35 jobs could go at HSBC
Thursday 3rd September 2009, 3:01PM BST.
ONE of Jersey’s biggest banks today announced that up to 35 jobs could go in the Island.
In a statement released shortly before 11 am, HSBC said that 86 employees ‘may leave the organisation in its Jersey, Isle of Man and other overseas operations’.
It added: ‘Specifically, 35 employees in Jersey will be affected.’
• Full report in tomorrow’s Jersey Evening Post
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This in addition to the entire marketing team that were made redundant earlier this summer. Good idea HSBC redundancy in segments – no one will notice, didn’t you used to be called the listening bank?
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This story was so predictable, given the current state of the world economy.
The affected employees knew the score: banks all over the world have failed in the last two years.
Just a few less people will have money to extend their houses and to install Jacuzzis or swimming pools.
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Can we assume that the locals will keep there jobs and non locals go back to where they came from to help us cope with the overpopulation and unemployment problems?
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Its not surprising that the Hongkong and Shanghi Bank is thinking of laying off staff. Online banking is taking off now and the bank won’t pay staff to do less work than before. Also the economic downturn hasn’t filtered through properly over here yet.
So the possiblity of another 35 unemployed over here to add to the growing list…
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Annie Du Feu
Can we assume that the locals will keep there jobs and non locals go back to where they came from to help us cope with the overpopulation and unemployment problems?
I think NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Annie, thou it would be nice.
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Comment 2 Magnolia Man “Just a few less people will have money to extend their houses and to install Jacuzzis or swimming pools”
And feed and clothe their kids, pay their rents/mortgages, pay their gas/electric bills.
It may surprise you to find that the majority of people in finance are on below average wage, most are on around 20K, less than a tradesman.I got a 5K payrise when I left a supervisory position in a bank and went to work as a decorator.
Annie comment 3 “Can we assume that the locals will keep there jobs and non locals go back to where they came from to help us cope with the overpopulation and unemployment problems?”
I wish we could, ironically these are the people whose jobs are the safest, the banks have invested significant sums in re patriotating them to Jersey, sourcing accommodation ( nominal rent or free ) for them and it will be the likes of you and me who are let go first, poor Mr & Mrs average struggling to make a crust.
Of course it would help if their tenure were temporary, say 3 years during which they trained a local to do their job but as you know locals cannot be trained. When will Housing insist on a dedicated succession policy whereby local replacements are trained within a pre designated timeframe.
Rant over.
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No 3 – I hope you and your arrogant family never leave Jersey to work elsewhere. The world is open to all. Are the Jersey people prepared to do the work the locals do ie work in the fields and serve them in the shops. What a selfish lot you are.
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Annie Du Feu; It should of been “their jobs”
I see you are happy to take jobs in a foreign company whilst times are good. As soon as they aren’t you’d be quite happy to kick them off the island. Talk of biting the hand that feeds you.
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Annie Du Feu 3
HSBC isn’t local, so why should it keep the locals on?
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Annie DU FEU and Farmer Trev – I can understand some form of self protection/defensive attitude as it is only human to have these feelings to some extent…………………but to put it in print when your Island was built and supported by foreign businesses and work force, is quiet frankly………..STUPID!!!!
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Annie Du Feu #3
I fail to understand what you mean, surely if people are living and working here, paying their social and taxes they are locals ?
Or are you making a racist statement that unless one is born in jersey one is second class ?
If so shame on you.
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Annie du feu!
Another example of Jersey rascisim & narrow minded
“keep it local” attitude.
For your information HSBC is a multi national giant that employs international staff from all over the world “yes” even here in little Jersey.
The top people are largely English,but there are Polish managers and people of various skin colours
employed in high positions.
I hope your not feeling to “unwell” at this news
strangely theres not a lot of Jersey people in one particular large branch, however if they follow your attitude by example thats hardly suprising.
