Peer: CI self-government should not be guaranteed
Monday 10th August 2009, 2:58PM BST.
Lord William Wallace
SEVEN HUNDRED years ago William Wallace led the charge for Scottish freedom from England. And now a UK peer by the same name is trying to take Jersey’s away.
Lord William Wallace of Saltaire says that the UK needs to clamp down on CI autonomy – adding that full independence for the islands would be ‘horrifying’.
Lord Wallace – who is emphatically not the lead character in a Mel Gibson film and claims no descent from Scotland’s Braveheart hero – said that the centuries-old understanding that the UK would always respect the dependencies’ right to self-government was no longer appropriate.
‘You cannot say that a promise given 800 years ago in totally different circumstances fits in any part today,’ he said. ‘The situation with the Channel Islands is totally different from even 35 years ago because of financial globalisation. ‘
Asked during a visit to Guernsey about the prospect of fully independent Channel Islands, the Liberal peer said: ‘I would be horrified. Small jurisdictions that attract a huge amount of money are very difficult to govern without falling prey to corruption. There are several cases in the Caribbean where exactly that is happening. Guernsey and Jersey are both very small.’
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the Liberal peer said: ‘I would be horrified. Small jurisdictions that attract a huge amount of money are very difficult to govern without falling prey to corruption. There are several cases in the Caribbean where exactly that is happening. Guernsey and Jersey are both very small.’
Thank god corruption is non existand in England or even in the house of Lords itself!
No Wait….
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“Small jurisdictions that attract a huge amount of money are very difficult to govern without falling prey to corruption. There are several cases in the Caribbean where exactly that is happening. Guernsey and Jersey are both very small.”
Ergo the CI jurisdictions are corrupt then. Interesting, perhaps SSS is correct after all ….
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I think the real WW would have turned in his grave at his fellow Scots attempt of maintaining rule from London.
He says “I would be horrified. Small jurisdictions that attract a huge amount of money are very difficult to govern without falling prey to corruption.”
Hah! Anyone would think his government and financial sector are neither corrupt or attracting huge amounts of money! I think he needs to remove the word ‘small’ from that sentence.
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the empire has long gone, the map is no longer painted mainly pink,would independance be such a bad thing?
if our self governance is to be taken away , then i for one would welcome independance and anything good or bad that came with it.
any dependancy that has left the remanants of empire has mainly thrived.
horrifying for who?not us residents surely?
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This unelected nonentity’s grasp of the Crown Dependencies’ constitutional position is woeful – but what else would one expect from a minor member of a fringe minority party set to lose more than half its seats at the next election?
However, I did find “Lord” Wallace’s comment that small island governments are generally corrupt amusing. Perhaps not as corrupt as the political system in London, whereby a failed politician who has been rejected by the electorate on five separate occasions can enter Parliament anyway, thus allowing him not only to gorge himself on vast amounts of public money but also to pontificate endlessly on matters he barely understands.
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about time, well done Lord Wallace.
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Thank god the Liberal Democrats are unlikely to come to power.
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Can’t imagine why The Liberals never got into power while this guy was standing as their candidate??
Voter “We want lower taxes and more freedoms.”
Wallace “You can have them, we promise.”
Voter “You promise?”
Wallace “Yes we promise… for a little while, then maybe not.”
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If we can,t govern ourselves then the uk can,t govern it-self so i think they should be governed by europe. Oh look they already are.
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I think he could have a point, the funds which go untaxed should be brought under the control of the UK Inland Revenue, lets face it Jersey gets away with murder. I’m not sure which county I want to be part of. I like Hampshire personally and at last we will be able to support England instead of Rozel Rovers.
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He has a fairly valid point though, Crown Dependancy status does not mean the freedom to corrupt and distort the financial world, Jersey either tows the line and accepts the need to be responsible and equitable or else it must REALLY stand on its own two feet.
