Call for law to fight knife culture
Friday 4th September 2009, 3:00PM BST.
A NEW law is needed to curb a worrying new knife culture in Jersey, the acting police chief has warned.
David Warcup says knives, some made to look like military-style offensive weapons, are too easily available.
And he urged Islanders not to view a blade as just another ‘fashion accessory’ for a night out on the town.
He spoke out following the release of new figures revealing that there have been 17 incidents involving knives this year.
Mr Warcup said that serious violent attacks in Jersey were becoming increasingly vicious and were leaving many more victims with life-threatening and long-term injuries.
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How many convictions ?
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It’s not the knives that are at fault it’s the ignorant youths that use them. If knives are banned then they will find something else to carry!
A knife is an inanimate object. Anyone carrying one for ‘protection’ or is unable to give a cast-iron reason for having one should be dealt with.
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What are we going to do – wait until someone is murdered first? Anyone who walks outside their door with a knife in their pocket has the intent of using it. We should clamp down on them & lock them up. The big problem though is our justice system. Our courts are so pathetically leniant, they are more likely to name a street after them than send them to prison
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Silly old nanny state,if you really want to stop it make the penalty persuasive, ie: Birch them, what are they doing going out for a social night out with them…obviously fear and the thought of conflict are pre meditated….knowledge of serious consequences ought to do the trick…but you won’t though will you…someone may not like it..oooohhh.
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Have amnesty like Scotland did,it doesnt solve the porb but it gets them off streets also stop n search,with metal detectors police making surprise appearances in shopping areas stopping youths or anyone who they may think needs stopping.etc.
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Lets be rational here, no law will ever stop a person intent on doing harm from possessing a knife. As long as we prepare our own food, all will have access to deadly weapons in our kitchens. Banning pen knives will not stop that. Lets not waste tax payers money on this and instead focus on the social causes of crime, and ask the question: what is wrong with our society that makes people want to kill each other?
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If there is a problem with knife crime in the Island, maybe the Police Crime Analyst – presuming they still have one – will identify those people likely to be carrying knives? The police will thenhopefully step up their stop and search activities, to deter the carrying of knives and catch those carrying offensive weapons.
Then hopefully the Magistrates will have a strong sentencing policy in relation to the carrying of knives in public.
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knife culture as it is termed has existed in the uk for many years now. there have been hundreds of reported incidents of wounding and several deaths each year through the use of knives. there is an age group of 14 to 25 year olds who are the main offenders. taking knives out of circulation would require the banning of sale of such items and an anmesty to encourage owners of such weapons to hand them in to bins at town halls and police stations.
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I think all knives should be banned from the island – dinners could be eaten with purely a spoon and a fork.
Anyone still owning a knife after a certain date should be birched and made to walk through the centre of St Helier with a kipper on their head.
Goodness me you local yokels are clueless.
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What a sorry state of society.
In the 1950s every boy went to school carrying a knife of one type or another ranging from a bijou penknife to an army knife with a big spike for dealing with horses’hooves.
Scouts and suchlike had sheath knives.
As far as I know, and ZBD can perhaps correct me, there was no knife crime and I have no recollection of anyone being threatened with a knife.
They were used for cutting things and, more often, for showing off as a treasured posession with an inherent swap value.
Somewhere along the line things changed. I can’t help thinking that increasing screen violence played a part.
There are shops, especially off the island, which have vast window displays of knives which any fool can see are styled for one purpose – stabbing.
(Thanks in advance for all the knife supporters who will now tell me that I must be the fool to think that anyone would buy them for anything but innocent use)
Of course it would be unthinkable to get in the way of a shopkeeper being allowed to profit from the sale of deadly weapons.
And yes I do know that you can kill with a kitchen knife.
So now let’s hear why films about nasty people with knives are totally harmless – as proved by research carried out by the entertainment industry no doubt.
