Want a job? ‘Wait on tables’
Saturday 8th August 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Waiting on tables and working in hotels and shops and on building sites will have to be considered by Jersey residents, says Deputy Gorst
ISLANDERS will have to lower their expectations and accept jobs historically done by immigrants to weather the economic downturn, the Social Security Minister has warned.
That could be waiting on tables and working in shops, hotels and on building sites.
Deputy Ian Gorst said many people were already ‘having to try anything to get work’.
He made his comments as it was revealed that businesses are being refused licences to take on non-locally qualified staff – forcing them to employ people that have lived in the Island for at least five years.
As a result of the new restrictions, it is likely that immigrants might find themselves squeezed out of the job market.
Deputy Gorst said that staff in his department had noticed a shift in the way that people were looking for work.
Read the full story in the Jersey Evening Post. Click here for subscription details. Individual editions are also available online.
‘lower their expectations’?
Obviously people are going to be out of work and it is annoying when you have to take a job that is not in the area you trained for years to do, and I fully understand the financial implications of it, but even the article itself has a bit of a tone of looking down on certain jobs. Surely that is the problem in the first place?
Why do people attach so much ‘prestige’ (or lack of it) to a person simply based on their job title? There can be any number of reasons why someone does a specific job and you cannot infer from it their intelligence, morality, worth… what is known is that being unemployed negatively affects people’s self-confidence.
I will admit I find the attitude of ‘human worth based on your job title’ far more pronounced in Jersey than I ever did in the UK.
If working in catering is so easy and intellectualy beneath so many people then how come so many people can’t even last a week in the industry? I imagine the same can be said of building sites, shop work etc. And I’m not meaning people who choose to leave, I’m meaning those who come in with an attitude of ‘this is beneath me’ but then can’t even actually do the job.
These jobs involve skills. Often these skills are based on human interaction, organisation, juggling many balls at the one time. So they’re not based on a degree or a professional qualification, so what?
Any society that promotes such superiority based on employment becomes a victim of its own attitude when an economic downturn comes around.
Report abuse
Great, but when will the message get through to the States of Jersey?
Report abuse
Stop letting in immergrants then or you,ll be unemployed at the next election
Report abuse
Good call, agree with Leah (1) saying people think so much of job titles and want to sound important, but maybe jobs such as potato picker, could become pomme de terre extraction officer.
Many people take advantage of benifits but it looks like Deputy Gorst is trying to do something about it.
If we stop letting in immigrants then we won’t have to keep building and ruining the island.
Report abuse
Re 3 (Mick) – I think some of the ‘immergrants’ probably get jobs because they can spell – or at least use a dictionary.
Report abuse
I have been in the catering industry for 30 years and I have worked all over the world doing so.Hotels,Restaurants,Cruise Liners,Butler to Hollywood celebs ect.Allways made a lot of money and had some great times doing so.I could’nt stand the thought of working in a bank or office day in day out,9 till 5,1 hour for lunch and so on,only see the sun when you go on holiday,same routine every day.You do need a certain amount of skill in these jobs and half the people who I’ve served or waited on would’nt have a clue how to do it!!
Report abuse
I foresee that the finance industry in the West in general will shrink over the next decades and Jersey will not be immune to this
A large part of the world’s economic growth over the next few decades are going to occur in China and the banking industry will move to service this. Already Chinese banks are huge and very profitable.
These sort of changes are inevitable and part of the changing economic scene. Just like the the close of the 20th century saw the decline of Europe and the rise of the United States, economic power is shifting decisively to the Chinese.
What the results of this will be in terms of the distribution of wealth and power will be is hard to say but the post Second World War world is starting to come to an end.
Maybe it would be a good time for a forward thinking lawyer to start learning Chinese and getting used to the idea of living in an apartment in Hong Kong?
Report abuse
When I first returned to the island after getting my degree I worked for almost four months as a porter at one of Jersey’s hotel – I didn’t feel any shame at this as I had a lot of fun and learned new skills.
I was living with my father who is retired, rather than having to live at his expense I was able to help put food on the table until a better job came along – as such I was very proud of the fact I had an honest job.
As one of the island’s recruitment agencies pointed out to me at the time, it’s far easier to find work while in a job in any case, so there’s no need to feel that your expectations have been lowered in any sense, honest work is honest work when all’s said and done.
Report abuse
Gorst,Damn cheek,Lower your expectations,wait on table….does he know that most waiting on jobs are also live in….how can a person with say £200 per week rent,work for minimum wage, fine if they don’t want to eat and can sit in the dark without heat, I suppose he would say go to bed with your coat and socks on to keep warm, these out of touch people who seek to pass the buck are pitiful, how can he walk down the street and expect any respect after this outrageous statement.these guys blow money like it was worthless, they need to be creating real jobs for real people…ahh but then they might have to actually do something constructive,,I don’t know how they sleep at night.he’s happy to send millions of OUR money to foreign aid,yes that’s right Deputy, OUR money lest you have forgotten where you get it from. Stop this self indulgent gesturing abroad,and give locals a job ,that money could be put into a recession work scheme, like the old winter work scheme,how dare you come out with what you did .you ought to stand down,or apologise and get off your butt and give folks work…you are no use to us otherwise.
Report abuse
What!!!!!! How is one suppossed to drive around in ones BMW if one cannot afford to run it???
Or pay the HP on it, oh daddy! do help!!
Report abuse
There seems to be a an assumption the “Jersey People” wont take jobs such as waiting on tables and working in shops / fields because it is “beneath them”.
The truth is that that most of Jersey’s unemployed would willingly take these jobs if they paid enough! Most Jersey people, especially the recently unemployed, already have outgoings and need sufficient wages to meet those outgoings.
I agree with Leah’s point that the available jobs have a certain degree of skills associated with them, but even if these unemployed could hold down the job, they could not afford to – they would soon find themselves homeless.
Until jobs in catering / hospitality / agriculture etc pay a decent wage, or rents/cost of living reduces, then any initiative to encourage local unemployed to accept the available positions will unfortunately fall on stony ground
Report abuse
Leah you make valid points. It is viewed that your job title bestows prestige and possessions. This is what Jersey has become since finance got entrenched in Jersey life with its better than thou and look at me I’m marvellous because I work in finance attitudes. Oh I nearly forgot don’t forget the latest 4×4 parked in the driveway to suitably impress the neighbours with. One has to laugh at this snobish behaviour which is becoming more and more prevalent now.
Because of the prevalence of the attitudes I outlined above many people wouldn’t be seen dead in these types of jobs which entail actual physical work and getting one’s hands dirty often for peanuts. Having said that it might be a good idea to pay a decent living wage to allow people to do more than just struggle to survive. The minimum wage is far short of what is required to get by over here. It would then remove this barrier to doing these sort of jobs for the local community.
Having said that I can’t see what is good about being a keyboard monkey, in a sterile work environment bashing away on one’s keyboard all day. Too much like being a battery hen for my liking. Oh I forgot people will do anything if the money is high enough.
Report abuse
Coming soon to a resturant near you EX deputy Gorst waiting on tables to serve your needs
Report abuse
I’m trying to decide whether Deputy Gorst actually said this in the way it has been reported, or whether it has been spun to make him sound incredibly pompous?either way it is hardly complimentary to either “Immigrants”(Who ever they are?) or “Waiters”!(Or shop assistants/construction workers/and Hotel staff)
For a start all jobs whether “Manual” or “Clerical” are essential otherwise one assumes they would not exist!
As Waiters seem to have been particularly singled out, it is appropriate to state that it is not an easy job waiting on tables as anybody who has tried it would undoubtedly know!In fact a Restaurant (Fast-food and otherwise) is totally dependent on the performance of front of house staff for the continued existence of the business!You can cook marvelous food but if it’s hurled in front of your customer by some surly individual with BO and halitosis who can’t even be bothered to ensure they’ve delivered it to the right person I daresay you will be wondering why you have no customers.
Waiting on tables is actually an art and there is nothing servile or demeaning about it, done properly.In fact done properly it can add ambiance to even the most mundane restaurant. It is a job which is literally what you make it! And as such is far more individualistic than working in a highly controlled environment such as that which prevails in most offices.
Exactly the same applies to the other jobs singled out for comment here, they are all what you make of them in the end.
As is being a politician Deputy, and just a word of advice if this is reported correctly, I should be wary when going into any restaurants for a while particularly if what I was once told by a waiter at the Savoy is true, about how to deal with particularly pompous and awkward customers!