This means:-
Acceptance of full passport and border control, acceptance of the obligation to perform its own self defence, acceptance of a refusal by the UK to pay benefits employment housing and social security to disenchanted natural born citizens and acceptance of the same hardships borne by every other country.
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The exact constitutional position between Jersey and the rest of the United Kingdom is moot.
The island’s laws are limited by the UK’s legal position to a certain extent but it is hard to define.
The island may not be able to pass laws that would breach UK or European law.
For instance I doubt Jersey could introduce a law that reintroduced birching or the death penalty for murder.
At the end of the day Jersey is a Crown Dependency and hence its status is decided by the Crown.
The powers of the Crown are vested in the House of Commons as the supreme law making body in the realm so if they want to change things I think they can.
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This man clearly hasn’t heard of the international law right to self determination.
Does he realise that the era of the british colonialism ended quite some time ago?
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It is worrying that some UK politicians, such as Lord Wallace of Saltaire, have so little grasp of the automony of the Channel Islands, whom are British through and through, but manage their own affairs through a system of government that has been in place since 1204.His suggestion that independence would be “horrifying” belies the feeling of many islanders, whom have seen the swift erosion of reciperocal health agreements and unfair university fees for those, whom are loyal British subjects of the Crown,and have also contributed much to the UK economy in attracting foreign investment, which has bolstered the pound over many years to the tune of billions in foreign exchange and yet we are now being compared with some jurisdictions in the Caribbean.
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Sorry Richard (14) the Channel Islands are Norman through and through, hence 1204 and all that. What the residents of the British Iles seem to forget is that it was us Normans, with our Breton (British Celts) who subjugate the Saxons and their crew in 1066. Maybe it is you who should worry that you ‘have so little grasp of the of the autonomy of the Channel Islands’.
Our system of government doesn’t come from 1204 and John Lackland (King John to you), but our ancestors who first wintered on the Lower Seine in 851. Lord Wallace is correct, times do move on; it would be madness to suggest that we Normans should attempt to re-conquer what most people would now regard as (in chronological order); southern Italy (1006), Sicily (1060), England (1066), Tunisia (1118), northern Syria (1132).
Today the Channel Islands are populated by the peoples of Europe, be they immigrants of the first, second or third generation.
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What haughty and incohesive pontificating…..whilst his observation that small jurisdictions that attract a huge amount of money are difficult to govern without falling prey to corruption has merit and should serve as a warning to have our act together or attract international interference and criticism, he really should pass the port and butt out.
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What does one have to do to become a “Liberal peer”? Presumably the main qualification is to be rejected by the electorate so many times that you actually stop trying.
This man’s opinions have as much democractic legitimacy at those of the late and much lamented Screaming Lord Sutch.
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The House of Commons has, fortunately, nothing to do with the Island. The relationship exists through the Queen in Council.
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Great idea, let’s give up our own rule and become part of the UK/Europe. Goodbye Finance and repulsive rich people. The island would become peaceful and pleasant again, except for some boarded-up ghost town areas.
The non-locals would vanish to other places in search of work, and us genuine locals could all sponge off UK dole and EU handouts. Happy days!
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Mark (15) What planet are you living on? The Channel Islands may have been Norman some time ago, but the times change and that is simply a ludicrous suggestion. Mainland Normandy and the CIs are no longer formally conected in any noteworthy way to make us “Norman” and your constant assertions that we are somehow still bound by this practically stone age connection is just astounding. All the people I know from mainland Normandy consider themselves French through and through, not Norman, so why must Jersey consider ourselves part of something that doesn’t even consider it self part of it (if that makes any sense)
I was born and raised in Jersey and I do not speak very good French, let alone the Norman language, I have no idea what their culture is like and I care not for how close or far our relationship with them is. On the other hand, I am fluent in English, I watch British TV, I support the British teams in sport and I love fish and chips.. that doesn’t sound very Norman to me.
