Traders fume at mail order deal
Saturday 5th September 2009, 3:00PM BST.
Jersey Post will deliver a copy of the 3 lb 7 oz catalogue to every household in the Island
LOCAL retailers are outraged that the States are delivering a UK online catalogue to every home in Jersey.
Just months after a campaign was launched to encourage Islanders to buy local, thousands of Argos catalogues have made their way to shoppers’ front doors.
The move has sparked fury among local traders who fear that the Argos catalogue, which offers 22,000 products ranging from engagement rings to flat-screen televisions, will poach their business.
But Jersey Post and Economic Development say that the service will transform Islanders’ shopping experience and establish a more competitive market place. Gary Whipp, of Jersey Post, said that the scheme was all about giving Islanders choice.
Over the next few weeks, Jersey Post will deliver a copy of the 3 lb 7 oz catalogue to every household in the Island. Shoppers can order goods by registering at Jersey Post’s online delivery service Ship2me.co.uk.
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I have not used Argos before. Do they Zero Rate the VAT on exports to Jersey?
I had problems with Amazon on that one until some kind person at the JEP got them to make that vital change.
I can understand that some traders who price their goods too high would be upset and not want us to find out about anything that is more affordable.
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What is good for the goose id good for the gander.
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Now listen very carefully States members’-i will say this only once, we don’t need Argos we can alrady shop with them if we want to, we need a new SUPERMARKET!!!! how long will it take for this to sink in.
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Hopefully Jersey Post will get arrangements in place to enable the goods to be purchased without VAT being added.
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Tough luck! I have frequently been made furious by local traders ripping me off wherever they get the chance. I relish the opportunity to buy value goods from a UK retailer. I also relish the fact that many local retailers will need to become realistic with their pricing or pack it in. Boo hoo!
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Excellent the more choice the better. This is known as healthy competition. Local businesses have for too long been able to charge what they want with the captive customer told to take it or leave it. Well now thanks to the internet they can leave it and leave the local businesses to buck up their ideas or go under.
This will achieve three things in one go, getting rid of uncompetitive businesses, the customer getting a better deal and greedy landlords getting less rent so reducing inflationary pressures in the local economy.
Please remember customers have been fuming about over pricing in a VAT free island for years now and no one has bothered to listen. Maybe now more will listen?
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they can fume all they like i looked for a dvd in a large u.k chain the other day it was £16 i went home and paid £8 post free, cant wait to see the argos catalogue!!!
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At long last, the shopper has a bit more choice, well done Jersey Post, a service clearly needed.
Well, at least the local retailers won’t be able to quote shipping adding to the high prices on that old cliché of shipping, yet they complain still.
I wonder where these retailers buy their own goods for home, very rarely in Jersey??
People are voting with their feet, retailers should sit up and listen for what people are asking for, CHEAPER PRICES!
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The contents of the Argos catalogue are targeted at (how shall I put it?) a “certain” market. The “more prosperous” elements of Jersey society would not patronise this company.
But – in the interests of competition and free trade – are other catalogue companies to be invited to compete for our customs as well?
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Message to Jersey traders – your greed is killing your businesses, stop charging outragous prices or lose your livlihood.
In any other place competition is viewed as a good and healthy thing, we’ve been denied access to fair price goods for years until the internet opened up the market. Fair play to Jersey post and an excellent initiaive on their part.
It is simply not acceptable for local retailers to charge more than double the price of internet goods. JEC 46″ TV £1500, Dabs £740, how on earth can this be a fair price, I’m happy to pay a premium and support local business but local retailers are taking the proverbial.
Change or die local businesses.
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I have been living in the UK for ten years now, after spending 50 years in Jersey. I loved Jersey and the people who live there. I was for many years involved in the retail business in St Helier. It is not the ‘greed of the retailer’ that pushes up the prices – it is the cost of rentals and wages. You cannot compare the wages paid for equivalent employment in the UK to that that has to be paid in Jersey. Yes, the prices are cheaper in the UK. but the overheads are much lower. What is happening now is that, with the evolution of the internet, there has become an unbalanced ‘like for like’. Basically, if everybody shops on the internet from Jersey, eventually all retail shops there will fail. Shop workers will lose their employment and ‘greedy landlords’ will lose their supply of easy money!
The moral is … unless there is a level playing field, don’t knock the shopkeepers that are already finding it difficult to keep up with overheads in Jersey.
