States spending could double GST, warns Chamber
Tuesday 1st September 2009, 2:59PM BST.
Kevin Keen
GST could double by 2012 if the States do not get a tighter grip on spending, according to former Chamber of Commerce president Kevin Keen.
In the latest edition of the Chamber of Commerce newsletter, Mr Keen writes that Islanders and States Members should get behind Treasury Minister Philip Ozouf’s efforts to squeeze public-sector spending.
Recently published annual reports by the States in Jersey and Guernsey showed that the government in Jersey spent £5,700 per Island resident each year, compared to £4,800 per person in Guernsey.
Mr Keen writes that States spending has gone up by 88% over ten years, way ahead of the 46% increase in inflation over the same period.
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I think most people would like GST scrapped as there are more appropriate ways to ‘steal’ money back from island residents and visiters. I’m sure some expected GST to increase gradually from 2012 but certainly not double. Just shows how incompetant this government really are.
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And while the public has no say in the number of states members and their hired help they will carry on wasting money because they don’t give a damm
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So GST could double if the island’s “government” does not get a grip on its spending habits?
That’s exactly what taxation is designed for: to fund government expenditure and to provide the services the populace requires.
Nurse, doctors, teachers, policemen, fire fighters etc do not grow in greenhouses, you know.
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With the greatest of respect Kevin, i think it’s a case of GST will go up, for no other reason than the States do what they want when they want!!!
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GST could double NO DOUBT ABOUT IT only the time scale is undecided. I expect 10-15% before too long as food shortages, water issues, climatic and environmental issues and the aging demographic time bomb amongst others rear their heads from the abyss.
Governments around the world have been too slack on these issues and they will come back to hunt future generations even possibly this one. I believe the best anyone can hope for now is to have had their life and be pushing up daises before cataclysmic disasters start hitting the planet one by one some time in the near future.
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how much more are you planning to rob from us..you are nothing but greedy constantly taking from us and giving us nothing back
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So, the States have squandered, wasted and mismanaged our money, then again they expect the very people who HAVE to budget, go without, and live within their limited means to bail them out because they do not seem to have the capacity to do the same.
I think NOT – this will not go down too well.
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It is very easy to spend someone’s else money…
Ministers are spending OUR money, not their own.
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Would still like a breakdown of what £ 5,700 per islander entails please? Being that my tax has paid this already, let alone my husbands… think we have a right to know..
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No surprise there then!! It was said by many that the second GST was in that it would double in no time and the states promised it wouldn’t!! And within less than a year this is whats happening!! They do talk a load of rubbish dont they!! It is inevitable that it will continue to rise due to the fact that we have absolute morans in charge of the island who have no handle on their spending and dont give a damn that it ISN’T THERE MONEY!!!! Do we not pay enough already what with tax and stamp and social etc!! Never mind doubling GST!! OUr outgoings to the states will soon be more than our own bloomin earnings!!! There needs to be a line drawn and we all need to stay enough is enough!!
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@ Vicki #9. I’ve just checked; your £5,700 was either the salary of one SoJ Police Constable to stand outside the gate at HdlG doing absolutely nothing for the month of March last year; OR it was the the holiday pay for the 2weeks a SoJ Chief Officer took off in July.
I’m sure knowing that will give you a nice warm feeling
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Time to oust the lot of them that agreed on gst.
it do,st affect that lot in any way as most of them are millionaires.
we need working-class politician in their place or nothing will ever change.
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This island is becoming a joke and is quickly burning to the ground. Doubling GST will put retailers out of business. Why would anyone even bother shopping locally, service and knowledge is aweful in a lot of shops, choice is so limited and the most important thing prices are extortionate. In some cases I have found that the price inc of vat and postage to the island from online retailers is still cheaper than the local price but the online retailer in 99% of the time removes the VAT and the item will be on my door step within 48 hours and there will be a wedge saved in my bank. People will say that is it risky shopping online but everything that can go wrong with a shop purchase can go wrong online so there is no difference in risk. Think Smart Buy Online…Save a packet.
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Not only that but the finance industry is stealing your pension. Bit by bit. All in their pockets.
Socially useless.
Absolutely.
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Stop participating….Just Stop everything…..
The only way anything will change is if we all just stop and do no comply.