But on the actual subject of this news story. I think he has a very good point. Our unelected overlords are constantly boasting about Jerseys “unique system” and its “unique heritage” obviously believing that the word unique is synonymous with “good” when of course that is not true.
There is not a single cultural reason why we should be seperated by the mainland and the fact that we weren’t just absorbed into the realm in 1204 is just chance. It could have easily been the other way.
Jersey history often says that our system has come about from the King making consessions to the people of Jersey so that they maintained loyalty. By “people of Jersey” I think they actually mean the aristocracy of Jersey, I highly doubt that the man on the connex bus actually cared or benefited in any direct way from Jerseys position back then.
France administers all of its overseas territories as if they were a part of Metropolitan France, and personally I do not see why the UK doesn’t just do the same.
Jerseys legal system is more often copying the English system, and so our “uniqueness” is diminishing and, quite frankly, so what?
The Lord does seem to miss out the corruption large jurisdictions have too, but when we are guilty of the same thing we should not just throw out his suggestion and we should look for other factors to take into account.
As a republican, I think this notion of a “Crown” loyaly is incredibly archaic, and people should stop claiming we owe no allegiance to the UK gov. when they are the ones who exercise the Queens powers, and so by convention and practice, we are loyal the gov.
When you are given facts with an evaluative twist on them, you must not just accept it, you must look at the facts alone and make up your own mind, because more often then not you will find that the version of events we get given is not as bright and sunny as they want you to think.
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Quentin, I think you are confused. You say Wallace has a valid point but go on to say that Jersey must stand on its own two feet – Wallace is saying that the Islands can’t be left to do that.
I agree with you that if the Islands want independence, they will need to accept responsibility for a number of things currently supported by the UK. However, if they want full independence, the UK should not be able to prevent that.
In relation to your suggestion regarding the invlovment of HMRC in taxing funds held in Jersey, this has been a controversial issue for decades. The reality is that the UK policy makers are very aware of the vast sums of money that are invested into the UK through Jersey and the other offshore islands which is why their policies are limited to combatting identified abuses as opposed to blanket prevention as you suiggest. This is why the recommendations of HMRC are not always implemented across the board by UK govt.
It is not as straightforward as offshore islands “getting away with murder” as you put it; there is a vast amount of research and statistics available to prove the benefits of offshore as a legitimate incentive for investment onshore.
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This is a laugh, isn’t it?
An unelected peer from a party of very little political significance. And purporting to speak on behalf of a government that has, in practical and legal terms, only a marginal influence on the Island and which is, furthermore, presently under investigation for the expenses scandal, itself a form of corruption.
Go and have a pop at Australia! I think that any response from that seat of notional sovereignty would be somewhat less polite than the comments which appear here!
One thing which is often expressed is that the Liberal Democrats are the only party who can afford to speak their collective mind because they have not got a hope of getting in
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EU states are facing the worst economic crisis for 60 years, so the thought of “the rich” stashing their money in Jersey (to avoid paying tax) is playing on the minds of many politicians.
World leaders are desperately trying to rebuild a very wobbly “global” financial system and limit the greed that caused the current financial meltdown…so Tax havens have suddenly become “public enemy number one”…this is only the start!
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I think he’s referring to the Turks and Caicos Islands which, along with places like Bermuda and Cayman, most people in the UK would rather just not have anything to do with. They’re a liability.
I’m a bit more ambivalent about Jersey and Guernsey because they’re more culturally similar.
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I guess the UK is finally cottoning on to how ineptly the islands are being run!
I’m all for the current level of Government in Jersey and I believe it can continue to work, I just don’t believe that those currently in charge can make it work. As for total self-government, I’ve not seen enough to decide on that one yet, although I can categorically state that under the current rule it would be an utter disaster.
I’m sure the States members would love to lord it over a fully self-governed island which leads me to wonder why they aren’t trying to prove themselves capable of such a task?