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I,ve been shopping online for yonks now as its always cheaper and alot more choice. Not that i need a sofa or a bed but the ads on tv at the major stores give em away, why pay over a thousand pounds over here when you can buy over there for a couple of hundred. Competition well needed now we have it to a degree. As for vat, shipping etc it still works out cheaper. I,m not too fussed about the vat as i get a bargain anyway. Magnolia man do i detect a little snobbery on your argos comments?
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Happy shopping everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Chamber of commence will not be too happy as they have been stopping competition here for years with the same old excuse
well tough luck you,ve had your own way for too long
brought in New Look before woolies had even closed lest we got in something we wanted.
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Its not down to the mere argument of just cost.
Wherever you shop in the island there is simply no choice.
Im prepared to pay a little bit extra if the shops could provide me with the choice i require,However i am past the stage where i want to run around looking for an item only to be told no.
Surely nobodys daft enough to pay £1500 for a television which is available for £750 either.
I got wise years ago,and dont have money to throw away to pay for some businessmans
Range Rover,so “fume away” indeed it would be great to have this opportunity embraced by the public with open arms & see Mr & Mrs “smug” robbing us blind get there cumuppence.
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A week ago I decided to buy a set speakers, an mp3 player plus in-ear headphones. I did my research in various shops in Jersey. Then I browsed the internet for the items. All of them were about 20% cheaper over the internet than in the shops in Jersey. Sorry but I couldn’t afford to recycle my pounds in Jersey.
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Bring it on Jersey Post. The ‘greed’ of Jersey is now going to take a severe knock and perhaps, just perhaps retailers will sit up and take notice. You had it too good for too long.
Now a reasonably priced supermarket please!
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#12 Martin Coleman: While you are right that rent and salaries are higher in Jersey, consider the following:
- UK VAT is 15 per cent whereas Jersey GST is 3 per cent
- UK trading companies are taxed at a rate of at least 20 per cent on their profits whereas Jersey trading companies are taxed at a rate of 0 per cent
- UK employer national insurance contributions are 12 per cent whereas Jersey employer social security contributions are 6.5 per cent, and benefits in kind are not subject to social security
- UK maximum personal tax rate is now 50 per cent whereas it is 20 per cent in Jersey
There are disadvantages to companies operating in Jersey and shareholders receiving dividends from Jersey companies, but there are also big advantages that more than outweight them.
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At last, some decent competition – the traders have shot themselves in the foot! I have no sympathy!
Why buy a bed for £1,000 when I can get one just as good from Argos for £400 delivered! Mmmmmmm – traders, you do the maths!
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“Magnolia man do i detect a little snobbery on your argos comments? ”
No. It was irony.
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Most of the comments seem to welcome the competition , but by the time the Ship 2 me costs are added on (sorry did you gullible ones think this was going to be a free or UK delivery rate!!!) the only ones to make a profit will be the States of Jersey with 50% of Jersey Post and GST over the deminimus oh and of course Gary Whipps bonus. While the private retail trade slowly suffocates to death. This is State Sponsored Financial Suicide, Alan Maclean should hang his head in shame for the estateagentspeak he’s used today.
Remember this when you can only buy goods online in Jersey in a few years time and get your milk from TESCO at JERSEY POST delivered at 85p a litre (£3.00 delivery cost for next day £15.00 minimum purchase)
Think this idiocy through please!
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Does that mean I can use the “ship to me” service to buy a new car from the thousands of car dealers which are cheaper than the ones over here?!!!!! brrm brrm !!!
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What about the environmental impact of every household getting this huge printed tome whether they desire one or not? Junk mail on a massive scale endorsed by our government.
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Well said Martin Coleman. But they will need a load of new postmen/women.Perhaps a lifeline for all those middle-management states employees who are about to join the real world.
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nice one , i started collecting from the major uk stores in january 4 local people . was doing alright then it went quiet . i was allowed to put 12 books in parish halls and certain spar shops. i take it big brother in the states liked my idea ? . well folks im still collecting uk/ europe to jersey , mind you i heard about the bridge to france . am i paranoid or are the states out to get me ? maybe i should work 4 the states .. maybe not
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The possiblities are endless…how about Tesco Direct?
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Martin (12) who I have known for many years has the reason correct. Might I suggest that it is maybe the valuation of these properties that perhaps needs questioning. Much of St Helier’s commercial property has been pushed up greatly in value due to our finance industry. It may be the major source of income to the Island but has caused major inflation in all classes of property.