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Annie, Why keep the locals on? Usually locals are not qualified, and nto professionals. Us imported one’s, who have made Jersey our home with J-cat’s are, and accordingly we keep our jobs.
It is abotu time Jersey stop thinking they have a right over others, then they actually may find they keep their jobs.
Doubt it – and besides, I hoep they don’t stop thinking that way, it is what keeps me employed. Those who think they should have preferential treatment.
Remmber Germany int he 1930′s… kicking up a similar fuss.
Aussie
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No 13 quite right, a lot of the “locals” over here have less professional qualifications than imported staff doing the same roles. One of our biggest administrators has a local head of client accounting who failed all his accountancy exams. But when that firm advertises for staff at a much lower level, I bet they insist on qualified accountants in that division. Similar with lots of other firms I expect over here.
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Heh. Well that one certainly set the cat amongst the pigeons didn’t it Annie Du Feu? I think its safe to say your views are in the minority.
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I’m born & bred Jersey, but don’t share #3 Annie’s point of view. Sadly, there’s far too many people like her on the island. The quallies system breeds xenophobic bigots. HSBC are an International bank, not a local one, so they obviously won’t be just sacking outsiders. Besides, usually locals are less talented anyway, due to sharing Annie’s belief that birthright owes them a living
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The CEO is being quoted as being regretful – good to see a Senior Manager taking responsibility rather than just blaming it on the credit crunch.
What’s the betting Mr Spurling refuses to take either a bonus or salary increase this/next year.
Good on you mate.
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Annie Du Feu appears to be coming in for quite a lot of criticism here, not wishing to provide a defence for her ( I’m quite sure she is capable of doing that herself )
Annie does not make a clear distinction on what she considers locals to be, the assumption is that she means Jersey born, she may well mean J Cats and non quals finance workers on offshore assignment contracts or even vermin like me who have earned their quals after 20 years.
Lets assume the latter which would include me, this stance is no worse than that recently taken by UK workers at the South Killingholme refinery plant when foreign workers were brought in over locals.
There was uproar and half the refinery workers in the country went on strike. HSBC may well not be a local employer but they employ locally, when local staff see preferential treatment given to people brought in from the UK ( free accommadation, utilities, rates, subsidised nursery care ) it’s not surprising that they close ranks, just as their UK counterparts have done.
Think twice – knock a local ( while there’s still any left )
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Although I do not condone Annie or farmer Trev’s comments, I am frankly sick to death of local bashing by non-locals.
Perhaps it is your attitudes and “racism” that are actually bringing the worst out of a usually very warm and welcoming population. Remember why you are here and not in your own back yard before complaining about your hosts and claiming they can’t be bothered to work fields or lack the intelligence to aspire to higher roles.
This is total garbage and explains a lot more about your own personalities and small-mindedness than it does of those you are trying to put down!
I think you’ll find there are PLENTY of locals doing jobs that even YOU don’t want to do like garbage collection, road sweeping, sanitation……it goes on. Believe it or not there are locals who have “made it” and become great successes too.
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To everyone who is upset by Annie’s comments I apologise on her behalf – not all “locals” think the same way.
I for one am grateful for the effort you have put in to the island and the community, and I hope the “locals” and “non-locals” alike keep their jobs based on their abilities rather than the place of their birth.
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Maybe Jersey Royal will have some cheap spud pickers next year.
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If you want to see what happens when you put locals in charge of finance, have a look at the mess made over the incinerator. Unable to hedge even a simple foreign Exchange risk.
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It is ulikely that many ‘non locals’ if laid off would leave the island. Unemployment rates in Jersey are below almost every country in the world, so it will be easier find a new job in Jersey than elsewhere, and until a new job is found, most will be perfectly entitled to claim parish/states benefits.
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Anne Du Feu and Farmer Trev – I don’t need to say again what’s already been said above – really though – your comments are really not helpful and yes I am a local.