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One instinctively knows that the journalistic “silly season” is upon us when non-stories such as this are given space that it does not deserve.
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Well said ‘sorry for the essay’, I agree with much of what you say.
I’d also like to add that this island has shown its total capability to properly govern itself. The quality of politicians is constantly derided on this and other sites and not surprisingly, how can a population of less than 100,000 produce 50 or so able and competent representatives – of course it can’t. Let us be part of a more intelligent governing body, albeit with all its faults, rather than being governed by a small ruling incompetent elite who protect their own interest at all costs and to the detriment of the majority.
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Leah, if Jersey was fully self-governed and completely independent of the UK, the finance industry there would collapse overnight.
No recourse to the UK Courts any more. Or the EU ones for that matter.
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What finance that crashed with the world economy,Things are changing fast,GLASGOW ,Scotlands largest city has built a massive finacial area the size of st helier and has more clout than edinburgh,so maybe independence in full for the channel isles wouldnt be such a bad thing,iT WAS A SCOT WHO STARTED THE BANKING SYSTEM,blame him
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Ben,
There is no recourse to the UK courts at the moment. You can appeal from the Royal Court to the Court of Appeal and then to the Privy Council. But Jersey’s courts have a stellar reputation worldwide, particularly in the realm of trusts jurisprudence, and there would be no trouble appointing leading QCs to sit on an appellate court.
On this and other threads people occasionally comment about joining the EU. There is only one reason why Jersey is not now in the EU: if we joined we would have to give every EU citizen the right to live in Jersey. There is no opt-out on the free movement of people and the right to settle.
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Mad foetus,very interesting post,would you agree we need to reform our Government so that it matches the courts reputation internationally,so that not only are we then governed well and democratically,but that we are also seen to be .after all this COM is an unmitigated balls up.that continues to attract ridicule and credibility failure.
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Ben #28, Mad Foetus is right.
Nor do I think the finance industry in Jersey would collapse. As William Wallace suggests, those in power would simply be too tempted and would fall prey to corruption. It wouldn’t be the finance industry that you know today (heavily regulated) but there’s no reason why there wouldn’t still be a finance industry here.
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Independence would initially mean uncertainty, which the finance industry hates.
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I don’t think the COM does damage our international reputation, though it clearly has weaknesses. When you look at the Turks & Caicos and Bermuda you see what bad governance is.
Despite Syvret’s pontification, I don’t think any sane person believes any States member is actually corrupt (which has been the case in some Caribbean jurisdictions). The worst that could be said (and I think this applies to virtually every States member for decades, Jerry Dorey being the last obvious exception) is that none of them appear capable of exercising independent thought: they all seem to have swallowed a rather simplistic idealogy (from Ozouf’s free-market Thatcherism to Southern’s old school socialism) without ever considering how it could be modified to work in Jersey.
But although we should obviously reduce the number of States members and ban people who lose at the Senators elections from standing as Deputies the month after, I’m not sure what can really be done to improve the system. But for those who criticise it, believe me – the finance industry in Jersey is globally respected for its probity and professionalism, and the legal system is respected worldwide – we really do punch above our weight.
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I think that Lord Wallace is right.
Small islands are too small and hold no security for people banking on them.
Look at the dreadfu fiasco of kaupthing Singer and Friedlander and the distress and devastation it has caused amongst innocent depositors
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Bellyup,
The point you make about Kaupthing merits exploration. The Isle of Man and Guernsey have both historically encouraged smaller banks and building societies. These offer higher rates of interest than bigger banks. Have you ever considered why that is? The answer is simple – because they have a degree of risk that other banks do not.
If you look at the JEP, you can see Guernsey banks advertising rates of interest that are “market leading”. These banks would not be allowed in Jersey as they do not meet the JFSC’s “Top 500″ criteria.
But when you talk of “innocent depositors”, bear in mind that what you means are people who have placed their money in a small bank, which is not a household name, usually in a jurisdiction where they do not live.