Property is only worth what somebody is either prepared or able to pay. I know many retailers who are struggling with their excessive rents, who if they can no longer afford them, have two possiblities. Move to a cheaper area of town or renegotiate their rent now, not at the end of their leases. Nobody will benefit if there are numerous empty properties in town. One doesn’t have to be too observant to notice how many vacant propeties there are in town now. The property owners have had a very good run with their investments and perhaps now it’s time to view some of that capital gain they have made with their properties as just that. Realise that gain by trying to sell for the suggested valuaion or revise that valuation to a level reflected in a reduced rental. A realistic return on a realistic valuation. It ceases to be an investment if it produces nothing by way of return. The empty property on the roundabout by the tunnel stands testimony to that. It obviously cannot be worth what is being asked.
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Well this truly shows that the states are totally out of control, possibly insane. They tell us all to buy local then encourage this? Sheer madness!
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Mark (24). Yes Jersey Post is a fine promoter of junk mail and yes Argos would appear to be just one more item of junk mail; but then UK traders do this to me all the time.
What I do is to thank the postman and then post the junk mail into my large bin; a two second operation from receipt to dispatch! Could Jersey Post consider making deliveries of junk mail direct to Bellozanne?
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ZBD(27)
You can already buy from tesco direct and also sign up for deal of the day.some good bargains are always on offer.
I have been using it for some time.
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The interests of the 90,000 consumers should take precedence over the owners of the rip-off retailers.
The retail sector in Jersey really needs to rationalise. Sure, some jobs will be lost, but these are mainly low paying jobs, (most of which local people are not interested in).
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No 19.
In addition, business rates in the UK are about 20 times those in Jersey, and security costs in most UK high streets are high. You need to compare total property costs not just rent.
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Comment 22 Remember King St.?
There is no way that goods are not going to be massively cheaper even when delivery is factored in. Supermarket next please.
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There are no morales in business.
All business men / women out there… you dont care about the customer only your profit to pay for your life style. If you remember you are in business hence in competion.
The customer will have a choice what they want to do and not be held to ransom.
Bring it on.
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If I want to shop online I – get this – shop online. Online there are pictures and descriptions of goods for sale and you don’t need catalogues.
I don’t want a hefty Argos catalogue. I don’t want to have to pay the cost of recycling it when I dump it. Jersey post should be required to pay the taxpayer the recycling cost of all the stuff they deliver.
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On items valued at £400 or over ( inc. carriage, insurance and vat), the States will charge 3% gst.Therefore an item costing a little over £300 will incur costs of a little over £100 taking it into the gst bracket, adding another £12 or so to the total.
In a few years’ time when gst is at a comparable rate to vat that will rise to approx £40, and don’t forget vat will soon be back at 17.5%.
What I like about this is, the States are charging tax (gst) on tax(vat), and tax on a delivery charge ( to Ship2me depôt) entirely executed in the UK.
This is based on the vat not being deducted at source which, to be honest, I have usually found not to be the case.
And, as I am a peasant and look at the Argos site online, who do I tell not to deliver me the paper one?
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At last, there is an organisation that has a bit of an idea of what people in the freight / carriage monopoly want.
Good luck, I for one shall certainly be using the service.
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On the same day I ordered (online) a fairly obscure CD from a small shop in Sweden and a DVD from a large media company that has their centre in St Helier. Guess which arrived in two days and which still hadn’t arrived after 3 weeks (despite me offering to walk around the corner to collect it)?
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I have been buying goods on line for some time now
I’m sure rentals on businesses are high here, but come on, you have all had it too good for too long. Fantastic Jersey Post. All we want now, is a New Supermarket, its about time we stoped being ripped off.
Ordinary Man in the Street.
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Bella # 31. Thank you for pointing that out…..I’ll remember that if I move back to the Island. Fortunately I have four Tesco supermarkets, a Sainsbury, two Morrisons, two Lidls (plus one under construction) and two Aldis, and a number of Wilkinsons all within a 25 mile radius.
Come on States Members, allow some competition in to the island, you know you want to.
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The retailers have to start smelling the coffee. If renting commercial property is so expensive, they need to seriously highlight this issue, forcing the States to help out local businesses. However, I feel it’s probably too late. The internet offers choice & prices that shopkeepers cannot compete with. Personally, I don’t give a monkeys about Jersey retailers, when I want something I want it quickly and cheap
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How much did the States aka Jersey Post charge for this distribution or is it (as I hear) a freebie so that they can earn on commissions. If so how many more catalogues are going to arrive, and how do we, as local retailers get our catalogues delivered at no cost as I’d be happy to pay on a sales commission basis?