Do this for one week.
Buy food at the start of the week once.
Stop watching news and TV.
Stop purchasing needless items and putting yourselves into more debt.
Stop driving for one week. Save on stress finding the parking space and fuel costs.
Just enjoy your family and friends.
Just one week could change a system that is killing us all.
Things need to change.
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Incredible but not surprising… the same people moaning on the ‘Average Salary’ HYS about the States simply taking the mean to establish the average persons salary are now using the mean spend in Jersey compared with Guernsey without out any further information (such as the fact Guernsey is more densely populated) to base their rant on!
The States may be guilty of using figures to their advantage but so it appears (and to no surprise) are all you whiners. Just goes to show the facts can’t get in the way of a good whinge and Jersey definitely punches above its weight in that department.
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10% eh, not far to go now to get parity with the UK’s 15% VAT.
Surely it couldn’t be the ultimate aim to get GST in line with VAT ??
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Stop the peaceful protests and start some serious action like the French do
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I agree with Mick 18.
Also, stop paying your taxes. They can’t arrest us all and if they did it would cost £51k a head in Hotel La Moye!!
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19 – BS Deluxe……..Love the comment!! Its true tho, we all talk and moan about it enough! We really should all stand up and do something about it!! We have the power to vote these idiots in and they abuse there positions so why not let there decisions back fire on them?? It sounds like a plan to me!!
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If this did become the case..the Government would do themselves serious damage…. having promised in order to justify and get GST passed it would remain at 3% so how can we admonish kids or anyone else when the so called pillars of society and those in power and responsibility….just blatantly lie and take the p*** out of the population…….thus rendering themselves invalid and unnecessary we would be better off as every man for himself…and yes a lack of accountability DOES lead to anarchy….so shape up and do something about it before we throw you out in the square…
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truthseeker #21.
“…having promised in order to justify and get GST passed it would remain at 3%… … and those in power and responsibility….just blatantly lie and take the p*** out of the population…”
truthseeker; another great post, shame it’s not based on actual facts though.
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The control of States spending is nearly impossible.
The Treasury raise money and the other departments spend it pretty much how they please.
The fact is that when we ‘had money coming out of our ears’, this was fine.
Extra scoops could be dished out as the pot was not empty at the year end, in fact there was some left overs to shove in the rainy day fund!
Jersey politicians and civil servants have developed a strange sense of superiority over other governments that had to budget hard or face funding deficits. They saw their position as being due to their own intelligence and skill and not a lucky accident of circumstances and a burgeoning finance industry.
Now they are going to be forced to learn the hard lessons of cost cutting and resource allocation and just maybe some of them are going to have to get off the gravy train and start to walk!
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gk(15)what about a general strike?
bs deluxe, most are taxed at source , cant withold what we never see.
the old clearer tax system we stood a chance.
mick do you know where we can get trays of rotting fish , tractors and trailers and lorries?
the only thing left is to withold labour.
people cannot be bothered to vote so untill things get a lot worse, nothing will happen.
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I think you are right David, a general strike would bring the island to its knees and get the desired change most are craving.
You could always get in the French farmers to plough up the roads and the French fishermen to blockade the ports as they aren’t scared of letting the government know when they have crossed the line (joke)
Unfortunately without French help it is but a dream as I think most over here are too soft to take a stand and are easily bamboozled by those in positions of authority to do as they are told.
It is for these reasons that those in authority know they can basically do very much as they wish and will therefore get away with raising GST.
The route of direct action I would advocate, is to vote out the numpties, as I see them, in the CoM and their supports from the States at the next elections. However, Jersey, at present, has too much appathy from those who are fed up with things as they are, to be bothered to vote and allied with the big business/finance/rich and their hangers on block vote it tends to maintain the status quo, as a right wing regime.
Until Jersey gets a more left of centre, people orientated government things are only going to get a lot worse, for the majority, in my honest opinion.
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Double? Of course it is going to more than double anyway. After all wouldn’t it be much easier to calculate if it were 10%?
GK has the right idea. You should all have done it on the day of introduction. Even kept it up for a whole week.
But that sort of action needs solidarity and you won’t get that in a community where the cost of living is not a problem for many people, especially the decision makers.