Jersey doesn’t go after that business, which is why you don’t see Jersey banks adevrtising as aggressively: Jersey has always aimed for the wealthy, knowledgeable investor who wants a high quality, tailored service rather than simply an extra 0.1% interest.
But the lesson with banking, as with any other transaction, is that you should not hand over large sums of money to anyone, especially if they are offering a deal that seems too good to be true, without checking it out. There is a fine line between innocence and wilful ignorance of the blindingly obvious.
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Perhaps MF, perhaps. But what Dave 33 said. Read up on what happened to the Bahamas when they declared independence. A fairly thriving finance industry at the time just withered.
The joke in Cayman (which is where everyone then decamped to) was that they should put up a statue to the then leader of the Bahamas in one of the main squares.
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Sorry for the essay (20). I much appreciated your little essay, thank you. I reassure you that I am firmly entrenched on planet earth, on a small island called Jersey, my ancestral home of the past millennia,
My tongue was firmly lodged in my cheek; my target was a sidelong swipe at those individuals who. become precious about 1204 and poor old King John. I suspect that in open debate we would differ little.
My string in the tail was ‘Today the Channel Islands are populated by the peoples of Europe, be they immigrants of the first, second or third generation.’ Our liberal immigration policies of the past 50 years has ensured that Jersey has a polyglot culture. We are English speaking Europeans in all but name.
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The offshore financial centres played a key role in this latest financial bubble that has caused over $7 trillion of losses in the industrialised countries. By facilitating all the securitisations and off balance sheet structures, it encouraged the collapse in lending standards of the “originate and distribute model”. The likes of the IMF didn’t even bother to review this when they did their analysis for the white list etc. The JFSC certainly didn’t curb it. If this Liberal peer is saying that this type of activity needs to be curbed by the implementation of cross border rules then I think that is utterly sensible. Our offshore professionals don’t see the whole picture or appreciate the damage they have contributed to. Why should they when the fees were coming in!
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Lord William Wallace should with the rest of the ‘Westminster Gang’ sort out the mess that they have made of our Country before poking his nose into Jersey,s affairs.
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Punitive university fees for Channel islanders, whom are yet part of the UK educational system and the ending of the reciprocal health arrangement,also entrenched in the UK NHS, seem to have been lost in a thread, which fails to comprehend that Jersey and its British subjects have been further marginalized because they have lower tax and attract foreign funds, which have bolstered sterling over many years.The uninformed comments by such as by Lord Wallace need a robust and united response, the start of which has been forthcoming in today’s excellent JEP editorial.
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I’ll stick to my view. You can have self determination in Jersey and become independent (no problem with that) or you can become part of the UK once and for all. University fees / NHS issues just go away.
What you can’t do forever is have your cake and eat it too.
That is the view of many over here in the UK.
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Strange Ben, I grew up in the UK and was there for decades, no-one gave a hoot what Jersey did. Not in a negative way, it’s just that Jersey was (well from Glasgow) 450+ miles away with its own government. I don’t even recall anyone every giving Jersey a mention until I moved there and then obviously my friends and family started showing an interest in Jersey.
The UK has a history of not managing to effectively run islands. It cannot even run islands already within the UK. It is too big a Government covering too big and far too varying geographical regions, it destroys island life by trying to apply a ‘one-size fits all’ system of law. The health and safety brigade and litigious society have removed many leisure pursuits from the islands that had been in existence, without anything going wrong, for decades.
Jersey is even further away than some of the islands the UK is already not managing. What works in London is not necessarily suitable for the rest of the UK but since Government members aim to ‘retire’ from Government to top jobs in London, THIS is who they try to keep happy. Jersey is bigger than some of the other UK islands but I still wouldn’t trust the UK to take full control of it.
That’s just my opinion and, like most things, you can’t really know till you’ve tried it, but I’m not sure I would take the risk.