Magnolia Man no.2
“Just less money to extend their houses and buy jaccuzzis” etc…You clearly have no idea what you are talking about – I work in a bank and most people I know that work in finance earn less than other people I am aware of that work in some states departments eg nursing or IT. I earn less than the average Jersey wage,I struggle to pay my mortgage, nursery fees and really have no spare money (or room) to buy a jacuzzi let alone a swimming pool!
22. “Look what happens when you put a local in charge”….Another idiotic and unhelpfull quote. There will have been many people involved in the FX hedge decision and I’d say a fair few of those were not local.
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Keith, if you read any of Anne Du Feu ‘s previous posts you ‘d know exactly what she meant. Interesting that she hasn’t responded to any of her replies.
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Perhaps Annie has realised how insular her opinions are. Perhaps she never left the island and thinks Jersey is the world as a lot of
others do.Who knows perhaps the subject has got a little to cryptic for her.
Anyway sometimes as clearly seen here its better to keep your opinions to yourself!
Rather than open your mouth & prove what everyone was already thinking.
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Keith 18.
I think Annie Le Feu’s comments are generated by a protectionistic attitude rather than a xenophobic nature.
However, your comments bring into play factors and forces which are totally irrelevant, as the job-opportunity scenario in the UK is the direct opposite of that in Jersey.
Skilled UK workers are regularly being excluded from important projects (e.g. constructions for the 2012 Olympics and new power stations) and are not being allowed to compete because multinational companies, that own and operate the facilities, ignore the laws and collective bargaining arrangements that apply in various European countries.
These employers are deliberately exploiting cheap labour.
This is not the case of “non-local” companies in Jersey, who as you put it: provide free accommodation, utilities, rates, subsidised nursery care, etc., for their imported employees.
It was the arrival of more than 200 Italian and Portuguese staff that triggered the strike action at Immingham.
At the time, the unions protested that British workers were being undercut by FOREIGN EMPLOYEES WHO ARE PAID LESS.
The protest at Staythorpe, which targeted the Spanish sub-contractors of the French firm Alstom, was for a “half-and-half” deal for the “skilled” local people who were out of work (at the time the 850 jobs at the site were held by Spanish workers). Other power stations in the area were built by “locals” – so the Know-how and skills were there.
In both cases the demonstrators did not object to foreign workers but to the fact that they should have been given a fair chance to compete for jobs.
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BS DeLuxe 19
I don’t think the comments here are a direct attack on “locals” (and we all know who Annie Le Feu is referring to), but are simply a way of saying “You can’t have it both ways!”
As for some of the “local” population lacking intelligence, well it’s true…but only in the same percentage as the rest of the world.
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All this talk of locals not have the skilled is in my experience – nonsense. I have seen 1st hand less qualified UK staff being brought in purely becuase the CEO’s etc onshore want one of their guys on the ground. We’re had, and contiune to have many terrible hires.
The fact is we have a system where we need some skills (just like Australia, Canada the UK etc) and need the J cat system. The overriding problem is employers fail to undertake proper suscession planning and don’t train staff (those with 5 years included).
In my experiece they don’t do this because they have limited headcount and don’t take on trainee’s, school leavers etc. Sadly the States have to work the way the Banks want as we are totally reliant on them and the income they generate.
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#18, the stance taken at the refinery actually INCLUDED foreigners! They were equally appalled at what was being allowed to happen. These were, of course, foreigners who had made their home in the UK, personally I tend to call such people ‘locals’. It was about intentional, and mass, salary undercutting by bringing in people from abroad who would be housed on a ship!!!! Did anyone offer the existing workers the opportunity to live cheaply by being housed on a ship? I doubt it somehow.
It cannot be one rule for locals (and by locals I simply mean anyone who has made that place their home) and another for people who have no intention of making it their home! The salary should be exactly the same for both and they should all have access to the same residential property.
Nor was this just a UK phenomenon, such feelings would be found in any country on this planet that was suffering from a recession and allowing businesses to keep their work in one place while bringing cheaper workers in from outside.