Thank goodness he did not include airline cabin staff as their remedy involves a certain substance (Tasteless and non toxic) added to coffee which has immediate and quite monumental effect!A levelling experience at 30,000 ft!
Report abuse
Ref jerry@no5 i bet your a non local banker and that is not mis-spelt luckily enough
Report abuse
“Having said that I can’t see what is good about being a keyboard monkey, in a sterile work environment bashing away on one’s keyboard all day. Too much like being a battery hen for my liking. Oh I forgot people will do anything if the money is high enough. ”
Says the guy who seems to be commenting on here an awful lot, bashing away on the keyboard in the spare time…..you keyboard monkey..
Report abuse
Been out of work for 6 months and despite loving Jersey, I moved to Europe and got a job in 5 days!!!
Didn’t revise my expectations, just got a job that wasn’t in the finance sector for real money and all I had to do was acknowledge the fact that Jersey has gone to hell thanks to our council of ministers and their blinkered approach. Good luck beans, you’re an endangered species!
Report abuse
His comments seem to infer that there are no locals working in these industries. He is also condescending towards those industries. He may as well have quoted Norman Tebbit.
What the people in government need to do is see what industries can take the place of those in deline, including finance.
Report abuse
I am a Technical writer by profession but I don’t consider waiting on tables, working in a shop, hotel, etc., below me.
If ever I found myself desperate and “out of work”, I would take ANY job. And as far as pay is concerned, I’d take the going rate, others have to!
Job titles are just that and nothing more. I never consider anyone superior or inferior to me, just because of their profession.
Plautus summed it up best: there’s only thing that differentiates the begger (Mendicus) from the Medical man (Medicus) and that’s “one letter more”. And when that registers, you’ve hit the point!
Report abuse
I hope none of you arrogant Jersey folk ever want to work in any place other than Jersey ! You think this little island was designed specially for Jersey people and no others can enjoy what it has to offer. You are all quite happy to pay immigrants minimum wage but you yourselves wont work for that ! As usual, blame the foreigners for your demise. What a sad place the world has become.
Report abuse
whilst the minister is correct in identifying that during the current economic situation people should widen their brief with respect to employment. Positions waiting on tables, chambermaiding, etc in the tourist industry could easily be filled by local residents, particularly during the six weeks the tourist seasons now lasts. Many would even get live-in accommodation, thus potentially saving on rental benefits.
Similarly if a man can wire a plug, why not a house? and plumbing lets face it if you’ve changed one tap washer you’ve done an apprenticeship. As for carpentry and steel working didn’t we all do at least one term in wood and metal work at school?
Whilst I am one for encouraging people to keep their skills transferable I fear trying to turning a fund manager into a Corgi registered plumber of a trust administrator into an NIECIEC approved electrician should be as easy as turning an accountant into a lion tamer.
Sadly Mr Gorst has failed to see the reality of the situation, the historical erosion of Jersey as a tourist destination or the high degree of qualification now needed to work in the building trades (a consequence of States legislation!). It is just not that simple Mr Gorst, sadly unlike being a States member, most industries need one to possess recognized qualifications and whilst a working knowledge of Tax laws is clear evidence of ability it just doesn’t help one to lay bricks.
Get real Mr Gorst, this hole was dug by you and past States assemblies, a complete and utter failure to protect traditional industries (agriculture, fishing and tourism) whilst there were rich pickings in developing off shore finance is why we can’t cope. You put all your eggs in one basket and now that basket is broke.. so stop whining and pointing fingers and accept that you as a legislator are the one at fault.
regards
the worm
Report abuse
Great idea Adrian, let’s increase the minimum wage, not by just an inflationary bit but a proper increase, eh? The restaurant owner, who has taken a risk in building up his business and probably works 12-14 hours a day, can take less profit for himself, can’t he, lazy devil. Or increase his prices of course, making it even more expensive for tourists and therefore bad for Tourism – but we do want industries other than Big Bad Finance don’t we? And for my friend Jersey Bean, more expensive to take Mrs Bean out to supper once in a while. Cost of living in Jersey, eh?
May I humbly suggest some joined up thinking old chap.
Report abuse
I Agree,
The States members should clean their own offices and toilets it is not beneath them.
They should take pack lunches and not eat on expenses.
The change has to be from the top if we are led into this by example it will work.
Please can you ask the man in the red robe to get me a diet coke and chips or I will not be leaving a tip.
Report abuse
Fix the problem witn employers hiring people without 5 years while those with 5 years are out of work. The States have made this sitiuation much worse than it needed to be, islanders have zero confidence in them. People aren’t going to take lower paid jobs if they don’t have too. The problem is your only as good as your last job and when the tide turns you’ll struggle to command the wage.
Report abuse
Not everyone who works in finance has that opinion of everyday shop workers/cleaners etc…
I wasn’t able to get to job for nearly a year when I moved to jersey and I applied for nearly every job in the paper, no matter what the pay was…the finance industry gave me that chance to get a steady wage each month.
even now i, although I work very hard to keep my job, I still cant afford a car and have to spend every penny i make paying my way. we’re not all extremly well off.
would the world be happy if we were all paid minimun wages….get over yourselves
Report abuse
A single person living in a 1-bedroom flat gets £285 per week Income Support. If that person is going to work with its added cost of social security, income tax and travel etc. lets say they would need to make £350 pw to be financially in the same position as on Income Support. At £6 ph (minimum wage) the person would have to work close to 60 hours a week to break even.
So where is the incentive to work?
If you are on Income Support and get a job; they will disregard only 10% of what you earn.
I.e. you earn £320 pw having taken on a job; 90% = £288 is then taken off your income support so they won’t give you any extra money – so why bother working.
There has to be incentive to get back into work and do “any job”. I don’t think its the job itself that people shy away from its the working 55 hours a week (on minimum wage)before your better off than being on Income Support that does it!!
Any 40 hour a week job will have to be at £9 ph to make it worthwhile.
Until Dep Gorst sorts this issue out he is just making headlines and blaming the unemployed.
Report abuse
Having worked in retail for the last 11 years i do know for a fact that a lot of islanders think that shop work is beneath them. A lot of customers where i work treat all of us, including managers, with nothing but rude contempt
Paying staff £9 is a good idea but where will the money come from – prices will shoot up to pay for it or more staff will be made redundant to pay for the pay rises
Report abuse
mike there is no excuse not to pay people a living wage. This is exploitation of migrant labour because the local work force can’t afford to work for peanuts can they? It is only because some migrants will work for such low wages that businesses can get away with this. Please remember these migrants are able to survive because they are probably sharing a room with 3 or 4 others it is wrong to expect people to do this in the 21st century.
Why do you think big business likes migrant labour around the world? It is to undercut local labour by importing cheaper foreign labour, and to maximise profits for business owners.
Either prices are reduced for importing goods and travel etc and VAT is taken off of the local prices and certain people get less of the cream and then you could keep wages the same or even reduce wages and prices, or, you pay more it is as simple as that.
Fair is fair or do you expect cheap foreign labour to line businesses owners pockets? Do you think that prices are kept down because of cheap migrant labour or are the prices in reality the same as they would be if they paid a living wage to these people. Is the extra money going into the owner’s bank account? I would say the later myself.
There is too much greed in Jersey now where certain people expect too much for too little, especially on the wages front.
Do you honestly expect someone to live on £6 odd an hour for a 40 hour week, or £240/week over here with the excessive cost of living in Jersey? It simply isn’t possible especially with a family to support in the private rental market, with any quality of life.
Paul you are quite right in what you say why should people work for nothing in real terms? The whole system needs overhauling it is a shambles. People aren’t silly and many will take the better option every time especially when they perceive the other end to be getting away with things as well.
As you say pay more like £9 an hour and you will get many more local people taking up these jobs.
Report abuse
many Jersey people would find living on catering wages difficult but are they the same people who complain when a price of a sandwich goes up twenty pence to cover wage and utility inflation.
