want to know how to save money then I give permission for the JEP to forward my email to them so that I can help the peopleof Jersey from spending way over the odds for a white elephant.
Darren
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Amazing & this is now going to be the “supremo” to oversee ALL departments spending!!
Welcome to the Tea Party my friends
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Darren…..that’s a novel way to apply for a lucrative “consultancy” job
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#35 I would second that motion! Darren, just go ahead and send them your idea, you never know, it may actually get read.
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The buffoonery in the States goes back many years. Who can forget (or who can remember) when a fishmonger was in charge of the tourism industry.
To those that are moved to complain, how many have heard the immortal phrase “the mailboat leaves in the morning, if you don’t like it here”. Those words should be inscribed on a plaque by the harbour. Perhaps with the following footnote:
“Adapt or leave, nothing is changing”.
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Thanks BS,
I actually am a consultant and would love to come back to Jersey all expenses paid.
Leah, you know that they would not recognise a good idea if it smacked them between the eyes.
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what does it take before either a Chief Officer or Minster is sacked from the job….this is taking the Biscuit
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It appears that the word “accountability” should be used here.
Is there a way that the COM can be held accountable? Is there a way that members of the public can actually talk to the COM or at least get an articulate, relevant reply to a question?
This leads me on to imagining a version of the BBC’s Question Time with the panel being made up of senior States members and being questioned by the audience? I can imagine it, but feel it will remain purely hypothetical as I cannot think for one moment that the members would wish to poke their heads above the parapet. Not the “Jersey Way” you see…
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44. Go round to their house and ask them. I do.annoys the hell out of them,but you get answers then returned calls and e mails ‘cos they don’t want you there all the while,Sunday morning is favoured for persistent ignorers.
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I’m lead to believe the regional TV channels might be given some extra time on a Saturday night to fill with their own ideas.
A version of Question Time for the Channel Islands couldn’t be the worst idea could it?
The States seem to need to be forced to listen to the people instead of just cherrypicking the ones they listen to. They need a reminder that they are here to serve Jersey and its residents and that even if they strongly disagree with a view, if it’s a majority view then they should act on it!
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The Council of Ministers need to start showing some respect toward the public.
To hold a secret enquiry over a loss of millions in public cash and then announce “the matter is closed” is COMPLETELY unacceptable.
Terry Le Sueur headed the Treasury during this foul up. He needs to be called to account, publically.
Earlier this week the JEP reported Lord William Wallace’s view that Jersey is not politically mature enough to be trusted with complete self-governance. The behaviour we’ve seen from Terry Le Seuer and his Council of Ministers with the incinerator issue would certainly seem to prove Lord Wallace correct.
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Good idea Leah (46)
Even if they can’t change their ITV output schedule, maybe they could do the show anyway and put it online – or use the Press Red facility for the extra programme somehow.
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Leah Holmes Posted August 11, 2009 at 3:26 pm
“I’m lead to believe the regional TV channels might be given some extra time on a Saturday night to fill with their own ideas.
A version of Question Time for the Channel Islands couldn’t be the worst idea could it?”
That will never happen. CTV already have a prime airtime slot they could use for a regular political Q&A or debate.
And what is that slot used for? Report Sport, CTV’s most heavily and regularly promoted sideshow, of interest to only a few hundred islanders, and having direct impact upon the lives of almost none.
Look around the local blogs, websites and even this website. Is all the public discussion you see about local sport, local sport, local sport and more local sport? No. There’s virtually no discussion about sport. It’s overwhelmingly political. So it would be interesting to ask why CTV aren’t willing to reflect that with their homegrown output.
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46 Leah & 48 Carl
we could even have a fly on the wall documentary team follow some of the more prominent ministers around to see what they actually do for us.
On second thoughts this may destroy any of the miniscule credibility or confidence we may have left in them ….. sometimes “what you don’t know can’t hurt you”
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Very interesting…..but you just dont get it do you?
While there is corruption and cover ups galore in the UK I really dont think its as covered up and seemingly one sided as it is in Jersey.
They (the majority sitting in the states chamber) dont care, dont understand and will continue in their current direction until challenged either at the ballot box (some of you should put your names down or maybe just vote), via civil unrest/protest or the with holding of taxes (more difficult with ITIS). The only people that Ive seen trying to challenge the “boys club” are two UK Police Officers (one suspended I believe and the other forced from his position) and Stuart Syvret. Whilst Im not a fan of SS at least he shakes things up a bit.
Stop writing and take some direct action if your democratic rights are not being addressed and your tin-pot COM are not listening. Protest peacefully and take it from there otherwise nothing changes does it? I took the later option and jumped on the boat!!
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fern, love your comments,deeply sad that the media here are in the pocket of the establishment, just listen to the Sunday radio show,and that Roger Barra,hardly the Cooke report is it,people media is growing and will out,keep supporting blogs and getting truth out there,open honesty kills secrecy, for those of us who love the island must strive for freedom of speech and thought.
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truthseeker 52
I think your call for action is falling on deaf ears…but don’t give up!
I admire you (even though I don’t always agree with you), you are no “Don Quixote” and you are not “tilting at windmills”…the “Giant” is very real! So before you do a “Light Brigade” charge make sure you’re not fighting out there alone.
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I don’t know why people are kicking up such a fuss about a few million adjustment. By all means crucify the perpetrators. However, there is a much bigger scandal. By accepting all starry-eyed the anti-Green spiel of spin meisters De Faye and Richardson and their “consultants” the majority of States Members cost us all approximately £50-55 million by agreeing to the wrong waste technology that will probably be redundant within ten years, at which point the taxpayer will have to fork out yet again for some decent technology instead – if the electorate haven’t stopped their profligate waste generating habits by then and started to live sustainably!
Technically, TTS shouldn’t even be calling the incinerator an Energy from Waste plant – because it’s simply not efficient enough to be called that under EU rules – it should correctly be called a disposal plant instead. Perhaps the bamboozled States would not have voted for one of those…
I have tried to correct one of the JEP’s reporters who regularly describes the plant as an “Energy from Waste plant” but he had the nerve to suggest I was “obsessed” – this for merely trying to correct some of the profoundly misleading spin that the Department used to fool the majority of the States!
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