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Not sure I fully understand all of your points Leah, but The Isle of Wight seems to run fine.
I don’t think Jersey or Guernsey would be any different. I just think its funny when people on here get all defensive and start talking about noble Norman heritage and ancient dates.
As the chap in the article said, that’s not the reality today.
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Right! Here Goes! Stand Back!I’m Fuelled up and ready to go knock six bells out of the bunch of locally resident Republican whingers who have come out in support of this coniving little s—!
Lord William Wallace!Baron! The only thing “Baron” about this individual is his integrity of which he has NONE. I have no information on this persons credentials for the dizzy heights to which he appears to have been “over-promoted” (A sympton of characters on both sides of the political argument in the UK at the present time, and sadly possibly true of some here in the States of Jersey!)
The only thing that worries me is that a statue of this man is going to appear alongside the one of Mel Gibson in the Scottish town that was the birthplace of the real William Wallace, who must be spinning in his grave at the way his memory has been “Cashed in on”.
Let’s get to it:-
1)Republicanism: What those who attack our Monarchy fail to remind people is that the UK tried Republicanism many years before any of the countries now glorifying this system of government(e.g. U.S.A. and France), when after a bloody Civil War, Oliver Cromwell appointed himself Lord Protector and chopped off Charles I’s head rather publicly!Fortunately Cromwell (And subsequently and less well remembered, his son)were men of integrity when it finally came to it (And before the Irish have ago, he himself did admit in dealing with Ireland he suffered a “madness” that he regretted)and both turned down the Crown when it was offered to them on a plate.
What emerged from that bloody period of UK history was the restoration of the monarchy under Charles 11 with a reduced royal status and a very different system of Government than had prevailed before, which had put far too much power in the hands of an un-elected monarch (Or read: one individual)!
The whole idea of having a Head of State (Currently HM The Queen in case any have forgotten)without executive power or political clout is to stop anyone else usurping that authority “Legally”. There is nothing to stop a revolution or armed insurrection from removing her (Witness Charles 1)but no one can by such means legitimately (Legally) claim the the office of Head of State.
Therefore there is in theory nothing to be gained from making such a move in terms of political power and everything to loose in terms of personal status should someone try.
The Republican version of this is a system which replaces this figurehead with an elected executive Head of State who is “Politically active” (Now let me think: Why did we chop off Charles 1′st head? Oh yes because he was politically active!)
Whilst O. Cromwell & Son turned out to be true Republicans with some integrity (i.e. they would not take the title of “King”) let’s consider other Republican Heads of State:-
The list is endless of “Men of Integrity?” who have risen to these dizzy heights in their respective countries and then the whole thing has gone to their head (Or in the case of President Marcos in the Phillipines his wife’s feet!)so do I really have to name the whole despotic lot,past and current?
Most have come to a sticky end much like Charles 1!And at the cost of many innocent lives!
2)The republican argument goes on that a President is a cheaper option!
Well let’s see, the US president rides about the world in possibly the most expensive aircraft ever built, with an entourage which on it’s own could possibly invade a small country (And quite possibly a big one!) on it’s own! All paid for by the American tax payer.
Our own Monarch used to have a “Yacht” that was the envy of practically every other empowered Head of State in the World (Many built bigger and more modern versions as a result,) which culminated it’s 40 year career by upstaging not only the US sixth Fleet at anchor off Portsmouth, and the French Head of State’s welcome ceremony in France during the 50th D day Anniversary celebrations, but also the mighty Chinese Communist regime when we handed back Hong Kong! (Hands up anyone who remembers any of the press coverage of that event other than the Royal Yacht Britannia silhouetted against the lit up HK waterfront sailing out of HK Harbour with Chris Patten waving goodbye with a hanky at the stern rail).
Hardly surprising then that the current French President forgot to invite HRH to the 65th D-Day celebrations then!