Report abuse
hahaha about time all you lazy bones get off their backsides and did some real work
Report abuse
ps i am a local buy live in the uk and funnily enough i work in the hotel industry pay is not great but survivable,suck it in and do some work
Report abuse
to #26 travel costs??? you live on an island 9×5
Report abuse
“ISLANDERS will have to lower their expectations”…ooh look at me…i’m the king of the castle…
The amount of non locally born residents on the island is shocking.I have been working away from this, my place of birth for 5 years, driving buses in oxford,i am currently visiting family on my hols.i was told a story of a young jersey girl,working in the linen dept. of a locally owned store.she was helpful,friendly and polite (rare combination).she was let go,to make way for a cheaper, romanian immigrant.it seems there is work for the lowest bidder.i have notice on my visit,that,a jersey accent,or even engish,is hard to find.i am not racist,and believe everyone deserves a chance,as after all,we are all equal are we not? but surely homegrown talent and the tallentless should have the first punch in this fight to survive.i think the peace pipe has been left in the wrong hands for far too long.I have many non british friends in oxford, and 90% of them are only there for a slice of the cash cow,sending money home to pay for there houses and retirement.and i cant blame them.on a different note,what were the people smoking when they signed up for this new fire pit down la collette…i know a pound does not buy much ,but an island built on finance, should, know their arse from elbow.and if you’re wondering why i’m working away from the island,it is because of those schadenfreude who look down thier noses at you,and only think about number one.
Report abuse
I’m not waiting on any tables. We have a quallies system in Jersey. This differentiates people on the basis of status & class. If you have quallies, why would one demean oneself by doing a job only fit for students or immigrants? The only way you’ll get many ‘normal folk’ doing jobs like that in Jersey, is to completely remove the qualification system
Report abuse
Truthseeker 9
…how can a person with say £200 per week rent, work for minimum wage, fine if they don’t want to eat and can sit in the dark without heat…
How right you are!
But how come the “high-earners” are only JUST starting to understand the difficulties of life on a minimum wage?
Could this “sudden awareness” have something to do with the fact they are now faced with the same prospects?
Diane 11
…Until jobs in catering/hospitality/ agriculture, etc., pay a decent wage, or rents/cost of living reduces, then any initiative to encourage local unemployed to accept the available positions will unfortunately fall on stony ground…
Altough your comment is proof that “job-title” is not a problem for many “Jersey people”, it has rather an “I’m all right Jack” ring to it.
In others words, although it’s fine for immigrants to work for a pittance, the same does not apply to “us”, or am I wrong?
Report abuse
Adrian: “Do you honestly expect someone to live on £6 odd an hour for a 40 hour week, or £240/week over here with the excessive cost of living in Jersey? It simply isn’t possible especially with a family to support in the private rental market, with any quality of life. ”
Here’s the crux: the reason why the cost of living is so high in Jersey is precisely because most people are paid a decent wage. If you increase salaries at the bottom, all you will do is increase the cost of living for everyone.
We have a budget defecit, we have a high cost of living. So what you do is reduce the money supply. I’d suggest a requirement that everyone earning above say £25,000 must put at least 10% of the “surplus” into a private pension pot. It’s not taxation but it will lock away money and also address long term pension issues for the majority.
Report abuse
Adrian suggested
“…pay more like £9 an hour and you will get many more local people taking up these jobs.”
Won’t this just mean that word will get around and more immigrants will come to take advantage of the pay increase?
Report abuse
no 33 I wonder if you would say the same thing if you were out of a job in England, and they gave all the jobs to the English before anyone else?? Equally the number of “immigrants” in England is shocking, it happens all over the world!!!
Report abuse
34 Philippa Vale. I appreciate your honesty, it’s an attitude shared by many on this island. Unfortunately, our current quallies system does create ignorant viewpoints and feelings of grandeur & superiority. You’re absolutely correct, our qualification system creates awful divisions in society based on status & class. I have my quals, but would love to see the whole system dismantled
Report abuse
It’s not a case of any job being “beneath” local people – it’s a case of will employers take them on? The number of times you get told you’re over-qualified for jobs is crazy. If you’re willing to take on the role because you’re desperate for work, then why can’t they give you a chance?
As for working in retail, waiting on tables or in hotels – since so many hotels and shops are closing – it’s not as though we have a limitless number of these jobs either, is it?
We still don’t see Senator Ozouf using our tax millions to diversify the economy though, do we, despite all his promises? All he’s doing is pumping money into “diversifying” the finance industry.
Report abuse
I personaly think the minimum wage should be £10 per hour living here.
After all Jerseys supposed to be life enriching and lets face it,if you buy a sandwich & a cup of tea at a restaurant in town its not much change from £10! Also Cod & chips are £13.95 on average!
There about £3 or £4 in a fish & chip shop which goes to show someones blatantly ripping us off here.
In a lot of cases the uk pays more than can be earnt here, in Ian Gorsts so called lower standard of job.Jerseys free from vat but when you add gst 5% in Marks plus all the other hidden costs its practically impossible to exist on a minimum wage. The uk is often cheaper on goods including the vat. I wonder how Mr Gorst would cope & manage his lifestyle on the minimum wage.
Report abuse
It is quite remarkable that there is a sudden concern for all of the people earning minimum wage – ever since someone suggested that our lofty, wards of the state, locally born/qualified people might have to consider taking employment in the low paying industries that have traditioinally been staffed by foreigners. For decades it has been absolutely fine that the ‘servant class’ were used and abused by local businesses and residents, but the situation has changed now that local Jersey folks might be subjected to the same conditions they’ve imposed on others for so long.
As for the questions regarding survival on minimum wage – why not ask one of the Polish or Portugese immigrants working 60-80 hours per week how they manage. I’m sure that they’ll be floored by the sudden interest taken by locals in their plight.
In regards to #26 Paul: ‘So where is the incentive to work?’. It’s called pride and self-respect!! That’s what ditinguishes the lowly immigrant worker from the local ‘dole’ recipient. One will work their every waking hour to better their life and the lives of their family and remain ‘afloat’ – the other is happy to get by on he efforts of others, all the while moaning that they can’t ‘catch a break’.
Report abuse
Beaumont 39
I think Philippa Vale 34 was being facetious, either that or it’s a wind up…
Report abuse
I’m in a little bit of debt at the moment,I had a small business, the bank kept offering me loans, I didn’t accept a huge amount just enough to help my business. A large amount of States ruling was eventually the cause of it’s downfall. I work 9-5 now and earn just above minimum wage. I contacted CAB and they helped me to sort out with my debtors how much I could afford to pay. My debtors hastle me all the time for more money and I barely survive on whats left of my wages at the end of the month. For an instance my debtors consider £25.00 per week is enough for my food!They think I should walk to work to save money etc etc.
I agree with people that say that it is almost impossible to live on minimum wage on this Island. I leave here for good in 5 weeks after living here for 25 years, leaving family behind, just to try and find work elswhere and earn a decent living!!!
Report abuse
Islanders doing jobs that immigrants do? It kind of reminds one that Jersey does not pay JSA to foks who lose their jobs and expects them to roll their sleeves up.
If this does happen, I hope that those in this situation realise just how tough life in the “real world” can be. Perhaps they’ll stop regarding immigrants who work long hours in low paid jobs with such contempt?
Report abuse
@ Phillippa Vale
I have My quallies (and a degree in accounting)and i work in retail and love every minute of it apart from rude arrogant people who treat us like ****.
Your comments sound like those of an upper class toff that has no idea of what happens in the real world.
I would not change my career choice – i could earn more in finance but i’m happy!!!
Report abuse
will we be told to “eat cake” next?
(broiche).
Report abuse
Adie, still don’t think you’ve answered the point. What do you think will be the consequence of a significant increase in the minimum wage? Work it through, use a piece of paper and a pen, draw arrows if you have to. By the way, owner-managers of businesses in retail and agriculture and service industries work way, way more than 40 hours a week, and many have risked their own livelihoods in the first place. Done that have you?
Report abuse
Another reason this out of touch useless Government should be disbanded and an Island wide same day general election,and serious civil service pruning should take place..just weeks ago wealthy punters gambled and lost.on a scheme and our Government,the same men who tell you to work for min wage bailed them out over £ six hundred thousand pounds, that’s right gave them your money…now what made their case so deserving..? we all know why….but hey you don’t need any financial help do you, perhaps the unemployed should all go down to the Capanina,eat and put it on the States tab.
Report abuse
I do wish people will stop convincing themselves that locals are the enemy and there is a massive divide between local and non-locals in Finance. That is simply untrue – the common enemy are the fools in charge of “governing” this rock.
I work for a large bank and we have just as many, english, irish, scottish, portuguese, polish, zimbabwean, north american and plenty of other nationalities as we do Jersey born.
As someone mentioned earlier a lot of jobs require years of training and professional qualifications which, if you atre prepared to put in the work and study for will reap good rewards. What is wrong with that?
My fiancee was recently made redundant from finance and when she applied for a minimum wage job(to help reduce her still required Social Security contributions) the interviewer looked at her Cv and almost declined because she was “over qualified”. My fiancee persuaded them that she would be an asset and she could (just) manage with the lower wage for now and was duly offered the job. She has since told me of the factory like conditions and dictatorship managing that goes with the job and I am appalled…..for instance if you are a minute late for whatever reason then they deduct you 1/2 an hours pay!