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Jersey certainly needs some competition.While it may be difficult times for some Jerey shops many of them have been taking the mickey for many years so perhaps they have finally reaped what they have sown.Another supermarket would be brilliant as prices are shocking in Checkers and the Co-Op.
By the way I know Sunday trading is a different subject but I went to Tesco yesterday (Sunday)which I have never done before and it was mobbed-almost like Christmas week!
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Competition, options and on-line shopping are good, BUT what I don’t understand is “Who is paying for the distribution of this catalogue?” The article suggests that somehow the States are paying for it, meaning the taxpayer, and if this is the case it is totally wrong. But if Jersey Post is delivering it, having received the mail to deliver, which is its job, from UK, where Argos have posted the environmentally-unfriendly load of bumph, then that is unavoidable by the States. Which is it?
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I am not surprised that local retailers are up in arms. The hypocritical States of Jersey on one hand are encouraging us to “Think Twice Buy Local”
whilst on the other hand in the form of the 50% States owned Jersey Post are now telling us to BUY UK! We should be supporting our local retailers who are paying Jersey Income Tax and supporting our economy by employing local people.
ANOTHER NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR LOCAL BUSINESSES AND ONCE AGAIN NO JOINED UP THINKING BY THE STATES OF JERSEY
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Fantastic idea – this will encourage greater competition and hopefully lead to lower prices. Why should consumers here have to pay so much more than consumers in the UK? If the local traders weren’t ripping us off in the first place, this would have little impact.
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If certain retailers in Jersey offered goods at the RRP less FULL VAT then people would be more inclined to shop here! Why would anyone pay more for exactly the same item?
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We recently purchased a wardrobe and chest of drawers from a local retailer and out of interest made a comparison with the Argos catalogue. A self assembly wardrobe at Argos of a similar quality although who knows as we were unable to see it before we purchased was £399.00, however assembled was £599.00 and the chest of drawers was £391.49. OK so do the maths, take of the VAT, add on GST and add the delivery charge to ship to me and we still payed less than at Argos. We had free delivery and they took away our old furniture and we had it delivered within two working days of placing the order. Argos are qouting 14 working days for delivery! I am all for fair competition and fair pricing and I don’t like being ripped off, but is this fair that the States can back track on there think twice buy local campaign of a few months ago? how much of our money was spent on that campaign and what subsidies have been payed to Jersey Post to support this Argos campaign? If we want competition why don’t we invite Tesco to take over the Central Market and destroy two hundred years of history and peoples livelyhoods. THINK ABOUT IT!!!
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This is no big deal because people have been using the Net to buy cheaper things for years. If it helps the less well off to save some money then so be it. Why should we pay to keep traders in business when they rip is off in the first place?
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I am in favour of the competition this brings into the island….my points for concern are:
1. The damage this could do to the local retailers – yes they have been ripping us off but noone wants a town full of boarded-up shops, big-name retailers and 99p stores (the way many uk market towns have gone since the recession). Variety makes for a better shopping experience.
2. This is a states run venture, so where do their loyalties lie? A major confliction of interests.
3. The litter/recycling overhead produced by catalogues. Argos release 3 or 4 catalogues a year, I would like the option to opt-out of receiving one. Phone books are one thing, commercial junk mail is another – argos would not send a catalogue to a UK address without any form of contact with the recipient (i.e. former customer).
We shall see how this all factors in after christmas, if anything this has been well timed and marketed.
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Not really worth bothering is it? Most of what Argos sells is pots, pans, kettles, toys etc. Fairly low value stuff which is not that much more expensive in Jersey.
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Jersey post should be applauded for an excellent idea. Like a lot of people in Jersey I am fed up with being overcharged by local retailers for items I know I can buy cheaper over the net. I also find it difficult to cope with the “we do not have it in stock attitute but can order it if you will wait 6 weeks till our next regular order” Only to find that having waited the six weeks they have forgotten to place the order.
So given the choice of having it now or waiting and paying 20% more…….
Lets hope this will sharpen up local retailiers who may even decide to use the system themselves and pass on the benefits!?
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@ Jill #47
RRP? who sets the RRP though? Just because Tesco sell product ‘X’ at doesn’t mean a local independent retailer can even buy it at that price.
I know of one importer who had the agency from a specific branded item, purchased direct from the manufacturer and sold to local retailers at what everybody was a ‘fair’ price. They sold at pretty much what you’d pay in the UK, less tax… then Safeway entered the local market and had the product on the shelf at less than cost from the manufacturer.
Peeple shop with very little regard to the ‘big picture’ of our local economy; selfish, but understandable.