Wherever the work is it should be carried out by people who live within that country (whatever nationality they may be), and by live there I mean live among the general population, paying the usual taxes (council, national insurance etc). Only THEN do you get a level playing field for all!
It’s odd that so few people could see how unjust the company’s original plan was.
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I’m not belittling the plight of those people who will be affected by these redundancies, but I had to laugh at the obligatory management waffle spouted in the full article in the paper.
Streamlining roles, synergising and amalgamating workflows, maximising profits, reducing losses and squeezing margins. Pardon?
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Leah, I’m no economist, but surely it would be in any government’s interest to ensure jobs go to “local” residents……less unemployment (benefits etc) and more taxes.
Seems a no-brainer to me, but I’m sure the powers that be have their reasons for not stepping in?????
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‘No recession in Jersey’, Senator Terry Le Sueur 11 Nov 2008. Dougie Peedle, the States economic adviser, agreed that there was no indication that Jersey was sliding into recession.
‘We’re going into a depression’, bloke in street, August 2008.
Who’s got a better grasp on rerality?
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well HSBC is the world’s local bank..
sorry I couldn’t help it!
But I have to say there are so many more LOCAL bashers that post on this site – try working in italy, or france or anywhere else other than the UK/Jersey
Oh yeah that’s right
YOU CAN’T!
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Bob Flemming 31.
re: …reducing losses and squeezing margins. Pardon?
It’s “I beg you pardon”, not “Pardon”.
Yet another strange abnormality that’s crept into our language.
A Pardon is the forgiveness of a crime and the penalty associated with it.
Instead, “I beg your pardon”, by today’s standards, usually means: “Sorry, I do not believe I heard you correctly”.
I’m sorry, but I couldn’t resist this mega “Invite” or should I say “Invitation” to bring this “misuse” to your attention
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I meant pardon, not I beg your pardon. Pardon?
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Maybe many of you don’t remember what Jersey used to be like and why tourists used to come here? Many years ago when I was a young girl Jersey was a quiet peaceful place with little traffic. Sadly the states have for years insisted on increasing our population in turn bringing more and more cars in more and more massive ugly housing developments. Jersey is quite obviously full. At lunch time driving down Beaumont hill there was a queue past the cannon, each year the queues get bigger and bigger. Quite simply Jersey is full and the more people here the more the island is spoilt, this is why I said the above.
Obviously we need to bring some people in to do work e.g. doctors, teachers for certain subjects, seasonal workers who I’ve seen working very hard on the farms. But locals should always come first.
Many non locals are probably unaware of the stamps in the back of many locals passports that prevents them being able to live or work in the EU, is this fair?
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I agree BS, I would have thought it was always in a Government’s interest to encourage employment to go to those who already live in the area (and would be entitled to receive benefits if they were out of work) but I can only assume that this isn’t always the case and that we’re missing something.
I feel for the HSBC workers but I can’t imagine this is a great surprise to anyone, still it’s another chance for the idiotic and completely unfounded local bashing that has become commonplace on here. I couldn’t imagine living somewhere that I hated as much as some on here obviously hate Jersey, I’d up and leave I think.
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Bob Fleming 36
Oh really! How confusing! Now I don’t understand who you were asking pardon for…HSBC management or yourself?
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There’s an easy answer to that stamp issue Annie, join the EU. Then you can pay the £50 a week that families in the UK pay to subsidise the common agricultural policy and loose your jurisidiction over fishing rights around Jersey to name but a few of the benefits. Instead Jersey attempts to gain all the benefits of being in the sphere of the EU whilst having few of the downsides. Oh and if you joined the EU, you certainly wouldn’t be able to maintain the apartheid housing system we have here. If you want to stop the immigration from the EU then you need to cut your links fully from the UK.
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Annie trying to get out of the hole you put yourself in……………..
You cannot pick and choose who you want. Jersey takes and takes from these non resident workers and holds hate for those not born on the island. Yet you’re happy to take the perks that the taxes they pay, give to your precious island.