Surely the employment legislation means there shouldn’t be any victorian style employers around in Jersey??
I am local myself BTW, but my fiancee is non-local.
Report abuse
#36 Mad Foetus, liking that idea in your last paragraph. At least it’s a start, just a pity Governments don’t bother giving thought to any creative ways of handling the situation.
#45 Rickard, ‘job snobs’ are at least consistent, they’ll look down their nose at people doing certain jobs regardless of who they are. Still, if these people are made redundant they’ll fall harder than you or I. The saying ‘be kind to those you meet on the way up’ is (with a little adaptation) rather apt.
Report abuse
BS Deluxe, I’ve had the ‘over-qualified’ statement in the past also. I suspect it’s an excuse given by someone who is threatened that you’ll be after their own job, or that you’ll consider yourself to be above certain tasks.
And there’s nothing wrong with studying and training for a specific field of work, however, it definitely doesn’t give anyone the right to look down their nose at people in other jobs. I’m not suggesting that you, personally, feel it does, but there are clearly those who think it is the case. Two of the smartest (and most academically educated) people I’ve ever met worked as a cleaner and a farmer. From comments I’ve seen posted on ThisIsJersey before I know that would certainly challenge some of the job-title snobbery around in Jersey.
Report abuse
mike my point is businesses shouldn’t be using migrant labour as a way to maximise profits like they do. We all know of those charging high prices and paying low wages so low wages doesn’t necessarily mean a good deal for Joe Public does it?
I see you go on about risk, well workers risk their futures every day, not knowing whether they will have a job tomorrow if the boss can find cheaper labour elsewhere! The risk in business isn’t as great as its made out to be and employers are not doing workers any favours by employing them even though others try and say they are! Workers are there to make a profit from and nothing else.
Also by employing migrant labour all that is happening is that more people are being sucked into a very small space which will lead to the inevitable problems of law and order and welfare issues meaning Joe Public picks up the tab with increased taxes for all this.
The employers however keep maximising their profits and don’t have to pay for social housing for these newcomers or unemployment benefit should they lose their job to a cheaper migrant.
I myself would say that should businesses want to avail themselves of the cheapest labour then they should pass savings onto the end user. They should also be responsible for these employees and not be able to dump them onto social security when they decide they don’t want them anymore because they have found a cheaper source of migrant labour from a new country.
All this rampant cut costs and maximise profits, at all costs captalism is doing is driving all but the select few to increased taxation and inevitably being poorer whilst the few live the life of Riley. Ths isn’t a good social or political move especially if you want stability in a country. Social strife will be the end result with rising racial tensions, as the masses get disillusioned with things and turn on anyone who is different.
Is this what you are advocating with your below survival wages? I look at the bigger picture not just the increased costs by paying a bit more to avoid these issues.
Anyway I believe import costs are too high and someone is doing very well from this. Therefore if the government got a grip everything would be reduced in price over here thus preventing the need to raise subsistance wages to £9-10 an hour.
There are solutions it only requires a firm hand from government to enable everyone to benefit. However as I believe governments are run by big business for big business, there is no chance of this occuring is there?
I would ask the obvious question if no one is prepared to work for £6 an hour then wages need to be raised to encourage more people to do these jobs. You can’t keep importing cheap labour. Also if others won’t work for £6 an hour as it is beneath them then why should they expect other people to do so?
These are my own views on things but I think they are fair and genuine unlike much in real life today. This is why things are getting worse as far as I am concerned and will only carry on doing so until enough people say enough is enough.
Report abuse
the immigrants are taking our jobs!!!! this remind me off the words all the political right wings use when the economic situation is bad.it’s the same history in a diferent place.
dont you learn with the past??? the immigrants are not to blame it’s yourselfs, move your ass and start working instead of staying at home receiving the beneficts from the state,payed with the tax and insurance that the immigrants payed from that 7 pounds an hour jobs.
it’s enough you should show us some gratitude.
Report abuse
Adrian 53
I think it is quite clear that ENOUGH PEOPLE are already saying “ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!”
Report abuse
After being made redundant 6 months ago (and training a UK contractor up to do my job), I am now temping in an office & just about earn enough to cover my mortgage… The rest of my bills get paid out of my hard earned savings.
If I waited on tables too I would be constantly working and eventually make myself ill and therefore not be able to do either job properly!
Maybe if I was less proud I could also go cap in hand to social once I get signed off with bad back, depression and all the other things that people get long term sick from…!
Report abuse
Evan 44
Such a sad story (unfortunately, there are too many stories like yours). Good Luck!
Report abuse
OK Adie, third chance. And I’m not seeking to change your big-business-is-bad-particularly-if-its-finance views, nor your I’m-alright-jack-but-you’re-not-from-here-so-go-back-home-instead-of-trying-to-better-yourself stance, just asking you to work through what you propose regarding a significant increase in the minimum wage. You do want Jersey to diversify away from Finance, don’t you? For agriculture to grow again? And you do want Tourism to flourish and thrive, don’t you? Then how, in the name of Lord Logic, will inflicting a £9 minimum wage on restauranteurs help achieve that? Come on, does the prospect of lower profits increase the likelihood of entrepreneurs investing in a business, or decrease it? And don’t we want small entrepreneurs (I’m not talking height here)to take the risk and create jobs for other people? Oh yes, for Jersey people, and if they’re from Jersey, there is a God given right to a high standard of living, isn’t there.
Report abuse
It s better 2 work 4 less money than not to work at all.
Report abuse
mike 58
Regarding your comment
…Oh yes, for Jersey people, and if they’re from Jersey, there is a God given right to a high standard of living, isn’t there…
WHY?
Isn’t jersey a meritocracy?
So if you are “talentless” but come from Jersey you have a God given right to a high standard of living?
And if you’re work-shy but come from Jersey you have a God given right to a high standard of living?
I bet all the “talentless, work-shy Jersey folk” are happy about that!
But somebody should tell the “talented, hard-working ones” because I’m not sure if they are aware of the fact!
Report abuse
Mr M 33# I agree with yu very much!! Although i am working in Jersey! When i returned home from university with the degree i was told would “help me in the future” i was unable to get a job!! I worked in a beach cafe flipping burgers in the day and in pubs and clubs at night! I have a great job now which i enjoy but still do the odd shift in the pub for a bit of extra money! I notice how people look down at you etc and often when i say what i work as during the day they are quite shocked and ask why i am working in the pub! To say that these jobs are not very important is scandelous!! I know people that would be completely unable to work in a pub or shop as they have no people skills what so ever!! You need to be approachable and friendly and some people just dont have that about them!! I believe the 5 year rule should be implemented in more places to assure that those who have been here the longest get the jobs they have been waiting for! First come, first served as they say!! Constant influx’s of immigrants isn’t helping the economic situation over here and it isn’thelping out on the streets either! People are becoming incresingly frustrated with the situation and it will eventually trun into something nasty unless something is done about it shortly!!
Report abuse
34 Philippa Vale – I can’t make up my mind whether your comments are serious or not. Either way, you made me laugh lots
Report abuse
You Jersey folk are way too lazy to do anything in catering!!!! The reason they get people from UK or ‘immigrants’ to do ‘your jobs’ is because most of you lot are too useless or not educated enough. I have Jersey people here that I do refer to as friends and they do work very hard but there is about 75% of them let the side down BADLY.
Just stop moaning and get a job. I was doing catering for 3 years before I could find a decent job here and the same went for my g/f. Where she sometimes was very badly mistreated by some of the locals where she worked who were over paid pigs munching and stuffing their faces on their bacon fries and drinking their ale.
Now when you are told to look else where than the finance industry because of the lack of jobs you complain that everything else is to blame expect your own fault. It’s plain Ridiculous that you all have mentioned the minimum wage should go up as this will increase taxes and cost of living which will make you lot complain more.
Just do what the title above tells and take anything that you get and stop moaning about it!
Report abuse
Done my bit for queen and country(Island) served in Afghanistan,Iraq and the Balkans Travelled many miles around the world to put food on the table for my Jersey family,yet when i come back home to Jersey no one will employ me,from building sites to working for the states you name it i have applied,the world doesn’t owe me anything but a job with a decent wage is the only thing i want.Her Majesty’s Government will snap me up and ship me straight back into Helmand Province if i applied for a posting.Fair to you?Face done in an Afghan waddy with the threat of being hit anytime is not a nice feeling,I just hope i can find a job in the next 2 months otherwise i’ll have to put in the paper work for yet another tour and put more pressure on my wife and 2 children.