Go on roll out the arguments …
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Simon Says # 9. “Goodness you locals are clueless.” You may think that your coments are witty, but across the U.K. knife crime has been on the increase and the previous comments are part of a serious debate. I just hope that you are never confronted with someone threatening you with such a weapon, or worse still stabbed. Unless you can come up with some cogent arguement as to why people should be able to carry knives in public, maybe you should keep your comments to yourself as I can’t imagine many will find them funny.
Marcus # 6. What are the so called ‘social causes’ of crimes like this? You can’t always make excuses for criminal behaviour, as the majority of us are subjected to similar social problems throughout our lives. Yet I imagine the majority of people who make submissions on this site, don’t go around carrying knives.
There can be no justification for carrying weapons in public…maybe the answer is indiscipline, combined with poor role models many people have nowadays, with their heores being violent on video games and DVDs. The knife carrying buffoons are just carrying out their fantasies.
There is already a law to prevent people carrying offensive weapons and the police should utilise the powers under current legislation to combat this menace.
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“Simon says” @9: Debating a serious social concern is healthy; your facile comment suggests it isn’t the “local yokels” who are clueless…
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#9 pretty pathetic dig!
How have we got to this stage where so many young people have little respect for themselves, never mind for others? How on earth are people being raised such that they see no real problem with taking a human life? And, if you carry a knife then you do fit into that last category, no matter how much you try and kid yourself that you don’t!
We have so much spouted at us about human rights these day, and it appears we think that human rights is all about freedom. We fail to realise that part of a child’s human right is to be taught right from wrong (through discipline if required) AND to be educated and raised to be a decent human being. Why are we giving everyone all their ‘freedom’ human rights but omitting the ones that help them develop to become emotionally mature adults that can contribute to society?
There are many indicators amongst youth that give an idea as to how much or how little they value human life, maybe we could start picking up on these indicators and get in early.
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Farmer Geddon # 12. Well said mate (I just love that alias – Armageddon) Simon Says # 9, offers little to this serious subject.
R B Bougourd # 10. So far as I recall there is little history of knife crime on the Island. Also I recall as a Sea Cadet in the 1960s carrying a Navy issue pen knife with a marlin spike for splicing rope (not getting stones out of horses hooves) – life seemd so different then.
In those days, we didn’t have so many poor role models and endless films or video games with so much gratuitous violence.(Of course we didn’t even contemplate the idea of video games). Many of the films and video games seem to normalise this sort of behaviour, desensitising people concerning the serious consequences of knife crime.
From mememory, the law provides that if someone has a legitimate and bona fide reason for carrying a pen knife, i.e. it is a tool used for work purposes. All knives can cause damage, but why would you want to carry a lock knife, flick knife or a knife with a blade over 3″ on the street? If consideration is given to new legislation, it should be an amendment to the current law, specifically banning these type of weapons (flick knives are of course already prohibited).
As I discussed in an earlier entry, the police will only succeed if the Centeniers and Courts back them up with robust action.
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Leah Holmes # 14. I totally agree with your comments on Human Rights. We have lost sight of the fact that people have responsibilites that come with those rights. Furthermore amongst the most important rights are: – the right to life and the right to walk the streets without being in fear of being attacked, or indeed without actually being attacked, either physically or verbally.
I seriously believe that the continual exposure to violent DVDs and video games, makes many people think it is normal to behave that way. They have difficulty in spearating fact from fiction
The education system and criminal justice system need to robustly underline that crime and disorder – particularly violent crime and aggression – is not acceptable in our socciety.
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Apologies for my ‘typos’…the swiftness of the hand deceives the eye.
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Contrary to what “Beaumont” says in post number 3,
not everyone who walks outside their door with a knife in their pocket has the intent of “using it”.
I carry a knife every day and use it to prepare food, sharpen pencils, open packages – normal every day tasks like that. I would never use my knife to harm somebody.
The massive majority of assaults with knives are carried out with the kitchen knives, not pen knives.