I hear that the signs for the States ‘Buy Local’ campaign were purchased from the UK, and they probably got the cheapest price after going through the States tender process online to the website of a company in the UK!!
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Local retailers want us to support them and pay their high prices, in order to support the local economy.
Well, I too have a personal economy, and if that means buying either online or from UK retailers in order to make my income go further, so be it.
I recently asked a local retailer for a price on some electrical equipment, I was quoted 40% higher than buying from a UK supplier, now I wonder where I bought it from. I still have the 40% sitting in the bank!!
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I wonder how much the catalogue drop is costing Argos and and what profit to jersey post for doing it, this not a level playing field if local companies can not afford to do the same door drop, again though more choice of brands is not a bad thing.
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In times gone by owning one shop would support one family fairly well. To surive in todays market a retailer needs multiple outlets to make good money. As a shopkeeper myself i can confirm staff and rent costs are nearly double in jersey than in a similer sized town in the UK. Retailing is a highly competive buisness and in which low prices attract customers, perhaps the prices in local stores are as low as they can go?
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excellent- cant wait for my catalogue. well done jersey post as last a local firm with some enterprise!
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i say wel done jersey post about time someone thought of the every day person, you have my vote, it is alright for the people who are loaded, but what about the ordinary person, the stuff i have brought online has aways een cheaper then jersey and more variety. you keep it up jersey post, i for one look forward to my argos catalogue, thank you again.
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Retailers Relax and shoppers read the small print….
Retailers you do need to improve but you can do that through good customer service which is sorely lacking in many retail establishments. Actually help the Jersey consumer and take a proactive approach to your customer. Just be helpful that would be a start. This is called competition and yes you will maybe have to examine your business and look for where you can make a difference or a niche market but guess what that is what happens in a competitive business market. This service is an option for jersey consumers it is not the answer for all. Also give your consumers some credit that they do shop around and alot of us use the internet already and have done for years due to poor customer service, lack of choice and cost.
Consumers – I suggest you all actually read the terms and conditions on the Ship2me website and how the system operates. Remember UK retailers are delivering to a UK address for those fans of internet shopping will know that when the retailer delivers to the address that is their commitment covered and damage needs to be inspected at point of delivery.
The packaging may be fine but the product may be defective who is going to accept the blame as a third party has been introduced?
Delivery charges are paid to the UK supplier plus ship 2 me charges plus insurance which might just tip you over the £500 GST threshold so you have that put on top as well.Also if you want to return the goods you will be charged by this new service 80% of the cost unless an argos product.
SoJ – good initiative to introduce more choice but as a cynic I also think the delivery charges plus insurance neatly tip us into gst thresholds and it is a creative way of getting more gst collection and a big brother initiative on happy internet shoppers in jersey.
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Much as I love looking through the laminated book of dreams I rarely shopped there (and I did have one on my doorstep for years). There are many outlets that I miss since living in Jersey but Argos is not one of them, and it’s rarely the cheapest anyway.
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Been doing this for years, you dont need ship2me.
I use Bowman haulage, they have a depot in Portsmouth. Get sofa or whatever delivered free there by “insert name of company that will only deliver to UK” Bowman bring it across and drop it to your house. For a charge of course. If your item is over 400 quid then you can pay the GST online. Job done.
And no I dont work for them or have any interests in the business. They are a local firm who have been doing this long before JerseyPost ever thought about it.
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Who decided on Argos? Are we all expected to shop on-line with Argos like sheep. There are plenty of other online shops and less expensive.
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Why can’t Jersey retailers use the internet to their own advantage too after all it holds a global audience and so potential for trade is immense?
Surely a business needs to expand or offer new ideas to capture the attention of would-be customers.
I for one would love a local supermarket to have online shopping, payment and delivery of groceries to save me the bother of a “monthly shop”!
Retailers please stop thinking we owe you a living and get out there and earn it!
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You can’t buy fruit and veg from Argos…sadly but the heart of price problems here is and always has been..LANDLORDS my hat is off to anyone in retail trying to make it pay….the landlords are the culprits let’s get it clear…then the other outrage is taxpayers money being spent advertising expensively to “Think twice buy local” the banners for which were ordered from the U.K. and were such poor quality they were hanging in tatters on the avenue the same day as they were put up…all these schemes are created by unaccountable faceless people who then use taxpayers money to set up this Argos thing….when a commercial rent tribunal should really be looked into…44Million££ trade boost..? build some affordable retail units for trades/sales/services to work from and help small local buisnesss which after all not only employ people but contribute to the overall economy, but they wont listen to this as they are only interested in the yuppies.