Report abuse
mike what happened when minimum wage was brought in, local businesses were claiming ruinship did it happen no! So if it can happen once it can happen again can’t it? I ask why the need for such big profits? Businesses should be happy with a bit less not more and more all the time. It is just pure greed now to get evey last penny. This is bad maybe you think this is good?
Anyway I have already given you an alterative which you have failed to comment on for some reason yet again.
As per finance this is morally and ethically bad in my book. Sorry but there you go. It has caused many of the problems we have over here now. Unfortunately the government has gone down the easy option of expansion with all the resultant pressures on the islands we now face. This is the reality of things.
Do you honestly think Jersey is a better place or worse place to live in 2009 as opposed to 1979? Are children safer playing out in the streets now or not? Can you leave your house unlocked without fear of burglary now or not?
As per agriculture and tourism these have all but been destoyed now. Who wants to come to an overpriced island, with poor looking flats springing up in many areas, that allegedly doesn’t have VAT but charges higher prices than the UK? Go back to the golden days of the 50-60 and 70′s Jersey prices were much less than the UK but since finance has arrived we have priced our selves out of the market pure and simple.
Yes entrepreneurs create jobs this is their purpose in life but they don’t need such big profit margins do they to set up a business? As per risk this is over blown as far as I am concerned and the top end more than makes up for any slight risk an entrepreneur may face. Who makes the entrepreneur their money at the end of the day? I don’t see many rich entrepreneurs who don’t make use of workers do you?
Also for anyone living in Jersey whether Jersey born or not they all face over the top prices. It isn’t about a high standard of living, it is about survival hence needing a big rise in the minimum wage, or are you happy for many over here, most who may well be immigrant labour to be taken advantage of like this? If you are you are the I’m Alright Jack aren’t you?
I would ask you again would and could you work for £6 an hour and have any quality of life over here? If you answer no then why do you expect others to do so? If you work in finance then you don’t have to worry about these sort of issues do you? However you should spare a thought for others who don’t have such easy jobs and who are expected to put in a hard day’s toil for minimum wage, with no bonuses or allowances and only two weeks holiday entitlement per year.
One little example for you just think on minimum wage one visit to a local doctor will set you back 5.5 hours pay on minimum wage. What happens if you need to see a doctor regularily throughout the year? Do you expect the state and the tax payer to step in to enable this person to live? Multiple this up by how many in the same boat? and no wonder Jersey is in trouble, as far as I am concerned.
Report abuse
Reducing the number of non-qualified staff within some organisations is a good thing. Everyone being willing to pitch in in hard times is also good. So why then did the States Members give themselves a £1,000 pay increase and what is being done to ensure said states members do actually earn their salaries? There are a large amount of £44kplus salaries going to states members who appear to be doing very little. Its about time perhaprs we encouraged them to look from within…..
Report abuse
63. G,
This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have read in a long time. If I was to make comment like yours, but replace the “Jersey folk” part with “Black people” or even “Portuguese” I doubt the post would even get past the moderators and I would be considered a racist. Yet people are allowed to come on here and constantly make stupid non-factual posts about locals all the time and it is deemed acceptable.
For you to make outrageous statements like this (even including your very own statistics in the guise of percentages, well done you) suggests your pulling ridiculous figures from your lower region. Like I have said in another post, Jersey students consistently perform better then their UK counterparts. Where you’re getting this “Stupid locals” assumption from is beyond me. Your post indicates to me you know only a few locals and therefore do not have the right to tar them all with the same brush.
From reading your post (which looks like it’s been written by someone in pre-school maybe?) I would say you are the un-educated one around here.
Report abuse
‘The amount of non locally born residents on the island is shocking.I have been working away from this, my place of birth for 5 years, driving buses in oxford,i am currently visiting family on my hols’
The amount of non locally born residents in Oxford is shocking. My husband is a trained bus driver but can’t get a job due to people from abroad taking the jobs. Its terrible, the people of Oxford should be employed first!
Report abuse
#63 G, your first comment is a load of utter nonsense.
We employ both locals and non-locals. Some locals AND non-locals, left due to bullying from another nationality of non-locals. Apparently the ‘taking our jobs’ phrase is used by both locals and non-locals alike.
Unfortunately locals working in catering often become a target for the resentment of their non-local colleagues. On top of that the locals usually end up being the ones left to deal with difficult customers, and suppliers, despite receiving the same hourly rate. So they end up taking their work home with them while their colleagues don’t.
Looking at our employees over the years it seems that locals and non-locals are lazy, hardworking, kind, nasty, stupid, smart, alcoholic… in pretty much equal measure. People are just people, wherever you go in this world.
However, if YOU are hardworking, chances are the non-locals you surround yourself with will be likeminded, so you may never witness the lazy ones.
Report abuse
to G spot on mate could not agree with you more
although i am a native but work in the hotel industry and when i 1st started out people were shocked to find out i was a local wanting to work
in the hotel industry, too much snobbery goes on in
jersey and it won’t stop until the government get tough with the local spongers,
stop the benifits 3/4 on benifits have no reason not to work
Report abuse
In the UK ,jobs in catering hotels etc are supposed to be covered by minimum wage,But hotel ,restaraunt owners are meeting the minimum wage by making it up out of tips!awful.
Report abuse
#67 “Like I have said in another post, Jersey students consistently perform better then their UK counterparts.”
Whilst a number of people would probably agree with your statement because we all like to inflate the Jersey image, it looks like an opinion rather than a fact.
In case anyone thinks that the information came from your lower region perhaps you could quote a source – other than Jersey street lore.
Even if Jersey students are achieving higher grades, which is understandable given their average social background, it doesn’t always mean that they are as experienced as others in the competition for jobs.
Report abuse
Want a job? ‘Wait on tables’
I sometimes order “Filet” at McDonalds on the grounds that it could be marginally healthier than burger.
Because it is a minority order they invariably reply “We’re waitin’ on yer filet”‘
So I wait at the table while they wait for the filet and eventually wait on me!
Who says anyone can’t do this job!
Report abuse
65. Adrian – “If you work in finance then you don’t have to worry about these sort of issues do you? However you should spare a thought for others who don’t have such easy jobs…”
What a crock. To suggest that finance industry jobs are easy is completely farcical. Should you spare a thought for those who got themselves educated and worked their way up the (finance industry) ladder to ensure some sort of financial security. Shame on those selfish people! How dare they!
I must admint, I enjoy reading your posts Adrian, but purely from a comedic perspective. They have no factual (or even common sense) basis, but they do make me laugh.
And Mike – I completely agree with everything you have said. Keep up the good work.
Report abuse
Justice 64
You are wrong, the free world does owe you something.
I truly believe in meritocracy, and if anyone has true merit it’s you.
The states should ensure that you are given a job…a job fit for a hero…you shouldn’t have to look!
The fact that we are proud of you, just isn’t enough.
Report abuse
G 63. I notice some of your comments has been slated by a couple of posters, but your opinion on Jersey people is closer to home than some of us would like to admit. I have lived in Jersey 17 years now, but I must admit, our quallies system has a negative impact on Jersey people, as much as it does immigrants. I think people with quallies have a laissez faire attitude, they think there will be a job for them regardless, and therefore training or education are not so important. Worst of all, some folk born in Jersey believe birthright owes them a decent job and a good standard of living, they think they deserve this more than hard working immigrants, just because they were born here. I think reviewing our quallies system would be a good thing
Report abuse
#76 Rachel, I slated the ‘useless and uneducated’ comment. There is no statistical evidence whatsoever that Jersey people are any more ‘useless’ than those from any other nation. It is a ridiculous and rather nasty statement to make. Mind you there is sometimes the assumption that if you have English as your first language you are ‘Jersey’ but obviously that is not the case, maybe G is simply confused as to who is a product of Jersey’s education system and who came here from elsewhere.
Non-locals moan about how locals treat them, but then some non-locals honestly consider themselves intellectually superior to locals and it’s silly to think that people won’t pick up on such an attitude. Naturally, it works the other way as well. It’s one thing to ‘say the right things’ but it’s no help at all unless you actually mean them.
#64 I have to agree with Born Warrior #75, good luck in your search.
Report abuse
72, C Le Verdic
I could find many sources of this information with a simple google search. Here is a quote from a bbc news web-site:
“Jersey’s A Levels students have again outperformed their counterparts in England, Wales and Northern Island with nearly all teenagers opening their results today passing all their exams.