The JEP featured a picture of a lock knife held in a menacing pose, but the amended law that Mr Warcup wants to introduce will make it a crime for law abiding people in Jersey to carry Leatherman tools, Opinels and some types of Swiss Army Knife. It would become illegal to carry a knife with a locking blade unless you could give good reason for having it. “Because it is a useful tool that I use every day” does not qualify as good reason in the UK and it wouldn’t do here either, if Mr Warcup got his way.
It has been illegal to carry folding lock knives without “good reason” in the UK since 1989. What has it done to prevent knife crime there?
Law abiding citizens are denied a useful and safe tool, while the low-life that carry knives as weapons still carry them because – NEWS FLASH – criminals don’t abide by the law.
Leave the law as it is. It is sensible. People can carry a knife as a tool, but those who use them to intimidate or harm can expect to pay the consequences.
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welcome to texas
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We already have oodles of un policed laws…there is a mindset here that if you legislate against something it some how miraculously goes away,you’ve made it against the law.so people will comply….WRONG…we have too many laws and laws are becoming less noticed,obeyed,and respected as such a proliferation just puts the public into fuzzy overload and the result is the opposite of that required, it is already an offence to carry an offensive weapon.Law draughtsmen make fortunes and then these things just sit, ordinary mortals are imbued with too much power and society declines whilst simultaneously drowning in legislature…simple good old fashioned street police work does the job..remember when the police dog handlers were always on show at the weighbridge,and believe me any copper worth his salt ought to be able to handle drunks without electrocuting them with Tazer stun guns…upping the anti just ups the anti.creates an industry of work in the public sector without helping the public themselves a jot. you already have the tools just do the darn job.
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Steve #17. One would hope that common sense prevails and that the police would use discretion for each individual case. There must be exceptions for individuals who have a ‘reasonable excuse’ to carry a knife, e.g. a fisherman, wood carver etc.
I have a farm and often carry a pen knife, however there are some knives that are only designed for one thing, or offensive weapons ‘per se’ similar to the knife depicted in the news item that started this chain of comments.
I think most of us realise that criminals don’t abide by the rules…that’s not news mate.
If there is a growing problem with people carrying knives, then David Warcup needs to direct his officers to perform more stop and search operations, to deter this sort of behaviour. If people are caught then – as I have said before – the Courts need to take robust action…..but we all knew that didn’t we?
If people have concerns, the police should consider having ‘Police and Communities Together’ (P.A.C.T.) meetings – if they don’t already have them. There needs to be consutation on how the police deal with this perceived problem.
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I always find it rather perplexing that violent crime in Jersey never seems to be that severely punished compared to drug related crime. I realise that drugs can destroy lives, but in order for drug dealers to exist, surely there need to be people who want the drugs in the first place? People don’t ask to be beaten up, stabbed or killed, so why are we so comparatively lenient on the violent perpetrators?
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With reference to ZBD’s post no.20:
“..there are some knives that are only designed for one thing, or offensive weapons ‘per se’ similar to the knife depicted in the news item..”
The knife pictured is not designed for combat and is not an offensive weapon “per se”, although it obviously could be used to cause injury – just like a hammer, a car, a pint glass, a cricket bat, a piece of wood, or a rock.
I choose not to drive a car. I don’t see why people need to drive cars and I call for them to be banned. “You just have to look at them” to see that they could injury or death if used as a weapon.
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This is the current legislation that deals with offensive weapons.
“43 Prohibition on the carrying of offensive weapons without lawful authority or reasonable excuse
(1) Any person who without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof of which shall lie on the person) has with him or her in any public place any offensive weapon, shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years, or to both.
(2) Where any person is convicted of an offence under paragraph (1) the court may make an order for the forfeiture or disposal of any weapon in respect of which the offence was committed.
(3) In this Article “offensive weapon” means any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him or her for such use by him or her.”
That is a sensible law. People can carry a knife as a tool, but those who carry a knife with malicious intent are committing an offence. To change the law will only make law abiding people who carry a knife as a tool into criminals. People like me.
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