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Local retailers aren’t ripping us off. They have to pay shipping and transport charges with GST on top of shipping costs and reduced profit margins. They can’t compete with this unfair GST levy on top of their added shipping costs.If it is raised to a predicted 6%, there will be more of a divide between buying cheaper goods on the internet at under £400 where there is no tax, versus a stupid and unfair levy of GST on shipping charges added to the cost of goods imported.
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Everyone is banging on about argos here…either saying its rubbish or a god send…remember folks you can buy anything from any uk retailer!!!…hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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dear oh dear jersey mentality!
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I think that the Government just has not thought this through at all- one minute they are trying to encourage us all to buy locally, then the next minute they are encouraging us to buy off the island, having the items shipped to us- WHERE DO THEY STAND ON THIS ?
I cannot understand their logic at all, i think they are going insane . I have been saying this for years, but there really is no joined up thinking going on in there, and we are all paying the price for it
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er, internet anyone? surely it makes sense to shop around for big purchases? rather than being ripped off in a massive mark-up cartel?
as for think twice, buy local – i assume this to mean buy locally produced things over imports. like veg and meat.
oh, but the abbatoir isn’t open long enough to grow the market!
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@ truthseeker # 63
“…You can’t buy fruit and veg from Argos…sadly…”
Are you saying that fruit & veg cost too much in Jersey?
Funny that, because there’s a market full of the stuff in Town, and the rents those businesses pay, to the States, are well below the ‘market rate’*; so your argument that high rents are responsible for these high prices just doesn’t work??
Shame, would’ve been convenient to have just blamed those ‘evil’ landlords, now you have to face reality
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The best news I’ve heard for ages the sooner the better, But I think they should ban all states members useing it as they are all overpaid and have plenty time to shop and travel and buy what they want or need with all there tax and perks they get
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Now heres a good idea – whilst those of you who want to shop online do so, how about supporting your favourite charity, Jersey or otherwise?
It costs you nothing, you just log on to the website first and then visit your retailers website. And as an added inducement, you can get special offers and discounts from time to time.
http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk
Happy shopping
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Would Mc Lean like it if we went through uk estate agents to buy and sell local property and put him out of business?
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I really don’t know what all the fuss is about I have been ordering from Argos for years and they have been posting it over.
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Re Magnolia Man’s comment: ‘The contents of the Argos catalogue are targeted at (how shall I put it?) a “certain” market. The “more prosperous” elements of Jersey society would not patronise this company.’
This is not ‘irony’ (as Magnolia Man later back-tracks), but ill-informed snobbery. Argos sells a massive range of products including many that you would find in the UK high streets and department stores. They are not always the cheapest, and their stores are not always the most pleasant environments, but you do get the convenience of a ‘one stop shop’ for many useful things. If Magnolia Man finds Argos is not in his social league, perhaps he could try JohnLewis.com which charges no postage for delivery to Jersey, and removes the VAT if you ask them to.
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72 Mick
Well said – it made me chuckle!
Seriously though – if anyone has looked on the Ship2me website they will note that the delivery charges are extortionate anyway – so I for one will be returning the Argos catalogue from whence it came to the nearest post box!
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Whilst I think this is great, there is one advantage and reason why Argos can offer lower prices via the internet: they have cheaper staff who enjoy a cheaper cost of living (as well as massive market access and economies of scale). Staff costs locally are notably higher than in UK.
Jersey can’t compete with that, so whilst many are saying on here that local players must compete it means they’ll have to, ultimately, move their operation to the UK so they can access the same market and benefit from same economies. This is beyond almost every local outfit.
The consequences are we end up with local players being branches of global chains (a result of globalisation and capitalism) and lose that “local feel”.
Many adverse consequences to this, but basically, taken to extremes, we could view Jersey as a sanitised place for the wealthy to play in, with a few poor people to do their chores, and all their shopping (and your shopping) done on line.
Granted this an extreme picture, but it’s not too far removed from reality …
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My Argos Catalogue arrived today…. can’t wait to have a good flick through!
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Now now mr lamborrari,what I said as you know fine well is “you can’t buy fruit and veg from Argos sadly” go look at fruit and veg prices in marx and sparx and you’ll get the picture..or in fact any big store,the point is as everyone knows the Landlords are killing retail….and so a rent tribunal for the commercial sector would be very welcom..ask any struggling retailer who has to watch the big Nationals set upo next door …they can as a tax excercise…surely you are aware of all this and don’t need me to spell it out…?