Amid the usual claims in national newspapers that exams are getting easier Jersey’s A Level students got a pass rate of 99.8%, compared to 96.9% in the UK.”
Google the quote if you want to see the source (I’m not sure if linking on here is allowed). I could post more like this, it’s the same headline year after year after year.
Report abuse
Non-Qauls Vs Quals: Whats the difference between the 2…other than some that think they are higher up the food chain. So why then for Non-qauls should we have to pay the £300-£600 more rent on Flats compared to A resident with qauls, just because it says non-qauls means we are looking at paying out even more rent than our fellow human beans. And when we do find a flat it looks like a converted Shed with less rooom to move in that a rat in a cage. Bear in mind this is on top of Living expenses..>Come on Human rights and all, why should they pay less than us??Are we not human too ???
Report abuse
Jub 78.
No-one can deny that hard work and a good memory pay off in examinations. And it’s also true that the right academic qualifications allow job-seekers to get to those much desired interviews. But from there on in, academic qualifications are just not enough, and must be supported by motivation, personality, emotional intelligence and unfortunately even appearance. Employers are far more likely to choose a bright, attractive person over a person with high marks…so does it really matter who has outperformed who?
Report abuse
79 Non-Quali
I think you’ll find that the rents are down to the landlords who exploit the quallies rule…..and a lot of the landlords I’ve had have been non-locals. So, again, the local gets slated for something which isn;t their fault.
Don’t you realise that a lot of J-Cats (non-local to you and I) get free or subsidised accommodation as a perk for them being here.
I work in finance and my previous employers use to house plenty of mainland staff in “Bank Accommodation”. These people were “non-essential” staff and only had to pay £100 per month “rent” even though they were still getting the same wages as their local conterparts. In comparison the locals were paying £1000 plus a month for rent….is this FAIR ????
G
your comment is fantastic. If you have 4 local friends and 3 of them are lazy then that’s your 75% there. You can’t tarnish the other 10′s of thousands of locals with this ratio. Besides people usually hang around like-minded people, people they have something in common with….does that mean that you too are lazy and uneducated???
Using your rationale then I can say I know several northern english people and they all like a drink….so 100% of northern english people are alcoholics!
Report abuse
Born Warrior – way back at 35!
Sorry. Please don’t think that I am ignoring you, but as you can probably tell, I don’t catch up with comments on this site too often!
To answer your point though – I did not intend for there to be a “I’m alright Jack” ring to my comment, but on the other hand, I suppose that in fact is actually the way it is – I am “alright”. I have a job that covers my outgoings so I am one of the lucky ones (at the moment – who knows what is around the corner).
I did not mean in any way to imply that it is “OK” for immigrants to work for a pittance. It’s not – but that’s the thing – they do, because they will, and they can!
Newly arrived, they generally have no fixed outgoings and at that point, they are able (and infinitely willing) to suit their living expenses to their income, although this will no doubt mean accepting hard work and hardship (perhaps sharing accommodation, working 2+ jobs etc) to achieve this. They are able to MAKE it possible to work for the minimum wage.
Most (but admittedly, not all) local unemployed already have fixed outgoings, so for them working for the minimum wage is probably not a viable option.
When I wrote my original comment, I had my sister in mind. She has been unemployed now for near on 2 years – definitely not through choice. She desperately would like to get back to work, but as described very well by Paul (post 26, 1st paragraph) people with outgoings cannot afford to take minimum wage jobs unless they want to end up homeless.
I don’t know if I have been able to explain my view point to you any more eloquently this time round, but as far as I see it, it is not a level playing field as far as immigrant/local is concerned.
This does not mean that I think it is OK for immigrants to suffer financial hardships. Personally I admire their tenacity and balls, but that doesn’t change the fact that they do have a small advantage over locals in that they can arrange their outgoings to suit their income rather than the other way round.
Report abuse
wait on tables!!this is not the jersey locals way!!we stay at home and get the welfare and social security benefits we don’t look for jobs for minimum wage!!!!we just blame the immigrants for taking are jobs WE DON’T WANT IN THE FIRST PLACE! this is how we locals do it this is jersey
Report abuse
#75.Born Warrior and #77 Leah Holmes,thanks for the comments,it’s means alot that the people of Jersey are thinking of the troops.
yeah it’s been tough to find employment,i think there’s a bit of a stigma to employ personal that have served in these places,just my personal opinion,I’d do anything work wise to get a bit of pride back and that i can raise my head and be part of society again,I feel that I’m a burden on the family and in the way.
I applied for 2 jobs yesterday and wasn’t even invited too an interview,Next job i go for i wont mention that i was in the Army,then maybe i might get somewhere? fingers crossed.
Report abuse
Adie, Ok, we’re not going to get further with this. With no skills but the application of graft, I could do 60 hours a week at £6, £360 a week, £1,500 plus a month, £18 grand a year -not luxury but I’d get by well enough. High rent but no tax. Would like more of course, but would there be enough businesses left in Adrianland to give me the opportunity?
Anyway, there we are. Can’t comment on 1979 as I’ve only been here since 1995. An interesting memory though -in 1995 when I arrived, there were two stories prevalent in the JEP. (1) Should we have a Casino? (2) Save the Pav!! Now, as I drove along the front and looked across to the park, a building that looked more like a Casino I have never seen. Oh, if only we’d connected the two. Plenty of work going at a Casino, probably no need for GST, big boost for Tourism, and a lovely old building saved. Social consequences yes, but there are many other ways to lose our shirts so society would survive. Ah well.
Report abuse
83# Jersey born…..what on earth are you on about!! There are plenty of locals who would do anything for a job, just the few bums who let the side down! 928000 unemployed in the uk at the moment – up by 220000 in the last 2 years!! There aren’t the jobs available for some and if there were then im pretty sure that percentage of them would be out there earning there crust like the rest of us!! As i said earlier we need to start implementing the 5 year rule a little more! Whats gna happen to the graduates and school leavers at the end of the year? They are gna be sat in the social claiming benefits coz they cant find work!! A very sad state of affairs we and the UK have gotten our selves into!!
Report abuse
B S Deluxe, you are factually incorrect in your comment 81. the bank workers may get reduced rent at £100 per month but that is for a room, within a large block of rooms. You could barely swing a cat in the room. furthermore they are paid UK wages, notably less than their counterparts in Jersey. Again you are incorrect in your facts and in answer to your question is it fair? No it isnt fair to the workers who have to put up with the shoddy accomadation. As a Jerseyman would you expect your children to live in a 8ft by 4ft room with a dodgy cooker and dodgy heating – I doubt it. Yet you treat foreigners like animals and expect them to live in Rats cages.
Report abuse
Justice, if I was an employer I would give you a job. Keep going you will get one in Jersey.
Report abuse
justice 84
You’d be surprised at just how many people are proud of our troops.
It is very dismaying to hear stories like yours, and it is the “duty” of the UK government or, in this case, the States to give job-priority to men who have done their bit for Queen and country (island).
If this is not possible, “our rulers” should at least provide “paid” re-training programmes with end-of-course-job-guarantee for soldiers who wish to return to civilian life.
If I were you, I’d let people know of my plight. Maybe your silence is your new enemy. Write to the JEP and all the local politicians. There’s no shame in letting people know that you’re looking for work…especially after being a soldier!
The politicians can’t help you, if they don’t know you exist.
Report abuse
Justice sorry to hear about your situation and I hope you get a job soon. Just a thought but I presume you have tried the Police force they are normally keen on ex-army types as they have some discipline in them, or what about the fire service?
You are right to stay out of Afghanistan if you can possibly avoid it. One army general was talking about being there for up to 40 years!
Just because you haven’t got a job at present doesn’t mean you are a burden to your family you mustn’t beat yourself up over this. Keep trying I am sure something will turn up. Don’t give up hope it is the most important thing to focus on right now.
One thing you could try is knocking on doors of companies and asking if they could have a job suitable for you and leaving your name if they haven’t at present? Worth a thought, if I was in HR in a company I would be impressed to see someone physically looking for a job. Oh what about B&Q?
Anyway thats my thoughts I wish you all the best in your endeavours.
Report abuse
I’m local too, there is no way I am going to wait on tables, my upbringing has taught me that I as Jerseyman I cannot do what I can get somebody else to do for half the price. It is the Jersey Way, we have been behaving this way for hundreds of years.
Report abuse
87
Actually it IS FACT. I know because I attended many parties at these “shoddy” appartments and they were a damn sight better kept than some of the private rentals I’ve lived in for almost £1000. They might have been in rooms, but what do you think most bedsits are like??