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OK guys go for industrial action if you think it will help but look to the past to see how successful rallies have been. People call for a mass protest in the Royal Square and less than 1% of the Islands population turn up!
If you surveyed every Islander no doubt the majority would complain about the government in one capacity or the other but that’s all it is – a moan. Ask the same people not to turn up to work or cause a mass protest and that number drops to >1% again. This means people are annoyed enough to moan (which is easy) but not that much they feel they need to do something about it. Face it guys, your day may come but your still the minority here.
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“Mr Keen writes that States spending has gone up by 88% over ten years, way ahead of the 46% increase in inflation over the same period.”
Can Mr Keen enlighten us as to what exactly the States have spent all this money on and also what their spending proposals are for the next year?
I would like to know, before being charged even more GST on top of the 20 means 20 tax squeeze which most of us are trying to cope with already.
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(28) jersey tax payer, most of the public posting on this site would ,more than likely,like to see a full breakdown of the books to see where our hard squandered cash went to.
fair play to mr keen for his informed information.
i know that kevin, knows what he is talking about, some may recall that he had offered his time ,in the past to the states to see where savings could be made(no fat fee here)
did they take him up on the matter?
let us know if you know.
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Guernsey hired consultants to see how services could be delivered more efficiently (i.e. reduce management). Jersey’s answer is to cut the services, leaving management cosily in its well-paid place. Maybe the two most derided words are “Guernsey” and “consultants”, but it rather show who runs the show in each Island, doen’t it?
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29. I believe they would not take Kevin up on it as they don’t want the truth out there….an allergic reaction to the truth is rife in Jersey people in power even take tablets for it……and have to go to the Capanina for R&R if exposed to it followed by a lie down and another bung or directorship till pacified.I thought you knew that…?
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I have raised this question many a time without response and it may seem ridiculous to some but why can’t we, the population, sue this government for squandering our tax money? What about a Class action?
Surely we CANNOT allow this dictatorship to continue to waste our money then ask for more!!!
This is a world where you daren’t look at another person for fear of upsetting them and where criminals can sue their victims, so why can’t we sue the government for incompetence and possibly even defrauding us???
Fraud – legal definition:
Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.
To constitute fraud, a misrepresentation or omission must also relate to an ‘existing fact’, not a promise to do something in the future, unless the person who made the promise did so without any present intent to perform it or with a positive intent not to perform it.
Does any of this sound familiar?
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does this increase in spending include the payrise they all voted to give each other after freezing the public sector payrises/bonuses???
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As a former resident of the Island now living in Australia, I can comment the voters in this country were aware of the politicians’ possible tricks regarding GST. When GST was introduced in this country at the rate of 10% in 2000, the rate could only be changed/altered by an Act of Parliament rather than using simple regulation by the Government of the day ! Guess what the GST rate has remained at 10% for the last 9 years ! Surprise. However other taxes have gone up. It just proves you can’t win.
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All the hysteria on this column fails to address Kevin Keen’s comments. He’s not saying GST is going up, he’s saying it would have to IF States spending is not curbed. His point is that spending should be reviewed and, where appropriate, reduced. Instead of the usual idiotic “let’s go on strike and harm the Island as much we can”, why not recognise that reviewing public spending is what you lot have constantly demaned.
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Farmer Geddon
You’re absolutely right, we have constantly demanded spending reviews, but guess what…….no one listens. And when they do, they spiel out some absurd nonsense about making savings elsewhere to paper over the cracks, so in my humble opinion it is not a case of IF GST will rise but WHEN.
You may have noticed the latest “essential” spending of taxpayers money with the red tarmac at Broad St. Then we have the “essential” make-over of the sea-front promenade being contemplated.
Whilst we are at it, who pays for the watering of all the plants in St Heliers flower baskets……usually just before/after it has rained. I kid you not, I’ve seen it happen!
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I think it is fair to point out that the sole States strategy for dealing with any problem is to throw money at it.
The projected deficits over the next few years are huge even under Phillip Ozouf’s business plan.
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farmer geddon(35) , how do you pepose the public get this goverment to sit up and take notice???
(29) truthseeker, you made me chuckle.
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I may not be an expert in all things financial, but i,m waiting for the states to lend Harcourt the money required to secure them as developers for the new development, its what our esteemed politicians are good at.