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mick I don’t think he would mind as it is after all fair competition and he always has his Senatorial post to fall back on.
As per the Argos catelogue if anyone doesn’t want it just write RETURN TO SENDER on it and jam it in the nearest post box. Unsolicited mail should always be sent back to the sender to discourage them from sending more.
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Mick 72 and Jersey Taxpayer 75.
This is exactly the point that all the ‘it’s competition’ and ‘ prices will come down’ platitudes on this comments list are easily rubbished if you actually look at the Argos prices and add GST where needed and shipping through an expensive option like ship2me in most cases .
But the absolute truth is :How would Senator Maclean like it if Jersey Property Holdings (a wholly owned States of Jersey Business (but independent (somehow?) stood outside Jersey estate agent shops giving out 50% less than you are being quoted vouchers from Foxtons (a UK estate agents) or similar, because they were being paid to do so and ‘they believed in a free and competitive market’.
This is duplicitous claptrap ,the only issue is how can more money be made for the profligate States by any means irrespective of the consequences.
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This is hardly a new phenomenon; I have been buying beds etc from catalogues for years that deliver within 10 days (local 6 weeks) for years; argos is just another,albeit cheaper quality franchise. so whats the big fuss. However, I would still rather put my money in a local shop if the delivery was quicker.
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As on the mainland, where we live,the retailers will end up being the showrooms for Argos,etc. Pumped for information , giving out brochures but not getting the sale to cover their expenses like government taxes. Distributing a catalogue is a lot cheaper than rent & rates on a retail premises, but no doubt the powers that be in Jersey,as here, will call that fair competition. After 11 yearly visits to the Island we now have lost interest and feel ,if not unwelcome then at least not welcomed. Perhaps,also, ‘the powers that be’ should change the name of your beautiful Island to DANDARALAND.
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I’m amused by ‘Beaumonts’ comments in as much that he does’nt care about retailers – I hope he’s happy to pay the return fares to the mainland so that he can view his prospective purchase prior to buying on the ‘Net’ when all the retail outlets on the bIsland have closed down. What overheads does he have to earn his income – probably just travel to work ? Yes i’m a retailer , but on the mainland. Last Christmas a survey in the press said 49% of shoppers USED the high street as their showroom but bought on the net – thanks a lot !
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We do love to have our cake and eat it, for the record, I am local, but i have just been reading on the HSBC thread about give jobs to locals first etc etc, and yet on here we are happy to embrace competition as it willgive us cheaper goods and surely you should be able to choose the best products for the best price, ok so why shouldn’t employers choose the best employee for the position rather than have to show favouratism to local people?
I believe we should be able to shop anywhere and in this modern world have it delivered most other prosperous countries do, but I also believe that we cannot blindly expect us “Jersey” people to be given all of the breaks!
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I have just registered with ship2me.co.uk and their prices are ridiculous! dont get me wrong if your buying LARGE items the price for the item you wish to purchase may be cheap enough that you dont mind paying the £100 (per item!) charge. however, fear not! I will be continuing to buy local !!
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#56 Matt: not sure whether you’ve read post #19 but I’d be interested to know what you think, as a shopowner.
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I noticed a few people questioning the VAT issue.
You have to pay the VAT when purchasing but it is claimed back and returned to you a few days later.
I think this is a good move, at least it gives people the freedom to choice where to shop. Nothing wrong with some healty competition for local shop owners…
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Nice move Jersey Post – Whats going to happen to our tax rates when local business’s go bust and no longer pay any tax into the islands coffers???
Small stuff I buy on the net – Large items like a TV hmmm – having seen how the parcel companies treat stuff coming onto the island i’m not so sure – Buying local and some negoiating on price may be in order.
OH BTW i’m on hols in the UK at the moment – comapared the price of toilet roll at tesco with checkers – not as much different as everyone thinks less than 10%
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Stop moaning folks. If you don’t want the catalogue visit the Jerseypost website. They tell you quite clearly how to get off mail shots from both the UK and local – though rather expectedly they make it more awkward for local.
If you want to shop online, do so. But why use the likes of Argos through ship2me? You can already buy from Amazon, John Lewis etc etc who stock pretty much all the stock but take off the VAT and arrange free delivery.
I really don’t see what the fuss is all about. People who already shop online will continue to do so. Some who don’t currently will convert. Others will not.
However, the best outcome of this will be that it has quite clearly put the wind up the local retailers. Result should, if they have sense, reduced prices and increased service.