Although following cutbacks due to the attack on her much used resources by “Back door republican fifth columnists” in the last few years, it would have been difficult for her to have upstaged even one of the local French town mayors with anything material like God forbid her Bentley, or horror of horrors a forty year old yacht!
What a great asset it is then that Her Royal Highness’ mere presence is enough to upstage even the most “Pompous” Head of State.
A fact fully appreciated by Mr Sarkosy and the French, if not the gormless lot at Westminster, who are mostly all examples of educational brainwashing that comes about through too much State interference in education!
The Monarchy before we started listening to “The Accountants” enabled us to punch well above our weight on the World stage well after our actual political (Read financial) influence had waned in comparison to much larger and better resourced countries.
It (The Monarchy) was and still is a huge money spinner, and so are some of our quainter ceremonies of Government. How many people know that the Lord Chancellor sits on a Wool-sack wearing tights and a silly wig because whilst it appeared the monarch was being kind providing a comfy perch (Cool in summer, warm in winter) it was in it’s day probably so infested that the LC incumbent was guaranteed not to go to sleep during proceedings! neither, like the Garter Knights could he get too pompous wearing that ridiculous outfit! (Oh to see Jack Straw wearing it, a thing he managed to avoid by not being Lord Chancellor in name but by creating a parallel political office and a new Supreme Court!”)
What next President Tarbuck or worse, Blair?
Shame then that all that ceremony is for the chop along with other little oddities such as the hereditary peers, all of whom, even the batty one’s, brought something of the general public to the system of government, at a reasonable price (£90 per day) compared to the Quango experts who have to be employed now, and how much is this new Supreme Court going to cost to run? (More Lawyers). Most of all, the hereditary peers, some as poor as church mice, some as rich as Croesus, all had a vested interest in the work of the countries highest Court that in most cases went beyond mere money.
Not so today with the likes of Baron Wallace!
As for the Channel Islands, loyalty and or independence is for the electorate here to decide and certainly not for this unelected, unrepresentative opportunist to pontificate on in the Press or even at some over important private fringe meeting in Guernsey! (It was from Jersey that Charles 11 set out on his return to the UK Throne, hence “Bonne Nuit Bay”, something they on the other Island have “cashed in on” despite historically having been predominantly Parliamentarian in Cromwell’s time)
And the Norman’s? well the North and the West of France have always been closer to the UK than the Eastern half of France, and over the course of history ownership and loyalty in these regions have gone both ways.What is important is that when mainland Normandy returned to the French fold these Islands were all that remained of William “The B——-”‘s lands that stayed loyal to the UK Crown. Opportunism? maybe, but as France has only existed in it’s present geographical form since Napoleon 111 (i.e.A couple of centuries)perhaps claiming we are all French anyway simply on geographical siting alone is a bit rich!
So “Bog off” William Wallace or whatever your real name is? we all know that you are merely the agent (Witting or Unwitting) of fifth columnists,whose vested interests involve trashing our and UK history and removing traditional practices that give individual nations their identity and place in the world order of things, all in a constant drive towards some completely unspecified “Eldorado”.
The damage you and your sort do is immense!
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Jersey boasts one of the world’s highest average incomes, yet ignores the fact that it also has one of the world’s highest living costs.
One in four islanders depend on state help, and 45 per cent of Jersey single pensioners and 64 per cent of single mothers and their children live in relative poverty!
So Jersey’s leaders had better start thinking a little more about the less-privileged inhabitants…otherwise, a large number of “Jersey folk” might be happy to let the British government do it for them!
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Nick, I now realise that “Bonny” Prince Charlie must have been a corruption of “Bonne Nuit”.
Proof that I managed to take in at least part of your marathon essay.
I can’t really speak for other readers but I do like to read comments where I can remember how they began by the time I get to the end!