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mick it appears Harcourt hasve failed again to get the required deposit in time. How will Ozouf spin out of this latest conundrum? Extend the final deadline to a final-final deadline? I await with baited breathe the latest saga!
The obvious answer is to kick the development into touch but it wouldn’t surprise me if it goes ahead. Some people never learn as far as I am concerned. Maybe 17.5% GST is nearer than we think?
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“I may not be an expert in all things financial, but i,m waiting for the states to lend Harcourt the money required to secure them as developers for the new development, its what our esteemed politicians are good at.”
I think the States are going to agree to rent out a strategic block of the offices at the Esplanade Quarter.
Then the project can go ahead.
But if the project fails the island will be tied in to hundreds of millions of pounds of unsecured debt.
Are the J cats going to stick around and help pay it off or will they be off to pastures new?
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Perhaps we should be targeting our anger on those who do not vote, If we did not have such voter apathy we would have politicians with a mandate from the majority of islanders to do something.
At the moment 75% don’t seem to care what the states does.
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Pip – 41
Hey a fellow cynic….
I am sure that you are right. Freddie Cohen announced recently at a IOD lunch that he would like to see all states departments moved to one base in the esplanade quarter! There were a few mouths that almost hit the floor as this seemed at the time as though he was offering a lifeline to Harcourt but it didn’t really get picked up in the press.
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Farmer Geddon # 35 is absolutely right, many entries on this topic are a little crazy.
People are actually inciting others into public disobedience and this may damage the island’s reputation abroad.
What if all these threats bring about a reduction in the finacial business -that will mean the population suffer even more.
Why don’t you use the democratic process and tell the politicians, who aren’t doing what the majorty of you want them to do, that if they carry on the way they are, you’ll vote them out of office.
Maybe there should be a law that if politicians don’t do what they promised on the lead up to their election, they can be thrown out – unless there is a cogent reason why they aren’t fullfilling their promises.
Someone once said, “Politicians are like bananas. They come in green, turn yellow and are never straight.”
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PJG # 42. You are absolutely correct. When there is voter apathy the wrong people get into power. I believe in some countries it is an offence if you don’t vote, it is a bit draconian, but heck it might just spur people into getting of their buts and vote.
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Jersey, democratic! oh i cant stop myself laughing! pandering to the finance industry as the only form of income other than island taxes is the problem. If any of the States leaders had a brain they would realise that you cant do this in any shape or form, and were independant even worse no one to bail us out. If anything happens to make the finance industry go then jersey is left with NOTHING and i mean Nothing, Imagine the chief minister, finance minister and the rest of them leaving the island to live in the holiday homes they have when all goes wrong, a bit like frank walker and Dubai before the recession! taxing the public to the max to keep zero ten is madness, not to tax uk shops in jersey is madness. The big problem is there are many places people can go to to invest there money other than Jersey, they also dont solely rely on finance, many of them are key destinations for tourism, there also cheaper to live on than Jersey. The people that run the island need to realise that Jersey is a lovely island, ok its not safe to walk the streets anymore after dark, but its unique. it needs more than finance to keep our heads above water in this modern day and age.
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the reputation of this island is already damaged abroad.
no need to rake over coals to say how.
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ZBD Posted People are actually inciting others into public disobedience and this may damage the island’s reputation abroad.
Im opinion a few comments on here pale into insignificance compared to the actions of the CoM over the last three years.
What must the outside world be thinking?
As per voter apathy one way to combat it is to fine anyone who dosn’t vote like they do in Australia I believe. If the 70% who are disillusioned were to vote we would have a completely different States assembly I am sure. The big business/rich/finance block vote would then be a miority vote.
As per the finance quarter it should be abandoned but I believe it will go ahead and that there will be big problems with the States either, bailing out the developer, or having to move all States offices into it to help fill it once it is finally finished or if we are even more unlucky both!
As per the COM I have no confidece in them whatsoever however once Ozouf gets the top job I think things will go from bad to worse. We can then expect GST to rise in proportion to cover all the problems as they arise in my opinion.
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They will need to raise GST to cover the pensions of the Public Sector – the same people who are threatening to strike because of a pay freeze
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Adrian #48
Surely forcing people to vote defeats of the object of freedom and democracy in the first place?
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