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#87 Nathan: Under Zero/ten, local businesses don’t pay tax anyway. I know what you mean though…
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I’ve been shopping for large plastic storage container approx 100ltrs size………Our larger DIY/builder providers and yes that includes the local ones were approx £25 for the conatiner I wanted. Its just a plastic container – not gold trimmed or specially reinforced or anything like that. So I took the details from the label and hey presto………On the internet I can get 3 of them for the same price as that one…… go on justify that price difference- who needs Argos – but Yes it is still very welcome, to have and casulaly flick through to find those items that we no longer have to buy locally.
Jersey retailers shoot themselvse in the foot with the extorinate prices they charge. We are getting our eye balls ripped out for everything, from housing to “plastic storage containers” – people are not stupid(well mostly not) and will find cheaper alternatives now it has been highlighted more openly and with regular occurance that we are getting ripped off!!! And I am delighted that it is getting this attention, as it is just greed greed greed.
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#74 jersey Taxpayer
“so I for one will be returning the Argos catalogue from whence it came to the nearest post box!”
Good idea, along with all other junk mails they keep put through the door!
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Nathan. Even with negotiation I can still buy cheaper on line.
I recently bought a new camera lens. Having priced it on the net I decided to see if any local shops could match the price. Of the 5 shops I tried, only 3 stocked the lens I wanted, one said they would try and order it but it could take upto 3 weeks, the other wasn’t prepared to even try.
Of the 3 shops that stocked the item, 2 were not prepared to lower their prise, one ( a UK company) were, however even by knocking £25 off, I was still able to get the lens online £120 cheaper.
I saved £120 on just 1 item, which arrived in 3 days with full gaurantee, VAT knocked off and only a small charge for shipping.
It’s not just shopping either. I recently flew 2 decorators over from the UK and put them up in a guesthouse for a week to do some work on my house. Flights, accomodation and labour came in at almost £1000 cheaper than hiring a local firm.
Until local companies reduce their prices significantly, I will contiue spending my money elsewhere, and if I am criticesd for that, that’s OK. I have £1100 burning a hole in my back pocket that will more than make up for it!
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Why is everyone so fixated on Argos. This service can be used for any retailers in the UK. For example when my wife asked in M&S if a coat in a different colour could be ordered she was told “no” we don’t do orders for that brand. She went home ordered it from M&S in the UK using Ship2me. Job done. Not always about cost but helpfulness aswell and I feel a lot of retailers in Jersey have taken the consumer for granted. Attitude of “well where else are you going to go”. Freedom of choice is a right, if you want to buy local so be it and I do but why would you if the choice is greater and more often cheaper elsewhere. Even before Ship2me we have had furniture etc delivered to a local shipping co. in the south of UK for transport to the Island. Cost, choice and more often than not much quicker than the many weeks you have to wait for furniture bought locally.
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Jersey is its own worst enemy so to speak
and has preverbably shot itself in the foot due to its “overwhelming greed”.
Remember the good book & its story of those that worshipped the golden calf?
There are a few golden calf worshipers over here.
Let us pray that Jersey dosent share the same fate
as those greedy heathens & perhaps stop worshipping golden calfs or any other for that matter.
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If you don’t want the Argos Catalogue put it back in the post box “Return to Sender”, Jersey Post will soon get the message when the Postmen start complaining…
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Traders are upset about brochure delivery! LOL!
What century our they living in! The internet is in most islanders homes already and it is much easier to purchase items online.
I expect they will start asking the States to ban access to particular websites soon!
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In ref to Micheal Neal’s 19 post, theres not alot of difference between 3% GST and 15% VAt on a retailers profit margins. A local retailer can’t offset the GST on thier stock unlike the Vat system in the UK. So based on an average mark-up of 50%, jerseys gst(3%) is equal to a VAT of 10%
As an employer I’d prefere to pay 12% social on a hourly wage of £5 compared to 6% on £10.
As far a income tax for companys go, like most shopkeepers I have to draw all the money I earn so get taxed at 20%
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#97:
I don’t understand your calculation in the first paragraph. If by ‘stock’ you mean ‘purchases’, VAT and GST are identical in that a trader’s input and output taxes can be netted off. The fact is that if local traders charge the same as their UK counterpart for a product, the local traders are taking an additional 12 per cent as profit.
As I’ve said, average wages in Jersey are higher than the UK but as far as I am aware they are nowhere near double.
My point about the 20 per cent tax rate is that anyone earning above a certain threshold in the UK pays tax at 40 per cent and, if their profits are very high, 50 per cent.
Would you like to comment on the lack of corporation tax in Jersey?
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