And actually it IS FACT they were paid the same as the local workers for the same job. I know this because I was good friends with them and they would boast about it.
They actually used what they saved to buy homes back on the mainland and still have more to spare going out every night.Their local counterparts had no chance of saving the same amount to put towards their own home here in Jersey and still enjoy their youth going out to boot. So please don’t give me the poor, poor banker living in squalid accommodation routine because it might be the case in your experience but it certainly was not in mine. Some even lived in hotel accommodation with all meals etc paid for…..I’d have given my right leg for that when I was younger!
Report abuse
….oh and 87. Remember these are not local companies providing this accommodation. They are large blue chip companies.
And don’t get me started on the more senior staff who had their own houses and excellent wages too….all provided by their employers, thus restricting the career progression for many a local resident…..and before you or anyone harps on about them maybe being more qualified, in most cases it simply was not true!
Jersey is specialised in Finance so please explain why they feel the need to recruit from outside or transfer from other jurisdictions where they inevitably have to learn offshore laws and regulations in order to do the job someone locally resident may already be qualified to do.
Report abuse
I could find many sources of this information with a simple google search. Here is a quote from a bbc news web-site:
“Jersey’s A Levels students have again outperformed their counterparts in England, Wales and Northern Island with nearly all teenagers opening their results today passing all their exams.
Amid the usual claims in national newspapers that exams are getting easier Jersey’s A Level students got a pass rate of 99.8%, compared to 96.9% in the UK.”
Yes but what these statistics fail to do is break the UK down into smaller geographical areas. If you lump down town slum London in with well to do Kensington and Chelsea then the UK average falls.
If you compare Jersey with middle class towns in the Uk then I think you will get a better comparison. You may find then, that Jersey’s exam results are nothing special.
Report abuse
Mr. G. Posenby-Jones 87.
Sorry but your incorrect to say this doesn’t happen – there are many variations on this theme. I know from first hand experience that non quals, non five years UK staff are working for one of the largest banks in the island while living rent free in houses – fact, luxury flats (Inn on the Park site for one), normal flats and bedsits – some of which cost many K per month picked up by the local business. All these people are on Jersey wages – fact, often renting out houses and accomidation in the UK. Some had been doing this for 10 years (though 5 years now seems to be the limit). If the JEP or States would investigate maybe they could report this ? Oh, and its not about skills – Jersey is a bit of a backwater to some of these people but the divsional line likes to have their guys in so ignore (or more likely don’t know/trust) local staff (including those with just 5 year +). These staff come over as they often can spin a nice promotion, bank a load of saved cash, miss a bit of CGT and live in a nice place – and good luck to them.
Report abuse
The people that work in shops,bars,restaurants, and hotels deserve some respect. These are the people that work hard to help us enjoy our leisure time.
I have worked in a hotel kitchen when I first started work, the wages were bad, the hours were bad and luckily I was still living at home. Leisure time seems to be very important to people in Jersey, so people should be paid better.
I’d hate to imagine where I would be living if I was still doing the same work.
The immigrants that do do these low paid jobs are probably better paid than they are back home and are no doubt sending money back home from where they came from. The majority of these imigrants are n’t going to stay in Jersey. They will get what they can out of the island and disappear, saving enough money to buy houses from where they came from, and I know people have done this in the past.
Where can a Jersey person go and earn more money than they can in Jersey and come back to the island again and buy a house. NOWHERE!!!!!
Report abuse
I wonder if the Social Security Minister is willing to lower his expectations!!!!??????
I really don’t think so
Report abuse
i heard that the guy said we should lower our expectations. i mean i’m a local boy not one of the immegrunts that come over from the europe. we were perfectly happy before everyone started leaving and moving around. can we all get back to a normal life and try to furgure out how we learn what we plan to do for the future being of everyone.
Report abuse
Adrian, I’m sure your encouragement is welcome, but remember your £9 minimum wage will not help create jobs.
Report abuse
BS Deluxe, it seems to me that your flailing career is the reason for your complaint here. Nothing you have said supports your argument, your argument is more of a moan about how people have come here and achieved more than you. You work in business, what planet are you from which decrees business is fair. Come on your a big boy. Look at your own affairs before aimlessly laying into others and making up facts.
Report abuse
P.S I worked for Lloyds and all of the workers who were brought over were paid UK wages, paid UK taxes, and were given a Rats cage to live in. Those that were given J cats had to pay J cat rent, it may have been subsidised but that was because they were in the upper tiers of the organisation. Those large chip companies you speak of put billions of cash through this Island, some of which you have probably spent this lunchtime on your lunch.
Report abuse
Mike I’m sure you would have said that when minimum wages were introduced but that didn’t have the negative impact many were predicting.
I myself believe the capitalistic system is bad on many levels. All it is doing is bringing out the worst in people with the resultant problems of alcoholism drug taking and crime as the majority people become more desperate to survive. Greed and the “I” mentality is taking over now an it is not good for society.
As I have said before there are two ways to look at this issue either raise wages to a living level or look at reducing import/export/travel costs to and from the island which are well above what they shold be. I prefer the import/export side of things as this would take away inflationary pressures on goods and wages. However the states for some reason won’t get a grip on ths inflationary area. Also rental costs should be capped at a respectable level to prevent the tax payer giving money to landlords as far as I am concerned. If landlords knew they didn’t have the states to make up the shortfall they would have to accept less.
As per £9 an hour this would encourage many more local people to do these jobs so the labour market would be increased for these jobs instead of importing people from further and further a field every year. Using immigration to fill jobs is doomed to failure long term mark my words.
The only people to really do well will be big business, property developers and property owners. The majority will be squeezed into smaller and smaller spaces as available land goes through the roof, and be expected to work harder and harder for less and less, with more and more taxes to pay. As a result of this I expect to see increased unrest and civil disobedience as people reach the end of their tethers.
You may view things differently and think all is hunky dorey as you have only been here since 1995.
The Dibel I am please you find my posts comical as most are about modern life now which is but a joke. Well done for noticing.
Report abuse
Some interesting insights into the local psyche above!
Ultimately, people need to face reality. If you are made redundant or find yourself in a lower paid job, you need to decrease your outgoings. Nowhere above has anyone mentioned this. The Jersey definition of poverty seems to be ‘I can’t afford everything I want’ rather than ‘I can’t afford to rent my flat, feed and clothe myself’.
Also, many who have been made redundant seem to believe that their misfortunes are caused entirely by external factors. However, anyone who is made redundant needs to ask, ‘Why me?’ In some cases, it is bad luck. In more cases, it is due to correctable factors such as a poor grasp of the technical aspects of the job, laziness, an inability to get on with others, etc. Everyone has weaknesses but sensible people work to overcome them. The less sensible moan about how unfair the world is.
The debate about qualifications made me laugh since these are much overrated. It is much more important to be able to be able to do the job in practice. Relevant qualifications undoubtedly assist with this but they are only the start. You must also be practical, organised and able to get on with colleagues. Many people feel that because they have a degree and/or a postgrad qualification the world owes them a living. It doesn’t.
PS Mike – you’re wasting your time with Adrian. Contrary opinion, even backed up by facts, just bounces off.
Report abuse
#96 Richard. You make some good points.
I think some people mix up immigrants (of which I am one) with asylum seekers. Of the other immigrants I’ve met in Jersey so far all were either unemployed in their home country or were doing exactly what they do in Jersey but for less net income! It’s not doctors and lawyers now waiting tables.
There will be exceptions no doubt but I would be surprised if there were many. The reasons are probably simple also, if I went to Norway and knocked on doors for a job it would limit me to catering or construction, and without much Norwegian my career progression would be nil. I have a good job here because I didn’t more here until I had found a good job. Had I come and knocked on doors I would be waiting tables or doing office clerk work probably.
EVERYone deserves respect, and that respect works both ways. I am always friendly to waiters/shop assistants but so often what I get back is a completely miserable face or someone that doesn’t even make eye contact with me or say please and thank you. This is just poor service, plain and simple, no excuses. On the other hand recently I saw a very friendly shop assistant whose customer just walked straight ahead, completely avoiding eye contact and gave his replies with his back turned. I could happily have punched him. There is just no need to behave like this.
People need to stop underestimating how much easier a day can pass with some simple pleasantries.
I understand the general public dissatisfaction though, service in supermarkets is poor in Jersey, staff are far less friendly than I have ever experienced outwith London. And there seems to be no concern about chatting away quite the thing to a colleague while serving a customer, which is just rude! All credit to Safeway, the few times I’ve been there the staff have been fantastic.