Please take heart (from the mass entrys above) that you are in the minority on your small minded views. Will your island want a person like you as a representative?
I THINK NOT !
Oh, by the way, bet you don’t want the Argos catologue either………………
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#37 Annie – Remembering Jersey when you were young with starry eyes is understandable, however I bet people from all countries could do the same. We have the same problem as everywhere else – our population is rising and ageing as people live longer. The States pension fund will get larger & larger, and with fewer workers here to subsidise it, your idea of a much improved Jersey isn’t an accurate one because the island could run into serious financial difficulties. This is why I’m worried at the States lack of vision with regards to reinvigorating the tourist industry, because the only way we will achieve your dream and have a drastically reduced population, is if the finance industry in Jersey collapses. If this happens we’re all in serious trouble
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Annie Du Feu 37
I remember Jersey in its heyday, when the island was bustling with holidaymakers and the sun shone from April till October (or maybe I just didn’t notice the rain then). The days when quaint little shops lined the streets of town and Sand St was just a street and not a car park. Yes, Jersey was beautiful…and it still is to me.
Town looks a bit “scruffy” now and some of the newer buildings detract from Jersey’s “Island image” (and I won’t even comment on the Waterfront – which is a world of its own) but
the “non-locals” are not to blame!
Bad “management” is the culprit, and has been for years (and the power, for the larger part, has always been in the hands of “locals”).
No-one can deny the island is bursting at the seams, but the less fortunate immigrant workers (who live in bedsits like Carly) have paid the mortgages of many islanders, or have at least contributed towards the Château residences of Jersey’s landlords in the south of France.
Many “non-locals” consider Jersey their home and need their jobs as much as the locals (if not more, because they have no family to fall back on). So live and let live…but don’t, and I repeat “don’t” be apologetic for airing your views…you are entitled to your point of view!
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#37 Annie – Your comment about ‘locals’ not being able to live or work in the EU is a valid one. However, we like our cake and eat it in Jersey don’t we! The only way around this is to join the EU, but the moment we do, our quallies system will be destroyed. The EU hate any form of protectionism, our 5 year job rule and 11 years to get out of a bedsit will go overnight. #42 Beaumont made a good response to your post. Annie, I realise you’re unhappy at the way the island is expanding, but I think you’re like a racehorse wearing blinkers. You need to look at the bigger picture sometimes
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The comments of Annie and those who think the same I find very annoying.
I have been here almost 10 years and work in finance, with no J-Cat. I have come close to unemployment several times over the years and if had done I’d have had to go back to the UK. So if I had gone back, not only losing the years put forward for my quallies which I wouldn’t get, should I also get my states payments (I pay every month, could possibly leave at anytime so don’t see my benefit) and taxes back?
Small minded, and unfortunately only word I can find for it, “racist” people are those that are ruining this island now.
Tourism is gone, it will never be like it was. Families have several cars each these days, that never happened in the past, there are so many reasons for the parts of the island that annoy Annie, but they can’t all be blamed on non locals.
Maybe if all the banks went to a different island, took all their staff, taxes and business and money ploughed into local business, would that make you happy Annie?
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41. Classic……………looks like Julie Du Feu has got you down to a tee Annie………….and I bet she is right re. the Argos Catologue!!!
43. YES Annie does need to apologise for her comments. It is ignorant,arrogant, comments like those, that build hate and resentment.
Annie has what appears to be views of someone who has led a sheltered life with little wordly knowledge/experience. Everywhere is changing and it is people like Aniie that need to realise, that it is not just Jersey that has changed……………………its is almost the whole world over, thats a fact of life – change is inevitable. Jersey has been built with a foreign workforce – and needs that foreign workforce to sustain Jersey’s economy. This foreign workforce given time, then becomes “local” with the same “quallies” as Annie. I for one would think it a great idea for Annie to be given a job at housing, so that she could have her eyes opened to the horror stories(of squalor and extorionate rent) that I am sure housing staff have become numb to – due to the sheer scale of them. And then for Annie to eventually hand out a letter informing a “foreign” worker that they now have the same “quallies” as her – I doubt even Annie could begrudge anyone this right if she was aware of what the “foreign” work force put up with.