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Born Warrior:Your view of our local politicians (Whose main failing incidently is that they always seem to have to consult “Experts from the Mainland?”at added expence before doing any capital project or bringing in any new system) may or may not be correct, but the net effect is that Jersey (Without a natural asset like North Sea oil) is right up there in GNP(Earnings)per head with Norway (A country of circa 4mn people with massive offshore oil earnings and reserves) and Kuwait(A similar middle east oil producing State with about 500,000 actual nationals).
And the best threat you can think of is to bring in that lot at Westminster, who have just demonstrated to the whole World at large that they can cock up just about anything given half a chance? Give us a break!
I don’t see the Isle of Wight in the IMF statistics at this level,why not? (You answer that question)
I do agree with you that there is a lot that could be done to reduce living costs, maybe more States support for our dwindling farming community(Even if it isn’t competitive with larger industries in UK and on the Continent)
And how about securing our lines of communication so that Islanders are not held to ransom on ferry and airfares? (Several opportunities have been missed in the past, e.g.The Island(s)have had the opportunity since 1980 to purchase both Southampton Airport and the Albert Johnson Dock at Portsmouth, and I daresay several other mainland landfalls that would have given us control over a number of issues such as dock charges etc.All of which have a bearing on the cost of fares and goods here on the Island)
Oh and just who is it who get’s that 17.5% VAT that doesn’t always get deducted from prices here in the Island?That is a question that is never answered!
Oh and Jersey does have one natural asset it shares with our fellow Channel Islands, it is , and it always will be, it’s geographical location!
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Ben, I hate to say it but the Isle of Wight is barely a stone’s throw from the mainland, much as it seems a very simple response it may indeed be why they are run well. There are a whole heap of islands that are a minimum 2 hours travel time out from the mainland (and at least 8 hours travel time from London) that could be easy to run but for applying the laws of big cities to islands with low populations.
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A couple of rants there Nick! My point was fairly straightforward.
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Wow !! NICK.
Please can I join your gang
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Nick 48 re: 46
My comment has nothing to do with
“who-is-as-rich-or-richer-than-who”, it refers to the financial gap between the “Haves” and “Have-nots” in Jersey…and there are a lot of “Have-nots” amongst the locals.
And when people have “NOTHING” then they have nothing to lose by change…something Jersey’s politicians should and must consider.
Other than that, I have little else against CI autonomy, as long as home rule translates into honesty and fairness.
Sorry, I don’t quite grasp your coupling of Norway and Kuwait as they are antipodes with regard to the distribution of wealth (which is what I was talking about).
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Hi Nick good to see you agree with me on import/export costs.
As per the Monarchy many of its traditions are not old at all but made up. Charles’ investiture being a good example.
Indeed is the Monarchy even British? The German influence has been very large in the last two centuries or so. So much so that it must have been a surprise for the Germans when in 1914 the British declared war on them!
It has been suggested that the Queen isn’t the proper heir to the crown – it is some Ozzie bloke.
You are correct with reference to Cromwell he had principles and could easily have set up his own dynasty, but he was a man of the people, for the people, and not into class structures like we still have in Britain today. Indeed we still have his Commonwealth today! Funnily enough the Commonwealth was set under Cromwell but taken over by the Monarchy later on. He must have got something right mustn’t he?
I myself don’t believe in class structure and all that goes with it. It belongs in the past. I believe all people are equal no one is better than anyone else due to breeding or socio-economic class. You should look at the 2 Ronnies and John Cleese sketch about class structure in Britain it is very apt.
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I don’t think any UK politician is in a position to comment on the governance of the Channel Islands.
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CP 54
This attack on Jersey has nothing at all to do with sovereignty, it’s all about money!
It’s no secret that tax havens facilitate massive tax evasion and that Britain alone loses over £18 billion a year in unpaid taxes.
Britain needs the “cash”…it’s as easy as that!
And the British government will eventually get it, even if it means putting an end to an age-old agreement.
Having said that, it doesn’t mean I agree but only that I can see “change is coming”.
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