And before anyone uses the people’s job conditions as an excuse for their miserable faces and poor service, no-one will promote you if you can’t even do the basics suitably. Regardless of you job you should do it to the best of your ability.
Report abuse
Michael, I’ve been made redundant twice in my life and in both cases the companies ceased trading entirely. One of them my voice could have potentially saved but for the arrogant boss who ‘knew better’ and completely disregarded my ideas, the former I was just starting out so couldn’t have done anything.
There will be many people, like me, in the current climate. This is a time when redundancy will, more than is usually the case, have nothing to do with the worker!
I also know people who have been redundant because they have morals and ethics and the companies they work for pushed those to such a degree that the person could no longer conform. I know people who have been pushed out and told all sorts of lies just to find out later that there was an ‘old boys’ club’ situation behind it. Never underestimate just how twisted and morally bankrupt business and people that work within it can be. Thankfully most workers will be perfectly respectable, normal people, but there are some major slimeballs in most companies.
I agree entirely about the further education comments though.
As regards the finance sector there was an interesting comment made on the news the other night. It was a man who honestly believes that the finance industry is breeding people who truly believe themselves to be superior to the rest of society, who honestly believe that the rest of society owes them a vote of gratitude. He was concerned in particular that such people honestly believe what they do is of more worth to society than nurses, teachers etc. I have to say, having spent time in Jersey and London this is the feeling that I get. I cannot understand how anyone can honestly think this way, I don’t get why a job would make you ‘superior’ to anyone. Jersey would do well to try and counteract this ‘breeding’ or the already vast social divide will simply increase.
Report abuse
1,2 err 3 in fact ALL.
Thank you for the entertainment, love reading the comments relating to local, non-local, immigrants, wages, living costs etc always brings out the best posters trying not to sound to racist as they spout the same old s**t and then comes the trying to sound “offended on behalf of other people groupies”.
Keep going, please!!
Report abuse
I’m a Jerseyman employed in finance and I find the comments made by Deputy Gorst astonishing. Not because of the content, but rather the fact that he thinks it is necessary to point this out. I have a secure job, but if I were made unemployed there is no way that I would turn down any job that came my way. I have bills to pay, I have a mortgage to pay, I have loans to pay off and many other outgoings. I know that I could probably fall back on my family without too much of a problem, but there is no way that I would ever do this unless it were the absolutely last possible option open to me. I always find the comments on this type of forum quite strange, especially those purporting to be from the more “Jersey” folk, as I have never come across anyone with this attitude. Sure there are some who wouldn’t do this type of job, but that’s the same with anywhere. If we’re perfectly honest about it, they know that they would do this type of job if it was their only option. This train of thought isn’t the “Jersey way”, it’s certainly not the natural Jerseyman’s way of thinking – rather it seems to be how people who don’t really like Jersey think that we think – it is an absolute load of cobblers and to be honest, it’s quite insulting.
Report abuse
Leah: As I say, in some cases it is bad luck. Clearly, if the company liquidates the fault lies squarely with the management and shareholders.
I would, however, point out that people have an amazing ability to kid themselves as to the reasons why they were made redundant, and it is very easy to apportion the blame incorrectly as a third party who is only hearing one side of the story. I agree that there are major slimeballs in most companies. However, these slimeballs include both management and workers.
Report abuse
#106, waow Reg, I scanned down to comment 20 and in all of that there were only 3 comments with one-liners that even made mention of nationality! There’s no benefit in being the boy that cried wolf so please get a dictionary. By assuming racism into everything you are actually BEING one of those ‘offended on behalf of other people groupies’.
The article (and many of the comments) are about ‘class divide’ if anything.
Report abuse
Okay Reg #106, I bothered to scan all the comments, such is my annoyance at some people’s constant abuse of the word ‘racism’.
There are 10 (and I was pushing the boundaries in accepting some of those) that show dislike towards other people on the basis of nationality. 4 made by non-locals directed at locals and 6 made by locals and directed at non-locals.
That’s 10 out of 106, and that was me trying REALLY hard to find racism in the comments. Even then it would actually be XENOphobia!
Some comments I included in the 10 may well be from people who actually don’t care what nationality someone is, but their wording just maybe hasn’t been the best.
Maybe one day you will be a victim of actual racism and then you may be less inclined to cry wolf. False claims simply make matters worse not better.
Report abuse
G Posenby-jones
My god you are ignorant. How have you deduced that I am moaning and my career is flailing from my comment???
Fortunately, I am doing quite well thank you because I left the sweat shop of retail banking (Barclays) and now work in Wealth Management where it is more of a level playing field for everyone….people tend to get rewarded on merit and there is more scopr for career progression.
I’m sure there are enough people in finance who know the truth about imported finance labour….and comment 95 backs my argument too.
You need a reality check mate.
Report abuse
Leah 105
This superiority complex is very common with the high earners in finance. Although I have to say that my current employers encourage a fair and respectful environment so in our Jersey offices this behaviour is seriously frowned upon and can result in a disciplinary. However, our London office are a law unto themselves (as was the London office of my previous employer).
They may earn a lot of money (more than they should for what they actually do), but their attitude is disgusting and bullish …. unfortunately in most cases we have to put up with it because “it’s London”.
Personally, I just laugh at these people because what goes around comes around
Report abuse
G Posenby-Jones
Please explain “your argument is more of a moan about how people have come here and achieved more than you”.
If living in subsidised accommodation and paying very cheap rent is an “achievement” in your eyes then you have very low ambition..
It obviously escaped you but the subject was “fairness”.
I was initially responding to another poster who was aimlessly (as you put it) blaming Jersey for having a quallie system where the difference in quality of accommodation and rent are apparent. Although the quallie system is wrong I pointed out these landlords are NOT all Jersey folk(and they are the ones exploiting non-quallies with rents) and that it is NOT all Jersey folk who benefit from having quallies either, hence my example of imported bank staff.
This is not fiction and you know it. You are probably one of the privileged few who are benefitting from the low rents and Jersey wages which would go some way to explaining your over-defensive comments.
Ironically, having re-read your comments, it would seem you may be the bitter one with a flailing career!
Report abuse
Thanks BS Deluxe, I don’t assume it’s ALL finance workers, but it’s definitely good to know for sure that it’s not.
Report abuse
112 BS Deluxe,
“What goes around comes around!” How true!
As is:
“Pride goes before a fall!”
From experience I would liken working in the City of London, and all other business and finance centers as like the old “Greasy Pole” contests at a Fair!
Only the pool is filled with something less edifying than water!
You are either a contestant or you join the herd to watch your particular favorite. When that person falls in the S— you probably laugh initially! I’m afraid it’s human nature otherwise “Slapstick comedy” would never have had a following!However it can happen to anybody no matter how competent or how grand they deem themselves to be.
We need to be much more understanding and respect for each other in good times and bad, and it is perhaps something of that Samaritan attitude that people feel is lacking as more and more people compete for a larger slice of a possibly shrinking cake!
More productive over fighting for crumbs is to channel all your energies and resources into baking a new cake! Much more difficult and a task that really sorts the “Sheep from the Goats!”Oops there I go again!
Report abuse
Deputy Gorst may well like to enquire of his fellow States Member, Deputy Mike Jackson, why it is necessary to undertake a survey by ‘mystery shoppers’ into the public’s thoughts on our bus service and the Airport bus by an out side company.
Surely this will be yet another costly exercise which could quite easily be undertaken by local unemployed people with a bit of common sense and people skills. But no, bring in outsiders. I would be more than happy to undertake such a job, am more than capable of engaging with the general public, and it riles when again locals desperate to work are overlooked.
Take the incinerator where it is deemed necessary to import non locals. Surely the work that they need to undertake is not so specialised that training cannot be given here to those willing to work on this job and learn new skills. No…the States will squander money hand over fist on unneccesary enquiries, schemes etc., and use outside resources to do so.
Question your fellow members first Mr Gorst and get them to change their way of thinking, firstly – is it necessary? and secondly – can it not be undertaken by locally placed sources.
Report abuse
REG 106
…opinion in good men is but knowledge in the making (Milton).
So rather than just simply passing judgement on the opinions of others, SHARE your “superior” opinion …and maybe with your “expert” help ALL those who bothered to share theirs will be enlightened.
Report abuse
jg(116)
makes you sick , when a job is out sourced,
how hard is it to ask someone to fill in a questionaire, this person was paid and accomodated somewhere at the tax payers expense.
anyway states offices must be full to the brim with reports and studies commissioned before now or are they just shreaded and binned?
Report abuse