Annie, You are in a minority with your views – thank god!!
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Born Warrior, I can’t believe you remembered my rant about the misuse of the word invite. I’m quite proud.
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guys I think the main local vs non local argument is based on the fact non locals don’t intergrate at all – and this leads to locals being afraid of walking through certain areas of town because there are no local people living there, still I do agree with annie that locals can do most of the jobs non locals are taking (i.e. waitressing, working behind the tills in shops)
Jersey is a small island and we do need to let qualified law abiding citizens in rather than letting in everybody – and I’m sure even the non locals (MYSELF INCLUDED!) will agree that some immigrants are not law abiding and they just come over here to get away from the authorities back home.
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Can anyone say hand on heart things are getting better with time? They sure aren’t in Jersey.
People need to face reality the population cannot keep rising. Add on the demographic time bomb of the majority being retired in a few years time and you have a recipe for disaster as far as I am concerned.
Yes capitalism with it wasting of resources is fine and dandy in an infinite system, unfortunately the planet isn’t infinite is it?
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I think that most people living in the islands would in fact agree that the population is too high.
It is also obvious we need immigrant workers. But what I originally wanted to point out is when you have someone who has lived here 4 years and someone 38 years doing the same job the person who has worked there 4 years should stay instead of the 38 year person.
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Whats wrong with Annies views? I’d kick out all non locals tomorrow, regardless if they had work or not.
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Annie, so that the locals gain the qualifications they may require to take on the positions in such as the finance and law industry, they would probably have to go to university in the UK. What if they got turned down for the places at uni if the UK had the same attitude as you ie Channel islanders are not ‘local’ and preference goes to UK students – where would this leave these industries in Jersey?? No qualified Jersey locals to do these jobs?? Do you want to go back to the good old farming and tourism days??
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Bob Fleming 47
How could I forget…you were my very first contact on “This is Jersey” and I’ve always regretted calling you a fuddy-duddy…I didn’t mean it really
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Steph De Gruchy 46
re: YES Annie does need to apologise for her comments. It is ignorant,arrogant, comments like those, that build hate and resentment.
And do you really believe that comments like yours help to eliminate hate and resentment?
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48. I cant believe this latest comment………. “guys I think the main local vs non local argument is based on the fact non locals don’t intergrate at all – and this leads to locals being afraid of walking through certain areas of town because there are no local people living there”…………………….Please please please stop with these silly childish comments, that comment is totally unfounded and if based on your own experience or i’ll even stretch to experience of someone you know- well then that is just that…. one or two individulas experience/opinion – please take something from the numerous(vast majority)reasonable, open minded comments above and disregard the obviously narrow minded comments from lula and Annie Du Feu.
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Rob Roy – very eloquently put, I hear this argument from locals all the time ” you can work in the EU, we can’t” First of all I don’t know why you would want to, you live in one of the most beautiful places on earth. You were born with the privilege of being able to rent or buy anywhere from the off without the 20 year wait I endured.
Quality of life, relative lack of crime, short commute to work and beautiful coastal scenery at every turn are all benefits that I fear some locals take for granted.
Now to the nub, Jersey elected not to be part of the EU for the reasons Rob states, equality, removal of racist policy from the constituution, subsidising other countries. As has already been said, you can’t cherry pick the bits you want (huge revenue from finance, non indiginous market of workers to rent out basement rooms for mortgage covering fees) and dismiss the inevitable burdon they bring to the infrastructure.
As for Born Warrior’s grammatical corrections – the standard of grammar on this site is appalling and this slight misdemeanor is nominal compared to some of the abuses of the language I’ve seen.
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